Friday 4 / 11 / 08

David’s appearance on Red Ice Creations was an instant classic. Now, at last, you can enjoy the transcript of this far-reaching discussion!     


Red Ice Creations Radio Interview


December 6, 2007



David Wilcock


[Note: Here we have a shot of David, rockin’ the hand down his pants like Al Bundy from “Married with Children”, from just after the time in December that he did this radio show — while staying at his mother’s house in New York.

In the absence of the video, this helps set the tone of where and when…]



Henrik:  Hello everyone and a warm welcome to Red Ice Creations Radio.

This is Henrik Palmgren and we are coming to you from Sweden, in Scandinavia. And wherever you might be, I‘m glad you‘re here and tuned in.

The website, as you know, is  — news from the world and beyond. On our site you‘ll also find our radio archive, newsletter, film material, our forum and much, much more. We also have a members‘ section on the website.

If you‘re a subscriber, you‘ll get full access to our radio archive, all our extended interviews, and you can take a look at our short films. And we are currently working on the follow-up to Longevity and the Grail. Also, in the process is live audio and video feed, and we‘re about to announce a date for our first screening soon. So stay tuned to; much is going on here.

All right. Today our guest on the program is David Wilcock. He‘s a lecturer, writer, filmmaker, and researcher of ancient civilizations, consciousness science, and new paradigms of matter and energy. I first heard David Wilcock through some information that was related to Edgar Cayce a few years ago. David is the co-author of The Reincarnation of Edgar Cayce?, and this in itself is a fascinating story. Maybe we can talk a little bit about parts of that later on in the program.

But right now David is involved in a film work or film project entitled Convergence that I would like to talk about. I also want to discuss David‘s work with the Enterprise Mission that Richard Hoagland is behind. And we‘re also going to talk about the three-part series, a musical soundtrack and content series that is based on the Convergence material, that is called Science of Peace.

So as you‘re here, we have a lot to talk about here today. I want to dive into it right away. So let‘s say welcome to our guest. Hi, David — great to have you here; thank you for coming on Red Ice Creations Radio.

David:  Well, thank you Henrik, for inviting me. I really appreciate it and I‘m honored to be here.

Henrik:  Excellent. I know that you‘re involved in a lot of different projects and have much to do, so I really appreciate you taking the time to be with us here today. And there‘s so much to say about your background:  all the different things you‘ve been through and been part of.

So I would actually encourage people right away to get on over to your website if they want to read some of your background. We have our excellent bio up there. The website is You can read that bio there and much, much more: articles and fascinating material up there for you.

So if you don‘t mind, David, I would like to kind of focus on what‘s going on now, you know?

David:  Sure, yeah.


Henrik:  So now let‘s begin with the film Convergence. I‘ve only heard a little bit about this, pieces here and there. What I would like to ask you here is when did you first get this idea?  When did you hatch the idea, you know, for this film project?

David:  Well, the original idea came about as a result of someone, who was a film producer, seeing me speak when I was in Los Angeles three years ago. And, actually, I was just meeting with him — his name is Billy Blake — about five minutes ago, right before we came on the air. He came over to my house. This is an on-going process.

You may not expect that it would take that long just to get to a finished screenplay, but what we‘re trying to do is something that‘s never been done in a film before. Typically this type of material that we‘re talking about — and I‘ll get into what that is — ends up in documentaries. And that‘s where we started for the first year.

The material that I go into when I‘m lecturing — and the material that‘s in the Science of Peace series, as you mentioned — essentially focuses on DNA. And I know that a lot of people who claim to be channelers or intuitives are focusing on DNA and acting as if it‘s a really strong essence of how we interface with spirituality.

The problem is that the whole field of channeling in general is kind of in a shambles. Very rarely do you ever see two channels who agree on anything, and there‘s a lot of divergent mythologies. Each one seems to have its own pantheon of good guys and bad guys.

Henrik:  Yeah.

David:  And, basically, you‘re also dealing with a lot of unscientific assumptions. If you just state something that you don‘t have any back-up for, like, you know, like, the one you hear all the time about Planet X coming in, or the one you hear about how your DNA is going to turn into twelve strands…

Henrik:  Sure, huh!

David:  You know, some people claim they‘ve photographed things in the sky that‘s Planet X. It turns out not to be.

You know a lot of people say, “oh, you‘re going to activate your DNA.” But they don‘t have any proof for it. Well, I did work as an intuitive counselor. I do have my own mystical contact. I do readings, or I used to do them, for clients. I stopped doing them in 2005. But I ended up funding myself, so I had a lot of time to do other things besides working, because the funding was coming from about 8 to 10 hours a week of work.

So the whole rest of the time I didn‘t watch TV, I didn‘t party, I didn‘t do any of this stuff; I was always reading and researching. So there are years and years of time in which I literally was doing 14 hours of research a day, for over 10 years. And that research all came together, and some of things that I found did start to focus on DNA.

And I found, especially from Russia, a whole bunch of intriguing research that shows that there is a consciousness field. Consciousness is not just something in the mind — it‘s actually the energy that goes into making matter.


Now, we have a ridiculous scientific belief right now that everything in the universe was created in one explosion at the beginning of time.

Henrik:  Sure.

David:  And ever since then it‘s just a static universe and it‘s just expanding — but everything was created. It‘s really preposterous.

We could talk about expanding earth theory, where, if you look at all the continents on the earth, you can shrink the earth to 55% of its current size just by removing the oceans. And all the continents fit together like a perfect little jigsaw puzzle!

Henrik: Yeah.

David:  And there‘s Neil Adams, a famous comic-book artist, who‘s got a website On his website, he‘s done movies where he shows, not only the earth expanding, but the moon, and Mars, and, you know, Ganymede…one of the moons of Jupiter. It‘s amazing!

Henrik:  Yeah, really, I think I saw this actually — a YouTube clip, I think, of Earth expanding.

David:  Oh, oh, yes.

Henrik:  It‘s amazing stuff.


David:  Oh, yeah. Now let‘s just talk about that one anomaly for one second, okay?  Because if that is true — and you can look and see the proof yourself — where the cracks line up perfectly as you shrink things down.

Henrik:  Sure.

David:   That proves right off the bat that physical matter can be created from apparently nothing, because we can‘t see or measure any apparent energy source flowing into these planets that would be sufficient to cause them to have such massive increases in their physical sizes.

So that actually is a proof that establishes a base reality that we can work off of: that matter as we know it has to be drawing off of some hidden energy source in order to sustain itself.

The earth is a perfect example. We have been led to believe, without question, that the interior of the earth is made of iron.

The only reason why they say that, basically speaking, is because iron conducts magnetic fields. They think: “Well, the earth has a magnetic core so, therefore, it‘s gotta have an iron core — period ”.  

Henrik:  Yeah. Hmph.


David:  This is ridiculous. There‘s actually plenty of evidence to show — especially from Russia, where they call them “vacuum domains ” or “natural, self-luminous formations ”. Lot of people might call them UFOs without realizing that, in some cases, when you see these balls of light, it‘s just another natural physical phenomena that our scientists don‘t really acknowledge.

But you have these balls of light that have very strong magnetic fields. They can be attracted to or reflected from other sources, as well as having a bunch of other strange properties, including things like anti-gravity and even consciousness. They seem to respond to peoples‘ thoughts.

Henrik:  Hmm, really?

David:  So this is what‘s really powering the earth‘s magnetic field. These balls of light are a much larger form of what‘s inside the atom, really.

Henrik:  Right, you know, I just want to squeeze this in:  I‘ve heard theories about…that, actually, gravity is an effect of that — the earth is expanding. What are your ideas about that?

David:  That‘s absolutely correct. The earth is expanding as a result of an aetheric energy flow, where aether is a good name for this hidden energy. You can call it “hyper-dimensional energy ”, or whatever, and the Russians call it “torsion fields ”, but aetheric is a classic word, so we‘ll stick with that for now.

So there‘s an aetheric energy that flows in to make matter what it is. In mainstream science you can find plenty of documentation on dark matter, dark energy, zero point energy, quantum field, quantum fluctuations, quantum vacuum, et cetera, et cetera. Virtual photons are another example


Anyway, you‘re dealing with an aetheric energy flowing into the earth to create it, and, then, some of it also flows back out — that‘s an important point:  it‘s a bi-directional flow. If you have two people in a tug-of-war and one of them pulls harder than the other, the one who‘s pulling harder than the other is going to get the rope to move towards them.

Henrik:  Sure.

David:  But you have forces on both sides, so the actual movement is a lot less than the force that‘s being applied. It‘s just that the movement is only what you see.

So gravity is only what we see of two forces that are fighting against each other. When you think about it that way, you realize that the actual amount of energy flow is much stronger.

In fact, it‘s the back-flow from the earth back out that you could call the “anti-gravity force ” or the “levity force ” as some people call it. If that back-flow wasn‘t there, the flow of energy going into the earth is probably so strong it would crush us flat instantaneously.

Henrik:  Geesh! Hmmm.

David:  So it‘s important to understand that gravity is a dynamic balance of two opposite forces and, the only reason why we get pushed down, is because the one that‘s going into the earth is stronger than the one coming back out.

Henrik:  Hmmm, interesting.

David:  So that answers your question.


Henrik:  Hmmm, very interesting. You were talking a little about the Russians, of course, also, and some of their amazing work that they‘ve done. I‘ve read a few reports on the connection between consciousness and the DNA and how that affects everything from words and colors and intention, you know?

David:  Oh, yeah.

Henrik:  Is this the kind of material that is in your film, Convergence?

David:  Well, um, that‘s not an easy question to answer. The Convergence film is actually the first in a trilogy — and we may even do more than that, but that‘s what we have planned so far. And some of the things I‘ve already been telling you are things we have to work up to.

What we‘re basically trying to do in the first film is to establish a foundation that the average world population — who‘s not necessarily metaphysically-inclined — can have as a cornerstone. So you can imagine what it‘s like — and I‘ve done it many times — when you have this mountain of information and then you try to go in there and find one specific thing to pull out and build a story around as a string of information.

There are Earth energy vortexes in the movie — we do have some of that; but we‘re not even talking in the first movie about the fact that this consciousness energy is also what makes matter. In the first film, what we‘re really trying to do is simply establish the fundamental reality of consciousness as a non-local energy field.

And, more specifically — and this is where it dovetails with the Russian studies —  how consciousness interfaces with the DNA molecule. The DNA acts almost as like an antenna for what really amounts to our mind, as an energy field. Here‘s an interesting thing that we were going to put in the script, and I don‘t think it did make it in the latest re-write.

Think about a near-death experience, right? Somebody goes brain dead. Their brain is not showing any brainwave activity. And yet, in many, many instances, they continue to have a fully-cognitive process; they continue to think; they continue to react; they see the people in the room that are trying to resuscitate their bodies.

They, oftentimes, start going through the dark tunnel with the light at the end, and they meet their relatives who have deceased, etc, etc. It‘s the same old story everybody tells.

The point of the matter is that during that time, they have an unbroken perception of consciousness — but the brain is showing no electrical activity at all!

Henrik:  Hmmm!

David:  And so, that is one of the many ways in which we can establish that the mind is non-local. The mind is only superficially tethered to the brain. The brain is actually more of a relay-station for the mind.

It gets even more interesting when we see that the mind interfaces with us on every single cell in our bodies.

So, since it is believed by mainstream science that the DNA molecule contains all the code to build the whole body, the DNA therefore would contain the code to build the whole brain. Therefore, the brain is non-locally contained in each DNA molecule.

Henrik:  I see, yeah.


Henrik:  I guess we almost could say that if we compare to a — for instance, take a computer, and all the parts of a computer are totally useless unless you turn the energy on and you can actually start using it, right?

David:  That‘s exactly right. We have the hardware. We need to power it and then use the software. And the software is actually, you could say, the energy body.

The power is this interface that happens between our reality and a parallel reality.


That‘s another very complicated subject. There‘s actually a — you could call it a “hyper-dimensional reality domain ”. We have a parallel reality that we are constantly intersecting with.

Henrik:  Okay.

David:  And it‘s a very strange thing to contemplate because space and time are inverted in this reality.

In our reality, we have three dimensions of space, which we can move around in freely, and we have one dimension of time, meaning that time is essentially a stream that pushes us forward in time. It doesn‘t really move around.

If you actually get into Relativity Theory from Einstein, he says that space and time are a fabric, and one cannot exist without the other.The two are fundamentally intertwined.

What this eventually gets to — and the Russians have done amazing work on this stuff — is that our notion of time is as primitive as the dug-out canoe.

We are so behind the times — pun intended — in terms of how time really functions. Time is, in fact, an entire three-dimensional domain. And we can only perceive the reflections of it.

This is much in the same sense as that classic Flatland analogy that probably all your readers have heard. If you live in a two-dimensional flat plane and then a sphere pushes through your plane, all you see is a circle that starts as a dot, and then gets wider and then gets narrower.

Henrik:  Sure, yeah.

David:  In much the same way, time to us appears to be just something that just keeps moving forward. We don‘t realize, for example, that time is cyclical:  there are cycles of time that overlap each other and, actually, have influences on our consciousness to such a strong degree that very similar events happen in each iteration of the cycle.

The cycles can actually be mapped out in terms of the Ages of the Zodiac, which is a subdivision of the Precession of the Equinoxes. This is the 26,000 year cycle that many ancient cultures would document in various mythologies. It is the cycle that makes the Earth wobble on its axis like a top, slowly wobbling in the opposite direction as it spins.

Now that cycle appears to be not just something affecting the Earth, like the mainstream would tell you. You can find blueprints of the exact same cycle in the activity of the Sun. It also appears to be related to energy sheets, essentially, that we‘re moving through in the galaxy, which are causing that rotation in the first place.

Henrik:  Very interesting.


David:  When we‘re dealing with cyclical time, I have a book on my site about what‘s called Cyclology. It‘s written by a Frenchman named Michel Helmer. He did some phenomenal research.

First of all, if you take the Precession and you chop it down into twelve chunks, they‘re 2,160 years in length. Many people say, “Oh, the Age of Aquarius, right?  We‘re moving into the Age of Aquarius ”.

Henrik:  Sure, yeah.

David:  Well, each of these Ages are 2,160 years long. The last one was the Age of Pisces. You have to ask yourself: “if this is just an arbitrary thing, why would the ancients have put so much energy into it? Why would they bother to take astrology signs which, typically, only take one month to occur, and then blow them out over the course of 2,160 years?”

Well, Michel Helmer went back and looked at Roman history. Then he advanced Roman history 2,160 years ahead in time. He discovered that the precise nature of events in Roman history were playing out again in American history!

Henrik:  There we go, huh!

David:  And this is like wars lining up with wars, even the nature of who is in power. How did the government run?  What kind of conspiracy happened? 

Watergate is in there. Jimmy Carter is in there — he was Emperor Cato of Rome…

Henrik:  [laughs]

David: …all kinds of very strange things like that.

Henrik:  Uh-huh, wow, sheesh!

David:  The biggest cycle event, of course, is 2012: the conclusion.

Henrik:  Oh, yeah.

David: When you start realizing that these cycles exert such a strong effect on our behavior: that 2,160 years apart from each other, the same events keep repeating themselves in history — the end of the cycle is really where all the magic is. There are very strong effects that can happen.

Now we have a scientist in the U.S., Dr. James Spottiswoode. This is another thing I was going to put in the film but we just didn‘t have the time for the screenplay to do it.

Dr. Spottiswoode analyzed over 20 years of ESP studies — and this was remote viewing, Zener cards, ganzfeld studies, etc. etc — in which ordinary people were tested for how psychic they were.

And what he was looking for was a universal factor in time that affected how psychic somebody was. Maybe if the sun is at high noon, something about that alignment might make you more psychic, for example.

He couldn‘t find anything in the ordinary day that would determine how psychic somebody was. However, as soon as he looked at the Earth‘s position relative to the center of the galaxy, which is called “sidereal time ”, he found that the center of the galaxy‘s position has a huge effect on how psychic we are.

So when you‘re at 13 hours, 30 minutes sidereal time — and you can go on the internet and look for a sidereal time calculator and find out where it is in your area — when you‘re at 13 hours, 30 minutes, your psychic ability skyrockets to 400% more effective than normal.


Henrik:  Alright!  And why is that?

David:  It‘s telling us that where we are in the galaxy has a direct impact on how our consciousness functions, and how much of this higher consciousness ability will come through.

[It appears that there is a beam of energy from the center of the galaxy that enhances the vibrational speed of the energy our minds are actually using to think with. This, in turn, accelerates our intelligence and higher cognitive abilities such as ESP.] 

We also have a strong field effect on each other.

I know I‘m going off in a whole bunch of different directions here. To get back to the core of your original question, this first film doesn‘t go into half the stuff I just told you.

What we‘re trying to do is establish the fundamental reality of the consciousness field, so that we can start to open the door on these other discussions, which will then come out in documentaries and other films later.

We‘re establishing a baseline; we‘re establishing a fundamental that we can work from that proves, with great redundancy, that consciousness is connected to DNA, flows through DNA, and that it actually is a non-local field that we‘re all sort of co-creating moment by moment.


Henrik:  Hmmm, very interesting. You mentioned so many things there that I would love to go back to and address a little further. What I would like to ask you is this: why target the mainstream? Why is it necessary, at this particular time, to kind of get this information out there to the masses, as it were?

David:  It‘s probably just a subjective emotional decision on my part that I would like to make an attempt to do that. It may not work, but it probably will.

My co-executive producer on this project, Billy, is an ordinary guy who has not really experienced synchronicity. I would imagine that most of the people listening to your show are having synchronicity erupt into their lives.

As we all know, we‘re being acculturated to believe in a physical world in which we‘re alone here and things happen randomly that are damaging and destructive. The Holocaust is the most common disaster that is brought up. People say, “Look at these terrible things that can happen — there‘s nothing you can do about it, so you basically have to protect yourself and defend yourself.”

That leads to the idea of total separation: that you‘re alone, you‘re disempowered, and nobody‘s there to help you or protect you. It‘s all or nothing, and you‘re in it for yourself.

Synchronicity is what‘s happening where people‘s lives are starting to have intrusions of a transcendent force.

Let‘s say you‘re sitting there and you‘re reading something provocative in your book. You say “I wonder what time it is? ” You look up at the clock and it‘s exactly 11:11, or 3:33, 4:44, something like that.I know one person who would find pennies on the ground at very, very poignant moments.

Now my friend, Billy, as I said, has not experienced this most of his life — but the other day he was going to eat some hot dogs. He had them frozen in the freezer and he was trying to break them apart with a knife, but they wouldn‘t come apart.

He couldn‘t figure it out, because in all the years he‘s been eating hot dogs, this had never happened.

Then he has this thought: “I wonder if I‘m being told I shouldn‘t eat these hot dogs? ”

Henrik:  [laughs]

David:  Right?

Henrik:  Yeah.

David:  You see, these are the kind of silly stories that you can tell are true, because this is how it really happened.

Henrik:  [laughs] Yeah. Oh, sheesh.

David:  Right?  So he says, “I wonder if I shouldn‘t be eating these hot dogs? ” 

Henrik:  Uh-huh, uh-huh. [laughs]

David:  Next thing you know, he hears a knock on the door upstairs. “Package! ”

He goes upstairs to get the package. The package is from Nutrisystem, and it was a whole bunch of health food he had specifically ordered so he would start having a healthier diet.

Henrik:  There we go!  Hmm, that‘s nice.

David:  And he calls me up and says, “Do you think this means I shouldn‘t eat hot dogs? ”

Henrik:  [laughs]

David:  “Uh, yeah! ”

Henrik: That‘s probably right, yeah, right [laughs].

David:  Or at least decrease how often you eat them.

Henrik:  [laughs] Yeah, exactly. Um, so…

David:   A lot of people are starting to have these things happen, and they don‘t realize it  is happening to just about everybody. So if we can reach people who are sort of on the fence, where they‘re kind of believing in this stuff, but they‘re still not believing in this stuff, then we’re in good shape.

You can see that it‘s a social trend. You look at all the big multinational corporations and their media:  everything is going metaphysical. You‘ve got “Heroes ” on television; that‘s a very popular television program.

More and more movies coming out with metaphysics in the themes. You know, there‘s that Will Smith coming out, “I Am Legend ”, another End Times/2012-type of movie.


Henrik:  Sure, sure.

David:  Everybody‘s getting into this. If we can help nurture that, then it may have a similar effect as a film like The Secret did or Bleep, if not greater.

That‘s basically why we started out reaching out to the common person. If the average person figures out what we‘re talking about, it could trigger a social revolution akin to the discovery of powered flight with the Wright Brothers.

We are talking about that kind of level. If we can break the scientific stranglehold that has separated spirit from science, we have made a huge accomplishment.

This separation goes all the way back to the formation of the Catholic Church. Then with the Reformation and the Renaissance, the church basically said, “Okay, you guys work on science and we‘re gonna do God ”…

Henrik:  [laughs]

David: … ”and as long as the two don‘t cross, then we‘re gonna be fine; we won‘t have any problems ”.

Henrik:  Sure.

David:  That artificial division has maintained its integrity all this time. You have scientists who are working all week to disprove God‘s existence, and then go to the church to pray to Him on Sunday!

Henrik:  [laughs]  Sheesh, oh, it‘s all messed up. You were speaking about time earlier, again, and synchronicity. Is this what it‘s all about? Is this the right time? Is it a good time right now to actually bring this into the mainstream and tutor people in this kind of thinking? 

David:  Oh, yeah!

Henrik: You know, heighten their awareness?


David:  Let’s start getting into fractals and Chaos Theory. The easiest way to begin to talk about this is the classic analogy of the flap of a butterfly‘s wings on one hemisphere causes a hurricane on the other.

It gets a lot more complicated than that. There have been studies in Chaos Theory that are most easily duplicated by looking at piles of sand as they form.

If you‘re watching a pile of sand form in an hour-glass, you may notice that, periodically, a little mountain of sand will collapse. Then, after it collapses, it quickly rejuvenates back into its original shape, but it will be higher — you‘ll see an avalanche on one side and it comes back.

Well, here‘s what happens — and this has actually been modeled in very powerful supercomputers where every single particle of sand is a separate part of the program.

Up until a certain point, you can tell exactly where each particle is going to be, and where it‘s going to go. And you can predict its behavior and its movement.

But right before the avalanche happens, there is something called “criticality ”. And criticality is where the system gets thrown into chaos. It’s the final tipping point before the avalanche. And, when you get criticality, you get something called “self-organizing criticality ”.

This is very strange, and we still don‘t have an explanation for it in any mainstream sense. When the sand pile is about to collapse, you cannot predict how it‘s going to collapse or where it‘s going to go. All you know is that it‘s going to change. Almost every agent in the system is going to move.

A lot of times we discover that one or two agents in the entire system become the leverage point for the whole change to occur.

Henrik:  Hmmm.

David:  It can happen on a very small level, but, basically, we also know that once it changes, it evolves intelligently into a more-organized structure. Sand particle studies are just the most mundane way to look at it.


It becomes a lot more interesting when you look at it terms of a society or an economy. And the key again — and this is where it starts to cross over into the so-called “Illuminati ”, or the negative elite, the world leaders with their philosophy of “Order out of Chaos ”…

Henrik:  Sure. Sure.

David:  There is some truth to that. When the system becomes highly de-stabilized, there will be random shifts that suddenly self-organize into higher levels of complexity.

And that‘s one of the reasons why I tell people, “Don‘t get all hung-up about an economic collapse ”. I know they‘re saying the economy‘s about to collapse, or whatever.

Henrik:  Uh-huh, yeah.

David:  If there is a weakening of the economy, it‘s only going to re-organize at a higher level of criticality. It will re-structure itself very rapidly. We have an on-going medium of exchange and communication that‘s so robust now that it‘s not going to be like before, when you have single countries that collapse and it doesn‘t affect anything else — they don‘t bounce back very quickly.

The reason why I bring this up is that you‘re absolutely right — this is the moment. People are starting to throw doubts and questions on everything they have assumed to be true.


We‘ve lived in a lie. We‘ve lived in a world that gives you a media that tells you “Don‘t look at the man behind the curtain. Don‘t think there‘s any problem. Your government is your family. Your government is like your father and mother. They will take care of you, and they will protect you from the bad man ”.

Well, the “bad man ” IS the government, right? When you start seeing that, it throws into question all these assumptions you‘ve had.

Most people basically want to live with the trust of a child. They want to just have their life, earn money, drive their car, watch TV, and come home on the weekend to hang out with their children.

Henrik:  Sure.

David:  They don‘t really want to think too much. They don‘t want to work too hard. They expect that life is a private phenomenon. They‘re not really that integrated with their society; they‘re essentially separate entities.

I know I‘m generalizing horribly. I know in Europe and, I‘m sure, Sweden in particular, and other countries it‘s less like that. But in America it‘s very isolated. You can live right next door to someone and have no idea who they are. It happens all the time.

So, we live in a very isolated culture. The western world, in general, has a lot of separation.

Now there are more and more outside nudges telling us we need to pull together, and that we‘re not doing it right.


Global warming is another terrific example, right?

Here you have the very basic nature of your livelihood, the Earth, apparently turning on you; making your life dangerous; making your life unpredictable. Depending on where in the world you are, you will have different potential problems. There‘s no safe place on the earth right now.

People ask me, “Oh, where‘s the safety land? ”  Well, guess what? You can‘t have one, because everywhere is experiencing climate change.

You get flooding, ice storms, hurricanes, tornadoes, mudslides, wildfires — you name it.

I just had a fire out my window two times in a row in the last two months.

Henrik:  Oh, yeah, the big….

David:  I experienced it myself! 

Henrik:  Yeah, sheesh. [laughs]

David:  So this starts to say “Okay, are we doing it right or are we making a mistake? ”

The ultimate point our film is making is that all of these phenomena are the result of our own states of consciousness — and our state of consciousness directly interacts with these phenomena.

In our first movie, we don‘t really go into how our consciousness affects global warming. We express how each ordinary person, and their level of either fear or trust, has a huge overall impact on war and disharmony in the world.

Global meditations actually have a very profound effect — and that has been scientifically proven. Our goal is to get people to realize that if they can exist in a state of harmony in their own mind, day after day, and decrease the clutter, a field-effect is being sent out into the Cosmos and the Earth that affects everyone else‘s behavior in a very positive way.

So a lot of people are doing spiritual work. They‘re trying to be very enlightened and very evolved. It‘s important to remember that this is not just something you‘re doing for yourself. Even if you don‘t think you‘re having any effect, it‘s very important that you keep going, because you have a huge effect on the field.


Henrik:  Hmmm.

David:  And that‘s what my Science of Peace series is about; that‘s what my film is about. It‘s all focusing on that basic point: that we have much more power over these events than we would  ever believe we do normally.

Henrik:  And you‘re also saying that this chaos you‘re describing, like the Illuminati, global warming, or even fear of global warming, end of the world-scenario films, whatever — this chaos is a catalyst to wake people up at this particular time, right?

David:  Exactly right. Whatever comes out after the little avalanche is much more organized and much more evolved than what we had before — just like the little sand pile that has re-structured to a higher level.

That‘s what the Earth is going through now. It doesn‘t happen as rapidly as it would inside an hourglass of sand, but it‘s happening now. One way you could define 2012 is like the arbitrary focal point for where all of this is going, and when it will happen.


Henrik:  And uh…

David:  Actually a lot more complex than that — that‘s just one way to look at it.

Henrik:  Sure. Do you believe that 2012 in itself is actually some form of convergence? 

David:  I obviously do. It‘s not as simple as anything I‘ve explained so far. What we‘re ultimately dealing with the basic nature of matter, energy and consciousness shifting — and that gets into harmonics. Let‘s talk just a little bit about that so that we can set up that point.

If you look at the work of Dr. Hans Jenny —

Henrik:  Oh, Cymatics.

David:  Cymatics, yeah. I think you guys have written about that. He talks about how you can vibrate some water with little particles of dust in it — a milky water called a “colloidal suspension. ” The little particles are called “colloids.” You vibrate this water at pure sound resonances, like the white keys on the piano. 

When you do that, you discover that instead of the water just being milky-white, the particles start lining up into little geometric shapes. Depending on what tone you play, that determines what shape you get. And the higher your pitch goes, the more complicated the shape is and the more beautiful, geometrically interconnected it is.




They almost look a little like snowflakes when you get into the higher pitches.

Now this not a phenomenon that‘s like a “Gee-whiz! Look at that, isn‘t that neat?” This is actually the basis of the universe, and how matter is constructed.

You can think of matter like [a crystal that has formed from a fluid medium.] Have you ever played that game where you get a jar and fill it with water that‘s got tons and tons of sugar in it? Then if you hang a string down into that water, what happens if you let it sit there for a while?

Henrik:  Actually I‘ve never done this, so please explain. [laughs]

David:  You grow rock candy. It‘s called rock candy.

Henrik:  Oh, I see. Okay, hmmm.

David:  Sugar crystals will start growing on your string. The water will try to return to water. It‘s trying to get rid of all that sugar you put in there. So the sugar crystallizes.

Henrik:  Oh.

David:  And then you pull it out and you have a treat you can give to a child.

Henrik:  [laughs]

David:  You could think of physical matter as a crystal that‘s coming out of this fluid. And the fluid is something we usually can‘t see and we can‘t measure, because it flows through what I call “time/space ”.

Time/space is this parallel reality that‘s on the other side, where time is three-dimensional and space is only one-dimensional. If you pop over there — and that‘s what Stargate travel is all about — you can move around physically. You can move ten feet forward, but you might move ten years in our reality.

In the ancient legends of the fairy circles, you have to go into the fairy ring and then come back out the same way. You don‘t see the fairies until you go inside the fairy circle.

Once you go into the fairy circle, then you find yourself in this parallel reality and you see all these little people. They really do exist in other planes. Then, if you actually leave the fairy circle in a different way than you went in, you may time-travel when you come back out.  

Henrik:  Geesh!

David:  Now there‘s actually a bunch of ancient medieval legends of this that you can read about. This is based on a very real phenomenon.


There‘s certain times and certain places on the Earth where these interdimensional crossing points will happen. The ancients were very much aware of this. So guess what they did — they built all these structures on those exact points!

Henrik:  Hmmm.

David:  Like Stonehenge, the Great Pyramid, Nan Madol or Easter Island.

These are structures that have a technology. It‘s just a technology that we‘ve totally lost track of. But at the right time of the year, if you get the right planetary alignment and so forth, you get a temporary crossover into time/space.

Henrik:  So this is a natural kind of Stargate? 

David:  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And it‘s a great secret that has been kept from us by the people who know about it and have been using it.

The ancient technology has then interfaced with technology derived from crashed UFOs. [Anti-gravity, free energy and time travel] are actually not as difficult as they sound.


So the basis of all this, again, is you have these two inverted realities: you have space/time and time/space. There‘s a constant energetic flow between the two.

The energy flow is essentially like a fluid. We only see the crystals of the fluid. Matter is like a crystallized form of this fluid.

Now the crystal, as I originally mentioned, goes back to harmonics, like Dr. Jenny… the Cymatics thing. If you vibrate the fluid to a certain frequency, you get a certain geometry. What‘s the shape of table salt?  Everybody knows that:  they‘re little cubes.

So, you know, sodium and chlorine come together and they form a little cube. Even at the smallest, tiniest level, that‘s what it looks like.

The cube is one of these basic geometric shapes you get by vibrating a fluid at a certain sound frequency. So, actually, all of physical matter, everything we have around us, is the result of a frequency.

That also means that if you amplify the frequency, the structure of the matter will change. You can actually transform matter.


Here‘s another thing — I‘m actually giving you some exclusive stuff I‘ve never said publicly before.

Henrik:  Sounds good.

David:  The science of alchemy is based on the same principle of the fairy rings and these other things I‘ve been telling you about, like Stonehenge and so forth.

You can get lead to turn into gold, if you do it at the right time of the year, in the right place.

Henrik:  Really?

David:  But it‘s extremely dangerous…it‘s very, very volatile. It‘s very likely you could have an explosion. When you‘re dealing with this, you‘re talking about gating in a tremendous amount of energy from the other reality.

As many people have discussed, Zero-Point Energy is extremely powerful. We only have such a tiny teaspoonful of this energy around us that we‘re using. It‘s just astonishing.

So, alchemy is another one of those things where if you have the right time, the right planetary alignment and you‘re on the right part of the Earth‘s grid system, as it‘s called, then yes — you can basically get the harmonics of a particular piece of matter to shift into something else.

And it also goes into the warp phenomenon. Think about the Bermuda Triangle, right?

Henrik:  Uh-huh.

David:  That‘s a classic example. You have a natural vortex on the Earth. When you go through it at certain times, shifts will happen. At one point the Bermuda Triangle area was actually above water. And that‘s part of where the ancient civilization Atlantis was located. That is also real.

In fact, I just updated one of my books recently about Paulina Zelitsky, who did the work around Cuba with sonar and with a submarine. She literally found Atlantis down there.

Pyramids, Stonehenges, Sphinxes, all this writing and inscriptions on all these stones — giant stones. She sold the footage to National Geographic. They wrote one article about it on the Web in May 2002. They never made a television show about it.


Henrik:  [laughs]

David:  And, for whatever disappointing reason, Paulina is still holding onto all the footage from the submarine that actually shows the pyramids, shows the Stonehenge, shows the ancient writing.

Henrik:  Really?

David:  There‘s this Cuban university that‘s actually analyzing the writing. They say it looks somewhat like hieroglyphics, somewhat like Greek. They can‘t quite make out what it says because it‘s not related to any language that we know.

Henrik:  Geesh, what…

David:  Now it‘s all down there, man, and in fact if you look at the same chapter — this is in my first book Shift of the Ages on my website

I believe it‘s Chapter 14, where I wrote about this stuff.




You will find that I was contacted by a woman who worked for the military, the U.S. military, at Guantanamo, which is…our base in Cuba.

And she started to talk to these Navy SEAL guys, who were telling her that they had found Atlantis down there under the water. It was all around the whole continent of Cuba — the whole little island of Cuba.

Henrik:  Right.

David:  And what they found was working technology — there was stuff down there that was still operational. And this is just off the chart, so she didn‘t think any of it was real. It wasn‘t until she heard me talking about Paulina Zelitsky that she realized, “Oh, my gosh, these guys were telling me all this stuff! I thought everybody was nuts!”

Henrik:  Huh.

David:  But they said, “Yeah, you know, we‘re going down there; we‘re finding all these artifacts ”.

They were bringing up crates — gigantic crates — every day. These crates were filled with artifacts that they were shipping away. They were afraid that if the rest of the world found this stuff, it might be misused.

Henrik:  Huh. Do you have any contact with her, and do you know why she doesn‘t release the material, like on a DVD or something?

David:  She has a child who is in the military and is concerned about him being damaged in his career, or possibly being threatened, as a result of her coming forward. So it‘s one of those cases where I would have really liked for her to give a testimony, but a lot of times, when you get the real deal, they‘re not willing to go public.

And it‘s just an unfortunate reality. And I have actually posted almost all of her e-mails, except for a few things that I had to withhold because they were personal; but in my book, Shift of the Ages, you can find that.


Henrik:  Oh, excellent. Hey, David, I just want to mention here we don‘t have that much time left here in the first segment. Time just…

David:  Oh, okay.

Henrik: …flies by. I just want to give you the opportunity to talk a little bit about The Science of Peace before we run out of time here, you know?

David:  Thank you. I appreciate that. As you may know, it is the primary way in which I‘m able to support everything I do. I am reliant on public donations / subscriptions / orders in order to keep going.

A very interesting phenomenon [of a surge in publicity] happened on Coast to Coast when I got on with Art Bell, and George Noory. As a result of that, I was contacted by someone who wanted a reading. Then, when he talked to me on the phone, he said “I also want to do music with you.”

I‘m thinking to myself, “Okay, well, everybody has a proposal; everybody wants something.” But, then, as he kept talking, he said he had nine Grammy awards. That very much changed my attitude. [laughs]

Henrik:  [laughs] Okay!


David:  I never expected somebody of that caliber to have found me. His Grammys were in recording engineering, but he also has one for a guitar solo he played in one particular song. And, he‘s metaphysically-inclined! He‘s read the Course in Miracles, which is a very interesting body of revealed teachings.

We got together and I delivered a lot of the same material that I‘ve been telling you on this show in the Science of Peace material. I went into a lot more detail about the DNA stuff and all these different scientific studies that show how you can access your DNA: how it relates to consciousness, and how consciousness is a unified energy field.

This is a very important point: this is really a unique product, in the sense that we constructed an entire body of music for the sole purpose of driving the experience of the words home.

So, even though you can read something that I wrote or hear me on the radio, this is where we actually built a soundtrack around the information. It not only is a wonderful piece of music, but it actually creates an organic, living experience. As you listen to this and you take the information in, the music helps you process it and really bring it into a spiritual level.

We were originally going to release them as compact discs, but we decided to make them mp3s for a variety of reasons. [You can burn CDs easily from the mp3s if you want them, and you can instantly fill your order and get the product right now.] There is no DRM on them, so you could theoretically share them with others, but we ask that you not do that.

They‘re not write-protected or anything.

It‘s a great way for people to help support us, and it‘s right there on the front page of; you can click on that link.




I think one of the most powerful things we have is in the third section. There‘s a long meditation, over 25 minutes long, which is basically designed to help clear all the spiritual obstructions you have to hold you back from your DNA expanding, so you can access higher consciousness.

That‘s the crown jewel of the whole thing. Everything builds up to the third disc, the third MP3. Each of these MP3s are 65 minutes long, so they burn perfectly onto CDs.

The third one is where all the information comes together:  you get all the Russian science, the pyramid science, the global warming science, the DNA science, and it all comes together in this meditation.

And we‘ve had people — and we tell you don‘t drive…

Henrik: [laughs]

David: …when you‘re listening to this last section, because it does bring up all this stuff for you. A lot of people have cried when they hear it, and it‘s just a very powerful revelation-type of experience to have.

It’s a great thing. I don‘t wanna self-promote too much on it. If you‘re interested in it, you can download three free files. They‘re complete songs from the series, and that‘s free on the website.

There‘s a whole lot of other stuff on the website that you can access for free; whole books I‘ve written. There‘s just a lot more you can explore and understand


I‘m really glad that you‘ve listened to the whole show at this point, and just want to thank everyone for being out there. You also will be able to hear more of this show if you‘re a member with Red Ice Creations. We are going to talk more. That‘s part of their subscription. I guess, Henrik, you can tell them more about that.


Henrik:  Absolutely. I just wanted to squeeze this in here also. Have you, yourself, worked a lot with music before? Considering that you mentioned your knowledge in harmonics and things like this, was this a factor that you incorporated into it when you worked out this CD? 

David:  Oh, yeah, absolutely. I‘ve been composing my own music since I was in high school. I took a college course in MIDI-sequencing. I actually minored in jazz. I am a virtuoso jazz drummer.

Henrik:  Oh, nice, a drummer, huh? — Me, too, actually.

David:  Oh, that‘s cool. Yeah, I can do all the flashy solos and that kind of stuff, but….

Henrik:  [laughs]

David: …but, um, originally, I thought that was what I was gonna be: a musician. So this is wonderful because it‘s sort of the final bringing together of my musical talent and the spiritual things I‘ve been working on.

Henrik:  Uh-huh, nice.

David:  There is also a music-only CD you get with the extended version, which is $59.99 for the whole set. The basic 3-lecture set is $39.99, but if you get the extended set you get two complete CD lengths worth of music. You‘ll also hear The Journey in there, which is a piece I wrote all on my own that is very, very profound in terms of its transformative quality. It‘s all orchestral.




Henrik:  Hmmm.

David:  Larry is also a technician. He works with this software system called Gigastudio, which is what most of the Hollywood movies are using when you hear orchestral scores. They‘re not actually live orchestras anymore. You might get a live violin or a live cello or horn or something, but a lot of it is all computer-generated. So…

Henrik:  Sure.

David: He set me up with an outrageous, incredible system. And I‘ve been able to write some really wonderful music on it. So all that stuff came out in terms of what we wrote for this CD series.


Henrik:  Hmmm, excellent. So, everyone head on over to and check it out — there‘s a bunch of articles, interesting stuff up there, The Science of Peace series and much, much more.

So, okay, we‘re gonna actually take a little break here. Good place to take a pause. We‘re gonna continue talking with David Wilcock in the subscribers‘ section. So I want to say “Thanks ” to everyone for tuning into this first segment, also to Farik [ph?] behind the controls.

David, we‘ll see you on the other side of this break.

David:  Well, Henrik, it‘s been my pleasure. Thank you.