Forgiveness is But a Stepping Stone to Gratitude

[Penny L]

throughout my own experiences, i've been constantly reminded from within myself that "to forgive" means that i haven't fully arrived yet. only when appreciation and gratitude, combined with celebration for all parts and roles played in a moment, has the fullness of the gift arrived for me.

i was born in '64, and grew up on a farm with a large family. my family watched for ufos all the time--one watches the skies quite a bit when you have crops dependent upon the weather. my dad was gone a great deal trying to better the farmer's plight by by-passing the red tape of a shadow gov't. at nineteen, he'd taken off on a road trip around the usa and was struck by all the hunger in our own country, and it became his mission to try to fix that. so i had a regular diet of illuminati/world bank stories throughout my life. dad constantly reminded us to question everything in the news and in the media--expand out of the box.

as a young adult i chose to delve into it deeper to gain a clearer understanding of it and to do my part. i checked into meetings called freeman education seminars where a plethora of patriotic and alternative material was shared. but i realized that sometimes those who were "fighting the system" were just as frightening (out of their fear) as those they were fighting against. because of that, i chose to not be a part of an organization and to seek my own answers from within.

at the time i was terrified of the shadow activities and my own consciousness and experiences reflected that. i kept being reminded of jesus's statement to "love your enemies," and i knew that didn't mean pasting a plastic smile on my face and telling them i loved them. i sensed i had to have a clarity that dispersed all my fears surrounding them in order to actually do that.

i began to look for the gift to me in all my moments--especially the darkest ones--and, danged, if there wasn't always one or two there for me! initially, i may not have seen it in that particular moment, but i knew that it would eventually arrive--and it always did.

my point--without the dark, we would not experience our light and all the dimensions of love. this is the gifted experience of polarity and relativity evolving to unity. we're all playing roles for one another, as i see it--i've played some dark ones myself--and the best way to diffuse the most evil aspects is to see how they've personally helped me remember who i truly am and what i'm about. darkness is so that light might shine and be noticed.

i've discovered there truly are no enemies to fight...

much love to our beloved united states of america (a tremendous accomplishment) and our world and galactic neighbors...

happy 4th!

with love and appreciation,
penny l

[MarkM]

nice post, penny! kudos to your father for seeing outside the box and backing that up with action!

i've had occasion in my life recently to help a loved one with the issue of self forgiveness, and it has occurred to me that there is more to forgiveness than a mere acceptance of an issue. catalyst can be a hard pill to swallow, but every experience, however unpleasant, is stage-managed, if you will, from backstage, for the purpose of growth and evolution.

i cringe inwardly at the remembrance of my own stupid faux pas', but i know that they have served to accelerate my growth and are indespensible as such. i have hurt, used and abused and been inconsiderate of others in my life, and this has caused me and them much anguish, but in the examining of what it is within me that allows for this, i have encountered aspects of myself that have needed attention. but for these experiences i would be a lesser evolved person today.

this is where you learn to not only accept these issues, but to appreciate them and be thankful for them and know that they are the building blocks of who you are.

as others trespass against us, you can be thankful that you are chosen to offer a special service to others, as this offers other selves the chance to learn needed life lessons that they may well be unable to learn otherwise. that's how it's supposed to be here in this most difficult density of learning the ways of love.

so my advice to all is to forgive yourself of everything, and i mean everything! you not only have the right to do so but an obligation to yourself.
yes, you can! yes you should. this unconditional love of the self is a necessary prerequisite to unconditional love of others, and of all as one. there is no sin, and no judgement other than what you impose upon yourself. so judge yourself to be free of your own transgressions, and you shall be.

-mark

[DAYDREAMS@onelink.ca]

thank you both...this was a beautiful read. i was born in 53 making me old enough to be your mother penny...which i mention only because i feel a sense of parental joy to hear you speak of your dad teaching you to think for yourself.

i've found that the spirit of forgiveness is a way to step into a time warp. once i've well and truly forgiven someone, like when i thought my dad was a gutless wonder, i discovered that there had never been anything to forgive. i was filled with an exquisite understanding of where he was coming from and how much he loved me. it was as if the former state of unforgiveness had never been, like the past had been erased.

i could feel his heart and soul leap for joy without knowing why....despite the fact that he lives on the other side of the country...maybe because of. i experienced several release and rejoining spirit dances with my dad before he changed form. after he changed form, particularly right after, i found myself overjoyed with the new freedom dad had to communicate with ( his beliefs had stood in the way) and devasted that he was physically gone before we could communicate in such a way. the paradox of spirit being on a 3d ride...

the only person who knows how to love you well and truly is you...so give er!

[Penny L]

it's been a joy to read both of your replies and posts! you've been reflecting back to me my own highest thoughts and celebrations of being here now. it may appear pretty choatic "out there"--which i experience within myself sometimes, too, but i have such a sense of finally getting into consciously being aware (awake) that i'm both excited and honored to be here for this amazing transformation/metamorphosis on/with our beloved earth.

the key seems to be to keep it simple...love all of oneself first and the rest will follow.

with much appreciation,
penny

[imobeast]

hey everybody - I'm feeling oddly compelled to posit a question - is it too soon to start thinking about forgiving the Illuminati? There are chess-like implications of seeking too much justice/too little justice. I'm interested in hearing what anyone thinks about this. I'm very much biased towards our forgiving these people - for the sheer logistics of karma being reduced that way. Obviously, though, some form of justice (do I really just mean revenge?) is going to be demanded by the masses. What would constitute a soundly just response for the actions carried out by these people?
I'll remain as much of a fly on the wall as I can.
Would really love to hear from anyone.


Peace be with you,


IMObeast

[GrumpyBear]

I don't think it's ever too early to forgive - I have personally seen Karma at work, and have learned to have faith that everything will balance out the way it's supposed to.

I do agree some sort of debt must be repaid to society by the people responsible, but I'm not in the camp that believes it's my responsibility to 'dish out' a punishment and call it Karma. Those in the Illuminati (and others like it) who wish to clean their Karmic slate will do so (maybe in the form of restitution, community service, etc.) Those people will need our help and support. Those on the other side of the coin who refuse to even admit any wrongdoing...I forgive you, and I hope for your sake your Karmic cost will not be too severe.

[Apophis]

Forgiveness includes allowing another to be in full control of there own being.

I choose to alow personal truth dictate my actions, and expect others to do so as well.

Therefore, if the individual-illumniti were simply restricted acess to the wepons they use, I could forgive them, and believe their personal truth to be their Karma.

[]EON[]

As said by David and Larry " Forgiveness stops the wheel of Karma".
Karma dosen't work alone, There are four paths!
J'nana, Bh'ak'ti, Kar'ma & Ra'ja.

J'nana Yoga: is the path of knowledge, wisdom, introspection and contemplation.
It involves deep exploration of the nature our being by systematically exploring and setting aside false identities.
While Jnana Yoga deals with knowledge, wisdom, introspection and contemplation,
everybody has a mind and at some point will need to examine it, wherein quiet reflection naturally comes.

Bh'ak'ti Yoga: is the path of devotion, emotion, love, compassion, and service to God and others.
All actions are done in the context of remembering the Divine.
All people will experience emotions such as love, compassion, and devotion at points along the journey,
regardless of which of the four paths of Yoga is predominant.

Kar'ma Yoga: is the path of action, service to others, mindfulness, and remembering the levels of our being
while fulfilling our actions or karma in the world.
Nobody can live in a body and the world without doing actions.
Even a renunciate living in a Himalayan cave has to do some form of actions, and thus, some degree of Karma Yoga is essential.

Ra'ja Yoga: is a comprehensive method that emphasizes meditation, while encompassing the whole of Yoga.
It directly deals with the encountering and transcending thoughts of the mind.
Everybody will become still and quite from sadhana or spiritual practices, will naturally encounter and deal with attractions and aversion,
and will meditate, thus touching on Raja Yoga.

While it is definitely true that we each have predispositions towards one or another of the four paths of Yoga, we cannot really avoid or abandon the others.

I'v seen the "Illuminati" as many different aspects of the "world" outside Thyself. They have set the world up to reach this point in Time.
J'nana path of knowledge, thanks to the internet, and light minds, like David's, bringing light to the unknown.
Without stigma, to Illuminate, is bring light to the darkness. Without judgment, the action, (karma) in any from, is to understand the Known, and receive wisdom from "intro"spection and contemplation.
The J'nana comes first, it is the use of the wise mind with imagination.
Then Bh'ak'ti the opening of the heart.
Then Kar'ma, Giving action, Love, Hate, and the spectrum in between.
This is unavoidable and leads to Ra'Ja, Becoming King, Master and Lord, of Thy Mind, Body, Spirit (imagination) complex.

The mason's, The builders, made the world firm, sure it up, they have finished their work, Building the I'magi,nation.
Now it is time for the worker to put down the tool, of mind, and receive what is everyone's birth right.

[Vanya]

If we leave out the illusion that we are separate - so that there is only one of us here - then the answer becomes sort of obvious.

When you wake up after having a nightmare, you don't really punish yourself for it. At least I don't. Taking a deep breath and calming down is usually the best medicine in my experience.
:-)

If we are all capable of letting go and give each other space, things are much more likely to fall into a better place easier and faster than if we put a lot of resistance into it.
We all chose to come here to Earth. We all knew we'd be enslaved here. And still we volunteered to come here. As we remember who we truely are, as we allow our light-source to fill us with our own personal power, none of those games and dramas will be important any more. We just stop feeding them, we stop making them matter. And so we liberate ourselves so that we can focus on pain free growth, for our selves and for each other, personally and collectively.

The Illuminati dramas will become like folklore of the past, stories we'll tell each other for the goose-bumps because it's human to enjoy a ghost story now and then. Besides that it won't matter. The truth, which is that only love and peace are for real, will set us free.

The personal karma of the poor souls (or bastards) who entangled themselves in that spider's web of darkness - that's for them to complete. However, they too are us. And the longer they are mired in there, the longer we as a Us, the collective I, is stuck as well. So to help ourselves really get on with it, releasing them is the best thing.

-And giving them a thank you for playing the bad-guys in our giant soul-growth project.

We have lived the fairy tales. We have participated in the great drama of "Good vs Evil", "Light vs Dark". It has been a thrilling adventure. And those who went deep down into the darkness and created the worst monsters - also created the heroes. Without the monsters - how could the heroes step forth? Without the German invasion during WW2 my grandfather would never have known the extent of his courage and stamina - which turned out to be immense. (I'm sure he doesn't see it the way I do, but then he's an extreme Atheist. Anyways...(well, the guy was once a member/Judge of the Inquisition and had me killed as a witch. Nasty. But I can cope with that now))

But we are about to wake up from the dreams of monsters and dragon slaying. Dawn is approaching. The masks are about to be thrown. And we will all see each other for the godselves we are.
Even the necromancers who created the monsters will lose their masks. And they might be really tired and exhausted from what they have done when they wake up. And they might be very sorry for all the misery they caused in the game.

I've seen many of my previous lives of being executed and killed for various reasons. I have seen in many lives what darkness can do. I remember forgetting about Love; Total amnesia as to what goodness, charity, pity and human warmth could mean.

But here, on the other side, I am stronger. I now know that I am resilient and brave, and that I can find that divine spark within me, even when the darkness is complete around me. I chose to go to Earth so that I could see my light even when I was trapped in the void. And I have. My lives in the dark and the return to light has been a grand adventure. And for that, I would actually like to thank my adversaries. Thank them for giving me just that opportunity. It has been an amazing and unique soul experience.

I do not hesitate in forgiving the Illuminati. They've been ars*h*les (to put it mildly), but they've taught me so much about my own light that I could never have learned anywhere else. And for that I thank them. And I'll see what I can do to help them forgive themselves - which is probably the greatest challenge here, as the Sun rises...

[NICE]

Hi Guy's ..

Where we are at within ourselves as individuals and as part of a collective is reflected within our universal environment (here and now) .

Who or what exists whether it be the Illuminati or the bogey man is part of the reflection ..

The earth plane influences that are both positive and negative are upon us for use of a better word as a result of our karmic playground ..

One can forgive or not forgive elements that are influential within our lives . One can embrace, resist, rise above anything due to one's awareness of self ...

If the Illuminati causes a particular reaction to an individual then evaluate what reaction that is ..

Perhaps one could benefit by focusing on one's self and the power that is within ourselves rather than feeding the power that is of those that yank our chains ..


x dazzle x

[Bekhat]

There is no forgiveness, for 'illuminati' or any other. Forgiveness means living in the past. We live in the Now. It is not an issue. The vibration has changed, living in the past can no longer be supported by our reality. It no longer has any hold on us. This is a moot worry. OBE.

Love
Light
Life
Bekhat

[Orsbore]

I can't think of anything anyone has done to me that requires forgiveness. I wonder, will they forgive me?

[Que]

To "forgive" doesn't mean to defend or condone, or even to stand in the way of karma by pleading that others don't exact "revenge." Everybody has their karma, even revenge seekers. It is wise, in my opinion, that people are kindly reminded that they have the power to enlighten the darkness that flows in the universe by "forgiving," but they certainly aren't OBLIGED to, nor can their refusal to forgive affect our karma, unless we allow it.

Remember, one of the great "forgivers" that we are told about, Joshua Ben Adam, had a penchant for not even seeing the transgressions of most he ran into. He knew most were ignorant of their motives. He did not have this same charity for money-changers and power-broking priests. We may make a step higher up enlightenment if we can allow it to be

[lovetaniwha]

I think all has been said that need be here and I just want to say thank you and much love to the whole of us! :)

[TelecasterLPGTop]

Of course we must forgive them otherwise how can we ourselves we free. That doesn't mean we must trust them or have anything to do with them, however the day will come when they are redeemed by their own actions, when they move across to the side of good but I wouldn't sit around holding my breath waiting for it to occur.

[blitteaur]

They must ask for clemency from Source. Then we can forgive them. After all, their mission was to teach us how duality works and to make us strive for Love and Light.

[MarkM]

Man, I wonder - if you forgive everything, and really... it may be that no one has to do anything first in order to be forgiven.

What seems a given is that everything happening here has a divine role to play, equal in it's ultimate importance and potential for teaching love, and beyond definition.. not to judge, or to pick sides, Marka$$

[joetatz44]

forgive them?? we don't have the power to forgive them. they are dark evil souls. they must be removed completely from existence, however that can be accomplished. we are not even close to understanding just how these entities control our planet. something controls them. i don't wish to think about them enough to forgive them. ok, your forgiven. now run along and be good little boys and girls. these ****s have kept the truth from us, and are doing their best to exterminate us. you forgive them, not i.

[joetatz44]

I can't think of anything anyone has done to me that requires forgiveness. I wonder, will they forgive me?

really, you can't remember being lied to your entire life?

[Apophis]

It's one thing to simply become illuminated to the "secrets of the ages" and another to use those secrets for a self serving benifit.

I believe we are talking about forgiving those who missuse the information they find, right? It's not really a bad thing to be illuminated. . . It's all about what you do with it once you've found it.

Maybe the term "illuminiti" carries an us vs them connotation with it. If so, it's truly not forgiving someone for missusing a tool, it's forgiving what they did while missusing it.

Most guys have used a wrench as a hammer at least once n there lives. Now using a wrench as a hammer on someones finger. . . That takes some serious forgiveness.

[MarkM]

I would respect anyone's attitudes or perspectives on this issue, or on any other issue for that matter!

This being primarily a forum dedicated to positive spirituality, I'll share something of my take on this issue from my own spiritual perspective, not intended to be correct...

We are all here on Earth to learn love.

Aside from the glories of diverse experiencing, the entirety of human experience here is for us to overcome duality and notions of relative worth.

I feel that nothing that has ever happened here is anything but perfectly in accordance with divine plan. All of us are here learning the lessons of love - and implicit within this trial and error learning process are the results which stem from less-than-loving behaviours. What seem to be truly evil and horrible persons, conditions and occurrances are merely the very natural results of operating at crosscurrents with the loving flow of the universe. All such conditions are illusary and temporary and only persist so long as there is the potential for love to result.

The so-called evil in the world is nothing more than what manifests as a result of giving away our own responsibility for each other as a single being, experiencing life as only apparent individual entities.

The creator is fully manifest within every seeming individual, and every individual represents not just an aspect of the creator, but the entirety of the creator having a human experience. Even the most heinous and diabolical amongst us exists as another expression of myself and the creator, for in reality the illusion of many individuals is just that - an illusion.

While we may justifiably decry the evils and suffering in the world, and move to disarm (and neutralize the actions of) those who would do us harm, we might yet offer our gratitude for their role in providing the catalyst necessary for increased positive polarization in this world. To hate, send ill-will, condemn and seek to destroy individuals may be tantamount to wishing the same for ourselves.

I feel that every event and condition such as our wars and so on is equally necessary to human evolution and existence, simply because it is what we have created through omission or otherwise. Did we have to have financial tryanny? No, but we mandated it through our collective choices... and now it is what we need to kick us into wakefulness - it is divinely arranged for the optimum potential for evolution.

I don't believe that any entity deserves less than total unconditional love, appreciation, approval and forgiveness. Each contains the all, and will - no matter how far off course one sails, will inevitably uncover and wield their intrinsic loving divinity. The distorted personality of one lifetime is never the measure of any entity. Mark

[califorty1]

Lots of positive thoughts put into this thread, from a future perspective of what this 3D, holographic, whatever life may become. How about the here and now... how about this?

Should we forgive George Bush (Sr. and Jr.), or pretty much any senior Bush adm. official? Dick Cheney? Pick a Rockefellor or Rothschild or Warburg, or European royal, etc? The list of lifelong pedophilic, child sacrificing, blood guzzling, murderous psychopaths is a mile long. And just what do you think these creatures would do with their newly minted forgiveness? Could they be rehabilitated to function as even remotely normal members in society? Perhaps some community service to work off their crimes? Maybe you could drop your kids and dogs off with them while you're at work.

These creatures are directly responsible for, I would wager, nearly all of the suffering experienced by man and animal alike for time immemorial. They are able and willing to summon dark forces we cannot even understand to further their evil efforts upon us. We are less than cattle to them, no good for anything but to harvest the pain and fear they have fostered among us as we are slowly, or quickly, tortured to death, whatever best suits their agenda. We don't even know who or what we are anymore, for the manipulation of us. Ever try to explain even the slightest concept of truth to an unwilling individual, still deep asleep with their noggins deeply buried in the sand?

Every one of us has nanobots directly attached to the neurons in our brains...ever hear a light morse code-like clicking in your ear, usually later at night? Want proof? Swish some red wine in your mouth for a while and spit into a light colored sink, repeat over and over. See those clumps? What could that be? Nanofibers used to deliver the bots, via our old friend chemtrails... and you just thought they were for heavy metal poisoning and Haarp/Project Bluebeam reflectivity. Those fibers are apparently the main culprits of skin disorders in Morgellons sufferers. Some people get too much or have a body chemistry that just rejects them and tries to force them out through the skin, but we are all riddled with them.

School shootings, Norwegian mass murders, Bluejet pilots and attendants losing it... and I thought remote controlled planes were fun, but the khazar vampires figured out how to remote control people. Who gets switched on next? With the constant, nefarious bombardments all around us in this horrid matrix we are forced to exist in, who even knows what is real. Sometimes it seems that every external thing is a lie or a part to one. Truth is so skillfully interwoven with the lies that even the most intelligent and discerning among us will fall short of separating the two.

I could, of course, go on to further document the sheer horror of the life we have in which we have been so fortunate to participate, but that's not the mission here and I truly don't want to promote negativity. I've learned what I can of the truth of this life in order to face it and deal with it, not be afraid of it; I would encourage everyone to do the same.

The truth is that there is no helping the illuminati, not those that have been willing to serve the order, any more than you can help a rabid dog. I'd say that forgiveness is fine. If I had children, I would forgive them their transgressions as well, then give them an immediate spanking (bottom, never face) not in anger but in love. So we can forgive the illuminati....
however, try them in a fair court of common law, which they have never allowed for us, then line them up at the back of the courthouse and Guillotine their filthy, diseased heads right into one of the millions of black plastic FEMA coffins they made for us. Not for retribution, or revenge, for the sum total of all their executions could never repay those debts. There are consequences in this world, and a fair accounting of those must be justly served upon them.

[MarkM]

Truth is so skillfully interwoven with the lies that even the most intelligent and discerning among us will fall short of separating the two.

You see sheer horror, that may be your own construct. My life sees and feels beauty and love, and I have no problem with energetically and vibrationally involving all of my faculties with not separating, but welcoming all under my umbrella - without having to judge relative merit or worth.

Your focus becomes your reality, and may even be defined - heaven or hell, upon your willingness to let negative circumstance into your life, or to revel and gambol free as a lamb in a sunny glade. I see you read the article on the red wine and the fibres... one may choose to be subject to this type of thing, or one may choose to continue to experience life joyfully as a free person.

This is a frequency issue, and many people I know are totally free from the negative influence of these things, as they have come to know that fear and control is ever a voluntary thing. It's your choice, as you have the innate ability to be immune to any and all negative suggestion and influence. No one here needs to be under any degree of unwanted influence. This is the biggest thing, and that which some would keep from us at all cost.

Freedom is an active choice, and fear interferes with that, sometimes. The fear is personal, and fomented big time by some others. Do what you love, I offer, and only the illusion of fear will hold you back. Otherwise, the negs have no ability to harm you, by the laws they themselves are bound by. Mark

[MarkM]

Remember, they are us, and they personify certain aspects of our beingness as a human race. If you have a vampire menacing you, it's only because you created it, or let it be through some form of irresponsibility. Better perhaps to strive to reconcile the parts of us which have become rogue through not having owned all aspects of ourselves, as opposed to imagining an 'exterior' bogeyman which needs to be killed... kill the bogeyman and you have died to some part of yourself. Blame an exterior invader and you have not taken up your own culpability. Markish

[Apophis]

I forgive you.
I forgive the fear that you have ingested.
I forgive the pain you feel.
I forgive your rejection.

I forgive the spiteful lashing you have placed here.

I forgive you.

The ones you are placing your fear and hatred on, place their fear and hatred on you. Did you know that? It's just like a tennis game, the fear gets lobbed back and fourth until one of the two misses and gets the bulk of it.

When we forgive them for frightening us, it' like hanging up the racket and saying we don't want to play any more.

There will always be people who are willing to play with fear, and you can play them any time you wish. But I can tell you serving love and kindness at one another is far more rewarding than fear.

This forum doesn't play with fear, we play with love. So if you're willing to serve up some of that for us we would be more than willing to serve it back. As for this fear buisiness, it doesn't fly on this court.

[Detlef]

Forgiveness ultimately defines where we are as a spiritual being, and might or might not affect the one we forgive. Even so what ever we do effects everyone on some level, but this is for an other discussion.
In my understanding, if you totally forgive yourself, you can not but forgive everyone else.
Start with yourself is my suggestion
Hallelujah

[Orsbore]

really, you can't remember being lied to your entire life?

Sure, I've been lied to. I've been robbed, too. But, I'm fine - I've got more than I need. Why would I not forgive anyone?

[Vanya]

Here in Norway we're currently going through a collective process via a quite horrible court case.
I was not involved in this personally, though we heard the bomb go off, some 5 km away.

-Man have I been proud to be Norwegian, when I've seen how we have reacted!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17852176

-I was there yesterday, singing along with 40 000 other people. It was amazing! (It was a rather spontaneous thing to go to for me and two other collegues and our boss)

My parents participated in their town, and people all over the country, either at home or at work or at school
Thousands took part in this, with the same intent - we support the victims and their families, and we support the society we live in.
We support the values this man hates.

Here's the original song in English:

Rainbow race, by Peter Seeger


One blue sky above us, one ocean lapping all our shore
One earth so green and round, who could ask for more?
And because I love you I'll give it one more try
To show my rainbow race, it's too soon to die

Some folks want to be like an ostrich
Bury their heads in the sand
Some hope that plastic dreams
Can unclench all those greedy hands

Some hope to take the easy way
Poisons, bombs, they think we need 'em
Don't you know you can't kill all the unbelievers?
There's no shortcut to freedom

One blue sky above us, one ocean lapping all our shore
One earth so green and round, who could ask for more?
And because I love you I'll give it one more try
To show my rainbow race, it's too soon to die

Go tell, go tell all the little children
Tell all the mothers and fathers too
Now's our last chance to learn to share
What's been given to me and you

One blue sky above us, one ocean lapping all our shore
One earth so green and round, who could ask for more?
And because I love you I'll give it one more try
To show my rainbow race, it's too soon to die

One blue sky above us, one ocean lapping all our shore
One earth so green and round, who could ask for more?

[cspanwonk]

It is often very hard to forgive but if we don't we only injure ourselfs as the anger stays there festering though we don't consciously realize it. I went through cancer 12 years ago and did a lot of healing work. I wanted it so much as I knew it was the key to becoming whole. I eventually did get healed. I was being worked on by someone using healing touch and went into a convulsion and heat came from my heart almost knocking the healer off her feet. It has transformed my life.

[thinker2]

I think it depends on what you mean by “forgive”:

If you are referring to the act of forgiveness that releases ones self from the feeling and thoughts that keep ones self locked in a karmic loop. Then certainly we need to forgive.

If on he other hand you are referring to an act of releasing malicious perpetrators to a degree of freedom that would allow them to repeat or continue their ruthless mission. This would not only be foolish but masochistic.

fin

[southernsmiley]

Mark, I agree with your comment totally:

It is very hard for me to express my feelings in words, but you hit the nail on the head so to speak...lol
at this time in my Life I am trying my best to fill my heart full of Love for everyone and everything even though this is a hard deed to do on a day to day in basics ....I feel as though it is something that each of us must do...it is what we are suppose to do...just my thoughts....
Jan aka southernsmiley

[MarkM]

Hey, y'all!!

In regard to those who hurt us and and cause us pain, and even those who have ruled for eons... I offer the thought that every imaginable soul or life form - even as we perceive injustice and diabolical intent through eyes bound by temporal constraints - is perfectly full of the divine, serving by choice and Mandate to fulfill a unique role; and only can serve and promote life.

There is, IMO, no manifestation of being which is not ordained and blessed by the creator, and which shall not return thence. I think it's impossible to have some of us cut off and condemned.

No life form which is less than you or less beloved...

Maybe, no imaginable demon or condition is less than a representation of the fullness of the creator's chosen beingness, in order for impetus towards the seeking of love.

For those who are concerned with issues of negative influence upon Mankind, perhaps consider the idea of a perfect plan which will in time see us all having realized that every role being played is part of an utterly divine storyline, ending with us all living happily ever after.

This is not to suggest that we aren't well advised to strive to help each other to illuminate the darker recesses of life here, or to suspect we needn't feel that we have much work in regard to defeating tyranny; within the parameters of the game --- we do.

Tyranny may well be a function of our own 'provinciality', or failing to have less than unconditional love for all of life.

Perhaps nothing in life is other than ourselves manifesting other roles, lessons being learned. Mark

[MarkM]

Perhaps coming to have a better world is dependent upon more of us finally coming to grasp that we are all already perfect eternal souls having a temporary learning experience.

Perhaps we are blessed with having come to a place where we have infinite mystery and discovery, yet are each granted infinite free will in which to make our missteps and gradually learn to have unconditional love for all of life, barring nothing.

Perhaps the universe has infinite patience with us as we cycle around again and again until we mature and move on to higher expressions of the divine.

Perhaps our less than ideal conditions are nothing more than our own self distorted imaginings of perfect divine plan.

Perhaps no outer negative influence, no inherent evil; only life coming to learn first hand through trial and error how to ‘align with the divine’ in a schoolroom which knows no permanency or lasting effect other than love gleaned.

Perhaps there is only one life, one love… only one of us here, enjoying myriad expressions of life.

I sometimes wonder if every bit of life won’t eventually come up through this, moving towards being co-creators of universal love, with every single life’s journey being equally valid, and with no one ever left behind. Perhaps. Mark

[JohnEAngel]

from my position, there is no need to forgive anyone. is that not a form of judgment? to be concerned with anything that 'they' may have done as contradictory to our right to exist freely? an expansive awareness of our reality is essential to our development but it is essential that we must also know about that which is actual. how we consider and act upon our relationship to the actions of others is a part of our position/agreement to this world experience. just simply be is how i choose to express myself. i live in the now and in the future and accept what may be considered the errors of others but i choose to not let it confound me.

[Xion]

Do we forgive or condemn our fingers for getting a papercut, or forgive or condemn our legs for tripping on ourselves?

The only thing we have to forgive is the original "sin" of the illusion of separation from Source. Our continuing existence is that ongoing attempt to remain separate and an individual.

Read "A course in miracles," or even the somewhat dumbed down version, "Disappearance of the Universe" by Gary Renard. It'll set anyone on the right road.

[EcyaC]

from my position, there is no need to forgive anyone. is that not a form of judgment?...

Let us not forget the comforting possibility that *THE REAL ILLUMINATI* could be the good guys; Google it.

Another comforting possibility: there could never be anyone, or anything, to forgive.

Has anyone ever been around one of those types of people that feel compelled to say they're sorry for the littlest things? They'll accidentally bump into you or something then immediately freak-out and say, "I'm so sorry!"...When people do this to me I never feel compelled to reply with, "It's okay. I forgive you." I always find myself saying something more like, ">:| WHY ARE YOU SORRY?!? First of all, you didn't do it on purpose did you? Second of all, even if you did it on purpose...I wouldn't care...In fact, I liked it!"

Try out not letting yourself feel sorry about things; you won't be sorry.

[billybobbutterball]

"Forgiving"? Somewhere along the line I was made to understand that forgiving is a side
issue--as speculated, a vital stepping stone... It may well be that the main blessedness is the ability to FORGET whatever transgressions, originating from others or myself.

Come to think about it, I forget right and left...but not the right stuff, i.e., the wrong stuff I need to get rid of.

best, billybob, the butterball one

[11wanderer11]

[QUOTE=Perhaps coming to have a better world is dependent upon more of us finally coming to grasp that we are all already perfect eternal souls having a temporary learning experience.

Perhaps we are blessed with having come to a place where we have infinite mystery and discovery, yet are each granted infinite free will in which to make our missteps and gradually learn to have unconditional love for all of life, barring nothing.

Perhaps the universe has infinite patience with us as we cycle around again and again until we mature and move on to higher expressions of the divine.[/QUOTE]
I really don't understand how if we're fundamentally perfect by nature, then why do we paradoxically pretend to be learning & evolving/devolving, ascending/descending? I mean it really is all just a big pointless game of experience just for the heck of it then right? It doesn't seem boredom would ever enter into the equation because the state of perfection is without any issues. You wrote of infinite patience but yet the highly regarded dolores cannon books & other near death experiences or whatever talk about us as individual sparks of light being called for duty so to speak to break away from the source & manifest into this earth realm so that it can be 'saved' basically. It's just one thing that's always bothered me when I think about a spiritual evolution or ascension like the law of one speaks of. Ultimately you go back to the source & then come out if you want right & then fundamentally makes existence meaningless doesn't it? People say it's for learning & experience, but couldn't we just do that by reviewing the akashic records or like a mind download in the matrix type virtual reality situation? Aliens & extra-dimensional entities are supposedly watching this planet closely in anticipation for something unique or wonderous...seems to me not that much greater than us humans watching drama on TV & movies...one big superficial distraction.

[11wanderer11]

I really don't understand how if we're fundamentally perfect by nature, then why do we paradoxically pretend to be learning & evolving/devolving, ascending/descending? I mean it really is all just a big pointless game of experience just for the heck of it then right? It doesn't seem boredom would ever enter into the equation because the state of perfection is without any issues. You wrote of infinite patience but yet the highly regarded dolores cannon books & other near death experiences or whatever talk about us as individual sparks of light being called for duty so to speak to break away from the source & manifest into this earth realm so that it can be 'saved' basically. It's just one thing that's always bothered me when I think about a spiritual evolution or ascension like the law of one speaks of. Ultimately you go back to the source & then come out if you want right & that fundamentally makes existence meaningless doesn't it? People say it's for learning & experience, but couldn't we just do that by reviewing the akashic records or like a mind download in the matrix type virtual reality situation? Aliens & extra-dimensional entities are supposedly watching this planet closely in anticipation for something unique or wonderous...seems to me not that much greater than us humans watching drama on TV & movies...one big superficial distraction.

Well I did find one really good answer for the meaning of existence at http://www.kemstone.com/Nonfiction/Philosophy/meditation.htm (LOVE)
Another thing I thought about is abstract & experimental art/music that a lot of people don't appreciate because they can't find meaning in it. But it's basically just about the joy of creation & expression for the sake of it. Exploring the infinite possibilities. Sorry for getting all off track on the subject here. Sometimes it's aggravating feeling like I'm trapped in this particular existence or ascension path or wheel of karma or cycle. I want to decide what I do when I die, which is most likely taking a nice long vacation in the source.

[Chris Priddy]

O

Dave's link to Hancock in his last blog was a good example of propositional forgiveness of self and others. By ex. of the rationale that our "2012" shift theater is by design to enable one's polarity choices. In other words render oneself to the scales of being weighed, measured, and potentially found wanting. Therein a repeat of third density if so. Point is that anyone who would suggest self referential judgement in any terms isn't utterly false, is fooling themselves. In effect any mantra to the contrary is more of the same exploitation and proposition to humanities conditioned fear.

It's incredible. In any event if someone wants to stop the inertia of cyclical dysfunction, all they need do is realize their dysfunctional perspective is not of their making. By that I mean Humanities very short existence on Earth has always been corrupted by design to exploit MAN. A conditioning that inverts MAN's natural and inextricable pulse of cooperative behavior to survive and multiply- i.e. experience one's subjective expression. An inversion of self that then becomes a motion of dog eat dog survival that not only indefinitely subjugates any fulfilled experiential expression, but invariably creates a societal collapse of self. Plain english we're looking at a complete failure of self perspective polarity theater. And a brilliant design otherwise, to perpetually enslave MANkind in a proposition to render oneself subject forgiveness from one's own corruptly conditioned mind set not of their making. What better way to control and exploit others than by their own efforts to falsely enable.

Which brings to point our so called interactive "intelligent designs" that necessarily represents the simultaneity of the past present and future in and of our infinite here and now. That's to say the practical capacity to appreciate a societal interconnectivity-subjective experiential expression between ourselves. A perspective mobility that plainly points out that if we're going to define our celestial incompetence. In a word it would spell out "Evolution". The idea that a contrast of polarity is necessary is silly talk. If this were true a practically appreciable simultaneity between our ONEself perspective(s) is a fairy tale. And there's no such thing as simultaneity, or what is omnipresence, omniscience, or omnipotence- however proximal or localized one's omni-perspective may be. But a latitude of a ONEself coalescence of experiential expression in no way suggests that an absolute or omni perspective is not also expansive.

______turn the page

[Chris Priddy]

(Note: this is part#2 v...so, please first read part# 1^)

...What I'm getting at is if one is occupied in and of a self perspective environment of a more or less timeless mobility. In other words a perspective simultaneity. This instance of our ONEself-universal consciousness is then simply a functional and fulfilled perspective in and of an infinite here and now. There's no such thing as the past or the future. All perspective experiential expression is a confluence of interactive transitioning in the past present and future that is an infinitely expansive here and now. Meaning anything I've learned, you learned, thereby one's experiential subjectivity is augmented in reflection of the other. There's no need to waddle along in effort to try and heighten experiential expression or prompt a choice of service to self or others via this instance of our self perspective environment. That is "presently" segregated from our practically appreciable simultaneity.

It's an evolutionary design of celestial incompetence that's beyond contempt. Which is to say we're well beyond any needs of redundant-invariably regressive experiential reference. It's crazy talk to accept a proposed design and outline that the expanse and contraction of one's subjective reference is necessarily a dependent of dysfunctional pretext. That said the drama of war games and corruption- good v. evil- the margin and lines of grey being constantly negotiated and eventuating a merger of one can no doubt serve up some kicks and giggles. Some sorrow, pain, needs to intimidate, dominate, get some pay back. And so the cyclical inertia feeds increasingly entropic-non cooperative societal interaction until it collapses. Supposed kicks and giggles aside, the provocative shine is still a mockery of genuine expanse and contraction of functional interconnection between selve(s). -Nothing can compete with the nature of our absolute yet expansive simultaneity.

I don't know what genius or committee of geniuses' decided evolution and segregation from ONEself is a good idea; but they're dumber than a bag of hammers. In their.. our defense, this shift may well open a revolving door between densities. The facility to negotiate frequency between them provided the skill sets. And points to another instance of segregate failure that is the likely the perspective stage that provoked evo-dysfunction to begin with. Whether an evo march is labored in corrupted influence or not, it makes no difference in light of an otherwsie inextricably functional simulcast-mobility.



O.2O11-2O13________________

[billybobbutterball]

I gotta confess that whenever Chris Priddy posts his learned observations I wince since I know I will soon suffer from the affects of a stunning dosage of inferiority complex. I confess that I can't grasp but merely a bit here and there...much like my experience when trying to digest Kant's Critique of Pure Reason some sixty years ago. Burp!

So, what the heck is our beingness here on Earth supposed to be accomplishing?

It gets complicated.

For example, we have Dolores Cannon's work in talking in real time with a young Nostradamus..supposedly dead some 500 years ago. An interesting tidbit is that
Nost originally gave credit to "spirits in the future" for helping him craft the Quantrains. What the...! Yeah, it seems that in the convolutions of time/space, our lifetimes survive
our limited idea of time in space/time. The implication is that our WHOLE collection of past experiences are intact and well! As Dolores connected with the youngish Nost our
future selves relate to us! Makes my head spin!

Another strange lesson from The Convoluted Universe is that of the reality of all things having conciousness. One memorable example had to do with metalic robots from a planet far away. Seems that two fell in love...no kidding. Their creators thought it an impossible joke and cruelly teased them because of their impossible situation.

I've gotten lost here... Might as well finish off with a strained salute to the illuminati. Without all their screwing around with economics and power seeking via wars we wouldn't have all the nifty technologies we enjoy playing with. I'd rather do Netflix
than dig up potatoes and then ride my shaggy old donkey in fruitless search of barter.

the highest and best good to all concerned! love, billious... AKA BBB

[Chris Priddy]

O

Hey Bill- the first part of my post is on the previous page. Possibly you can shift it over here for better context.

And you make a good point with regard of technology (I'm a devout Motorhead) and genuinely feel we'll be able to learn skill sets that will afford us metallic form mobility if we like. By example if the Ladies feel the urge to remotely occupy their manifest projection of themselves in a translucent form of metallica, that embodies the light of the sun itself shinning through her sheer metallic dress. Who are we to argue.

Salu

O.2O11-2O13______________

[charles obscure]

Chris Priddy I think I gain the gist of what you are saying, but I think many of us would appreciate it if you could somehow write your main points in a way that is a little easier to understand. Often it seems your wording is perhaps just a little unnecessarily convoluted. (mod says..Charles, do you mean like, "Obscure"? :rolleyes:)

I would ask your thoughts on the quote from the law of one series that suggests (to paraphrase) 'all our distortions are a result of the limits of our (current 3d) perspective.'

I think if you accept this quote as possibly correct, you need to accept the fact that many of the parameters in your equation are possibly inaccurate due to insufficient data. If we as 3d beings could all logically analyze our current state and come up with a bullet-proof reasoning as to why it is what it is, what precisely needs to be done etc. There would be no need to strengthen such concepts as faith and will through meditative practices that can only impress an understanding from within. It is suggested in the LoO that this understanding can not be logically rationalized or defined in words. You seem to be over-looking the faculties of the deep (or subconscious) mind where miracles originate and this area is something that is beyond our conscious rationalization process or control.

So, as far as your conclusions (as far as I understand) on the massive failure of this experience, your conclusions are inevitably flawed if you have accepted the teachings that are written in these books. I believe only a disregard of many of the fundamental aspects of these teachings could lead one to such conclusions.

[Chris Priddy]

O

Chris I would ask your thoughts on the quote from the law of one series that suggests (to paraphrase) 'all our distortions are a result of the limits of our (current 3d) perspective.'

Hey Charles; according to the LoO teachings the distortions of our 3D perspective is a result of our segregation from ONEself.
That said I not only accept the teachings, I feel they're absolutely correct.

So what's the problem.

The problem is:

-evolution

-segregation from oneself

Solution:

-abandone an evolutionary perspective simultaneity

-abandone segregate philosophy between all densities

How do you do that- issues of consciousness acclimation-frequency variables between densities are insoluble.
Hence the need of evolutionary form and functionality-consciousness development.

Nah.

Simultaneity is inextricably the nature, function and form of all self perspective. Our gleaned experiential expression via any given instance of our self perspective ONEself is a shared coalescence of real time interactivity between us. Whether we're "presently" aware of this mobility or not. Point is there's no need of redundant and regressive evolutionary experiential expression provided one is born of a perspective simultaneity.

Ok fine. But here again- evolutionary perspective consciousness is necessary to achieve an appreciable simultaneity.

No it's not.

How do you know that.

Because our universal consciousness-etheric mobility is necessarily absolute. If our etheric-universal ONEself were not absolutely functional, devoid dysfunction entirely- our illusory material projections would not be apparent. Whether our self perspective environments are our manifest projections of the good, bad or indifferent. Makes no difference given a practically appreciable simultaneity is necessarily a self perspective occupied an interactive here and now. Which is an infinite coalescent transitioning of the past present and future experiential expression of ONEself. Particularly for those fortunate enough to appreciate their simultaneity.

Wait a minute now. Our self perspective consciousness only arises by way of intelligent kinetic conscious intention, whereby our etheric universal consciousness that is neither a medium or property of the laws of physics, then splinters yet again in another self perspective of ONEself in illusory manifest form and functionality.

Yep.

So why would we manifestly project our etheric universal consciousness in a perspective life form and function that is not of a practical and appreciable simultaneity.

Good question.

The LoO teachings offer an explanation.

The short of it is a segregation from ONEself in 3D is more fun. It expedites progression from lower density consciousness however blissful and cooperative, and also negates any interest to flash forward back to a purely etheric mobility of ONEself too quickly. Thereby becoming absentee from a shared perspective etheric-material simultaneity. According to the LoO teachings. Here again more segregation failure.

As it is the natural questions become more fun for who.

Obviously more fun for those fortunate enough to practically appreciate their simultaneity.

What exactly does that mean anyway. To practically appreciate our ONEself simultaneity.

_______turn the page

[Chris Priddy]

______.


It means I can fully appreciate all your etheric consciousness-subjective mobility-experiential learning, and apply it practically via my self perspective material environment. And back at ya. An infinitely expansive interconnectivity between us in the infinite here and now. Which is a practical coalescence of perspective simultaneity that spans the goings on of the past present and future ONEself. Real omnipresence. Real omniscience. Real omnipotence albeit an omni perspective or simultaneity that is proximal yet expansive.

So it's not a real omni perspective if it's forever expansive.

Yes it is.

The nature of our reciprocal, universal etheric-material consciousness is necessarily absolute yet expansive. If a 4D society is fully aware of one another- they're omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent albeit from one moment to the next. It doesn't matter that this instance of their perspective ONEself is "presently" localized or segregated from the infinite expanse of our etheric-material universal consciousness.

So what's the problem again.

One's self perspective environment becomes a distortion in the absence of an appreciation of our interactive simultaneity.

I think if you accept this quote as possibly correct, you need to accept the fact that many of the parameters in your equation are possibly inaccurate due to insufficient data. -Charles

No- somehow or another we screwed the pooch. Plain and simple. But like I said. I think the root cause effect here is a segregate failure between densities. We fix the big problems and the little problems will take care of itself. It's my feeling this shift is all about doing just that. We're all over it.

O.2O11-2O13______________________

[MarkM]

Why is it so complicated and hard to grasp, Chris? I feel that we might want to consider writing in a way in which most of us simpler folk can gather that which is not meant to be complicated and obtuse. We're here to open ourselves, simply and within range of common and mutual hugging understanding.

With gratitude and forgiveness comes a greater reality of aligning with our creatorship. As we look back, love and passing on issues with full surrender to what happens here seems key. Acceptance. Mark

[charles obscure]

______.
No - somehow or another we screwed the pooch. Plain and simple. But like I said. I think the root cause effect here is a segregate failure between densities. We fix the big problems and the little problems will take care of itself. It's my feeling this shift is all about doing just that. We're all over it.


Again I think concrete statements like this somewhat contradict statements in the LoO, for example the Ra Quote 'there are no mistakes'. However, I honestly can relate with the feeling of something gone wrong and failure in this current experience. I often feel that way too, and grow impatient and frustrated with the process. I am certainly a work in progress! But I chalk it up to the fact that (as it states in the LoO) the harvest is now and catalyst is very intense. We are all facing extreme challenges! Even David says at this time it's rough and if we are simply keeping a consistent positive attitude through this we are doing pretty good for ourselves. As I stated before I don't admit to fully grasping all of your points, but personally I feel its possibly a little counter-productive to think in terms of massive failures and accusing our creators as being dumb. I don't think it is even really possible for us to have a full understanding of these beings within the context of this experience.

@ BillyBob - you really feel my above post was so convoluted?
Here is my point in a nutshell - the LoO suggests understanding is not of this experience, so suggesting our current experience is a massive failure within the context of this experience cannot possibly be a fully informed opinion. Ra talks about things like the tarot as developing faith and will. I feel faith is an important thing to develop within this limited viewpoint. If we could really understand everything and how it works from this perspective where does the concept of faith really come in?

Feel free to add any of your own thoughts, or let me know if you think I am misinterpreting anything here.

Good grief Mr. Obscure! My remark was (evidentally) merely a failed joke regarding your name better fitting your observation than the word you used...
please re-read.

Hey! You are not convoluted whatsoever!...you aimed that term at Mr. Priddy
All that being said, I think you do real good... plus I'm left in awe by Chris Priddy's
deep thinking...

[Chris Priddy]

O

Consider writing in a way most can gather that which is not meant to be complicated and obtuse.

I did Mark. And you're right. It isn't complicated.

It's plain enough we don't need to "evolve" in either life form or functionality to appreciate our subjective, experiential expanse in consciousness.

What I mean is an absence of one's appreciable simultaneity in any perspective life form and function is unacceptable.

But counter argument says all material expression of our universal ONEself IS intelligent- and by consequence IS necessarily occupied in and of a mobile simultaneity.

And that's true enough for life form and function that has evolved enough to practically appreciate the mobility of what they already are.

So why do we manifestly project or create ourselves in and of life form and function that is "presently" unaware of their perspective mobility-simultaneity.

The practical real world rationale is twofold.

Real world physics demands we must evolve in both life form and function to facilitate the experiential reference necessary to progress in higher density-consciousness frequency.

Ok that's the real world rationale but is that the real world reality.

No it's not.

Why not.

Because our etheric universal consciousness is neither a medium or property of our real world physics-material self perspective environment.

So what.

The significance is our reciprocal etheric-material projections of self and environment are necessarily and inextricable the form and function of our absolute-etheric simultaneity.

Provided we manifestly create-project ourselves in and of an awareness of ONEself.

Fine, so why don't we do just that.

The real world rationale is we can't considering an experiential reference of heightened consciousness is necessary to traverse higher densities.

Why.

Because real world physics says our densities are necessarily segregated by consequence of the fact that our consciousness has variable frequency acclimation plateaus of awareness.

And how did this density segregation of our ONEself simultaneity come about to begin with.

Real world physics demands it.

Is that a fact.

Nope.

No...

-The only so called real world physics are that of our etheric-material projections of our self perspective environment.

Meaning there's no need for evolutionary migration, and there's no need of segregate densities in light of the fact that our universal consciousness is absolute, yet expansive.

Which is to say that a real world simultaneity or what is a practically appreciable omnipresence-omniscience-omnipotence is necessarily expansive.

Point is the rationale to manifestly create ourselves in and of limited mobility is counter intuitive and unnecessary in both the form and functionality of our desired subjective experiential expression.

Doesn't add up- and again I genuinely feel our shift will serve a tremendous momentum in redefining our perspective-mobility.


We're here to open ourselves, simply and within range of common and mutual hugging understanding.

We're all on the same page Mark.


O.2O11-2O13___________________