By David Wilcock 

Original Show Date: 7/17/99

Published 10/17/99


[3/15/09: Ironically, this was my first radio show, and also proved to be the most difficult show I have ever done. I respect Laura Lee’s work, and at the time I was really into her website. What happened, though, was that I was getting buried in different topics she was throwing at me, and didn’t feel like I had enough time to say everything I wanted to say on each one. 

Certainly, she seemed to have a VERY strong bias against the idea of transmuting the physical body. Unfortunately much of what we were arguing over was semantic in nature, and she did seem to take pleasure in hammering at me.  

With the benefit of hindsight and experience, I would not be so intimidated on any show, and I’ve gotten a lot better at saying what needs to be said in fewer words. Nonetheless, this is a fairly amazing performance for my maiden voyage on the radio, a mere five months after launching my own website!]


[NOTE: This would have been transcribed immediately after the show, but the archive was corrupted for a very long period of time, and David failed to make his own recording while the show was in progress. (He’ll never make that mistake again!)

Quite surprisingly, David randomly checked the Audio Archive section of and discovered that the problem had been fixed. And thus, as fast as possible, we have rushed this transcript out to you — the reader — to see how David handled himself while his theories were “under fire.”

It adds more than a little “action” to what might appear to be a very “heady” set of theories!

Also note that David’s psychic data is shown to confirm Kennedy’s death and tie it into the doings of “the best guys” sent out from a “cabal,” or secret organization, responsible for “eliminating these problems,” while the media was still trying to foster hopes in the public that they had somehow survived the crash.

This was an unprecedented and magnificently well-timed opportunity for David to release time-sensitive future prophecy data, well before any of the official “conspiracy” theories came into bloom, or anyone even knew that he was dead.]



L: And hello there, I’m Laura Lee. Thanks for joining us this Saturday night. Sad news about John F. Kennedy Jr., and his wife and sister-in-law lost at sea. I hope that they are found, I hope that are sitting somewhere on some island, or on some piece of raft, just waiting for their rescue.

Looks pretty doubtful, but if they are saying on the media that miracles can still happen… Think of the Bessette family too — they are losing two daughters, not just one son like the Kennedy clan.

We will be talking later tonight with Gregg Braden, who says that the Shroud of Turin has undergone some detailed scientific analysis way back in the 1970’s. You may not have heard all of the findings — I don’t know why they were not more widely reported.

Gregg has been in touch with some of the scientists who performed some of those original experiments. He says that they are getting kind of older now, so we want to talk with them before many more of them passed away or such. He wants to tell us about some of the findings.

There is a lot of controversy surrounding the Shroud of Turin. Gregg is quite interested in this artifact, but he says that there have been tests performed indicating that the image was made of human blood, not pigment and oil — so it wasn’t a painting, it wasn’t a photograph. We will look at that, and what he thinks it means — we are willing to look at all interesting ideas here.

Gregg also recently returned from Tibet. He located, he says, one of many libraries that are rumored to contain some very old documents from the first through fourth centuries — original Christian documents in their more pristine states, and they haven’t gone through various translations and changes.

He was delighted to at least find one, and talk to the abbots at some of these monasteries, and get some new insights into our lost legacy. So we will talk about that later tonight.

We have a couple of hours for some open phone discussion after that too – just hearing from you, what you are doing. I know that so many people are doing such fascinating research. I just love to open up the phones and hear about it, and hear your thoughts about what is going on.

It is a bypass, isn’t it? July 1999. This was also a big date for Nostradamus followers, but so far nothing much has happened. So we have but a mere four, five or six months away until the big millennium!

You know, so much has been said on Ascension. It seems that Ascension, and various thoughts on that, has been woven into so much of the research that we have been following. It is not that we have been following Ascension, it is just that it comes winding its way in from so many fronts.

[It surrounds] this idea that we are undergoing some sort of frequency shift, that this shift happens every once in a while. That’s a Gregg Braden idea that he has been talking about for some years. Many other people have been talking about this [as well.]

I heard years ago people talking about Bruce Cathie’s work on an Earth Grid and how a different geometric pattern is happening. Even geologists say that there is some shape going on in the center of the earth, and this that and the other. We have followed the work of Nikola Tesla, looking at resonant frequencies. [We have seen] sacred geometry with Robert Lawlor and others [as well.]

So, a lot of these ideas are coming together, and a picture is emerging of the end of a grand cycle, and a frequency shift of some sort. [There is] the idea that we are aligning with this new frequency, or we get recycled away. I don’t know, it sounds rather drastic. And, by aligning with this frequency shift, you are supposed to become a light body.

I guess I have a couple of problems with that idea, although our first guest tonight, David Wilcock, will argue for Ascension, he says, from many levels.

[He will argue] from physics, modern physics, from sacred geometry and mathematics. He will argue that the dimensions are outlaid in a series of eight — octaves, a level of octaves. He will argue from ancient texts. He will argue from many other points of view for Ascension. I think this is interesting, because I want to hear what this is all about.

Personally, on an only personal level, just so that you know where I am coming from, I think, “Why do we need our physical bodies to become light bodies?”

We are already eternal, and we were blessed with eternal souls. If God, and the Goddess, deems it that we have limited lifetimes, in terms of a number of years, where we take on an identity, live it out and go on to the next identity, probably not just here on Earth but all over the universe, all over other dimensions, then I think that is a fine plan.

After all, why do we need to hang around on Earth with the same name and identity forever? Eternity is a very long time and this is a very big universe.

So, I am kind of happy with the way things are. I guess I am just not too attached. But, I want to hear from the Ascensionists, and hear where these ideas come from, how old are they and how far can they be traced back?

I know that Jay Weidner and Vincent Bridges were trying last week to trace this back to some very ancient texts, but my question was, “Well, how do you know that this is what they meant? How do you know that it is not just our overlay on these words, on these ideas? Is this just a New Age idea?”

[You even] see it in movies, where characters will, (I saw this in a Star Trek Voyager episode.) In the lifetime of one of the characters, it was that she had to turn into light, explained by raising her vibration – and off she went! I guess it was a good exit for a character that was no longer going to be on the series. It made a great story.

I have seen other science fiction stories where this Ascension process was something very beautiful, very natural, something that was there in the game plan for a certain species at this certain time and place. And there are those who are arguing that this is humanity’s time and place for this.

I find it an intriguing idea, but it is not something that I am really willing to believe. It’s like, “Show me the proof.” It’s a lovely idea, but it is meant to be taken literally? Is this a real thing, that you expect your physical body to turn to Light?

After all, though, I don’t even think of the physical as being, oh, so physical, more just our senses telling us that it is physical, because quantum physics and modern physics tells us that it is all Lightwaves anyway. So how physical is physical in the first place, I ask you?

Or, are some of these ideas about Ascension and Light always metaphors for the spiritual, for that light within, for that higher consciousness that is not just a metaphor? So, you decide as we hear from David Wilcock.

L: Hi, Dave, and you join us from Virginia Beach, right?

D: Yes, that’s right.

L: Home of all the Edgar Cayce folks.

D: Yes, we have the ARE here, which has one of the largest metaphysical libraries in the world.

L: Well, it is a good research base for you to draw on, isn’t it? A good place to do some research.

D: Oh, sure! That is where I read a lot about my Bruce Cathie stuff. And the Beach is wonderful – you know the Cayce readings said that all the gold in the sand is supposed to be rejuvenating.

L: Oh, so you roll around in the sand on a regular basis. That is a good idea!

D: Well, it’s a nice fringe benefit, you know?

L: (Laughs)

D: My readings are the ones who told me that I had to come here, and I do enjoy it.

L: Tell us a little bit about your background. You are not part of the ARE, which is the Association for Research and Enlightenment, the Edgar Cayce Foundation.

D: That is correct. I mean, we have sort of liaised with each other, but there is no direct affiliation.

L: Okay. And what is the title of your book?

D: The title of the book is Convergence: 1999 and Beyond,

L: Okay.

D: And it is published freely on my website, which is

L: So not in book form, just on your website.

D: Yeah, it has been my dharma to release this material without getting paid for it.

L: Well, that’s a wonderful thing to do!

D: (Laughs)

L: So you are arguing for Ascension on a number of levels, but first we want to know about you. You have an interesting career — you do dream readings for people, where you do the dreaming rather than having someone come to you?

D: That’s correct.

L: Just explain that. You also say that you have been picking up a lot about the disappearance of John F. Kennedy Jr.

D: Okay.

L: Tell us that story first.

D: Well, let’s see if we can find a good place to begin, so we can kind of tie this together.

L: I don’t mind a loose end or two.

D: Okay. Basically the latest — there were two timeline events in the past that I seemed to get a cluster of dreams around, and that was the death of Princess Di and the Heaven’s Gate mass suicide.

Now for some reason, these disasters seem to hold an energetic charge on them, and they are visible in the collective consciousness before they actually manifest.

L: Mm hm.

D: Now in the case of Princess Di, I had fifteen dreams and sentence fragments in my readings that had all pointed towards a famous political figure, who had helped starving Oriental children, who was going to be assassinated. And it actually said that the party who would do the assassination [had a] last name that started with a W.

L: So you’re part of the group who think the Windsors did her in.

D: I don’t know what group I’m in, I’m just telling you what my data was.

L: Okay.

D: You know, I don’t think that there is enough of a case to really make a decision [as to] whether that happened. I know that a lot of people have certainly created controversy about that.

L: Right.

D: It was quite a shock after it happened, and we saw Mother Theresa so soon afterwards, and all of this was happening right during a solar eclipse!

L: Oh, boy!

D: And, there was also the explosion of the shuttle Challenger that happened around an eclipse. The eclipses are associated with the fall of kings in history, such as in the case of Julius Caesar.

L: Oh!

[Note: Actually this was a factual error on David’s part. The Challenger explosion was connected with the approach of Halley’s Comet to the Earth – and during the time of Princess Diana’s death, we were being visited by Comet Hale-Bopp.]

D: And now, we have an eclipse coming up very shortly, and John F. Kennedy Jr. has possibly left us. We don’t know whether he has deceased or not, and I certainly am praying for him and I encourage the audience to do so too.

L: Yep.

D: My dreams are recorded on a daily basis. Every morning I usually get two or three of them, and I dictate them in as much detail as I can. Over the last week, I have just been scrambling furiously to transcribe everything.

I had two 90-minute tapes that I had to get done before I was on the air tonight. I am just going to share with you a few of the brief fragments that I got, which seemed to point towards some sort of possible connection here.

L: Oh, and a quick question! When is the next eclipse? How far away is it?

D: Okay. The big eclipse that everybody has been talking about and is so exciting is a Grand Cross astrological configuration, combined with an eclipse, which is going to be occurring on this August 11th. A lot of people have been seeing the 11:11 numbers on the clock.

L: I heard about that, yeah.

D: It just so happens that this eclipse is going to be making its corona directly over Cornwall, England, which is the site of all the Grail legends of King Arthur and so forth, at precisely 11:11 a.m.!

L: Oh, boy!

D: So, there is some real heavy stuff going on here. In Revelations Chapter 11, Verse 11, it says,

“After the three and a half days, the righteous people who had been struck down by the masses rose up, and struck fear into the hearts of many. God appeared on a cloud and said, “Come up here,” and they were borne into the heavens. And in that same hour, earthquakes shook the earth.”


L: I have got to stop you, because we have to take a break. But, I just read an interesting statistic, that 25 percent of Americans believe that the millennium will bring the end of the world as we know it. Are you in that group? I am certainly not.

D: Absolutely not.

L: Okay. I’m not either, I just wanted to…

D: I am very excited about the millennium, actually.

L: (Laughs) And you see a lot of positive things.

D: Yes.

L: And that is what I focus on – it is what we make of it.

D: It is not about doom, you know, that is what we are going to be talking about tonight.

L: It is about transformation. Yes, I will agree with you on that. It is about transformation. Let’s hear more about your dreams when we come back with David Wilcock. By the way, we do have a link to his website at our own, on

Go to our upcoming page. We also have our chatroom gathering, so if you would like a second conversation going on in text as you listen to our show tonight, log on our website for that as well. I am Laura Lee.




L: Laura Lee here, on the Laura Lee show. By the way, our board-op Carson just got back from a Bigfoot sighting outing, and he is going to tell us about it at midnight Pacific time. So, we will hear from Carson later tonight about his adventures.

And boy, he was really [surprising] me during the break with conversations he had with rangers about negative vortexes up in the woods and all sorts of things. It is amazing what you can learn from a ranger out in the woods.

Oh, don’t forget Gregg Braden coming up in about an hour and a half from now. David Wilcock joins us, and he is documenting or gathering various evidence and arguments for Ascension. We will find out what he means about that term, what he thinks the future holds for us and why, and what evidence he draws upon.

But first, we are finding out about Dave as a person. He lives in Virginia Beach, Virginia, and he is a dream reader. Tell us how that works, and then you were saying that with the death of Princess Diana, with the disappearance today of John Kennedy Jr. and his wife Carolyn, also with Mother Theresa passing away — and what was the other one that you were mentioned – oh, Heaven’s Gate.

You say that all of these events have kind of a vibration in the collective psyche, and people have been picking these up through dreams — and you certainly have been doing that. You were going to share with us some of the indications. I found that interesting, especially in light of the events of the day.

D: Right. Let’s just go ahead and I’ll read off the list of what information I have gathered, and I will tell you whether it is a dream or a reading. I had a few fragments of readings.

L: And I am sure that people will also pick this up and go, “Oh, yeah.” Because I think that what one person is picking up in the collective psyche is there for anyone to pick up.

D: Yes.

L: So go ahead.

D: The first dream that I had was last Monday. It started in a body of water. What happened was that there was an elaborate casket that my brother was dressing up. A famous person had died, and my brother was making this casket very, very elaborate.

And, there was sort of a dark energy to it, and I think that now in context, that has to do with the media’s treatment. [It is] the same thing with Diana, about how she was being chased by these paparazzi, and that is what caused her demise in the first place. And then, we had the publicity only get more intense.

L: How does that relate to today, though?

D: Well, I think that the fact that the casket’s elaborateness had sort of a dark edge on it has to do with the fact that the media will probably run with this for several weeks, if it does turn out that he is deceased.

L: I rather found it touching that the media, the major news channels, devoted so much time to talking about John Kennedy. I thought it was an honor to celebrate him.

D: I agree.

L: And it was done very respectfully.

D: You know, I always just try to speculate on why I get certain pieces of data.

L: Okay.

D: I just hope it doesn’t become overkill, that’s all. So, I was in my room in my dream, after this famous person had died with the casket. I was up in my closet, and then I saw all these children’s toys.

That is when it hit me that the person was dead, and I started crying. And so, I think that has to do with being John F. Kennedy’s child, and all the pictures of him from when he was three years old.

L: Mm hm.

D: The next dream had to do with, again it started in a body of water, and people were looking for artifacts in the water. This was on, I’m sorry, that was Sunday morning.

And then, I was outside in front of my old house where I grew up, and I saw a jet doing some very elaborate maneuvers in the sky that seemed to defy the laws of physics completely, and that were very dangerous. And then, the jet released several small models all over the ground of small planes that were wooden.

Children were trying to take these planes, and take all these pieces that had come out of the jet. And then, the government notified them that they were the property of the government and the children couldn’t take them.

L: Hmm. So in other words, the search and rescue, and a small plane.

D: Yeah. Now, you have got to understand that I have just gotten done transcribing this about a half-hour ago, so it is all pretty new to me still. I haven’t written an article about it yet.

L: Transcribing what? Did you record your dreams? How did you record your dreams?

D: I have a tape machine that I use next to my bed. I have mounted a microphone on the wall, and I record everything that I remember. And I do it every morning. I have been doing it for eight years now.

L: Hmm. Interesting.

D: So, the next one was a reading. The first two dreams actually happened the Saturday and Sunday of last week, so I was a little bit off on there. The next reading was on a Monday, this last Monday, and I will read the sentence to you exactly as it came in. It said,

“The cabal still insists on sending out its best guys to handle these problems. In the rush of the news items, we can fail to see the news hour and refresh our thirst for the bizarre.”


So, that is kind of an interesting sentence. The rush of news items, failing to see the news hour and refresh our thirst for the bizarre. And there are a lot of bizarre things about this. For example, that Chappaquiddick incident that everyone has been talking about, where I believe that it was Ted Kennedy who ran his car off the road and his acquaintance died, was exactly thirty years, down to the weekend, [before this event!]

There is a whole science of cyclology, or cycle-ology, that we are going to be getting into. [This science shows] how certain harmonic frequency numbers, such as the number 30, seem to govern the passage of events in linear time, such that when you have the same cycle repeat itself, the same event happens again.

L: Hmm.

D: So in the midst of this tragedy, that is a very interesting thing.

L: Which of course brings up cause and effect, too, doesn’t it?

D: You have to wonder about how much of our lives are dictated by free will, and how much of them are ruled by these subtle planetary and astrological influences.

L: And if there are influences upon us, how to mitigate them. But that is a little bit later in our discussion tonight.

D: The most interesting reading came in on Tuesday morning, and it said,

“An epic disturbance in the Force awaits you. You never have to tell me straight twice about this. I would have also prepared some material for you in advance for this upcoming event, but then we already know and understand that the material presented is going to be there one way or the other.”


L: Hmm.

D: And you remember in Star Wars, when they talk about an epic disturbance in the Force, it had to do with the explosion of a planet.

L: Oh, yes, the Obi-Wan Kenobi could feel it. Yeah.

D: So that is very interesting. On Wednesday morning, I had a dream where my friend’s face was painted totally in white, and she was in mourning. And then there was a whole discussion about how you could hermetically seal a car in plastic, so that you could live safely inside and nothing would be able to penetrate it.

L: Hmm. We are talking with David Wilcock, and he has been studying Ascension, and what it means. I consider it part of the modern mythology that is unfolding today. Is there more to it?

We will get to that. Right now he is detailing some of the dreams, (he is a dream reader,) that he has had recently that might relate to today’s disappearance of John Kennedy Jr. and his wife Caroline. I’m Laura Lee.




L: I’m Laura Lee, and this is the Laura Lee Show. We’re talking with David Wilcock about Ascension. Now Dave, what you do is a dream reader, where you actually dream for people after a brief interview and see what’s up. I guess you’re tapping into the collective unconscious or whatever.

It’s interesting, because if you can make a case for that, that we are tied in collectively on a subconscious or superconscious level, then that is part of the argument for Ascension, isn’t it?

D: Yeah, it sure is!

L: Do you want to explain that one?

D: Okay. We are all tapped in on the collective subconscious level, and that has to do both with the entity, or our soul body, as well as the physical level. We need to realize that there is a lot more to us than just a physical body.

That ties in with the earliest psychic experience that I really had, which was when I was five. I found myself floating over my own body in the middle of the night. And it was not a dream, it was definitely not, because I was far too awake and it was very real.

I floated down the hallway, turned and went down the staircase and I got very scared, and I seemed to be back in my body.

L: Mmm. Those recall generally out of body experiences, as opposed to dreams?

D: Yeah. It was very vivid and very real, and I could actually count the bumps on the lamp on the ceiling as I floated down the hallway.

L: Aren’t those fun? Hmm.

D: (Laughs) So, the next thing that was pretty interesting was that when I was age seven, I had felt that I had failed because I got scared and didn’t go where I was supposed to go. That led me to read “How to make ESP Work For You” by Harold Sherman. I was in second grade.

L: That’s pretty interesting reading for a second grader!

D: Yeah, I was a pretty early bloomer! Most of the other kids in the class were reading Clifford the Big Red Dog… (laughs)

L: I read that book…

D: And I put this book cover over my book so that nobody would see what I was reading.

L: Uh-huh.

D: I was able to guess numbers one through ten accurately, and have a 100 percent hit rate. I was also able to telepathically influence my friends to wake up in the middle of the night, which they didn’t really like.

L: Oh… but did you ask them the next day?

D: Yeah. I told my friend that he would wake up at 3:30 and think of gold – and I didn’t even know why I threw the gold in. So I am at the cafeteria the next day, we were both drinking our milk, and I said, “So Eric, how did you sleep last night?” And he was horrified!

I said, “What is going on?” He said, “I woke up with a start in the middle of the night, and I didn’t know what time it was.” And I said, “Well, what was the first thing that you thought of?” And he said, “I thought of my watch.” And I said, “Well, what color is your watch?” And he said, “Gold.”

L: Hmm!

D: And I said, “Wow. Let me tell you a story about what I just did last night.” And it was pretty incredible.

L: Hmm.

D: So I was doing Tarot card readings when I was in Junior High school, very accurately. I had my first consciously-induced lucid dream when I was a junior in high school. I had my “activation” experience, which was the disclosure of the reality of the extraterrestrial picture, in Spring of 1993.

L: Disclosure of the reality of the extraterrestrial picture? What are you referring to?

D: A friend of mine drove down just to see me, and as soon as he walked in the door he was white as a ghost. He told me that I had better sit down.

I said, “What is going on?”

He said, “I just got done with a two-hour conversation with my physics professor, and I had to drive over here and tell you what he told me.”

I said, “Well, what is it?”

He said, “Aliens are real,” and that this [professor had] worked in NASA throughout the 70’s. To the people in the upper echelons of NASA, it was considered common knowledge that we had captured these alien discs and were reverse engineering their technologies.

So you can imagine how surprised I was three years later, when Colonel Corso’s book [The Day After Roswell] came out, and dovetailed completely with the data that I had received in 1993.

L: Hmm. Okay.

D: So, I was forced to accept the fact that this was real. I started to go into a compulsive reading frenzy. I was usually reading five books at once, and about finishing one a week.

L: Don’t you need something more than a second-hand story? How do you know that your friend wasn’t pulling your leg, or that the professor was perpetrating a joke, or that he was delusional? I mean, it very well may be, but to really rest your belief system on something like that, don’t you personally require more truth, more evidence? A firmer connection?

D: Well, you know, the professor gave some very technical information that has never before been published. One of the things that he said was that the ship was able to go to light speed by shooting a particle that was going three quarters the speed of light, a particle of radiation…

L: (Cuts off David’s explanation of the propulsion system, which David fully explains in his later interview with The Spectrum newsmagazine.) How do you know that’s true, though? I mean, people can make up these things, or make it sound good.

D: It just didn’t have that feeling. It had the feeling that… what this professor said was that it didn’t matter if they told a few people here and there. It was part of this acclimation program. The one thing that they didn’t want was to have a screaming banner on the New York Times.

But they said that if people tell each other here and there, then it becomes hearsay almost immediately, and everybody can question the validity of the story. Because no one has the smoking gun yet, that is the problem.

L: Right. So you thought that you just got early insider information.

D: Yeah, basically.

L: Okay.

D: And after a few years, I realized that I was very book smart, but I had no idea how all of this information related to me as a person. And that was when I started to pay more attention to my dreams, and realized that there was definitely a connection between all of this research that I was doing and the realm of consciousness. So I bridged the two over the years.

I have been able to contact this higher intelligence that appears to be behind the UFO phenomenon,

L: Hmm!

D: … and I have got three thousand pages of transcripts that I have done every day since November 10, 1996, that detail these communications that I have had with these intelligences.

L: So do you think that there is one governing intelligence behind the UFO phenomenon?

D: Well, there is a whole cast of characters, and they are all in different dimensional frequencies.

L: Mm hm.

D: We were talking about, in the beginning there, how there is an octave of dimensions.

L: Yeah.

D: And so, most of the beings that we are seeing are fifth-dimensional. But there are also sixth-dimensional beings, and those will just appear as a luminous apparition. And they can appear and disappear just by a focus of consciousness – they do not need a spacecraft to travel.

L: Mm hm. So explain from your understanding, the dimensions. What is a dimension?

D: Okay. In the beginning there was the One, and the One was Pure White Light, and the One was Pure Sound. Hence the AUM, which you hear in the Hindu scriptures. The Light fragmented itself down into an octave or the spectrum.

You have do, re, mi, fa, sol, la, ti, do, you have red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet. In the work “Physics of Love” by Dale Pond, he shows that the vibrational numbers for these two spectrums are perfectly in sync with each other.

So, it appears that the dimensions are also frequencies of vibrations, and they also therefore conform to an octave.

L: Isn’t an octave, though, kind of a Western way of organizing the notes, just like the colors — there could be an infinite number of colors, or maybe six, or the chakras. People say that there seven, but in some systems there are ten or twelve.

D: Right.

L: So, how do you know? I mean, isn’t it just a little too incidental, that in Chinese music there is fifteen notes in their octave, so to speak, or whatever it is, and in Indian music there is another.

We happen to be in a Western culture where we assign eight notes to our octave, and that is how we organize music, one of many ways. And now you are saying, “Well, gee, there is eight notes to it…” And Dale Pond? I mean, all of this is conjecture! It is not demonstrated, it is not proven!

[Note: This is actually a factual error on Laura Lee’s part that David did not have time to argue, as Dale Pond certainly did prove his point.

There are obviously different ways to organize sound than an octave, such as the 13-note chromatic scale, which is based entirely on “half-steps”, as these intervals are called. The regular eight-note major scale is a mysterious blend of half-steps and whole steps that just “works” when we hear it.

The Chinese scale only has five notes, and this system may well have originally been devised by the apparent limitations that were created when they made their bamboo flutes- perhaps their oldest musical instruments. The notes that they did include, however, are all from the basic chromatic scale, which is the expanded form of the octave.

(Hindu musicians have also been known to use “quarter-tones” or “micro-tones” that very slightly deviate from the chromatic scale for subtle musical effects. This is the only exception to the case where all “modes” or alternative scales (such as “Gypsy mode”) are derived from the chromatic scale.)

None of this changes the fact that both the sound octave and the light spectrum encompass the complete range of their frequencies — a complete cycle of sound, and a complete cycle of visible light.

No sound that will ever be made can fall out of an octave structure, and the eight common notes of the “major scale” octave are those which, for some mysterious reason, respond the purest and the sweetest to our own ears as well as those of the plant and animal kingdom.

Although this is an over-simplified example, a friend of David’s can play a nice major-scale melody on his guitar for his cats, and if he arbitrarily throws in a “bad” note they will tense up, waver or even hiss at him and leave the room.

This also explains why you can play anything using only white keys on the piano, and no matter what you play it will sound good, as long as you stay in rhythm.

If you start going up into the black keys, which represent sharps and flats that deviate from the standard eight tones of the octave, you immediately run the risk of hitting a “sour” note if you do not really know what you are doing — and thereby throw your entire fledgling musical endeavor down the toilet!

We also need to keep in mind that the quantitative frequency relationships between the vibrational speeds of air molecules that produce the sounds in the octave and the vibrational speeds of the photons that make up the visible light spectrum are in perfect, harmonic ratios with each other.

They are both functions of the same basic force — a vibration of energy. You could break their full cycles up into any arbitrary divisions that you want — but it doesn’t change the fact that if you start on “Do” in the octave and “Red” in the spectrum, line them up and compare them from top to bottom, their vibrational relationships will remain in perfect proportion.]


D: Well, one of the things that I think…

L: To me, it is all too coincidental… but go ahead…

D: Okay. One of the things that I think helps to prove it is [this.] The greatest mathematician of the 19th Century was an Indian man by the name of Srinivasa Ramanujan.

L: Okay.

D: And he talked about how he would see the goddess Namakkal in his dreams, and she would give him these physics theorems. He sent them to the mathematician Geoffrey Hardy from Cambridge, and Geoffrey Hardy said, “My God, this guy has rederived 100 years worth of Western mathematics, just on his own, with only one book!”

And there were theorems in there that they had never even seen before – and he was getting all of this from this angelic goddess.

So he had these things called modular functions, which had to do with the dimensional frequencies.

L: Mm hm.

D: And the key number in these Ramanujan functions is eight — it shows up over and over again in the strangest places.

L: Mm hm.

D: So the physicists, now, if you read Hyperspace by Michio Kaku, he asks the question, “Why is this number eight so important?” They do add, by the way, two extra dimensions to make it ten.

They say that those two extra dimensions are necessary for symmetry. It is my belief that the symmetry is not necessary — that these have a symmetry that we do not understand yet, and therefore we do not need to add two dimensions.

L: Well, it is similar to what Kepler was doing, trying to make the orbits of the planets into perfect circles. We now know that they aren’t in perfect circles. But for us to impose our own sense of order on them, it just throws the picture askew that we are trying to build reality [upon] out there. So we have to be wary of that, right?

D: Mm hm.

L: So anyway, go on.

D: Okay. Another thing that I think is important that we should mention is [that] Edgar Cayce talked a lot about 1998 through 2001.

There is a reading 1602-3, where he says, “In 1998 we may see a great deal of the gradual changes that have come about. These have come about through the cycle of the solar activity, or the Sun’s passage through the various spheres of activity…”

L: And the sun does play a much bigger role than we ever thought it had, yeah.

D: So, what is this solar cycle? And with John Major Jenkins, we have the first hint at a very big answer, because his work Maya Cosmogenesis 2012 is showing us that the Earth’s position relative to the galactic center, which is where the black hole is supposedly located in the center of the galaxy, appears to be keyed in directly with this phenomenon of precession that we have talked a lot about on these types of programs.

[This is] where the Earth has a slow wobble that takes about 26,000 years to complete itself.

L: Mm hm.

D: And that’s the foundation of the cycle that we’re talking about tonight. Cayce’s cosmology of ages did break down pretty nicely into these 25 to 26 thousand year chunks.

L: What is Cayce’s cosmology of the ages? What is that referring to?

D: Okay, well basically what he said was that we originally had amoebalike thoughtform bodies, and that we got ensnared in matter.

The first Adam was named Amilius, and he incarnated to try to save us – to bring us to the fact that we could reunite with our God consciousness because we had lost it. At one time we had it, but then when we became ensnared in matter, we forgot that we were one with God.

L: This is from Edgar Cayce.

D: Mm hm.

L: Okay.

D: And he talks about the Christ pattern, and how Amilius was the first Adam, and Jesus was the last Adam. And so, Jesus fulfilled this pattern of descending into materiality, going through a series of physical incarnations and then culminating with this Ascension through the crucifixion, which is symbolic of the crucifixion of the Ego.

L: Oh, well we will have to talk about the Christian meaning of Ascension as well, as we look at Ascension and the various ideas on it. Interesting. These ideas have been around for quite a long time, haven’t they? The transformation, the alchemists were into transformation of Spirit.

[We have] Edgar Cayce talking about going from thoughtforms to physical bodies back to who knows what. And I understand that ancient people thought that we were souls coming from stars, having an earthly sojourn, and the big lesson [being] that we are not our bodies. Our bodies are just merely our vehicles.

D: It is pretty interesting that I can lie down and in a very short period of time in a trance induction, I can defy all the laws of physics that we now have.

L: I think the laws of physics bind the soul and the consciousness. I think that there is a different set of physics — quantum physics describes it nicely. My question, though, is [this.]

The physical body is a very nice vehicle to play around here in 3D space, or our perception of 3D space. And this is where the laws of Newtonian physics come in to tell us how 3D space works.

D: Right.

L: However, the Near Death Experience tells us that a lot of people are traveling, the out of body experience tells us that a lot of people are traveling around in consciousness without their physical bodies. So we do quite nicely for, what, probably a third of our existence here in these durations we call Earth lifetimes, out of body.

Why do we need to take our physical bodies with us? Or why do we need the physical body to transform? We are already eternal. I guess that is my big question.

Why is it so necessary, according to the Ascensionists, that we gain immortality on a physical plane? We already have it on the eternal soul plane. But I am getting signaled by Carson to take a break. So maybe you can address that when we come back. We will continue with David Wilcock. I am Laura Lee.




L: Laura Lee here, on the Laura Lee Show. Later tonight Gregg Braden joins us. He has got interesting info on the Shroud of Turin, some of the scientific studies. His recent trips to Tibet finding manuscripts in some libraries that were put there long ago for safe keeping.

We have got some open phone time just to generally visit with you, and we hope that John Kennedy Jr. is found alive and well with his wife and sister-in-law.

A couple of things. Oh, answer that question for me at the top of the hour, if you will, Dave. We are talking right now with David Wilcock about Ascension.

Why is everyone talking about Ascension? What does this mean? What are some of the ideas? They say that they are gathering a picture of this that previous cultures knew about Ascension, wrote about it, that there are some physics to back this up. I am wondering, “Prove it to me. What is the argument here?”

Before you answer the question I posed to you, what is some of the other evidence coming in that [leads] you and others to make the case for Ascension? Just give me a laundry list, would you?

D: Okay. I sort of got a unique spin on some of these things that are not being commonly cited.

L: Good. Let’s hear it.

D: One of the things that I think is pretty interesting is [this.] If you read the book The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot…

L: And we have had him on the show. Mm hm.

D: Mm hm. You have people who have witnessed yogis and mystics spontaneously disappearing and leaving behind a pile of hair and fingernails.

L: Hmm!

D: There was someone I knew personally who went to India to meet with Sai Baba, who is a mystic who apparently materializes things out of thin air.

L: Mm hm.

D: And there was one point where he was asked if he could a certain Rolex watch. And he asked them, “Well, where would you get it,” and they gave him the name of a certain store in New York. He asked what street it was on, and they told him.

He meditated and stayed still for a few minutes, and then when he stopped meditating, he shook his hand and had the watch! And then later they went back to the store, and the man in the store said that this really funny guy in a red robe with this big puffy Afro hair went and paid him in cash for this Rolex watch!

L: Oh, I am glad it was done honorably! (Laughs)

D: (Laughs)

L: But your point is that there are prototypes out there. There have been people, Saint Germain is often cited in this category, people who have achieved some sort of transformation already. And if they can do it, so can we.

D: Well, I like to look at it from a different perspective…

L: Oh, tell us!

D: The Philadelphia Experiment was a case where you have the USS Eldridge, in 1943, [which] was berthed in the dock at Norfolk Harbor, and it was transported up to Penn’s Landing Area in Philadelphia and then back down to Norfolk again.

[This was done] supposedly by an energetic process using what, according to Carl Allen or Carlos Allende, according to the literature, said was this gigantic amount of magnetic equipment that created a pulsating, geometric magnetic field surrounding the ship.

[This field] caused it to disappear, and caused the men to disappear. What that shows me is that with the right geometry of magnetic fields, you can indeed make the human body transform. Because after all, 99.999 percent of us is empty space, and the rest is apparently conscious energy, if we follow Fred Alan Wolf and the other physicists who are studying this.

L: You know, and I would differ in that I don’t believe the Philadelphia Experiment. I would need more proof to believe it. Somebody was telling me that there was a reunion of the guys who were on that ship, and they never talked about it – they never believed that it happened.

D: Right, I read about that.

L: People say, “Oh, they were brainwashed,” or “Their memories were erased,” or what have you. It’s a wonderful story, and it appeals to the imagination, and there is enough reality around it to cause it to look pretty interesting – but it doesn’t mean that it happened.

D: The nice thing about this theory is that it has so many different components, and they all fit together, that even if a few of the components are not quite right on, the overwhelming [volume of] data is still quite persuasive.

And some of it would just be faith — faith in the fact that the readings that are telling me all these future prophecies are telling me the truth about Ascension too. But there is a lot more than that. There is a lot of scientific data, and that is really what I am trying to get at tonight.

L: Go, go for it.

D: One of the things that we need to become aware of is that the Universe pulsates throughout all the dimensional frequencies — and this is told to us in the Seth books. Now I don’t think that there is any way that we could prove this, but supposedly this metaphysical structure called a Consciousness Unit is a pulsating entity of dynamic energy that pulsates through all the dimensional frequencies.

And it pulsates through geometry — and the geometry that it pulsates through is the simplest of all geometric forms, known as the Platonic Solids. These Platonic Solids are listed as the Tetrahedron, Cube, Icosahedron, Dodecahedron and Octahedron.

It appears that, (and it goes into great detail in my book about this) there is a very large connection between the octave of sound and color and the octave of geometry. And what makes it so interesting is that it comes to us from the Vedic scriptures — these Hindu scriptures.

These are the same Hindus that had the Vimana spacecraft recorded in the Vedas, and also what appears to be the record of a nuclear exchange, such that Robert Oppenheimer, one of the founders of the nuclear bomb in the 20th Century, said at the time that it was being tested that this was not the first time that humanity had exploded a nuclear device.

L: Hmm…

D: It is so compelling when they are talking about this great iron capsule that is charged with the light of a million suns, and then how [there is] a bright flash of light, and how elephants are just not even able to walk, and they are just vaporizing into ashes — very intense stuff.

So, if the Hindus have this Vedic scripture that appears to go back, if you believe what they say, goes back more than 12,000 years. And we also have Thompson and Cremo, with Forbidden Archeology, and you know that the whole reason why they started that investigation…

L: Because they were Vedic scholars. Mm hm.

D: …which was about the antiquity of the human race, was from a line in the Vedas that talked about how old we are. And they have traced it back ten million years of fully modern humanoid forms. So that is pretty strange.

But what we are really trying to get at here is that the Hindus, who seemed to have connections to some very advanced technology — (for example, they described a mercury engine that would power the vimana), they also described that the chakras in the body, that each chakra in the body corresponds to an energy body, and that these energy bodies are governed by certain geometric shapes — and the shapes assemble themselves into an octave.

So we have an octave of geometric shapes that comes to us from the Hindus. And it is remarkable, because if you plot these out and look at them, you can see how each one grows out of the one before it.

So it is my belief that the multidimensional nature of the universe is fundamentally based off of a sphere, which would be the center point, the point of Pure Light, and that the superstrings that the physicists are now talking about are what pulsate outward from this.

They pulsate outwards in all directions at the same speed, which forms a spherical field. And the field has certain node points where the strings will overlap with each other, and those node points in turn form straight lines of force between them, like what happens when two magnets attract each other. And that is what generates these Platonic Solids.

So we, in the third dimension, are on the octahedral level, and the octahedron is what would happen if you took two Egyptian Great Pyramids and put them bottom to bottom.

So when you have Gregg Braden, with Awakening to Zero Point, who we are going to have on later tonight, talking about how the Pyramid has shown that the Earth resonant frequency raises within it, and the relative magnetic field strength decreases within it, we have to wonder, “Is the reason why that happens because the Great Pyramid was built into the precise shape that was necessary to harness this geometric frequency?…

(Audio archive cuts off at this point for several minutes:)

(Rewritten from memory:) Now we have certain scholars who have taken these same sphere-based geometric shapes, and put them within the sphere of a planet.

Richard Hoagland has done this with the tetrahedron, and shown how all throughout our solar system, there are incredible energy vortices at the points where this theoretical tetrahedron would emerge.

The Great Red Spot on Jupiter and the Great Dark Spot on Neptune are both precisely at this point, and you have sunspots on the Sun and huge volcanoes on Venus, Earth and Mars that all conform to this as well.

But there are other geometric shapes that also factor in, which we also must think about. Ivan P. Sanderson was the scientist who first alerted us to the importance of the icosahedron.

What he did was to get an incredibly high amount of data on mysterious anomalies and disappearances of aircraft from around the world. And when he started to chart out all of these disappearances, he discovered that they all clustered into twelve main areas, which he referred to as “vile vortices.”

And, these twelve main points precisely describe the structure of an icosahedron, (one of these five basic sphere-based geometric solids,) overlaid upon the Earth’s surface.

Now it seems that any time you cross through one of these points, if the planets and heavenly bodies are aligned properly, you can get some highly anomalous events that strongly suggest that dimensional-warping effects have already been happening. These warping effects include the…

(broadcast comes back into audio archive here)

… mysterious disappearances of people who were navigating in the ocean. And these were also time-space warps, where people would lose all instruments and all contact with the tower.

There was one case where a person was near [Hawaii,] [directly over one of the points of the icosahedron,] and he lost all contact with the tower for 350 miles. And what happened was that he was desperately trying to get in touch with them!

And when he finally got back in touch, he was delirious! The tower said, “What is going on,” and he said, “I have been out of contact with you for 350 miles!” And they said, “No, we were just talking to you just a second ago- what do you mean?” So there was some sort of time distortion going on there.

L: Yeah, interesting. That reminds me – Gregg also has a report on some of the new data on the Earth’s magnetic field and on this base frequency, and climate shift and all of that too.

[It is] one of the other things that we are going to talk about tonight. We are talking with David Wilcock about Ascension. He will continue to make his case for it in the next hour. You can call in at 800-800-5287. I’m Laura Lee.




L: And hello there. Thank you for joining us. And if you are just joining us and wondering what’s going on, we are in the midst of a discussion with David Wilcock. He is arguing for Ascension. We will hear him out.

He says from prototypes, people who have been rumored to have Ascended, to some ancient references to it to some modern physics and understandings of dimensions and mathematical formulas for how the universe is put together and so forth.

He says that as we approach the millennium, he is quite looking forward to it, because he believes that the close of a grand precessional cycle of 26,000 years that things change, and offer a greater opportunity for Ascension.

I am of the opinion, “Doesn’t it work nicely the way it is, with an eternal soul and having a lifetime of a short duration here, learn our lessons and go on the next one?” I am quite happy with that system.

And do we really need our physical bodies to transform with us, or are they just merely the vehicles for our various sojourns here, and probably all over the universe, because hey, it’s a big place, and eternity is a long time.

Those are the questions that I have, but I want to hear out this Ascension argument. David has posted his book on his website, by the way, we have a link to it on our own at Go to our Upcoming page if you would like to read through his work.

Later tonight, an hour from now, Gregg Braden joins us. He has got a couple of updates on Earth magnetic fields, which he has been following on a frequency beat to earth, which he has been following on climate shift. All of these, he says, argue for the theory that Earth is now affording a greater opportunity for transformation — a similar kind of idea.

He has also got new info on the Shroud of Turin. Actually it is from the 1970’s, but hasn’t been widely disseminated. Gregg has some interesting factoids about the Shroud. He is arguing that Jesus Christ was one such proto-being.

And finally, he says that on his recent trip to Tibet, he found some libraries where hidden away have been early Christian texts from the first through fourth centuries. He had some interesting conversations with abbots at these monasteries as to what these texts contained. And he says that this can give us a clearer picture of early Christianity, as these particular texts hadn’t gone through the numerous translations as the texts that we are more familiar with.

And, we have some open phone time at the end of our show- a couple of hours just to spend with you, to hang out and talk. Carson, our board-op, will start that segment off, regaling us with his tales of going on a Yeti search here in the forests of the Pacific Northwest, and some of the interesting conversations that he had off the record with some of the rangers there about vortexes and all sorts of things. So, that’s what is coming up on our show tonight.

Dave, we are in the midst of this conversation about Ascension, and you were laying out all of the various arguments for it. And I guess that the most compelling to me, thus far, are the stories of other people in history like Sai Baba, like Jesus, like others, who have Ascended or gained some sort of immortality or transformed. That is an intriguing story. Having never met one, though, I have to go on hearsay.

You say that some of the scientific evidence — Superstring — still, it’s just a theory, I mean you know, we can’t go out and find a superstring at this point…

D: Okay. It has been appearing to be the only theory that satisfies all the paradoxes currently present in modern physics.

L: Yeah, but modern physics suggests that they are out there looking for dark matter, you know, where some people say that if you just put consciousness back into the equation… if you put… who was the gentleman who argued against the Big Bang — Eric Lerner, I think, saying that if you go for plasma or some other kind of force, you don’t need dark matter.

So maybe what I am suggesting is that modern day physics doesn’t have the equation all there. Einstein was trying to solve all the forces a la Einstein. We haven’t done that yet. So I think that there is something missing in the grand formula that our modern day physics is operating on. So superstring satisfies that – that doesn’t impress me all that much…

D: Mm hm.

L: So I am just putting forward all my arguments as to why Ascension is an idea that I am still considering a myth as opposed to a reality.

D: I mean, if you think about what the implications of something like this really are – sure, it might not happen. If it does happen, on the other hand, it is going to be something that will be unparalleled in terms of how fantastic the personal experience will be as you go through this. It is a very exciting promise.

L: Describe what you think that promise is, and what do you think is going to happen? Let’s hear your thoughts out on this.

D: Okay. The first time I ever had a dream about this, really, was in 1996, on August 1st. I was looking at the moon, and all of a sudden this gigantic vortex of light came off of the moon, and it beamed down on me and I flew up into this gigantic, swirling tube of blue energy.

I had read a little bit about the Ascension, and for all intents and purposes, I believed that it was happening to me at that moment. And I flew up to the top of this tube, and the energy was rolling over my hands like I was pushing my hands into water.

I knew that I was about to go through it, and that was when the dream ended. I have had, since then, a huge number of dreams where I have had these “Ascended” abilities. I seem to fly on a regular basis, levitate objects, I can push my hand through material and bring it back.

I routinely go out of body, and I am able to do all of these things in a higher dimensional level where I am dreaming. And it is very exciting! If I was there all the time, that wouldn’t be a bad place to be.

L: Why not consider that, as I would have, many people have such dreams, and the experience that your soul has when it is detached from the physical body. Different laws operate. You know, the laws of consciousness take over.

We can do it — we can fly in our dreams. That is one very common example. We can’t fly around here on Earth unaided by airplanes. So why would one think that, are you not mixing up the levels of consciousness in that other reality on the other side of the veil with this reality in 3D?

D: But the veil is breaking. We have beings coming through in these ships that appear to have abilities and properties that are far outside the realm of anything we can know or understand.

L: You are referring to the UFO literature?

D: Sure! Beings that are able to change shape, that are able to go through solid objects, that have a technology vastly advanced over ours…

L: How do we know that they are not just inhabitants of the fourth or fifth dimension, or they just have super technology that allows them to do this?

D: Well, they are inhabitants of higher dimensions, and that is the point!

L: (Underneath-) How do we know that?

D: Are we supposed to stay on Earth on a static state, or are we supposed to graduate? What is the purpose of all this?

L: (Irritated) But that’s my very point! That it’s already in the game plan that we have eternal souls, and that when we are done with this Earth existence, we go on and consult with whoever and choose another existence on some other planet, some other dimensions for a new experience.

D: I agree with that.

L: (Again irritated) I’m going, why do we need to take our physical body with us? That is not the way that it seems to be working. We drop the physical body, it turns into dust, that dust stays here on Earth, recycles itself and we get to go on to some other new adventure.

D: But…

L: What’s the big obsession…

D: Okay…

L: …with transmuting the physical body, and taking it with us?

D: What I think is interesting, we cited the case of the Philadelphia Experiment, possibly. We also cited the case of Ivan P. Sanderson’s “vile vortices” as he called them, across the Earth, and how when someone passed over one of these vortexes, in the case of this plane we were talking about, they flew for 350 miles and were not in contact with the tower!

They had to be somewhere, but they obviously weren’t in third-dimensional reality, because in our reality, no time had elapsed while they were gone…

L: Mm hm.

D: …which was probably more like an hour in time. So I don’t doubt that the…

L: Well how do you know that the physical body left? How do you know that it didn’t happen much like the Jodie Foster experience in the movie Contact, where her consciousness departs, has a wonderful encounter, and yet she never left Earth.

D: Right.

L: I’m just saying that it seems that the physical can separate from the spiritual. Fine! It happens all the time.

D: Mm hm.

L: How does that prove Ascension, which is trying to make a case for the physical coming along with us? Is that necessary?

D: You had said that after our physical lifetime ends, that we might go on to do other things.

L: Yeah, I sure would…

D: It is my belief that we go through this in groups,

L: Uh huh.

D: …and that there are cycles that determine when this is happening.

L: Okay. So there is greater windows of opportunity at various intervals.

D: Mm hm!

L: Okay.

D: That’s why, when we’re having Gregg Braden on later tonight, the work that he has been doing is very important. Cayce made reference to a Solar Cycle — and since 1995, (*sound of coughing in background*) there is no longer a magnetic North and South on the Sun!

L: (Humorously:) That was Paul, by the way, coughing on me — go ahead.

D: (Sounding glad for a little pressure relief:) Oh, okay!

L: Go ahead.

D: And there is a very recent article that I have up on my website, and it talks about how the Solar magnetic field has become 2.3 times stronger in the last 100 years. This just came out recently.

L: Mm hm.

D: Also, the Sun seems to have some incredible powers, and the Earth is changing, and Gregg is certainly going to be talking about that too. On March 5, 1989, the Sun had a gigantic coronal mass ejection – it was totally off the scales of what we used to measure it.

L: E-jection. Mm hm.

D: Mm hm. Three days later, we were bombarded with x-rays and protons, and the magnetic field of the Earth deviated by eight degrees in a matter of minutes, compared to a normal .2-degree variance (over the course of one day.)

It was so much power that came into the Earth that it shut down power grids throughout Canada, knocked out satellites, created aurora borealis in Jamaica and almost crashed several airplanes.

And now, what is happening with the Sun just blows that out of the water. And so, the Sun, when Cayce says, “In 1998 we may see the results of this Solar Cycle,” that initially is what keyed me in to the idea that if we look in the Sun for a possible cycle, we might find something.

And that brings us to the work of Maurice Cotterell, who wrote The Mayan Prophecies with Adrian Gilbert. In that book, he discusses his work, where he plotted out the variance in the orbits between the Sun’s equator, and how fast it moves at the equator which is 26 days,

L: Mm hm.

D: …and how fast it moves at the poles, which is 37 days. And by plotting out those two cycles together, he came up with a series of graphs. And one of the most fundamental numbers that he came up with was 1,366,040 days in length.

The Mayans had almost the exact same number, located in their sacred scripture – it was called the Mayan Super-Number. And so, what Cotterell believes is that this number has to do with pole shifts on the Sun. The Mayans also have their Mayan Calendar, which is 5,125 years in length. It just so happens that if you take five of the Mayan Calendar cycles, they add up to approximately the same 26,000-year precessional cycle.

L: Mm hm.

D: And, if you take seven of these solar pole shift cycles, which is what Cotterell believes they do, you also get the same precessional number. So we have found a sunspot cycle, a Solar Cycle, just like Cayce said back on Sept. 22, 1939, that appears to be doing something. And according to Cayce, this has to do with the fifth root race, and it has to do with the Second Coming of Christ.

You have to wonder, when the readings talk about the Second Coming of Christ, they say that they do think that there will be a luminous apparition that will physically appear.

But the most important thing is the awakening of the Christ within each person — the fulfillment of the Christ pattern — the same thing that Christ did when he Ascended. And that is why in John 14:12, it says, “As I do these things, so shall ye do them, and greater things, for I go unto my Father.”

(Slightly irritated) Maybe we’re not going anywhere. Maybe the Earth is going to stay the way it is, but I believe that at some point, we will see people doing these miracles. I think that it is going to become commonplace.

I think that our world is going to be much more utopian and harmonious than what we see right now, because there is an awakening — a collective awakening that is going on.

L: Well, Cremo also says that according to the Vedas, we are about to enter an age of enlightenment with this dark-age Kali Yuga that we are in.

D: Kali Yuga, right.

L: So I think that we are heading towards some real positive things. I would say, though, that if the whole point is more and more people are going to awaken the Christ within, that is an internal process of Spirit.

It doesn’t mean that we are going to have to take our physical bodies with us. It just means that we are going to operate more fully consciously. We continue with David Wilcock. If you would like to join the conversation, pick up your telephone and dial 800-800-5287. I’m Laura Lee.




L: Laura Lee here, on the Laura Lee show, as we continue to argue about Ascension! – oh, I am enjoying this! – with David Wilcock. He is arguing for Ascension, I am a bit skeptical; where do you stand on this issue?

Is it mythology, is it wishful thinking, is it an imminent, possible reality? My biggest concern, and then were are going to go to some calls.

David, is that, you know, we are needing to focus on Spirit, and realizing that we are not just these bodies, we are Spirit, right? We are spiritual beings having a human experience. Don’t get stuck in the mud, don’t get stuck in the materialism of the world — that has been a major spiritual message.

But the Ascensionists, who want to take the physical bodies with them — isn’t that getting a bit material, getting focusing on the material aspects? The material serves us as vehicles to come down and be grounded in this 3D reality, probably a virtual reality, that we call Planet Earth, and our time and space and history and such. You know, isn’t that enough?

D: Well…

L: Are we focusing a little bit too much on immortality and gripping and… you know, our souls are immortal. We already have light bodies, I’m sure! Why do we need for physical bodies to become light bodies?

And the other question that I am getting from our chat room is “Well, then what? So you have a light body. Then what? How does that help your progress?” How does that help your… I mean, don’t you have to get the spiritual wisdom first in order to deserve the transformation? Where are we on that one?

D: Okay. There are a number of queries that have been raised in that statement, and I will try to answer some of them if I can.

I think that it is important that we realize that… we are talking about the Global Grid, and we are talking about the Solar Cycle that possibly might cause changes in this Global Grid.

And the Grid seems to have multi-dimensional effects that show up as time-space anomalies and actually arrange the continents, and have to do with migratory patterns of birds, have to do with atmospheric highs and lows, mineral and coal deposits, et cetera.

L: (Underneath:) Or maybe we just have those cycles…

D: We are also part of the Global Grid! We are also part of this conscious, sentient being of Mother Earth. And as… this is the message of spirituality that has been taught to us for so long. As we change, so does Gaia change — so does the Earth change.

L: (Irritated:) However, it could be, as we look back in time and as we have better forensic tools to look at Earth’s geological record, we find that all of these cycles are just cycles!

We have wide swings of climate, of Earth’s magnetic field strength, of this that and the other — they are just cycles! If — if these end of the 26,000 years, which is pretty short in geological terms, afforded us Ascension, why are we still here in the physical?

D: I believe that part of what we have to look at when we are asking these questions is what would be called revealed teachings – things that appear to be internally consistent that are coming from higher dimensional intelligence that already lives in these places.

L: Mm hm.

D: When enough people shift their own consciousness towards compassion, (and Gregg Braden’s second book Walking Between the Worlds has to do partly with the science of compassion and how to awaken it, and he is going to be on later tonight right after this,) when we are able to make that shift in ourselves, our vibratory energy as an entity changes.

And that also changes the Earth.

And I believe, as do many others, that there will be a decisive point when enough people have made that transformation, like what James Redfield wrote at the end of Celestine Prophecy, that there will be this spontaneous transformation.

L: (Underneath:) And what does that mean?

D: And one of your people in the chat room had talked about what happens when we get to the Fourth Dimension — is it any different, is it any better?

In the Ra Material, which is a source of supposedly extraterrestrial communications that I consult quite highly, and with a great deal of validity, (a lot of Convergence was based off of that book,) they say that even the fourth dimension is 100 times more harmonious to live in than what we have in the third right now!

And in this frequency level, you start to have the ability to look at nonlinear time, hence the ability to predict the future, levitation of the body, all of these things that appear to be fantastic and beyond our comprehension.

So I think that we are all supposed to go back to the One. We are all supposed to reunite completely with the Cosmic Consciousness. And we do this in intervals.

When we have made enough growth, we go on to the next level, and when we have cleared that level, we go on to the next level, and the Ra Material has given us a beautiful dimensional cosmology for what lessons we have to learn for each frequency. And that could be a two-hour show just discussing that!

L: (Laughs) Well, I will say that, and this is why I believe that, what you are talking about is part of the new mythology unfolding, because you saw the same basic ideas played with in the science fiction movie The Matrix, which really captured the popular imagination.

And that was that somebody wakes up and says, “Hey, let’s change the rules…”

D: Right.

L: …where we do these miraculous things. To levitate and stop speeding bullets, and all these Superman kinds of things. Wouldn’t that be fun? Let’s change the rules…

D: (Underneath:) He was the One. Right.

L: …and when one person decides to do it, then the rest of the people decide to do it. And it is that they always could do it, they just believed they couldn’t do it, and that was the stumbling block.

D: Absolutely.

L: So, mythology, yes. Is it reality? I don’t know! You decide. Tell us what you think. We’ll take your calls just after these messages, and we will continue for the next half-hour with our guest David Wilcock. By the way, we do have a link to his website if you are wanting to read his book, which we have, which he has online there for the reading.

Gregg Braden joins us after that, we have time for some open phone discussion after that. So that’s what’s ahead, right here on the Laura Lee Show. I’m Laura Lee.




L: We continue right here on the Laura Lee Show. We are talking with David Wilcock. He is arguing for Ascension. (Laughingly:) I am questioning it deeply.

Let’s hear what you have to say about the whole case for Ascension. West in Palm Beach, Florida, hello…. Hi, West, are you there? Let’s try, West, are you there?

W: Yeah, I’m here.

L: Oh, there you are!

W: Yeah!

L: Oh good! Well, welcome.

W: Thank you.

L: Can you speak up and go ahead, please.

W: Yeah, I’m sorry, go ahead.

L: No, you go ahead! You called in.

W: Well, I, uh, you know I am very intrigued. I have always been intrigued about the spiritual life. In any case, three weeks ago my uh, my mother passed away…

L: Oh, I’m sorry…

W: …and uh, myself along with my, my siblings, we were gathered around the bed when we had the uh, the life support, uh, equipment turned off. And, through the tears, you know, this fleeting thought came through my head that, is the spirit lifting from her body? You know?

L: Mm hm…

W: And, to make a long story short, my — my mom was cremated, uh, against my, my wish, umm, but umm, I just lost out, you know, against my, uh, my sisters and my brother, but uh, I had a big problem with the cremation.

And a lot of that had to do with, with does the spirit really come back to the body? You know? And if the body is cremated, that’s, that’s impossible. So when I get back here, I uh, I start analyzing this more.

And, uh, and my question was, when I called in was, what if, everything that we have been taught, from the Old Testament down through the New Testament and down till today, what if everything that we have been taught turns out to be… baloney? What happens if we just, when we die we just die, and that’s it?

L: And, uh, we’re a blip on the screen and we suddenly go off.

W: Yeah, that’s right!

L: A lot of people live as though that were the case. I think that is a personal choice. Your comments, uh, Dave?

D: Okay. With regards to the question of life after death, I feel that if you’re a five-year old kid, and have a spontaneous out-of-body experience, it is very interesting to be hovering over yourself, lying in bed, knowing that you are still alive! And knowing that you still have some sort of an energy body!

My body was still doing its job, breathing for me, pumping blood through my veins, and there was another part of my consciousness that existed separately, that was able to float down the hallway and then go down the staircase. So, I have lived all my life with the understanding that there is more to being alive than your physical body.

I think that each one of us have various experiences in our life that might be termed activations, where this veil between the physical and the metaphysical realities is starting to be let down. (11:11 p.m. on transcription, 10/17/99!!!)

It can come in many different forms. I think that just the existence of psychic phenomena — and we have all had it.

We have all had that itch before the thunderstorm, or we know who it is when the phone is ringing, or the mother knows when her child has been hurt. That implies that there is some sort of consciousness that exists outside of just being a physical body.

The question you must ask yourself is, “Does my body end at the intersection of my skin to the atmosphere? Or, am I actually part of this One, the same One that has created the whole universe? Am I a perfectly functioning microcosm of this One Infinite Creator?” That’s the question that we all need to meditate on, and ask ourselves.

[NOTE: At this point the audio archive cuts off and the rest of David’s broadcast seems to be permanently lost. Off the air, David was complimented with how well he did.]