A question of celibacy?

Hi all,

I seem to recall DW mentioning in his autobiographical book
recommendations from RA that he not engage in masturbation. As many
of you know, there is a long history within eastern traditions of
remaining celibate, that is, no sexual behaviour, solo or otherwise.
Many have interpreted this directive as moral or ethical, and that may
be so in some cases and certainly on a more trivial understanding of
the argument. However, when one looks at the more technical teachings
found in yoga Tantra, it is seen that the directive comes from an
argument about the conservation of prana and so forth.

It is my understanding that RA speaks of sexual behaviour with other
human beings (that is, with a partner) as having an energetic sharing
effect that seems to build and heighten one's energy; thus it is
beneficial.

Modern sexology seems to suggest, solo or coupled sex, with orgasm and
ejaculation (both are not necessarily conjunctive), is beneficial;
with various studies and their interpretations quoted.

So my question is what is the consensus view on this list as to solo
sexual practice? And further, can anyone tell me (or provide quotes -
as I don't have the book) exactly what RA was saying to DW and the
argument behind it?

My specific reason for asking this question, is I am interested in the
cause and effect relationship of orgasm or lack there of, upon the
state of the agents involved as it relates to their energetic systems,
that is, the vitality of their mind, nervous system, health, kundalini
phenomena, depth of absorption (in spiritual practice - meditation)
and realisation of the ground of being (however you conceive that to
be), from first person experience and the RA teachings.

Many thanks to you all!

In kind regards,

Adam.

-----Original Message-----
From: asc2k@yahoogroups.com [mailto:asc2k@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
fraterandros1

>As many of you know, there is a long history within eastern traditions of
remaining celibate, that is, no sexual behaviour, solo or otherwise. Many
have interpreted this directive as moral or ethical, and that may be so in
some cases and certainly on a more trivial understanding of the argument.

...can anyone tell me (or provide quotes - as I don't have the book) exactly
what RA was saying to DW and the argument behind it?

DW: I believe that the relevant Law of One quotes are in Book Three.
Specifically it says that the male orgasm creates an automatic release of
vital energy from the root chakra. In heterosexual sex, the female's energy
replenishes this loss, whereas in solo sexual experiences this does not
occur. Each Law of One session required a sexual energy transfer for the
instrument to have enough energy to bring in the contact.

In my previous counseling work with men I encouraged them to attempt to
reduce the frequency if they asked the question. True avoidance is probably
just about impossible for a young man, and obviously a relationship is the
best catalyst for growth and healthy sexuality. (That is, unless you have my
history, which is unwelcome drama and celibacy in relationship... hence my
'oasis' period at present before navigating the waters again.)

Since many men combine their auto-sexual experiences with looking at
pictures, it is also important to note that if you look at someone else's
face in the moment of orgasm, you are sending them a bolt of energy that is
more than enough to interrupt their free will, thus bringing about negative
karma for yourself, to a degree. I also do not recommend having vivid sexual
fantasies of someone you're chasing for the same reason. Instead, channel
that energy into developing the possibilities.

Peace be with you -

- David

Hi David,

Thanks for your clarification! :-)

In kind regards,

Adam.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi David,

> vital energy from the root chakra. In heterosexual sex, the female's
> energy
> replenishes this loss, whereas in solo sexual experiences this does not
> occur. Each Law of One session required a sexual energy transfer for the
> instrument to have enough energy to bring in the contact.

I'd read somewhere else about being able to do what were termed as
"retrievals," for want of a better term...visits to places of the dead. I
noticed that at times, after having had sex with my most recent previous
girlfriend, during the night immediately after I'd have dreams which were
very similar to other people's accounts of retrievals, as well as dreams
about the current geopolitical scenario.

Given that like you, I also have grown tired of unnecessary drama, I must
ask...is there any way in which it is possible to still gain this energy
that does not involve heterosexual intercourse?

I will admit that I feel I am approaching a time in my life when, for a
period anyway, I am going to attempt to become as close to being completely
physically alone as I can tolerate. I'm not sure if that is going to
include the Internet or not...I'm not sure I could manage that. My reasons
however for doing this are primarily due to the domination of others. I
have never known a single individual who has not tried to force me to adhere
my own life to their agenda...I am also tired of being exposed to
vilification and shame from some others over my not having reached the same
economic level that they have, as well as stress relating to the criminal
behaviour of my father and a number of other individuals. My offline social
network is now almost entirely non-existent, consisting solely of my mother
and my two brothers.

I want, more than anything else at this point, to learn how to maintain
psychological stability, and also to continue to grow developmentally,
outside of a spousal relationship, and also largely outside of the contact
of my current biological family. I believe my having committed suicide at
the end of my most recent previous incarnation was due to my reaction to a
relationship having ended; at that point I was not willing to learn to live
on my own. I still feel an enormous amount of fear in that area, but I am
finally starting to become willing to at least try it, I think...the degree
of attempted domination, stress, and other forms of abuse that I have
experienced not just from the previous relationship but also from my parents
has become intolerable.

Can I therefore also ask...what is your perspective on attempting to become
secluded physically to a severe degree? I seem to recall reading that
Aleister Crowley in particular observed that it is actually one of the
initial stages of more genuine development...would you agree with that?

Hi David,

What do you and RA say about the subject of masturbation for females?

I've advised my female friends to go solo to release excess sexual energy if
they didn't have a partner, rather than having random sex with just
anyone...namely, with those males who would be selfish in their approach and
just use the females body as a release for them. Anytime you have sex with
someone, it leaves an energetic imprint on you and the other person.

Feedback?

Mel


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What if both partners are in the sexual relationship for release? What if that
is the only reason and partnership is set up on that basis from the beginning.
As long as both are consenting individuals there is no reason for being sexually
repressed. I feel it is far more deleterious for us to ignore that we are sexual
beings and that we have needs. Some of us are highly sexual in nature and have
been all our lives. For me to pretend otherwise is merely a covering up of my
true self and I no longer desire to be buried and smothered under society's
judgement calls.

The Victorian era has morphed into Victoria's secret. The underwear may be
exposed in public now but what is underneath is still considered dirty. As long
as we think of the Human body and all of it's conditions as an embarrassment we
foster the growth of sickness. Keeping our sexuality secret and underwraps has
kept us in the dark ages where people sneak around and do what comes naturally
as long as know one finds out.

Those who would choose celibacy have every right to do so. Those who choose to
be involved in a sexually expressive relationship have that right as well. The
most important issue is that the people involved are honestly discussing what
they desire to gain from the arrangement when they are interacting with another
person. We need to be honest and forthright in all of our dealings with
everyone that we come in contact with. To be otherwise is damaging and setting
ourselves up for problems down the line. We can stuff it down but it will rise
to the surface eventually some way, some how no matter how many times we attempt
to be someone that we are not. Any false fronts we wear are eventually going to
come back around and bite us in the butt. A wise friend once shared a quote
with me that he was gifted years ago: "Justification and Masturbation are the
same thing...In the end, we are still just screwing ourselves."

It is not considered unusual for men to seek out sexual liasons for physical
pleasure. If a woman desires the same thing she is called all manner of names
and looked down upon. Many women that I speak to are tired of staying home alone
and taking care of business by themselves. They aren't necessarily looking for a
man to be around all the time but they would like to enjoy a sexual relationship
with a like minded individual. They worry most about what people will think of
them if they have sex with men that they are not in a commited relationship
with. Many of these women are supporting themselves and quite comfortable with
making their own life decisions. What they are not comfortable with is the idea
of ruining their reputations by acting on their libido.

Our "supposed" reputations are so very fragile even in this day and age. Many
people have decided that it is better to be alone than with the "wrong" person,
whatever that means. Unfortunately there are also those who have decided to stay
in harmful relationships rather than start over again. I don't know when the
idea came about that civilized people had to be in a long standing monogamous
relationship; but, that arrangement doesn't work for everyone. Sexuality is not
a one size fits all deal. Western ideas of approved sexual mores has caused
alot of mental and emotional anguish and hardship especially in the US.
Ignoring any facets of our personalities does not mean they will go away. The
only way healthy growth is to gain understanding of who we are through and
through.

I haven't spoken to many men about sex face to face; but I have seen plenty of
evidence that there are alot of men who are looking for company. Just being on
an instant messenger has brought alot of this to light for me. Without one
mention of sex in my profile, I am constantly bombarded by men who want to show
me what they've got. Webcams have become the latest method of being a voyeur
without having to get up close and personal. Pornography would never have
become the multi-million dollar grimy, underground business that it is if people
felt free to express themselves sexually. What grows in the dark and shady
places can and does block out the light. Slimeworld is choking us to death and
endangering our children.

Love and Blessings,
Gayle Texas Wind

Gayle,

I give your response for the female side of sexuality a resounding here! Here!
Many women feel the same way you do-me included. However, I want to get back to
the LoO take on this, as, being emotional anyway , we women tend to run away
with the emotional/religious/moral values we have been brought up with. The LoO
provides a nice breath of fresh air where we can have some respite from
judgements
and simply look upon our male/female interraction logically (a
paradox????laughing.

Ra's statements never pass a judgement on anyone. They simply state what occurs
between two consenting (or non-consenting) parties=positive energy transfers or
negative energy transfers. To our fragile human ears, it seems unfeeling,
without
emotion perhaps, but they are simply describing from their viewpoint what they
see 3rd density illusion doing.

Also, Ra only discusses masturbation in one
sentence in the entire 4 books and it just has to do with teenagers (male)
experimenting and being male. Ra also explains that this is simply the 3D
critter
doing what the body will do because it is a body It is humans who attach good
or bad connotations to it. No where do the LoO books speak about masturbation,
by either sex, with a judemental attitude. So, on that point, I suggest that
we, as
humans, have created these restrictions on ourselves .

Many times LoO will speak of positive/negative, and I think here in this
discussion, we
can apply their suggestions, as it is the INTENTION of our actions that is
important. Intention
shapes what type of energy we project and can change a simple action, such as
what Mel
queried ( a simple gratification privately), to something malefic such as a
pedophile would do by
destroying free will of a child. I think we can all see the difference here. So,
intention is the key-
don't come to a conclusion until you figure out the intention.

What DW was explaining was his search to be a more pure channel with abstension
from personal gratification. Heck, he can just plain concentrate better when he
doesn't
have to worry about all those females bugging his psyche

Let's face it gals, guys just have a hard time figuring us out, lol. Maybe LoO
can
help the guys figure this/us out We are One, after all. The guys just don't
want
to ask for directions-they would rather drive in circles...laughing...Chris



Those who would choose celibacy have every right to do so. Those who choose to
be involved in a sexually expressive relationship have that right as well. The
most important issue is that the people involved are honestly discussing what
they desire to gain from the arrangement when they are interacting with another
person. We need to be honest and forthright in all of our dealings with everyone
that we come in contact with. To be otherwise is damaging and setting ourselves
up for problems down the line. Love and Blessings,
Gayle Texas Wind


.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It looks like the young people are going to lead the way once again. I realize
that some people will be appalled by this article and I accept the
responsibility for sharing it if is allowed on the board.

Love and Blessings,
Gayle Texas Wind

Nude Teens Raise Eyebrows
Fri Aug 25, 10:10 AM
By Scott Christianson

BRATTLEBORO, Vermont (Reuters) - Some have appeared naked in a downtown parking
lot. Others rode their bicycles or simply strolled the streets in the
nude.Teenagers in the quaint Vermont town of Brattleboro are raising eyebrows
this summer with brazen displays of nudity.So far they haven't been arrested or
ticketed: public nudity isn't illegal in the town of 13,000 people, unless it's
done to arouse sexual gratification.

Vermont has a live-and-let-live tradition, allowing skinny-dipping and nude
sunbathing. Brattleboro, the first permanent English settlement in the state in
1724, is home to a community of writers, artists and musicians as well as
transplanted entrepreneurs from Boston and New York. When the weather grew hot
this year, a couple of dozen teens took to holding hula hoop contests, riding
bikes and parading past the shops wearing only their birthday suits.
Nobody, including the police, seemed to take offense until one local, Theresa
Toney, went before the town government in August to complain about a group of
youngsters naked in a parking lot. "The parking lot is not a strip club," she
said. "What about children seeing this?"

Town officials asked their attorney to draft an ordinance to ban such displays
for the Select Board to vote on in September. When the teens heard about it,
some staged a nude sit-in."I don't see why it's such a big deal," said Alec
McPherson, a recent high school graduate as he sat at a coffee shop table,
browsing a thick volume of artwork from the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
"Everyone's naked in this book."

His companion, Jeremiah Compton, a high school junior who plays in a local
metal-and-punk band, agreed. "It's just that we're bored and expressing our
right," he said.
"We have a nuclear power plant a few miles away and a ridiculous war in the
Middle East, countries getting bombed," said Ian Bigelow, a 23-year-old who had
gathered with some of his friends outside a bookstore. "So why's it such a big
problem if we chose to get nude?"

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/25082006/...-eyebrows.html

Hello Chris, Gayle and everyone,

This is my first post to the group as a new member, funny that this
topic would be my first post but the topic of sexuality likely is as
an important topic as any, in a holistic sense. Generally, in
moral/religious arena, I think we have been conditioned to view
sexuality as the forbidden fruit so to speak. I don't assume to have
all the answers but I think this conditioning may (?) have served a
useful purpose but maybe not. My vision of a healthy society in the
future (wish it were now) more or less makes room for a greater
understanding and acceptance of sexuality, for consenting adults being
able to share in expressing their sexuality together, in ways that are
healthy and liberating, which does not include shame, guilt or
abandoning of responsibilities to family. Love, including the
expression of a healthy sexuality, is far too great and beautiful of
a thing, to confine it as "we" do, without this creating more problems
in people and society, likely we read about the cause and effect
results of this in our news everyday. Though possibly this
"liberation" requires a lot of maturity on our part and I wonder if we
are responsible enough to handle this degree of liberation? Food for
thought. Thanks for allowing me to express my views. Warmest
regards. - Colin

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Hamilton" <chris.hamilton2@...>
wrote:
>
> Gayle,
>
The LoO provides a nice breath of fresh air where we can have some respite from
judgements
> and simply look upon our male/female interraction logically (a
paradox????laughing.

Chris
>
>
>
> Those who would choose celibacy have every right to do so. Those
who choose to be involved in a sexually expressive relationship have
that right as well. The most important issue is that the people
involved are honestly discussing what they desire to gain from the
arrangement when they are interacting with another person. We need to
be honest and forthright in all of our dealings with everyone that we
come in contact with. To be otherwise is damaging and setting
ourselves up for problems down the line. Love and Blessings,
> Gayle Texas Wind

I know they mean well, but a nude sit in is not sanitary, thats just a fact,
sorry.


--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com, "Gayle \"Texas Wind\" Sexauer" <GS5555@...> wrote:
>
> It looks like the young people are going to lead the way once again. I
realize that some
people will be appalled by this article and I accept the responsibility for
sharing it if is
allowed on the board.
>
> Love and Blessings,
> Gayle Texas Wind
>
> Nude Teens Raise Eyebrows
> Fri Aug 25, 10:10 AM
> By Scott Christianson