Oneness without law, principles, or will?
i'd like to see if the oneness of love (or "god") with no law (principles) or will to keep it all together. if there are principles that sustain life then there must also be the option of going against it, otherwise we're mere robots programed to evolve (change) on our own. we have the choice to be perfected in god's image by following his will in his word and praying for his spirit of love and understanding (avoiding pressumptous thinking) and share god's love for us (though we are mortal imperfect beings), but we also have the choice to live like beasts (2nd density) and die (returning to 1st density). if we were perfect beings, why would we need to evolve? if we were really "evolving", why do we would have have a "survival of the fittest" mentality and de-evolving in order to adapt to the norms of beast-like behavior? why seek self-discovery and worth when god already has given us a life to take responsability for and already values us for our potential in christ? why serve self when god already serves us? why not serve god and keep his love and its principles flowing in us (from god to us and back to him and others) before we kill ourselves?
the genuine truth about god's law and grace has been diluted by much pagan teachings taught by "christians" such as "immortality of the soul", "sunday worship" (friday sunset to saturday sunset is the sabbath made for all humans in creation, not just for jews), "christmas" (jesus was actually born in late august or early september based on the jewish calendar), etc. human tradition we call "religion" is all pagan and self-righteous, no matter if you're a monotheist, polytheist, patheist, or secular. many take the bible out of context to suit their beliefs (or to agree with what others say), not comparing scripture with scripture and failing to engage in basic reading comprehension (asking who, what, when, where, why, how). avoid trying to make sense of it with human understanding (faulty science) or compare it to other religious ideas that you were taught, let it explain itself. you shouldn't have to be spoon-fed the bible, read it for yourself and you'll be amazed how clear it can be. the bible is full of history, prophecy, principles concerning morality and health, etc. it's life's ultimate guide book to healthy spiritual thinking. the "spiritual" isn't something "supernatural", it's a completely natural process of surrendering our selves to the will of god. if you have frontal lobes, then you're spiritual because that's where the spirit guides us, letting us be aware of our mistakes to turn learn from it (turning away from evil), accepting forgiveness and doing good the sake of love (we can't really do good without love). we all either needlessly hold on to gult letting our feelings control us or we are suppressing it, pretending that this life doesn't count and reality is a figment of our imagination.
we think lawless because we actually have suppressed fears of death and have invented a solution: abolihh the law of god! this is no solution and only enslaves us to ourselves, bringing no unity. the only solution is to accept god's grace, not out of fear of being sent back to the dust (first density) or to "earn" eternal life, but because god loves us. god is the one who first feared for our life and sent his son to save us, yet we have to do our part and grab hold of christ's hand (accept salvation). why should we fear death when there is a solution? if there was no law, then what really defines "taking responsability for my actions"?
let us not listen to that sly serpent that said that "you won't really die" if you break the principles of life, you will be like god, defining "good and evil" yourself. if you define the principles of life, you can do what you want and "repsonsability" is relative to your world. thinking for yourself is fine (it's a spititual gift), but when we assume that life is an inherent power we possess (instead of a gift of grace), it makes room for abuse of power and irresponsability. if we were really like god, we would surrender self just as god surrenders himself to us. true power is shown in surrender and true wisdom is to recognize that you don't know everything. god is truely omnipotent because he surrenders his power to us if we are willing to cooperate with him. god is all knowing because he can easily replay our memories (or the memories of angels that were near by) and also can predict the future very easily (it's nothing supernatural). ever thought of god in this way?
hi, rocky, i have to tell you that i respect where you're coming from, so please take what follows with a huge dose of salt, and freely reject that which does not work for you.
in the law of one, we are taught that the creator is infinitely patient with all, and that we are immortal beings now, always and ever. it's true that we are learning the ways of the creator, but there is no penalty for living in ways contrary to the 'rules' of the creator other than life conspiring with one's own higher self to present one's lessons in a different form - with infinite patience.
there are better ways to live for us all, more in harmony with the universe and the nature of the creator, and all are finding their own road, at their own pace, in their own time.
it seems to me that every creator must experience it's own creation, and the one infinite creator experiences the full richness of creation in a self imposed state of forgetting and mystery, having split into untold trillions of parts, each part holographically being the literal fullness of the creator - each 'part' unique and offering a unique take on reality, and in this the creator creates for itself the richness of virtually infinite variety of experience. from this, it follows that the creator and all that manifests in creation is one; inseparable in identity and actual being, yet on a journey of discovery and multiple states of experiencing, as opposed to only an infinite state of static potential, with no dynamic movement, or realization of potential.
given this state of forgetting and mystery and apparent manyness the creator moves into, it follows that the journey of the 'created' lifeforms is purposely mysterious, confused, alternating with the richness of joy and sorrow, and prone to wandering in the wilderness. we are taught in the loo that there is no right or wrong approach to life, as the glory is in the discovery of experiencing and illumination of each lifeform, whatever the nature of the experience that leads to illumination.
the loo offers that there is no spiritual death, damnation or dissolution back into first density; only a continued becoming and evolving in fits and starts. the concept of punishment or divine retribution seems merely a human construct, an attempt to explain suffering. suffering may be seen as that which guides or cajoles life into situations of potential growth; the soul's attainment is permanent, while suffering is always temporary, and only ever serves to catalyse further growth.
here, no one need have fear of incurring the wrath of the creator; i believe there is no such thing. all are tending upward in the long haul, and any perceived backward steps seem mere blips on an ever ascending road. this applies to all, without exception. no one is left behind. one is free to make their own rules; life itself will teach one the value of their rules, and one will change them as one goes along, to be more and more reflective of the loving nature of the creator. this is a perfectly natural process, and the way its supposed to be. our salvation is ours to craft, as we see fit - and there is no wrong method. the fact that we are the creator in full necessitates that we will inexorably be called forward, none could ultimately resist this process if they tried.
so, really, it's all about learning to enjoy the ride, throw off the shackles of fear, and learning the ways of love from one's own experience and inner guidance. the only valid instruction manual is of one's own making.
so this is offered with no pressure; it won't resonate with many in the world, and that's also the way its supposed to be, and okay. some persons rightfully need to work within the parameters of an outer authority - this is a valid alternate realtity for some. so do please throw this right in the wastebasket if this is not good for you.
peace and happy trails, mark
right out of my mouth
haha, mark i was going to say the same thing. so it looks like everyone is gaining a path of service to others in one way or another. my examples that i was going to give, were that just as a child grows into an adult, no matter what choices were made either negative or positive that child grew into an adult regardless, just as a plant will grow from a seed to a spruce. evolution ensures that life will be lived as according to god. even though some people would like to deny it, thats just so that those individuals can learn in their own way. and regarding the bible, i haven't read the bible at all, but just from looking at how my parents raised me and how they subjugated their morals onto me subconsciously through love and rules pertaining the law of one i was able to understand at a certain age that there is more to life then what is told in the news paper and on t.v and so forth, and that i have my own world around me and that the love that i show my self, others around me in my life and vice verse is what will grant me love in the future without having to plan anything out or worry that something wrong will happen. because really if this world is about confusion and mystery, then that is there to keep you in the now and not to have you stray into wondering about false realities, just like the illusions we fantasize about in our minds. we are playing out in an illusion in god's mind and the lesson is to realize that everything around is not what it looks and that it is love expressing itself the way it wants to just like me or you. hope that helps a little
love shall prevail
which bible did you read ? i read the king james version with out any religious guidance or influence some years ago .
well to be truthful jehovah witnesses inspired me as i was sick of them knocking on my door and it really didn't sit right with me just slamming the door in there face with out knowing why so one day while in a book store i purchased a bible and read it.
first of all i will have to say that it is one of the best war manuals ever written as it documents over the centuries all the techniques used by the persons in power to defeat there enemies examples...
* fill in all the water holes or wells (no water = certain death)
* cut down all the fruit bearing tree's (no food = certain death)
* smite your enemies not once not twice but three times ( beaten into submission = broken spirit)
coincedentally the military large company's governments religions use these same techniques to control and manipulate humans in one form or another for example if you live in a city you have access to the city water supply by just turning the faucet, now what would happen to you if they turned off the water supply for some reason where would you get your water from ?
money can be perceived as an energy or even water it flows to you then you buy some thing example food then it flows to the supermarket then to an employee ect ect.
where would you get money if they turned off the money supply an example.. if the banks refused to give any one a loan ?
another good strategy is to divide and conquer what better way to divide human than to divide his mind.. he will be so busy fighting within himself that he will not be able to think and will be much easier to control.
the choice, good or evil hot or cold luke warm will be spewed from gods mouth like vomit
easy choice every one will choose good right ? as the alternative is an eternal hell fire your cries of pain and suffering will go up in smoke for ever more and god will not tolerate fence sitters.
the catch, if you just think a sinful thought you are as guilty as some one that has actually physically gone out and committed the act its self .
so if you are at your friends having a barbecue and his wife walks out and she is really hot and you think to your self man i would love to shag her your a sinner ect ect
so if you take these teachings on board every time you have a stray thought you will be thinking of your self as an unworthy sinner destined for hell and in effect have conditioned your self and learned
so to sum it up once you have accepted any teachings from any source that doesn't allow any mental freedom that doesn't involve self condemnation you have allowed yourself to be indoctrinated or programmed like a robot and forfeited your right to think and work things out for your self.
these days when jehovah witnesses come knocking i yell the word of god not man and going by whats written in the bible they should be suddenly eaten by worms
but they never are they just look like this
my perspective on the bible most likely will been seen as negative but thats my take on it one scary confusing piece of literature a must read for very one
yes, trials (sufferings) are meant to make us stronger and help bring change to the world. the "punishment" isn't something god wants for us because he loves us, wanting us to be saved from ourselves so we can live in gratitude now and really appreciate eternal life. we are the ones that punish ourselves and the creator allows us to do so, but he still loves us, giving a chance to accept that life is a gift.
Originally Posted by markm
of course there is no wrong choice in the sense that we have freewill, and service to the creator is inevitable anway. i forgot to point out that we all pass through the 1st density when we die, perhaps you could call it karma or the curse of "sin", but there is no need to fear because in this life we make the choice of entering into a timewarp (from god) to wake up to eternal life or a latter one in which you can reject it, losing your identity and the creator (and creature) having to start from scratch again.
i prefer to believe death is an unconscious sleep in the grave and that we will have the choice to wake up at the verge of a new age (christ's coming in the clouds with many angels to take us home). there are two kinds of lives. we either live here and understand we're nothing that we become something, or we think we are something and then realize we were nothing. either way, we still are something and will always be something, but not what we think we are. we are what we are because of the great i am, but we hide our identity with fantasies of running from things inside us. we are no more special than dust.
think you're eternal? perhaps that's okay if you mean dust. if you mean spirit, then thats true too, but it can only exist if kept healthy and moving. souls (our mental consciousness) cannot be eternal unless dust and spirit are one. when we become materialist or spiritualist, we are failing to understand true oneness.
god isn't an outer authority, that is what most people think and its no wonder they really don't grasp the true meaning of the gospel of salvation. god is sustains everything from within with his spirit and when we accept this grace and really cherish it, we are already saved, being saved, and will be saved (by faith in grace). jesus (the salvation of god) was merely the manifestation of the way to eternal life (through his surrender to god) and is meant to be something internal. even those who don't know "jesus" they can see god's grace manifested in nature and the spirit will reveal to their conscience the principles of life.
Originally Posted by markm
it's a big mistake to completely externalize the forces of light and darkness as if we were just spectators watching a sports game. such struggles in personal life wouldn't even exist if it weren't internal. the internal is manifest externally and the external can have influence in the internal (if we allow it). many christians fear the mark of the beast and yet ignore that beast is within them and has it's mark of "sin" (pride). god wants us to seal us with his spirit, but we first need let go of the the beast within. there will be a counterfeit new age in which there will become obvious who have the spirit and those who don't. the ones with the mark of the beast will have human laws and traditions (religion) that contradict the word of god. those who have the spirit will have true peace and have the god-given power to resist the beast. of course the peace begins now in our hearts. we will then go to heaven for 1000 years (with the resurrected dead in christ) and then return to earth to create a new one.
there is no need to fear (good) judgment because everyone is judged and it all begins in the mind through wisdom (revealed to us through the spirit). the only sin is to avoid mental judgement because it's how we learn and develop characters. we are the ones who punish ourselves with unresolved guilt and pride. take good care of your frontal lobes the very judgment seat of god :d
death is real yet unnecessary if we accept the graces of god in life. god doesn't want us to kill ourselves and be wiped off the earth in flames to recreate beings like us from scratch. remember that your dust still exist and it inevitable will still have some use for the creator. i'm open to the idea that god may recreate the lost in the 1st density and bring them back up to eternal life, but i don't want to use such an idea to give me a reason to purposely fail to give glory to god, destroy life myself now and wait for a new life to destroy too. i don't think god would want us to live in such kind of eternal misery, so the reasonable thing to do is erase the memory of our identity here.
i believe reincarnation is really a confusion between soul and spirit. the holy spirit is creating souls and we have the choice to destroy ourselves and believe the false accusation of "the devil" that we are too weak to cooperate with god for our change or in the other extreme, we deceive ourselves into thinking we have some inherent power to save ourselves. there is some truth in every lie, but it isn't the whole truth. it's true that we are weak, but that doesn't mean god can't give us his power to cooperate with him according to his will of love and wisdom. it's also true that god's spirit is always sustaining our life within us and will guide us, but we still have the choice to ignore god's guidance and follow the guidance of service-to-self entities in our subconscious.
true unity suggests there is a body of members with a common will and principles they follow. unity cannot really exist if we were to all depend only on self. there is no such thing as complete "independence", because we all depend on some entity within us. service to self entities don't tell the whole truth and have distorted the truth in god's word in both the christian and non-christian minds. ideas such as an inherently "immortal soul", sunday worship, christmas, etc are some examples of these distortions, but believing in such things aren't inherent evils, but can easily be used as a basis to serve self and also make oneness unnecessarily difficult. these things also contradict the understanding that life is a gift of grace, not something we earn without cooperation with god.
if we read the bible as it is with the guidance of the spirit, then we will see the truth as it really is.
the soul's life is dependent on the spirit. the true sabbath is friday sunset to saturday sunset and isn't about the sun, but the rest and gratitude in our creator who made us. jesus was born in early september, following the jewish calendar, not some pagan astrological sign. the star that appeared was a cloud of singing angels.
Last edited by rockyrojas88; 07-26-2008 at 12:58 PM.
Saved through Christ in us
technically we can't save ourself without the cooperation with christ in us. salvation is a process of following christ's example, not merely a state of consciousness. it's a choice to be responsible for yourself, wanting only what you really need, and begin grateful for what you have. it's also the choice to deny the false identity we've made for ourselves and accept the christ, the anointed (spirit filled) son of god.
there will be many false "christs" thats will try to trick us into a counterfeit path, but if we know the true christ with in us, sustaining our life (and others) then we can't be deceived.
hmm, you know...salvation is really oneness in the god within us sustaining our life. we are children of god, in essence, we are anointed as if we were gods. hmm... we're judges or jurors for ourselves but guided by the judge of judges....what's that mean? is god an extension of our oneness or is our oneness an extension of god? one thing for sure is that god is in us and we in him, yet we have the choice to "run" from god, pretending he isn't there. perhaps thats the flaw in most religions.
god isn't separate from us, he's right there in you, but you ignore him? wow, i'm sorry i've been neglecting god that has been there the whole time. the only real "sin" is to pretend god is some impersonal being outside of us that likes to see us kill ourselves. in reality, the true selves god wants us to be is eternal, but we invent false selves by following what other people or service to self entities want us to be or claim that we are. they have some truth, but not the whole truth though, which can only be found from the high self (holy spirit). what really dies is the illusionary identities we've made for ourselves. i believe we all have doppelgangers and that even extraterrestrials have doppelgangers. these doppelgangers keep us from the realization that god's love and it's principles are really all there is and it's inevitable.
overemphasis on a certain part of truth can the essence behind deception, and i've been guilty of that. the ultimate truth is oneness, but i was simply asking on what basis does this oneness have. perhaps i'm missing the point that oneness in the principle of love is inevitable....lol in oneness we will also be revealed the whole truth, but of course we won't know everything. even the first chapters of the book of romans says that we are only judged by what we know. in other words, we are to stand up for what we our beliefs based on the light (truth) we already have in oneness. it's when we ignore oneness that we fail to see the truth relevant to our personal life. when in oneness, its normal to see synchronicity because the spirit of god is guiding us all. it's like a wheel-in-a-wheel effect (metaphorically speaking). yet how do i know i'm still not creating a false god? perhaps its when i see no oneness....hmm....or is oneness inevitable? if that were true then, do i have to care about this life? perhaps i'm seeking for a reason to care but i'm missing the point that if i accept that life is a gift of god's grace and love, i will have oneness in the spirit and not make my own fantasies of being seperate from god. it's when i keep god outside of mind (conciosueness) that i'm in ego (sin).
hmm..now i'm begining to appreciate oneness.
okay, i get it now....and i shouldn't have these morbid fears of creating false gods in my image if i truely believe in the one infinite creator in me, perfecting me in his image with his spirit. the eternal life of the true selves we are meant to be (and are) is inevitable. what really dies is our doppelganger. we all have doppelgangers, no? perhaps this doppelgangers are simply misunderstandings of who are true selves are.
Last edited by rockyrojas88; 07-26-2008 at 05:48 PM.