Question about remaining karma

[Eris]

I was wondering some things...

What if I am more than 50% STO but I kill someone. (not that I did, or plan to :p )

Will unresolved karma force me to stay in 3rd density despite being STO?

Thanks :)

Also what about children who are to young to have chosen between STO/STS/Undecided? Will they remain in 3rd density?

[AmelieJolie]

I don't have all the answers, but I would personally say that the weight of the sin of killing all depends on the particular situation. The circumstances.
Cruel, calculated torture and cold-blooded murder is the worst you can get. However, if someone kills in self-defense (even though it would be preferable to avoid it), then it would be much different.

I would assume though, that if we are all here for a reason which is to evolve, then to take someone's life would incur incredibly heavy karma, so perhaps this karma would be heavy enough to prevent someone from moving onto the next level of dimension when it happens.

Considering that the "Wonderers" have had to face certain karmic responsibilities they have incurred, it would definitely seem to be the case.


As far as children.....because they are children they have a certain purity. I am quite certain that all innocent life-forms such as children and animals, will automatically be lifted up into the next level when the time comes.


Love.

[SuperManny]

What if I am more than 50% STO but I kill someone. (not that I did, or plan to :p )
Come on 'fess up; you've been thinking about it, haven't you?:)
Seriously, tho it would all depend on circumstances. Ra said once that war was a great potential growth situation And once you've lived and died several thousand times, it's really no big deal. Like, what if s/he killed you in a past life and you had both agreed that you'd kill them this time around?Also what about children who are to young to have chosen between STO/STS/Undecided? Will they remain in 3rd density?This is not a decision made by little children. If they have experienced enough lifetimes/learning/growing and if they are sufficiently polarized, they will be harvested into fourth density. If not, they will be relocated to another third density planet.

[billybobbutterball]

I don't have all the answers, but I would personally say that the weight of the sin of killing all depends on the particular situation. The circumstances.
[snip]
I would assume though, that if we are all here for a reason which is to evolve, then to take someone's life would incur incredibly heavy karma, so perhaps this karma would be heavy enough to prevent someone from moving onto the next level of dimension when it happens.

[snip]

As far as children.....because they are children they have a certain purity. I am quite certain that all innocent life-forms such as children and animals, will automatically be lifted up into the next level when the time comes.

Love.


bbbb here.. SuperManny covered it well, but I could add this bit: One account is that the child Jesus accidently killed a schoolmate by touching him in anger. It was mentioned that his later death on the cross balanced that bit of Karmic entanglement.

Your conception concerning children and animals is a hangover from conventional thinking concerning sin, judgement, etc. instilled through traditional christian theology.

There is a problem with those having a Christian background in that they understandably try to graft it together with the Law of One. There are some points that are mutually exclusive concerning the two philosophies of religious thought and trying to mix them indiscriminately is much like trying to blend oil and water -- the end result is all globbed up and not very attractive!

Being an ex true-believer my opinion --for what it is worth -- is that the holy scriptures are infused with a great deal of negative polarity. I realize that David Wilcock, in his recent radio transcription, mentions the historical certainty of the Jesus records, and that attacks on it are supported by the negative elite. However, personally, after spending several years studying myself out of orthodox christianity -- and having had contact with some of the authors of works investigating this touchy subject -- I'm not of the same mind as David. Historically, there is no objective evidence concerning the major aspects of the bible's account of the Jesus story; the evidence is all circular and depends on the bible itself backing up the bible. (The bible says it: I believe it, and that settles it!") Believe it or not there are no objective witnesses to be found via historical documentation.

and yes, a case can be made for the evidence supporting the validity of the bible not forthcoming because of the Law of Confusion, but in this case it seems overkill.

Othodox christianity is based on the postulate that Jesus as a person is uniquely divine -- a conjectured second person of the fabricated doctrine of the Trinity.

However, according to the RA material, Jesus was a wanderer from a high 4D social memory complex. It is true that the role he had was unique in that he provided a suitable vessel to convey an aspect of the One Creator into this 3D world ... later described as the Holy Spirit, or Christ conciousness, etc. This C.C. was not a permanent endowment catapulting him to the "source". It is reported that other entities do have similar levels of conciousness, and if one expects to be greeted by Jesus in the heavenlies there will be someone of the correct spiritual level to be there to fill the bill. (For the curious, the entity we know of as Jesus is studying in the fifth density.)

The part of Christianity that I do hold universally true is the simple uncluttered doctrine advocating unconditional love and forgiveness for all. (including oneself -- one aspect of the job not easily accomplished by prideful self-loathers!)

So, if you are still with me :) innocence -- babies or animals -- has nothing to do with advancement in density... or that of mere, apparent innocence being something like possessing a Monopoly Game card to get out of jail/hell and go directly to heaven for free. :p

"Who knows what evil lies in the hearts of babes?" The "babe" knows! Deep down that is.

My love to all...and please forgive my over-reacting!

billbob

[AmelieJolie]

Hehe, I love this smilie: :p

Well, I must say....if this is correct.....

I do hope I won't be separated from my boys! :( :confused:

But yes, I remember, as a child.....feeling like an old soul.


Love.

[johnasmodeus]

Ha ha ha...yes

Children aren't really that innocent. It's only our tendency as adults to view our own pasts through rose-colored glasses that tricks us into thinking that they are. Placed in the right environment, a child is just as capable of jaded acts of violence and mayhem as your average adult.

So, I don't see why age would come into consideration for something like this. Likewise, I don't ever remember reading that unresolved karma is a prerequisite for graduation. I mean, look at the STS graduates. Graduation into negative 4th pretty much REQUIRES that one amass a large body of unresolved karma through infliction of suffering on those one sees as "other." I don't see why positive 4th would need to be different.

But that doesn't mean that you just drop your karma and start with a fresh slate, either. I'm certain that even those on the STS path will have opportunities to experience most of the things that they have inflicted on others at some point or another. Didn't Cayce say something about that when he touched on the subject of the alleged immortals on Earth? It was more of a wry hint than his usual surgical clarity, but I definitely got the message that you don't "get away" with much in this universe.

[billybobbutterball]

Ha ha ha...yes

[snip]

Didn't Cayce say something about that when he touched on the subject of the alleged immortals on Earth? It was more of a wry hint than his usual surgical clarity, but I definitely got the message that you don't "get away" with much in this universe.

Hi, John. Yeah, that is a good one.:cool:

One particular Cayce saying that has stuck with me over the years is, "God will not be mocked." I probably remember it so well because that admonition often pops into my mind whenever I get carried away by a bizzare sense of humor.

( Incidentally, one of the stated reasons why Latwii and Ra decided to form the communicating principle of Q'uo was because they don't share the same sense of humor. Personally I think Latwii is a real gas ...gas? Is that the right expression? ...or is that expression now out of date like, say, 23 skidoo ... or the really lame, "Goin' like sixty!" ?) :)

billybizzarro

[MarkM]

I've had a little while to hash around the idea of karma, since studying the concept intensively during my studies of the Edgar Cayce material. It was a pet subject of mine, for some reason I was haunted by the concept of being held accountable for your actions, whether 'positive', or 'negative'.

Years later, I had a flash of personal intuition upon revisiting the subject, as though I had subconsciously continued to develop my understanding in the interim period.

It then occurred to me that 'karma' was nothing more than the fulfillment of a certain universal law -- namely, that a creator, any creator, is compelled to experience in full that which it creates. Nothing more, nothing less.

I believe personally that such a universal law exists, but please understand, this is only my interpretation of my own searching.

-Mark

[etereys]

Also what about children who are to young to have chosen between STO/STS/Undecided? Will they remain in 3rd density?


As far as children.....because they are children they have a certain purity. I am quite certain that all innocent life-forms such as children and animals, will automatically be lifted up into the next level when the time comes.


Hi all.^^ I'd like to offer something to consider along this line. I'm not sure what Ra has said in the material, if anything at all. I'm part of the way through Book III so far, so if there is anything along this subject that I could consider from Books I and II, please don't hesitate to let me know. I'm not so sure that children are necessarily "too young" for that. I look back into some of my earliest memories in this life and I see something different, very frighteningly dark. This was preschool age for me. I can't quite remember these very dark other life memories (psychic influence, whatever they were) before the age of about 4.

I'm not sure if this is considered on topic, so I apologize if it is not.

The memories that I had when I was in preschool were things NO CHILD should be experiencing, in my personal opinion, though I know all happens for a reason and all balances itself out in one way or another and that an entity chooses certain experiences for the incoming life for heretofore unknown reasons, at least until the path is decidedly chosen to remember and use those experiences as intelligent catalyst.

My intent in this post isn't to expound on what I experienced, but to note that those experiences of mine don't seem to go along with the above quotes.

Any ideas are welcome, of course. :)

<3 ;)

[twva]

I'm not so sure that children are necessarily "too young" for that.

The only passage I can remember from the Ra material on the subject seems to agree with you that children are fully responsible for their actions. If I'm reading right, their responsibility is retroactive to the moment of birth:

Questioner: As an entity in this density grows from childhood, he becomes more aware of his responsibilities. Is there an age below which an entity is not responsible for his actions, or is he responsible from the time of his birth?

Ra: I am Ra. An entity incarnating upon the Earth plane becomes conscious of self at a varying point in its time/space progress through the continuum. This may have a median, shall we say, of approximately fifteen of your months. Some entities become conscious of self at a period closer to incarnation, some at a period farther from this event. In all cases responsibility becomes retroactive from that point backward in the continuum so that distortions are to be understood by the entity and dissolved as the entity learns.

Questioner: Then an entity four years old would be totally responsible for any actions that were against or inharmonious with the Law of One. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. It may be noted that it has been arranged by your social complex structures that the newer entities to incarnation are to be provided with guides of a physical mind/body/spirit complex, thus being able to learn quickly what is consonant with the Law of One.

Questioner: Who are these guides?

Ra: I am Ra. These guides are what you call parents, teachers, and friends.

[Keith]

My interpretation of karma from Ra and that I have come to believe is that it's basically an opportunity for learning something in response to your actions. Though I think I have missed something out.

So I would suppose if the killing doesn't make you less than 50% STO, then maybe you will be allowed to choose, when "the time comes", whether to graduate to 4d and and resolve the karma there or continue to stay in 3d.

Keith

[twva]

My interpretation of karma from Ra and that I have come to believe is that it's basically an opportunity for learning something in response to your actions.

I think you're right. If you think about it, karma is really an integral part of free will, which Ra defines as the recognition that the Creator will know Itself.

[Firewalker]

When asked Ra defined Karma in one instance as 'any time in which an entity acts in a consciously unloving manner to another entity.'

In regard to the original question I think killing someone would come into that category. To graduate after killing someone I imagine you would have to fully confess your crime and forgive yourself and all others involved. Meaning after confessing you'd probably end up in prison and the negativity of a prison would make it harder to graduate.

Ra said also that those who were young would naturally align themselves with their chosen polarity and that most of them would have physical teachers. (I.e. aware friends).

In regard to etereys post I would say that the atmosphere and the child cares of the modern day are now far more advanced to what they were even ten years ago now, and that whatever he/she experienced will not be thrust upon modern youngans. Or perhaps you could see to that yourself as part of your path. Go into child care or some sort of social service and make sure it's all OK? An avenue of service if ever I heard one.

[estopatitiana]

Wow, i must have interpreted karma differently i didnt know it was the whole what goes aroud comes around. so when i was working at a pig farm and had to engage in the euthanasia of pigs(before i was "born again")/ first being horrified, then out of love because i wanted to give them the most humane death possible,(before my manager got to them) will i at some point in my present incarnation have to endure this suffering myself? Even though it was out of love? And even if you ask for forgiveness do you still get "punished" for your actions?

[estopatitiana]

ok nevermind my last post, after reading some more and doing a little more research i have a more positive look on karma.

[Magical_Mongoose]

All is forgiven.
However, this doesn't discount the fact we carry with us difficulties from past lives and certain ingrained habits our souls have been accustomed to. In terms of judging a person as having "bad karma", that's another mind trip to set us against one another. Ultimately, people incarnate based upon what catalysts will best correct distortions they've had in previous lives. There's choice at every point and opportunities abound to slowly widdle away to your true essence, with no cruel Creator condemning you in wrathful fury, but rather supporting your journey of self-discovery.
Although this planet is definitely a "hard-knock" place of study to say the least (and bypassing a lot of the horrible terrors and tragedies that have befallen countless people throughout our history), I've read from numerous sources that the spirits who travel and practice here are quite powerful in numerous aspects as they go about their future journeys.
But it all comes down to withdrawing those venomous states of judgment or guilt for not being %100. Come to terms with yourself, accept yourself, accept others, help them do the same and move on...
Begin living as you are now and work from there. There's nothing you can immediately do about the past besides drawing upon what you've learned and using that as a catalyst for what you do, think and say now. And even if you don't perform perfectly with all these insights and ageless wisdoms available to you and I, there is always forgiveness at every stone of the road.
There is always hope when one realizes the power we all have in the present, and always fear when we're looking at the fleeting shadows behind us. I know this may seem an impossible thing to do but leave it behind...let it go.
Try it out. Perceive your worth and the worth of everything, and without guilt or resentment, live in celebration of life.

[soup]

...there is always forgiveness at every stone of the road. ...

Thanks, somehow this writing helps satisfy my need for affirmation; as if i've been carrying too many stones around and its okay to release them that way.


soup

[vithar]

well i 'll make a confession. when i was a kid i and my pals used to pick off birds etc. with pellet guns. stuff like that.
as an adult this stuff came back to haunt me. most likely out of my own guilt... by reading stuff on karma.

it got so bad once i unconsciously provoked this big dude into a fight. he accidentally hit my with a front end loader. this in itself almost killed me. but a few minutes later he smacked me in the head where i ended up with five stitches. i got an mri to be safe.
but i felt that was a payoff. some anyway.

i tried something else to level the debt as well. rather, i tried to apply it to that.

but i'm finding i've simply a pathological guilt. or something. could be no emotional support.

i'm rather fed up with needs. humans are basically a sack of needs.

[MarkM]

Hi, vithar..just a couple of gems from Ra concerning forgiveness..

Questioner: You stated yesterday that forgiveness is the eradicator of karma. I am assuming that balanced forgiveness for the full eradication of karma would require forgiveness not only of other-selves but also the forgiveness of self. Am I correct?

Ra: I am Ra. You are correct. We will briefly expand upon this understanding in order to clarify.

Forgiveness of other-self is forgiveness of self. An understanding of this insists upon full forgiveness upon the conscious level of self and other-self, for they are one. A full forgiveness is thus impossible without the inclusion of self.

Questioner: Thank you. Would you define karma?

Ra: I am Ra. Our understanding of karma is that which may be called inertia. Those actions which are put into motion will continue using the ways of balancing until such time as the controlling or higher principle which you may liken unto your braking or stopping is invoked. This stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. These two concepts are inseparable.

Questioner: Is it possible for you to use as an example our General Patton and tell me the effect that war had on him in his development?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full question of this working. The one of whom you speak, known as George, was one in whom the programming of previous incarnations had created a pattern or inertia which was irresistible in its incarnation in your time/space. This entity was of a strong yellow ray activation with frequent green ray openings and occasional blue ray openings. However, it did not find itself able to break the mold of previous traumatic experiences of a bellicose nature.

This entity polarized somewhat towards the positive in its incarnation due to its singleness of belief in truth and beauty. This entity was quite sensitive. It felt a great honor/duty to the preservation of that which was felt by the entity to be true, beautiful, and in need of defense. This entity perceived itself a gallant figure. It polarized somewhat towards the negative in its lack of understanding the green ray it carried with it, rejecting the forgiveness principle which is implicit in universal love.

Questioner: Am I correct, then, in assuming that discipline of the personality, knowledge of self, and control in strengthening of the will would be what any fifth-density entity would see as those things of importance?

Ra: I am Ra. In actuality these things are of importance in third through early seventh densities. The only correction in nuance that we would make is your use of the word, control. It is paramount that it be understood that it is not desirable or helpful to the growth of the understanding, may we say, of an entity by itself to control thought processes or impulses except where they may result in actions not consonant with the Law of One. Control may seem to be a short-cut to discipline, peace, and illumination. However, this very control potentiates and necessitates the further incarnative experience in order to balance this control or repression of that self which is perfect.

Instead, we appreciate and recommend the use of your second verb in regard to the use of the will. Acceptance of self, forgiveness of self, and the direction of the will; this is the path towards the disciplined personality. Your faculty of will is that which is powerful within you as co-Creator. You cannot ascribe to this faculty too much importance. Thus it must be carefully used and directed in service-to-others for those upon the positively oriented path.

To notice a sense of guilt over past actions may be an indicator that you have learned something valuable; the game is set up so that we do make mistakes, and this is a divinely sanctioned mechanism for our evolution.

Then it's over to you, to engage the forgiveness part of the mechanism. We have full power to forgive ourselves and others; our blockages result in a large measure from holding onto guilt feelings and performing various forms of figurative 'self flagellation'.

Sometimes, one can enjoy a huge, life-lightening cathartic release by just letting go of guilt feelings, and forgiving themselves and all others as one.

Then you say, "Yes, but what about when I..."

Well, that's included, too..;)

-Mark

[vithar]

yes, thanks. inertia...good one.

[snowflower]

Thank you for that post Mark.

[Spiral of Light]

I have a question regarding Karma: Specifically, how does it apply to wanderers?

The information in the Law of One reference material states:

“Category: Wanderers 70.15

Questioner: I think that to clear up this point I will ask a few questions that are related that will possibly help me to understand this better because I am really confused about this and I think it is a very important point in understanding the creation and the Creator in general, you might say. If a Wanderer of fourth, fifth, or sixth-density dies from this third-density state in which we presently find ourselves, does he then find himself in the third-density time/space after death?

Ra: I am Ra. This will depend upon the plan which has been approved by the Council of Nine. Some Wanderers offer themselves for but one incarnation while others offer themselves for varying lengths of your time up to and including the last two cycles of 25,000 years. If the agreed-upon mission is completed the Wanderer’s mind/body/spirit complex will go to the home vibration.”


I have a personal interest in this question since it has been suggested to me that I am a wanderer. While that possibility certainly would explain some of the dilemmas I’ve experienced, I feel strongly that I have also been dealing with karmic debt in many of the important relationships of this lifetime.

After reading the quote above from the Law of One, I came to the conclusion that the law of karma must apply to any wanderer who might have offered him/herself for more than one incarnation since a lifetime of dealing with catalysts sets each of us up for karmic debt of some kind. Therefore, subsequent lifetimes would allow opportunities for repayment of past debts and possibilities of creating more debt.

I believe that elsewhere in LoO, Ra refers to the risk that wanderers face when offering themselves for service here in 3rd density since they are allowing themselves to be removed from their higher density to serve here without the ability to remember where they came from. Once involved with
3rd density catalysts, there is a propensity to be swept up in the karmic cycle here with the possibility of losing the opportunity to return to their original higher density. Although the point is made above that the wanderer returns home to the higher density "if the agreed-upon mission is completed"...

Sheeesh, I'm still not absolutely sure what the 'mission' is but I'm hoping that it's sharing the love and the light and praying that I haven't screwed up my karmic debt too much. In moments of anxiety, I sure wish I had awakened a lot sooner and paid a lot more attention to the more important things. But I've also been assured that it's never too late...wherever we are in the grand scheme of things...this moment is the right one to finally understand and to move forward.

Can anyone here with Law of One insight/knowledge shed more light on this topic? I would really appreciate gaining a clearer understanding.....

Sharing the Love and the Light,
Nancy

[soup]

...as if i've been carrying too many stones around and its okay to release them ...

Yea, so last week while I was doing the forgiveness work, I also did the gallbladder cleanse - an apple juice fast followed by an olive oile and lemon juice cocktail.

So that got me wondering about the idea of preprogrammed catalyst - as if a congested gallbladder may be a sort of "yellow ray" blockage that can coincide with a spiritual analog - forgiveness congestion.

Possibly there's some relation to the preponderance of North America's Christianity (with its message of forgiveness) and North America's preponderance of Gall Bladder surgery.

This may relate to Karma: as with diet, we should take care in what/how we eat.


soup

[twva]

I have a question regarding Karma: Specifically, how does it apply to wanderers?

<snip>

Can anyone here with Law of One insight/knowledge shed more light on this topic? I would really appreciate gaining a clearer understanding.....


Hi Nancy,

It seems like you have a remarkably clear understanding.

I have wrestled with this issue, too, and my current position/understanding/belief is faith that, as Ra says, "each will receive the opportunity that each needs." If we act and react with love in each moment, or at least in as many moments as we can manage; if we can remember to say periodically "Infinite Creator, here am I. Use me as you see fit" I'm pretty sure that we will clear any karmic debts we may have incurred in this and other lifetimes and be able to move on to our home densities (or to fourth density if we're not wanderers).

And even if that's not enough, I take comfort from the fact Ra assures us that the journey ends well and we all arrive, in the end, back at the Creator (which of course we never left).

Love and light,
Tobey

[Spiral of Light]

Hi Nancy,

I have wrestled with this issue, too, and my current position/understanding/belief is faith that, as Ra says, "each will receive the opportunity that each needs." If we act and react with love in each moment, or at least in as many moments as we can manage; if we can remember to say periodically "Infinite Creator, here am I. Use me as you see fit" I'm pretty sure that we will clear any karmic debts we may have incurred in this and other lifetimes and be able to move on to our home densities (or to fourth density if we're not wanderers).



Thank you for that, Tobey. Those are very comforting and calming reminders.

Love and Light,
Nancy

[Val Zee]

One thing that seemed to help me understand the matter of "souls" was when I realized that we are not bodies that have souls but souls that take up bodies. Therefore the children may have a young body but a very old soul. It would be the development of the soul that determine their placement in 3D or 4D or perhaps even further up the scale. The age of the body doesn't seem to determine much of anything. Of course that is just my thoughts on this subject.

[soup]

...The age of the body doesn't seem to determine much of anything. Of course that is just my thoughts on this subject....

I think that children offer the opportunity to parents to polarize Service To Others, in ways they may not have opportunity for otherwise. Maybe the elderly offer similar opportunity - such opportunity as a service in some way.
Here the age of the body may determine the extent of such offerings.

There's also the astrological connection - that age relates to natal chart which can lead one to a study of archetypes somehow, that there seems some geometrical patterns which may offer opportunities for others to help other selves by the vehicle of such bodies of wisdom.


soup

[soup]

...as if i've been carrying too many stones around and its okay to release them ...


I think that is part of what Mikao Usui did in (re)discovering Reiki - he dropped a stone a day for 21 days, or so the tale goes. Maybe this is an example of creating a vacuum - that if we metaphorically gave up "a stone a day" for 21 days then Reiki may better flow into our lives somehow.


soup

[soup]

my favorite stone shape is the "heart" shape, have given dozens of them away - also have a "Reiki Fountain" in my room made in part with heart shaped stones...and so I wonder if the stones that Mikao Usui dropped were in chance, heart shaped stones...i like to think so.

soup

[Amy]

I have been pondering the notion of Karma lately. I can feel the circular effects of it more than I remember when I was younger. I feel that if I put my whole self/efforts into something, than, not only will it work out to a more harmonious and vibrant degree, but also, people respond to it better.

[Firewalker]

I tend to think the reason we are feeling it more now is the so called- rise in density. Like we can feel metaphysical concepts as something more pressurised.