Is Rock n Roll Evil? [Archive] - Divine Cosmos Discussions

IAmSaidI

11-12-2007, 08:32 PM

hi!
this is an interesting question. here are my thoughts about this.

as we move out of typical third dimensional thinking in an attempt to raise our vibrational levels, we tend to move away from viewing things in terms of "good" and "evil." that is because these concepts, which are dualistic in nature, tend to perpetuate the illusion of separation. ideally, (another term of distortion that implies one path is better than another) we are moving toward the experience of oneness. even "evil," then, is an expression of god, or the one, or the all that is experiencing all things.

as a musician, you understand the ideas of resonation and harmony. as humans, we "resonate" with certain people, certain ideas, particular songs, etc. it is interesting that you pay more attention to the harmonies than the lyrics. some might say the lyrics and then often the song videos are of a lower vibration than the music itself. another way to look at it might be to say that the lyrics sometimes (but not always) distort the "message" of the music. also (and i think this is the gist of your question) i do believe that some songs, scores, melodies, rhythms, etc. are of a higher vibrational frequency than others.

i agree with you - some of the most beautiful scores are contained within rock and even metal songs. some people find themselves attracted to a certain rhythm or harmony in some particular rap song, despite their best efforts to insist they "hate rap."

my teenaged son happens to listen to "hardcore" and sometimes "screamo" music. he finds himself constantly defending the music to some of his friends who think the music is "of the devil." interestingly, a lot of "hardcore" lyrics promote messages of oneness. however, some might argue that hardcore music contains little to no harmonies and therefore the "music" is nothing more than guitar distortions which are of a lower vibrational frequency than "pure" notes. hmmm, this is very interesting. i would love to hear your ideas about this!

i like to approach different kinds of music like different pieces of art. beautiful landscapes and still lifes are always beautiful to look at. but other works, which some might label as disturbing, are also valuable. edvard munch's famous the scream, for example, is always mildly disturbing to me, yet somehow comforting or somehow healing at the same time.

there is also the matter of the artist's perspective. writing music, playing music, painting, etc. are all creative experiences that might bring healing to the creator. everything then, has its place. the most violent, misogynistic rap lyrics seem unharmonious to me, but perhaps are healing to the artist who writes and sings them.

i would like to hear other people's opinions on what some may understand to be music that is of a lower vibrational quality. does consistently listening to distorted guitar lower the vibrational frequencies in our physical and etheric bodies? i suspect we are best served by varying the music we listen to. it sounds, flachiefsfan, that you already do this.

thanks for this question ... i can't wait to read more.

charles obscure

11-12-2007, 08:43 PM

after watching an interesting video on sound therapy a while back, the main premise of the teaching was that sounds themselves are generally not good or bad it has more to do with the intent behind the sound, or a mix of both. sound and intent. so its my feeling that the answer to your question is that it depends. in most cases i would say no, but i would like to do more research on the topic...

i was watching a program about a girl who had a condition called synasthesia where she could see colors and experience tastes associated with sounds. she reported often seeing beautiful colors associated with certain sounds, but interestingly said she couldnt stand going to the local night clubs/discos with her friends as the music there caused her to see rather unappealing colors and giant black squares reverberating out of the speakers with the throbbing bass.

its an interesting topic id like to learn more about. my underlying feeling is that we are accustomed to certain sounds from a young age, and gain distortions towards certain sounds. some of these are positive in origin some negative. i think even the negative can have a therapeutic effect on some depending on their current distortion. i think its a pretty complex topic, without a lot of generalities, but i do believe that much of the music in the rock vein we have been accustomed to, acts as a kind of stimulant almost like a drug, and (this was also mentioned on the sound therapy thing) loud music no matter what the genre stimulates the fight or flight adrenaline response in humans automatically. this is not really a healing or therapeautic process -- generally speaking.

so basically what im saying is that i think there are negative/postitive/ and neutral forms of rock music, but that we have distortions towards certain styles for whatever reason, perhaps we like certain sounds that resonate with the chaos around us at this time. i suspect there are forms of music incredibly healing and spiritual, that transend physical reality, that we have not yet really tapped into fully. we have only scratched the surface so to speak.

charles obscure

11-12-2007, 09:41 PM

for the record i also love rock music! led zeppelin is my favorite rock band, i also love megadeth -- hangar 18. that whole rip album is pretty amazing...i teach guitar lessons and have always had a love of music...im trying to learn 'take no prisoners' right now on guitar it is a challenging song! so yeah, music is where its at for me, but i dont enjoy some rock concerts to tell you the truth where i just get my ear drums blown out, and that is an example i think where the approach could be done much better i think generally speaking. i like to be able to hear the ~music, the local folk fests and such is where ive seen some of the best live performances, for me music is more of a spiritual thing and id like to inspire people that way..

im still searching for a different/new vibe kind of thing, but ill always love rock music. i think some of the energy there is definetely a mix of positive and negative, but the path we seek in fact is the middle path, to embrace both the positive and negative is a healthy thing in balance i feel...ra speaks of acting out negative emotions on the mental plane instead of in actions not resonant with the law of one. therefore i think rock and many other forms of music can be a very healthy way of creatively expressing such things, in a manner which i feel in most cases turns out to be a service to others.

Teresamh7

11-12-2007, 11:38 PM

there is no way i could be led to believe that any music is evil. i enjoy it all. i was raised in a very musical family and my father played every instrument imaginable. it is an expression/art form. myself, i enjoy the poetry of artists like jim morrison and john lennon, etc and the hard rock genre always seemed to attract me as well. it makes my day to hear a song i love! my mood always improves rather than decline when there is any type of music involved. music is natural i believe, and very therapeutic. people relax in different ways and all of us have had our emotions stirred by something we heard and felt was beautiful. i have many wonderful memories tied to great music. metal or mozart shouldn't matter, should it?

funny you should mention this at this time as a friend's band has begun to play the club scene near me again and i have found it a great opportunity to share some of my newly acquired knowledge with old friends, and i feel blessed by this chance to grow and share with them again. i am already reaping new rewards!

it will be interesting to hear what others have to say....but for me, i say rock on! you can listen to the more calming stuff when you meditate or shop. lol. unless of course that is the stuff you enjoy all the time.

something else, my friend feels like he "channels" (for lack of a better way of explaining it) sometimes when he is on stage, although he does not understand that fully....and i am not talking about possession in the dogmatic sense. any others?

wonderful question!

peace and love,
teresa

flachiefsfan

11-13-2007, 03:44 AM

hi!
interestingly, a lot of "hardcore" lyrics promote messages of oneness. however, some might argue that hardcore music contains little to no harmonies and therefore the "music" is nothing more than guitar distortions which are of a lower vibrational frequency than "pure" notes. hmmm, this is very interesting. i would love to hear your ideas about this!

writing music, playing music, painting, etc. are all creative experiences that might bring healing to the creator. everything then, has its place. the most violent, misogynistic rap lyrics seem unharmonious to me, but perhaps are healing to the artist who writes and sings them.

does consistently listening to distorted guitar lower the vibrational frequencies in our physical and etheric bodies? i suspect we are best served by varying the music we listen to. it sounds, flachiefsfan, that you already do this.

first of all, thanks to all who have read this topic and to those who have responded.

great post, iamsaidi! as a musician, there is a certain sound we all look for in regard to vibrational frequencies. that's why so many guitarists stand out from one another, not just in their sounds, but in their style of playing. some of eddie van halens leads give me goose bumps when i hear them! when i put a hard rock lead to "the heart of reiki," it sounded like it was meant to be in there. despite the distortion, the root notes are still the same, even with hardcore metal, which is mainly in the key of e or down-tuned to the key of d.

many rock leads are based on a major pentatonic or minor pentatonic scales, or a variation of scales such as mixolydian dorian, phrygian, onian or one of my favorites, aeolian.

one of my favorite leads is in night ranger's "don't tell me you love me" which is in sharp contrast to what i am practicing spiritually. i still listen to the song and play along with it, because it gives me good vibrations despite the message it sends. in psychology, we call this cognitive dissonance!

my grandfather immigrated to the us from spain in the early 1900's. he played the most beautiful spanish-style guitar i ever heard, and he taught himself how to play guitar! when i was a kid, he bought me my first electric guitar. after he passed on, i wrote a spanish-style song in his memory and played it for my mother, who joyously cried after hearing it. that's what music is all about.

i recently wrote and recorded a hard rock song called "std" which is an awareness song about using protection during sex. i used a drum track and layed down the bass, lead and rhythm guitar, and sang lead and background vocals for the song. if i knew how to play drums, i would have done that too! it's fun playing other people's music, but it brings you into a whole new realm of creativity when you can write your own. an energy flows within you during this process that feeds the development of the song. it's fascinating!

they say the hands are an extension of the heart. in my opinion, music is a gift that has been shared through out the centuries, regardless of genre. the message, however, may be viewed differently. many times, when i listen to the "lyrics", i'm not actually listening to the written lyrics, but to the melody of the lyrics and how they symbiotically enmesh with the instruments. metallica's "master of puppets" is a song about the evils of cocaine, yet it has an amazing guitar riff and a good melody behind the lyrics, while sending a positive message.

i guess that's the trifecta in music?

ThinkingWolf

11-13-2007, 05:07 AM

when i exercise indoors, the stereo is very loud. the sound itself isolates me from most else. conversely, when i exercise outdoors, i wear no personal audio device, i join with my surroundings - especially in the forest. if in the busy time of the city, i day dream.

i was raised with music in the background frequently... beatles, simon & garfunkel, mamas & the papas, a mix of classical & folk too. i now still listen to them, but often prefer much stronger instrumentation.

i am one who really prefers that the lyrics say something, but non-vocal compositions are just as moving to me. i can not get by poor lyrics. as for "hard rock," the classics are for me: led zeppelin, pink floyd. i have found surprisingly pleasing and strange lyrics from live and almost always excellent lyrics matching superior musicianship from rush. non-pop genesis is great as well. as for non-vocals: tangerine dream. i listened to a bit of old chicago the other night... compositions, not just songs. almost without exception, classical is played in the mornings of the weekend.

obviously just a few bits, and highly subjective. there is so much to choose from... if i am home, music is on.

pajamabiker

11-13-2007, 09:22 AM

thanks for bringing up this subject.
there is a song "the road goes on for ever" by robert earl keen or joe ely, that that had me really conflicted.
i hate the subject of the lyrics but i can't help my self, i really like the song.
i finally decided to accept it as just one of those things.
the song is not going to make me a bad person.
understanding the feeling of conflict is one of the things that makes me me.

MarkM

11-13-2007, 04:38 PM

great thread, everyone!

i've played and taught rock and blues guitar for decades, and also at one point became fairly proficient at old school scottish/celtic fiddle playing at one point in my life.

i'm also a great fan of baroque, classical and romantic era symphonic and chamber music. a good piece of music, regardless of genre, will often cause me to not only cry, but sob uncontrollably!

a 'good' piece of music is, of course, subjective to the listener -- my sons will often exhibit the same emotional response to 'cop killing, ftw and hate all women' style rap music that i do with my music, although i personally find that style of rap repulsive.

many kids are angry with the world they find themselves in, and somehow this resonates. is this music intrinsically evil?

all paths being equal, it seems to me that this music draws out their anger, and perhaps in some way allows some kids to explore the dark depths of their anger and feelings of alienation, perhaps preventing a more dangerous form of self-expression?

i don't know. but i know my kids are all basically loving people, trying to find peace and accomodation with the world, as do many of us. they play their music for me, and laugh at my distaste as they try to scandalize me. when they ask if i think it is evil, i answer, "whatever resonates with you and draws you along your own path of evolution, so be it."

some of the rap they dig (oh, no, i'm really showing my age!;) ) is surprisingly tender, touching and loving as well.

perhaps they do well to discover, in the world of 'violent' rap music, that they are not alone in the world with their anger and distaste of certain conditions they experience in life. it's not for me to judge anyone else's chosen path in life. sometimes, in order to make spiritual gain in the world, people have to start where they may have left off, so to speak, at whatever tonal level they have been at in prior life experiences.

i often think of those who have died violently in wars after brutal suffering, and after witnessing the worst of human behavior. i imagine that many people in the world today have suffered these experiences in their recent past. who among them wouldn't need to express the horrors of their experiences, or resonate with expressions thereof, to begin the healing?

music is indeed a powerful tool for becoming.

johnasmodeus

11-16-2007, 12:45 AM

is rock and roll evil? yes. and so is channeling.

:-p

ThinkingWolf

11-16-2007, 05:19 AM

generals gathered in their masses
just like witches at black masses
evil minds that plot destruction
sorcerers of deaths construction
in the fields the bodies burning
as the war machine keeps turning
death and hatred to mankind
poisoning their brainwashed minds, oh lord yeah!

politicians hide themselves away
they only started the war
why should they go out to fight?
they leave that role to the poor

time will tell on their power minds
making war just for fun
treating people just like pawns in chess
wait till their judgment day comes, yeah!

now in darkness, world stops turning
as the war machine keeps burning
no more war pigs of the power
hand of god has struck the hour
day of judgment, god is calling
on their knees, the war pigs crawling
begging mercy for their sins
satan, laughing, spreads his wings
all right now!

come on, is that not perfectly apropos?

try listening to those words with the music.

war pigscredit black sabbath - paranoid (1971)

jpstephens2012

11-16-2007, 08:11 AM

music. such a broad subject. music is a form of communication that transcends all other forms in that is a universal language that is based on the same mathematics that make the whole of creation. like all other thought forms, it can be used to sow peace and love or hatred and discord.

each piece of music is unique unto itself. it has to be analyzed as to the intent of the composer. rock, in and of itself, is no more or less evil than any other form of music. i was even forced by my own inner self recently, to modify my viewpoint regarding rap. i think one of the greatest pieces of rock ever performed was 'europa' by carlos santana. it is an instrumental piece and i frequently play it at maximum volume in my truck, which has an excellent sound system in it. i think carlos is one of the best musicians of all time in the rock genre.

that being said, there is a science behind music and sound. back in the '50's' it was noticed that rock 'n' roll was having a tremendous effect on the youth of the period. this was not wasted on the dark forces. rock was promoting rebellion within the youth of the period, against the status quo. their newfound freedom of expression was promoting a rebellion against the victorian repression of sexuality. but worse than that... it was breaking down a long standing system of racism that had been carefully crafted throughout history by the dark forces. white children were listening to "nigger music" and enjoying it! please forgive the language.
(chris please don't edit this, the truth sometimes hurts...)

it became a matter of concern for the dark forces, it was becoming a matter of national security. because of the treatment of black musicians who were being more and more invited into traditionally white areas of society, a new cry was being born, one of equality and mutual respect. the civil rights movement was born. as we moved into the '60's', something had to be done to take the nations attention away from this budding new development. people were beginning to wake up and think independently. what was needed was something big. really big.

whatever it was, it had to be something that would lift the white people into a new state of superiority. nasa was born and white people were going to space and the moon. then we were brought to the brink of nuclear war over russian missile sites being constructed in cuba. finally... vietnam.
all the while, rock 'n' roll was steadily moving along. it became the new standard of a new generation. as our government tried to move our attention from the new movement for equality by bombarding us with death and destruction, the youth of america begin resisting through the lyrics of their new found freedom of rock 'n' roll.

something had to be done by the cabal to combat this movement. two things were done. a gigantic smear campaign was started, accusing this new music of being a communist plot to break down american youth, and the weaker elements were introduced to the miracle of drugs, primarily pot and lsd. our cia was behind all of this. this had a totally unexpected result for the dark forces, it facilitated a breaking down of the barriers to enlightenment, and introduced western thought to the influence of eastern religions. a battle ensued between the forces of light and dark, played out through the music of rock 'n' roll.

in the end of this epic battle, rock music prevailed and evolved. the excitement and joy produced by rock music made it a force to be reckoned with. it would not be subdued. by the '80's' the face of rock music had changed considerably. because of the effect of music, the fact that it had dealt such deafening defeat on the dark forces, much more attention was paid to the roll of sound on the human psyche.

by the '90's' the dark had developed a new weapon in their arsenal for promoting racism. much had been learned about the human mind and the effects of sound upon it. a new wmd was developed to further the cause of racism. it was called rap. research into the effects of repetitive sounds used in hypnosis to program the human subconscious mind, developed a new means of attack on the dreaded enemy. it was discovered that low frequency vibration, coupled with repetition and negative subliminal messages, could be used to promote and activate self destructive behavior in human beings. the net effect would be a lowering of spiritual vibration resulting in the devolution of the affected party. this new attack is in full swing.

please recognize that this is all my personal opinion, developed through observation, research, and intuition. substantiating evidence abounds.

so, rock 'n' roll is not evil in itself, indeed it has been instrumental in raising consciousness and promoting enlightenment. just like information from channeled sources, discernment is paramount. what is the underlying spirit of the piece? does it promote peace, love, and unity, or does it promote hatred, prejudice, and division? that is the question to be answered.

yours in the light and love of the infinite creator,

jim stephens

jdlejeune

11-16-2007, 09:21 AM

musical guy here too. i pulled away from the sterotypical "negative" stuff for quite awhile (metallica to inubus to gnr to linkin park) and really focused on what the more "positive" bands/sounds were doing for me. it was nice, but i still have that part of me which loves to rock out!

i agree that you come through it and there simply is no longer a negative/positive. it simply becomes what resonates and what doesn't. it's like a preference for sweet over salty. i don't judge one as good or bad, they simply are and i simply am. lol.

actually went out to the bars for a rock show last night (white cowbell oklahoma). was the first time having gone out to the bar outside of my own gigs there! i play with a band called [name]. our old music was very non-genre specific (as you'll see by our recordings on the net). but we are moving into a more rock sound now and i (as a percussionist) am finding it difficult to play with the band, even though i like the sound.

my own musical dilemas i guess!

peace.

jdlejeune

11-16-2007, 09:24 AM

...also wanted to say that i just noticed that the band i saw last night hadn't been in town for a number of years. they actually were last here right when i was beginning my (conscious) spiritual journey. i've come a long way since then and it's nice i was able to celebrate coming full circle on the "negative" music by going to see them!

as for rock 'n' roll being evil...one phrase that was shouted out a lot last night was "god hates cowbell". haha.

Firewalker

11-16-2007, 10:04 AM

i think rock and roll is largely fine but am no fan of upside down pentagrams with goats in them being displayed at these places.

the real question is, when you're at a concert do you pitch your hand to the sign of the devil when everyone else does?

but then, most bands have an awareness and don't do stupid things. slipknot for instance, nine pointed star with main point at the top, not the bottom.

DGCrow

11-17-2007, 12:08 AM

wow! supercool thread!

i'm not sure where to start, so first i'll say music is one thing that's helped me not come totally unglued. i'm mostly a rock listener, but i really dig some vivaldi at times, as well as an eclectic mix of other music.

i hadn't considered markm's view on people expressing themselves musically due to traumas of past lives, but now i think that makes a lot of sense. thanks for that insight.

teresamh7, you mentioned a musician you knew said he "channels" while performing. i've been playing the guitar for twenty-some years, not professionally and only with a few public performances. i have noticed that there is that "zone" i can get into, when the playing is almost effortless, dare i say, self-less? perhaps musicians and other performers are being guided by their higher self during these periods. thought i'd throw that out for what it's worth.

thanks to thinkingwolf for posting the lyrics to black sabbath's "war pigs"! the music may seem ominous to some, but to me it is inspiring. i don't play the drums, but when that song plays i find myself air-drumming! :cool: the lyrical content does in fact seem as appropriate today as it was in 1971. the first time i really listened to that song was in 1996. i remember thinking that this song had a timeless quality to it. until then i never appreciated heavy metal that much. i too enjoy the music of led zeppelin (though to me they're not heavy metal as black sabbath is labeled). zep has gotten a lot of negative press, reference dark arts, aleister crowley, etc. perhaps i'm naive, but i just don't believe they could have created such great music without having a predominantly positive polarization. i remember reading somewhere that led zeppelin's music is for people who are interested in the future.

looking forward to a great future for us all!

doug

flachiefsfan

11-17-2007, 02:25 PM

the real question is, when you're at a concert do you pitch your hand to the sign of the devil when everyone else does?
you know what? i do that, but only in jest. i've never interpreted it as doing something that's demonic or in the support of satan. i just do it because it makes me laugh at how silly it is.

the catch phrase of the 2000's is appropriate to how i feel about it: "it is what it is" and to me, it's not deviltry, it's humor.

DGCrow

11-17-2007, 04:12 PM

flachiefsfan

11-18-2007, 04:26 AM

i remember seeing a show about heavy metal where the so-called "sign of the devil" was discussed by ronnie james dio. according to this program mr. dio is given credit for popularizing this hand gesture in the music world. he stated the name for this sign, but i don't recall what he said. he stated it was something his italian grandmother taught him. she said it was a way to counter someone giving you the "evil eye".

i haven't researched this any further, and i myself am still undecided about its real significance. i know in yoga and other eastern traditions certain hand positions are said to channel/activate certain energy pathways in the physical body.

perhaps someone can elaborate further on this.

peace,
doug

for what it's worth:

gene simmons claimed to have first introduced the sign to heavy metal, when he was shown extending his little finger and index finger on the cover of kiss' 1977 album love gun, although his claim is disputed. on the other hand, gene simmons has, even before the love gun lp, shown this sign on stage or during photo sessions (for example japan, april 1977). the common cited examples however show simmons making the gesture with the thumb extended, which is rather a different gesture which means "i love you" and had been used well before this. gene claims he was inspired by 60's marvel comics, especially doctor strange and also spider-man who would extend his index and little finger whilst using his middle fingers to trigger his web shooters to shoot a line of webbing.

ronnie james dio in an interview for the movie "metal: a headbanger's journey" also disputed gene simmons' claims saying "...although gene simmons will tell you that he invented it but then again gene invented breathing and shoes and everything you know."

in heavy metal music, ronnie james dio also used this sign, and is known for popularizing its usage in heavy metal. his italian grandmother used it to ward off the evil eye (malocchio). dio began using the sign soon after joining (1979) the metal band black sabbath. the previous singer in the band, ozzy osbourne, was rather well known at using the "peace" sign at concerts, raising the index and middle finger in the form of a v. dio, in an attempt to connect with the fans, wanted to similarly use a hand gesture. however, not wanting to copy osbourne, he chose to use the sign his grandmother always made.

both accounts are predated by the chicago based psychedelic-goth band coven, led by singer jinx dawson who made the gesture on their 1969 album cover for "witchcraft destroys minds and reaps souls". incidentally, the band also wrote a song called "black sabbath," and one of the band members was named oz osborne, not to be confused with ozzy osbourne of black sabbath fame. the horns became famous in metal concerts very soon after black sabbath's first tour with dio.

metal fans displaying the sign at a festival.pre-dating either ronnie james dio, or gene simmons' use of the "devil's hand", on the cover of the beatles' 'yellow submarine' album (dec 1968, uk, jan 1969, usa), john lennon's right hand is making the sign above paul mccartney's head. for many fans, this was one of the many "paul is dead" clues.

also pre-dating dio and simmons, frank zappa was known to use the gesture (as can be seen on the dvd "baby snakes" filmed in 1977).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/corna

johnasmodeus

11-18-2007, 08:30 PM

nice breakdown, jim.

my instincts have long indicated that music only becomes negative once it comes under corporate control. we need only look as far as what a lifetime of corporate music has done to britney spears for evidence of this. by their fruits ye shall know them and all that hoohah.
:-)

rap, i think, is no more inherently negative or positive than the rest of it. but when you have a situation where money is being pumped into the image machine to popularize artists and songs whose message is (and quite a lot, but not all, of rap today seems to be running this message) "being poor, ignorant, and violent are good things and will make you popular," then i believe we are dealing with what is a very negative influence, and it often scares me that more people don't recognize it as such.

pop, and this is the main reason i couldn't stand the music in the late eighties and early nineties, is no less sinister in that all the songs revolve around second-chakra issues: love and relationships, desire, rejection, fulfillment and betrayal. it keeps listeners focused at a very low level of psycho-energetic development by consistently portraying what the svadhisthana chakra represents as the pinnacle of human interaction.

violent rap moves into third-chakra issues of externalized anger and control, though to tell you the truth, i don't which one is more destructive. at least rap, understood thus, represents energetic progress.

but i do like quite a lot of rap and r&b. you have to be ready to analyze, then pick and choose what you will let into your brain on a regular basis.

d. franz zzyrch clark

11-19-2007, 11:55 AM

simply put, evil is the mere negation of light. music that is put forth as a message to encourage negation of light(or the higher centers of being) is idol-worship...putting something in front of the supreme entity is a hindrance to spiritual awareness.but i too enjoy some of guns 'n' roses & an apparent offshoot of that band- velvet revolver.but the lyrics to me are only another instrumental part,as if they were saxophones or trumpets.exposure thereof does not make want to partake in any pagan rituals...(the only thing that impedes my born-again state is my own stupidity) -and if i want meaningful lyrics,there's always mr. bob dylan.

myconsumerclub

11-19-2007, 10:03 PM

rock and roll isn't evil it's just music. just like guns don't kill people people kill people. but then again people do drugs at concerts and we all know drugs are bad. trying to sound like the dude on southpark there but you get were i'm coming from. that is all individual choice and if listening to music makes you want to do drugs then you have other deeper issues so don't blame the music.

i too love rock some of my favorites are yes, symphony x, dream theater, cacophony, yngwie, rush, elp, genesis, kansas, deep purple, led zeppelin, pink floyd, scorpions, black sabbath, savatage, queen, andy timmons, al di meola, eric johnson, joe satriani, shawn lane, greg howe, gary moore i can go on forever. as a musician i love being onstage and playing music and creating that special moment it's better than any high a drug can give you.

there are plenty of socially responsible bands that offer up positive messages to people. i especially love the music of yes and the work of maestro's wakeman and howe. they take the responsibility of writting uplifting music that you can listen too all day and feel great and have a good attitude without a lot of anger and or doomy feelings to interfere with your vibe.

sure every artist goes through dark periods exploring the feelings they have but most of us grow up and get away from the darker stuff and start to write material that evolves into more than flated 5th's and diminished scales unless your yngwie that is but there is so much to be said within a composition and it can take people into realms of imagination and stimulate you to ponder worlds of escapist fantasy or make you wonder what the artist was feeling at the time they wrote it.

perhaps it's just an exploration of new scalar territory and a pretentious shred fest or it could be a deeply felt passion that an artist is trying to use to convey their feelings of love for someone special or a sadness for someone who has passed. whatever it is they are communicating it is something that is not evil that can touch us all and have a profound effect on how we feel. music should be used to excite and uplift and entertain us all at the same time.

i thank god that i have been blessed with the talent to play guitar and piano and the wonderful musicians that i have had the privilidge to play and record music with. it connects us to a family that we all can belong to. :cool:

flachiefsfan

11-20-2007, 02:51 PM

yngwie
my favorite guitarist!!!

d. franz zzyrch clark

11-20-2007, 03:49 PM

rock and roll isn't evil it's just music... sure every artist goes through dark periods exploring the feelings they have but most of us grow up and get away from the darker stuff and start to write material that evolves into more than flated 5th's and diminished scales...

-i agree,except about what you said about the flatted fifth or augmented fourth. it is a device found in folk music from many cultures & in bartok (he studied his native hungarian roots in the folk-song format) but i know what you're saying- this particular interval is overused.

DGCrow

11-23-2007, 04:53 PM

just wanted to send out a belated thanks to flachiefsfan for the information about the "heavy metal hand signal".

on a sidenote, at our family thanksgiving dinner, the kids (ages 9-11) were flashing me this "rock on" sign! they seemed to be doing it in a positive manner, so i just had to smile.

peace,
doug

pajamabiker

11-26-2007, 09:20 AM

i just heard the most unusual song.
the carpenters did a song called "calling occupents of interplanetary craft"
most unexpected.

music=geometry

11-26-2007, 11:42 AM

most of the music i listen to makes me feel good, makes me feel energized, regardless of what is said. sometimes i get so into the music that it's like i'm meditating while dancing, and just sharing love and energy with others.

as for evil lyrics, i have heard my share, but only give credence to it by believing it (like voodoo i guess)

besides, i love the video of muppets do death metal on youtube. pure comedy!

DGCrow

11-26-2007, 08:56 PM

hi all. wanted to point out a band to pajamabiker and anyone else interested. pajamabiker mentioned a song called "calling occupants of interplanetary craft".

this song was written and recorded by a canadian band named klaatu. a close friend of mine used to play me his father's klaatu lp's. just so happens his father and mother were into edgar cayce, atlantis, etc....

reading pajamabiker's post about that song really stirred up some good memories for me. thanks!

learn more about klaatu at www.klaatu.org.

peace,
doug

mundale

11-28-2007, 07:00 AM

i had a klaatu vinyl album in the mid 70s. as i recall it was rumored that this band was a reunion of the beatles.

sometimes rock, blues and country lyrics are part of a single thread found in poetry that goes back to those who wrote the ancient myths. it comes from a vision that seems to be, on one hand, a particular vision amongst other particular visions. on the other hand, it would seem to be the opposite of the particular. it's sort of a practical joke of the general at the expense of the particular.

MarkM

12-06-2007, 06:14 PM

you, like me, may be a led zeppelin fan.

one could feel the palpable sense of grief within humanity when jb died; not quite being old enough to remember where i was when jfk died, i remember that day in 1980.

zep re-unites this month for a show in london, and the reason i am making this post is that i am psychically keyed into the awareness of this within the energy body of humanity, increasingly as the month unfolds.

2007! can the zeppelin lumber aloft once again? for decades, i had my doubts.

but check out this link from 1998. toronto, no less..i think i was there..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cujb122trxs&feature=related

ThinkingWolf

12-07-2007, 04:46 AM

MarkM

12-18-2007, 03:52 PM

just had to share this link!

having played this stuff for many years, i percieve a musical sensibility and technical prowess that belies young quinn's tender years; really an amazing phenom.

in tune with the concept of reincarnation, i can't help but note that this kid is the spitting image of...well, i'll leave that to your own interpretation!

enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhoo3jhnn3q

walle

12-18-2007, 08:12 PM

rock n roll, rap, and most modern music comes from and is for the ego. you are affected by all sources of nourishment and if you choose to nourish your egos and lower self then you will only promote devolution. the great composers such as beethoven, mozart, bach, etc. transposed music from the higher spheres. modern music is a devolving form of expression. it is not for the intimate and infinite being. i know it is hard my friends but it would be wise to transition to a classical menu for the soul. it is difficult for one to attempt to outgrow ones lower nature if you continue to tempt it. slowly transitioning to nourishment from higher sources will only help you self realize and feed your being.

charles obscure

01-15-2008, 07:28 PM

'the rover'
lyrics by robert plant

i've been to london, seen seven wonders. i know to trip is just to fall
i used to rock it, sometimes i'd roll it. i always knew what it was for.

there can be no denyin' that the wind 'll shake 'em down
and the flat world's flyin'. there's a new plague on the land

if we could just join hands

traversed the planet when heaven sent me. i saw the kings who rule them all
still by the firelight and purple moonlight. i hear the rested rivers call
and the wind is crying, from a love that won't grow cold
my lover, she is lying, on the dark side of the globe

if we could just join hands

you got me rockin' when i ought to be a-rollin'
darlin', tell me, darlin', which way to go
you keep me rockin', baby, then you keep me stolen
won't you tell me, darlin', which way to go... that's right

oh how i wonder, oh how i worry and i would dearly like to know
if all this wonder of earthly plunder will it leave us anything to show?

and our time is flyin' see the candle burnin' low
is the new world rising, from the shambles of the old?

if we could just join hands.

pajamabiker

01-20-2008, 09:27 AM

heard a song o the radio yesterday, didn't catch the title or artist, but the chorus caught my ear.
it was was "power to the peacefull"

AmelieJolie

01-20-2008, 01:55 PM

imo, rock/ metal music in itself is not evil, it is simply energetic.

any song, whether rock or not, may have a vibration which uplifts or moves in other ways.

some music brings us closer to home; uplifts; and some music may make us feel melancholic.

rock music in itself is not "bad"
it all depends on the individual song.

i know that classical music is good for plants; helps them to grow, whereas rock music has a negative effect on their growth.

however, we are slightly different to plants. ;)

so i say it depends on the song itself, not the style of music.

i like eclectic music.

vithar

01-21-2008, 08:17 AM

hi. sorry but i did'nt read the majority of posts on this. anyway, i've been a completely faithful metal head all my life - with the exception of deep space meditation music. i'm 46 now and still have (the elite) metal cd's.

i'm more refined now and very selective. that is, underground metal. that's the real stuff (with the exception of ledz, those other bands are commercial watered down boredom, imo). for me it's tremolo-ed, atmospheric, mystical, vampiric, "satanic", pure screeching black metal.

now, i could'nt care less about the lyrics. and truly, even the best ears simply cannot understand the vox as it's produced. further, most of these bands are outside the us. they sing in their native tongues.

but as the original poster said, it's the melodies!

most of this stuff is....theatrical. the progressions are more geometric. and, it acknowledges the dark side.

i've done some of my best astral wondering listening to completely obscure bands from france, spain, norway etc. totally unknown (sometimes one man) bands that...are 3 times better than the bland crap that's pushed in our faces. you know them. and the stuff on the radio? that's as bad as it gets.
{ahem, i'm not talking about talent here. but this corporate "dumbing down" of real music.}

etc.

now, i'm familiar with sound therapy as well as the archetypes. and that everyone is different.

now why don't folks rant on scary movies or novels? well, born agains do.

i did hear years ago that the rock beat itself was tavistok related. you know, psi-op central. much of the stuff pushed in our faces was cooked up by the likes of these types. this is partly or mainly why the beatles (etc) got so famous. this is a sad fact. and rap (puke) is a part of it. black metal might be to. don't know but am being honest.

i think the main problem here is - like with anything - it can be addicting.

and the um, combined mystical-ness and paranoia in me sometimes thinks that metal based melodies (geometries) might resonate with archetypes or frequencies in which you'd do better without.
but junk food ins'nt good either. so it's balance, again.

also, it's probably safer to not blow your mind on drugs with this stuff.

we all know about the studies done with plants and water etc. how different genres of music create different effects.
well this should say it all. indeed. nevertheless, imo, this is where underground music comes in. or simply, well written metal. so even here, you can't paint everything with one big brush.

i personally think metal is a cultural thing. in a good sense i mean! i could'nt help note early on that black metal is mainly produced & popular in specific regions around the globe.

i have a black gibson sg btw.

JayBird

01-21-2008, 09:51 AM

the question is: what changes does this cause in life forms.

i have done this study myself but instead of quoting a lot of boring statistics, i will pose a couple questions.

is the music discordant or not in harmony with nature? dose the music put you at peace, or does it make you strung tight like a guitar sting ready to release built up energy? the second is in preference for most people but they do not realize that anyone wanting to "pluck their string" "pull their chain" "instigate" merely has to invite something into the interaction that is in harmony with it. ie watch children after a kung fu movie and see how many start jumping around after the first one does. you may say "but i am an adult and not so easily influenced," this is true, but when someone finally is successful at plucking your string, you will dance with the rest. do you like being at one with the universe or do you want to be a puppet? do some research on human programming & music, and plants and animals involving music. there are tons of studies available online if you look.

are the lyrics uplifting and focusing on the positive or are they hateful or depressing or talking of things people do not wish to be in their lives? (remember we become and call to us the things we talk about and think about) you may say as many times as you wish that you don't pay attention to the lyrics, but the truth is, your mind hears it and creates a program to activate in your life based on it. music is programming. we become sympathetic to the frequencies around us. how do you want to be programmed?

the questions above was an open post intended to provoke thought and personal action and not a call to debate or conspiracy talk of subliminal music programming (although i have personally seen the equipment for such a technology). as for myself, i do not listen to commercial music but that is my own preference. the implications are obvious, the questions are for each one to answer to your own calling.

SuperManny

01-21-2008, 05:30 PM

heard a song o the radio yesterday, didn't catch the title or artist, but the chorus caught my ear.
it was was "power to the peacefull"
power to the peaceful by anti-flag

sons and daughters of a dream
the urge to struggle for an ideal
to stay and fight
oppose war fever
refuse to kill or be killed
there's voice's calling in the wind

power to the peaceful
power to the peaceful, woah

lets go!

oh yeah!

alright
with a readiness for war
they come down hard on dissent of all forms
blood and militarism has swept the country by storm
there's voice's calling in the wind

power to the peaceful
power to the peaceful, woah
power to the peaceful
power to the peaceful, woah

this is not a war of the urging people
this is not a war of economic independence
it's a war for conquest
it's a war for military power
it's a war for money
the road to universal slaughter

oh no!

sons and daughters of a dream
the urge to struggle for an ideal
to stay and fight
oppose war fever
refuse to kill or be killed
there's voice's calling in the wind

shhh!
power to the peaceful
you know it's power to the peaceful

alright, check this out!
there's repression and intolerance on any deviation from the norm
in all factions of your life at this time of entry into war
say hey-hey... do you know what to sing
say hey-hey... yeah, you know what to sing
say hey-hey... do you know what to sing
say hey-hey-hey-hey

power to the peaceful
power to the peaceful, woah
power to the peaceful
power to the peaceful, woah
alright! woah
woah
woah
woah
yeh!

Kris

01-21-2008, 08:30 PM

[quote=jaybird;26632]
are the lyrics uplifting and focusing on the positive or are they hateful or depressing or talking of things people do not wish to be in their lives? (remember we become and call to us the things we talk about and think about) you may say as many times as you wish that you don't pay attention to the lyrics, but the truth is, your mind hears it and creates a program to activate in your life based on it. music is programming. we become sympathetic to the frequencies around us. how do you want to be programmed?quote]

jaybird, you make some very good points. however, i think that perhaps positive sto people are likely to seek out and enjoy music that is of a positive nature or frequency.

looking at some of the lyrics that have been written out on this thread, it is easy to see that many "rock and roll" songs do have a positive message. perhaps these artists are here to deliver that positive message subliminally to those who have not yet awakened and, for those of us who have, for our enjoyment.

i know that when i hear a song that i like, i definitely learn and remember the lyrics and i sing along, it makes me happy. i think positive people listen to and enjoy music with a positive message, whether it is rock and roll or pop or whatever.

i agree there is a lot of music out there that contains much negativity, but, imo, that is not likely to resonate with anyone on a positive path.

it is unfortunate though, and i do agree with you wholeheartedly, that these negative messages of hate and war and anger are influencing many of today's youth and the sts adults that enjoy listening to the negative words of some artists and it may well "program" them to continue on their negative path.

i suppose if you always had the radio on and let others program what you hear, you may have a point. personally, i have recently started to enjoy silence, but i digress, i do still love a whole lot of rock and roll.

MarkM

01-21-2008, 08:50 PM

are the lyrics uplifting and focusing on the positive or are they hateful or depressing or talking of things people do not wish to be in their lives? (remember we become and call to us the things we talk about and think about) you may say as many times as you wish that you don't pay attention to the lyrics, but the truth is, your mind hears it and creates a program to activate in your life based on it. music is programming. we become sympathetic to the frequencies around us. how do you want to be programmed?

i agree with what you say here, this is a known mechanism, and music is used in this way as a self imposed (or otherwise) means of attenuating the conscious mind and focus on the present moment. i've witnessed the effects of rave music in the mosh pit.

true also that lyrics are channeled to the subconscious mind and can impinge upon the conscious mind in reactive ways.

i would also suggest that the reciprocal can apply here, in that music of any tone can resonate with the conscious mind, relate directly to the conscious mind and catalyse a greater mental/emotional/spiritual boost to an individual.

people, at whatever point they are in their journey of becoming, have a native system of personal vibrations unique to themselves and are a function in a way of their individual paths of becoming, what they have experienced and internalized and how they express themselves; in short, who they are.

i would suggest that as all have a creator-sanctioned right to their chosen path and their own vibratory system, i think it important to consider that as music represents and embodies all of creation, as do all people, that all people will naturally and rightfully gravitate towards or create music that is renonant to them, and expresses what they feel and know is inside them, in a way that can potentially be of benefit.

in this way, i think that i could no more judge a style or particular piece of music in an intrinsic way, than i could judge an individual person, regardless of the percieved level of violence, negativity or 'depravity' that i percieve in the person or the music.

while we work towards the drawing forth of people (and everything else) towards a less distorted relationship with the creator, we nevertheless unconditionally accept all people and conditions, as they are, as being totally in line with the will of the creator and perfect in their becoming.

yes, perhaps be aware of the negative potential effects of some circumstances of the dance, and that advice can be sound.

in other circumstances, the same music for the resonating soul can be a thing of personally resounding beauty. as music can be programming it can also be programmed for authentic healthy self expression, and express aspects of one's state of evolution.

all records have a flip side.

MarkM

01-23-2008, 09:34 PM

as we feel so strongly about this issue, here's a link that helps to illustrate what we was trying to express earlier on this thread.

we must warn, though, that this group has been deemed inappropriate for younger viewers, here in canada. (god help us all...;))

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7p59yboz_o

-markris

MarkM

01-25-2008, 04:54 PM

you are about to come face to face with something of transcendant beauty; i cannot experience this without literally sobbing.

what beautiful creatures are we! are life.

an expression of the pull homeward.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qovwokqnv4m

MarkM

01-25-2008, 05:25 PM

here's another version of the same piece by bach, as it was originally intended by him to be orchestrated.

i am aware right now of the daunting hurdles overcome by bach to be able to present this music to the world, in it's pure beauty of actualization, as great light is always challenged and balanced by the opposite polarity.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3yicopragvs

right now i am so overcome with beauty, i can hardly breathe.

i want to go home.

MarkM

01-25-2008, 05:57 PM

sorry, i have to digress. what would ol' j.s. have thunk about this?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=x1mv_5-brpo

for me, just as powerfully moving of a celebration of love. i won't be without this kind of thing!

feel free to be scandalized..i can take it.

MarkM

01-25-2008, 06:24 PM

i just can't help it..here's more love, from my friend, old neil young

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vef03k5i8vi

MarkM

01-25-2008, 06:58 PM

given the socio/political climate in britain in the 1700's, and the attempt by the english to wipe out the culture of the scots, it's good that much of the scottish diaspora wound up here in canada, in a place where the impetus of the centuries continued in an unbroken stream, unlike in the old country - where the wearing of the tartan, the speaking of gaelic and the fiddle and bodhran were banned upon pain of death, grievously impacting there, much ancient culture carried forth from time immemorial...here in canada, my fiddle teacher returns each year to scotland to re-aquaint the scots with the techniques forgotten there.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=e7q8v1f1zsq

here's my people; just a small taste to either turn you off or whet your appetite..my fiddle teacher is an uncle of young ashley, presented here with love.

MarkM

01-25-2008, 07:53 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjsrv3hxsfe

full circle.

reminds me of the beatles, in their more sublime moments.

MarkM

02-11-2008, 05:08 PM

this video is herbert von karayan conducting a famous rendition of beethoven's ninth symphony.

i am struck by the focus of concert; the experience of oneness displayed as a prime example of what people can achieve in a full circle transit from the herd mentality, through individual self expression and into a single concert of souls.

each of these beautiful men has spent a lifetime in careful study of their craft; perhaps a thousand years of combined focus was necessary to bring you this performance. i know what it is to attempt to learn the fiddle!:d

and the depth and richness of the tapestry i would recommend to amy winehouse.

although this is not new, in our terms of thinking, i feel it still hints as to the greater potential of us, as we verge upon our metamorphosis, as the butterfly shows us the miracle of evolution:

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=4278424495060822070&q=type%3amusic_video+or+genre%3amusic&total=20401318&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3

some of you may have never given this kind of thing a chance, given the pervasive influence of late twentieth and early twenty-first century pop culture.

now, i love pop/rock. yet, so many never venture out of this paradigm, it is an interesting phenomenon in that music of the world has bequeathed us such a rich heritage, and yet so many young people are locked into such narrow straits...perhaps for reasons pertaining to modern cultural influence/requisites and the mating ritual which occupies us so.

well, yes, red ray is here, as a basis, but beginning in harmonic cadence with the higher energy centers..depends upon your druthers.

so i would recommend this concerted effort to those whom would venture to use music to explore life with sexuality perhaps a bit more put into it's rightful place in terms of love.

crank your speakers for the second movement. so many men, and women, in single minded concert!

it is as beautiful to watch as it is to listen.

and to mr. beethoven, you were deaf only in the most outer of circumstances, when you made this.

so, mr. mozart, watch, and put your chin on your sub-woofer, and i'll fedex you a big conch shell. no offence intended.;)

Greywolf69

02-26-2008, 06:12 PM

just as anything, i wouldnt say that music is evil ... it is all how its used ... what energies are placed behind the making of the music. some artists know that the mass public is easily infuensed by music, but they do not care as long as they are making their money (or maybe they do care, and want to see the "evils" that go on). i cant really say. like symbols, i think it is all in how music or energy is used ... for "good" or "evil".

MarkM

03-14-2008, 06:02 PM

our very own toronto boy, jeff, passed last week of the cancer that he battled all his life. a fabulous guitar talent, he'll be missed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnnnmn6qpi0&feature=related

transiten

03-14-2008, 08:41 PM

hi

for four days i'm all sound, mars conjuncting my radix uranus. being a singer/songwriter i jump high every time somebody doesn't care about the lyrics:( and think that the message doesn't matter.......

good old crosby stills nash and young, melodic rock, beautiful, meanigful, spiritual lyrics,

police: synchronicity:) and sting going solo, always critisized because it's so fxxxxxg good, too perfect?

i like worldmusic, folkmusic, classic, blues, rock, even rap sometimes, if the message is ok.

tomorrow i'm going to write a song all day long....

liliane venus square neptune=music made in heaven

MarkM

10-16-2008, 03:45 PM

a little canadian talent:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=8ts4owiozmw

mark

MarkM

10-16-2008, 04:06 PM

solomon burke and the blind boys of alabama:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=kfzvetasasq

mark

btsumm

10-16-2008, 05:39 PM

the beauty of music is it's inspiration...you add the emotion and that determines the affect of the output.

cheers!
brian

shclandler

10-17-2008, 02:57 PM

i was wondering what some of your opinions are on how the music of the grateful dead ties into everything discussed on this website.

i just listened to the song "terrapin station" today for the first time in a while and some of the lyrics really seemed to speak about 2012. i was a deadhead for a number of years and i always had the opinion that they were much more than just another rock band and that their music carried true meaning. thanks for any input on this topic!

MarkM

10-17-2008, 05:15 PM

chocolate jesus, tom waits

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=1qklfwjxcwi

mark

Mystery

10-18-2008, 04:53 AM

as dgcrow mentioned earlier in this thread, the absolute key to any level of musical performance is achieving the selfless zen-like state. a great musical performance is communicating directly from the higher self, which is exactly what all this spiritual "love and light"business is all about!

how could this possibly be wrong?

i've dabbled a bit as a rock singer myself, and there are times when i've listened to a recording of myself thinking "damn, that guy's a freakin' god! i'd give my left arm to be able to sing like that!"

narcissism extreme?

no, just a recognization that compared to my own higher self, i can't sing worth a damn. neither can anyone else.

so, music is all about the higher self. and some higher selves do in fact choose the rock vibrations to express themselves.

my youngest son plays classical piano. like a freakin' god, i might add. his higher self is pure ethereal blissful harmony.

mine isn't!

my higher self is instead a supercharged bolt of pure virile love energy. if that makes me "evil", then so be it. if the place i go to when i die is "hell" to you, so what? i call it home, and i like it there! the eternal fire may be hot, but i wouldn't want it any other way!

my wife is a music teacher. she makes an effort to introduce all kinds of good music to the school children. this will include "spiritually uplifting" stuff, but also quality rock, among other things. she recently played queen's "another one bites the dust" for the little ones.

the kids went absolutely wild! and why shouldn't they? noone with even a single drop of testosterone pumping in their system could possibly stay unaffected by that track! it is pure unadulterated virile energy!

it is yang.

on the other hand, the nice "spiritually safe" and harmonious music noone ever has to feel ashamed about enjoying, is yin.

we currently have a society that worships all forms of female energy expression, and suppresses all forms of male energy expression, just in case you haven't noticed. the way boys are always seen as nothing but "problems" illustrates this perfectly.

and yet, how could we ever have yin without yang?

sure, the lyrics of the abovementioned queen song are a bit dark. the lyrics are actually sung from the viewpoint of a gunman on a killing spree. naughty stuff that. but the music and the lyrics taken together, as a vibrational package, really "tells" something else. it tells about a deep power within that simply cannot be suppressed. this is spiritual truth, spiritual truth about yang.

so, there are good quality music of all kinds! there are guitar solos with all the harmonic purity of a rusty chainsaw that absolutely send shivers down my spine!

but, and this is a big but, not everything that glitters is gold. and not everything that calls itself "music" is music.

music is life expression. get it?

the vibrations of all music raises the energy of the listener. whether the energy is yin or yang doesn't matter.life is an all-encompassing concept.

but virtually all techno, much rap, and also some metal, are really death worshipping in sound form. such vibrations sap life energy out of the listener, instead of rasing it. thus these "artforms" aren't music at all, they are anti-music.

everyone can tell the difference for themselves, it's not rocket science. but some people wilfully choose death over life. noone can help them. the christian bible is all about this choice, as is many other spiritual traditions.

Lukenukem

10-20-2008, 08:25 AM

this was a very interesting read! thanks

StarGirl

10-20-2008, 04:08 PM

what great discussions people bring up on this forum.

well… i don’t think you can grab one type of music (rock and roll or rap) and just go that whole genre is evil/bad.

as is said elsewhere and everywhere all over this forum, the terms “evil or bad” are just judgments or perceptions.

it really is funny… there is so much music, where the lyrics kinda make me cringe… and it’s not at all in the “hard core” stuff.

i get so tired of listening to, for example, make up/ break up tracks that seem to act like… the only way to end a relationship is with a lot of heartache and pain and/or “see how strong i am, i didn’t need you anyway!!” bravado…. whaaaatever. i think i may find that stuff more insidious then the obvious lyrical suggestions in hard core rap or hard rock. i mean most people can resist, “go kill someone!”, but a subtle , “you know, you have a justifiable right to be angry/ pissed off/ depressed about what so-and-so did to you… yeesss… be disturbed for a good looong time… you’ve earned it. gather that self pity and angry resentment…. pass it on as best you can!!!”

yet see… my own judgment. perhaps folks need to go through a process… and that’s my second point:

what is music… someone’s attempt at expressing. a lot of people are in pain. where do you think hard core rock/rap or whatever comes from? i am not sure, but i feel this is true: my experience seems to suggest… if you cannot connect to the pain and struggle of a person or a group of people- any expression of that pain that they show will be rejected by you, because you don’t want to see it. you don’t really want to know about it. and anyway, it’s hard to watch someone in pain. and no, no one said you have to. you might want to help. but it’s a bit like waving from the shore and saying, “come over here… this way!” and you don’t have to get “lost” (entertain a love of all things lyrically raw). someone has cancer… you don’t have to “get” cancer yourself to have sympathy… empathy. you might even be thinking to yourself, “wow, that’s quite a cancer experience you’re giving yourself.” and you may not feel the need to hang around it. but you can still have love and understanding.

i guess i just feel…if music is evil… then the people who created it are evil. and people aren’t evil… they just sometimes get sick… very, very sick.

which brings me to my last point: play a game of transcendence with various music. hidden in almost every song is at least one divine quality (possible well hidden amongst a lot of muck.) or the song wouldn’t exist. if you can be conscious and find that quality in the song… you just hold that aware while you jam at it. heck, just finding that quality and being aware of its existence and holding it clearer and balanced in your mind will help, i believe, all connected to that song. this is just a game i play.

example: (note not all rap is so intensely negative as some may think… but some most certainly is). hard rap. what is a divine quality in that? in many rap songs i have heard power. you can’t create, function, exist or accomplish w/o power so power is necessary. power is not “good or bad”… however intent can decide sts or sto. a lot of gangsta rap songs have to do with power…. (how much you wanna bet at some point in time in life, somebody felt powerless. experienced great pain because of this belief… etc, etc) its about strength. mind you i would judge it as strength not used in the best way. but…. so be it.

you look for what elements you can. every thing comes from source.. so somewhere back in there is an original idea spark. and praising that might help for the music to stray closer eventually to its real purpose… oh! just like you do with people!

love everybody,

darlyne

Djonne

10-20-2008, 09:30 PM

guys if rock and roll and metal is evil... then tell me this metal ballad is really bad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwc_gjplk8s

great symphony x song.
probably the best ballad i ever heard in my life.

i do not believe a style of music is bad, even if i hate rap. it's mainly the intention in the song that makes music bad. if you say satan or violence in a song doesn't mean you approve that.

anyway, music is really a great thing we can have in nature, vibrations. music is really to me, the nicest gift we can have from nature, after life of course.

voidofsilence

02-17-2009, 07:15 PM

just returned from the cle 09 in la, and i'm pretty exhausted.
i attended the 1st david wilcock event on sunday night and i feel absolutely transformed cause of it. i became familiar with david wilcock from coast to coast am and the recent stuff he has talked about on that show.

i had a chance to spark up a conversation with david about some of my activities in my life etc. researching david's work i came across his younger years of being influenced or involved in some heavy metal music at the time.

well, i have been wondering some things myself about that involvement and due to some of his time restraints which i fully understand, we were not able to fully complete our conversation.
i asked david about his opinion on whether or not heavy metal music and its culture can be negative or positive.

to me i am sorta in the middle on this and am trying to figure some things out. for example, i am a musician who has been playing metal music for about 12 or so years and is a huge fan of this music. being involved in various groups i formed my own band which could be considered black or death metal music. i formed this band of mine when i was about 17 or so, and nowadays i am 26 and much more knowledgeable then i was back then.

in the earlier days i dwelled in things i did not necessarily understand such as satanism, horror, and other say occult stuff, which i thought was cool at the time etc. i look back on it and realize that i did not really know much about anything and was just digging the music as well as just wanting to fit in with my friends who had their bands in the scene which influenced me as well.

me and david started talking about norwegian black metal and black sabbath and he mentioned how black sabbath had talk about being anti government among other things. anyways, some of my answers were not able to be obtained due to time restraints of his which i understand fully and have no problems with.

i am curious on some insights here from some of you folks who may be familiar with metal music and its many subgenres. being here in this forum i have obviously been seeking to connect with the more positive aspects of life and conciousness which exists out there and it very much alive.

to get to my point finally, i feel that this music is not necessarily bad even though it can expose certain people to negative things. i think it does come down to ones perspective. i realize that it cannot be this way for everyone as i too did take some of this stuff serious in some ways previously although i awoke from that. negativity is not what i intend to do with my music from now on (although i think you can toy with some ideas of doom and obscurity) and i do understand that it can be done in a good way. so does anyone think that bringing harmful energies to myself from still enjoying some of the more darker and possibly some satanic music out there, which i don't necessarily share the same views of?

i do like a lot of this music and think that it can be transcended in dualistic terms. that is my feeling anyway. i have already began to rid of some of my musical involvement which i do not agree and feel myself just moving beyond regardless with such as the satanic aspect just not being something i feel good about, although thats not to say i still don't like some of the music.

thus, i have been using my music (nowadays) to channel some of the more positive stuff i am fascinated with such as the awakening/supernatural/paranormal stuff that say david and others talk about out there in the wide world of conciousness.
hopefully this isn't to crazy or confusing to understand.

thanks for your time to listen.

any thoughts on this would be very much appreciated.

voidofsilence

02-18-2009, 02:36 PM

to elaborate a bit more on this subject.

i still do enjoy horror movies and i grew up with them. horror is just something i am fascinated by and i think its great. it is definetly a form of art although slightly extreme in some ways.

getting back on the subject of music.

there is also some forms even within classical music that has the same effect on me such as some black, death, or doom metal. to me one of my favorite pieces of music ever is the moonlight sonata by beethoven. this piece of music is also as dark as it is beautiful.

i can listen to this in the rain and get a very soothing feeling. so the same can be said of some music out there which is really dark that i find myself just attracted to more so than other music although i still appreciate other forms as well. i grew up with classic rock and country music although the latter is not so much my taste.

there is a band called opeth which as far as metal goes is a very good example of what i am trying to say with this post. they somehow came up with a formula where they can write some of the most heavy music around and then go into the most drastic turn and go into some real nice sounding passages. the band's overall approach deals with relationships, the supernatural, the occult, sadness, loss, and various other things.

i feel this is similiar to what i am trying to myself musically and have done more or less the last few years since i had been awakened a few years ago to the infinite. some forms of the black metal music i like and just find it fitting my taste although the intent behind some of it i do not necessarily agree with. this is what i would like to hear some thoughts about.
am i doing myself an injustice or placing upon myself unwanted negative energy say if i listen to music that supports satan or war? again i really just like the music and do not support the intent behind it. i do believe that some of this can be transcended beyond its duality, which someone in this post mentioned towards the beginning of this post.

looking forward to your response.

Blacksunshine

02-18-2009, 04:58 PM

rock and roll cant be evil, because i love it, and i'm so far from evil, that it just wouldn't make any sence.

okay that's a simplistic view. ;)

i just cant see how any music can be evil, but i'm a freedom of expression type, that finds beauty in everything.

i had a co-worker tho, that was working at one of my stores, and lectured her on the "evilness" of rock music. little did he know that she does in fact listen to the rock music. but there are people that do think that it's evil, and that is fine....with that, they dont have to listen to it.

at my store (it's in a different city) i always have my station on the classic rock station. i love the stories of the time, so i sing along all day. it's ironic, because the stores are literally only 20 mins apart from eachother, but at my store, they are always asking "what station is this? i love it, it takes me back to a day a long time ago. and it's so fun to hear these songs, but you shouldn't know them, you are too young." so it's odd, by just being in a different city how different the people can be.

when i "have" to work at the other store (the one that dosn't like rock music) it's a completely different day, it's very lonely, very sad, very cold, and often times very depressing. and it's all because of the different attitudes of the two places.

Djonne

02-18-2009, 06:12 PM

i do love heavy/power/progressive metal as well as rock operas like ayreon.
i don't really read the lyrics and don't listen to them closely, but i listen very carefully to the melodies, chords etc.

some songs give me chills, and some others just don't.
i try to appreciate all the music i can get, but i can't stand to hear *soulless* music like lady gaga pop *note-correction pop ****artist*****

i'm much more attracted to european metal, which is not mainly trash, death and doom. here in canada the popular thing now is *technical death/trash*. i hate hearing noise.

anyway. music is really great. it's so sweet and i don't know why but it is.
let's all sing along, on december 21 2012, wind of change- scorpions:)

Rhonda

02-18-2009, 07:03 PM

hi voidofsilence, i love rock n roll . i believe that music, words, tones and " "all that is" comes from our one source. some can bring out the best in us and others can bring out what we would consider not our best.

as we travel our life journey, our taste, values and interest grow as our heart opens to the various pieces of life we experience. in my younger days, i enjoyed more hard rock, now in my mid years, its more softer stuff, but good memories or life memories come forward at some of the older tones i hear from the earlier days songs i was drawn to. i enjoy hearing them again and recall where i was in my life when i was attracted to them.

to get to my point finally, i feel that this music is not necessarily bad even though it can expose certain people to negative things. i think it does come down to ones perspective. i realize that it cannot be this way for everyone as i too did take some of this stuff serious in some ways previously although i awoke from that.

i do like a lot of this music and think that it can be transcended in dualistic terms. that is my feeling anyway. i have already began to rid of some of my musical involvement which i do not agree and feel myself just moving beyond regardless with such as the satanic aspect just not being something i feel good about, although thats not to say i still don't like some of the music.

i do recognize that their are those songs that i question that our creator choose to create, but that is not my place to question, judge, but rather realize that the creation given is for someone and that all has its purpose.

if a song brings out fear, perhaps that song will help heal that fear that is present at that time. turning fear, evil into joy and light.

thanks for bring this subject forward....

voidofsilence

02-18-2009, 07:48 PM

the scorpions is becoming one of my favorites. i used to love them a lot back when i was younger, but then i kinda forgot about them and was listening to all sorts of other stuff. the winds of change is a real good song. i have been rediscovering their music within the last year or so and its great. one of my favorites too is the song holiday. pink floyd are also pretty damn good.

Blacksunshine

02-19-2009, 09:10 AM

i've always been a scorpions fan too, i thought maybe i was the only one..so yay i'm not alone.

i had the most amazing weekend last weekend, it was so simple.

saturday i woke up to a 3 hour concert (on vh1 classic) that was led zepplin live in 74, i belive.

then i spent some time alone, then some time with my husband when he got home from work, then a friend we hadn't seen for ages, then a birthday party of a near dear friend.

then on sunday i went to bed moments after watching pink floyds final tour in 94, dark side of the moon, live.

i am truly unsure of how you ask for a better winter weekend, then that. just to share. this weekend was the beginning of an upward swing for me...i can just tell it. yet, here i sit, listening to my rock music. things are certainly what we make of them.

and this weekend, moab.

i have had a kind of rough start to this year, but music help me immensly to get thru, a soul that is capable of telling a story as many musicians do, sharing their ability to syncronize amazing sounds with their thought construcion to tell a story. it is a (imo) talent that must be respected. and many many rock stars out there are absoltely amazing story tellers.

Webzz

02-20-2009, 05:23 AM

i always liked the anti-establishment messages sung by the british groups of the 70's

"god save the queen - her facist regime. they made you a moron - potential h-bomb"

i think johnny rotten and company spit right in the middle of that little illuminati eye on top of the pyramid on that song. plus the song was banned in england. brilliant!

paul weller and the jam in "time for truth" sings "what ever happened to the great empire. you b******s have turned it into manure"

these and many other songs by the clash etc.. were all a way for the repressed youth to sing out, shout out all their anger and frustration against the very forces we now see crumbling before our eyes. i think it was an early version of a type of 'forum' that you're reading now, only they got "away" with it then because someone stood to profit from the record sales ironic as that may be.

"so get off your @$$ and come down here
'cause rock 'n' roll ain't no riddle man
to me it makes good, good sense" -acdc

Shovelcut

03-04-2009, 11:51 AM

just had to share this link!

in tune with the concept of reincarnation, i can't help but note that this kid is the spitting image of...well, i'll leave that to your own interpretation!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhoo3jhnn3q

uh...his dad? lol

but yeah, thanks to everyone. this has been a very enjoyable thread for me. i too have been a life long headbanger. (just open my profile hehe)

if you start looking at all the other genre's out there, the talent pool just isn't as rich as the rock genre. i can really appreciate someone who has spent their life evolving their craft. it's that kind of determination that more people need!

headbangers get a bad rap because of closed minded people and thats the bottom line.

i'd like to offer up a video by tool, which i feel has a very positive message. (note: you may want to click on the "watch in high quality" link to be able to see all the imagery in the video) the end gives me chills every time i watch it, i'm not sure but i do believe alex grey had something to do with this video. if not, then he definetly played the role of inspiration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_blvvsgov4

this body. this body holding me. be my reminder here that i am not alone in
this body, this body holding me, feeling eternal all this pain is an illusion...

enjoy!

-edit- sorry, the video was already posted in the music for the savage beast thread. guess it fits in here too if anyone missed it there like i did :)

voidofsilence

03-05-2009, 10:36 AM

uh...his dad? lol

but yeah, thanks to everyone. this has been a very enjoyable thread for me. i too have been a life long headbanger. (just open my profile hehe)

if you start looking at all the other genre's out there, the talent pool just isn't as rich as the rock genre. i can really appreciate someone who has spent their life evolving their craft. it's that kind of determination that more people need!

headbangers get a bad rap because of closed minded people and thats the bottom line.

i'd like to offer up a video by tool, which i feel has a very positive message. (note: you may want to click on the "watch in high quality" link to be able to see all the imagery in the video) the end gives me chills every time i watch it, i'm not sure but i do believe alex grey had something to do with this video. if not, then he definetly played the role of inspiration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_blvvsgov4

this body. this body holding me. be my reminder here that i am not alone in
this body, this body holding me, feeling eternal all this pain is an illusion...

enjoy!

-edit- sorry, the video was already posted in the music for the savage beast thread. guess it fits in here too if anyone missed it there like i did :)

i am glad i am not the only headbanger here. it seems a bit odd, but to me personally i am glad i am able to find this information about david's work which just makes sense to me in a lot of ways.

it was really interesting and a bit of relief to see headbangers (aka some folks with black metal band t shirts similiar to myself) at the 2/15/09 david wilcock cle conference in la. i find it strange because the nature of this music (some black and death metal) can be pretty negative for obvious reasons such as anti religion, war, satanism, occult etc. and to see some people venturing out from that culture to explore other means of enlightening knowledge is a bit unexpected. maybe not that strange, its just the world flowing like it does.

to me it is great to see this open mindedness with metalheads/headbangers happening. negativity and satanism as well as doom and gloom is not necessarily related to all of the metal scene and the many different subgenres which i do actually have a lot of respect for. metal in general is a great genre and has a lot of great bands doing great things so that is a positive aspect i definetly enjoy.

the thing with black metal, death metal, doom metal and the like is that as i evolve spiritually (which seems to be out of my control) many aspects of this stuff just clashes with me. although this is the case, i still like some of the music and respect some elements of it which are thought provoking and very interesting. perhaps it is something that should explored more musically and philosophically. dark in nature as a lot of this music is, i believe that you can transcend the duality of it and you can make it something positive too or anything you want it to be for that matter.

wintersun

03-05-2009, 05:13 PM

ok, here's my little objective input on metal, and then rock...

dispite the fact that i listen to metal music, i seriously think that heavy metal, in its primary intention, was meant as another of those society engeneering projects, and primarily as the opposition to the catholic church, which also fits into this social engineering stuff, only that it's on the oposit side.

so, this way "the powers that be" made two powerful catalysts, to create two opposing sides, which is all they want in the end. they wan't us to hate each other. i mean, isn't it a strange coincidence that heavy metal first become in england?

however, i will say this as well! things have changed a bit. many wanderers became metal artists, and started turning this music in a postitive direction. there aren't many bands of such qualities, but they do exist. and you can find many positive metaphysical stuff there, even songs about the law of one, and cayce's readings on atlantis.

so all in all, yes, i'll say this as a metal fan - most metal does promote anger and hatered, as well as concentrating on lower chakras, and ego. find me any black, death or thrash metal band that speaks of love and unity :d

however, many progressive, power, and other kinds of metal are pretty darn positive, and enlightening.

as for rock music, it's got its flaws aswell... maybe even more than metal!

mostley those girly-oriented bands. besides of constant use of same old chord progressions, and words like "baby", "hot mama", "sweet sugar" etc, they also seem to constantly focus on lower chakras (materialism, possession, possessiveness towards others...).

and, i've never heard any rock band talk about anything higher (in chakra order) then loving another person (baby and hot mama stuff again hehe). and for the most part, it's not even honest love, or at least posessive love (2nd chakra). how many main stream rock players were ever loyal to their wives? even if they had them.

and then we have this rock'n'roll life style, that further screws up the situation. no need for further explaining, haha.

so there you have it. this society sucks, i know. but still - its just perfect as it is. :d

i could write about this all night long, but i think i made my point a long time ago hehehe

take care!

dino

starborne

03-05-2009, 06:26 PM

i am so happy to see other metalheads, headbangers on here and sharing their insights. i've been wondering how to broach the subject on here to find out what others are getting out of the same music after their awakening. i know there are a few bands out there that played an integral part in me finding my way to sites and information such as divine cosmos.

morbid angel would have to be the best example i could think of that had the most direct impact on my spiritual development. emperor, or really ihsahn is the other great source of spiritual truth in heavy metal. i didn't pay much attention to the lyrical content back in the days when i was introduced to black metal, but now that i have grown in the past 10 years i can see just how enlightened those guys were when the mid 90's came around. death would be another great example of people who wrote about truth and life as they saw it, rather than the dark idol worship that so many others continued in even after others around them eventually evolved toward the light of oneness. chuck schuldiner (rip) is one guy i would have loved to meet and talk with about phillosophy/spirituality from the loo, and david et al.

i'm also glad that someone mentioned opeth. they played a big part in me turning my attitude musically (in my own writing that is) to more of a balance of the light and dark, making my dark even more disturbing; and the lighter more uplifting. all of these bands, and so very many more, showed me so much truth in just the music alone. the lyrical content of the black metal bands made me more of a proud, questioning soul. even though some of the lyrics can be on the dark side, (especially the early stuff) i found it (and still do) quite energeticly uplifting anytime i hear it.

now for the deep space/ meditational metal (yes i too love it!!), morbid angel again, but there is a duo from england called mithras that does a fantastic job at capturing what i've always wanted to hear. i've been almost fanatically obsessed with space (yeah definate trekkie here), and loved to just sit and ponder for hours on end about what is truely out there (i still do from time to time). the riffing that guy uses is quite unusual, but still somewhat similar to trey of ma which is what drew me to them in the first place, but it really does take you out on a trip across the universe. it does make you think of what's out there, but also for me anyways it makes me think of what was out there a few million years ago, the folks that inspired the legends of old down here on earth.

of course my interests do not simply stop at metal, that is just the tip of the iceberg for me. :d in keeping with the original question of the thread, i don't believe that rock n' roll music is evil. badly distorted from the sto path maybe, but certainly not evil. now in heavy metal, there are a few bands out there that are certainly evil in intention (i don't want this to be a name-dropping post so i won't post any more names), but again it's up to your interpretation... how it resonates with you.

p.s. there are a few of you on here that i'd love to chat with about certain bands. pm me if you you'd like!

much love and light (and two evil eyes!),
jon

Ultramind

03-05-2009, 06:45 PM

i do like heavy music myself but like voidofsilence said, it is starting to clash with my spiritual journey. i find that a lot of the good stuff has some really bad messages of hatred in it and i have a hard time trying to enjoy it. when it comes to music like this it isn't the lyrics that is satisfying to me, it's the tune. the heavy guitar and drumming is what i am attracted to. so with that being said, i try to ignore the lyrics.

i did read somewhere within my studies though that scientifically speaking, the tones of this type of music has a negative effect on the human body. if i can recall right, it has something to do with the stem of the brain and how when exposed to certain frequencies it has a negative impact on our breathing. i'm not sure if this was david wilcock that talked about this or if i found it on youtube somewhere. it may have been the coast 2 coast show i heard on youtube labeled "water, is it conscious". with that being said i have noticed that after listening to heavy music i feel energized and ready to take on anything anyone throws my way, but on the same token i feel very aggressive and sometimes violent. i usually counter this effect by listening to some peaceful tones and music. i like listening to some classical music sometimes when i am feeling violent, it tends to have a balancing effect on me.

Ultramind

03-05-2009, 09:04 PM

and, i've never heard any rock band talk about anything higher (in chakra order) then loving another person (baby and hot mama stuff again hehe). and for the most part, it's not even honest love, or at least posessive love (2nd chakra).

i agree with you there winter, good wholesome rock bands are few and far between. i do really enjoy the band creed though. i've gotta say that their second album human clay is truly uplifting. i really enjoy every song on this album and find that the lyric's have really deep meanings. faceless man is one example of a song that i can connect with on a higher level. i get goosebumps every time i hear the words. the lyrics just seem to flow with the music. i find this to be very powerful music and it makes me feel really good inside and about the world around me. like everything is okay.

if memory serves me correct, i believe that creed used to be a christian rock band.

i don't know if i can think of any other bands that compare to creed in terms of conveying a positive and spiritual message.

love and light to all.

Shovelcut

03-05-2009, 11:47 PM

i mean, isn't it a strange coincidence that heavy metal first become in england?
nah, look at all the legendary musicians that either came from or started their career there from every genre. they just have a more diverse musical taste then most the rest of the world. when you have a huge population of musicians a little healthy competition will generate tons of "new sounds". i just see it as an evolution of music through technology and innovation.

just like the age of cheap computers ushered in the techno and rap era. computers can easily be turned into beat machines or recording studios and boom! people will find all kinds of different things to do with whats at hand. ;)

and, i've never heard any rock band talk about anything higher (in chakra order) then loving another person (baby and hot mama stuff again hehe). and for the most part, it's not even honest love, or at least posessive love (2nd chakra). how many main stream rock players were ever loyal to their wives? even if they had them.
as a being of a musical nature, i could care less about what is said in a song or what message the singer is trying to get across, its all about the music. the instruments have a language all their own and they sometimes speak a different story then what the singer is babbling about. i guess it's all about what "you" take away from it. for me, the music makes a bigger impact then the lyrics or the way they or sung for that matter. i'll hear a song 5 or 6 times before i even realize someone is singing. :d

my only problem with rock/metal is it seems nobody can write an album with decent songs over 5 minutes anymore. it gets old buying cd's that have 18 songs and it's only 35-40 mins long. :rolleyes: i don't listen to much else so i don't know about any of the other genres.

my 2 cents for what it's worth

http://smilies.vidahost.com/otn/glasses/ylsuper.gif

ETguy

03-06-2009, 01:21 AM

voidofsilence

03-06-2009, 08:22 AM

i am so happy to see other metalheads, headbangers on here and sharing their insights. i've been wondering how to broach the subject on here to find out what others are getting out of the same music after their awakening. i know there are a few bands out there that played an integral part in me finding my way to sites and information such as divine cosmos.

morbid angel would have to be the best example i could think of that had the most direct impact on my spiritual development. emperor, or really ihsahn is the other great source of spiritual truth in heavy metal. i didn't pay much attention to the lyrical content back in the days when i was introduced to black metal, but now that i have grown in the past 10 years i can see just how enlightened those guys were when the mid 90's came around. death would be another great example of people who wrote about truth and life as they saw it, rather than the dark idol worship that so many others continued in even after others around them eventually evolved toward the light of oneness. chuck schuldiner (rip) is one guy i would have loved to meet and talk with about phillosophy/spirituality from the loo, and david et al.

i'm also glad that someone mentioned opeth. they played a big part in me turning my attitude musically (in my own writing that is) to more of a balance of the light and dark, making my dark even more disturbing; and the lighter more uplifting. all of these bands, and so very many more, showed me so much truth in just the music alone. the lyrical content of the black metal bands made me more of a proud, questioning soul. even though some of the lyrics can be on the dark side, (especially the early stuff) i found it (and still do) quite energeticly uplifting anytime i hear it.

much love and light (and two evil eyes!),
jon

ah, so we have some people mentioning morbid angel, opeth, and mythras. that was really unexpected.....all three of those bands really great.

morbid angel has definetly been going into the infinite energy and the continuums etc. you can tell that trey has some spiritual stuff going on.
opeth really has some great music and good vibes going on. with some dark music it doesn't necessarily have to make you feel negative as the normality that darkness is associated with etc. for example, everytime i go to the cemetary i feel very comfortable and peaceful. it has a soothing vibe to it. anyone else share this same feeling? not encouraging you to go to the cemetary, but i find it a soothing place and nice and quiet. this to me is how music can be transcended as you know if you rid the duality of it, dark music with a doomy vibe or a bit of sadness can actually be quite beautiful.

there are some bands that i know who have spread the message in metal of the more esoteric subjects etc. there are also bands who are trying to spread awareness of the people with ill-intentions etc. there is a band called unearthly trance who has concepts dealing with montauk and nikola tesla.

as far as the greatest band in the world who has done a lot of good i would have to say that would be the almighty iron maiden. this is like my favorite band. sheesh if there was a religion called iron maiden, i would probably be a part of it. this band has been so responsible for the many uplifting moments in my life when i needed it.....back in my confused and sorrowful days. i have never gotten a negative vibe from iron maiden at all. i seen em live twice and they are just amazing. not too mention quite knowledgeable with some things esoteric which i think is pretty good.
they definetly have some stuff out there which is also thought provoking, but i feel overall they strive towards good intentions. their music has united a lot of people and done a lot of good. bruce dickinson the singer of iron maiden (who is also a professional airline pilot) actually helped fly some innocent civilians out of the war zones of israel and lebanon during the 2006 israel/hamas conflict. he did quite a few back and forth flights from lebanon to the island of cypress across the mediteranean sea to helping people out. now that is quite amazing.

Ultramind

03-06-2009, 10:06 AM

metallica does have their very evil sounding song called orion. i wonder if they chose the name orion by coincidence? according to ra, the star-systems in the constellation orion is a large source of service to self oriented beings. i wonder if the sts beings from orion like metallica? :d

metallica - orion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7kfd4lsy4o)
ra material on orion (http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?category=orion)
etguy, do you find that metallica's new album has a lot of reference to end times/2012. or if not reference, that it somehow put's the idea of end times in the listeners head. almost like metallica has some other agenda in mind when they put together this album. it seems very suggestive. this may sound strange to you but this was my first impression when i listened to this album, before i had a chance to analyze the thoughts that came to mind. my first thoughts where "this sounds like armageddon tunes, this is what people in the military will be listening to when they are driving their tanks and flying their jets bombing everything in sight." keep in mind that this was just an impression because i do not actually believe that there is actually going to be catastrophic war. i believe that we are going to reach a golden age beyond our wildest dreams. i believe that true unconditional love and peace for mankind is on the horizon.

i know this sounds kinda strange but to me it seems that this music was designed with a purpose. don't get me wrong, i do really like the music for what it is worth instrumentally but i could live without the lyrics. i really just like the heavy guitar and beat. its powerful and full of energy that i can draw off of and use to get motivated for things like work and physically demanding tasks.

what's your thoughts?

lebowski san

03-07-2009, 04:26 AM

i really want to hear some alien metal. i love metal. but, as i get older, my tastes move further into the past (zep, the doors, jimi, all the way to sinatra). but i still love metal and will gladly call in sick to go see dio.

metal has working class roots, and as such is the music of the working class in the west. it's culturally intrinsic to a lot of people. what would high school have been without ac dc? a lot lamer, that is for sure.

rock n' roll is about as evil as kittens. it just is. sure there are those scandanavian black metal bands, but those guys are rebelling against what they see as religious poisoning from the mediterranean. christianity was forced on them like it was forced onto native north americans. there is a lot of resentment towards it. they'll work it out eventually.

i'm more stoked about hearing metal from other planets someday. just like the sabbath song "supernaut" where the radio waves are carrying their song across space and thus they will "live forever", i want to hear the pioneers from other star systems to see if they can bring the rock or not.

\m/ peace \m/

voidofsilence

03-07-2009, 12:45 PM

nirvanapirate

03-07-2009, 04:25 PM

no rock is not evil. the rock experience is very liberating. people who are predisposed to be angry or get violent, might use rock as a catalyst to get angry, very much like alcohol, and certainly you can think of some examples. have you ever been at a big concert like metallica or korn, thrashed around with people, only to find at the end you are truly embracing:d some of these other people.

same with rap, there is nothing inherirantly evil about it. the popular black community is lacking in archtypes. i think good example of positive r&b artists would be like :cool:wyclef jean, you know very well dressed and well spoken. with the rap sub-culture though, you have this :mad:hyper-masculine display of objects (money, cars, excessive :rolleyes:boobies and gluttony), all of which don't mean anything because the 'soul' in that group is lacking.

starborne

03-07-2009, 05:40 PM

ETguy

03-07-2009, 06:27 PM

etguy, do you find that metallica's new album has a lot of reference to end times/2012. or if not reference, that it somehow put's the idea of end times in the listeners head.

well, i haven't heard metallica's newest album. i like their older stuff best. i don't doubt for a second that there are those kinds of references hidden in the open in their songs, though. what i'm particularly fascinated by is the amount of doomsday movies that are coming out in rapid succession:

2012
knowing
blindness
the day the earth stood still
i am legend

all these movies have the collapse of humanity as their basic underlying plots.
[please pm for link] history channel also had an "armageddon week" not too long ago.

whenever i watch these kinds of doomsday movies i like to look for deeper encoded meanings, and i do believe that i've found some.
(if you haven't seen blindness then don't read this, it's a fantastic movie.)

---- start spoiler alert ----
in blindness a deadly virus spreads which causes people to go blind (shocker). obviously, this blindness leaves people unable to identify each other directly: they rely on touch and hearing for identification. i like to think of this massive worldwide blindness as the veil in third density. just as the blindness makes it impossible to see the faces of other selves, so does the veil make it impossible to see the thoughts of other selves.
what is even more interesting is the effect blindness has on people in the movie. it causes people resort to primitive tribal behavior. again, i like to think that there are definitive parallels between the veil and the blindness in causing primitive behavior. the blindness makes it harder for people to recognize each other, which in turn creates fear and aggression. this is the exact effect the veil has in third density.
the movie ends with people regaining their vision, causing a feeling of ecstasy at finally being able to see each other clearly again.
i interpret this as the lifting of the veil.

in the day the earth stood still, there is a scene where keanu reeve's character has a conversation with an "undercover alien" in the form of an old man who has spent a lifetime on earth. he talks about being alienated and not understanding "their ways". obviously, this is a metaphor for the wanderer. the fact that they used an old man as the undercover alien was probably a way to illustrate that wanderers are old souls. actual wanderers incarnate on earth right now tend to be pretty young.
---- end spoiler alert ----

one shouldn't dwell on this too much though, if you watch and read too much of this stuff then i'm pretty sure you'll develop some form of anxiety disorder eventually. the higher abstract part of the brain is able to rationalize that death should not be feared, that death is not the end, and so forth. however, the primitive part of your brain is going to go "threat! threat! activate preservation/fear response!" no matter how much you rationalize.

i could go on and on about this, but i'm really drifting off the topic which should be about music, not movies, so i'll cut it short here.

voidofsilence

03-08-2009, 07:10 AM

alien metal? oh god, that would be cool as hell! hehe something tells me the annunaki have some huge instruments tuned way low! maybe it would sound more like klingon opera, that stuff sounded pretty heavy and "dark sounding".

another band that i almost forgot about is loudness. i'm fairly new to them, but i'm completely amazed by the technicality of the music. as technical as it is, it doesn't sacrifice good taste, it has a great rythem. akira takasaki is truely a musical god!!! lol:rolleyes:

strapping young lad is also pretty out there with their riffing. it's no wonder that steve vai invited them to record at his "mother ship studios" (yeah that's really the name of vai's studio). and speaking of mr. vai, he is without a doubt very much in tune with being spiritually active in his song compositions... i can't even refer to what he does as writing songs like everyone else does, he's in a class all by himself. the song "i know you're here" is a perfect example of him being spritually aware. uli jon roth as well, he and his sky guitar are very much on a high plane of sonic enlightenment.

the newest mayhem album (yes the infamous mayhem from norway) "ordo ad chao" is actually a concept album about the anunnaki. its a pretty dark black metal album. i think it is just a concept that reveals the idea of the anunnaki etc, not sure if it is a pro or negative stance on it or not.
the reason i say this as i have read a lot of interviews with the vocalist attila who seems to be one of the more intelligent person's of this genre. i know he is a vegetarian and knows a lot about the chakra's and other stuff like that which i do remember him talking about in a positive sense as well about the suppressed long lost human abilities.

Fulcanelli

03-09-2009, 01:26 PM

unfortunately i cannot find this particular zappa interview on youtube now since there are just too many meanwhile.

there he was sitting with this very conservative lady with a christian slant (almost a becky fisher type) who insisted that rock music made people do bad things; violence and all that.

zappa replied with his usual aplomb that there was absolutely no evidence that rock fans were any more violent than other people, stating that charles manson (or ted bundy) had mentioned wayne newton as his favorite singer.

certainly wayne newton does not make people kill either, but that was one very good rebuttal of a false theory on rock music.

i am not sure of the intention of some 'dark' metal bands (and i do not take the lyrics issue too lightly), but i think if rock per se were evil, we'd see some more actual evidence in the form of rampaging, looting and murdering fans after gwar concerts.

Chris Hamilton

03-12-2009, 03:38 PM

hello all,

just as a reminder when discussing your rock'n'roll stuff, is that we are a spirituality forum. so, if you post here you should have some correlation between your likes or dislikes and how it is spiritually fulfilling or teaching you something or why the song is spiritually significant etc. just to post that you like metal music gives our members no idea why it is a spiritual help for you, just as an example. obviously, posts with explicit lyrics or songs that have explicit lyrics, will be removed, as they are obviously not focused on any kind of positive spirituality;)

we have many good posts here that combine the spirituality with the music, so dive in and see what is in all these pages (at least 6 i think by now). enjoy! chris

lebowski san

03-13-2009, 05:53 AM

Teodor Rosca

03-15-2009, 03:56 PM

of course not! just follow your soul bud!

aqcheryl

03-18-2009, 04:55 AM

music is but a tool - it can be used to soothe, and to harm... it is not the tool that is evil, but rather the wielder. one also needs to remain unbiased when listening to lyrics to determine their take on them, and even then, they must not impose their will upon others.

i love all kinds of music, and this includes from 80s hard rock, to some thrash (some of it i cant get past the screaming lol)... but i listen to such bands as rammstein and cradle of filth.

there is a vast misunderstanding (and stereotype) that all those who dwell in the dark are wholly evil - but they are not. there are many reported cases of dark angels saving people. so its not all black and white.

why do i bring this up here? because it applies to music as well - there are many musicians who are dark, and thusly write as such - but they are stereotyped as evil due to a general lack of understanding.

again music is but the tool, and not at fault. but as such, those who wield it for "evil" purposes, i feel do so in such a way that you do not notice if you are not on guard spiritually. there are songs that make you feel upset, or bad - there are songs that work to remove your free will in biased opinions, such things, to me, are the examples of when it would be 'evil', and this occurs in all genres.

starborne

03-18-2009, 09:33 PM

i'll use an example of a song's lyrics to show how it could be interpreted as being full of esoterical/spiritual meaning, and also still carry a stigma of both light and dark, depeding on what the listener wishes to take from it.

the song is "into the infinity of thoughts" by emperor. i'll only include a section of the lyrics, you can look up the song for the full lyrics.

i gaze into the moon which makes my mind as pure as crystal lakes.
my eyes as cold as the darkest winter nights, but yet there is a flame inside.
it guides me into the dark shadows beyond this world,
into the infinity of thoughts, thoughts of upcomming reality.

as you can see, it is a pretty interesting passage that's more poetry than song lyrics, but you can see what i mean by it having a dark theme to it, but it is able to be seen as something so very much more than "evil". i've always loved that passage as it's on the back of one of my shirts (i happen to be wearing it right now too! :cool: lol!). the rest of the song, and music beind it is very dark and very "evil sounding", but more of a mysterious, atmospheric sound than anything else. then again, i've never really perceived this song as being truely evil, even though it was the intent of the songwriters at the time. if you ever have the chance to listen to the song, it really is quite beautiful and deep in it's composition, you can tell they were classically influenced. the amazing part is learning that they were no older than 13-14 when the song was recorded, that right there blew my mind!

ok, one more song title that you all can research and than i'm done (sorry, it's a pretty integral song that started my spiritual awakening). the majesty of the night sky. the part of the song that is the start of the last half, when it breaks down into the slower part, when the wind starts blowing. that part right there with the string section that comes in is just so... moving. it really does make you want to stand up proudly, but also it makes you want to cry. very powerful stuff.

starborne

03-18-2009, 10:45 PM

i know of the d.townsend album you're talking about.

i picked up something the other day that was mind blowing, at least in an audio sense. rainbow live in hamburg '73. how could blackmore make those sounds? pure genius melding musical training with his trade of radio repairman. we should all meld art with our trades and make the world a better place - maybe thats what alien metal artitists did :)

but as an aside here, dio sings in "man on the silver mountain"- get down with fire, raise your spirit higher - is there an illumanti/luciferian theme here? would that make it evil by promoting one path? interesting...

ah, i was wondering when someone would pull out a dio lyric! rainbow's long live rock n' roll is the first cd i've ever owned. it was my christmas present along with my first cd player!

man on the silver mountain has always made me wonder (along with most other dio tunes) just what the inspiration was beind it. he seems to be pretty spiritually aware, i mean just listen to the last in line album and you can hear that wonderful spirit of the 80's that has been missing from music for so many years. :( it's still just as cool to listen to those songs now as they were when i rode around listening to the cassette in my mom's porche back in the day. there's a magical feeling about that album... "always a mystery."

aqcheryl

03-19-2009, 01:03 PM

thank you - im going to look those two up. im drawn to the dark music myself, they seem to inspire emotion in me when all else fails... so to me the lyric you mention about the cold eyes has significance to me, that someone who has a hard time feeling emotion is looking deeper for it, and for meaning.

for too long society has stigmatized certain music as evil, so i find that at that point, the musicians proudly admit to it - because its basically a statement that - "if being different makes me evil, then im proud to be it". and technically even then, evil has a new definition. it is not pure evil, but rather just a descriptive term. for example, i love being evil - bwahahahahahahaaaaaaaa

it just proves people have to get out of old thinking.

there is one band, my favorite band out of all of them, that is a goth band, however their lyrics are anything but evil. in fact they are more spiritual than people realize. you can look them up the cruxshadows - their website is their name and you can hear samples of audio on there.

but look at these lyrics:

from the song birthday:

and tell me what really matters
is it the money & the fame?
or how many people might
eventually know your name?

but maybe you touch one life
and the world becomes a better place to be
maybe you give their dreams
another day, another chance to be free...

from the song eye of the storm (and this to me is in reference to those of us who fight for good):

i believe in what i fight for
and i have paid for it with pain
i am here because my contributions
may help turn this fate away
and all who stood by and did nothing
who are they to criticize?
the sacrifices of others-
our blood has bought their lives...

from sophia (very 5thd knowledge):

do not injustice to another
defend the weak & innocent
may truth & honor always guide you
let courage find a life within
stand up when no one else is willing
act not in anger or in spite
be to this world as a perfect knight
even if it means your life...

Zenith

03-23-2009, 03:25 AM

hi all, check out 'queen vs satan' by dj lobsterdust for the true answer to
the question- is rock and roll evil?:d

aqcheryl

03-24-2009, 01:50 AM

i just came across this music that from the little i have found, the spiritual stuff is very... oh i dislike saying uplifting lol but really hits a chord.

armand and angelina(.com), you can hear excerpts of their music on their website.

starborne

03-24-2009, 05:18 PM

i know this is supposed to be for determining the morality of rock n' roll music, but if you'd like to hear something more spiritually inclined, check out steve vai. i believe i've mentioned him before as being spiritually aware (just check out his album art), not everything he does is, but the song "i know you're here" is very interesting indeed.

now aside from rock, there is some pretty cool reiki inspired music by number of people. one such individual is anuveda. check it out, it's not quite as cool as larry seyer's "elixers" album, but it's definetly nice and relaxing... great for meditation/ lightwork. :)

Roehrborn

03-26-2009, 02:49 AM

perhaps you should look into the work of cleve baxter who experimented with living human cells. when these cells were
exposed to hard rock music they shrivelled.

mmariebored

03-26-2009, 07:35 AM

perhaps you should look into the work of cleve baxter who experimented with living human cells. when these cells were
exposed to hard rock music they shrivelled.
a theory about that is, the observer's own feelings about the music and the message of the music may have effected the cells. if the observer didn't have harsh feelings about that music, as opposed to music he found more pleasant, why would he think of the test in the first place?
it's a theory i've always felt was possible, that intelligence can be transferred between observer and observed, in the same way love can, and hate/anger.

aqcheryl

03-26-2009, 12:28 PM

a theory about that is, the observer's own feelings about the music and the message of the music may have effected the cells. if the observer didn't have harsh feelings about that music, as opposed to music he found more pleasant, why would he think of the test in the first place?
it's a theory i've always felt was possible, that intelligence can be transferred between observer and observed, in the same way love can, and hate/anger.

i agree with this. it depends on how you feel about the music, how you interpret it. when we are angry our dna tightens. when we are happy it becomes loose.

so if you dont like classical music, and are forced to listen to it - it will show the same results.

im perfectly happy listening to all kinds of music - and i do not feel anger listening to rock, hard rock, metal, industrial metal or even thrash metal.

starborne

03-26-2009, 04:56 PM

im perfectly happy listening to all kinds of music - and i do not feel anger listening to rock, hard rock, metal, industrial metal or even thrash metal.

slayer!!!! lol!!! sorry had to get that out!:d

starborne

03-26-2009, 05:26 PM

oh, i almost forgot. emperor has a song that is a rather short instrumental called the wanderer! it's quite the beautiful piece that almost anyone can get into. it does have a sort of melancholic feel to it, but also it paints a vast landscape of sonic beauty. my take on it is the wanderer's point of view; being an enlightened being on an otherwise unenlightened earth. again, that's just my take on what the song represents, but by all means, look it up and listen and tell me what you think. :)

voidofsilence

03-26-2009, 07:39 PM

ya know i have really been feeling like doing something really relevant to the whole 2012 in my music or something overall just more spiritual and enlightening. as i type this i realized that i already have been doing this and perhaps it is just my evolutionary process of graduation, but on a musical level as well.

for example, the band i play drums in we are close to the black or death metal genre, but we wrote a song which i coined the lyrics for called "lost not forgotten", which is about the aztec culture which was basically destroyed by the conquistidors etc and just my views on how beautiful that culture was and though it was lost for a while, it was definetly not forgotten.

i have background in black and death metal and as a songwriter have been definetly been seeing myself just more influenced by the shift in not only the world that i definetly feel is in the air, but my life too. it definetly resonates that this shift is something positive and that the doom and glood is a result of fear, i mean it is not too hard to see that really. so naturally i am confident that my musical works now and in the upcoming future will be pretty unique and something i am definetly going to enjoy, more so than stuff i deep down inside just could not relate to in the past such as the satan thing or the negative aspects of all the black and death metal culture.

the music will probably still be dark, but i have pretty much felt that it is possible to transcend the duality and make light and darkness the very same thing. i find myself attracted to the darkness, so i guess it will just flow as i allow it.

the emperor stuff you mentioned is of course "classic". trym is one of my all time favorite drummers. i have the chance to meet him and samoth a few times at some zyklon gigs. i am pretty sure that ihsahn is no longer a satanist as you can tell by his recent works. i remember seeing some interviews with him back in the old emperor days, where he was definetly more of a satanist and serious about it. nowadays you can tell he just evolved as a person past all that, so that is a pretty good example i would say of how someone can easily transcend the boundries and still do some sick metal out of it.

mmariebored

03-26-2009, 08:02 PM

i won't buy music that sells a violence-promoting message. i'm not talking about negative warnings of things that might happen, but down right instructions for the listeners to do violence.

"enlightened" people should know that all actions begin as thoughts. songs introduce thoughts, it repeats the thoughts over and over until the thought has carved a thick groove into the brain with those instructions on it. instructions that can be accessed when the driver of that brain is taking a break(drinking/under stress/fasting etc).

so basically, if i were doing the experiment, the plants would "shrivel". i don't like harsh music.

aqcheryl

03-27-2009, 01:41 AM

all music genres have someone promoting negative ideals. but that doesnt mean all of that kind do.

rap is the worst to represent negative ideals, but i know there are rap artists out there who do not promote violence in their music. musically i dont like rap, but i wont label all of it as bad and stereotype it.

then you have, again with all genres, those who do sing those kinds of things, they dont always do in every song. for example guns n roses has quite a few negative ones, but many others that are not, and those songs i listen to, while i generally avoid the negative ones.

i believe that if you are a weak person, you will allow outside interference to influence your thoughts and actions, and you should avoid being exposed to it. but there are many who have a strong constitution, who do not allow outside influence, and therefore can be exposed to certain things.

a true enlightened person understands these things, that it is our responsibility and our actions that lead to these things. they also do not dictate what enlightenment is or what others should do. so when you have these artists who do promote violence, they are not enlightened.

i agree with marie that no matter what, music that has negative lyrics, does not provide a pleasant environment, and i do not like either. its not the style of music, its the message in the music.

and on a side note to that, i dont like listening to those kind of lyrics because seriously, where is the intelligent thought? its just proof they cant get out of the base sex and violence and find any other important things to write about. sheesh

mmariebored

03-27-2009, 09:31 AM

i agree with marie that no matter what, music that has negative lyrics, does not provide a pleasant environment, and i do not like either. its not the style of music, its the message in the music.
(i should really be doing art right now but i needed to reply)
that's how i feel about it too. i usually have on my radio soft rock stations only, but even they can have messages that i don't approve of. if a song comes on that has a negative message, such as a song promoting female jealousies or promoting suspicions between mates, unforgiveness, etc., anything that pushes towards negative thought patterns is destructive to my development and i change the channel. the genre doesn't matter usually.

and on a side note to that, i dont like listening to those kind of lyrics because seriously, where is the intelligent thought? its just proof they cant get out of the base sex and violence and find any other important things to write about. sheesh
i like to read the lyrics of artists when they were young and watch their development through their years of creativity. i find that fascinating. they do "grow up", and in the most interesting and varied ways. it's like reading a documentary. life is beautiful when you look at it as a whole picture.

i don't envy your situation with your neighbors, though, i'm not sure how i'd handle that. it's something that seems to know how to sneak up when you least need the "test", like when you were already having a bad day. i was fortunate enough to be able to regulate the music in my household. once, my sister told me to "learn to like the music", and i said, it really isn't even the erratic way the music is played so much as it is the lyrics placing negative sublims in my children's minds...but really, the music was effecting my mood. both because i didn't like what the lyrics were doing and because the tempo of a song has a way of effecting your entire being. several things were at work there and because it's hard to look at it from an elevated perspective when you're in the middle of it, it's hard to overcome it then. the trick is to prepare yourself for the mental assault in the morning when you wake up, telling yourself you won't be upset by whatever comes your way. funny because when i talked to my sister some time after her suggestion, my husband was playing his music loudly in the backround(thank god for itunes headphones now, on him, sparing the whole house) she started exaggeratedly yelling, "omg, that music is driving me crazy!! i'm getting upset just hearing it in the backround!" and she was serious, it can have that effect. i didn't remind her of her suggestion(she has her own problems to deal with).;)

Ali Quadir

03-27-2009, 07:20 PM

how do you guys feel about the notion of catharsis? meaning that the negativity in the music might help release some of the negativity inside of us? i know in my darker days that i occasionally used very dark music to release my frustrations in a way that harmed no one but a way that was certainly not acceptable to my deeply religious ancestors.

the music did not make me violent. i was violent on the inside. i gravitated towards the violent music because i felt like that. and the music released the violence because it was invoked in me and i could express it in a way that harmed none in dance and in going into that darkness. exploring it without harming allowed me to understand without judging.

these days for reasons that won't be clear to anyone i love russian rap, but when i put on one of the old numbers i still understand. perhaps we are all angels with raven wings?

:) perhaps lordi said it right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqqhpcczv60

starborne

03-27-2009, 11:04 PM

i do agree with all of the points raised here in one way or another. there are certain types of music that do rub me the wrong way to the point of me changing the station, or at least walking away from the source if at all possible. i won't get into what types they are, but nonetheless, they do cause a great deal of discomfort in the form of extreme boredom. being a guitarist, i rarely listen to or pay any attention to the lyrics of songs and just focus on the melody or beat of the song unless i find the lyrics to be of special meaning to me.

i grew up from a very early age listening to a lot of "negatively oriented" music with some rather unenlightened lyrics and i didn't turn out to be a violent angry individual in the least. that's just me of course, there very well may be others out there who did pick a few things up from whatever they watched, or listened to, but it's also my feeling that those individuals who made their poor discisions, are victims of the environment they were brought up in. obviously if a child grows up in an abusive household where the parent(s) was (were) deeply religious and "moraly higher" (in their own minds), then it's possible that the child will grow up to have some pretty warped morals and some deeply seeded anger/violence issues. now don't misunderstand what i'm saying about growing up in a religious family, i'm just making up a purely hypothetical situation to make a point.

even though my own childhood may not have been the best, i was still shown through example of behavior the difference between right and wrong. i still listened to some pretty negative music (especially when i became a teenager), but i don't feel they had a negative impact on me. quite the contrary. i, like others on here, took solice from the darker music. it was a soothing, comforting energy that really balanced me out, i found something to relate to.

knowing what i know now about the power of thoughts, it is possible that my spiritual growth may have been stunted a bit from the negativity, but without a good number of those bands that most would find unsavory to say the least had a huge part in my awakening. they drew my attention away from the status quo conservative, right wing, 2.5 kids, white picket fence type of life, and more into the other side of the fence so to speak. it got me to be a bit more bold and open minded about different ideas of our exsistence, to start reading things that were taboo, occult, evil... whathaveyou. i never considered myself to be a satanist, but did agree with some of the ideals of actually being honest with yourself and others. i read the necronomicon with wonder and amazement, all the while scaring the heck out of everyone around me, but i survived. all of these things that i found myself investigating with an open mind and curious heart lead me to the path less traveled, which led me to the great river which i cautiously dipped my toes in at first, but later dove into head first. the very river that madmen drown in, but mystics swim in... and no, i didn't even put on my water wings! ;) lol

what i'm trying to say is, exactly what my signature now says: embrace the uncertainty. if it scares you, look at it, and ask why it scares you. you'll be surprised to find what little there is to fear. we're all one, and all is good and as it should be. so be it, and so it is. :)

aqcheryl

03-28-2009, 12:25 AM

i don't envy your situation with your neighbors, though, i'm not sure how i'd handle that. it's something that seems to know how to sneak up when you least need the "test", like when you were already having a bad day.

according to the amount of time it occurs, ive been having a bad day since fall 2007 - its ongoing with them.

i was fortunate enough to be able to regulate the music in my household. once, my sister told me to "learn to like the music", and i said, it really isn't even the erratic way the music is played so much as it is the lyrics placing negative sublims in my children's minds...but really, the music was effecting my mood. both because i didn't like what the lyrics were doing and because the tempo of a song has a way of effecting your entire being.

its not just that - i find its a cop out for people to say things like that. they would feel differently if it was them experiencing it. when someone imposes their will on you, they are literally forcing themselves on you - no one likes that. in my case, it takes away my free will to have peace and quiet.
most of the time here, you cant even hear the music lyrics or notes only the beats. the bass. ive never had a problem with others having the right to practice free will and listen to whatever they want - usually i dont care - its only when its forced on me that it becomes an issue. as you say, the tempo affects your being.

several things were at work there and because it's hard to look at it from an elevated perspective when you're in the middle of it, it's hard to overcome it then. the trick is to prepare yourself for the mental assault in the morning when you wake up, telling yourself you won't be upset by whatever comes your way.

actually i have been trying that, but nothing happens overnight and if you make one mistake and get fear again, the cycle repeats. and its so very hard not to when they do it on their own. the anxiety comes from them doing it, not them doing it because of the anxiety. but when you have them doing it all the time, you are anxious all the time and in a sense it could seem a pre-cursor, when it really isnt.

funny because when i talked to my sister some time after her suggestion, my husband was playing his music loudly in the backround(thank god for itunes headphones now, on him, sparing the whole house) she started exaggeratedly yelling, "omg, that music is driving me crazy!! i'm getting upset just hearing it in the backround!" and she was serious, it can have that effect. i didn't remind her of her suggestion(she has her own problems to deal with).;)

lol well thats like i said above, sure when it happens to them... lol

aqcheryl

03-28-2009, 12:52 AM

how do you guys feel about the notion of catharsis? meaning that the negativity in the music might help release some of the negativity inside of us?
the music did not make me violent. i was violent on the inside.

i do agree we tend to gravitate to music that matches how we feel or who we are even. so in a sense its not the music that does it, it is indeed us.

i have never been drawn to liking violent music - but i am a dark soul. i love the darkness and dwell within it. there is a misnomer of what this means, and people think the darkness reflects negativity when it in fact doesnt.

i wrote an article months ago about this... [please pm cheryl for the link]

i am drawn to gothic music, that is who i am. and my favorite goth band is cruxshadows- you can see more of them at http://www.myspace.com/cruxshadows. i posted earlier some lyrics from them.. again they are a goth band and the message in their lyrics is very much like this:

when life has slipped behind this isolation
cruelty & hatred have become
the cause of those whose eyes are full of wanting
the truth will still abandon none...
so you must carry this light into the darkness
you shall be a star unto the night
you will find hope alive among the hopeless
that is your purpose to this life
...
do not injustice to another
defend the weak & innocent
may truth & honor always guide you
let courage find a life within
stand up when no one else is willing
act not in anger or in spite
be to this world as a perfect knight
even if it means your life...

leo scone

03-28-2009, 06:09 AM

i think you've got it there ali quadir.

when an artist creates a song they are attempting to express an emotion of some sort. and we are all here incarnate on this third density world to experience the wide variety of emotional experiences available for our soul education, though we don't necessarily all want to go through all the experiences necessary to generate the emotion in ourselves. but with music we can access all those states, internalize them, and have a chance then to balance the energy without living out the drama or trauma involved.

totally cathartic. used as a tool. endlessly and mindlessly listened to is another story though.

of course, to my mind, variety is key. i think a steady diet of light and easy, heavily self-edited music would do me as much damage as a non-stop diet of rap would!

it's like peanuts. some people think they are allergic to peanuts. some people truly are allergic to peanuts, and should stay away from them at all costs. but for the rest of us, peanuts aren't evil because someone else has an allergy to them.

mmariebored

03-28-2009, 07:00 AM

how do you guys feel about the notion of catharsis? meaning that the negativity in the music might help release some of the negativity inside of us? i know in my darker days that i occasionally used very dark music to release my frustrations in a way that harmed no one but a way that was certainly not acceptable to my deeply religious ancestors.

1rst, i know better atheists than "religious" people, the difference is, one gets their standards from a book and the other seeks inward. the reason i'm saying this is your post makes it seem only "deeply religious" people would have a problem with harsher messages in music.

2nd, are you saying that inside of every man is an inner (charles)manson waiting to be released? who needs music to sooth his savage beast in order not to build up fury which can be released if, say, a chemical imbalance, or some other issue arises that causes him to mistake his fantasies for reality? please elaborate. :confused:

aqcheryl

03-28-2009, 08:55 AM

you ever have worries or frustrations at something, and it sits on your shoulder and you dont like that you think on them, but they wont go away? but then you write it down, either as a letter, or journal entry, and suddenly nothing is as bad anymore, because its a release...
i think thats what ali means by release. manson actually has a couple of good songs - i do not own any of his albums, just have a few of the songs, but the ones i have in their own way are speaking out against social views. not that i care for his actions as a person, or much of the rest of the music. lol

we are an equal balance of both sides, and understanding this helps one forgive themselves. but see as dumbledore explained to harry [potter], "it is our choices, harry, that show what we are, far more than our abilities."

Ali Quadir

03-28-2009, 09:57 AM

we are an equal balance of both sides, and understanding this helps one forgive themselves. but see as dumbledore explained to harry [potter], "it is our choices, harry, that show what we are, far more than our abilities."

that's what i meant indeed :) and it's always the movies giving us great quotes isn't it? :) i always feel dorky when i use yoda to explain some profound insight. but it can't be helped the green muppet is wise beyond his plastic :)

catharsis is a release of pressure. freud called our basic driving forces thanatos and eros. if we deny the existence of one of these forces or one of the forces in a specific situation then we are repressing those energies which stop them from being released. energies that are not released will build up, over days years or decades until they pop. and then there's another kid who gets his 15 minutes of attention because he brings his gun to school. or another priest effectively ends his career by putting his hands on a kid in ways he should not do. it does not matter anymore it feels so good to let go that they become blind to the suffering this causes.

accepting the shadow and expressing it might reduce the symptoms to a few sharp words or a love affair between a priest and a widow. in my opinion if it harms none... it may be naughty but it is never really evil. it's just the same energies that can produce evil if they are pent up.

(i will have to check out cruxshadows :) i checked out deception on google vids. it sounds great. )

aqcheryl

03-28-2009, 10:42 AM

that's what i meant indeed :) and it's always the movies giving us great quotes isn't it? :) i always feel dorky when i use yoda to explain some profound insight. but it can't be helped the green muppet is wise beyond his plastic :)

rofl seriously - there are many great quotes - and even more great ones in the potter books vs the movies; jk rowling definitely understands much about all of this - and you know the story of how the potter books came to her - she was riding on the train and she suddenly was 'told', she listened and from there started writing everything down and went from there.

energies that are not released will build up, over days years or decades until they pop.

yes exactly. i prefer to talk things out instead of ignoring them whenever an issue arises, because otherwise the issues fester. even if you convince yourself you are fine, you suddenly find in the future since its unresolved, its added to the list of issues and it gets brought up then. at the same time, while it festers it changes your view on the person slowly until you see them differently. and yet by simply talking about the issue you find just maybe it was a misunderstanding on your part.

accepting the shadow and expressing it might reduce the symptoms to a few sharp words or a love affair between a priest and a widow. in my opinion if it harms none... it may be naughty but it is never really evil. it's just the same energies that can produce evil if they are pent up.

it definitely is meant to happen... yin and yang - balance in all things. without balance comes chaos.

(i will have to check out cruxshadows :) i checked out deception on google vids. it sounds great. )

also look up youtube, people put the songs to anime videos lol - but you get to hear the song. look up the song immortal

what endures beyond the silent edge is the essence found within
have we forgotten truly who we are and what our living means?
our purpose lies, in others eyes, and the realities that we bring