Question about serving others

[HeavyFlea]

i've had this thought that i can't get rid of and thought i'd ask it here, wondering what opinions i can dig up.

so i have a decent grasp on the law of one, and i think i've pretty much chosen the path of serving others... i actually feel i may be a wanderer in the classic descriptions from l&l, but in a way we all are and i'm not interested in labels. but if we are supposed to feel suffering and pain as we learn from these experiences... but i'm supposed to help and love humanity. well how do you choose to help and serve when your affecting another self's experiences. are you in fact do a dis-service in helping someone say cope with a particular catalyst when they are feeling what they should, and perhaps even having the deeper emotions made okay or dulled when they could have felt it to it's full extent, thus having the full benefit of experience.

i've had this feeling that i'm supposed to bring harmony and light into the world and love mankind regardless of how stupid we can be. (it's so hard sometimes.) i'm one and the same... but why help. isn't there a purpose to pain and suffering... if by "helping to serve others" are we not really only serving the self anyway. why do you do it, it makes you feel good... so is it not a selfish motive in the long run. i mean i generally want the best for everyone, but that best i figure is the oneness getting the full experience of love and sorrow just the same. we judge one being better than the other but if all is one there's no difference and all polarity's of existence should be felt at all extremes. so do we really help others in there suffering and darkness or in love and light. it also seems to me that there's a very fine line between serving others and serving self, often times crossing over... when in fact you think your aiding, can you actually be serving self.

in fact i think serving only the self and serving others is very confusing... because it's kind of the same thing. but serving oneself through manipulation of another's will seems to be the differing aspect in my mind. i mean having control over another is different than just being of service to self. is it not?

[twva]

timeless questions and fun to try to answer. i'm sure others will weigh in at more length, but here are a couple of suggestions.



well how do you choose to help and serve when your affecting another self's experiences. are you in fact do a dis-service in helping someone say cope with a particular catalyst when they are feeling what they should, and perhaps even having the deeper emotions made okay or dulled when they could have felt it to it's full extent, thus having the full benefit of experience.

try meditating on "the balance between love and wisdom."


i've had this feeling that i'm supposed to bring harmony and light into the world and love mankind regardless of how stupid we can be. (it's so hard sometimes.) i'm one and the same... but why help. isn't there a purpose to pain and suffering... if by "helping to serve others" are we not really only serving the self anyway. why do you do it, it makes you feel good... so is it not a selfish motive in the long run. i mean i generally want the best for everyone, but that best i figure is the oneness getting the full experience of love and sorrow just the same. we judge one being better than the other but if all is one there's no difference and all polarity's of existence should be felt at all extremes. so do we really help others in there suffering and darkness or in love and light. it also seems to me that there's a very fine line between serving others and serving self, often times crossing over... when in fact you think your aiding, can you actually be serving self.

it seems like there might be a clue in ra's constant refrain, at the end of every session, to go forth rejoicing. maybe joy is the hallmark of the positive path.

it does take great subtlety to recognize one's own self-serving thoughts and inclinations -- again, meditation can help. also dream work.

finally, don't underestimate the power of faith. have faith in the creator, in yourself, and your polarity. with faith, you are ready for whatever comes.


in fact i think serving only the self and serving others is very confusing... because it's kind of the same thing. but serving oneself through manipulation of another's will seems to be the differing aspect in my mind. i mean having control over another is different than just being of service to self. is it not?

can you give an example of how you would be of service to self without manipulating others?

[MarkM]

i recall the old 'odd couple' tv series in which felix insisted on helping a little old lady across the street against her objections. he endured a pretty heavy handbag-roundhouse for his troubles!

in the condo complex where i live, one often sees some very old folks sitting in the lobby, just to watch the human traffic, to break up the monotony and loneliness. it is such a great gift to merely make eye contact, smile, and say hello! in many cases, they've trundled all the way downstairs, sometimes with great difficulty, just for this small affirmation of their own humanity. here, you have answered a plea for help.

in a circumstance where help is not desired, one may yet send unconditional love and light with the intent that the higher self of the other may use this offering as best suits. it's easy to do, you need only the intent and the visualization. i don't think the free will of the individual is compromised, in this way.

helping others is, generally speaking, done at the behest of the prospective 'helpee' -- in other words, to press help where none is asked for may infringe upon free will. help may be freely offered, but it can be 'service to others' to gracefully accept that it isn't wanted.

pain and suffering are not 'supposed to happen', in the sense that pain and suffering in and of themselves have an intrinsic value to us. i don't think they do, although one may rightfully argue that joy is only known against the contrasting backdrop of sorrow, and that hardship breeds character. i gather there will be much less pain and suffering in 4d, though, yet a more joyous existence. (please note, these are just my personal thoughts, offered freely)

here, careful discrimination is necessary -- although pain and suffering are unavoidable in this world, and a necessary feature of learning through trial and error how to overcome the illusion of separateness, the purpose of them is mainly to alert us to the fact that our current condition is a potential catalyst for change/learning, whether individually or collectively.

this potential catalyst for change is wherein the real value lies, not the pain itself. the value of pain and suffering is only as a means to an end. the religious devotee who flogs himself or wears the cruel 'cilice' under his robes may do well to ponder this. our higher selves certainly wish or cause us no pain -- we do that to ourselves, generally as a result of not heeding our life's lessons; and we are all guilty of that -- individually, and collectively!

as we witness the pain and suffering of others, we rightfully recognize that this is not the ideal situation, and we wish to do all we can to help. we don't assume that they are supposed to be in pain, thus choosing to do nothing. we may feel that we can offer insight or some other service that may help.

but their free will choice may be to refuse our offer, and we must respect this above all.

now, service to self can be a good thing, too. it can be argued that until we have served self, we cannot serve others. we take care of our health, our livelihood, our learning, our growth and our happiness.

from such a strong foundation, we can perhaps better serve life. as we learn we are all one, we realize we are not exempt from the need to nurture and love all that there is. perhaps we need to learn to nurture and love ourselves before we're any good to anyone else!

as one advances along the path of love and compassion, it is natural to increasingly sense the sorrow of others, and to perhaps feel despair at our seeming meagre ability to make a difference.

it is said that perhaps the greatest service to others that we can aspire to is to focus on our growing inner awareness of the oneness of all, to contemplate daily our perception of the illusiary nature of separation, and to learn of and feel the love and light implicit in oneness and in every moment.

thus one attains towards unconditional love, acceptance, fearlessness, gratitude and joy, and then radiates into the world at large this same love, light and joy -- as one has now further learned to be a channeler of pure, creative, conscious energy -- as naturally and effortlessly as one breathes.

this is a calling of the lightworker -- to pour conscious love energy into the combined, 'one' energy body of earth and all who live in her sphere, to lessen the collective burden of suffering and confusion, and to hasten and smooth the transition into the next higher density of being.

i believe that all on this forum are capable of doing this job. in fact, i think we already are, automatically. our passion/compassion for seeking love, oneness, and relief from suffering and service for others proves that!

again, these are my 'distorted' thoughts only, not meant to be construed as 'truth'.:)

-mark

[SuperManny]

isn't there a purpose to pain and suffering.
absolutely, there is! infinite intelligence is trying to get your attention!:) i think many times we needlessly prolong our pain and suffering by repressing it, pushing it away; 'i don't have time for this!' etc. pain and suffering are never relieved and released on the same level on which they were created. it is a catalyst; it's trying to tell you something; and most tomes when you get the message the pain and suffering somehow magically vanish.

on the other hand if you view pain and suffering from a soul perspective it can change completely. viewed without judgment and fear, it undergoes a complete and total metamorphosis as the soul joyfully accepts all experience and sensations eagerly.

after surviving a near-fatal car accident a couple years ago, i've learned a great deal about physical pain. if you can just release all your judgment and fear and all your pre-conceived notions of what pain is, it can totally change you and the way you experience it. the pain just is; no longer is it a 'good' thing or a 'bad' thing, it just simply is.


it also seems to me that there's a very fine line between serving others and serving self, often times crossing over... when in fact you think your aiding, can you actually be serving self.
in fact i think serving only the self and serving others is very confusing... because it's kind of the same thing. but serving oneself through manipulation of another's will seems to be the differing aspect in my mind. i do believe that in the ra teachings there's a very big difference between sto and sts. the fact that you feel good when you help others, does not signify that you're serving yourself, it's simply a feeling vibration from your higher self to let you know that you are on your path.
i mean having control over another is different than just being of service to self. is it not?i don't think it is any different, in most cases. i believe most cases of trying to get power or control over others are a clear case of service to self.
unless you consider "having control over another" in such an instance as the leader of a group, if the leader is working for the greater good then of course that would be considered sto.
just my opinion; feel free to make it yours.:)

[HeavyFlea]

can you give an example of how you would be of service to self without manipulating others?

what about avoiding others because you just prefer to be by yourself. say even to the point of not answering phones calls etc. because you'd have to deal with them. - i guess this is in some sense is affecting their will?

or focusing on yourself and your needs before other selves.

i suppose there's all kinds of selfish actions that don't appear to affect the will of another, that might actually do... but at what point does it count towards service to others or to self. would this be question of intent?

[HeavyFlea]

great replies! from everyone, i expected maybe one insightful response, but to get three well thought opinions is fantastic. thank-you.



i do believe that in the ra teachings there's a very big difference between sto and sts. the fact that you feel good when you help others, does not signify that you're serving yourself, it's simply a feeling vibration from your higher self to let you know that you are on your path.i don't think it is any different, in most cases. i believe most cases of trying to get power or control over others are a clear case of service to self.
unless you consider "having control over another" in such an instance as the leader of a group, if the leader is working for the greater good then of course that would be considered sto.
just my opinion; feel free to make it yours.:)

i think i'm trying to draw a sort of line for myself distinguishing the difference... i'm struggling with this a touch, we're all one... so sto is sts etc. i know it's talked about in the ra material, i think it's time for me to go back and consider/meditate on this for awhile. but mainly i'm trying to determine, i think, what's the defining factor in what's what exactly. i'm leaning to this idea of intention, or what you truly will with your thoughts/actions that may not be fully conscious from time to time. that internal choice that's just there i suppose... i kinda feel i'm probably around the 50-50 mark and can see the validity of both. perhaps i haven't fully chosen? but i don't feel the desire to control another's will, actually the thought disgusts me in a weird way that i can't really describe, yet i know i'm not 100% into service to others, i'm very selfish with myself towards other selves at times. but more from withdrawal than anything else... it's weird, people seem to really like me, drawn to me, talk and open up about their problems etc. i can be a social butterfly when i want to, but more often than not i just don't want to. it's like i know there's opportunity to serve and i'm avoiding it, at a subconscious level but sometimes at a conscious level too. so is that in a way sts?

[Goyo]

hello everyone, first time poster here.

heavyflea, to me it seems that you have a strong desire to serve others which is fantastic, but you seem to be slightly confused on how simple it can be to service others. you mentioned that people like to talk to you and open up about their problems to you. just by listening to them can be a wonderful service to them. some times you don't even need to offer any words of sympathy (although it helps at times) to make a difference. one of my best friends suffers from depression at times, although he's doing great now. about 2 months ago he just opened to me all of a sudden with all of his deepest problems. i tried to offer any words of compassion i could. by the end of the talk, he was so relieved. i think part of that relief came from his realization that somebody cares. he isn't all alone in life. like others have said, being that shoulder to cry on is one of the many great ways of servicing others.

i remember in the law of one, ra points out that service to others does not mean having to serve in a soup kitchen, unless you feel drawn towards that. i would personally define service to others as finding the love and compassion with all others in every moment and acting on it. it's harder for me to try to describe service to self, but i would define it as being selfish and disconnecting yourself from all others. i really hope any of this helps you.

[twva]

what about avoiding others because you just prefer to be by yourself. say even to the point of not answering phones calls etc. because you'd have to deal with them. - i guess this is in some sense is affecting their will?

or focusing on yourself and your needs before other selves.

i suppose there's all kinds of selfish actions that don't appear to affect the will of another, that might actually do... but at what point does it count towards service to others or to self. would this be question of intent?

it seems like the question of intent is definitely worth considering, though of course it's possible to lie to oneself there, too.

i think it's appropriate to distinguish between selfishness and service to self. sometimes, like with the examples you gave, being selfish is not a bad thing. rest, downtime, etc. are appropriate and in no way infringe on others.

it might help to consider the chakras in this regard. ra says that energy rises through the chakras seriatim and that we cannot reach the higher chakras if the lower are blocked. and all three of the lower chakras (red - survival, orange - personal identity, yellow - social role) deal with things that can be considered selfish.

another helpful concept for distinguishing sto/sts, for me at least, is radiance vs. absorption. ra uses the phrase "balanced and radiant", which i take as a goal.

it might also help to step back and realize that the service-to-others path is not only about serving others: it's also about serving the creator. and at those times when the others you're trying to serve are really getting on your nerves, it's a great relief to be able to fall back on your relationship with the creator.

[jpstephens2012]

i posted this in another thread this morning. i don't think there is much chance of not being of service to others in this density. the real litmus test is how do you feel about your actions? solitude is something we all need from time to time. service to others does not necessarily imply a requirement of personal contact. meditation to bring more light into the world is an sto exercise as much as any other.

"i used to think that i needed to do something special to be of service to others. my depth of understanding has increased dramatically since that time. in this density all things are service to others. you cannot go through a single day without being of service. i was driving down the street the other day and had to suddenly pull in front of someone abruptly because i was not going to be able to stop in time to avoid hitting the car in front of me. the person behind me experienced a moment of road rage and flew around me giving me the one fingered salute, obviously saying something i don't care to repeat. i was of service to this person as i provided a catalyst by which he was given the opportunity to choose between civility, understanding, and forgiveness or impatience, anger, and frustration. he made his choice. we live in the density of choice. every thing that we do, think, or say is in service to someone in some way."

please take or leave any of this that strikes true with you. :d

namaste

[daresh]

an interesting way to look at the sts/sto idea is through percentages.
for example if you are focussing for 50% or more to serve somebody then it is clearly a service to other event.
if you feel good because of it then this is a natural result of the service.
on the other hand if you do things because you want to get the good feeling and be rewarded and are actually more concentrated on the reward instead of the service then it's pretty mixed and goes to the sts side. giving without expecting something in return is an important principle for me here.
i also noticed for myself that just doing it and not thinking or worrying about it is also very effective :). way of love or fear.
it's also interesting to note that if somebody is truly sts he would not even ask himself if this was service to others or not, this person would just try to find a way to get the most out of the situation for himself...

on earth, there is a small group very sts, focused on greed, fear and all those things my grand mother doesn't like.
on the other side you have a group very sto and in the middle area you have the mass which swings back and forth between sts and sto and are still not making a choice.

i think once you consciously chose the way of sto, the opportunities to be of service and balance your service further arises from itself with each catalyst you experience.
the questions you are asking are an example of this in my view.
and in the end in the law of one, being of service to others is indeed being of service to self. but ofcourse there is a totally different focus.
on this 3d level we are all in the game of making the choice. with the example of not answering phone calls: if you feel you can't be of service, the law of one advised to just withdraw...
one has to respect his own free will to, can't be of service when i don't feel i'm able to... this in turn gives opportunities for reflection and see why one feels how he feels; why you don't want to pick up etc... another thing to remember is that we don't actually have to do something to be of sto, we can radiate peace and love by just being happy and balanced and this is also sto.

also we can be 99% sto but this implies that we are 1% of the time sts. we only need 50% to make it to sto. and for sure this is a proces, getting enlightened and dancing in nirvana from one moment to the other for the rest of this earthly life is possible but not probable for most of us :)

greets,
Unknown

[AmelieJolie]

i too feel that there is no good reason for suffering- at least not the extremities of suffering.

perhaps it is the ultimate destiny of humanity to transmute cruelty, hatred and suffering?

[h2ochris]

reasons are reasons.....i agree the suffering makes no sense, yet if you look at most things we see everyday, most of it doesn't make sense. therefore maybe the suffering is because of our way of life that does not make sense....i think that is the hardest part for me, if it doesn't make sense then why do we feed into it. care for those that around you and if all did that, we would all help each other. i know it is more complicated than that, only because we let it get that way. which generation will pay for our actions... eventually you got to pay. the simplest law of life....karma

[HeavyFlea]

i too feel that there is no good reason for suffering- at least not the extremities of suffering.

perhaps it is the ultimate destiny of humanity to transmute cruelty, hatred and suffering?

i can see the beauty in suffering. especially the extreme. that lost, desperate point of looking to the sky in excruciating pain asking why?? or even physical suffering.

in our reality it sucks. i think it's supposed to or lessons wouldn't be gained to the same degree. i don't think we are supposed to transcend it, rather feel it for all it's worth and all our humanity. for if we ever could transcend it, there'd be no purpose in being here. (outside this reality it's probably easier to take this perspective)

or how about polarity? maybe we learn the depths of joy and love by the extremes of sorrow and hate?

[soup]

somewhere in the ra materials is the idea of "preprogrammed catalyst". an example given was fdr. anyhow, there may be some element to this which acts as a guiding mechanism. here the idea of the higher self as a gardener who has some tools available to guide the growth of the garden.

personally, i've found utility in dwelling on the positive use of word may have better chance of invoking positive states of being. its easier said than done.


soup

[soup]

there may be some connection to "harvest" here - that states of harmony often evoke emotions of harmony may "feed" the higher self with "harmonious energy" which may in some way or another be more nourishing.

sometimes i consider those who sabatoge harmony as those who hold some fear of lack, that getting fed with some strong emotion is better than not getting fed at all. here inlies the idea of choice in what's available to eat and likewise what's available to create to feed onto others (who may simply be your other self in disguise.)

i think that there's likewise plays of hormones going on which influence the quality of emotion a person is able to transduce (as into energies which can be shared and consciously received by others.)


soup

[soup]

...in fact i think serving only the self and serving others is very confusing... because it's kind of the same thing. but serving oneself through manipulation of another's will seems to be the differing aspect in my mind. i mean having control over another is different than just being of service to self. is it not?...



it may be stephen covey's 7 habits that revealed the nature of a synergistic group having a leader who sees the greater good and so can work to lead the individuals of the group to a synergistic mode of being - which in more cases than not is contrasted by so many groups out there unable to do so...to arrive to such a point of synergy. and so it may be that such a leader appears sts in some way, along the way, even though by way of whatever means, the group arrives to a greater way of being by way of such leadership...


soup