Col. Philip J. Corso

[jason w]

a bit ot, but what the heck. david does reference some of what corso
says in his work and since i haven't read the colonel's book, thought
it was a good summation. ---jason

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col. philip j. corso
july 6, 1997
part 1
transcribed by kay grissom

bell: my guests are, colonel philip j. corso, retired, william j.
burnes, who co-authored 'the day after roswell' and, of course, linda
moulton howe. we will get back to one of the most amazing, incredible
stories that you have ever heard in your entire life.
commercials.

bell: back now to roswell, new mexico and i'm not sure who's on the
line. hello, there.

howe: hi, it's linda.

bell: hi, linda, good.

howe: before we go to colonel corso to describe exactly what these
physical artifacts were in these file cabinets in general trudeau's
offices that colonel corso was then given the assignment....by the
general....to try to get into the military industrial complex
research and development projects, i would like william burns to just
go into the details of the relationship, a little bit more, between
the federal bureau of investigation.....the army....the navy....the
air force....and the central intelligence agency when john f. kennedy
became president in 1960. a few months later is when colonel corso
was in the pentagon talking with general trudeau about what they had
to do....in one of the most incredible situations in this internecine
warfare within our own government. here is william burnes to help
explain this.

bell: alright.

burnes: so, the stage is set now that's it's 1960, and you've got
this split between the civilian intelligence services.....basically
the cia which had been penetrated by the kgb and was really pumping
out from false estimates of intelligence......

bell: right.

burnes: .....a communist party line...a soviet line. you have the
military, which knows about this, and you have some senators and
government people 'in the know' and some not in the know. at this
point, you've got reports of these strange abductions reaching the
fbi. hoover absolutely does not trust the cia and, in fact, art you
may know....many of the listeners may know....that as early as the
late 1940's, there was a shooting war going on between the cia and
the fbi over spying and the running of drugs right after the end of
the war. so, there was no love lost between these agencies. at the
same time, at the very same time, these very strange reports of
cattle and animal mutilations began reaching the local sheriff's
departments because they are not doing this things in the middle of
new york city.

bell: sure.

burnes: where are they? they're out in the west. they're on farmland.
they're on cattle ranches. sheriff's get these reports. what do they
do? they begin compiling them, turn them over to the state department
of public safety in places like texas, colorado, wyoming. eventually,
they reach the fbi. what is the fbi supposed to do? well, when they
go to the cia for help, it's like throwing something into a
bottomless pit, nothing comes out. the agencies aren't talking to
each other, anyway.

bell: right.

burnes: the army begins compiling these reports because where else
can the fbi go? it is now the spring of....it's is just after january
of 1961. there is a full scale war going on inside the beltway
between the civilian intelligence....i.e. the cia.....and the
military intelligence. the 3 military services: army, navy, air
force...all have their own separate r&d divisions. trudeau
effectively organizes the army into the most powerful r&d division
that exists and this.....in the midst of this warfare....is where
colonel corso comes to begin his stint as the director of foreign
technology. the very same division, named by nathan twining....leaked
a decade earlier....to be the repository of alien artifacts.

bell: whoooh!

burnes: jfk and rfk have just taken office.....a completely new
administration. they are not well liked by the intelligence
community. they are not well like because they are, obviously, very
fraternal. remember, they come to power....this administration comes
to power under the could of suspicion to begin with because of the
whole cook county vote and what happened in the final hours of the
electoral count to get them into office, in the first place. lyndon
johnson, as you know, also made many, many political deals to gain
favor in the senate and to reach power. the johnson family became
very, very powerful in texas....strong ties to the fbi. so, this is
an administration that comes in under a real cloud of suspicion. that
sets the stage.

bell: alright. so, that sets the state. now, from colonel corso, i
presume, we should ask what he found in general trudeau's cabinets.

burnes: okay, but before we even get to that, remember....the first
thing that jfk and rfk are faced with when the reach office
is....they are dealing with the information coming to support the bay
of pigs. so, they immediately run afoul of the cia, in the very early
days of the administration because they pulled back from the bay of
pigs......infuriate the immigrant cuban community in the united
states but, also, infuriate the whole civilian intelligence
apparatus.

bell: i'm sure.

burnes: when he removed allen dulles from the cia, a long time
political hand in government, he furthered angered the cia and the
war is now exacerbated and that's what happens to colonel corso.

bell: well, the only word i would think of would be betrayal. they
would feel betrayed.

burnes: that's right. they're betrayed and, at the center of this
whole warfare, is the stockpile of information and
technology....retrieved from roswell.....sitting in the pentagon.

bell: alright.

howe: and here, art, is colonel corso to describe what he physically
saw....handled....in these file drawers in general trudeau's office.

bell: alright, colonel corso.

corso: ya, i'm on now.

bell: welcome back. they have set the stage well and so, there you
are, working for general trudeau, is that correct?

corso: yes.

bell: what did you find and how did you.....your own words, sir.

corso: just let me go back a little bit. general trudeau said he was
going to send for me. he told me this. he came over to visit in
germany and, when i came back, he sent for me.......the chief of
personnel called me. i went to see general trudeau and he said, "you
on board, phil?" i said, "yes." he said, "watch things for me, the
rest don't understand." it was just what bill burns just described to
you, what he meant, really. so, he made me his special assistant and
about a week or ten days passed and i was appointed foreign
technology division. when i moved into foreign technology division,
just a sortie after that, general trudeau called me and said, "i'm
delivering a file cabinet to you." he said, "you go through it and
you start working up a plan of action and recommendations to me."

bell: without telling you what was in it?

corso: no, no, he didn't tell me what was in it.

bell: oh boy.

corso: later on, he used to joke a lot when he came in my office and
he'd say, "where's corso's junk file?" or "his nut file?" because the
items on my desk looking liked i picked them up out of a waste basket
or something.

bell: heh heh heh.

corso: he used to kid about that but then he'd also get serious and
say, "phil, they could change our lives....change the world." in one
particular case, i did talk to the general....i had the integrated
circuit chips were about like a quarter....and i mention to him, i
told him, "general, what happens....what's gonna happen in the future
if this chip....." which was one of the most important things we
had....i'd say number 1, just about.... "integrates with the human
brain?" he looked, he said "yes, phil, that's a great danger but
let's hope the people come after us understand but i doubt if that'll
happen in our lifetime." well, he died and i'm still here and they're
working on that now. in addition to that, when i started to go
through the file, i found.....first thing i had was a piece of metal
about the size of a postcard.

bell: uh huh.

corso: paper thin but the atoms were aligned in it and this came from
livermore lab which was one of the laboratories we financed up at
mit. he called me in and he said, "i'm making you the head of a team.
you will get an army of engineers and even a german scientist" and i
did assign 2 to my team and they worked with me. so, the job was to
go around industry.....the first job.....and see who was working on
such items. so, we did. we started to go to industry.

bell: in other words, ibm, the big ones who were working on........

corso: we went to......this particular one i'm talking about is the
alignment of atoms. so, one day when we went to one of these
industries.....they had a long tunnel-like thing.....and at the end
of the day.....right after supper....i motioned to one of the german
engineers, german scientists......i told him, "hans, take a walk with
me." so we went for a walk and i asked him, "what do you think?" he
said, "colonel, if i believe everything i've heard today, i have to
unlearn everything i've ever learned." so, i told him "hans, you
might have to." he just stopped. he said, "i'll remember what you
said." from then on, and general trudeau......when he assigned me as
head of this team.....made the statement, "this could be bigger than
los alamos because we could make space ships light as a
feather....can't be penetrated by radiation cosmic action....no
gunshots can penetrate it."

bell: you're referring to the metal.

corso: the piece of metal, yes, i'm still there. so, we worked on
that but i have to end on a note with that piece of metal......we
didn't succeed.....much as we tried and he gave me instructions, "if
you think they're beginning the process.....fund it."

bell: in other words, let me be straight, colonel. you took this to a
private corporation....

corso: yes.

bell: .....and you, in essence, said, "can you duplicate this or can
you make this or can you back engineer this?" and they tried it and
they failed.

corso: let's say we all failed. we financed it, even. we never
did....anybody we assigned it to that we thought was getting close to
it.....it never did, let's say, happen.

bell: alright, i see. this metal....this piece of metal.....came from
where? the crash at roswell or did you not know?

corso: no, i knew. the file i had, had papers with it describing it.

bell: and where did it come from?

corso: it came from roswell.

bell: roswell.

corso: then we moved to the integrated circuit....the size of a chip.
then general trudeau gave me instructions. "find out who, in
industry, is working on similar" like the transistor was already
started.

bell: right.

corso: he said, "any scientists that are working on it, write me a
plan of action on how we are going to do all this." so, i finally
came up with a plan and gave it to him and he ok'd it. we would find
scientists and people who were working in that area....that
particular area....and we would infuse in there, normal research and
development proposals.....not the item itself....but proposals
describing it. these were supposed to be normal r&d think tank type
operations.

bell: in other words, you would come up with a proposal that would
suggest for example: what about the concept of developing an
integrated circuit....an ic circuit?

corso: yes.

bell: miniaturized.

corso: yes. along that line we came up. it was in the file.

bell: how did you get that, colonel, to the industry leaders?

corso: general trudeau started a program, what we called 'applied
engineering.' even dr. tellar was in on that, and he's still alive,
you know.

bell: right.

corso: this 'applied engineering', here's exactly what we did. we
found out people who were working in that area.....we infused the
technology through our r&d projects and we funded it. they didn't use
our money, we funded the project and, every time we thought they were
slowing down, we would infuse a little more in and, finally, the chip
went over to them.

bell: all of this, black budget money.

corso: oh, no this was not black budget....this was r&d money.

bell: r&d money.

corso: it belonged to us. this was money appropriated by congress.

bell: alright.

corso: in addition to that, let me tell you this since you asked
about budget, there is such a thing as r&d t&e operation. that was
research and development and, these type of programs, where that the
first item made....we would go and check where it was done......t&e
stood for test evaluation, i better add that on.

bell: yes, sir.

corso: the first budget that came in, was the prototype and i'd tell
them, "when the first prototype comes off the line, i'll be there to
check it."

bell: you bet.

corso: many times it wasn't and i threatened sometimes to cancel....i
had the authority to cancel contracts. now, since the first item in
rdt&e was still under r&d and we financed that with our budget.
again, not a black budget, an open budget, voted by congress.

bell: understood.

corso: because remember, the projects that went out were normal
research and development contracts.

bell: makes sense, yes.

corso: they weren't sub rosa or anything like that.

bell: right.

corso: or any say, we can't tell you. we put them out in that sense.
this program started to operate. then, one day, i pulled out of the
file a bunch of wires.....i thought they were wires and they were
emitting colors. there must have been some sort of circuit in
there...some sort of power source. i had no idea what it was. i
didn't know if it was a wire or it was something plastic but,
finally, we got people working on similar.....in fact, lately, i
talked to some scientists who were in that area....and this was
infused in....and i think one of the ones it was infused in was bell
laboratory. from that, fiber optics developed.

bell: fiber optics.

corso: yes. now, also, let me get back to the little story on the
chip.....on the integrated circuit.

bell: alright, may i stop you and ask you....the material in that
filing cabinet, was that all from roswell?

corso: it was from roswell but, sometimes i got the idea that some of
it maybe came from the st. augustine crash out here.

bell: alright. anyway, you were going back to the chip.

corso: yes, going back to the chip now, that was one of our really
number one imports. i found, in my file....a file i had in
there....that was labeled 'project rainbow.'

bell: project rainbow.

corso: project rainbow was von neumann's....john von neumann's
project. i read it and it was amazing. he was starting to work on
artificial intelligence....artificial life.

bell: oh my.

corso: i put it aside and, as i look back, was i remiss.....i had the
organization, the money, the brains, people to do it and i
didn't.....i put it away because i truly didn't understand it to,
tell you the truth. i didn't understand everything that i had. in
fact, many times i found we weren't that brilliant.

bell: how did you even decide where to take any item that you might
have.

corso: here's what happened. general trudeau made it a point to
contact most of the industries in the fortune 500.

bell: right.

corso: he, personally, went to visit 25 of the boards. in fact, to
give you a little story, i went with him to sperry rand. we met the
board, in fact, who come out and met us but macarthur himself. he was
chairman of the board.

bell: wow.

corso: i thought, myself and general trudeau, that was a great honor
when macarthur came out to see us. i served under him in korea.

bell: of course.

corso: in fact, i was standing there with both of them and they were
asking me questions. i was asking, how does this
happen.....me.....the greatest soldier we ever had and a korean
soldier and they're asking me questions......it doesn't make sense.

bell: you never actually transferred materials. you transferred
ideas.

corso: well, at certain stages we did.

bell: oh, you did.

corso: at certain stages but it had to progress. for example, general
trudeau told me one day....getting back to the integrated
circuit.....he said, "phil, the transistor...the way it is
today....and the integrated circuit....took us 5 years to develop. it
should have taken 250 years." now those were his exact words to me.
now, von neumann's project....maybe one of the reasons i did get a
little confused and we couldn't do it.....was really the super
computer had not come into existence, then.

bell: that's right.

corso: (unintelligible sentence here) so, maybe i had some intuition
not to fund this and start it because we really were not in a
position to exploit this and develop it. super computers had not been
developed at that stage but they were working on it. then, i'll tell
you another interesting little story. i had what we called a super-
tenacity fiber. it looked like string. you couldn't burn it....you
couldn't cut it with a razor blade...and we found out that the atom
structure was aligned in them.

bell: that the what....the atom structure?

corso: yes, atomically aligned just like the piece of metal.

bell: just like the metal.

corso: now that is a strange little story, here, an interesting
little story. so what did we find? the nearest thing on this earth,
to that, was a spider web. a spider spins an atomically aligned web.

bell: alright, colonel, hold it right there for a moment. we're going
to take a break here at the bottom of the hour.

col. philip j. corso
part 2

bell: from bill in fairfield, california: "when colonel corso told
his story on cnn's 'talk back live', the older members of the
audience were nodding their heads in approval while the younger
people appeared to be rolling their eyes in disbelief. to understand
the roswell cover-up....the reasons why it took years for
individuals, like colonel corso, to come forward....you have to
examine the facts in the context of postwar america. on this
independence day weekend, i salute colonel corso and wish him well.
i'm sure he must have agonized before coming forward." colonel?

howe: it's me, art, and i couldn't agree with your words more. he is
truly an american hero along with general trudeau and many others at
that period of time when it was so difficult to know exactly what to
do, with all the complexities we're talking about tonight. before the
colonel continues with his fascinating story about the government's
and his interest in the spider web, i wanted to quote from his book.
this had to do with the autopsies on the creatures that were
retrieved from some crash....somewhere in new mexico: "the medical
report revealed that the creatures were enclosed within a one piece
protective covering like a jump suit or outer skin in which the atoms
were aligned so as to provide a great tensile strength and
flexibility. one examiner wrote that it reminded him of a spider's
web which appears very fragile but is, in fact, very strong."

bell: linda?

howe: ya.

bell: it sounds a lot like the aliens depicted in 'independence day.'

howe: well, these are the outer garments.

bell: i understand but, if you recall, in 'independence day' they had
an outer.....

howe: yes, yes you're right, yes, and how much of fiction is actually
copying non-fiction because of leaks? we'll probably never know but
you're right. you're making a very good point. " well, the unique
qualities of a spider web result from the alignment of fibers that
provide great tenacity because they are able to stretch under great
pressure yet display a resiliency that allows them to snap back into
shape, even after the shock of an impact. similarly, the creatures
space suit or outer skin appeared to be stretched around it as if it
were literally spun over the creature and seized up around it,
providing a perfect, skin tight protective fit. the doctors had never
seen anything like it before." now, here is colonel corso to continue
this exploration of spider web tenacity.

corso: i'm back on.

bell: yes, colonel. welcome back.

corso: now, to finish the spider web story, these spider webs....you
could stretch them for miles. they had like a hook type
arrangement....when they were spun....it was aligned....and it would
stretch. you could stretch it for miles and not break it and it would
snap back in place. so, what we did, because of it's strength and
tenacity, we made flight jackets out of it and it worked very well.

bell: flight jackets.

corso: the problem was, we couldn't get enough spiderweb. so, we gave
a contract out....the first one i remember....and this, by the way,
appeared in a discovery magazine story not too long ago....which i
cut out. we financed the university of wyoming. we wanted them to try
to clone the spider.

bell: i'm sorry, i missed that colonel. you wanted them to what?

corsica: clone the spider.

bell: oh, clone the spider.

corso: so we could get enough material to make flight jackets.

bell: understood.

corso: but we never succeeded and they never succeeded and to today i
don't think it's been done. so, we had to go to other fibers like
kevlon, the way the flight jackets are made today.

bell: but, it all began with that file drawer material.

corso: yes, that came out of my file drawer.

bell: may i ask a question, colonel, that jumps way ahead?

corso: sure.

bell: what happened to all the material that was in that file drawer?
where is that material, now?

corso: really, i don't know. some people have asked me at times, "did
you keep any? you could have kept some and made millions of dollars!"
i said, "wait a minute. i was an army officer. that didn't belong to
me."

bell: i understand.

corso: that was the army's. i was the one in intelligence and
security, the one that should keep people from stealing things from
the army.

bell: i understand. so, when you left you wouldn't have any idea of
it's chain of custody.

corso: no, i just turned it back over. just like....i can tell you
this..... i didn't know the chain of custody even before i got it.
naturally, when i retired...i wasn't even in the army anymore. i have
no idea, today. i asked some officers not too long ago, that i know,
to try to keep it quite.....and i told them where i thought the file
could be but it's up to somebody else to track it down because i
can't do it. i'm not in the army, anymore.

bell: uh huh.

howe: art.

bell: yes.

howe: just one of the other units or pieces in this amazing file
cabinet that colonel corso had, in the book he raises this, he
said, "why did the inhabitants of the craft have a cutting device
that" they could see that there was some kind of a red dot coming out
of a black piece that they had....one of these file cabinet
technologies that they did not understand and they didn't know what
it was. finally, one time, they saw some smoke in the room and
suddenly they could see this red beam of light and, of course, what
i'm describing is what we now know as a laser....they didn't know.

bell: laser, of course.

howe: he said, "why did the inhabitants of this craft have a cutting
device like this aboard their ship? it wasn't until later, when i
read military reports of cattle mutilations in which entire organs
were removed without any visible trauma to the surrounding cell
tissue, that i realized that the light beam cutting torch i thought
was in the roswell file, was actually a surgical implement, just like
a scalpel, that was being used by the aliens in medical experiments
on our livestock." i would like, now, to turn the phone back to
colonel corso to describe his first handling of this device.

corso: well, my first handling was....i had another device that was
similar to this and, of course, that a human that doesn't know any
better, i figured the batteries were dead. i couldn't turn it on.

bell: heh heh heh.

corso. there was no batteries in it. the first reaction....the
typical reaction of a human that doesn't know anything.

bell: would have been mine.

corso: it was mine, too, and i was in charge. later on, like the
other little instrument i had which i think measured intensity of
brain waves on different organs of the body.....that particular
thing...i thought the batteries were dead in that, also. i took it to
a lab down at belvar and, lo and behold, when some radiation
area....i went in.....the thing came on.

bell: when you went into an area where they was radiation?

corso: well, there was actually....we had low level radiation cause
that was our atomic lab....the one we kept that they didn't take away
from us.

bell: and so, when it got into that area, it turned on?

corso: it turned on. of course it had graduated things on it. i
shipped that to monmouth, also, because they were our electronic
labs.

bell: yes sir.

corso: there it wasn't an r&d project because they were our labs and
they were military, see. i never did get a, because i left not too
long after. when general trudeau retired, and six months later i did,
but i shipped it to them and that was those 2 interesting little
items. the laser....the second most important thing after circuits, i
think did....was our development of lasers. other people believe that
the laser started before. well, there were experiments before, yes,
way back, but the thing blossomed and took hold on lasers, in 1960.
even general beach, who took general trudeau's place, made that
remark in public.

bell: when you turned that device over.

corso: i turned them to monmouth, our electronic labs on long island.

bell: long island, yes.

corso: they were our electronic lab.

bell: did you, then, follow the progress of the back engineering?

corso: well, yes, i followed them for a time but then.......now, also
another thing, i better inject this right now. much as it seems now,
when they read the book and all, that people think how
important....this was not my primary job. this was like a secondary
job.

bell: what was your primary job?

corso: well, my primary job was special assistant chief for
r&d....for example, budgets. i was the first officer....the first
project officer on the anti-missile missile. trudeau assigned that to
me, the importance of it, because the brain from the
extraterrestrial.....it had 4 lobes.....that could integrate back and
forth electromagnetically and we did similar work on our icbms....our
intercontinental ballistic missiles. so, we did that and we used
these items on that......we went along that line. then, i'll just
ahead a little bit, we had what we called......well, a laser
developed and we had to be very careful with that weapon we developed
or we would have got into star wars. actually, the weapon....the dew
weapon....could go 30.000 kilometers a second.....air airplane
traveling the speed of sound....there was no lead time. i think they
calculated it would travel one millimeter before the ray hit it.

bell: what weapon was this?

corso: dew weapon. direct energy weapon.

bell: direct energy weapon.

corso: we had to be careful. it was dangerous. one doctor, he wrote
an article that i have a copy of, in a little paragraph, he said "the
most frightening thing in my life happened to me. my eyes popped out
and started to bleed inside." he said, "i've never had such a
frightening experience." and it came from looking at the ray so we
had to be careful with these things, too, because we didn't know all
what it would do. so, this is what was later developed in the dew
weapon and, also, we found out a very serious thing during that
period.....in fact, the project officer that took my place as special
projects officers of the anti-missile missile, he came to me one day
and said, "phil we got," he was a colonel, too, he says "we've got an
awful thing." he said, "the soviets can change the trajectory of
their icbm missiles in mid-air. i told him, " my god, we better go to
general trudeau, right now." that was a little frightening because,
if we couldn't hit them, look at the danger we were in.

bell: of course.

corso: so, that became a crash project and the answer was really a
dew weapon.

bell: a direct energy weapon?

corso: because it was so fast....so quick on the target.....

bell: that it wouldn't matter how it moved.

corso: you couldn't evade it. like our radars....like the radars i
had at red canyon here at white sands, on my nike missiles....we had
a pencil beam that could 'lock on'.

bell: colonel, was this some sort of electromagnetic pulsing weapon?

corso: it came from the laser family, let me put it this way. i have
the pamphlets...the pamphlets i have that the army sent me.....non-
classed.....but i have them with me.....they are all dated 1961,
1962, and 1963. also, there is another thing i'll tell you that
happened. this is an interesting little story. i have a pamphlet
written by general britain, head of armored material command, in
1963. on the front page is a picture of a cart we built.....a 3
wheeled cart.

bell: yes.

corso: this 3 wheeled cart.....we took the integrated circuit in it
and instead of putting electricity in it we put water in it. the cart
ran on water. when i told senator glen this, he got so interested, i
had to give him the photograph and told him, "senator, it was right
up here at heavy diamond lab in the north part of washington. maybe
you call them and go up and see it if it's still there."

bell: a process....was it utilizing hydrogen?

corso: no, water.

bell: yes, but the hydrogen from the water?

corso: well, i don't know if it broke down to that. it was still
liquid. it didn't turn to gas.

bell: it didn't turn to gas.

corso: i gave it to senator glen. in fact, that particular meeting i
had with senator glen, there was an interesting comment that came out
of that. i asked the senator, and i think he'll verify it because i
had the appointment for half an hour and he spent an hour and a half
with me and he had people waiting. i mentioned flying saucers to him
and he slowly smiled and said, "you know, colonel, i'm an agnostic."
and i said, "but senator, you didn't say you don't believe," and he
laughed.

bell: heh heh heh.

corso: so, for the first time i sent to the army, army historical
branch engineers, and i told them where it was and what it was and if
they'd look it up and send me a copy, this was project
horizon.....the military colony on the moon, which we did in 1959.

bell: a military colony on the moon.

corso: 50 pages of it is an appendix in my book. in fact, the first
moon lander, there's a photograph of it in there. we did that. we had
some of the best brains in the country, i think, worked on it....von
braun scientists and all. when defense found out that and took it to
civilian top and took everything away from us and organized nasa,
they killed it on us. we were never able to do anything on it. i
declassified it for general trudeau and it lay there in the files for
years.

bell: what you're suggesting, colonel, is that we had spacecraft and
the ability to colonize the moon...which you're saying we did.....at
the same time we were developing a space program that, as compared to
it, was like a model a to a modern bmw.

corso: it was the forerunner of the gemini and the other satellite.
lately, a friend of mine, a scientist, met with in atlanta with
nasa's top people and he threw project horizon.....the 310
pages....on the table and they were flabbergasted. after all these
years, it was dead in the files. in fact, if you look in the appendix
of the book, in the front page of horizon....you will see, right on
top, where it's secret and it's crossed off. the secret is crossed
off because i declassified it for the general and this is the first
appearance it makes in public.

bell: project horizon and that that went on for how many years?

corso: well, they killed it on us in about 1961. the department of
defense just said 'nothing doing', no appropriation,
nothing.....forget it.

bell: could it have continued, colonel, without your knowledge?

corso: it didn't continue. no, i had knowledge. although i retired
from the army, i had friends there. we trusted each other. we talked
many times. i lived in arlington, virginia. i was close by, i saw
these boys. no, it did not continue, unfortunately.

bell: why would a project, capable of putting a colony on the moon,
not continue?

corso: well, i think bill burns testified....came out with
this....there was a battle of let's say territory or whatever you
want to call it.....of appropriations. there was a terrific battle
going on inside the government, which people didn't know about. this
thing, let's say, got caught in the battle. they didn't like the
army. they didn't like us. the civilian heads....out of the military,
you know....they didn't like us very much and they wanted to pull us
down. anything we did was.......tried to take it away from us.
unfortunately, this project....with the moon lander in there.....a
picture of the moon lander....it's in there......they just destroyed
it on it. they just made us quit....stop. we got orders of 'no more'
and the project died.

bell: god!

corso: there's all the photographs. in fact, right here she has right
in her hand the book. what's the page number.

bell: colonel, why don't you hand the phone to linda howe for just
one moment, if you would, sir.

corso: yes, ok.

bell: linda, 2 things, very quickly. one, i'm trying to make sense of
all this. the electromagnetic....the direct energy weapon he
mentioned....

howe: right.

bell: in my mind might translate to an electromagnetic pulsing weapon
and, as you know, in sts48 and 80, we see things occurring that look
very much like an electromagnetic pulsing weapon.

howe: right.

bell: point one. point two, i'm finding it very hard to understand
how a project that colonized the moon, prior to our......or as our
space program was just getting off the ground.....could have possible
been dropped. even with budget wars going on or, using that
technology to have done all that and then just drop the project?

howe: yes, and i'm going to....in just a few minutes....i'm going to
transfer this back to mr. burns to explain that, art, but i want you
to hear excerpts from the actual, now unclassified by colonel corso,
this is a paragraph signed by arthur g. trudeau, chief of research
and development in the pentagon. "i envision expeditions, development
of the proposal to establish a lunar outpost to be of critical
importance to the united states army of the future. this evaluation
is apparently shared by the chief of staff, in view of his
expeditious approval and enthusiastic endorsement of initiation of
the study which said, 'there is a requirement for a manned military
outpost on the moon. the lunar outpost is required to develop and
protect potential united states interests on the moon, to develop
techniques in moon-based surveillance of the earth and space, in
communications relay and in operations on the surface of the moon, to
serve as a base for exploration of the moon, for further exploration
into space, and for military operations on the moon....if
required....and to support scientific investigations on the moon."

bell: linda, i need to understand.

howe: ya.

bell: did the colonel say that we actually did that, went to the
moon?

howe: oh, no.

bell: only that it was proposed based on the technology we were
developing or were trying to develop.

howe: ya, general trudeau wanted this done and this was all drawn up
as a plan and it was going forward as an extension of general trudeau
getting these artifacts.

bell: okay, i understand.

howe: definitely, the rug was pulled out from under them.

part 3

bell: talk about people who got to play with toys of the future, my
guest philip j. corso, colonel corso, now retired....fits squarely
into that category. linda, i assume you're on the line?

howe: yes, and during this break, art, i learned from the colonel
that tomorrow he will be at kirtland afb in albuquerque signing his
books on the military base. a huge irony after these 50 years and the
pentagon in washington can't keep enough of the books in stock and
they both said, "if that's not a signal that this book is full of
truth....the people that are at the inside today, want this
book.....that is it."

bell: it's astounding! linda, i just want to read this to you and
just see if it resonates. from sean in the yucca valley, "i've head
from several people who work in high-technology, that the carrying
capacity of fiber optics is so great that (art: get this) no future
replacement for it is even being considered. do you know if it's
true. if that's the case, have you ever heard of another terrestrial
derived technology so robust that further development is deemed
unnecessary?"

howe: well, i'm going to have the colonel try to address that after
we had decided that what we would do next.....because this is so
important and so many people want to know about the big black eyes
and everybody has.....probably listening to this radio
program.....has seen the controversial santilli film in which these
beings....the surgeon lifts off a thin black lens off of both eyes
and he goes somewhere.

bell: right.

howe: i'm going to read to you briefly from colonel corso's own
words: "i was most interested in file descriptions accompanying a 2
piece set of dark, elliptical eye pieces as thin as skin and these
are kind of this file drawer kind of stuff. the walter reed
pathologist said, 'they adhere to the lenses of the extraterrestrial
creature's eyes and seem to reflect existing light and walter reed
pathologists are the ones who did some of the initial autopsies on
beings retrieved from new mexico. even in what looked like complete
darkness, so as to illuminate and intensify images in the darkness to
allow their wearer to pick out shape. the reports had said that the
pathologist at walter reed, who autopsied one of these creatures,
tried himself to peer through them in the darkness to watch the one
or two army sentries and medical orderlies walking down a corridor
adjacent to the pathology lab. these figures were illuminated in a
greenish orange, depending on how they moved, but the pathologist
could see only their outer shape and, when they got close to each
other, their shapes blended into a single form. they could also see
the outlines of furniture and the wall and objects on desk tops.'
colonel corso now speaking, "maybe, i thought as i read this report,
soldiers could wear a visor that intensified images through the
reflection and amplification of available light and navigate in the
darkness of a battlefield with as much confidence as if they were
walking their sentry posts in broad daylight. these eye pieces didn't
turn night into day, they only highlighted the exterior shape of
things."
i am now going to ask the colonel if he has any further explanation
about just the outlining and then to go on further with this whole
issue.....is fiber optics so advanced that there is nothing else we
know, beyond? here is colonel corso.

corso: i'm back on.

bell: alright, is the technology linda just talked about what we now
know as 'night vision'?

corso: yes, it's imaging intensified .....it's night vision. we
called it 'night vision' lab, it belonged to us.

bell: oh my my.

corso: it belonged to us. it was financed by us and belonged to us.
now, to tell you a little story right at the end of what linda just
read you, general trudeau called me one day, he said "phil, here's an
envelope. it's a budget of night viewing laboratory. now you go down
with your inspection team," and i took german scientists and some
other engineers "and see how they're doing, how they're progressing.
if you're happy, give them the budget." so, i went to fort belevar
and the colonel who received us told me, he said "we were a little
leery when we heard you were coming down." i told him "my reputation
that bad or am i a hatchet man?" i told him "in this case, it might
be a little different. you're doing a good job. you notice my
gentleman friend over there? he never smiles but he smiled so he
liked what he saw. so, for a change, i think i'll play santa claus."
i told him "here, take this envelope, it's yours. the decision was
left to me to give it to you or not. you're doing a good job." he
opened it up.....it was a 60 million dollar budget. i told him "now,
there a little hitch to that. you don't get that free. the war is
heating up in viet nam. give us a night viewing device in 3 to 6
months. they did.

bell: whoooooh.

corso: so, that's the whole story about the night viewing device that
linda read you. also, to go back beyond this, the germans had an
infra-red which was very good. we took that......we also did infuse
that. i had a great advantage, not only did i have the german
documents but i had german scientists who could read it and explain
it to me.

bell: colonel, can i stop you and ask you a question?

corso: ya, go ahead.

bell: after, the war, sir, it is my understanding that there was a
general division of german scientists between the united states and
russia. do you have knowledge that the russians got any german
scientists who were privy to the same technology that the germans had
even prior to the war?

corso: no. i discussed the same problem with some of my german
scientists. they claim that the russians did get some german
scientists but not of the caliber that we had. we had....remember we
had obert.

bell: oh, yes. oh, yes.

corso: obert was a genius. he ranks with goddart. we had von braun.
actually, obert was von braun's boss and we had the other germans and
gerner (?), too, i had on my team. they claimed that they knew about
a lot of these things but didn't know enough to put them in
production. in fact, later in the war they were working on
things....they were forced to work on things like this.....but i
began to believe....and from what they said....and my interrogation
of them in the year i spent with them.....the same thing happened
over there that happened here. there were groups of combat officers,
like we had an affinity between us.....

bell: right.

corso: ......there was no paper trail. we trusted each other just
from head to head and nothing ever got out because these men were
not.....you couldn't get these men to talk or say anything. we didn't
like the lead in our government, because we didn't trust them, and i
understand in german there was a similar thing. the scientists did
not like the nazis and, i understand, there was possibly the same
thing in russia. if you read the middle photograph of my book, it
shows a picture of general trudeau and myself standing by the flag.
on my right, i think, is edward o'connor, he was one of truman's
poker playing buddies and the expert at the white house on the
soviets with the same division i was in. on the other hand, is victor
fedey (?), library of congress, librarian....he was one of the top
men and then he went to the foreign relations committee....great
friend of mine, fluent in russian. victor was going to russia and i
told him, i gave him some questions to ask, "victor, would you ask
your kgb general friend, these questions?" so, victor came back, he
said, "phil, i asked him those questions and he looked at me and
said, 'i know what you want but, victor, you want me killed?'

bell: well, that would indicate they had some......

corso: similar things.

bell: you betcha. alright, colonel, i can't let this interview end
without asking you....at the end of your first interview, the
exclusive interview you did with dateline....you made a comment about
a time machine. they seemed to use that comment of yours as a way to
almost try and discredit....you know, the commentator sort of rolled
his eyes....to sort of discredit everything else you had said. i've
got to ask you about that. may i ask you about that? what did you
mean?

corso: in the book, there is a part in there, where i discussed this
with professor obert. we discussed time travel. it was a discussion,
in those days, about the possibility of time travel and even the
british were working on this. i had some documents and things i
looked at but they weren't.....and then, if you go back to the
philadelphia experiment.....

bell: yes sir.

corso: ....there were some ramifications in there where something
disappeared and moved in space. even einstein's theories talk about
zero travel time, in his theories. and that was very unfortunate,
when i was at the white house, i didn't go up and see einstein.....i
should have. i missed out on talking to the greatest mind that ever
lived. then, i also discussed this with wilbur smith, the canadian
genius who was treated very badly by his government and he brought
us, also, a piece of metal. so, as far as that....these factors that
i just said....an end to this. the main item was that i did discuss
this with herman obert and obert thought....himself......not me
because i didn't know that much about it.....he's opinion was that it
is possible.

bell: that time travel is possible.

corso: that was herman obert and he was much more brilliant than i
was.

bell: so, then the reference to time travel was "it's something i'll
tell you about" and you would have said what you just now said, not
that you saw or travel in time or saw a time machine or anything like
it.

corso: i've never traveled in time, i wish i could.

bell: ha ha ha.

corso: i would like to do that.

bell: alright, i'm glad we cleared that up.

corso: in fact, lately i had an operation....i had a hernia. the
doctor pulled it down....a good friend of mine.......now i can eat
apple pie and ice cream at night and go to sleep like a baby. i told
him, "doc, what did you do, push me back 40 years? i haven't been
able to do that in 40 years." so, maybe i did travel back a little
bit.

bell: well, medically.

corso: i would like very much to travel in time if i could.

bell: well, i'm glad we cleared that up because they were using that
to discredit you.

corso: yes, they did but they didn't ask anything. they had so much
good material that they never used. i can't understand that but
that's their business. they are in the business and i'm not so they
were free to use what they did.

bell: when you got to see the interview, sir, after it was all done
and when it aired, were you surprised at what did not air?

corso: no, i was not because i had testified before mia committees
and i stood in front of senator curry, and senator mcmain and others
and i told them.....now the interview that i did when i talked to
president eisonhower......on the prisoner issue....we agreed to cover
the intelligence aspect on the spies that they were leaking back,
taking our boy's identity.....and then getting a russian to adopt
that identity and send him back here to the states as a spy.
president eisonhower never told me to cover the prisoners going to
russian. in fact, he gave me permission to put out the
numbers...which i did in associated press and in speeches i wrote for
lodge at the united nations......yet, the newspapers took the
sensational thing......that eisonhower hid the prisoners going to
russia from the families.

bell: of course.

corso: that never happened. so, i have some experience in this kind
of reporting.

bell: i understand. colonel, earlier i asked your co-author.....bill
burnes....what kind of agony and thought process you went through
before you came forward with all of this incredible information.

corso: it wasn't really agony. let me explain how.....why i decided
to write the book.

bell: please.

corso: first thing, i had an oath with the general....an honorable,
honest, good man. i was an army officer, i wasn't about to break my
oath to him. he released me of my oath, he said, when he died. three
years ago, unfortunately, he died. i was released from my oath and
then i could talk if i wanted to. i'm criticized by my own son and
family......said 35 years you didn't even tell us. i said, "i tell
you, i had an oath!" then one day my grandchildren asked
me, "granddad, what did you do during the war?" i figured i had
better start putting this on paper and at least leave them the
legacy. from that, i was writing my experiences, it evolved to what
we have now. that is how it came about and that is really the
story....a very simple story.

bell: but this is......

corso: i didn't go through any agony or anything. no one has ever
told me not to talk.

bell: i understand but this is such incredible information that
surely you must have at least considered the impact on society.

corso: yes. general trudeau told me one day, "phil, you and i go from
one development to another and we take it as a matter of course in
our daily work and we think nothing of it, yet some of these things
are earth shaking!" these are general trudeau's words. so, we had to
learn to live with that type of thinking. it was the same as almost
like thinking in combat. you have to live with it. i tell people "i
can tell you what it was like, but i can't tell you how it felt. you
had to be there yourself."

bell: how much of the material, colonel, that was in those file
cabinets, was developed into products we use today.....percentage
wise.....versus how much was in there that we simply couldn't do
anything with?

corso: very little. i would say that we've developed maybe less than
5%. we developed some very important things, now, for the world.

bell: so, in other words, somewhere there's still a lot of material
that someone is working very hard on.

corso: exactly! i think there is because.....like mr. burns
said.....a flying saucer cell is a capacitor....and the reason the
one that crashed they've been trying to build is....they miss out
that the extraterrestrial is really the guidance system. he blends
with the capacitor.

bell: god, i hear that from so many sources.

corso: we came to that conclusion, also. in fact, i think one of the
greatest things that we were remiss....that we didn't do more work to
study this clone or this creature or whatever he is. we should have
done a lot more. we should have diagnosed him and studied it
minutely.

bell: so, there were actually those eye covers in the cabinet as well
and that is what led to night vision goggles?

corso: yes. it was actually the third eyelid. it acts something like
a camel, you know, he has another eyelid that blocks the sand out.

bell: yes.

corso: it was similar so we have something similar in this world.
this one here...remember, these creatures walked around in the dark.
how could they see in the dark if they didn't have something like
that? one of the requirements, when i went to the night vision lab,
is make a night vision device which can fit over the soldiers eye
almost like goggles.

bell: yes.

corso: not something bulky and big that he can't wear. he has to put
it on. a soldier operates in combat, he can't be carrying a heavy
thing, looking through it, around. and they did, they did it. i have
a pamphlet that they wrote and i give them credit. they did perform
and made it and i was very proud and it was our own laboratory that
did it, too.

bell: alright, colonel, we've got to hold it there for a moment.
standby, colonel philip j. corso.


col. philip j. corso

part 4


bell: i wonder if you understand the magnitude of what you're hearing
this evening, or this morning, whenever you're listening to it?
retired colonel philip j. corso who was in the right place,
definitely the right place, at the right time...is telling us that
the majority of the advanced technology that we have today, didn't
come from 'us'. back to roswell, linda?

howe: art, i am looking at page 115 in the book 'the day after
roswell' and it says: "among the roswell artifacts and the questions
and issues that arose from the roswell crash, are my preliminary" and
i am quoting from colonel corso "list that needed resolution for
development scheduling or simple inquiries to our military scientific
community were: image intensifiers that ultimately became night
vision. .....fiber optics which were fed into the phone system and a
whole lot of other things......super tenacity fibers" that we have
just discussed , "that were related somewhat to the way spider web's
are so strong... .lasers.....molecular alignment metallic
alloys......integrated circuits and micro-miniaturization of logic
boards. our project horizon" which we're going to talk a little bit
more about here in a minute "portable atomic generators.....the ion
propulsion drive...... irradiated food.....particle beams (star wars,
anti-missile energy weapons)......

bell: right.

howe: ".......the electro-magnetic propulsion systems.....and
depleted uranium projectiles" this is in a section of the book about
some of the r&d development projects that he and general trudeau were
initiating and that have evolved to today. there is one thing, before
we go forward in time, we've been trying to understand the bismuth
magnesium layered material that may have come from the bottom of a
delta shaped craft.

bell: yes.

howe: other people are trying to understand what other kind of pieces
and particles they may have. i thought one of the most extraordinary
paragraphs in this book reads: "the initial revelations into the
nature of the spacecraft and it's pilot-interface" and he specifies
that there were hand imprinted panels, exactly as we have seen in the
debris footage in the controversial santilli video tape "came very
quickly during the first few years of testing at norton afb in
california. the air force discovered that the entire vehicle operated
just like a giant capacitor, in other words, the craft itself stored
the energy necessary to propagate the magnetic wave that elevated
it.....allowed it to achieve escape velocity from the earth's gravity
and enabled it to achieve speeds of over 7,000 miles an hour."

bell: in other words, the craft.....the outer portion of the
craft. ....might have been made of an anti-gravitic material much
like bismuth magnesium.

howe: that's right. the pilot's weren't affected by the tremendous g
forces that build up in the acceleration of conventional aircraft
because, to aliens inside, it was as if gravity was being folded
around the outside of the wave that enveloped the craft.

bell: right.

howe: it may have been like traveling inside the eye of a hurricane
but how did the pilots interface with the wave form they were
generating ?

bell: god, linda, as i hear all this i'm just sitting here shaking my
head. it's just all coming together.

howe: it is. it is. colonel corso says, "somehow the pilots became
part of the electrical storage and generation of the craft itself."
they didn't just navigate or pilot the vehicle, they became part of
the electrical circuitry of the vehicle, vectoring it in a way
similar to the way you order a voluntary muscle to move. the vehicle
was simply an extension of their own body because it was tied into
their neurological systems in ways that, even today, we are just
beginning to utilize. the thing that they discovered in those tight
fitting suits was that the molecules of the fibers themselves we all
oriented in the same way and he speculated that when this whole craft
system.....the hands are in the panels.....the craft is moving.....it
is lifted in a magnetic wave.....those fibers, all oriented, helped
make the entire system.....generated the whole system.....without
affecting these pilots ..

bell: linda, we are working on exactly that technology. rudimentary
stages, albeit, but i've seen a number of specials on television
about pilots literally thinking.....not having to push buttons and
pull levers and sticks and so on and so forth......but literally
thinking commands.

howe: that's right. from colonel corso, i hope everyone listening
tonight realizes, that over the last 50 years, some of our major
technological breakthroughs started in file cabinets in the pentagon
after they had been transferred from craft sites in the southwest of
the united states.....through wright patterson.....into areas of the
pentagon and other parts.......probably dreamland area 51, in
nevada... ...

bell: sure.

howe: ......and that today, we are listening to the voice of a man
who was there and who knows that this is the real thing and, what i
am also intrigued by, is that general trudeau, who when you begin to
read some of the history about his life and his intellect, was an
extraordinary man. a man who had an electrical engineering
degree..... .who was perfect for understanding and relating to
colonel corso.

bell: of course.

howe: they knew the implications and knew how important is was to get
it out into our country and not in the hands of enemies. further,
because there were animal mutilations.....because there were human
abductions......they had been monitoring since the end of the
50's..... they felt it was so important to get a base on our own
moon......to monitor what we'll call extraterrestrial biological
entity traffic coming in and out of our earth......what might be on
the moon..... general trudeau's project horizon was his answer to
getting this done and, suddenly from left field, comes a 'close
down'. i would like to go to william burnes, now, to try to help us
understand what happened to close down this brilliant general and
this brave colonel, trying to get all this going forward so that the
earth would not be so vulnerable.

here is william burnes.

burnes: hi, art. i want to go back to this whole concept of this war
going on inside the beltway and, obviously, nobody is going to say to
general trudeau or the army r&d, "well, look fellas, i think you're
too close to getting a bead on these e ts so we gotta shut you
down 'cause you're making a deal with them for the planet earth.
that's not what happened, on the surface. i have my doubts about
what's happening underneath. in reality, what was being said.....the
pretext...... everything happens with a pretext....the pretext was
very clear...... you've got 3 military services fighting for one
military budget. how do you carve up the military pie? you've heard
this a million times.

bell: sure.

burnes: you've heard this a million times from defense secretaries.
how you carve the pie up? well, if the army is building rockets and
the navy is building rockets and the air force is building
rockets...you have 3 rockets........3 development streams....3
r&ds......3 this and 3 this. no, combine them into one but you boys
in the military can't stop fighting with each other so i'm gonna tell
you what we're gonna do : we're gonna make a civilian agency that
will be responsible to the defense department for following military
missions into a civilian organized program. on the surface, that's
good old fashioned americana. that's the way it's supposed to work,
however, there was a much deeper and more sinister aspect to this.
one, it wasn't all that clean to begin with because who was part and
parcel of the management of this... ...it was the civilian
intelligence agencies. this is being run, in part, out of the cia.
how do we know this? bill, do you have any tangible proof? show me
one thing that you can show that the cia was somehow involved in nasa
to the point where it was utilizing nasa for it's own purposes. well,
i'll give you one tangible thing.

bell: please.

burnes: project corona. remember, as the colonel himself said on
primetime, you had american surveillance overflights of the soviet
union ..

bell: oh, yes.

burnes: you had them to the point, while we were development a
redundant system....which was satellite surveillance......but, we had
no military satellites at that point. we're talking the late 50's,
what did we have? nasa sending monkeys into space that looked really
cute on the movietone news.

bell: i recall.

burnes: what the movietone news didn't show you was that the cia went
to lockheed skunkworks and said to skunkworks "we're starting to get
a bead on our surveillance overflights." the colonel himself said
that one of the main reasons for u2 flights was to draw the soviet
surface- to-air missile fire to see when the missiles went
hot......when their radar went hot.....and could they shoot down our
planes. "we sacrificed a lot of pilots", those are his words on
primetime just a couple of years ago. this is documented. people
said, "oh, who is this guy saying this? who is this guy, corso?" they
found, in the national archives, that everything corso is saying is
documented in black and white and is at the eisonhower library, even
today. so, there you are. you have a civilian space agency which has
superseded the military space missions but who is running it? the cia
is putting satellites in a civilian mission, taking pictures of the
soviet union and showing they could do it. so, we know the cia was
involved in nasa, even in the very beginning. nasa was a way for the
cia to get control of the space program. so, the pretext was budget.
the pretext was competition but what happened when we had a nasa?
through a budget that had no congressional oversight, you had project
corona taking pictures of the soviet union. it was very laudable but,
of course, who was analyzing those photos? it wasn't the army....it
wasn't the navy.. ...it wasn't the air force. it was the cia which
then gave back false estimates. the point is that it was a
pretext.....the civilian space agency was a pretext for the real
advances that the military had already made in space missions. by the
time we time we were monkeying. ....no pun intended....with project
corona, in 1959.....on the drawing board was a full blown.....capable
of being funded......with it's own separate command structure.....a
military outpost on the moon. but, it was a military outpost on the
moon that was not just looking down on the planet earth but out into
orbital space because we were not just monitoring soviets, we were
monitoring extraterrestrial traffic. that's what the cia was trying
to keep from the american people.

bell: oh my god!

howe: and you know, art, at this point, one of the most germane
questions is, did president kennedy realize these facts that he just
outlined and could that have been part for the reason for that
extremely famous quote, "i want to take the cia and tear it into a
thousand pieces and cast it to the wind."?

bell: yes.

howe: now, mr. burnes is pointing to the colonel so here is colonel
corso.

bell: okay.

corso: i'm back. in 1962, i testified.....well, first they asked me
to testify about my 4 years at the white house and how policy was
made and run and the names. i turned them down. they came to my
house, even . senate internal security set up a committee on this and
the judiciary.

bell: yes sir.

corso: then the council called. i was still in uniform. i went up
there and he said "i want you to testify" and i said "no, i'm not
going to testify and you put it in the archives and it gathers dust.
for what reason, should i?" he leaned over...he was a big, gruff man
and he said "colonel, i'll subpoena you" and i said "go ahead,
subpoena. i could get 100 subpoenas, you can't make me talk if i
don't want to." he started to laugh and, from then on until he died,
we were great friends. so, he looked at me and said "someone like you
always wants something. what do you want?" "it's simple what i want.
i'll testify if you can promise me that you'll put it in the hands of
the kennedy brothers.....the president and the attorney general." he
said, "come up tomorrow." i came up the next day and went to meet
senator eastland , chairman of the judiciary. senator eastland told
me...he said "colonel, i promise you i'll put in their hands myself,
personally." i said "senator, call your committee. i'm ready to
testify." dirksen presided....keating was there.....mcclellan.....all
these powerful senators were there to hear this. i testified for 2
days. in front of the house committee, lately, i testified on the
missing prisoners of war though they won't release it, it's still top
secret, because it names the names in the cia. i told them i wanted
the testimony and they told me they couldn't give to me because they
had to protect the source. i said "wait a minute, i am the source and
i don't want to be protected" and the audience began to clap and the
newspaper men, even. this is what was going on. but, to get back to
the real story, about 2 weeks later i get a call from the pentagon
that says "the attorney general wants to see you." i go across the
bridge...i went over....and i went into attorney general robert
kennedy's office and he had my testimony.....2 volumes....on the desk
in front of him. so, first thing i said when i sat down was "attorney
general, if you and your brother think you make policy, you're sadly
mistaken." his answer was, "i know that, colonel. i read your
book....your testimony....but you and i have to discuss this more
thoroughly."

bell: colonel, uh.....

corso: just let me finish.

bell: certainly.

corso: so, during the course of the discussions i had with him....
because i went up more than once..... ufos came up. i told some of
the story to attorney general robert kennedy. now, i don't know
this....i can't verify it....it was his affair, not mine....i think
he discussed this with his brother, the president. so, that is the
story....i have to say.....of my relationship with the 2 kennedys
and, especially, attorney general robert kennedy. all i have to say
is i wish he had become president.

bell: colonel, how old are you now?

corso: 82.

bell: 82. colonel, how many other people are there, that you're aware
of, that could tell this story?

corso: i can't tell you the number because i lost track of a lot.
there is an agreement, even it's a code in the media and motion
pictures.....i think you know that.....we never reveal a source or
reveal someone's name unless we get their permission.

bell: so you may be one of the last?

corso: i may be. no, a lt. general called me....he was a colonel with
me...and he told me "phil, i know all about when you were head of the
committee to investigate the alignment of atoms." so, he is still
alive. as i say, i don't know. maybe in the group....the
loop.....even this gentlemen caller "you were in the loop, i wasn't."
he was a colonel then, also. he said "i know how close you were to
general trudeau." he said "i head some of the things you used to talk
about." so, how many of the 'loop', as he called it, are still alive?
i really don't know. i couldn't tell you. it's been 35...almost 40
years. i lost track. i heard that some of them died. some of them
were older than i was and i'm 82 years old.

bell: colonel, we're about out of time. it has been an honor, for
me , to speak with you. i think you're a patriotic person.

corso: well, thank you.

bell: colonel, thank you. if you'll hand the phone linda howe.

howe: art, don't you feel that, for the first time, we are hearing
honest voices from inside a portion of this government that is
beginning to explain all the questions we've been asking for the past
5 years.

bell: yes, linda, i do. i don't know what to say, after hearing all
this.....stunned!

howe: you know one thing.....a footnote....when i met the colonel, 2
nights ago, the first thing he said to me? he said linda howe "how
did you get all that classified material in your books? and how did
you do it alone?" he said "at least i had a gun!" (laughter) i think
part of this big story is that we've had this huge civilian curiosity
with so many people like the ones at roswell......this 50th
anniversary ....they knew....they have known....they had their hands
on. we have pushed. then there has been people like colonel corso,
who had a gentleman's agreement with an extraordinary general....who
did finally pass...but his order was for colonel corso to then tell
the story. now, we may begin to see that the civilian effort that's
been pushing forward..... ..

bell: maybe will break it all open. linda, we're flat out of time.

linda: alright, it's been great, art.

bell: it's a landmark program. thank you linda. thank you colonel and
please thank mr. burnes, as well. wow! alright folks, that's it.
that's a lot to think about, isn't it? good night.