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Thread: The karma of suicide

  1. #1
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    Default The karma of suicide

    a friend of mine is extremely unhappy with his life and he want to commit suicide by sinking himself to the bottom of a lake.


    he's destroyed his small fortune that would have carried him with ease through these troubled times, so he is extremely upset that he was stupid enough to destroy his own little fortune by his own bad choices.


    now he is about to run out of cash in a few months and i've been trying to dissuade him from the idea of ending his life and he asked me flat-out: "what karma is there with killing myself?" i had no answer.


    do you have an answer to this? any ra material-based answers? anything that dw has said about any karmic repercussions of suicide? i'd like to see your comments so that i can have something to say to my friend.

  2. #2
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    Default

    hi mozart. long time no see you here. sorry it is under such anxious circumstances.

    i have heard many different ideas of the karmic value of suicide. and i have even read stuff that makes me question the very existance of karma so i am not going to comment on that as i am sure others would know better.

    first of all, there are crisis centers that will admit him and hold him for a minimum of 72 hours. don't hesitate to call 911 if you think he is gonna do it. i have been through these crisis centers before and it was very helpful. there was nothing better for me when i was feeling miserable then to be around other miserable people. i am pretty sure all states have the same sort of thing.

    sounds like your friend is going through a "dark night of his soul". this presents your friend with what is probably the biggest challenge of his life. i have felt this utter sense of pain and regret. emotional, physical, and mental bankrupcy.

    if i was in your shoes i would try to embolden your friend. don't let him take the easy way out of the situation. he is not the first or the last person that something like this has happened to. if he makes it out of this, it will serve as a blessing in which he does the most spiritual growth. but telling someone that in the throes of a tragic situation is not adviseable.

    i don't know what he squandered his money on but if it was drugs or alcohol or gambling or women then the "anonymous" groups are great for stuff like that (aa, ga, na, sa). he will find comfort in the stories of other people who have gone through the same sort catostrophic mistakes.

    embolden him. make him put on his man pants and stand up to this challenge. and try to make him see this as an opportunity for growth. i believe things like this happen for a reason. hold his hand for the moment if you have too. he will get over the initial acute sickening pain of the situation in time and he just needs to get through this crisis stage. so sleep next to that man if you have to, to be sure that he doesn't do it. that is what i would do if i was in your shoes.

    maybe this story would bring some comfort to your friend:

    during my interview with him, the man told me about a terrible incident that occurred when he was younger. he was attacked in an alley in a large city, stabbed repeatedly by a gang, and then left for dead. he managed to crawl out to the street where someone found him and took him to the hospital. he almost died and remained in the hospital for quite a while recuperating. one of the things he wanted to know during our session was the purpose of the horrible experience. why did it happen? during the session, when i contacted the subconscious and asked it that question, the answer was very surprising. it said, "oh, that was a group of his friends who volunteered to help him." i thought, with friends like that, who needs enemies! it didn't seem the type of thing a friend would do!

    the subconscious explained that it had all been orchestrated from the other side. the man's life was going in the wrong direction, and he was not going to be able to get back on his path without drastic action that would turn his life around. there had been many subtle attempts to get his attention, and when these did not work, the attack was arranged. drastic, dramatic, unexplainable, yes, but it shows the extremes the universe will go to in order to turn someone's life around without having them physically exit this world.
    or this one:

    http://divinecosmos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10990

    good luck to you and your friend. i am listening to one of dw's radio shows where he mentioned that these times will push your buttons. in fact, that is what these times are meant to do. it sounds like your friend's buttons are definitely being pushed.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/dark_night_of_the_soul
    Last edited by FooSnik; 10-22-2010 at 08:37 AM.
    "When you look into the eyes of another, any other, and you see your own soul looking back at you, then you will know that you have reached another level of consciousness." -Brian Weiss

  3. #3
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    Default Suicide

    hello mozart

    i do not know of any specific references to suicide in the loo, but my instinctive reaction that suicide is an sts choice, -which is quite paradoxical given that it involves self destruction.

    there is a book which interviews survivors who jumped off the golden gate bridge. one of them said that as soon as he jumped, he realized that everything that had led to his decision was inconsequential . that the only important thing was his life.

    often the suicide doesn't want to kill himself, but a part of himself. in the case of your friend it seems as though he wants to kill the part of himself that brought about his financial ruin. this can be done without resorting to drowning himself. many people have survived and thrived after losing everything.

    often such a misfortune can lead to a rebirth, which is what i think your friend is looking for, only in not quite the right way.

    in times of misfortune, (and fortune) i often remember an old rosicrucian saying:

    "every circumstance in my life is god dealing with my soul"

    in bringing this to mind, it adds a new perspective to a situation, and encourages me to use this circumstance for the good. maybe it might help your friend. certainly i am sure there are many agencies in your area such as lifeline available to offer your friend free counselling and advice

  4. #4
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    Default

    regarding to your question about the loo, it says this :

    death, if natural, would undoubtedly be the more harmonious; the death by murder being confused and the entity needing some time/space in which to get its bearings, so to speak; the death by suicide causing the necessity for much healing work and, shall we say, the making of a dedication to the third-density for the renewed opportunity of learning the lessons set by the higher self.
    however i am not sure at all that fear of what is to happen on the other side is the right way to choose to live.

    i have been in the same situation as you are now (as well as the exact opposite, how ironic!), and while no two situations are similar, my own experience made me vividly aware that such situations can be extremely difficult. i think ra's teaching(/learning) about 3r density beings having the opportunity to offer love, light and catalyst, but without having direct ability (due to the law of free will) to make decisions for others, may be useful for you in this situation

  5. #5
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    Default

    everything i have heard on the subject says that, with very rare exceptions, suicide is a very bad choice. the rare exceptions include things like people who have a terminal disease and are in so much pain they just can't stand it anymore, etc. but for most people, the problem is that if you end your life prematurely, in a subsequent life you will basically have to start over and face the same challenges. go to some of the sites that deal with near-death experiences and read what people say who have attempted suicide - most will tell you it's a huge mistake.

    typically suicide is viewed as a very selfish act (service to self, as david might put it). sometimes when people do it, it's because they figure they will show the world how bad they were treated (in other words, there's an element of revenge - it's the one last thing you can do to try and get back at those who have hurt you). but what they are not taking into account is the effect it will have on those around them that they might care about. very often, those left behind feel considerable sadness and even possibly guilt, wondering what they could or should have done (although i am saying that, i want to make it clear to you that it's his decision, so if he does ultimately follow through despite your efforts to help, you should not feel any guilt, because it's an act of selfishness that he has chosen).

    one other thing i might ask is if he's explored areas of practical help. for example, if he has no or low income, he can almost certainly get food benefits (what are commonly called "food stamps" for reasons i've never understood, since the benefits have never been issued as stamps, at least not in my lifetime). if he has little or no assets (money in the bank, property in his name, etc.) he may also qualify for free or low cost medical care, and perhaps even housing assistance, depending on where you live (note there is no asset test for food benefits, at least in the place i live - those are strictly income based). if he's not previously been in this financial state, he may not even realize what's available just by applying at your local department of human services, or whatever they call it in your state (just ask any of your low-income neighbors if they can tell you where to apply for food stamps, and start there). also don't overlook medical and dental clinics that cater to those with limited or no incomes. in some states qualifying for food benefits also qualifies a person for other programs (for example, where i live you can get a free cell phone and 250 minutes of cell phone service per month for free, as long as you qualify - i'd mention the name of the company but someone might think i'm shilling for them, so i won't).

    in many cities you can find out about some of these programs by dialing 211 from any landline phone (doesn't always work from cell phones or voip phones, though there's usually a toll-free number that can be used from those phones - usually if you call the local united way or community chest, they can give you the number to call in place of 211). also, if you call and mention that you have a friend that's thinking of committing suicide (and make sure you emphasize that it really is a friend, so they don't think it's you) they may be able to get him some professional help for dealing with that. he might also need some kind of financial counseling and again, the 211 people may be able to direct you to reputable help (not the ripoff artists that advertise on tv).

    finally, i would say that you need to emphasize to your friend that a lot of people are in the same situation he is, and that there have been many others in that situation who have weathered the hard times and pulled out of it one way or another. as long as he is able to survive he should try to do so, because there might be an opportunity he doesn't even know about yet that will come his way, if only he holds on and doesn't give up prematurely.

  6. #6
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    Default

    i definitely remember dw saying that if you commit suicide then you will have to go through the same thing in a future incarnation.

    in budhist theology they say that if you commit suicide then you become a ghost, the same as if you die suddenly - which is similar to auria's above post from the loo;


    quote:
    " death, if natural, would undoubtedly be the more harmonious; the death by murder being confused and the entity needing some time/space in which to get its bearings, so to speak; the death by suicide causing the necessity for much healing work and, shall we say, the making of a dedication to the third-density for the renewed opportunity of learning the lessons set by the higher self."

    the other thing budhist theology says is that if you were for example to crash in to a tree and die then your spirit would enter the tree. i suppose by that rational, a spirit could inhabit the lake because they also believe that spirit can enter a sword when that sword takes a life.

  7. #7
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    Wink

    i think he would probably have to redo class , like failing a year at school. karmically having to do a "make up" test. but with 2012 and the transformation who knows what is?
    sounds to me like your friend could do with giving some kind of loving service or volunteering spiritually somehow, some way. nothing more healing for the soul then helping others. if he also find s a support network, any kind, even an online community where he could anonymously talk freely about his feelings.
    what ever happens he has free will, but i will pray for his wellness as this too will pass if he allows surrender.
    blessings from babyblue xxx

  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mozart View Post
    a friend of mine is extremely unhappy with his life and he want to commit suicide by sinking himself to the bottom of a lake.

    he asked me flat-out: "what karma is there with killing myself?" i had no answer.
    it seams to be more then difficult to understand a system that is widely known as karma.
    ra, somewhere talked about it.


    questioner: thank you. would you define karma?

    ra: i am ra. our understanding of karma is that which may be called inertia. those actions which are put into motion will continue using the ways of balancing until such time as the controlling or higher principle which you may liken unto your braking or stopping is invoked. this stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. these two concepts are inseparable.

    34.5 questioner: if an entity develops what is called karma in an incarnation, is there then programming that sometimes occurs so that he will experience catalysts that will enable him to get to a point of forgiveness thereby alleviating the karma?

    ra: i am ra. this is, in general, correct. however, both self and any involved other-self may, at any time through the process of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, ameliorate these patterns. this is true at any point in an incarnative pattern. thus one who has set in motion an action may forgive itself and never again make that error. this also brakes or stops what you call karma.

    in my understanding, suicided is a violation against self, equal to a violation against other selves.

    and as with all karma, forgiveness is the key. simple yet for most not always easy.

  9. #9
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    Default silver lining

    killing holds great karma whether it is of someone else or yourself. it is still killing. the belief that you can end your suffering by 'ending it all' is a distortion of thought because your spirit never dies and lives on with the karma of the choice to kill which is always distorted no matter what. in a free will universe we all have the choice to kill ourselves but it is not advised. the desire to kill ourselves comes from not facing an issue we are really needing to resolve. fear and disbelief that things can get better are almost always why one feels suicidal. in other words, they have cast off their own sovereign nature to create their experience.

    it is important to acknowledge that many are predestined to lose their material wealth as preparation for the 2012 event. the fear of losing material possessions will make it difficult to ascend. so certain events are put into place to experience loss of wealth if we have great attachments to it as preparation. in other words, there is a silver lining in an experience like this. we will be ascending in 2012 so some of us are meant to have hard life lessons like this for the purpose of letting go of our attachments (aka distorted beliefs).

  10. #10
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    Default

    i know it is easy for us to give advice sitting here, but as we all know, helping others is the best feeling there is. yesterday i was fortunate enough to be approached by a woman and baby begging for money and after giving her some change i felt exhilarated for hours after! there are loads of people in hospitals and care homes who simply want someone to visit them or take them out for a bit. that might help.

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