Thanks for the reading

[MarkM]

a good entry point for contemplation...

every day, millions of dead skin cells slough themselves off our bodies, and other dead cells exit the scene in a variety of ways. the bodies we now inhabit are, in fact, entirely not the same bodies we wore several years ago, that body being essentially dead. but we are still here, all the same.

one day, we will 'slough' off this body all at once, the only difference between this phenomena and the afore-mentioned process is the speed at which this occurs.

in thinking of loved ones, both those who have passed and those still on earth, i am comforted by the idea of those, who when they pass over, have been warmly greeted by those who have passed previously. i like to imagine that this is an arrangement facilitated by those loving, serving entities who aid in our transition to time/space. indeed, certain members of my family have had visitations from their most dearly beloved who have passed, both in the waking and the dream state. i wonder, mindful of the synchronistic nature of time, whether those who have passed can be greeted on the other side by those they left behind on the earth plane? to me, it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.

if there is a cosmic instant in which we all pass out of the 3d earth plane together circa 2012, i don't expect that families and friends will be summarily ripped apart, instantly separated and spread out across the range of densities and planets that variously represent our differing destinations, never to be heard from again. the universe is too merciful for that. i imagine there may be stages of transition wherein we countenance our children and other loved ones as they really are, in the full maturity of all lifetimes lived on earth, and at that time we will know that each and every one of us is eternally safe and firmly ensconced within the protective, loving embrace of the one infinite creator.

i believe that our soul essence has the capability to continue to know, love and interact with any soul with whom we have shared a bond across any perceived distance; indeed, distance and duration are 'immutable' only here in the world of illusion. it is said that the only thing we can take with us when we go is the treasure we have stored up in our hearts. our loved ones are certainly some of the very few things here on earth that we can take with us!

so be prepared for some soul-shuddering, rib-cracking sobs of joy, when you find out that nothing you love will ever be taken from you.

divine comfort and love to all, mark

[Art]

both of you have shared some good perspectives on mercy (which i totally agree with) and continuity (which i am still undecided, but strongly leaning towards acceptance). in my earlier post in this thread, i fear i may have "upset" some with incorrect suggestions of being separated from those we love after 2012. if this is so, i do apologize. my intention here was not to upset anyone, or create fear, but rather to point out that it is merely speculation on anything beyond 2012. i envision a totally spectacular shift from this 3d life of illusion to a 4d life of truth. to persuade the reader of how spectacular i think this shift to be, i used some rather strong language, which in hindsight was also incorrect.

as i re-read my response post to kris, i was subtly reminded of how everything we "experience" is "kept" within us (across all incarnations), so to suggest that beyond 2012 "we will remember nothing about this 3d life or experience when on the other side... finally, i dare say, on the other side, i won't "recognize" anyone else, and they won't "recognize" me." was incorrect, and possibly irresponsible. again, please accept my humble apologies for not offering a "complete" and "accurate" response, based on the entirity of what i "know" at this time (which in fact is quite limited and open to "further clarification").

so, in closing, thank you both for offering "countering" perspectives on loved ones after 2012 (you too teresa!). i've always believed that no single one of us has the best answer, but rather together we offer our inidividual input to formulate an acceptable, and more importantly complete, collective "answer" to questions we all have. its an honor to be learning with all of you.

art

[MarkM]

hi, art!:d

i do love reading your posts; i find they resound with inspiring thoughts and feelings.

my speculation regarding an interim transitional period wherein we 'wrap up' our business here in 3d is only that...speculation. ra teaches that at the conclusion of a normal birth, living and 'death' cycle in 3d, we re-experience certain parts of the life just passed in order to integrate and fully accept that life. although what i wrote in my previous post to this thread, referring to a similar type of transitional period at the conclusion of human 3d life on earth, might seem to me a possible scenario, it is not knowable to us, now.

it is an idea that, rather, illuminates a possible alternative that addresses an anxiety that we all have pondered, regarding our loved ones at the time of ascension. i do believe there will be a sudden, simultaneous event in which we transit out of the 3d plane en masse, but certainly what happens after that no one knows, although we are all free to conjecture.

i do think it possible that once we are fully integrated into 4d life, our concerns and memories of 3d will be as a distant murmur, with little or perhaps no lingering relevance to our new adventure. it's possible that this stage will be more or less instantly attained by those who ascend, but either way, i feel we will be assured one way or the other of the continued loving and caring of those we care for and love, here and now.

as you put it so well, everyone will find their own way, in their own time, and their experiences and interpretations will reveal their inner truth, their connection to all, to one. this for me is the most comforting sentiment raised on this thread thus far, and addresses most firmly the truth of the issue, in that we will all be ok. it is something we can know within ourselves, now.

thanks once again for the inspiration you share!:d

mark

[Art]

rather than privately mail mark a response, i felt these words had to be shared with all. to begin, thank you for your kind words mark. all too often i am my "harshest" critic; it usually takes several attempts to "get it all out", and even then i'm not overly satisfied with what was written. one thing i love about the dc forum is the atmosphere of cooperation, of "compromise". i have often "modified" my thoughts (or, in most cases, formed a clearer "picture") due to the feedback from the wonderful members of this forum, and this came through discussions such as these. never once have i been harshly criticized by another member for a slip-up now and then (i've made quite a few) - this truly is a safe haven for the free exchange of ideas, and people are here to help, not to argue. for that i am extremely thankful.

so, to those who may feel that they lack the knowledge to post, etc., you are wrong (again, a little strong - sorry!). we all bring invaluable experience and perspective to this forum of spiritual learning, and each and every member's interpretation of this knowledge is not only valued, but necessary for a more complete "understanding" by all. i'd use the analogy of "an incomplete one without you"... :d

lastly, thank you mark for identifying what i would agree is one of the better sentiments:

"...everyone will find their own way, in their own time, and their experiences and interpretations will reveal their inner truth, their connection to all, to one."

you nailed it - this is quite comforting when contemplating "the fate" of our loved ones in 2012 (to the best of my knowledge, all those i love are still "asleep"). i'd like to add a little here - remember back to your quest for truth, your spiritual journey up until now... hasn't it been a great ride, filled with adventure, of discovery? i don't "pity" those who are still "asleep", but rather am excited for them, maybe even a little jealous, for as this "oneness movement" becomes more mainstream, people will be talking face to face in coffee shops, not just in internet forums... they won't feel isolated, and if the atmosphere for spiritual conversation is a fraction of what it is here, great things are sure to happen at a must faster pace, on a much wider scale. oh i can see it now! :d

may your being be comforted by peace, nourished with joy. with each passing moment, may you be filled more and more with the light and love of the infinite creator, the one.

art

[Kris]

as i re-read my response post to kris, i was subtly reminded of how everything we "experience" is "kept" within us (across all incarnations), so to suggest that beyond 2012 "we will remember nothing about this 3d life or experience when on the other side... finally, i dare say, on the other side, i won't "recognize" anyone else, and they won't "recognize" me." was incorrect, and possibly irresponsible. again, please accept my humble apologies for not offering a "complete" and "accurate" response, based on the entirity of what i "know" at this time (which in fact is quite limited and open to "further clarification").
art

hi art:

please do not feel as though you need to apologize. in fact, i wanted to thank you for your answer and have not found the time until now to do so. i thought your response was very heartfelt and i appreciate, more than you could know, that you took the time to give me your perspective. in fact, i was wondering which thread your post was in that you quoted from. i thought that would be a great thread to read.

i take a little bit from everything everyone on this forum has to say and come up with my own answers. after all, as you have all said, it truly is just speculation on anybody's part. nobody really knows for sure. if, in fact, as you said, we do not remember anything, then there really is nothing to fear.

what really stood out for me from what you said was to live in the now "as the true miracle in all of us is the process of awakening". this helped me to realize that i should not fear the future, but live in the present moment.

i have found much comfort in the words of all who have sought to answer my questions and i thank you all.

gratefully yours,
kris

[soup]

art shared:

...in my earlier post in this thread, i fear i may have "upset" some with incorrect suggestions of being separated from those we love after 2012...

today i was contemplating an old q'uo transcript that suggested that the 3d experience upon earth generally comes with a "thicker" veil that allows for better integration of "shadow elements" in a way that facilitates later work going into 6d.

for example, it may be that "the generalization" proposed above accommodates those who choose a negative path, and in that case the choice of negative polarity may seem to limit progression to 6d.

this quandary may be an example of a shadow element that is conducive to come to terms with earlier than later. it would seem that some foresight into this possibility may work to catalyze some upon a negative path to choose differently, to polarize positive.

if this is the case then there seems some possibility that the generalization above seems partially correct, (in that a negative polarization seems to foster separation - or at least an illusion of separation.)

[Art]

today i was contemplating an old q'uo transcript that suggested that the 3d experience upon earth generally comes with a "thicker" veil that allows for better integration of "shadow elements" in a way that facilitates later work going into 6d.

for example, it may be that "the generalization" proposed above accommodates those who choose a negative path, and in that case the choice of negative polarity may seem to limit progression to 6d.

this quandary may be an example of a shadow element that is conducive to come to terms with earlier than later. it would seem that some foresight into this possibility may work to catalyze some upon a negative path to choose differently, to polarize positive.

if this is the case then there seems some possibility that the generalization above seems partially correct, (in that a negative polarization seems to foster separation - or at least an illusion of separation.)

soup,

pardon my ignorance, but i'm a little confused at what point you are trying to get across here... of course, if there is "a shadow element" working through me, i would not be able to "see it" and would need an outside perspective to observe this and point it out to me, which seems to be the case here? again, i really don't know if this is your message to me here, or if you were simply expanding upon the error in my posting...

a little clarification would be greatly appreciated (again, pardon my inability to understand your intended message...).

the last thing i would say on the topic of separation after the shift would be this:

in my current level of understanding, it seems the desire to remain attached to loved ones after the shift represents a tether to our current 3d "reality". in my beginning studies of this upcoming shift, i read over and over again that to fully make the shift to 4d, we would have to cut all ties (tethers) with our present reality. else, we would simply remain in 3d. its easy to consider this when thinking about our current materialistic addictions and overall ways of living, but, when taken to the next level of leaving "loved ones", becomes quite difficult to accept. i mean, what's the point of making the journey without the ones you love?

i had put this troublesome question aside and focused on getting down to the business of living in the present now, and stopped worrying about what all is going to happen in 2012, etc. this released a great deal of anxiety and fostered further interpretation of oneness. however, given the opportunity to express what i consider to be the biggest miracle of all of this (individual awakening), the question of separating from our loved ones did come up, and eventually led to here.

so, there are four options. the first would be that the source material for "cutting ties" was incorrect. the second would be that my interpretation of this source material was incorrect. or, the third and worst case scenario, is i have been fooled by "shadow elements" into thinking i've been making great progress towards positive polarization, service to others, and oneness - when in fact the opposite is being observed from at least one member of the forum. i have a hard time accepting this, but, is worthy of consideration as i trust soup's ability to observe and analyze...

the four option is that i am way off in my current interpretation of soup's post, and most of this particular post is unnecessary.

a little help here please...

art

[soup]

...a little clarification would be greatly appreciated (again, pardon my inability to understand your intended message...)...

i think the suggestion of the possibility that people will be "separated" from loved ones in 2012" could contain some truth - in that some may be so negatively polarized that their state may likely distill such experience as being separated from loved ones.

it may be that such negative polarizations limit a person, i.e. it detracts from them developing an appreciation of the illusory nature of such separations.

a supporting image seems of the chaff being separated during a harvest. (that a harvest is now may suggest that a harvest may continue in the now through 2012 and on, difficult to say.)

a counter impression seems that as upon a more positively polarized path, a person may develop a sense of connection to loved ones that goes beyond being in close physical proximity to them.

i commend art for taking initiative and openly sharing about this difficult subject, thank you. i consider such acts - as those of one on a positive path: helping to write for those that have difficulty so. sadly, i'm sure there's many ideas like this that never find a voice even though they are fertile for many to grow from.

sometimes writings can "push buttons" in a way which we better learn what our buttons are and so can shrink them. maybe buttons can be keys to shadows in that they may trigger subconscious behaviors. in this case, finding one who can push buttons may offer utility - in upleveling such shadows.

in the context of this forum and the sharing of such writings, it may be helpful for some to "not take it personally" as a coping mechanism for the service to others that is rendered in such ways.

[Art]

in the context of this forum and the sharing of such writings, it may be helpful for some to "not take it personally" as a coping mechanism for the service to others that is rendered in such ways.

soup,

thank you for the response - clarification has indeed occurred. i appreciate your response and especially the quoted sentence. indeed, i have learned a lesson not to read into things so much. :d thank you for pointing this out.



as one can interpret from my first post to soup, i was a little shaken indeed. deep down i had a hard time believing what my interpretations were telling me, hence the desire for further clarification.

in the end, discussion of this "topic" of separation is difficult and the use of particular words (or in most cases, omissions of further words - further description) can result in an incomplete (hence, wrong) message being sent.

i believe that the true, unconditional love we have for our loved ones will echo throughout eternity. this is the same love as that of the one, and we can never be separated from it. imagining the future transformation to 4d seems at times a silly endeavor. if what i have read is true, i will be separated from my physical 3d body, and so will all of you. we hope that our loved ones will join us in the ascension, and if so, they also will be separated from their physical 3d bodies. but, to what? i'd rather not speculate (although i am leaning towards "energy bodies" and "social memory complex"). in this nearly "incomprehensible" future (a 3d mind cannot comprehend 4d "reality"), identity takes on a whole new meaning. we are abandoning the illusion of "separation" and accepting "oneness". so, the concept of identity shifts from the "individual" to the "singular" - all are identical, all are one. all is love.

hmm... i think this is definitely worthy of further discussion.

in closing, i not only want to apologize to soup, but to everyone in the forum for a needless overreaction. i should have simply asked for clarification (which is all i really wanted) rather than spill out the "drama" in my thoughts for all to see. hopefully we can take more positive "learnings" from my misunderstanding and subsequent err in judgement.

art

[soup]

...as one can interpret from my first post to soup, i was a little shaken indeed. deep down i had a hard time believing what my interpretations were telling me, hence the desire for further clarification....

this seems an example of what q'uo alludes to in almost any reading - that if some idea doesn't ressonate well - to be sure and discard it - that there seems propensity for dissonant ideas to act as major stumbling blocks on one's path (which goes against the intent of q'uo readings.)

maybe the wording contained in how an idea is shared can have some degree of ambiguity in a way that somehow triggers a feeling of dissonance. i'm sorry if i did that - i'm a bit clumsy and reckless in ways, i'll try to be more careful.