Free Will

[charles obscure]

freewill, is first of all and primarily the ultimate bestowed gift of the creator. the opportunity to make choices is the means by which a person is able to grow spiritually as well as intellectually. if one considers that the human spirit is an eternal being experiencing a series of physical human existances, then there are no wrong choices but only lessons to be learned which is what physical incarnation is all about as that spiritual entity evolves toward unity with the one inifinite creator and ultimate spiritual maturity. those choice which are presented to an individual are in fact catalysts for which the main purpose is to stimulate the individual to chose between serving self, or serving others. service to self does nothing to advance the evolution of an individuals spiritual growth whereas service to others not only advances the self and higher self, but those to whom the service is rendered. consequently, as a spirit (soul) evolves there will be a learning curve which in the culmination of the lessons will influence the individual to make the positive, upward, service to others choice

i believe the statement in bold to be incorrect, not reflective of the law of one and also contradictory of previous statements made by the same entity earlier in the same paragraph - namely the idea that anything and everything we experience here ultimately advances the evolution of one's spiritual growth.

this issue is talked about in the ra material, when ra reveals that a negative entity can more easily switch polarities than one who is more neutrally polarized, as the more one polarizes in either direction the more spritually aware an individual is. if an entity can become more spritually aware by polarizing negatively, clearly spiritual growth is being made. if a 5th density negative entity can pierce through to the oneness of 6th density with enough effort than definetely spiritual growth has occured in the negative densities.

do i think the positive path is a more efficient and wiser choice for those incarnate here at this time - yes. do i think it is the only path which advances spritual growth - absolutely not.

[Berry Chastain]

charles, i appreciate the comments you made especially regarding the service to self pathway not leading to spiritual growth and evolution. when i made that statement, it was not originally intended for the dc forum, but was addressed to some individuals who are not at all aware of the law of one information. if i had indicated that the negative path of service to self was in itself a valid pathway toward attaining oneness with all that is, it would have been completely incredible to those individuals.

i discussed this issue with the mods before they ever allowed the post to be submitted, and i agree with you completely. the fact is that the very inference that a spirit/soul is on a pathway encompassing many physical lives was daring to begin with considering the extreme fundamentalist mindset of those people. i haven't as yet seen any responses to this statement and it will be interesting to see the fireworks it will cause.

[kundalini]

thanks for the input there berry. i honestly can't see what you said causeing too much in the way of fireworks as charles pointed out, its all pretty much in order. i think most people who have some experience, even limited, would agree with those statements or at least resonate with your ideas. its really just that one like that charles pulled you up on, but you said it was a case of context.

i don't want to get off topic here, but its strange to me that you would distort your message from what you believe based on your audience. withholding information is one thing, but thats a little different. i think if a person resonates with this subject material they will take to it. distorting the message only messes with that process in my opinion. thinking about it, this might not be as offtopic as i thought. does editing your message in such a way conflict with an entities freedom to process the information as a whole rather than filtered through your mind complex?

just some thoughts. i hope i don't seem too hostile. i mean it with the greatest respect.

[AmentiHall]

the creator forgets who he/she/it is in order to play the game that is free will.

we are infinite, multitudes of potentiality of expression of one another. we are all one, manifesting, forgetting where we came from- so as to experience the ultimate gift of free will. a gift, the one bestowed onto itself

free will interfered with? sure. the way upper energies work is we are deceived into interfering with our own free will, as a collective- that way these beings do not have to be responsible karmically for our actions. these are similar to the orion group.

it is our responsibility and choice to raise our level of awareness to be able to correct this- but humans in our planet, have expressed their own free will in attempting to further entrap us within the cycle. this is the game...we might appear to be in conflicts and aquire enemies on our path to enlightenment but at the end of it all, at the end of the cycles.....we will all realize we are still one.

[noel1111]

been thinking about freewill today and isn't everyones freewill being interfered by todays society. like having to go to work everyday and school or church. having to earn money in order to make a living and live by the laws that are put in place. i think laws are put their to protect people from harm, but those people who don't mean any harm can break a law and get into trouble also. isn't their freewill being interfered with?

i too have been thinking about freewill and the gov't and something has been plexing me. maybe someone can shed some light on this.... recently i was reading about bily meier and the enoch prophecies... about how our own gov't are working on weapons that could destroy the entire ozone layer and cause much destruction, chaos and death. let us assume that billy meier did have contact with et's who told him of the world's future. isn't all of our freewill being compromised because such things as et's and end time prophecies have not been made aware to the general public? if they are kept blind on purpose then how can they make any freewill decisions?

do our governements purposefully hide from us the truth on a miriad of subjects on a daily basis? and if so why wouldn't a higher life form who knows how the people are constantly being deceived feel the need to disclose everything to the people so they can make their own freewill decisions? i know i was blind for a very long time and thought the only thing we were supposed to do in life is work, get money, buy house and car and procreate. most of the masses are still kept in that blindness simply because no one has showed them anything different.

isn't it extremely unbalanced to hang the future of the world on a tiny grouping of people like david and billy to "get the word out"? against the larger whole of the negative elite and the gov'ts of the world who have the power to control, and make decisions for the masses, without ever asking what the masses really want? it just seems like a huge uphill battle for the lightworkers.

i think i am probobly missing a large part of the puzzle here but this has been bothering me. i don't understand how the people are supposed to make freewill decisions if they are kept in the dark on purpose. how can they ever see the other side in order to make an informed decision. ugh... my brain hurts today.

[Truth180]

i too have been thinking about freewill and the gov't and something has been plexing me. maybe someone can shed some light on this.... recently i was reading about bily meier and the enoch prophecies... about how our own gov't are working on weapons that could destroy the entire ozone layer and cause much destruction, chaos and death. let us assume that billy meier did have contact with et's who told him of the world's future. isn't all of our freewill being compromised because such things as et's and end time prophecies have not been made aware to the general public? if they are kept blind on purpose then how can they make any freewill decisions?

do our governements purposefully hide from us the truth on a miriad of subjects on a daily basis? and if so why wouldn't a higher life form who knows how the people are constantly being deceived feel the need to disclose everything to the people so they can make their own freewill decisions? i know i was blind for a very long time and thought the only thing we were supposed to do in life is work, get money, buy house and car and procreate. most of the masses are still kept in that blindness simply because no one has showed them anything different.

isn't it extremely unbalanced to hang the future of the world on a tiny grouping of people like david and billy to "get the word out"? against the larger whole of the negative elite and the gov'ts of the world who have the power to control, and make decisions for the masses, without ever asking what the masses really want? it just seems like a huge uphill battle for the lightworkers.

i think i am probobly missing a large part of the puzzle here but this has been bothering me. i don't understand how the people are supposed to make freewill decisions if they are kept in the dark on purpose. how can they ever see the other side in order to make an informed decision. ugh... my brain hurts today.

i know and everytime i think about these things i think inside the box and then outside and look at the whole picture and then wonder why even talk about it, because there is a reason for it all and the more opputunities for spiritual growth. everyday its like this and sleep thinking. thinking about thinking.

[Berry Chastain]

here is the only response to my post to that question. i think as you read it you will understand why i avoided posing the proposition that the negative path is also on the eventual vector which lead to oneness with the creator. this is a typical christian fundamentalist response to what we know is truth.

quote:
i agree that we have the freedom to chose and it is a god given freedom. however, from a christian standpoint i will have to go with what our lord said, "he did not put his trust in man....for he knew what was in man." - jn 2:24....and what is in man? "the human heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" - jeremiah 17:9. man is not the answer because we are not progressing but regressing. every nation on the face of the earth goes through this same thing...from the roman empire, the persion empire, the european empire and even israel itself. the human heart is truly wicked and just our life here in america has shown that. freedom only brings rebellion against god or the standards that were originally set up in a particular nation. when given the choice we choose selfishness as a whole and we choose to follow the dictates of our heart.i realize not everyone is this way but for the most part human nature has to be taught selflessness. we already are selfish. i also would like to think that we all could solve the problem of selfishness if we could just band together and do good things. that, however, i have found is an impossible task. the greatest call for the human being is to love god with all of your heart, mind, soul and strength and love your neigbor as you love yourself. this command is impossible to follow! i have tried and become extremely frustated and it was not until i surrendered everything that i am, i hope to be, or have in this world that i knew i couldn't. thank god i got to that place or i would be one frustrated and angry person. the answer to this worlds problems is the change that comes when a person surrenders his whole being and puts his trust in the savior. until then we will be forever regressing.


at this point i would like to make a response to that individual but it would be like throwing snowballs into a bonfire.

it will be interesting to view your responses to this persons defenses.
love and light,
berry

[kundalini]

i can see why you would get frustrated with that berry. i have been in similar positions with christian friends and such. i don't have anything to do with it now. i'm not a great debater like dw anyway. i have my ideas, others have their beliefs. i wouldn't want to interfere with what they seem to be polarised for in this incarnation. but i have found a rarely tell people my ideas about the bigger picture. its just too much of a can of worms. i'd sooner just tell them i love them. that expresses it better than going into the details, however confused that might leave them.

[billybobbutterball]

an acquaintance of mine who does a weekly poll/survey whatever you want to call it, asked this question of his contact this week:

[ freewill, is first of all and primarily the ultimate bestowed gift of the creator. the opportunity to make choices is the means by which a person is able to grow spiritually as well as intellectually. if one considers that the human spirit is an eternal being experiencing a series of physical human existances, then there are no wrong choices but only lessons to be learned which is what physical incarnation is all about as that spiritual entity evolves toward unity with the one inifinite creator and ultimate spiritual maturity. those choice which are presented to an individual are in fact catalysts for which the main purpose is to stimulate the individual to chose between serving self, or serving others. service to self does nothing to advance the evolution of an individuals spiritual growth whereas service to others not only advances the self and higher self, but those to whom the service is rendered. consequently, as a spirit (soul) evolves there will be a learning curve which in the culmination of the lessons will influence the individual to make the positive, upward, service to others choice

hi guys, bbb here.

as one of the moderators i saw berry's post when it was being approved. i wrote berry my impressions at the time. he agreed with my observation and kindly invited me to bring my caveats to the thread. rather than write something new, i chose the lazy path! here is the original private message to berry. berry explained that he tried to accomodate his letter to fit the situation. that is understandable...

hi berry,,,. bill g here.

i'm lousy at finding theads, etc. so am waiting for someone smarter to approve your post.


to jump the gun i have two thought about it...my biggest concern is this statement of yours:

"service to self does nothing to advance the evolution of an individuals spiritual growth whereas service to others not only advances the self and higher self, but those to whom the service is rendered. consequently, as a spirit (soul) evolves there will be a learning curve which in the culmination of the lessons will influence the individual to make the positive, upward, service to others choice "

from past things you have written i'm surprised since you know as well as i do that the "left hand" negative path certainly does advance one spiritually -- right up to the early 6th density where they finally hit the glass ceiling and have to flip polarity to keep on advancing ... which they can do relatively easily because of the tremendous level of self-discipline they have acquired. and the ra states that through their service they are able to bring a wealth of data to the table that is much appreciated.

another point concerns the so-called freedom of the will...which you are defining by the mere effect of "choice" rather than its underlying cause, which is a product of one's "nature"...i like the description that the will consists of "the abiding inclination of the permanent spirtual self".

the truth is that in the special sense of "self determination" the will is indeed free, but on the other side of the coin it is in turn bound by its own nature....as martin luther argued in his stunning response to erasmus, via his great work, "on the bondage of the will"

although most everyone assumes that they have free will as a 'given' they can't really define it. the truth is that the supposedly holy grail concept of "free will" is more apparent than real. think about it...even the will of the one creator is not the freedom of unbridled almightiness but rather it is will governed by the creator's underlying absolute nature.

well, that was more windy than intended!

good cheers, berry, i do appreciate your posts very much... (sorry i once called you "beery" via typo...it was not done by a free will decision!)

concerning the feebleness of "free will"...it has been said that in any contest between the will and the imagination, finds imagination winning hands down.

best (apologies that i'm coming in so very late!) luv, etc. billybobbutterball

[kundalini]

concerning the feebleness of "free will"...it has been said that in any contest between the will and the imagination, finds imagination winning hands down.

thanks for giving some insight there billy. you lost me with this last bit though. i'm not really sure why free will is in competition with imagination. i don't understand the connection. i'm not saying your statement is wrong. i think i'm either missing something or just lacking the practical intelligence to comprehend the connection.