Details on karmic hit from downloading music plz?

[johnasmodeus]

i read david's latest post, and i saw he mentioned the karmic 'hit' that you take from downloading music again. i want to understand the why and wherefore behind that hit, as presently i see nothing wrong with downloading music. (not that i do it, mind you, that would be breaking the law, and since all laws are passed in a sane and logical manner, with everyone's best interests at heart, then if the law says something is bad, then it must be. but i'm curious still.)

if i've overpaid for cds for say, ten years, then aren't i entitled, karmically, to some balance? and aren't i doing good by refusing to participate in a system that exploits talented individuals so that a handful of amoral profiteers can afford one more ivory backscratcher?

[Understanding]

that is what i was wondering....why a karmic hit shouldn't music be free anyway shouldn't everything be free. or is it the content of most music or just the act of illegally downloading it?

[MarkM]

jesus was asked if it was acceptable for the jews to pay taxes to their roman overlords. his answer was that as the jews used the roman legal tender, they were accepting the roman monetary system. "render unto caesar that which is caesar's, and render unto god that which is god's."

[Cal Poly Dave]

i don't see how we can take a karmic hit from downloading music either. it's free to listen to it on the radio and the internet. you can even watch music videos online for free. basically we can already access music for free anytime we want, at least if we're at a computer. what is the problem of downloading the music and making a cd or putting it on your mp3 player?

something doesn't add up for me.

the other issue for me is this, nothing is inherently good or evil. so how is downloading music "bad" or going to cause us to get some bad karma?

[meganarline]

how are they going to buy food, shelter, clothes, music. why should their service to others be free, when i get paid for my service.

we put them along with actors and sports figures up on a pedestal and allowed them to be paid these insane salaries right from the beginning. we created this situation.

yes i do think i have over paid for cds for years, but i still think they deserve to make money.

:dmegan

[conundrum]

its like a computer program some person or people had to sit there for days months possibly
longer learning to code writing the code and designing a program then every one expects to pay nothing for it.

the programmer feels used abused and unappreciated he is unable to pay his rent because nobody bothered to pay for the program and he gets kicked out of his home he experiences hard times and becomes disgruntled and ends up hooked on crack he vowels to create computer viruses till the day he dies as he so despises those whom took his work for granted.

just imagine if dw got disgruntled and hacked into your mind ufos aliens cults religions any thing could happen just pay and be grateful just imagine a world with untalented rich kids as the only source of music available eeeeeeek its already a reality what have we done. :d

[kerelious]

i must say, that i personally don't believe payment should be given to anyone, if it is deserved then it will be earned. i think that conundrum's example is completely bogus, no offense, but if someone starts smoking crack than its a personal choice to do so, it have nothing to do with someone stealing something. to me this analogy makes no sense nor is it relavent to the question asked. i do agree that we should all be grateful for the music that is made, well music that is made whole heartedly anyway. a lot of stuff on the radio, i don't consider worthy of payment, because it is made only to get paid. i do believe that they do deserve to get paid for hard work as we all do, but not to the extreme these people get paid. the current setup is wrong and we all know it is, what should be done is what few have done, and let us decide how much we will pay for it and whether it even deserves to be paid for. as dave said above, you can get the stuff for free in a "legal" way, so i don't think that it really is "stealing" it. maybe i'm wrong and i will take a hit for it, but thats the price i'm willing to pay, although if i were to directly meet any of the people whos music i have "stolen" i would gladly pay them directly. i guess my real problem is the fact that those musicians that some are trying to "defend" aren't getting paid the $10-$20 we pay for cds, they get maybe 50 cents. think about it, if we are stealing from anyone by downloading it is the record companies and huge corps. we are stealing from, not some starving artist. most musicians make their money off of tours not from cd sales, most get 10% or less of the sale cost of a cd and 10% is giving them more than most get. so again, i am sorry for those who i hurt through my "stealing" but i will continue to do so and only pay when i can pay the artist directly!

of course this is my personal feelings, but they sure do make sense huh?

peace n love to all!!
drew

[johnasmodeus]

i see a lot of good arguments here, both pro and con. i don't really want to push one side or the other here, i actually just want to know what the karmic implications are, but i do want to respond to meganarline's question, "how are the musicians going to earn a living?"

the unfortunate truth is that even if you buy a cd, you are contributing very little to those musicians earning a living. most of the money, a shockingly high percentage, goes to others, like music industry execs.

now here's the thing: music execs are parasites. they have built up this system where you need them to get your music out because they control the means of distribution. so they can charge whatever they want. it's the tina principle: "there is no alternative."

so the lion's share of what you pay goes to them, not the performers.

so the way i have come to see it, the more people stop participating in a system that deprives the performers what they really deserve, the sooner we will reach a critical mass where the ones at the top of the pyramid, who are used to getting paid tons of cash for doing comparatively nothing at the expense of those who have little personal power but put great effort into their music, will begin to get starved out.

besides, free access to music is great for the artists. i've bought music from artists i would never have even known about had i been compelled to pay to hear their music from the get-go. and even though i dislike concerts in general, i read that greater exposure results in increased attendance at performances as well. and artists usually get a bigger cut from concert attendance than they do from cds.

[dazcox]

if you download a metallica mp3 in china, where it's not illegal to do so, will your next incarnation have to pay back karma?

i downloaded most of mine before it was illegal to do from napster, will my next life be punished for all of them or just the ones after the cut off point?

will we all take a karma hit for singing "happy birthday" and not paying a royalty to whatever dork legally owns the rights to that song? even david must have broken that law!

[Rhonda]

as i weigh on this question, one of the ten commandments comes to mind

" thou shalt not steal "

explaining on this act, when one assumes, based on their own will, they are entitled to another's item (will) by taking what is not meant to be given freely by that person or representive, it is a form of stealing something that is not yours. we are also judging to the conidtions of how to obtain something that is not currently ours.

as i agree, everything should be available to each of us., without conditions, it is also the the underlining spiritual growth we are seeking to become, to give freely and unconditionally from our hearts. the conditions or un-conditionals comes from each of us, by the creator's gift of our power of free will.

we can not assume, we are entitled without asking the will of another, you are stepping into their free will which they may have applied a value to what you want.

perhaps the true question, is more related to the type of exchange for goods or services we offer to one another. it does not always have to default to $$, it could be trades, service, ious type stuff. trade a cd for another type of arrangement.