Wilcock Interviews “Mary”-

A 15-Year Old Girl with Outrageous Telekinetic Abilities


By David Wilcock and “Mary” 

-Interviewed 11/26/99-



D: All right. What we want to do is talk about what it is that makes you unique, and some of these abilities that you have. Hopefully, by you anonymously sharing what you have been through, other people who have had the same thing happen will be able to understand themselves better.

Or, maybe there is a reason for why you have been given this ability, and there are other people who will understand more about life and about how the universe works by knowing that someone like you really exists; someone who can do the things that you do.

Now the first statement that I will make, in order to have everyone who is going to read this interview understand what is going on, is this. You did not contact me about getting this done, is that correct?

M: Yeah. (Laughs)

D: Right. Now what did happen was that through a mutual friend, I became aware of you, and I was the one who wanted to interview you, correct?

M: Yes.

D: Right. Now the first thing that a skeptic is going to think is that you are making up these stories. They are going to think that since they can’t believe that something like this could happen, it can’t be the truth.

Now before we go into the actual stories themselves, if someone was going to say that to you, if you were going to tell them something about yourself to explain this better, about where this is all going and how you fit into it and the fact that it is a genuine experience that you are having, what might you say? If someone was telling you, “Well, this sounds like it’s all crazy to me.”

M: Umm, I don’t really know. I guess that there’s no way that I could really prove it to them, but I have no reason to lie either, so that should be good enough.

D: Right. In other words, you are not getting any money from doing this, and your name is not being used, so there is no fame or anything like that. You have actually never even met me except on the telephone.

M: Yes.

D: So you’re not trying to impress me, and we are not friends who have some sort of mutually agreed decision to be pulling some sort of a deception.

M: Nope.

D: Okay. With that in mind, why don’t we go ahead and start from the younger years. The last time we spoke, which was actually the first time that we have spoken, I asked you to see if you could remember anything from when you were a child.

So at this point what I really want to do is to let you talk as much as possible, because I think that the real truth and the proof that you are not just making this up is going to come from the honesty that you have, and the experiences that you have had which obviously range throughout your life.

So with that in mind, why don’t you just start telling me what you feel you want to say, and if I have any questions for you as you go along, then I will ask them. Okay?

M: Well, what do you mean, what I want to say?

D: Well, let’s start with a description of your earliest years, and some of the things that went through your mind. (Like) if you had any dreams that were unusual, or maybe the first time that you ever noticed that you had this unusual ability.

M: Well, I had a couple of dreams when I was younger that came true, but I haven’t had any of that happen more recently. And the first time that happened to me, I was actually in first grade, so I was very young.

D: Okay.

M: But I didn’t have a lot of interesting things happen to me like paranormal things, you know. It’s all been mostly after sixth grade.

D: Okay, so after sixth grade was the first time that you had some things start to happen that were decidedly not what contemporary science thinks of as being real.

M: Yeah. I had an out-of-body experience in sixth grade. (nervous laughter)

D: Okay. Why don’t you describe what that was like, what happened to you, how far did you go, did you get scared, that type of thing.

M: Well, I was actually in the nurse’s office at school, and I fell asleep. And then I felt kind of like I woke up, and I was still in the room there, but I was looking around it and I could even see myself. And then I got really, really scared.

D: When you say you could see yourself you mean that you saw your body sleeping on the bed?

M: Mm hm.

D: Okay.

M: And then I just got really scared and I sort of woke up.

D: Right. That’s pretty much what happened to me when I was five years old. I was able to see myself sleeping in bed, I floated feet first down the hallway and started to go down the staircase.

I felt that I was being taken somewhere, and that was very frightening. And when I got really scared, I woke up right afterwards, so we had very similar experiences on that level.

Okay. So that was the first strange thing that happened. What would you consider to be the next major strange thing that happened, and how old were you?

M: Hmm. Like in eighth grade, I started to have telekinetic experiences, like my rings bending a lot and things moving around, like on my shelves and stuff.

D: Okay, well let’s take that one at a time, because this is a big topic area now. People who are going to read this interview don’t know what you mean when you say a ring bending, so could you be a little bit more specific first on the rings as to what that exactly means when you say that a ring is bending?

M: Okay. Well, like, they would sort of bend off my fingers. I wear adjustable rings mostly, and so they would just…

D: So these are not rings that have a solid metal band, three hundred and sixty degrees. These are rings that have a break in them at some point?

M: Yeah.

D: Okay.

M: And they were always metal. I don’t know if that’s important, but…

D: In other words, plastic rings did not bend?

M: No. I hardly wear any of them anymore.

D: I see. So you basically had metal rings, and the metal could be anything from I guess gold to silver to pewter or whatever.

M: Actually, sterling silver.

D: Mostly sterling silver?

M: Mm hm.

D: Okay, did you have any gold rings?

M: No, I don’t own any.

D: Okay. So we’re talking about silver rings, and they have a slit in the back so that they can fit different sizes?

M: Mm hm, or if a spoon ring that just, you know, that’s just a miniature spoon handle that wraps around your finger.

D: Okay.

M: And that would get really loose to the point where it would fall off.

D: Well, that could just be because you are using your hands to move things.

M: Mm hm.

D: Now, I mean I want you to prove me different, if there is something different. I mean, how did you know that the ring hadn’t just loosened up on its own?

M: Well, because if I am just sitting there and I am not doing anything, and then my ring is actually in a different shape, that is kind of weird. You know, like when I know I haven’t caught it on anything or anything like that.

D: And this isn’t just something that happened once or twice.

M: No, it happened a couple… a bunch of times, actually. It happened on a fairly regular basis.

D: Every week?

M: I don’t know, probably like every couple of days.

D: Every couple of days. So in other words, you might just be sitting there, and you were wearing your ring and everything is fine and the ring seems to be just on your finger like any other day, and then all of a sudden the ring would bend open like a wishbone?

M: Kind of. It happened when I was upset mostly.

D: Okay. Now that’s actually a very important piece, and you have read some of the literature on this to try to understand this better, right?

M: Uh, yeah, a little bit.

D: So when you say that you were upset, how were you upset specifically?

M: Angry, mostly.

D: Okay. Was a lot of that stuff related to issues in the family, or issues in school, or with homework?

M: Mostly in school. I just get frustrated easily with my teachers and things like that. I just hate it.

D: What makes you get frustrated with your teachers? What happens in school?

M: Well, they just make me do work that I don’t really want to do. I bring in books to class, and if I don’t like what we’re doing in class that day then I just sit in the back and read. And you know, I get in trouble a lot for stuff like that.

D: If you wanted to, you could probably put your mind into your schoolwork. I would assume from the way that you are talking that you must be a very highly intelligent person. Have you had any IQ tests, or did you take the SAT test or anything like that?

M: I had an IQ test done in seventh grade, when they were testing me for learning disabilities. And I have a 140 IQ.

D: Now that’s very high for someone your age. That’s four standard deviations above the mean, which is 100, so you are up in the ninety-eight percentile, around there.

M: Mm hm.

D: Okay. So I do know a little bit about you. What are some of the things that do interest you? Obviously school is not one of those things.

M: No. I like history a lot.

D: Okay.

M: I don’t really have any specific interests…

D: What kinds of books do you bring into school to read if you don’t like the classes?

M: Normally history books…

D: Really!

M: Or classic novels, I kind of like.

D: Hmm! That’s pretty interesting reading for a sixteen-year old.

M: Fifteen, actually, not sixteen yet.

D: Fifteen. Okay. Um, what are your favorite classic novels that you have read?

M: I liked “Little Women” a lot.

D: Okay.

M: A lot of the novels that I have read, actually, are just really old ones that aren’t even in print any more, like ‘A Self-Made Thief’ and things that, you know, you probably can’t find anywhere.

D: How did you find them?

M: Oh, I inherit lots of books. I used to live with my great grandmother, and I got a whole bunch of her old books, and things like that. I found a bunch in my barn.

D: Hmm. So you are intrigued with literature.

M: A little bit. But only more recently.

D: What were some of your interests before you started to read literature?

M: Mmm. Painting, artwork stuff, mostly.

D: Have you ever done music?

M: No. I’m not good at it.

D: (Laughs) Now, you said that sometimes the rings will bend open. Could you be a little more specific?

M: Hmm. Well, they will bend… uh, apart, sort of. I don’t know…

D: Okay. Can you actually feel it bending apart on your finger as it happens, or do you just sort of notice that it happened afterwards?

M: I don’t generally notice it. Like sometimes I do, but it usually doesn’t happen quickly. Like it happens really, really slowly, and I can watch its progression over a period of like maybe fifteen minutes.

D: But during those fifteen minutes you never actually moved your hand.

M: No. But sometimes it will happen just like when I am lying in bed, and you know, things like that.

D: Right. Do the rings also get tighter? I remember you telling me that they did sometimes before.

M: I said that happened to me once. My ring got really, really tight around my thumb, and it really hurt, actually. I couldn’t get it off, and I had to put soap on it. It was terrible.

D: Wow. So except for that one example, the rings do not generally tighten; they will get looser.

M: Yeah. Like on my spoon ring, the smaller end of it will just sort of come off and just keep rising off of my hand. It will go like a quarter of an inch off and sort of like straighten itself out.

D: Hmm. When you say spoon ring, you mean a ring that curls around, but is one piece?

M: Mm hm.

D: And is it actually shaped like a spoon? Does it look like a spoon?

M: It is a spoon handle, you know… you’ve probably seen them.

D: Okay. I think I know what you are talking about.

M: And just the one end of it will come off.

D: So this will actually bend up as much as a quarter of an inch?

M: Mm hm.

D: But you said that this will happen slowly, like you could actually look over a period of fifteen minutes and watch it changing?

M: Mm hm. I keep looking down at it every once in a while.

D: Mm hm.

M: But that’s the ring that bends the most, actually.

D: Now, has anybody else noticed this besides you?

M: Umm, I have had other people around when it has happened, but I try not to really let them notice it, you know. Because… I don’t know…

D: Is there ever a time that it happens other than when you are getting angry, or is that basically what causes it?

M: Well, that is what seems to cause it mostly, but it will just happen randomly, you know, without any real reason, I guess. I don’t think that it happens specifically any other time than that.

D: Okay. Now you mentioned some other things happening besides your rings bending, you mentioned other things moving.

M: Mm hm. Not as much, though.

D: Okay. When they did happen, if you could, I would like you to maybe pick a few examples of some of these things that have happened other than the rings, and let’s investigate a couple of those.

So why don’t you give me an example of something else that has happened. (Silence) Let’s start with some of the older ones. I mean, what was the first, was there one time when you really first had a telekinesis other than your rings? Do you remember? (Silence)

M: (Laughs) Mmmm…

D: What sticks out in your memory? What do you remember about other things moving?

M: I remember, I had this radio from the fifties, and that has turned on a couple times.

D: By itself.

M: Yeah.

D: While you were in the room with it?

M: Mm hm.

D: And what was your emotional state at the time? (Silence) Do you remember?

M: I don’t really remember, but I remember that it scared me. (Laughs)

D: Yeah. Do you remember, was it on the same station that it was when you turned it off, or was it on a different station, or was it just static?

M: Umm, it was just static. I didn’t really use it, someone got it for me and it was just kind of sitting on my shelf.

D: But you had plugged it in.

M: No, it was a battery-powered one.

D: Oh! But it did have batteries?

M: Mm hm!

D: Okay. That’s pretty interesting. What are some other examples of things like that that you remember specifically?

M: I had, uh, some plates break once. I told you about that last time, I think.

D: Well, we need to review all those things. When you say plates breaking, do you mean that you were touching them with your hands and they broke?

M: I was on the other side of the room.

D: Okay. What room was it?

M: The kitchen.

D: Okay.

M: I was facing away when it started happening. We have a cabinet where we keep our plates, and the whole stack had tipped out a little bit and they were just falling one after the other, and it woke up a couple people in my house. It was terrible.

D: Wow. When you say woke up, you mean you were awake late at night?

M: Yeah. I am kind of, well, not as bad as I used to be, but I used to have really, really bad insomnia. I used to be up at, you know, for most of the night sometimes.

D: Hmm. Okay. Now was the cabinet already open?

M: Mm hm!

D: Because you said this was inside the kitchen cabinets, right?

M: Yeah.

D: But the plates somehow by themselves moved out away from the cabinet to the edge and started to tip off one by one and shatter?

M: Mm hm! So, I went over and stopped them.

D: Now what happened with your parents? Did they think that you did this on purpose? What did you have to tell them?

M: No, I just told them that they fell out of the cabinet. That was enough. I am fairly clumsy anyway, so they don’t really care. I am always knocking things off of tables and stuff. I break dishes constantly, so it was nothing that would really surprise them.

D: (Laughs) So they are not the type of parents to punish you extremely for doing something like that.

M: No. Most of our dishes are mismatched anyway, so…

D: Wow. See, in my family, breaking a dish was a pretty serious offense, and you would get yelled at. (Laughs.) So if I ended up with, I mean how many plates broke, like five?

M: Yeah, like five or six!

D: Yeah. I would be in big trouble. But were you upset when that happened emotionally?

M: Well, not really.

D: Huh!

M: I was kind of, basically I just felt bad because I woke everybody up. But I don’t really remember how I felt beforehand, probably tired.

D: Hmm. So we have rings bending, and that story that you told me about school, I want us to save that one for the end, with the staircase.

M: Okay.

D: But before we get into that, we have covered now your rings bending, which you say happens pretty much every couple of days as long as you are wearing them, and the bending is almost always outward in a wishbone type of shape, or just an unfolding and a straightening.

M: Yeah.

D: Now this spoon ring that you are talking about, was that originally meant to be straight and it was bent for the purposes of becoming a ring?

M: I think it was a ring, because it is way too small to have originally been a spoon.

D: Okay.

M: You know, I have never seen a spoon that small, so…

D: Right. So there is really no other explanation. I was thinking that maybe if it had originally been a spoon, that if they bent it that way it could have metal fatigue that would make it easy for it to spring back into a straight shape, but that doesn’t seem to work either.

M: No, although I hadn’t even thought of that, actually.

D: Yeah. Well, the biggest problem that I will encounter in terms of publishing this transcript on my webpage is that skeptics are just going to automatically disbelieve what you are telling me.

And they are not going to need a reason, it is just that because it doesn’t fit in with their idea of what reality is, they are automatically going to discard it.

Now, how do you get along with other people your own age?

M: Not very well. I don’t know, I just don’t like them at all.

D: How do you see the events that are occurring on the planet at this time? When you look out at the planet, and then you think about yourself and if people were more like you, how would the planet be different?

M: There would be more environmental activists, and people would vote.

D: Hmm. How would people treat each other?

M: Probably better! People wouldn’t lie.

D: Right.

M: That’s probably my biggest problem with everyone.

D: Do you know if someone is lying just by a psychic type of feeling?

M: No. In fact, I get lied to a lot without realizing it. I try to be trusting of people, and it gets me in a lot of trouble, actually.

D: I understand. You have a hard time comprehending that anyone could be deceptive.

M: Yeah, I could kind of understand it if I did something to them, but, I don’t know…

D: People can be very hurtful, and it is quite amazing.

M: Yeah. I don’t know.

D: You really don’t fit in, because your mind and your spirit is in a whole different place than most people’s. That is a very common thing that the people who visit my website have felt, except that most of them are a lot older than you are and they have felt this sense of alienation all their life.

It shows up in many different ways, but generally speaking, if someone is here to do good work on the planet, to help heal the planet, they are not going to be well-liked by most people.

They are going to have a very difficult time feeling that they have a purpose and feeling that they have a reason for being here. That is a very, very commonly seen thing.

So one of the things that we are trying to do with this interview is to show that this person who I am now speaking with, namely you, is capable of doing things that many of us would consider to be a fantasy.

In other words, your life, to many people, they would consider this a fantastic gift to have that ability. Tell me a little bit about what the practical side of this is. I mean, you don’t really want to be telling people about this, right? It’s not something that you are particularly proud of.

M: No, but… um… (Laughs)

D: Do you find it interesting, or?

M: Oh, it’s fascinating! I would sort of like to be able to do it, you know if I tried.

D: To control it.

M: Yeah. I have only actually done it on purpose once, but…

D: Could you describe that for me?

M: Oh, well that was when, um, I actually moved my ring back to the shape that it was originally.

D: Really!

M: Yeah. Because it is sort of a pain for me to have to go back and like fix it into the right shape again, you know, and so…

D: What do you have to do?

M: Well, I have to like bend it really hard. I mean my rings are a little bit looser than it used to be from me bending it all the time back into shape and everything. It is kind of a pain. Sometimes I have to get other people to do it, too.

D: Hmm. So there was one case where you were able to use your mind to get the ring to bend back into its original shape.

M: Mm hm. I was actually on the phone with _____ when it happened.

D: Okay. I am going to delete the name from this.

M: I’m sorry. I didn’t think that would matter.

D: That’s all right. The person who you know is a person who I know, and that is how I found out about you. But I am going to be posting a written transcript of this, not an audio transcript anyway, so it’s not a big deal.

So you were talking to our mutual friend when you did this. How did you go about trying to make that happen? What did you do?

M: Well, I wasn’t really trying too hard. I just sort of, um, I just touched it with one of my fingers, and then it went back into place. It was very cool, because I wanted it to, but it doesn’t usually happen that way.

D: Did you have a lot of concentration?

M: No, not really.

D: So you basically put a little pressure on it with your finger, and it just bent?

M: Mm hm, which is really weird, because to get it back I really have to take it off of my hand, you know, use both my hands to fix it.

D: I do find that interesting, because in the literature on spoon bending, which is the most common way that people bend metal, they will get the spoon “hot”, or when it gets to the right point, there is a period of time that lasts for maybe one minute, sometimes less than thirty seconds, where for the brief period of time that it happens and the area of the spoon where they are doing it, which is usually between the stem and the bowl, they can bend it just like it is a piece of taffy.

So it is interesting that you would say the same thing, that basically when it was in this bendable state, it was as though the matter phase of the molecules in the metal had changed, so that it could be moved with very little pressure.

M: Mm hm. It’s pretty cool!

D: Yeah! Have you ever thought of any other experiments that you might want to try later on, that you might be able to use to do this with?

M: Not really.

D: You had mentioned the radio coming on by itself, you had mentioned plates falling out of the cabinet. Now before we get to the one that fascinated me so much the last time that we spoke, are there any others that you remember, besides the rings themselves?

M: No, not really. I know other stuff happened, but I don’t really think about it too much. It’s just random stuff.

D: Okay. Is there a size limit to how things have moved? I mean, would you consider the plates to be the largest object that has ever been moved, other than the example that we are about to go into?

M: Yeah.

D: Okay. Now, when you tell me this final example, I have already heard this before. Now this is the one where people are really going to have a hard time believing. The reason why it fascinated me so much is that it shows me that the potentials are basically limitless.

In other words, if you had control over this ability, really the sky is the limit — quite literally.

So why don’t you describe to me what happened, where you were, what your emotional state was like, and what the experience was like. Why don’t you do that for us now.

M: Okay. Well, it was in middle school, and I was late for English class.

D: And what grade was this?

M: Eighth.

D: And how old were you?

M: I was thirteen.

D: Okay. So this was about two years ago?

M: Mm hm.

D: So you were late for English class in middle school.

M: Yeah. So I was running up the stairs to try to get there on time, because I really, really didn’t want to get in trouble. And, so then I levitated up the stairs part way.

D: Okay. Now what was that like? In other words, you are running up the staircase. How many stairs were left before the top of the staircase when this started to happen?

M: I don’t know when it started, because I wasn’t paying that close of attention.

D: Okay. But you felt like you were still climbing the stairs, at first. So you don’t actually know when it started, because in your experience you were just climbing the staircase.

M: Yeah, basically. Only I was kind of, I noticed it because I was moving a little bit faster than my feet were going, if that makes any sense.

D: Oh, wow!

M: You know what I mean? And so, that was like, kind of why I noticed it.

D: So you wanted to go up those stairs so badly…

M: I must have!

D: … that you started to… your body was actually moving faster. I mean, the first thing that would come to mind, that even a non-skeptical person would say, is well, “Didn’t you stop hearing the sound of your feet hit the staircase?” Was it a quiet, I mean was everybody else in class? Was it basically quiet?

M: Yeah, everybody else was in class, but… I don’t know. I didn’t really notice that.

D: You didn’t notice if the volume of your footsteps stopped?

M: Yeah, I didn’t notice a sound difference at all.

D: Okay.

M: There must have been, but I just…

D: You were so focused on trying to get to class that that was the last thing you were trying to think about.

M: Yeah, which is kind of crazy, but…

D: So maybe if… I mean, how big of a staircase was it? Are we talking a typical, maybe like…

M: Typical, you know, you go up like eight stairs, and then there is the landing, and then you go up another…

D: Had you already passed the landing?

M: Yeah.

D: So maybe there would be about twenty more stairs, twenty-five more stairs after the landing.

M: Mmm, no. Like seven stairs after the landing, probably.

D: Oh, okay.

M: Yeah, because it was only a two-story building.

D: Okay, so this was a rather short staircase.

M: Mm hm. Yeah, average sized.

D: But you went up those seven… it happened after you hit the landing, is that right?

M: Mm hm.

D: So you started to go up those seven stairs, but you were moving your legs and you were going up the stairs faster than your legs were moving.

M: Mm hm.

D: What happened at that point?

M: (Laughs) Well, I looked down, and my feet were off, a little bit off the stairs.

D: How many inches?

M: Like three or four.

D: Three or four inches. So basically you were hovering over the stairs. How many stairs were left on the staircase when this happened? Were you at the very top of the stairs?

M: No, because I stumbled after that, and I fell on stairs. So I was probably like four away from the top of the staircase.

D: Okay, and you told me that there were only about seven in the whole staircase.

M: Yeah. So I probably didn’t go awfully far with it.

D: So then, it almost sounds to me like, you hit the landing, you are in such a hurry. You take another step forward, and you skip three stairs in one step, and suddenly notice that you are hovering. And at that point you got scared, and then basically the energy left you?

M: Yeah, and it was kind of like I tripped, you know. But I didn’t get hurt or anything, so it was okay.

D: When you say you tripped, what do you mean?

M: Well, it was sort of like tripping, you know.

D: Right.

M: It was like I just fell.

D: But you fell because you… I mean…

M: I was freaked out!

D: Right. So basically you take this… I am assuming now that it is only one or two steps if you only went up about three stairs. But you moved too quick for how you were stepping, and you wanted to know what the heck was going on, so you looked down.

How long were you looking down before this force field stopped? Just fractions of a second, or was it like one or two seconds long, or…

M: Umm, a couple seconds.

D: Really. So there was a distinct pause, where you could have said “One one thousand, two one thousand…”

M: Well, no. Probably just like two seconds, you know. It was quick, but…

D: But it was long enough that you were well aware that gravity was not in effect for you at that moment.

M: Yeah.

D: When you realized that this was happening, you got scared?

M: Mm hm!

D: And then once you got scared, it was like you fell?

M: Yeah.

D: But the fall would be almost like the force field just stopped.

M: Mm hm.

D: And then you couldn’t, you didn’t just fall standing up, you fell in a way that landed on the stairs.

M: Yeah…

D: Mm hm. Now, you must have thought about this a lot since that happened. I mean, what does that tell you about reality? What goes through your mind when you think about how something like that could have happened?

M: I don’t know. I’d like to know how it happened, actually.

D: Right. It’s pretty fascinating, isn’t it?

M: It’s very fascinating! There’s no really good books written on it that I have found, like that.

D: Well, I think I told you last time about a book called “The Holographic Universe” by Michael Talbot. And in that book, he discussed DD Howe, who was able to levitate himself and could put his arms or head into fire without getting burned…

M: Yeah, you told me about that…

D: And his famous trick was that he would levitate an accordion inside of a cage and have it play a song and dance around by itself. So, there are some very incredible potentials that can be done with this.

And the literature seems to suggest that people who can already have it happen by accident are the ones who are more apt to be able to learn to control this.

M: But how do people do that? People like Uri Geller, I have always kind of wondered about that.

D: From what I can remember, from reading about spoon bending, there is a distinct process that is involved with making it happen. The process basically involves holding the spoon in your hand.

You can either hold it by the stem or by the bowl, and different people have different preferences. But you want to hold your fingers over the part where the metal is the thinnest. There are two ways to do it.

One way is that you just do it with one hand, and you just rub those two fingers together where you are holding it.

The more common way is for people to hold it ether by the stem or the bowl with the left hand, let’s say, if they are right-handed, and then with the other hand they take their index finger, and they rub that index finger back and forth over the same area on the surface of the spoon. Now that is what your physical hands are doing.

As far as what is going on in the mind, the spoon bending article that I read basically said that you needed to focus all of your concentration between your eyebrows, having a great deal of focus there and just really being totally determined.

And at that point, when you get that real, real sharp focus of feeling an energy coming in through your eyebrows, you send that energy down your arms. And you focus all of that concentration in that center between your eyebrows like a laser beam onto the spoon, at the area that you are touching it with your finger.

And then, with some people the spoon will actually bend by itself, just by continuing to move your finger like that. And from what I have heard, at that point, when it starts to get a little bit gummy, you have anywhere between five to thirty seconds or more where you can basically just bend it and spin it around, and do anything you want with it and it will be as malleable as silly putty.

I have had experience myself with telekinesis in a different form, and it is a controllable experiment that allows you to see how well you are doing. I will say this both for you and for the readers of this interview.

This process involves taking a square piece of paper, just a regular ordinary piece of paper, and it should be about no larger than three inches on a side. That is the maximum. In fact, it is a little bit better if it is a little bit under three inches, like two and a half to three inches.

Now you want to fold that paper across its four corners. You want to fold corner to corner, so that you have an X, and the X is being drawn based on those four corners, just like you did connect the dots.

Now when you fold it like that, it will actually form a little pyramid, like the one you see in Egypt. You can fold it up into a pyramid shape. And then, there are any number of ways to do this, but the most typical way is that you want to take a typical cork or a piece of clay or anything that you can use that will stay in one place but you can stick something into. Typically it is a cork.

You will take a cork, and you will take a needle. You put the needle into the cork so that the point is facing upwards. You want to try to get that needle so that it is as straight up and down as possible, so that it doesn’t have a tilt or anything.

And then what you do, in some cases some people will reinforce the tip of that paper pyramid on the bottom with a little piece of tape, so that it doesn’t get cut by the needle as easily. But you want to stick that pyramid on top of the needle, so that right at the very point of it, that is where the needle is touching.

And then, once you have got that set up, you want to find yourself in a room where there is very little ventilation — you don’t have any open windows. It is best to be in a room where the door is closed and there is no heater or air conditioner running.

M: Like a closet.

D: Well, you don’t want to be in a small room, you want to be able to breathe. (Laughs) You know, basically you just don’t want there to be a draft. But even if there is a draft, generally the draft will not make the paper spin for any length of time.

And if you try to breathe on it or blow on it to deliberately make it spin, you can get it to spin a little bit but it will stop pretty quick.

Now the idea is that by nothing more than concentration, which has to be pretty intense concentration for most people, eventually you will start to get this thing to move by itself. And it will start to spin in either a clockwise or counter-clockwise direction.

The psychic technique to do this pretty much involves just seeing it happen very clearly in your mind’s eye. Now let me flip the tape over here.

[tape flips]

So the technique involves basically this. Nothing else seems to work except seeing it in your mind as though it were already spinning. When I have done this before, I have literally sat there for an hour and seen nothing.

And then, it is only when you stop really caring about whether it moves any more and just start to visualize it spinning in your mind. And you can even mentally say the word “Spin” over and over again, or “Turn” or “Work.” I believe that Uri Geller used the word “Work.”

M: Yeah.

D: You just keep repeating that word in your mind, whichever one you choose, and it will spin by itself. Now in my case I did something pretty amazing. At antique shops and hobby shops, you can get these pieces of glass that are designed to encase old dolls, or clocks or things that are basically not supposed to be exposed to the air.

And these glass cases are generally in the shape of a big tube, they are generally more than a foot tall, and they have a perfectly flat bottom.

You can take one of those hobby jars and put it over the spindle, and that way it is impossible for it to move by any other force than that of the mind. Now in my case I did not have access to something like that.

All I did have access to was a honey jar. A peanut butter jar was not quite wide enough to allow the paper to spin properly. So I found a honey jar that was wide, and I had it lying there perfectly still. I never touched the table, I never moved anything, there was no way that it could have a breeze.

I was concentrating on this thing, and it suddenly by itself spun fast, for like a 180-degree turn, like half of one circle, and then it stopped just as quickly. It just went whoop! It just spun really quick.

But unlike how inertia would work, where you would expect that it would slow down, it just made a really sharp movement and then it stopped dead. And that was pretty much as far as I ever went.

I realized pretty quickly that because I am able to do these readings, when I go into those trance states, that for my way of thinking it was sort of a waste of my time to spend hours and hours waiting for one little piece of paper to move. (Laughs)

Now I will share with you some of the things that have happened to me. Now this is something that I haven’t written about on my website very much. But you can benefit from this, and also my readers will.

The most common anomaly that I have is with electromagnetic devices. I can’t tell you how many times I have blown light bulbs when I have gotten frustrated.

M: I have a friend who does that a lot.

D: You do!

M: Yeah. She sets fire to things, too. Or she says that she has. I don’t know if I believe her.

D: Huh. And she usually blows light bulbs when she gets upset about something?

M: Yeah. When she gets angry, then stuff will do that. She made the library in our school black out once.

D: Really!

M: Yeah, it was kind of funny.

D: How did you know that it was her, and not just something random?

M: When she walked into the room, the lights all went out, the computers and everything. And then when she walked out, they all came back on. It was really strange.

D: Interesting. There was one time where I was working at this resort hotel that I can’t really name, but it was in the area where I used to live. I was punching out at the end of the day, and I was very upset about working there that day.

I was very glad to be leaving, so I guess I had a swear word going through my mind at the exact time that I punched out. I was just really tired and exhausted, and said, “Oh, I have got to get the blank out of here.”

And right as I slid my card through the machine, ALL the power went out.

M: Whoa, cool!

D: Yeah. They had backup generators, and so the power kicked on a moment later when I said, “Whoa, what is going on?” But that was a pretty extreme example. I have had light bulbs blow on me many times.

I also cannot use cordless telephones, because when I did have a cordless telephone, I would be staying in one place, and I didn’t even have to go anywhere. I could just be sitting in the same place with perfect reception, and get really excited in a conversation and really enthusiastic. Usually it was when I was talking about something metaphysical like this.

And all of a sudden, it would just hang up. You would hear this click, and the phone would just be off the hook [with a dial tone.] It was like I would actually scramble the radio waves coming out of the telephone.

And now, the electromagnetic anomalies usually happen most often with my computer. If I work too hard or it is too late at night and I am still trying to get something done, then there are any number of things that will happen to my computer that will cause it to be a problem. Most commonly, it crashes.

I will be writing in the word processor, and pushing myself too hard, and suddenly everything just locks up and freezes. There is nothing that I can do except to turn off the whole computer and turn it back on again, which obviously makes you run through scandisk and all that horrible stuff.

So that’s one of the things that happens to me. I have also had experience where sometimes my telephone jack has a little bit of static in it. And the static will be directly correlated with what my emotions are in the conversation that I am having on the telephone.

In other words, if I start getting really frustrated with the person who I am talking to, the static will just get overwhelming, just deafening noise, and I will have to go and actually physically adjust the plug.

But there have been other times where the static goes nuts, and I just simply stop thinking that way and the static stops.

So those are some of the things that have happened to me. The two most incredible examples that I have, I still haven’t put them on the website, but maybe I will put them side by side with this interview.

The first one involved a friend of mine who did something that must remain personal to him. But it was something that he did that was very negative. Very negative – something that would be extremely unfavorable to somebody in the higher realms, or even somebody in this realm.

Now I didn’t know this, but at almost the exact time of night that he did this, I woke up at night from a dream. But I didn’t just wake up, and I will explain what I mean.

I was having a dream, and in the dream an old friend of mine, a different friend, had discovered that he had can-openers for hands, sort of like Captain Hook in Peter Pan, you know. But this was both hands.

And he was very, very upset, because he didn’t know how he was ever going to be able to pick up something again. And he was really scared, and I told him, “Don’t worry, it’s going to be okay, you’ll be fine.”

I showed him, with my hands, how he could use those can openers to pick something up, and that he would be able to still feed himself and so forth. When I showed him this, he got really, really excited.

He was so happy, and he wanted to show me that he could pick something up with his can-opener hands. So he held out both of his arms way, way out to the side, all the way out at a perfect 90-degree angle to his body, wide open.

And then, he just SLAMMED his hands together, so that the two can openers hit each other with all of his might. It was a very violent motion that he made.

Now, at the exact second, and I do mean down to the second, that those two can openers hit each other, there was an explosively loud noise in my physical room, where my physical body was sleeping, that woke me up instantly.

And I realized that the light that I have, which clips onto my windowsill, had spontaneously fallen off and broken on the ground. It didn’t actually shatter the bulb, but the bulb blew, and the light fell off of the windowsill by itself. [The light still worked later on when the bulb was replaced.]

That was totally amazing, because you had something where it was a dream and it was real, and the reality and the dream were intimately connected.

[Note: Furthermore, the spiritual implications of this were that my friend had lost the “light” within himself by what he did. When I found out about the timing between this dream synchronicity and the physical events, it only added to the incredible quality of the event itself.

On one level I considered that the negative forces on the planet had scored a victory that night, and I was sorry that he lacked my own fastidiousness in self-perfection.

But on the other hand, each experience that we go through is exactly what we need at that moment, even if it is something that makes us sink deeper towards collapse before we can again rise.]


Now the second example is also from a dream. In this dream, I was aware that there was a woman at the bottom of a flight of stairs, and that she had a light that she was going to try to hit me with.

[Note: Again, note the interesting connections with a physical light – first in the real world and then this time in the dream world.]


I also knew that the woman would be wearing a clown wig. Actually no, I wasn’t told that, but when I did see her she was wearing a clown wig. But this other woman told me that if I got hit by the light, it would kill me, and I needed to be very careful.

So, it turned out that actually the light was very positive, and it was a part of myself that was very negative that was going to be “dying.” But in the dream I didn’t understand this; in the dream I was just fearing for my life.

[Note: Although I didn’t want to get into the adult reasons for this dream in my conversation with Mary, it essentially had to do with releasing a part of myself that still had an unhealthy focus on sexuality as a mode of gratifying the appetites of the carnal self.

The woman who told me to avoid the light had just recently said that she wanted to have quick and meaningless sex with me, and because of her physical attractiveness I was very, very excited. This “death of the appetite self” did indeed transpire over the course of many dreams, some of which are listed here on the site.]


So anyway, I had to walk through this hallway very fast, knowing that this woman was going to try to hit me with this light that might kill me.

And sure enough, as I walked through the hallway, I looked down at the bottom of this flight of stairs, and there is a woman with a clown wig, and she is trying to aim a camera at me that has a big, giant flash bulb on it.

I managed to run past her, just barely. It was very tight, and I barely made it. I woke up, and I had my eyes open. I was in the room, and I was dictating this dream into my tape recorder, which is what I do every morning.

With my eyes open, I said the following sentence: “I think I am getting to the head of what this is all about.” Now the idea there is the head. The very next part of the dream that I was about to talk about was when I had to cross the top of the hallway, and I would see the woman at the bottom of the staircase with the clown wig.

As soon as I said the sentence, “I think I am getting to the head of what this is all about,” very spontaneously and suddenly the same exact clown wig, with the rainbow colors, (and I do own one of those,) fell out of my closet from the top shelf, by itself!

M: Oh!

D: Right in front of my eyes, I watched this thing fall, and it scared the heck out of me when it first happened. I was very freaked out. Now that was a pretty amazing example.

My readings have also told me that I am not supposed to eat certain foods. And one of those things is that I can have salmon, which is a certain kind of fish.

[Note: The readings have advised that if I am to work as hard as I do, both on this computer and in doing psychic work for global readings as well as individual clients, I must supplement fish protein into my diet or I will burn out.

And it does indeed improve my vital energy almost immediately — either salmon or even moreso, raw sashimi-grade tuna. Sushi actually isn’t good, though, as it blends grains with meat, which is another dietetic no-no.

I do let myself have it sometimes anyway, as it is much less intense of a faux pas than other meats, dairy, sugar or white flour, which I almost never slip upon in any way.]


But I can only have [salmon] before a certain hour. If it is after about eight o’clock, then I am not really supposed to have anything really heavy, except for maybe fruit. That is about the only thing that I am supposed to have after about eight or nine o’clock at night.

So, it was late, and I had been working on the computer. I came into the kitchen, and I thought to myself, “Oh, well, maybe I will have some of this salmon anyway.”

I reached out and literally at the exact second that my first fingertip touched the dish that had the salmon inside, in the other room I hear a crash.

I went back into the other room and realized that the headphones that I had been using to transcribe my tapes with had fallen off of the place where I usually keep them on the desk, and they never usually fall from there, but they had fallen and hit the ground. They weren’t damaged, but I definitely got the message.

M: Uh huh.

D: Now most recently, I have this book shelf in my house, and it is between the kitchen and the bathroom. On the top shelf of the bookshelf, I had placed two pictures of me from when I was still very overweight, when I was your age.

[Note: These were loose photographs, not in frames of any kind, just the paper.]


Because when I was fifteen, I was 225 pounds, so I was a big kid. Now, I had purchased a Vegan cake from the health food store as sort of a rare treat.

Although normally I do not have anything with sugar of any kind, this particular kind did not have any refined sugar, so I figured that maybe just this once it would be okay. [Yeah, right.]

So I was thinking about eating the cake, and I walked from the kitchen into the bathroom as I was thinking this idea. By the time I got done going to the bathroom and I came back out, I had already made up my mind that I was going to have the cake, and I didn’t care whether they disliked it or not.

I walked back into the room, and I saw that one of these pictures was now lying face down on the floor. And that is understandable enough, because the wind of walking past the bookcase could have knocked it off.

Although it hadn’t happened before, it had been up there for several days and nothing had happened.

But then, all of a sudden I realized that the same exact picture that had been in the front on the top shelf, about a foot over from the left-hand side, just sitting there with its back resting against the books, had now migrated four shelves down and was sitting in the exact same position, face up, forward, and a foot over from the left, but four shelves down.

And that blew my mind. That just happened actually three days ago, and that was one of the ones that just shows you without any shadow of a doubt that there is something very, very strange going on.

M: Mm hm.

[Note: This most recent “threshold telekinetic” event proved to me that I don’t at all need to think that the best has already happened. Sure, you can be a skeptic and doubt the reality of these things, citing “coincidence.”

All I know is that when I am in my strongest moments, these “Siddhi powers”, as the Hindus refer to them, seem to pop out spontaneously. And their timing with physical events in my personal life in order to give them greater meaning is what makes them so fantastic, not just the events themselves.

There has always been a very special place in my heart for telekinesis, because to me in many ways it has seemed like the ultimate psychic power – the single most direct control over our physical illusion that anyone could have.]


D: Now another thing that happens to me, and maybe you have had this happen too. If this triggers any memories, then by all means tell me. I will often see repeating digits on a clock. Now last night was Thanksgiving, and I was invited over to a friend’s house from church to have Thanksgiving dinner with them.

On the way to her house, I had noticed that my speedometer was getting pretty close to being a series of repeating digits. But I just figured that it would be too impossible for the digits to be exactly coordinated with the exact time that I would stop at her house.

Even though this type of thing has happened hundreds of times before, I didn’t think it was possible, because the digits had already been aligned when I had first left my house.

It would say “33” and then in the tenths of a mile would be a “3,” and that was what it was like when I left. Or no, actually I think it was eleven- yeah.

On the bottom of the odometer where the gas is read, it was an 11. So it said “311” and then “1” in the tenths. Now I do keep the one that tells you the full amount of miles and the one that tells you how many miles it has been since you got your last gas tank synchronized [with each other.]

By synchronizing them, what I mean is that when the top one got into a bank of threes or something, then I would hit the button to zero out the counter at the bottom. So that way, whenever they go into alignment with each other, it happens at the same time, which makes it more dramatic and easier to notice.

Now there was a time where I wasn’t even trying to do it, where I would just hit it when I would get gas and it would happen anyway. But now I just keep them aligned. So basically, the one on the bottom, which you are supposed to zero out every time you get gas, will just go up to 1000, at which point it returns to zero.

So I left my house, and it was at “311” with a one in the tenths, and then the one on the top I believe was at “33” with three tenths. So, as I am driving towards her house, I am realizing that it is getting closer to being “3333” on the bottom and “5555” on the top.

But since it had already been aligned when I left my house and I didn’t take any wrong turns, I said, “No, it is just impossible. There is no way that it could be exactly 22.2 miles between our two houses. That would just be crazy.”

So, I didn’t even bother to check the speedometer when I got to her house. Now, we [had a nice long dinner and] talked, and it seemed completely random, but at a certain point it just felt right for me to leave.

M: Mm hm.

I left her house and went to my car. Before I even turned on my car, I looked at the odometer and realized that it said “5555 – 3333.” EXACTLY.

Now this was just last night. This is only the most recent one – I get these all the time. I stick the key in the ignition, I turn it on, and the clock says 11:11. And it STAYED on 11:11 for a whole minute.

So, it wasn’t just like in the middle of 11:11, it was at exactly the beginning. So my timing of leaving her house was down to within seconds of accuracy, and it was aligned with the odometer.

Now, once or twice when that happens, you think, “Okay, that is pretty interesting.” But I can’t tell you how many times I have been driving, and I seem to just drive on intuition. Sometimes I just say, “I don’t need directions, I know where I am going,” and I get a little bit lost.

But then I figure out where I am and I get back on track, and everything’s fine. Well, there have been so many times where I have just happened to get lost, and I end up driving it back into my driveway.

And at the exact second that I pull into the driveway, the numbers are perfectly lined up. Now this has happened literally hundreds of times.

Back when I lived in New York, I used to go to this place that was like a health food store. And there were some back roads near the health food store. Now this is going to blow your mind.

There were two different times in a row where there was a particular street corner, and when I got to that street corner both times, not only was my odometer aligned with a bank of fours and fives, or whatever it was, fours and twos, not only was my odometer was perfectly in alignment, but my clock hit it too. And it was at the exact same street corner both times!

Now there was another time where I looked at my odometer, and it had the digits lined up. I looked at the clock and the clock digits were lined up.

At that exact second, it started pouring rain, and the thought that had just gone through my mind right before that was, “You know, I really shouldn’t be so fearful all the time. I really need to just have more trust in the universe that things are going to work out.”

So I do feel that if anybody could understand what you are going through, it would be me, because I have had a lot of these things happen all my life — and I had some very strange things happening when I was your age.

So, I do think that this is something that you can use. I do think that this is something that you can make into a usable phenomenon. Because if you are already doing what you are doing right now, you should be able to do more.

Now I can tell you that, but I can also tell you this. I do speak to higher levels of spiritual beings, and that is why people are going to my website. Part of what I do is a telepathy with a higher intelligence, and I give them a vehicle by which they can speak to people.

Now they have told me, although I can’t learn to do what you can do already, as it is not within my capability to be able to do that consciously, they have told me that I can learn to have conscious control over electromagnetic devices.

(They tell me) that I can choose whether I want to have them mess up or not — that I can direct that with my thoughts.

I have not figured out exactly how to do that. I have asked them, and they have given me some answers that are a little bit strange [and vague] that I don’t quite understand yet. So I haven’t posted any of that on my website.

So, I guess the last thing I really need to say, and then if you have anything else you want to say before we conclude the interview, that is fine. Maybe if you want to, we can talk off of the tape.

M: Okay.

D: The last thing that I wanted to say in this interview that we are recording is that the main body of work that I am doing deals with a concept known as Ascension, which is obviously referred to in the Bible and so forth.

It is the idea that the fundamental energy that makes up physical reality is rising to a higher vibration or a higher level of frequency. It is the same thing as if you are humming a certain note, and then you hum a higher note, and you go from that lower note to a higher note in a smooth transition.

That is like rising the vibration, because that higher pitch means that the air is vibrating more times per second to make the sound than it would at the lower frequency. So there is energy that makes up our physical reality too, and that energy is rising.

When that energy does rise, there is supposed to be a point that is happening relatively soon, because of all the lore around 2000 and a variety of other reasons that we don’t really need to get into.

But supposedly there is going to be a point that we will reach where there is no turning back. The energy has to snap into that higher level completely, and that higher level is what we call the fourth dimension.

Now, once that happens, everyone should be able to do what you are doing right now and much, much more. And I believe that it is going to happen like that very quickly.

It is hard to tell, because it changes. It is based on us, based on us as a planet and whether we are ready. But it is going to happen at some point relatively soon in our future, that is for certain.

So, I really consider you to be a front runner, as you are a person who already is developing these abilities in advance. And therefore, once the transition has been made, you should be one of the first ones to really know how to use what your new abilities are going to be.

It is very exciting to me to hear your story, because I have read many things about people who claim to have levitated, or bending metal or moving things with their mind, but I have never actually been able to speak with one.

So, I just want to say for the sake of my readers that I am convinced that you are not lying to me, that you are telling me the truth. And therefore, I consider this to be a pretty remarkable case. So if there is anything else that you would like to say, now would be a good time to do it.

M: Okay. I remembered two things that you reminded me of when you were talking about the paper spinning. But I didn’t want to interrupt you, so I was waiting. It was probably the most interesting thing that has happened to me, and the one that would be the most convincing.

D: Okay.

M: Have you ever seen, they are basically kids’ toys. They are these light bulb-shaped kids’ things, and they have like a little windmill type of thing inside of it.

D: Oh, the radiometer, yeah!

M: Oh, I wasn’t sure if you would know what I mean.

D: I had a radiometer, actually, that I kept on the kitchen windowsill. I got it when I was only six years old, and my mother still has it on her windowsill in Florida. (Laughs)

[Note: A radiometer is a glass container with a vacuum inside of it, and a needle that supports a “windmill” with four small fins. The fins are colored white on one side and black on the other. When sunlight hits the radiometer, the white side of the fins repels the air molecules inside, but the black side attracts them, since it absorbs the light instead of reflecting it.

The tiny air molecules hitting the black side actually provide enough “kick” with their bouncing action that the “windmill” will start to spin. And if you put it in a really bright window, it can get going very fast indeed. Straight heat doesn’t do it, as only light heat will affect the two sides of the fins disproportionately.

This device would actually be an incredible opportunity to perform vacuum-sealed PK experiments as I previously described in this interview. If it moves, then you know it was PK, providing that it is in dim light and you didn’t rock the table.]


M: I loved mine.

D: Me too.

M: But, it kind of got messed up. I woke up in the night one time, because I heard this buzzing noise. It was at night, so there was no sunlight moving it. And it was spinning like CRAZY. And then it filled up about halfway with water.


M: Yeah. And then it fell off the table that I had it on.

D: It filled up with WATER?

M: Yeah, about halfway with water.

D: But there is a vacuum inside, it is completely sealed!

M: I know!

D: Okay, and it fell off of the table, and what happened?

M: And then it just stopped, and that was it. I showed it to a few people afterwards, too.

D: Do you still have it?

M: No, I got rid of it.

[Note: David discovered at the end of the conversation that the black and white fins apparently dissolved partially from the action of the water, and it essentially became gray and cloudy on the inside, not at all pleasant looking but quite a mess.

There might have been a very small amount of mold spores in the small amount of air still remaining inside, and this reacted with the water- which may or may not have been simple water at all, but possibly something with more organic compounds inside of it.

Perhaps she had materialized it as a form of ectoplasm from her own body proteins. She didn’t know any better, so she disposed of the murky mess, as it wasn’t important to her at the time to keep it.]


D: Was it still airtight once the water was inside?

M: As far as I know!

D: But the water didn’t disappear, it stayed in there.

M: Mm hm. Yeah, and I showed it to people and everything.

D: Wow. So you have witnesses who saw this thing filled up halfway with water.

M: Mm hm, when it was still sealed and everything.

D: Were they friends of yours, or family or both?

M: My mother, and a few of my friends.

D: Wow.

M: I ended up getting rid of it, though.

D: Well, I’ll bet you regret that now. (laughs)

M: I sort of feel bad about that. I also got rid of my journal – I was looking for that. I thought I had saved pages of it, but I guess I got rid of those too, when I was going through things.

D: Mmm. What was this journal?

M: What?

D: Remind me what this journal was, even though I know what you are talking about.

M: Oh, it was where I kept track of anything that happened to me. You know, like if I saw a clock, the time of day that it happened and details.

I would actually trace the shape of my ring and the different curves that they made in there, and I had pictures of those. But I got rid of that too. Because when I… I don’t know. I just decided that I didn’t really want much to do with it any more, and I got rid of most of those things.

D: I understand. You mentioned that you remembered two things, and the radiometer story is quite amazing.

M: Now that is the more interesting one, because it is the one that, you know, has proof and stuff with it.

D: How long ago did that happen?

M: That happened a little over a year ago.

D: Mmm. So you were about fourteen, okay. Well, that is pretty dramatic. What was the other example?

M: Well, it’s one time where I was just drinking a glass of water. I was all done with it, and so I had an empty glass with me, and then it filled up about a quarter of the way with water.

D: Right in front of your eyes?

M: I had actually walked across to the other side of the room, but no one else was around, and it filled up. And that was after the thing with the radiometer.

D: That’s very interesting. So it appears that not only have you had an out of body experience, you have also bent metal, you have also levitated yourself through an intense desire to move, and you have also performed action at a distance by breaking plates seemingly as though some other force was doing it.

You actually have also caused direct manifestations to happen into the third dimension, in both cases being water.

M: Mm hm.

D: Mmm!

M: And I did another thing with my cousin. We used to, for a while, not be able to play cards with each other, because we knew what cards the other person had.

D: Oh, wow!

M: And it made it really difficult to play any games.

D: Even though you couldn’t see the cards with your eyes.

M: Yeah. What I did was, we were in her bedroom and I turned out the lights. I stayed by the door and I cracked it open and left the hallway light open, so I could see things.

But she was on the other side of the room facing away from me, and I would look at pictures and try to get her to describe them to me. And she would get details, and it was really kind of cool. We used to do stuff like that.

D: There was an interesting synchronicity. I don’t know if you just heard that clap of thunder in the background on my side, but at the exact second that you said “turned the hallway light on,” there was a flash of lightning.

Now there has been a rainstorm going on while we have been talking, but that was the first flash of lightning that I have seen. And it was at the exact second that you said “turn the light on!” So somebody is listening to us!

M: Mmm… (laughs)

D: Okay, that sort of distracted me. Now you were playing cards, and you left the door open and the door was open, and what happened?

M: No, we weren’t playing cards then. But I had pictures of various things, and I was just trying to get her to say what was on them and most of the time she was right. She could describe details to me. She always knew the main colors of the pictures and things like that – so that was kind of cool.

D: Yeah. Most of my readers are already aware that when I was seven years old, I could guess numbers one through ten. My friends would gather into a huddle and guess a number one through ten, and I would get it right every single time that they did it. And I could do it with images as well.

M: I could only do it with my cousin, though.

D: Hmm. You guys have some sort of an affinity with each other.

M: Sort of. We were like best friends for a while there.

D: Hmm. Now, you know that water has a very specific meaning, in terms of the spiritual language of dreams. Dreams do have their own language, and there are certain things that we might think of as only being relevant to us here in the third dimension, but in higher realms they have very, very symbolic meanings. And water in dreams almost always means positive spiritual energy.

So, I am wondering if maybe these times when you manifested water were times when you weren’t angry and were in a better mood. Now in the first case with the Radiometer, that woke you up out of a sleep. So you obviously weren’t frustrated or upset when that happened.

M: No.

D: But you also claim that you weren’t frustrated or upset when you had the plates break, either.

M: No, I don’t think I was.

D: Okay. Did you have any particular feelings or emotions going through you when the glass of water filled up a quarter of the way?

M: I was thirsty!

D: Oh, you wanted to have more.

[Note: It is highly interesting that the key factor in many of her experiences is her emotions- either for better or for worse. She gets angry, her rings bend out or might even contract painfully. She stays up all night with insomnia, plates fall.

But on the other side, she wants water and boom- there it is. She wants to get up the stairs faster, and boom- she skips a few with levitation. The Ra Material says that one of the main characteristics of the fourth dimension is that our thoughts become things instantly.

That is the main reason for the huge surge in cancer cases in the 20th century, according to Ra, as we have been eating carcinogenic foods all along. The diets that the doctors are discovering that we need to eat are exactly what the spiritual forces have been saying all along as being necessary for us to raise our vibrations.]


M: Yeah. So, that may have had something to do with it, but I could have easily gotten up.

D: Interesting! Right, it wasn’t like you were out of water.

M: No. We have, uh, working faucets and everything. (Laughs)

D: Well, it is interesting, because there is a Biblical story about people on that journey when they had to pass the Red Sea and Moses parted the waters and stuff.

And one of the things that supposedly happened to them was that they had this food show up from heaven — they called it Manna from heaven, and it would show up spontaneously.

Now there is a quote from Jesus in John 14:12, where he says, “As I do these things, so shall you do them, and even greater things.” And so, you know, one of the classic “Jesus tricks” as I call it is manifesting food and water, or turning water into wine.

M: Yeah.

D: Now a lot of people think that Jesus was the only one who was supposed to be able to do this stuff. But all Jesus really did is to show us what we are capable of. So it is very interesting that even after you thought about it for that long, that it took me telling you some other stuff for you to remember those examples.

M: Yeah, I don’t really think about it as much anymore.

D: Well, that is a pretty remarkable case, because if you have witnesses… if you ever did really, really want to prove this or do research with a laboratory or something, the fact that you do have witnesses who saw this sealed glass container halfway filled with water, that is pretty amazing.

M: Yeah.

D: Now was it already filled with water when it was spinning?

M: No, it filled up with water after that.

D: Did you see it fill, or did it happen when you weren’t looking?

M: I saw it.

D: You saw it fill up by itself. Wow. What did it look like? Did the water spin, or did it just move in sort of like a straight line as it went up?

M: It just went up like how a glass fills up.

D: But I mean was the water spinning like a whirlpool, or was it smooth on the top?

M: No, it was pretty still.

D: Did it look like the water was coming in from the bottom? Like it was pumping up from the bottom?

M: Mm hm. But it happened really quick.

D: Was the Radiometer… oh, it happened really fast! I know that a radiometer has a sphere shape on the top. How far up that sphere? Did it get to like the middle of that sphere before it stopped?

M: It didn’t even make it up as far as the bottom of the sphere. It just, um…

D: Oh, so it was only like maybe the bottom.

M: Yeah, like the bottom half. It didn’t fill up like really, really far.

D: Right.

M: But if it is just like the bottom half, that is probably only like a third of the inside itself.

D: Right, I understand. So in terms of the actual sphere shape on the top, it only touched the bottom of it. Were the blades still spinning at that ferocious speed when that was happening?

M: No, that stopped.

D: Oh! Well, that is pretty miraculous. And the fact that you have witnesses definitely makes it look more like you are not just making this up, although I believe that you are telling me the truth anyway, because that is a pretty unique little story that is not…

M: Yeah, that’s probably the best one.

D: Well, it is pretty hard to top levitating up a staircase, but… that’s a good one, too. Have you ever read about Sai Baba?

M: I have heard the name, but I haven’t really read anything.

D: Okay. Well, he has control over this type of stuff. One of the famous things that he does is he manifests a sacred ash called Vibuti. He can manifest basically any small thing that somebody asks him for — he can get it. And there are many stories of him doing that.

There are stories of him actually disappearing and reappearing somewhere else, like actually teleporting himself. All kinds of stuff like that.

So, this is something that if you ever really wanted to pursue it, it would be interesting to see what you could do if you started to deliberately meditate and concentrate to try to make it happen.

M: I never tried, though.

D: Yeah, because it might work, and then it might scare you, right?

M: Well, sort of, that, and whenever I do try to, it doesn’t work. So, I don’t generally.

D: Oh, so you get frustrated if it doesn’t work, and you don’t want to try anymore.

M: (Laughs) I have sort of a short attention span!

D: (Laughs) Yeah! I understand.

Well, I think that is a good point for us to end the interview portion. We can talk a little bit more if you want to, but I am going to shut the tape off now.

I want to thank you, and is there any last message that you would like to give for the people who will be reading this, because there might be thousands of them reading this?

M: (Sighs) … I don’t know… I can’t think of anything now.

D: Well, I thank you for sharing this, and I am sure that your story is going to inspire many people — it has definitely inspired me.

And I just want to say once more that I do applaud your sincerity and I have no doubt in my mind that you are telling me the truth and that you are not simply making up some sort of a fantasy because you feel like you need to do it to make yourself feel better.

There is a lot more integrity going on than that, because the way that the friend that you and I both have found out about this was that you just casually mentioned it in conversation. Or no, wasn’t it that your rings bent while you were around this person?

M: No.

D: Oh, you didn’t wear them when…

M: Not that I really remember.

D: Right. But you didn’t tell this person for a long time.

M: No, not for a while.

D: Right. Because this is something that you are not quite comfortable about.

M: No, I don’t particularly tell people.

D: Right. Well okay, I want to thank you, and it will be interesting to see what people will say. Now if people have specific messages that they want me to get to you or something, would you like me to get them to you?

M: Oh, sure, that would be wonderful!

D: Okay, I will do that. Okay, thank you very much, and I will stop the tape right now.

D: Okay, we have now resumed recording, because she has just remembered something else. But we have very little time left on the tape, so go ahead!

M: Okay. Well, it may not be very important, but when my father was five years old, he told everyone that he had been abducted by aliens!

D: Really!

M: And I mean, that is kind of strange for someone… that would have been in 1959.

D: Back in 1959 your father said that.

M: Mm hm!

D: Wow, that goes all the way back to the time of the Betty and Barney Hill incident.

M: Yeah? I have never heard of that.

D: Well, that is the original abduction that supposedly happened. This African-American couple were both hypnotized separately, and they both remembered the same thing, and their stories correlated with each other.

M: Oh yeah! I have heard that.

D: What did your father say? That they had the big heads and the almond-shaped eyes?

M: Now I don’t know what he said. I forgot to talk to my aunt about that. Because she is older than him, so she can remember some of that.

But I just thought that was interesting, because my father was one of the most honest people in the world too, and I don’t think that he would make up something like that.

D: Right.

M: So I thought that that, I don’t know if that is important or anything.

D: Definitely very important. Very important.

M: It’s strange.

D: Because generally this type of stuff happens in families. And that does add a tremendous, well not tremendous but a very interesting new layer and a new twist on the story. So thank you!

M: Okay.

D: All right, because we are about to run out of tape space. If you find out any more information about that, let me know. If you get any more specifics from your aunt as to what he saw or what he experienced. Your father, is he still alive?

M: No, he died years ago. He had brain cancer.

D: Wow. Okay, well, that’s the end of the tape.

[tape cuts off]

(Note 11/28/99: EXACTLY 4:44 a.m. after transcribing and rereading to exactly this point!)