Details on karmic hit from downloading music plz?

[johnasmodeus]

i read david's latest post, and i saw he mentioned the karmic 'hit' that you take from downloading music again. i want to understand the why and wherefore behind that hit, as presently i see nothing wrong with downloading music. (not that i do it, mind you, that would be breaking the law, and since all laws are passed in a sane and logical manner, with everyone's best interests at heart, then if the law says something is bad, then it must be. but i'm curious still.)

if i've overpaid for cds for say, ten years, then aren't i entitled, karmically, to some balance? and aren't i doing good by refusing to participate in a system that exploits talented individuals so that a handful of amoral profiteers can afford one more ivory backscratcher?

[Understanding]

that is what i was wondering....why a karmic hit shouldn't music be free anyway shouldn't everything be free. or is it the content of most music or just the act of illegally downloading it?

[meganarline]

i think i am the only person i know who still buys cd's. and they have gone down in price.

i guess one of the things is how do you draw the line. we all know that one of david's main sources of income is the science of peace series so we would never think of "sharing" that. but how about the rolling stones who have been around for ever and have more money than all of us on this forum put together.(and then some)

how about that new band that is just trying to make it big and could use a little boost.

who are we to decide well i think bob dylan has enough money so i can download his for free but the funky monkeys well this is their first album so maybe i'd better give them some money.how do we really know who (except for the obvious ones of course) needs the money and who doesn't.

i think there should be a different system all together. wasn't there some band who was letting their fans download their cd for whatever they could afford (was it radiohead? i think i bought the cd). that's not a bad idea.

but then i must admit that i have copied a couple of cds for my sister and parents so i am not without blame either.

megan

[MarkM]

jesus was asked if it was acceptable for the jews to pay taxes to their roman overlords. his answer was that as the jews used the roman legal tender, they were accepting the roman monetary system. "render unto caesar that which is caesar's, and render unto god that which is god's."

[Cal Poly Dave]

i don't see how we can take a karmic hit from downloading music either. it's free to listen to it on the radio and the internet. you can even watch music videos online for free. basically we can already access music for free anytime we want, at least if we're at a computer. what is the problem of downloading the music and making a cd or putting it on your mp3 player?

something doesn't add up for me.

the other issue for me is this, nothing is inherently good or evil. so how is downloading music "bad" or going to cause us to get some bad karma?

[meganarline]

how are they going to buy food, shelter, clothes, music. why should their service to others be free, when i get paid for my service.

we put them along with actors and sports figures up on a pedestal and allowed them to be paid these insane salaries right from the beginning. we created this situation.

yes i do think i have over paid for cds for years, but i still think they deserve to make money.

:dmegan

[conundrum]

its like a computer program some person or people had to sit there for days months possibly
longer learning to code writing the code and designing a program then every one expects to pay nothing for it.

the programmer feels used abused and unappreciated he is unable to pay his rent because nobody bothered to pay for the program and he gets kicked out of his home he experiences hard times and becomes disgruntled and ends up hooked on crack he vowels to create computer viruses till the day he dies as he so despises those whom took his work for granted.

just imagine if dw got disgruntled and hacked into your mind ufos aliens cults religions any thing could happen just pay and be grateful just imagine a world with untalented rich kids as the only source of music available eeeeeeek its already a reality what have we done. :d

[kerelious]

i must say, that i personally don't believe payment should be given to anyone, if it is deserved then it will be earned. i think that conundrum's example is completely bogus, no offense, but if someone starts smoking crack than its a personal choice to do so, it have nothing to do with someone stealing something. to me this analogy makes no sense nor is it relavent to the question asked. i do agree that we should all be grateful for the music that is made, well music that is made whole heartedly anyway. a lot of stuff on the radio, i don't consider worthy of payment, because it is made only to get paid. i do believe that they do deserve to get paid for hard work as we all do, but not to the extreme these people get paid. the current setup is wrong and we all know it is, what should be done is what few have done, and let us decide how much we will pay for it and whether it even deserves to be paid for. as dave said above, you can get the stuff for free in a "legal" way, so i don't think that it really is "stealing" it. maybe i'm wrong and i will take a hit for it, but thats the price i'm willing to pay, although if i were to directly meet any of the people whos music i have "stolen" i would gladly pay them directly. i guess my real problem is the fact that those musicians that some are trying to "defend" aren't getting paid the $10-$20 we pay for cds, they get maybe 50 cents. think about it, if we are stealing from anyone by downloading it is the record companies and huge corps. we are stealing from, not some starving artist. most musicians make their money off of tours not from cd sales, most get 10% or less of the sale cost of a cd and 10% is giving them more than most get. so again, i am sorry for those who i hurt through my "stealing" but i will continue to do so and only pay when i can pay the artist directly!

of course this is my personal feelings, but they sure do make sense huh?

peace n love to all!!
drew

[johnasmodeus]

i see a lot of good arguments here, both pro and con. i don't really want to push one side or the other here, i actually just want to know what the karmic implications are, but i do want to respond to meganarline's question, "how are the musicians going to earn a living?"

the unfortunate truth is that even if you buy a cd, you are contributing very little to those musicians earning a living. most of the money, a shockingly high percentage, goes to others, like music industry execs.

now here's the thing: music execs are parasites. they have built up this system where you need them to get your music out because they control the means of distribution. so they can charge whatever they want. it's the tina principle: "there is no alternative."

so the lion's share of what you pay goes to them, not the performers.

so the way i have come to see it, the more people stop participating in a system that deprives the performers what they really deserve, the sooner we will reach a critical mass where the ones at the top of the pyramid, who are used to getting paid tons of cash for doing comparatively nothing at the expense of those who have little personal power but put great effort into their music, will begin to get starved out.

besides, free access to music is great for the artists. i've bought music from artists i would never have even known about had i been compelled to pay to hear their music from the get-go. and even though i dislike concerts in general, i read that greater exposure results in increased attendance at performances as well. and artists usually get a bigger cut from concert attendance than they do from cds.

[dazcox]

if you download a metallica mp3 in china, where it's not illegal to do so, will your next incarnation have to pay back karma?

i downloaded most of mine before it was illegal to do from napster, will my next life be punished for all of them or just the ones after the cut off point?

will we all take a karma hit for singing "happy birthday" and not paying a royalty to whatever dork legally owns the rights to that song? even david must have broken that law!