Here's questions...

[soup]

I propose a law of one thread dedicated to questions, because the format of the Ra Materials seems largely related to questions and answers for one, and trivial as it may seem, questions can be as an artform in and of themselves.

Possibly this thread could be used for people to develop their skill at asking questions, i.e. those that may not be easily answered - and then others who feel compelled to serve others as best they can might offer answers in the form of offshoot threads which get copied and pasted from here.

In this way, such a question thread could grow quite fertile with seed thoughts - though not necessarily answers to such seeds. Of course a simple requirement of cooperative effort might be simply, to offer some question within this thread.

Please offer a question.

For example:

Many times in reading the Ra materials I get the impression that both the question and the answer were "channeled". There can be the impression that the one who asks the question is of lower density and so humbled by recieving an answer from one who seems of higher density, but is that necessarily true as a general rule? (I suggest this because on the other hand I feel as if the "beginner's mind" is to great advantage in learning new things.)

And another example:

In the growth of consciousness by reading the Ra Materials, I get a sense of a very beautiful, interconnected, and integrated coexistence of densities within my lifeform(s). Is the water that I drink and the air I breath of some lower density which as flowing through me become of higher density or is it just that they coexist, that and do the probiotic organisms i eat shift from lower to higher density as they get assimilated by my digestion - or do i go from higher to lower density as I digest them - where does life stop and start and is this analogous to densities of life higher that appear beyond my conscious comprehension (as locked it seems, within a distorted sense of space/time)?

[MarkM]

Sounds like a good idea, Soup. I would encourage anyone to ask their questions boldly and without reservation based on the worry of being thought of as less evolved. It is as much of an art to formulate a question as it is to formulate an answer. Every answer begets more questions, which beget more answers, in a never ending procession. So I suggest that because of this a question is never subordinate to an answer.

Your question regarding that which we eat and drink is an interesting one; the minerals and chemicals that make up the body exist in the red ray, or first density according to Ra, the food we eat is broken down for use by the body at this level, but then again, many tribal or aboriginal societies believe that you take on some essense of that which you eat on a spiritual level. Could there be some truth to this? I have always believed it is better to eat live food (fresh produce, etc.), feeling I benefit from the 'life force' it contains.

Now, does anyone have a question to this question:;)

When an individual ascends to forth density, and finds himself there for the first time, is their body in an adult form, or must they first go through a gestation period and then be 'born' as an infant? Are there children and parents, sisters, cousins and aunts? Ra says there is a need to eat, but is there a need to procreate? I don't recall this being addressed in the Ra material, please lead me to it if I have missed something on this topic.

-Mark

[Chris Hamilton]

When an individual ascends to forth density, and finds himself there for the first time, is their body in an adult form, or must they first go through a gestation period and then be 'born' as an infant? Are there children and parents, sisters, cousins and aunts? Ra says there is a need to eat, but is there a need to procreate? I don't recall this being addressed in the Ra material, please lead me to it if I have missed something on this topic.
-Mark

That is such an interesting question Mark. I think I would approach your question backwards and answer the procreation question first. LoO does discuss energy transfers at length, and indicates that all densities have some sort of energy transfer (sex to us of course in 3D). Fusion is another energy transfer in the higher densities, as an example. In all types of energy transfers, I would think that there is a possibility to create something from it, wouldn't you? I mean, in 3D, we don't always have children from our energy transfers, so I would think that would follow thru to the other densities and simply be a choice for the entities. They could if they really wanted to, but it is not necessary:). 3D, on the other hand, needs birth to bring physical beings into existence, but other densities may not.

As to what type vehicle we would use in 4D...I think it will be a light body, not really physical in the sense we know it. And, we will probably be able to manipulate that vehicle to how we want to look-lol, I like that theory the best. I don't believe we will begin as children unless someone wants to appear that way, but I think that in the beginning stages of 4D, we will be much more like 3D people than not because we aren't learned enough to be anything different. We will probably make beginning 4D resemble 3D for a while, imo. And, what with 4D some 4 million (?correct me if I'm wrong) years long, we would have alot of time to perfect the density of Love. Chris

[soup]

Thank you divine angel beings - for your interest here and replies.

I found an interesting excerpt in Law of One, Book 3, Session 71, page 159:
QUESTIONER: Then each entity is of a path that leads to one destination. This is like many, many roads that travel through many, many places but eventually merge into one large center. Is this correct?
RA: I am Ra. This is correct but somewhat wanting in depth of description. More applicable would be the thought that each entity contains within it all of the densities and sub-densities of the octave so that in each entity, no matter whither its choices lead it, its great internal blueprint is one with all others. Thusly its experiences will fall into the patterns of the journey back to the original Logos. This is done through free will but the materials from which choices can be made are one blueprint.

This morning i was acknowledging the Sun - pondering the idea that Seventh density resides within the Sun and felt as if a connection with the sunlight upon my skin - as if something as simple as that is evidence of containing some glint of higher density, contemplating that. Then this wave of interconnection swept over me as I also observed so many weeds also basking in the same light alongside of me, seeing weeds in that miraculous way. I wonder if anyone thinks its possible to freely shift attention upon any of the densities or sub-densities contained within their "entity" and so get a better appreciation of how it is with that density? Could this be a good use of free will in the context of obtaining deeper empathetic understanding?

I can't help but think of the sacred marriage as example of higher density procreation, i.e. the myth of Ptah, Sekhmet, with offspring Nefer-Tum who is born anew each morning from the lotus. I think from a conventional perspective this Nefer-Tum could be likened to a relationship renewed every day which has a life of its own that transcends the sum of its parts. From a higher density perspective it may actually contain qualities that transcend conventional concepts of space/time, and so difficult to describe. Given the idea that all densities are contained in each entity, is it possible that procreation occurs within an entities higher densities simultaneous to episodes of procreation within the entities lower densities?

Well that's not all, there's another question. This question relates to the concept of freewill in regards to the role it plays within the evolutionary process. It seems feasible that by adopting a focus of accelerated growth using free will that one could position oneself in circumstances such that there occurs experiences which tend to inhibit or immobilize one from further using ones freewill with such efficiency. So along this line of thought wandering occurs the possibility of one breaching one's own freewill, a sort of self enslavement so to speak. I wonder if this is a paradoxical crux that eventually toggles, say a 5th density negative, upon a path to serving others - a sort of reasoning that one can act as one's own worst enemy in a way that catalyzes a more fulfilling direction. Here a question could be, is there such a thing as "too much love" so much love that it seems to immobilize or inhibit another, or else so much love that it infringes freewill? Or else, is it possible that higher density negatives use love to entrap others by their own freewill?

Another question relates to detachment from outcome. There's a Ra passage that suggests part of the reason for the Ra contact is attempting to make reparations for some earlier goof ups. I think its late in Book 3. In one sense the nature of the contact seems unusual and uncommon and so in that sense there seems a sense of detachment, then in another sense seems the notion that Ra cares - to come and attempt contact in effort to attempt reparations in this way. It makes me wonder, do you think that Ra is always active making such reparations under different aliases all the time, or is Ra detached from outcome on some level in some way?

Thanks again, angel beings...

[soup]

I was reading book 3, the part where it was talking about the inefficient use of catalyst...then there was all this talk of Orion this and that...i started sneezing hysterically, i was having a major allergy attack. When i questioned consciously the synchronicity of that then i immediately calmed down. So a question seems, do you think that wordforms can influence thought forms and so can trigger allergy attacks?

[soup]

This is a question lingering from last week regarding potential in the context of two entities generating magnetic potentials that seem strongly attractive in a way they may merge and in that merging they have opportunity of experiencing a divine sense of the One creator. Okay so this question relates to managing this effect of generating attractive potentials: "do you think in the extreme sense of the effect or either perpetuating a state of very strong attractive magnetic potential or else perpetuating a state of very neutral potential contains elements which may tend to breach another's free will?"

Please contemplate this and give it some thought, i'm far from reaching any conclusion about it.

Of course a real life example might help. Take the example of a "trophy wife" who spends an extensive amount of time making herself look like a million dollars - does the reaction she trigger in others breach their free will, or manipulate it in ways that influence their behavior? Note that her intent may appear invisible to others though the net effect is one of a strong potential attraction.

[soup]

These questions have to do with word constructs, specifically command tenses which can contain cataytic impetus to action. Do you think that sharing word forms of which contain command tenses (i.e. do this, do that) are apt to violate another person's sense of free will?

In contrast to this approach might be a third person suggestion which encourages independant decision making, i.e. its possible one might do this or that. Note there is choice in both instances, though the approach seems very different in ways which may affect a person's attitude toward service.
In one instance a person is told what to do, in another they are not.

Do you think that care taken in requesting help could foster growth in another's solidarity in some way? How might this relate to the idea of Ra's "unmanifested being"?

A sense of leadership and command may tie in somehow to ideas of 4th density hierarchys, i.e. the pecking order. Could attention in this regard help to elevate one from say 4th density issues to those of 5th density?

[soup]

If the higher densities tend toward higher degrees of conscious awareness in an interconnective sense, could there be a preference for solitary experience, by contrast, from a catalyst standpoint - which tends to influence solitary existence? If so, what could be some reasons for solitude?

Of course there's the example of Christ who went alone into the desert and fasted for so long - it may be that experience was transformative in some way in a relatively short amount of time. Is there an element of efficiency?

When i mention influence, i suggest it as if a higher density interacting with a lower density. Another contrast here seems a concept of circumstance which the higher density may be detached from as existing in dimensions of space/time as opposed to time/space which also factors into this issue,
the lower density as caught in abstract illusions which influence behavior to a greater extent than a higher density may appreciate. Could a handicap of abstract illusion be a condition that solitude helps to remedy?

I imagine that it is easier to meditate in solitary conditions, and this might be a factor. Do you think that conventional means of interaction tend to influence non-meditative brain states which may be less conducive in some way or another? (Reading and writing may be example of this, and this may relate to the idea philosophizing seems an inferior path to that of love.)

[MarkM]

I have read and meditated on your questions, soup, and I might have succeeded in discerning a thought thread throughout, although I don't know if I can address the totality of it. I could be way off base or projecting my own thoughts onto yours.

To start with, meditation is a multi-faceted thing, it can be used whilst in nature to better appreciate the surrounding playing and interweaving of life, it can be used to join in a circle of meditating friends to experience a communion of mind and spirit, and it can be used in a completely solitary manner to quieten the rushing of the conscious mind to better discern the still voice within. In this sense I refer to what you might think of as channeling your own higher self, although this might necessarily infer channeling other selves as well, as the boundaries between beings is illusionary, and functionally more so in higher densities, which is where your own 'still voice within' resides.

Is it possible that a fourth density 'guide', for example, acting with with great compassion not yet steeped in wisdom might tend at times to lay it on a bit thick, so to speak, perhaps aiming at our heart chakra (green ray) with a lack of a balancing of energies focused into other energy centers in a disproportionate manner? Could this potentially be a source of discomfort to a third density being?

Maybe taking care in asking for help can alleviate this situation, perhaps asking for fifth or sixth density guardianship against unbalanced and/or inappropriate energetic transfers prior to not only meditation but inter-human affairs?

One's free will could concievably be violated to some extent by well meaning other selves or other selves lacking in development, sensitivity or wisdom. Another example of imbalance may involve a sexual relationship wherein one may value companionship primarily whereas the other is hoping for marriage, monogamy and promise of permanancy in the relationship. A perpetual tension may ensue, with neither wanting to end the relationship but neither being at peace with the needs of the other. Is one infringing on the free will of another here? The wealthy husband fallen prey to the gold-digging wife may be being duped, but rather than his free will being violated he may just require playing around with yellow and green energies in order to grow. On the other hand, those awakening to the ways of love are often easily duped. I won't say that you should or need to ask for protection from these things but you may find it helpful.

It's also possible that one may decide before incarnation to enter states of compromised free will as a way of meeting that which was created in a previous incarnation. For one still largely behind the veil of forgetfulness, this may seem unfair, but this may also be catalyst for seeking to understand better the mysteries of life.

Do you think that much 'apparent' transgression of free will might actually be the free will of the pre-incarnative entity? Perhaps in this way the First Distortion (law of free will) may not really be being violated.

[soup]

Thanks for sharing something about these questions...

The pre-incarnate experience reminds me of the idea that there may be some soul signature or spectrum with strengths and weaknesses. It may be a preincarnate desire is to evolve through experience to strengthen the soul spectrum closer to that of white light (containing all the colors) in a relatively short amount of time. Its difficult for me to imagine such a soul signature remaining static during the incarnate experience, it seems dynamic and ever changing. Possibly the circumstances conducive to growth are naturally precipitated by the related weaknesses in signature. "Do you think that a general preincarnate intent could be to evolve the "soul's signature" by way of experience?" A follow on idea may relate to "detachment of outcome, as if there's elements of best efforts involved. "Are we giving our best effort congruent to our pre incarnate soul intent?"

My impression of fourth density work relates to "vibes" felt beyond spoken word that relate to power, position, control, hierarchy and so forth. My bias of this comes from observation within the power ploys of the corporate world, i.e. the desire to climb the corporate ladder. Here an interpretation of fourth density reality could be a world dominated by corporations and the intrinsic hierarchys that they run upon - i.e. influences beyond spoken word. "Could the transformation of the world to 4d be complemented by the evolution of corporations built upon hierarchal structures?"

I see the exaggeration of "the wealthy man and his trophy wife" as a component to the American Dream - a sort of herd mentality social influence that people subconsciously contend with (i.e. within media and advertising); though in the context of energetic study, this model seems to contain a inherent limitation by way of the propensity of causing a green ray blockage,
(i.e. by way of the materialistic/possesive natures of that relationship.)
"Do you think that Ra's mention of an early advanced South American culture was free of such limiting subconsious influencing models?"


Again, thank you - for sharing reflections upon these questions...

[MarkM]

Earlier in this thread I asked a question regarding procreation in 4D, to whit, are we born as infants in our appearance there? Yesterday I came across the following Ra quote:

Question: So, the basic reason for having bisexual reproduction was to increase the opportunity of the experience of the One Creator? Is that correct?

RA: That is not merely correct but is the key to that which occurs in all densities. (B2, 28)

So maybe we'll be 'born again' yet, huh?;)

Mark

[Chris Hamilton]

You know, you can read this material umpteen times and miss the one-liners. Great find Mark! I'm thinking tho that 'birth' may be more like symbiosis than anything else in the other densities-you know, like going back to the beginning with the omeba or paramesium splitting:). 3D still does that but within the physical vehicle. Other densities may just split. What a thought, lol. Just like an earthquake. wow:eek: Chris

[MarkM]

Question: Is physical disease and illness rather widespread on a 3rd density negative planet before harvest into 4th density negative?

RA: They are less likely to be found as 4th density negative begins to be a probable choice of harvest. Much more care is taken of the physical body as well as more discipline being offered to the self mentally. This is an orientation of great self-interest and self-discipline.

Mark here: this is a rare reference within the Ra material to third density negative planets. Ra does mention elsewhere that there are a very few 3rd density planets which are members of the Orion group. With 3rd density planets being behind the veil and being the forum in which 3rd density beings make their choice regarding service to others vs. service to self, I wonder what criterion is used to determine what the positive/negative polarity of a given 3D planet is.

Earth is certainly a mix in this regard; although a minority may be harvestable into 4th density positive, I gather that Earth is/has been quantitatively positive in it's orientation. Perhaps it is due to there being a very small percentage of 4th density negative harvestable people here that precludes us from being 3D negative at present?

Those who are 95% dedicated towards service to self, graduate to a 4D negative planet. Ra says that less than 50% service to others must repeat 3D experience upon a different 3D planet. Given that Ra tells us that there are 3D negative planets, what determines who goes there? Is it a percentage issue again?

Maybe in the same way that Earth (despite Ra's realizing that this was in error) became as a receptacle for disparate groups from other 3D planets which saw the majority of their human denizens graduate into 4D positive or negative, are 3D negative planets a receptacle for those mainly from a multiple of other 3D positive planets who are not quite 95% service to self but are miles away from 50% polarity?

Or is it that any 3D planet has the potential to 'fall under the jackboot' so to speak? I wonder if there is an issue of how much help a given 3D planet can be afforded by higher densities? (case in point, the self destruction of Mars).

I don't recall if this is addressed anywhere in the five books of Ra, it's been a while since I read the complete works. Has anyone anything to offer in these regards?

[soup]

Planetary wise I consider the Earth Moon System a duet which fosters energetic exchange, i.e. difficult to be self serving alone in that relationship. It's difficult for me to imagine a planet sustaining life without relationship to a star, which lends an exaggerated sense of "separation" as relating to a negative path. Fundamentally this may offer clues to the advantage of a positive path - relationship allows for tides of energetic exchange in ways that enhance the life experience.

[soup]

I think that some people might consider "One God" as an individuated entity that is distinct from their own individuality. Another possibility may be that "One God" is indistinguishable from any sense of individuality because there is that possibility of permeation of that "One God" throughout "all things." Hence, is it possible that there is a correspondance between some notion of "One God" and "The Law of One"?

[soup]

I was contemplating the idea of pyramid angle as laying on top of probably billions of grains of sand at the beach - was wondering if within so many grains how many were oriented in the right way to spiral light up in my direction. So i then considered the idea of spending too much time atop pyramids as reaching the "overcharged battery" condition. Do you think there are natural examples in nature where the pyramid principle is at work,
i.e. is this one reason of how people rejuvenate at the beach?

[soup]

I was contemplating the idea that for many people there may be much of their mind that lives dormant and inactive. Now, with so much technology making information widely available - it seems as if the larger flux of information available could act as a stimulus which activates one's dormant portion of the mind.

In this context, "a shift of the ages" may relate to humanity shifting the extent of their brain activation. So in effect, is a human race running on low percentage brain utilization distinct from a similar human race running on high percentage brain utilization?

A related question may relate to brain development and mode of operation, i.e. the percentage of "brain time" related to the "brain wave spectrum."
Similarly, is a race of humans running predominantly delta/theta brainwaves distinct from a race of humans running predominantly alpha/beta brainwaves?

Of course this could lead to the concept of evolutionary advantage - does a human running on high percentage brain utilization with predominantly delta/theta brainwaves have an evolutionary advantage over counterparts, why or why not?

[soup]

I was contemplating the matter of love, specifically the notion of "real" love in the manner of the Greek words: Eros, Ludus, Storge, Mania, Pragma and Agape - how people approach acts of love differently and how the experience of love can seem to change over stages in a relationship.

It may be that the act of attempting to understand the various natures of love may be a literal example of balancing love/wisdom which may enable a person to sustain a higher level of vibration as if a conscious act of fostering "ascension" in some way.

In some respects, I wonder about the "sub-octaves" of the 5th density, if they are related somehow to such efforts, to learning about love.

Do you think that there seems a gender bias (in a general sense) in this regard, or in other words do you think that in order to progress through fifth density efficiently, that one gender has advantage over another?

[soup]

There's a theory of Information Processing related to information bandwidth, that is with larger the bandwidth more information can be transfered at higher rates.

Related to this seems the bandwidth of a human being, and the various means of transfering information available to a human being. It may be that from a meditation state, there can be an abundance of information transfered that escapes the attention of the conscious mind.

Of course there can seem approaches where it feels as if the head is held in a clamp as an intense ressonation takes place - followed by a sort of an intuitive clarity about things that may not have been apparent before.

I wonder if part of a person's spiritual development relates to the crystalization of the pineal in a way which higher bandwidth information transfers can take place. Do you think there could be some truth to this?

[MarkM]

I think that some people might consider "One God" as an individuated entity that is distinct from their own individuality. Another possibility may be that "One God" is indistinguishable from any sense of individuality because there is that possibility of permeation of that "One God" throughout "all things." Hence, is it possible that there is a correspondance between some notion of "One God" and "The Law of One"?

It has been said that at various junctures throughout history, the Law of One has been given to mankind, but the importance of all inclusiveness has soon fallen by the wayside, and the knowledge hidden from the masses by the ruling priesthood/elite.

The concept of 'one god' distinct from and separate from its creation may have been the expected digression, this having been foisted on the common people, having been made to feel inferior to the creator and separate, and an expendable fragment of creation so easily subject to damnation (this being a way to keep the people from realizing the power and inherent divinity that is their birthright).

In this way people are perhaps tricked into looking outside of themselves for spiritual salvation and instead embracing duality, and believing that it is 'blasphemous to suspect an inner divine nature and direct connection with the creator, or an identifying of one's self as being 'one' with the creator and with all there is.

The Law of One seems to represent the potential undoing of any ruling elite, the great secret they fear us discovering as this would break the spell of fear/control they have had over us, rendering them powerless.

Do you think that perhaps even in the present day the effects of this deception are still ongoing; with so much on the internet, for example, many seekers are distracted from looking within, endlessly searching for something without, in an effort to pull something closer into themselves, to lessen the feeling of separation?

[MarkM]

I study a lot. For many years I have. I have come up against, as have many of you, the most insidious and artful use of deception and disinformation tactics that have ever been employed against normal, seeking people perhaps anywhere in this planet's history.

What do we have to counter this; the common human?

How does one discern truth amongst the multi-layered and deep stratums of crap that seem to bury any foray into a search for real understanding of the limit/fringes of what really transpires on this planet in terms of discerning the real from the distorted?

How effective can we be and how far can we go, as individual persons, in the quest to find truth, in the face of such a concerted effort by the spin priests to keep us in perpetual mystery?

In the forum of outer seeking, it seems that when a real truth is displayed, it is instantly buried by an avalanche of near truth, not so near truths, and the proverbial red herrings offered so as to create a line-up of imposter truths so convoluted and opaque that, on the surface of things, it is impossible to discern the real from the attempts to lead astray. The most astute and truth-loving of us will be confused by the workings of those who have taken the art of obfuscation to heights unimaginable by those who have not practiced these dark arts for millenia.

There is a place where truth is inviolable. It is only to be found inside you.

I exhort you all to place your main emphasis of focus of truth-seeking only as pertains to your own inner life, loves and passions, accepting and embracing equally the dark and light within your own personal lives, in relation to your daily issues, struggles, insights, and loves. Your own 'shadow' issues are much more amenable to examination and illumination than the things you encounter in the arena of worldly intrigue.

It's your own issues you need to clear through, not the issues of 'black ops' and all the rest.

Love. Inviolable. Your love cannot be impugned by the darkness. Find reasons to love, forgive, and cherish life with gratitude, and see that nothing can act to create confusion against the backdrop of unconditional love of all that exists, no matter how seemingly contrary to you something may seem, or how unacceptable a condition may seem. The more you love and accept everything unconditionally, and realize that all that happens is for the greater becoming of us all, the less you will feel the need to dwell on worldly intrigue for your spiritual edification.

-Mark

[Art]

Well done Mark. :D

[lucia]

Hi mark,You wrote exactly what I have been thinking recently I would never have been able to express my thoughts with the eloquence & beauty as you have managed to do.Sometimes seeking truth is like travelling through a sort of labyrinth of distortion,I went full circle from spiritual awakening to total confusion it was only when I turned inwards that I found peace again.
Thanks for sharing your style of writing I find profoundly pesonal and emotionally evocative,perhaps there is a book in you? If so let me know I would love to read it!
Keep on posting-Lucia.

[MarkM]

soup, I feel a little concerned about your sudden absence from the forum. It's not the same without you. :confused: I hope you're ok.

Mark

[Michelle]

Yes, Mark, that is absolutely right on, and you did articulate so well what seems to be going on inside of us. It is that Love we find as we seek it, that incredible vibration, and to keep it growing, and concentrating on nurturing that alone, and thats what we Can do, and that is in essence what we are here to do, and I believe it is actually doing a whole heck of alot!!! The other night I got so filled up with loving vibration from singing my kids to sleep, that I kept singing long after they were content in my arms.., and I suddenly saw beautiful colors, ones that stayed, as tears rolled down my face. It was just soo beautiful, the profound simplicity of Love, and reaching for it. Theres more I saw that I was blessed to witness, but words just soo get in the way, and I know you all know what I mean in your own precious moments. I just wanna say, Hey, out there.., we are connected and making a difference in the true cosmic sense everytime we feel that inner truth, and thanks for being caring great individuals!

Love...
michelle

[MarkM]

Thanks for sharing your style of writing I find profoundly pesonal and emotionally evocative,perhaps there is a book in you? If so let me know I would love to read it!
Keep on posting-Lucia.

Funny you should mention this, Lucia, as this has been in the back of my mind for a while.

In fact, thoughts of writing a book have been with me for years, although not with any serious intent, as I never wrote anything before joining the DC Forum in April.

Maybe I'll write a little wanderers' travel guide. Maybe whimsical but thoughtful; it would have to be in some contrast to Scott Mandelker's 'From Elsewhere'.

Maybe I'll start keeping a journal of ideas. This forum, also, is great food for thought, and is certainly inspirational!

Oh, and mods, I promise if I do this, (still only vaguely thinking about it) I won't self-promote on the forums!:)

Mark

[lucia]

Hi mark,
May I make a suggestion, a good way to start writing is to simply write make writing a habit.Many say write about what you know, I say write about what you care about.
Take a pad and write down what you've been feeling the last week or so you may suprise yourself. Peace Lucia.

[MarkM]

Thank you for that, Lucia, I will remember (and hopefully soon) act upon your advice!:D

love, Mark

[addalight]

Thnkyou M ark for so eloquently stating what I strugle with and reminding me to trust myself. Feel free to share how the book is going.

[Cassie Priam]

I have just finished Book 1 and am reading Book 2.
The Ra material is fascinating and answering so many of the questions
I have had for a long time. I have read many metaphysical books
over the years, and don't know how I missed the Law of One books!

I am confused by a number of points so far:

1. Seniority and incarnation
Ra indicates that only senior souls are able to choose the circumstances of the next incarnation. The clear implication is that younger souls have much less choice, or perhaps have the next life mapped out by others. However I had thought that all souls had freedom to choose the next life. Perhaps someone can clarify this for me.

2. Ascension to 4th level by negative or service to self.
Ra states that positive and negative entities can rise from 3rd to 4th level. Both those who are dark and light, focus on self or others. This seems to contradict the notion that only those who are other directed and more evolved spiritually will progress. I understand Ra's point that there must be polarity, both light and dark for the system to function properly. I do wonder however, how a dark soul with total focus on self rises to higher levels? What makes them different from dark 3rd levels?

Thank you in advance for anyone who can answer these questions.

Cassie

[daresh]

1. Seniority and incarnation
Ra indicates that only senior souls are able to choose the circumstances of the next incarnation. The clear implication is that younger souls have much less choice, or perhaps have the next life mapped out by others. However I had thought that all souls had freedom to choose the next life. Perhaps someone can clarify this for me.

The younger souls are not aware enough yet about their own progression they are not fully self conscious yet. From what I understand Most of the time they are still quite influenced by their previous 2D environment which is the group thinking so it happens more automatically with less self decision.


2. Ascension to 4th level by negative or service to self.
Ra states that positive and negative entities can rise from 3rd to 4th level. Both those who are dark and light, focus on self or others. This seems to contradict the notion that only those who are other directed and more evolved spiritually will progress. I understand Ra's point that there must be polarity, both light and dark for the system to function properly. I do wonder however, how a dark soul with total focus on self rises to higher levels? What makes them different from dark 3rd levels?

Remember 3D is the dimension of choice, choice between dark or light, none of these choice is better then the other in unity as unity gave us these choices. Eventually we will all go back to unity and positivity but in the meanwhile some can choose to believe totally in seperation. Once somebody has made his choice for STS in 3D and is STS for 95% of the time he graduates 3D and goes to a 4D negative planet. He evolves on a negative way... To be able to become more apparently seperated... even more STS. Eventually at the 6D level, the level of unity everything comes back because light and dark needs to be balanced an integrated.

greets,
Filip

[billybobbutterball]

I have just finished Book 1 and am reading Book 2.
The Ra material is fascinating and answering so many of the questions
I have had for a long time. I have read many metaphysical books
over the years, and don't know how I missed the Law of One books!

I am confused by a number of points so far:

[snip]

2. Ascension to 4th level by negative or service to self.
Ra states that positive and negative entities can rise from 3rd to 4th level. Both those who are dark and light, focus on self or others. This seems to contradict the notion that only those who are other directed and more evolved spiritually will progress. I understand Ra's point that there must be polarity, both light and dark for the system to function properly. I do wonder however, how a dark soul with total focus on self rises to higher levels? What makes them different from dark 3rd levels?

Thank you in advance for anyone who can answer these questions.

Cassie


Hi, Cassie. Filip gave you some good answers.

Be assured that you are at a level where you are inputing much of your current adventures -- or mis-adventures, as it might seem at times! As you have probably read, a downside of "let me do it mommy" is that entities oft-time -- in their enthusiasm for the coming project -- bite off more catalyst lessons than can be easily chewed much less assimilated. Don't forget that we are never alone but have ties to our so-called higher selves, and then we are usually affiliated with group souls such as make up memory complexes like the Ra. Being apparently alone is largely the province of those of advanced, negative, self-serving polarity...and even those guys/gals have their future selves located as positives in 7th density. Go figure that!

It might help to think of the 'location' of the densities as being spaced up and down on a vertical fire pole with a separating floor plate at a neutral middle location. The positive densities go 'up' from this plate, while the negative ones go 'down'. Of course, in actuality, there is no real spatial dimension involved...nor time either, for that matter -- or non matter as may be the case ... : :p

Now I'm getting confused myself! :confused: Thanks a lot! ...:)

Say, Cassie, if you haven't read the Ra material Study Guide that might be a good course to do before further pursuing the rather loosely organized source material. You can also pursue questions by using the search engine at LLresearch. Lots of neat stuff.

Please take all of the above with a grain of salt. I'm merely a struggling student myself and thus my opinions and observations concerning the Ra material have no authority whatsoever.

best, billybombed

[twva]

1. Seniority and incarnation
Ra indicates that only senior souls are able to choose the circumstances of the next incarnation. The clear implication is that younger souls have much less choice, or perhaps have the next life mapped out by others. However I had thought that all souls had freedom to choose the next life. Perhaps someone can clarify this for me.
Good question. This quote: "there are those directly under the Guardians who are responsible for the incarnation patterns of those incarnating automatically, that is, without conscious self-awareness of the process of spiritual evolution" makes me think that awareness of spiritual evolution must be one of the things that third-density entities learn. Until they do, I guess they're not ready to map out their next life.

2. Ascension to 4th level by negative or service to self.
Ra states that positive and negative entities can rise from 3rd to 4th level. Both those who are dark and light, focus on self or others. This seems to contradict the notion that only those who are other directed and more evolved spiritually will progress. I understand Ra's point that there must be polarity, both light and dark for the system to function properly. I do wonder however, how a dark soul with total focus on self rises to higher levels? What makes them different from dark 3rd levels?

I don't think "the notion that only those who are other directed and more evolved spiritually will progress" comes from Ra, does it?

Ra states that "the necessity for graduation to fourth density is an ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator" and also that "in this density an increase in the serving of others or the serving of self will almost inevitably increase the ability of an entity to enjoy an higher intensity of light".

Another way to think of it is, as Filip mentioned, that the negative path is the path of separation. If an entity can succeed in separating itself more and more completely from the thoughts, wishes, hopes, and desires of others -- from any fellow-feeling at all; if it is able to manipulate others in more and more "exquisite propriety" then it is indeed ready for the next step in its journey back to the Creator.

[Chris Hamilton]

I have just finished Book 1 and am reading Book 2.
I am confused by a number of points so far:

I think this may be your first problem :) . Since books 2 thru 4 seem to clarify (or muddle some people think) the first book, I think that the questions you have will probably be answered as you read further. Also, as suggested by others, the study guide here on DC can help. LoO was rather scattered in its answers, because the questioner (Don Elkins) wasn't quite sure what to ask next:) This was a first, after all, in channelling experiments in the 80's. So, subjects were discussed in all 4 books with increasing complexity, and it seems scattered without the study guide.

Ra indicates that only senior souls are able to choose the circumstances of the next incarnation. The clear implication is that younger souls have much less choice, or perhaps have the next life mapped out by others. However I had thought that all souls had freedom to choose the next life. Perhaps someone can clarify this for me.

Ok, I looked at this alot, because I knew there was something that was 'distorted' in your interpretation (hah, play on words!). Anyway, I figured out what it was tonight: it is the word "senior". Souls, in the current LoO interpretation , are of time/space, not space/time (tmva can chime in here as he is an expert) I believe. There is no heirarchy, except for the souls vibration. The vibration doesn't make a soul 'senior' to another. It is difficult for 3D to understand this. The soul's vibration simply IS, and they end up where they are most comfortable on the light-vibrational pattern. If your vibration is within the 3D pattern, that is where you will end up, and you will reincarnate to learn more love that will increase your vibration.

Ra states that positive and negative entities can rise from 3rd to 4th level. Both those who are dark and light, focus on self or others. This seems to contradict the notion that only those who are other directed and more evolved spiritually will progress. I understand Ra's point that there must be polarity, both light and dark for the system to function properly. I do wonder however, how a dark soul with total focus on self rises to higher levels? What makes them different from dark 3rd levels?

See, you are asking the questions that are answered in the other books :) Your mind is already jumping ahead to the more complex answers (good going!). However, briefly, the dark soul rises because they manipulate the three lower earthly chakras, and use the heart chakra sparingly to manipulate. Lightbearers, however, embrace the heart chakra and balance the three lower chakras in order to rise to that higher vibration. Dark souls have an extremely low vibration (or extremely high negative vibration-I'm not too understanding of that concept yet) to go to 4th density, whereas light bearers maintain a higher balanced vibration to get there. Rationally, to pass to 4th, you need alot of unconditional love going for you (I think we are all still working on that). This decidedly increases your vibration alot.

I hope this shows you that you need to read the rest of the books :p I know everyone else has had great answers, and I hope my viewpoint has helped too. Take care, Chris

[Cassie Priam]

The younger souls are not aware enough yet about their own progression they are not fully self conscious yet. From what I understand Most of the time they are still quite influenced by their previous 2D environment which is the group thinking so it happens more automatically with less self decision.
greets,
Filip

Thank you filip for your responses. Yes that makes total sense, 2Ds most likely are not ready for independent life charting in the in between lives state. Their guides must be assisting them to a large extent.

Cassie

[Cassie Priam]

Billy: Thank you for your comments. I didn't realize that there is a study guide, I am going to pursue that, thank you!
Cassie

[Cassie Priam]

Chris thank you very much for your answers, and yes I think I better just keep reading! I am always guilty of jumping ahead and wanting answers when I need to be patient and let the material unfold.

I found your answer about dark vs light soul evolution very interesting and it does answer my question. I just had not thought about dark entities being able to ascend to higher levels, but I do understand why. I just didn't get the how, but all the answers I have rec'd are helping to sort it all out.

Thanks !

Cassie

[Cassie Priam]

Good question. This quote: "there are those directly under the Guardians who are responsible for the incarnation patterns of those incarnating automatically, that is, without conscious self-awareness of the process of spiritual evolution" makes me think that awareness of spiritual evolution must be one of the things that third-density entities learn. Until they do, I guess they're not ready to map out their next life.

Yes I think that is correct, it makes total sense.


I don 't think "the notion that only those who are other directed and more evolved spiritually will progress" comes from Ra, does it?

No it was just the belief I held prior to reading the Ra material. I can see things are a bit more complex than I realized!

Another way to think of it is, as Filip mentioned, that the negative path is the path of separation. If an entity can succeed in separating itself more and more completely from the thoughts, wishes, hopes, and desires of others -- from any fellow-feeling at all; if it is able to manipulate others in more and more "exquisite propriety" then it is indeed ready for the next step in its journey back to the Creator.

Yes this cleared it up for me, the explanations have been very helpful!
Thank you everyone!
Cassie

[Cassie Priam]

I think an interesting point is the fact that Ra is learning and evolving through the process of assisting Earth. Ra admits that it was naive and overly optimistic at times when trying to help the entities on this planet. So it has learned and grown as well.

Cassie

[johnasmodeus]

Dark souls have an extremely low vibration (or extremely high negative vibration-I'm not too understanding of that concept yet) to go to 4th density, whereas light bearers maintain a higher balanced vibration to get there. Rationally, to pass to 4th, you need alot of unconditional love going for you (I think we are all still working on that). This decidedly increases your vibration alot.


The way I've come to understand it, the "dark" souls are more similar to the "light" souls than they are to those in the "undecided" category. Both have developed unconditional love to a high degree; the only difference is the object of that love. But even this is more or less the same thing - the self.

"Dark" souls love the self very strongly and purely. "Light" souls love the self just as strongly and purely; but the catch here is that they have learned to recognize others (what Ra calls "otherselves") as their own being. As part of themselves. Thus they, too, love the self.

So dark and light souls are more or less equivalent. But we often imagine that the light souls are higher than the dark souls, or more evolved, when actually they are not necessarily so. This is an easy trap to fall into.

[twva]

I think an interesting point is the fact that Ra is learning and evolving through the process of assisting Earth. Ra admits that it was naive and overly optimistic at times when trying to help the entities on this planet. So it has learned and grown as well.

I agree.

I was thinking about this and it struck me that it might be odd that a sixth-density entity would concern itself directly with a third-density planet. After all, Ra says that negative fifth-density entities almost always send their fourth-density minions to do the work that seems to them to need doing. I would expect that to be would be the normal run of things for aid from positive sources as well, though of course the fourth-density love-workers would not be considered minions. And yet Ra says that they and two other sixth-density social memory complexes intervened on earth to the extent of building pyramids in Egypt, Atlantis, and South America.

It's also interesting that Ra, a sixth-density entity, presumably having mastered the density of wisdom, would have taken so many actions that they now consider to have been unwise. Whatever they learned in fifth density, it apparently didn't include how to deal with troublesome third-density planets.

[Cassie Priam]

Yes I am understanding that the concepts I took for granted
are much more complex. I had just hoped that the dark souls
weren't coming into the 4D switchover. But it looks like they will
be there too.

Thank you for the reply!

Cassie

[charles obscure]

Yes I am understanding that the concepts I took for granted
are much more complex. I had just hoped that the dark souls
weren't coming into the 4D switchover. But it looks like they will
be there too.

Thank you for the reply!

Cassie

The dark souls will be in 4th density negative, not 4th density positive which this planet is going into 2012...

Positives and negatives take seperate paths into unity, they do not share the same space/time or time/space until 6th density at which point there is no longer the seperate polarities.

[MarkM]

Cassie, Ra tells us that those at or above 95% service to self in third density will 'graduate' to a fourth density negative planet, into what seems to be a great ongoing struggle to establish a master-slave type pecking order, or hierarchical structure.

Those who have not yet polarized either towards STO or STS (i.e., those between 5% and 50% service to others, presumably), will incarnate upon another third density planet, like Earth has been until now.

Those whom have attained 51% service to others will follow Earth into fourth density.

From the beginning of fourth density until the sixth, when the two paths must merge, those of positive polarity and those of negative polarity are separated, and no incursions into fourth density positive by those of the negative realms will be possible, and disharmony on Earth shall be virtually impossible.:)

-Mark

[Cassie Priam]

QUOTE=johnasmodeus;24037]
The way I've come to understand it, the "dark" souls are more similar to the "light" souls than they are to those in the "undecided" category. Both have developed unconditional love to a high degree; the only difference is the object of that love. But even this is more or less the same thing - the self.

So dark and light souls are more or less equivalent. But we often imagine that the light souls are higher than the dark souls, or more evolved, when actually they are not necessarily so. This is an easy trap to fall into .[/QUOTE]

Yes that was one a very interesting and important point in the Ra material I thought. It makes sense.
Cassie

[Cassie Priam]

The dark souls will be in 4th density negative, not 4th density positive which this planet is going into 2012...

Positives and negatives take seperate paths into unity, they do not share the same space/time or time/space until 6th density at which point there is no longer the seperate polarities.


Do the 4D negatives go to a separate planet? This makes me happier, that is assuming I am going to make harvest and land in 4D positive! :)
Thank you for the clarification!

Cassie

[Cassie Priam]

I will stop asking so many questions and keep reading, but there is one point I can't make sense of.....

Ra says as part of its own evolution it took on Earth as a project to assist in harvest. Ra asked for permission to do this from the Saturn Council which governs the affairs of Earth, and the Council granted that permission.

Ra then attempted to help earth by sharing knowledge with the ancient Egyptians and then the people of Atlantis, which backfired as both groups abused the knowledge and Atlantis even destroyed itself with the information.

Ra admits several times that it was naive, and that compassion must be tempered with wisdom, which it gained though this experience?

What I cannot understand is WHY the mistakes happened in the first place.
Certainly this cannot be the first 3D planet in need of help? Was not Ra familiar with how difficult 3D planets can be? Or was Earth a particularly tough planet?

And why did the Saturn council allow a plan that would not work? I am assuming that they asked for the particular strategies prior to authorization?

And certainly after the Martians were transplanted here after destroying their own planet, Ra and the Council should have had an inkling of what they were up against?

I am in health care and am used to a standard of care, safeguards, adequate supervision and chain of command, etc. Certainly Ra is indicating that the spirit world is very organized and efficient. Then how did Ra's problems occur?

I suppose it is possible that there is total free will and the council gives a great deal of latitude, even if they know the plan will result in disaster?

Cassie PS I am finished with books I and II and have the rest ordered, cannot wait til they arrive!

[charles obscure]

In response to Cassie

- yes 4th and 5th density negative inhabit different planets than 4th and 5th density positive :)

- as far as the Ra plan to help, it was NOT one of these things that they knew ahead of time would fail. The creator gives 3rd density beings free will to make their own decisions, only after these decisions are made do the results of the decisions become known. The decision to use the knowledge that was given to us by Ra for destructive purposes was completely the free will of the incarnate 3rd density entities! If everything was known by Ra and could be controlled it would cause an energy blockage of a magical nature...this is not their intention only to give us a more effective manner in which to polarize. Though the plan didnt work as intended, the end result is regardless - more catalyst, and more effective polarization. Those things which often seem to us as 'bad' or 'negative' are often the things that bring on the most insight, growth, fortitude and wisdom. This is the metaphor of lucifer as the light bringer, for lucifer is just a part of ourselves, a vital part of something already perfected. All is well, all is perfect. There are no mistakes.

[Cassie Priam]

I agree.

I was thinking about this and it struck me that it might be odd that a sixth-density entity would concern itself directly with a third-density planet. After all, Ra says that negative fifth-density entities almost always send their fourth-density minions to do the work that seems to them to need doing. I would expect that to be would be the normal run of things for aid from positive sources as well, though of course the fourth-density love-workers would not be considered minions. And yet Ra says that they and two other sixth-density social memory complexes intervened on earth to the extent of building pyramids in Egypt, Atlantis, and South America.

It's also interesting that Ra, a sixth-density entity, presumably having mastered the density of wisdom, would have taken so many actions that they now consider to have been unwise. Whatever they learned in fifth density, it apparently didn't include how to deal with troublesome third-density planets.


Yes Twva, I had the same thoughts as well, and see my post below where I discuss this issue further.

I think Ra attempts to explain it a bit by saying that being so long in harmony
made it unprepared for the task of helping a 3D planet. (I don't have the exact Ra quote for that, sorry, but that is my memory of the explanation.)

It poses a conundrum of sorts in that for higher level entities to evolve they must provide service to lower level entities. But the higher level entities begin to become etherically rarefied to the point that they are unable to connect to the lower levels in a way that is helpful, and in fact may be harmful.

Hence it makes much more sense to send in 4D or 5D to help 3D. And then the 6D can back up and support the 4/5D in their efforts.

The only other way to do it, is to send 5 and 6D as incarnate beings, send them down to the planet personally to help. Hence I think the Wanderers, who have the higher level energies but are down in the trenches. That makes sense. Of course the risk there is that the incarnate higher level being will forget the mission and get trapped in the lower density and the karmic wheel, and be unable to do any good. So it might be a total waste of a being.

A tricky business isn't it? Next time Ra can save itself a lot of time and trouble by just asking some of us here on Earth for help. We call tell Ra the ins and outs of this planet and how bad it is. :(

Cassie

[Cassie Priam]

In response to Cassie

- yes 4th and 5th density negative inhabit different planets than 4th and 5th density positive :)

- as far as the Ra plan to help, it was NOT one of these things that they knew ahead of time would fail. The creator gives 3rd density beings free will to make their own decisions, only after these decisions are made do the results of the decisions become known. The decision to use the knowledge that was given to us by Ra for destructive purposes was completely the free will of the incarnate 3rd density entities! If everything was known by Ra and could be controlled it would cause an energy blockage of a magical nature...this is not their intention only to give us a more effective manner in which to polarize. Though the plan didn't work as intended, the end result is regardless - more catalyst, and more effective polarization. Those things which often seem to us as 'bad' or 'negative' are often the things that bring on the most insight, growth, fortitude and wisdom. This is the metaphor of lucifer as the light bringer, for lucifer is just a part of ourselves, a vital part of something already perfected. All is well, all is perfect. There are no mistakes.

On a spiritual level I of course agree with you. That all as it is meant to be, and all is grist for the learning mill. And it terms of free will the Council may have allowed Ra to learn some lessons as well as Earth.

On the other hand from a practical standpoint, the whole situation suggests a certain lack of sophistication that surprises me. Given how efficient and highly organized the spirit world is, I would assume a more strategic intervention, and better planned one.

Here we have Earth at a critical juncture in time, going from 3D to 4D and it is not looking like a good Harvest. I just would have thought there would have been better planning and forethought in the task.

Next time Ra might want to include some input from those of us
living Earth. We could have given it a head's up on the rather difficult nature of its task. :(

Cassie

[charles obscure]

On a spiritual level I of course agree with you. That all as it is meant to be, and all is grist for the learning mill. And it terms of free will the Council may have allowed Ra to learn some lessons as well as Earth.

On the other hand from a practical standpoint, the whole situation suggests a certain lack of sophistication that surprises me. Given how efficient and highly organized the spirit world is, I would assume a more strategic intervention, and better planned one.

Here we have Earth at a critical juncture in time, going from 3D to 4D and it is not looking like a good Harvest. I just would have thought there would have been better planning and forethought in the task.

Next time Ra might want to include some input from those of us
living Earth. We could have given it a head's up on the rather difficult nature of its task. :(

Cassie

I see what you are saying, but I do think you are looking at things within a very narrow framework from within the limitations of 3rd density. This is easy to do believe me! By using analogies based with the rational mind and based on the systems of structure and society in the 3rd density illusion, and then assuming things must or should work in such and such a way in the spiritual world...Such patterns of thought are hopeless! The answer to such queries can only be 'mu' or 'unask the question' -- in other words the question cannot be answered as it depends on false assumptions.

As you read through the Ra material you may find a couple important points to consider -- the rational mind by its very nature is negative, thus by relying on the over use of the rational mind to analyze any given situation, one is not relying on the intuitive mind to balance their conclusions, therefore by following this thought process ones conclusion will inevitably be -- negative! Within you somewhere you know. One needs to hold onto this truth within to balance the thought process, by using the intuition. The second point is in book V where it is stated that the nature of ALL our distortions is the limitation of our viewpoint. This is a very important thing to consider I think...it is also stated that acknowledging in honesty that we do not understand that which we seek is in fact a necessary step in becoming harvestable to 4th density. To be blunt - you (and I) dont understand how these metaphysical processes work, so to jump to conclusions in ones mind about how things should or shouldnt have gone down, (or how they are going) is not really a fruitful avenue of contemplation imo.

So basically -- I know it seems that what we are going through is hard and isnt working very well. When the veil is lifted and you have a clearer understanding, I do believe you will no longer feel any anger about the situation-- at all. All you will really want to do is give praise and thanks, and to forgive the self. The way I look at it is may as well give thanks and praise for everything now, believe me that is all we will want to do later! and to do it now is much more efficient use of catalyst, and results in much further polarization and enlightenment! You know the truth, now its a matter of living it, just help others without any expectation of reward on the physical plane, this right now is the most efficient way to honor the creator. If you love god, then love everything around you - everything, and refrain from judgement with the rational mind.

[johnasmodeus]

QUOTE=johnasmodeus;24037]
The way I've come to understand it, the "dark" souls are more similar to the "light" souls than they are to those in the "undecided" category. Both have developed unconditional love to a high degree; the only difference is the object of that love. But even this is more or less the same thing - the self.

So dark and light souls are more or less equivalent. But we often imagine that the light souls are higher than the dark souls, or more evolved, when actually they are not necessarily so. This is an easy trap to fall into .

Yes that was one a very interesting and important point in the Ra material I thought. It makes sense.
Cassie[/QUOTE]

Glad to be of help. :)

[johnasmodeus]

Hey Cassie - if it helps, step back for a moment and imagine trying to help a 2D being (or a group of 2D beings) like a group of stray cats near your house. How well are you able to communicate with them to determine what will be good or bad for them? And how they respond to your help really is a crapshoot.

You can put food outside for them, but will they eat it? And then, will they share it or will the bigger cats hoard it and chase away the smaller kittens? Or will the doberman down the road see all the gathering cats as a chance to play "let's chase things that are smaller than me" and scare all the cats away? It's really difficult to tell until you just do it and find out. I think this is the kind of standpoint from which any 4D+ being will be working from.

[Kris]

It seems that my second reading of the LoO is causing me more confusion than my first (although perhaps that is because I have learned so much since my first read).

Ra says that you only need to be 51% more STO than STS to graduate to 4d. Yet the highly positive third density planet Venus only had a graduation of approximately 20% of its population. Ra further states that to be harvestable in the negative orientation you need to be 95% STS.

I consider myself to be a STO person. More than just the 51% needed to graduate. I was pretty sure I was going to 4d, now I’m confused. Should I not be looking at what happened to Venus, as Earth is something completely different, albeit a lot more negative? Is it because we have Ra so many Wanderers here to help us that more than 20% of our population will go or will a huge number of people be stuck on another 3d planet?

I know people have said that 51% STO people will graduate, but why then did only 20% of Venus graduate?:confused:

[charles obscure]

It seems that my second reading of the LoO is causing me more confusion than my first (although perhaps that is because I have learned so much since my first read).

Ra says that you only need to be 51% more STO than STS to graduate to 4d. Yet the highly positive third density planet Venus only had a graduation of approximately 20% of its population. Ra further states that to be harvestable in the negative orientation you need to be 95% STS.

I consider myself to be a STO person. More than just the 51% needed to graduate. I was pretty sure I was going to 4d, now I’m confused. Should I not be looking at what happened to Venus, as Earth is something completely different, albeit a lot more negative? Is it because we have Ra so many Wanderers here to help us that more than 20% of our population will go or will a huge number of people be stuck on another 3d planet?

I know people have said that 51% STO people will graduate, but why then did only 20% of Venus graduate?:confused:


You are looking at two different statistics, on an individual level a person is required 51% service to others to be harvestable, this means that 20% of venus population was comprised of entities who devoted themselves at least 51% to service to others...the 20% number can be anything depending on the planet it could've been 10% or 2% or 75% --it doesnt matter. The number or percentage of actual people harvestable is a completely different and independent thing than the individual 51% STO.

I think the confusion might spark from -- 51% being a percentage of -- what exactly? of action? of thought? of being? I think the answer is in a nutshell all 3 and measured by how much light in the metaphysical sense we are able to radiate out.

Keep in mind Venus was an extremely positive planet, the percentage of Earths harvestable entities will likely be far less than 20%, but that does not alter in anyway the 51% STO an individual entity needs to be harvestable. The 51% is a static number, not dependent on the number of others who are harvestable.

[billybobbutterball]

[QUOTE=Kris;24258]It seems that my second reading of the LoO is causing me more confusion than my first (although perhaps that is because I have learned so much since my first read).

Ra says that you only need to be 51% more STO than STS to graduate to 4d. Yet the highly positive third density planet Venus only had a graduation of approximately 20% of its population. Ra further states that to be harvestable in the negative orientation you need to be 95% STS.

#####

Hi, Kris.

Charles Obscure gave you some good response, but I would like to add a bit.

What could be judged as a "positive planet" might not theoretically have any harvestable entities whatsoever! For instance, how would one rate a planet where 90% of the population listed at 40% for others -- but none over 50%? In that case I would consider it as being an essentially "positive" planet. On the other hand we might have a planet where 90% were only 15% for others, but unlike the above mentioned "positive" planet, 1% somehow, against the odds, manage to score over 51% ... despite the succesful graduates it would appear to me on the whole to be judged a "negative" planet.

But then again I could be wrong in my above assumption if the negative/positive label has to do with the basic, designed property of the planet's ambience rather than its apparent human product at some given time...or have I just muddied things up even more??

All this positive/negative graduation stuff reminds me somewhat of the admonition in the bible against the merely lukewarm -- neither being hot nor cold they are spat out. (i.e., to be recycled until they finally go one way or the other )

If it doesn't fit, just dump it off at Goodwill.... billybob:confused:

[Kris]

Thank you Charles Obscure and Billybob for your thoughtful responses. I have been pondering what you have both said for a couple of days.

Charles

I do realize that they are two different statistics. However, I thought that a positive planet would be made up of mostly positive STO people, like perhaps 80% of the population would be more STO oriented.

I never thought of the possibility that there could be such a small number of people here on Earth who are actually STO people. That’s a scary thought!

I guess what I really didn’t understand was - what is basis of a negative or a positive planet?

Billybobbutterbud

So basically you answered my question (before I asked it:cool: ) about what you think a positive/negative type planet would be and I understand what your saying, but then again, you’re also saying your guess is as good as mine and that, in itself, I suppose is comforting.

I absolutely love your description Charles of what STO means to you “in a nutshell” because, undoubtedly, that is a question I’m sure many people struggle to define, (well I have anyway:eek: ).

It fits, Billybob. No dumping required.;)

Thank you both.

Kris

[addalight]

billybobmathball,
Did you use the 7% solution to figure this?

[johnasmodeus]

...I thought that a positive planet would be made up of mostly positive STO people, like perhaps 80% of the population would be more STO oriented.

I never thought of the possibility that there could be such a small number of people here on Earth who are actually STO people. That’s a scary thought!

I guess what I really didn’t understand was - what is basis of a negative or a positive planet?


When everybody around us is super-nice, often we have much reason to try to be nicer. The idea fits into ambition a bit. I know that alot of kids from my hometown have ended up doing OK, but not spectacular as far as jobs, money, etc.

But then when I look at some of my Nigerian friends, who came from having nothing at all, I am amazed at how focused they are on succeeding and working hard and studying to raise their value. Not everybody, sure, some are regular or even lazy; but the percentage of people who have decided, from their past experience, that money is something that they will work hard at having, is much higher than that from my hometown, where mostly everybody was upper-middle class and nobody ever had to know what it was like to go hungry, even for a day.

So it is with planets, I believe. If everybody is mostly positive (I hate assigning percentages, but say they average out at 60% STS, which is higher than the average of 75% for the undecided) then individuals will have little motivation to push themselves for that extra mile. And you will get a lower harvest.

If anything, I believe that this planet's harvest will be more than 20%.

Remember: the average is around STS 75%. That's your baseline. Whatever goes above or below that will give you a negative or positive reading (if you happen to have your tricorder with you :) )

[Moderator note: I think that John has confused STO and STS here according to LoO books, so others please contribute here]

[Kris]

Did you use the 7% solution to figure this?

What exactly is the 7% solution?

[charles obscure]

Thank you Charles Obscure and Billybob for your thoughtful responses. I have been pondering what you have both said for a couple of days.

Charles

I do realize that they are two different statistics. However, I thought that a positive planet would be made up of mostly positive STO people, like perhaps 80% of the population would be more STO oriented.

I never thought of the possibility that there could be such a small number of people here on Earth who are actually STO people. That’s a scary thought!

I guess what I really didn’t understand was - what is basis of a negative or a positive planet?

Billybobbutterbud

So basically you answered my question (before I asked it:cool: ) about what you think a positive/negative type planet would be and I understand what your saying, but then again, you’re also saying your guess is as good as mine and that, in itself, I suppose is comforting.

I absolutely love your description Charles of what STO means to you “in a nutshell” because, undoubtedly, that is a question I’m sure many people struggle to define, (well I have anyway:eek: ).

It fits, Billybob. No dumping required.;)

Thank you both.

Kris

Thanks for the kind words Kris! :)

I think the basis of a positive and negative planet is whether there are more harvestable STO or harvestable STS. It can be harder to differentiate a positive planet sometimes, because there may be more 'in betweens'. Love is not forceful, it is honoring of free will, and the natural order of things so to speak. There is a much stronger 'pull' or attraction in negatively polarized planets I think...This is the nature of negative energy, it sucks in all towards it. Basically if you were in a negatively oriented planet there would be absolutely no doubt about it in your mind!

[twva]

Remember: the average is around STS 75%. That's your baseline. Whatever goes above or below that will give you a negative or positive reading (if you happen to have your tricorder with you :) )


Are you saying 75% because it's roughly halfway between 50% and 95%?

[SuperManny]

Remember: the average is around STS 75%. That's your baseline. Whatever goes above or below that will give you a negative or positive reading (if you happen to have your tricorder with you :) )I can't help but wonder where you came up with this figure of 75%:confused:
I just don't recall Ra ever saying that. Please enlighten us.:)

[soup]

In Session 5, there's this mentioning:

The fifth step involves observing the geographincal and geometrical relationships and ratios of the mind, the other mind, the mass mind, and the infinite mind.

When I read this, immediately I envisioned Leonardo Da Vinci's infatuation with the Divine Proportion. What stimulus to the mind catalyzes the sensation of love? ( I suggest love because it seems all around and might be easy to pick out to inifinity and or to the infinitessimal.)

What does this excerpt suggest to you?


soup

[soup]

I wonder how much Law of One work/study can be done by way of words in the 3d density - it seems as if much of the work of understanding the Law of One is slated for higher densities. Do you think study of the Law of One in a low density state somehow eases teach/learning in the higher densities, beyond words?


soup

[twva]

Do you think study of the Law of One in a low density state somehow eases teach/learning in the higher densities, beyond words?



To the extent that the study is internalized and informs the being, yes, I do.

[onething]

I wonder how much Law of One work/study can be done by way of words in the 3d density - it seems as if much of the work of understanding the Law of One is slated for higher densities. Do you think study of the Law of One in a low density state somehow eases teach/learning in the higher densities, beyond words?

I agree with twva!

To graduate to 4th density, you will already have one foot in heaven. That's what it means to be ready.

[soup]

I think the suggestion that there's negative 6th density wanderers who return to teach/learn the ways of the negative path can possibly help
people cringe in considering that. One possibility is that this is done to
persuade people to adopt such practices - and another possibility is that
this is done to disuade people to adopt such practices.

If within 6th density there is an integration of STS/STO in some way or another, it may be that coming back as wanderer to learn STS practice
is an effort to learn what not to do, though by understanding, balancing and accepting STS practice as legitimate contrast for more functional modes of
being.

To me there seems a paradox within the disclosure of STS practices in that by letting the secrets of manipulation out, they are no longer secret and so may be less effective in their use, there would seem to be a "risk" of them becoming diminished though ironically, there seem so few people interested in learning about them that they perpetuate ad nauseum.


soup

[soup]

..Do you think that Ra's mention of an early advanced South American culture was free of such limiting subconsious influencing models?"...

Could a person's marital status be an example of such limiting suconscious influencing models? Can marital status be a device by which a person limits or expands their own freewill, by which they enslave or be enslaved?


soup

[soup]

..Do you think that Ra's mention of an early advanced South American culture was free of such limiting subconsious influencing models?"...

These "limiting models" may have some sort of logical construct,
taking language form of "if this...then that".

These are likely engrained in peoples inherent beliefs, and I would think that someone like Anthony Robbins may have shared insights into how such things can be consciously adjusted to motivate a person in ways they may be able to reach towards otherwise.


soup

[dukemccormic]

Howdy folks,
I'm a new member here and this is my first post. I have a question about balance between the two paths. First allow me to make the assumption that if a planet is 3D negative then during it's graduation to 4D there would be negative beings assisting in the same fashion or nearly to how Ra and others are helping/have helped Earth. So if both paths are equal in the sense of their destination then are they equal in numbers as well?
Also, it seems to me, living on a STO planet...being helped by STO beings, that our concept of STS is shaped by 3D folk, not evolved negatives, as would be on a 3D negative planet, and as such we (and here is where I find myself looking back up and out of the rabbit hole) are not offered the best chance to take the STS path. I hope that isn't blasphamy on this site, and I only ask for a deeper concept of balance for myself.
Thanks!
matthew.

[twva]

Howdy folks,
I'm a new member here and this is my first post.
Hi, and welcome!

So if both paths are equal in the sense of their destination then are they equal in numbers as well?If I remember correctly, Ra indicated that there are roughly one-tenth as many negative as positive planets.

Also, it seems to me, living on a STO planet...being helped by STO beings, that our concept of STS is shaped by 3D folk, not evolved negatives, as would be on a 3D negative planet, and as such we (and here is where I find myself looking back up and out of the rabbit hole) are not offered the best chance to take the STS path.Ra indicated that the quarantine is carefully managed to give us third-density denizens equal exposure to positive and negative information.

[billybobbutterball]

Howdy folks,
I'm a new member here and this is my first post. I have a question about balance between the two paths. First allow me to make the assumption that if a planet is 3D negative then during it's graduation to 4D there would be negative beings assisting in the same fashion or nearly to how Ra and others are helping/have helped Earth. So if both paths are equal in the sense of their destination then are they equal in numbers as well?
Also, it seems to me, living on a STO planet...being helped by STO beings, that our concept of STS is shaped by 3D folk, not evolved negatives, as would be on a 3D negative planet, and as such we (and here is where I find myself looking back up and out of the rabbit hole) are not offered the best chance to take the STS path. I hope that isn't blasphamy on this site, and I only ask for a deeper concept of balance for myself.
Thanks!
matthew.

Holy vile hissing nest of squirming Black Mamba vipers!

Duke, ya gotta be kidding. Have you ever hear the term, "getting the wrong end of the stick? Do you know what is stinking and sticking to the wrong end of that stick? And you actually want to establish equal opportunity of choice by encouraging some kindly dark soul to have the opportunity to talk you into taking hold of that stick's wrong end? ... sans gloves even?:eek:

Well, true, the gross end results are the same in either case...yes, one way or the other, you do end up holding the stick.

Mathew, I can see where you are coming from...but you have no idea of the consequences of cracking open the door to negative polarity just so you can take a peek at the ugliness beyond ... your naive assumption that the paths are much the same just because they have the same eventual destination -- only requiring different mental orientations -- is a grave missunderstanding that shouts out for quick reorientation before you attract the attention of something you would rather not.

It's late and I'm beat, so will stop here. Stop speculating and take the time to read the Ra material study guide available on site...you can cheat by going directly to the chapter on negative/positive polarity...the link suggested in the other reply would be another good choice.

I would suggest -- if you are so inclined -- to do yourself a favor and follow the Yellow Brick Road...a good reason is that the crummy path through the haunted forest can end most unpleasanty -- especially if the end result is your becoming some nasty thingie's pet ... or meal! !:)

Best, etc. Billybobbutterball ...( sleepily singing this country/western prayer in lullabye fashion: 1.2.3. "Drop kick me Jesus through the goal post of life -- end over end, neither left nor to the right -- straight through the center of dem righteous uprights...":rolleyes:)

[Jetamus]

What will happen to me if I'm not helpful to others enough?

[dukemccormic]

Hi again, and thanks for the responces.
Looking at my question now I see I didn't phrase it properly. I need to comtemplate more on how to do that. Know though that I'm here at this site because I'm inclined to help not manipulate people. If I truly wanted to follow the "dark side" so to say, I would have likely been led to a different site. My concern is balance and I think my...concept...of that may be inacurate. Ra speaks of balance in love/light/wisdom, and I was able to find comments of inner balance of thoughts, and many comments on the balance of the channeling vessel. I will do more searching. My question is clear in my head, but when I articulate it I soud like Charlie Brown's parents.
Thanks for you time and have a good day,
matthew.

[billybobbutterball]

What will happen to me if I'm not helpful to others enough?

Hi, Jet guy.

Reasonable question, but the "enough" on the end sort of hangs in the air...enough for just what?

This gets a bit tricky. Loving others is not the same as being merely "helpful" in the general sense of the term. Controlling others for their own good may be seen as being helpfully expedient, but such can seriously infringe on their freewill and stifle their personal agenda -- which would be objectively seen as a negative influence.

Some sources say that we should work on being ourselves, that it is not necessary to power-hoist ourselves up to a spiritually that can't be gracefully maintained. I don't know. According to The Ra we are perfectly placed where we are right now to handle the catalytic lessons we are here to deal with and learn from. Even teeny little bits of positive light sparks will ripple out throughout the entire cosmos with thunderous effect!

As far as a concern for one "qualifying for 4D" the requirement is that one be slighty more concerned with other people than he/she is for oneself. Now the kicker is that more "learning" can be done here -- because of the special conditions of 3D -- during one lifetime than can be accomplished during a thousand years spent studying in the higher dimensions... See, being here is like having the advantage of working out with really heavy weights in a spiritual gymnasium; one develops muscle. In the higher densities the barbells don't support heavy iron weights but rather balloons filled with hydrogen stuck on the ends. It gives new thought dimension to the bodybuilder's favorite expression, "No pain no gain."

So, even if one advances to say, 4D, one can and will come back as a 'wanderer' to 3D worlds to help out while working on a postgraduate doctoral decree. :cool: There are even some beneficent souls who decided to stay in the 3D astral planes so as to be a help to struggling souls (those who do so are said to be of the White Brotherhood)

These "masters" do pay a price for not advancing on schedule as there are vital lessons to be learned at the higher densities now postponed because of their sacrifice.

Okay, what about now... the bible has a passage addressed to a certain church that reads something like this: " Being neither hot nor cold you are fit only to be spat out" (corrupted billybob version) Most of the Earth's population is lackluster ...tepid so to speak.. and neither negative or positive enough to qualify for graduation. The Earth's major purpose is to provide a venue for the inhabitants to SELF-DETERMINE their polarity one way or the other. If lukewam, then they don't graduate and have to come back until they incline sufficently one way or the other (negative for graduation being 5% for others, 95% for oneself; the bar set for positive is 51% for others, 49% for self) note: At 6D and above there is no polarity involved one way or the other!...furthermore, the ONE CREATOR is ZERO polarized! (not 500 plus % positive -- as a christian might assume )

If you are not ready to graduate its no big deal or disgrace. It will come about later...you can't prematurally storm the gates of heaven, Well, you can, for a short time, but you will feel lousy and out of place until you go back to your home vibration.:p

Sorry that all above may be more than you asked for...and be warned that there are most likely mistakes in my particular understanding ... be sure to study yourself! Okay?:)

Best, bill g AKA BBB

[3D Sunset]

Howdy folks,
Also, it seems to me, living on a STO planet...being helped by STO beings, that our concept of STS is shaped by 3D folk, not evolved negatives, as would be on a 3D negative planet, and as such we (and here is where I find myself looking back up and out of the rabbit hole) are not offered the best chance to take the STS path.

Matthew,

I appreciate your question, and understand from where you speak. Per Ra(and as noted by TWVA), equal opportunity is offered to both polarities as prescribed by the Law of Confusion. Perhaps a more interesting question would be how this balance is maintained for potential STO entities on a stringly STS polarized planet, as Ra indicated that mixed 3D harvests are very rare on STS planets. I suspect that as the majority of entities polarize STS, this attracts more STS polarized entities for incarnation, eventually reaching a critical mass beyond which only committed STS entities are born there, hence their free will is not affected by the lack of STO information.

As I see it, though - and admittedly contrary to the "status q'uo" (pun intended) on this forum - STS needn't be a hellish choice, at least in our 3D world. I find it entertaining to look at many people that are admired, especially in Western cultures. I daresay that many of them, as witnessed by the nature of their very conspicuous success, are strongly polarized STS and may even be harvestable. STS needn't be viewed as "evil" in 3D, only excessively self absorbed and self centered. They tend to be masters at bending the wills of others, and commanding the universe, to meet thier desires (I'm sure you can think of some people like this even from your daily life). They can, and I think typically are quite charismatic, and even likeable... in a way (think of the character William Hurt played in the movie "Network News"). And, although they are people that I, and other strongly polarized STO entities, would inherently not trust, they can be entertaining to be around, if just to watch them work a room.

Now, before I incur (too much) wrath of other posters, I am not saying that STS entities do not perform "evil" acts (this is a separate, and I think interesting discussion). I do, however, think that many "evil" people are/were probably not strongly polarized STS. I think they are/were not polarized at all, and are/were simply building karma that must be unwound before they can progress in either polarity. And through these acts, they are allowing the One Infinite Creator a vast array of opportunities to know himself.

Food for thought, if nothing else.

3D Sunset

[MarkM]

Indeed, a service to self individual in 3D Earth may very well be entirely successful at what they do; enjoy life, be rich, powerful, admired, physically healthy, happy, etc.

Ra also describes that such as these who are at the top of their game; STS-wise in 3D - when they graduate to 4D negative, likely find themselves no longer at the top of the pecking order, subject to god knows what in a world of those warring and competing for their position in the power and control pecking order.

Here, they no longer have the comfort of being at or near the top of the 3D STS pecking order, (a prerequisite for 4D neg graduation) and may find themselves dominated by those more highly powerful in their world - in what may be the equivalent of a living hell, for a time. Mark

[billybobbutterball]

Now, before I incur (too much) wrath of other posters, I am not saying that STS entities do not perform "evil" acts (this is a separate, and I think interesting discussion). I do, however, think that many "evil" people are/were probably not strongly polarized STS. I think they are/were not polarized at all, and are/were simply building karma that must be unwound before they can progress in either polarity. And through these acts, they are allowing the One Infinite Creator a vast array of opportunities to know himself.

Food for thought, if nothing else.

3D Sunset


BBB here.

You make some good points... in my earlier post I did use artistic license and laid it on pretty thick. An interesting aside is that Adoph Hitler -- considered by many the epitome of evil -- didn't make it to negative 4D this time around. ( One whom I would suspect made it with no sweat was dear old Uncle Joe Stalin. )

A gratuitous technical note concerning something you implied ... withholding any source of information -- even putting them in jail -- does not infinge on a person's "free" will. However, providing certain information can do just that. The concept of free will --concerning what it is and what it is not -- can be confusing and sometimes down right anti-intuitional.:confused:

best, etc. BBB

[twva]

My concern is balance and I think my...concept...of that may be inacurate.


If you are asking whether we need to balance STO/STS in our own lives, I think the answer is no. That's because the choice is based on illusion. In truth, there is no separation. There is only one. So attempting to separate from others, which is the essence of the STS path, is in the end doomed to failure and at some point, usually mid-sixth density, STS entities must switch polarities and embrace the all in order to progress.

As STO aspirants we do need to balance, ie accept and forgive, our own negative impulses. This does not mean we need to act on them; merely that we should always remember when observing any other, no matter how negative they might seem, that "there but for the grace of god go I."

[canaan]

This question popped into my head last night before bed and have been expanding upon it all day.

Just as 3rd density blocks our cumulative incarnate knowledge and potential, do you think we are also veiled from Octave knowledge until 7th or 8th density? Let me explain my logic.

Throughout the Law of one Ra painstakingly answers and re answers questions of our veil and its purpose. We are veiled to give us motivation, to give us potency of experience, and to give us facilities to choose our path. Nearly any question, no matter how oblique or off topic is answered to the best of Ra's understanding and with infinite patience. When we get to to a short excerpt that asks about octave knowledge Ra admits that their knowledge is finite and incomplete. Teachers of higher densities have taught them on this subject and this unfinished portion of their learning is shared as best as possible. The basic mechanics are explained, yet knowledge of past octaves is stated to be unavailable to them.

Is it possible that this is another necessary blinder?

The knowledge of octaves, and wisdom garnered, is the knowledge of our local Logoi's incarnations. From our beginnings as static elements of the 1st density to our final reunion with Creation in 8th density it seems as if we are slowly fed information, allowed to chew, and properly digest before going on the next course of the delicious infinite.

Speaking of digestion, Ra tells us that sustenance at a certain point is no longer necessary. We are no longer a portion of conscious creation that must consume energy to remain part of its current existence, but become creation's conscious itself and have no need of it.

Ra tells us that the 8th density is our returning to one. I read this as a return to the creator and all the creator is. We return to the great cumulative knowledge of every experience of every part of every creation.

Perhaps, in preparation for this, another veil is lifted between 6th density and 8th density exposing all knowledge of octave experience.

I'd love to hear what anyone has to say about this, and please correct any mistakes I might make in my logic.

:)

[MarkM]

Nearly any question, no matter how oblique or off topic is answered to the best of Ra's understanding and with infinite patience. When we get to to a short excerpt that asks about octave knowledge Ra admits that their knowledge is finite and incomplete. Teachers of higher densities have taught them on this subject and this unfinished portion of their learning is shared as best as possible. The basic mechanics are explained, yet knowledge of past octaves is stated to be unavailable to them.

I have considered that if one looks at a complete cycle of the progression from 1st to 8th density, we have a story of transition from intelligent infinity to intelligent infinity. (Oneness/Many[distortion]ness/Oneness)

A conceptually prior cycle/octave, discounting the concept of there always being some starting out while others are finishing, a conceptual cycle is bound at either end by some kind of zero/infinity barrier, perhaps not comprehensible or 'piercable' by anything other than that consciousness at the absolute cusp of the attainment of 8th density, (The One Infinite Creator) cycling back into 1st in an incomprehensible instant - intelligent infinity into infinite manyness. As regards the diatonic (or any other) musical scale, the eighth (twelfth, or whatever... )equals the first - doh = doh, one of the inscrutibly beautiful things about music - in between is movement and experience, joy, sorrow, passion, receptivity and giving - One = manyness. Perhaps the first instance of 1st density is infinitely intelligent, prior to first movement, occurring in the same instant as attainment of eighth... infinite intelligence necessary to attain infinite manyness... the two being one and the same, yet spread out over eternity, or an instant...

Thus anything other than that at the apex of 1st/8th may necessarily have no concept of the 'arcing to the infinite horizontal' intelligent infinity required to perceive past cycles, rendering perception of past cycles impossible to all but that final attainment/first instant of of intelligent infinity/infinite manyness. All in between is relative distortion, not infinitely able to perceive past cycles/octaves, due to this infinity barrier... :D

Ahh, the limitations of a 3D time bound, relatively limited expressive mind - so I shall chase the moment. :rolleyes: Mark

[twva]

...some kind of zero/infinity barrier, perhaps not comprehensible or 'piercable' by anything other than that consciousness at the absolute cusp of the attainment of 8th density


Interesting. I have the image of a brilliant white light that, try as you might, you can't see through.

Ra mentions wanderers from the next octave, so it must be possible to move through the -- what shall we call it? -- through the timeless period where all has coalesced between octaves. But perhaps it's not possible to communicate forwards or backwards through that "all moment".

[Jetamus]

Okay, what about now... the bible has a passage addressed to a certain church that reads something like this: " Being neither hot nor cold you are fit only to be spat out" (corrupted billybob version) Most of the Earth's population is lackluster ...tepid so to speak.. and neither negative or positive enough to qualify for graduation. The Earth's major purpose is to provide a venue for the inhabitants to SELF-DETERMINE their polarity one way or the other. If lukewam, then they don't graduate and have to come back until they incline sufficently one way or the other (negative for graduation being 5% for others, 95% for oneself; the bar set for positive is 51% for others, 49% for self) note: At 6D and above there is no polarity involved one way or the other!...furthermore, the ONE CREATOR is ZERO polarized! (not 500 plus % positive -- as a christian might assume )



Doesn't that mean that hardly anyone is going to ascend?
That only a small handful of people are going 4D while the rest of us lukewarm, mortgage paying stressballs end up being shipped off to some other 3D planet to continue exactly the same stuff were doing now?

Sounds like one big relocation to me.

[3D Sunset]

BBB here.
A gratuitous technical note concerning something you implied ... withholding any source of information -- even putting them in jail -- does not infinge on a person's "free" will. However, providing certain information can do just that. The concept of free will --concerning what it is and what it is not -- can be confusing and sometimes down right anti-intuitional.:confused:


Thanks for correcting that implication, BBB. You are right, of course. The point I was making was that on a STS 3D planet, there is very little, if any, opportunity to learn about STO, as I imagine that the call is almost non-existent. (Note that the same is true for STS in a harmonious STO harvest.)

I think that the best opportunities to strongly polarize in either orientation are in mixed harvests where one can really experience the conflict between orientations. That is one reason that I take every opportunity to observe and learn about STS as it manifests itself in our daily world.

It is too easy, I think, to brand them as "the enemy" or "evil" and thus create another way to segregate and separate ourselves. I believe that they feel very strongly that they are "right" and STO is "wrong" (or even deluded and foolish).

As for what happens to them once they cross into 4D Negative, I don't really think that they view that as an issue. They recognize that there is always an alpha dog, and the rest of the pack. They relish the opportunities to battle for position, and recognize that eventually they will be at the top. Like a soldier that starts as a private, fully convinced that he will eventually be Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

In time, we all will join together and recognize the wisdom and power of the other perspective. And although our 3D senses and configuration greatly limit our ability to fully appreciate the subtleties of either orientation, I think that a balanced view is healthy - and so I applaud Matthew's question.

As my father once said, "Just because you've decided what you'll have for dinner, doesn't mean you have to stop looking at the menu."

Food for thought?

3D

[3D Sunset]

Doesn't that mean that hardly anyone is going to ascend?
That only a small handful of people are going 4D while the rest of us lukewarm, mortgage paying stressballs end up being shipped off to some other 3D planet to continue exactly the same stuff were doing now?



CORRECT! On several occasions, Ra stated just that. Remember that only 150 graduated after Earth's second 25,000 year cycle (Granted, there were only a few hundred thousand humans across the globe at that time).

Not that it has any bearing on this harvest, but assuming a similar percentage, that would give us around .1% or about 6 million souls harvested STO. Pretty slim pickings indeed! Following that logic through, I recall a ratio of roughly 10:1 STO:STS entities, which would yield about 600,000 STS souls harvested.

You see now why there is such an interest in increasing the harvests (both STS and STO). The chance only comes around once every 25,000 years, so look for a lot more catalysts to help people polarize while there's still time.

On the other hand, don't feel sad for those that aren't ready. There is infinite time for people to choose and to progress, none will be lost. Also, recall that it is possible to graduate off cycle: By learning to tap into Intelligent Infinity, one can choose their own time of advancing.

Grab your popcorn, the game is just now getting interesting! And don't foget to meditate! Know youself first, and all will be revealed to you.

3D

[twva]

At 6D and above there is no polarity involved one way or the other!...furthermore, the ONE CREATOR is ZERO polarized! (not 500 plus % positive -- as a christian might assume )

I think there may be subtle inaccuracies in this statement. Billybob, you may remember we had a discussion on the old asc2k list re: plenum/void. I think this is similar.

I think the use of the term "zero" in regards to the Creator is problematic. The Creator is infinite strength, infinite fullness. You are certainly right that in truth there is no polarity, and it is also true that the Creator blinks neither at the light nor the darkness.

But the positive path is all about accepting and embracing that which is, and that which is is the Creator. As we move more and more into the light, as our hearts become more and more full of love, we experience a fullness beyond compare. When we reach sixth density, we don't, I don't think, have to give any of that up. We give up more and more of our illusory husk of personality, of course, but not the fullness of the Creator. So I think it makes sense to think of upper sixth density and seventh densities as continuations of the positive path. Perhaps they are not polarized themselves, per se, but it just seems a little misleading to say there is no polarity involved.

I don't know if this will make any sense to anyone but me...

[3D Sunset]

I think the use of the term "zero" in regards to the Creator is problematic.

I agree with you, TWVA, and I have a bit of a solution, as applied from Dewey B. Larson (see references to Dewey in LoO Book II Session 27).

Dewey Larson notes many problems in modern physics, including in Einstein's Special and General Theories of Relativity and our very concept of the nuclear atom. This is rather terse and technical reading, and largely off the point, but Mr. Larson's overall foundation of his theory was that the entire universe is a universe of motion. And even where there is no relative motion visible, all is moving a constant underlying rate of 1 unit of space / 1 unit of time. The fundamental insight of Mr. Larson is that of UNITY. The absence of any realtive difference is not ZERO, it is UNITY (and as it turns out, unity velocity is at the speed of light).

As I was working through his technical and logical discussions, this one observation resonated with me so strongly, that I knew instinctively that it was accurate.

So, I would say that the creator is at UNITY, and his polarity is not zero, it is UNTIY, or "oneness". Where everything meets.

For anyone that's interested, and patient through some rather long winded discussions of physics (and metaphysics). Here is a link to the collected works of Dewey B. Larson and his Reciprocal System.

http://www.reciprocalsystem.com/dbl/index.htm

3D

[dukemccormic]

Hey thanks for helpin' me out folks.

19.16 "Ra: I am Ra. We can speak only in metaphor. Some love the light. Some love the darkness. It is a matter of the unique and infinitely various Creator choosing and playing among its experiences as a child upon a picnic. Some enjoy the picnic and find the sun beautiful, the food delicious, the games refreshing, and glow with the joy of creation. Some find the night delicious, their picnic being pain, difficulty, sufferings of others, and the examination of the perversities of nature. These enjoy a different picnic.

All these experiences are available. It is the free will of each entity which chooses the form of play, the form of pleasure."

Ra also spoke (though I can't find the session because I can't remember how they phrased this answer) of 95%STS being equally as hard to acheive as 51%STO, if I understood that answer correctly.

Now to use an example I'm thoroughly familiar with for the ease of asking this question. Why are there only two Sith, no more no less, and any number of Jedi at any given time. Is that answerable? If the paths are equal in difficulty and the outcome is the same for each, why are the Orion group numbers only 10% of the Confederations at any given time? This I think is where my concept of balance is challenged. Which is great, no problems there, it's why I'm asking...to challenge my own beliefs.
Again, thanks for your time,
matthew.

[twva]

3D, thanks for the Dewey Larson reference. You've got to like a scientific theory that takes unity as its starting point.

Duke, I think that what needs to be balanced is opportunity and difficulty, not numbers. Third density entities on mixed planets, like ours, have an equal opportunity to choose light or dark, and the effort required to make either choice is equal.

But to require that there be equal numbers choosing each path would be to lessen free will, don't you think? If 90% want to choose STO, then so be it.

Ra did say that our Logos had chosen to let more of the light of the Creator through into this creation, and that It (our Logos) has a bias towards kindness. Perhaps that's why the numbers are skewed.

Also, I think I remember Ra saying something to the effect that the negative path was long and difficult -- maybe people sense that and are drawn to the light, instead.

[dukemccormic]

"Duke, I think that what needs to be balanced is opportunity and difficulty, not numbers."
That's a great answer TWVA, thanks. And I don't think they 'should' balance, more of just wondering why they don't.
And that should do it for for now.
Once more, thanks for the time,
matthew.

[MarkM]

I've been slogging through the Ra material tonite, and as good as this is, it's somehow comforting and reassuring to come here and read the words of my own kind! - Well my own kind insofar as human!:)

Together behind the veil... and in mystery. Sometimes, it's good to just savor the big 'whodunnit', satisfied to admit that we don't know much, intuit a bit, and to accept and revel in the concept that we merely 'are'. The idea that there's no alternative to being is enough to fill my muse, tonite. Mark

[soup]

"no alternative to being" reminds me of the disciplines of personality - of being the One Infinite Creator. For some, the idea of the One may suggest the idea of God, but is it?

There's the notion of the unmanifest being in space/time and the manifest/metaphysical/magical/higher being in time/space that seems to suggest some dichotomy, or else can the two coexist?

The idea of crystalizing green ray reminds me of muscle memory that repeats in going from say space/time to time/space...as if singleness if thought on that repetition may be analogous to some sort of crystalization. So I wonder if brain sand formed in the pineal could be in part green ray crystalization. That is I wonder if energy center crystalization is related to a crystalization of the pineal (related to a violet ray record) and to a lesser degree crystalization of some gland near the energy center - as if the pineal may have fractal counterparts of all energy centers, recorded via brain sand???


soup

[soup]

I can't remember off hand if the "God" subject has come up before. My impression is that the word "God" carries with it a stigma of separative influence for most people. In the case of a thought construct where a mutually exclusive "Lord" is being prayed to for assistance, it may be likely that such a Lord is congruent with a higher density, yet short of the One Infinite Creator, as if the concept of God seems simply another one of many Creations...here seems some basis for humility.


soup

[soup]

The field of solid state physics focuses upon crystals, namely the "lattice structure" that comprises them. So the word crystalization may relate to the idea of forming lattice structure which sympathetically ressonates with the rays. Here, the idea of activating DNA may be relevant - that iintoned muscle movements and sounds may entrain the DNA to allow one to sustain Ray Vibrations for a longer and stronger extent than may be possible without such seeking so.


soup

[soup]

At some point Ra was asked how they made contact and there was reply suggesting a narrow band channel by way of the violet center. This reminded me of the idea that the conical shape of the pineal may be some sort of communication hardware....not unique to humans. It may be that animals likewise have crystalized pineals that can be used for communication purpose. Note that in the case of Carla it was two way communication. So it's not difficult to imagine that animals may appear to be passively sleeping when they may be in fact relaying information to those who listening to such things as pineal vibrations.


soup

[soup]

I've wondered about this for years but don't seem to get very far in finding an answer that settles me. As I asked again the other night, one of the first thoughts that came to mind was that an inner core may rotate slightly faster than the corresponding crust and there is some sort of tidal effect caused by the difference....maybe so.

Anyhow, the question relates to Ra's mention of biorythms. Specifically, what is the mechanism of the 9 day spiritual cycle?

As I ponder this now I wonder if the mechanism seems more easily defined in time/space and that some conversion to space/time causes the periodicity.


soup

[soup]

That Ra was recognized as a solar diety of ancient Egypt may suggest some relation to the Sun. If the apparent rotational period of the Sun at it's equator is 27 to 28 days, and the core rotates 3x faster, than possibly there is a relationship between the Sun's core rotation (from an Earthly perspective) and the 9 day spiritual biorythm, (as mentioned by Ra.)


soup

[soup]

I seem to be contempating a philosopher named Martin Buber who authored a work [please PM for title] which has been described as suggesting a dual mode of experience - one intimate and another objective. This body of work I wonder may correspond with the notion of a dual body.

Martin Buber was interested in ontology which has been linked to the language form E-Prime, which seems curious. Also, he seemed a proponent of Zionism -a word which reminded me of the Matrix movies that may have likewise been working to suggest the nature of a Dual body in some abstract way.

Another reason I am interested in Martin Buber seems the idea of the non-transient philosophical wisdom that say, may hold relevance 10,000 years from now...same as it ever was.


soup

[Niagra]

Mark, wow you are indeed a writer and you write with what others have seen and appropriately worded... eloquence. Proper emphasis on emotions are in play as well. If you want to be a writer you will be and are tooled to be a good one. You simply must discover what you have inside you to say. Good Luck

I would add to the thread something as simple as a question. Would it not seem likely to concentrate only on our own choices in fre will? Infringing on others free will, is our choice and our right if we so choose to do so. I cannot buy into being held responsible for infringement by which I did not purpose to do. Even if it was by my own ignorance or lack of awareness, or even by simply not being careful. I know that I am only part of the whole GOD. It is not at this time in the 3rd density realm my job to act as if I am the whole. Therefore it is not possible that ,my lack of care be something I am held accountable for in regard to others making choices of their own free will.

Being here to experience we will always create experience by which others will find themselves involved in. It is the creation of experience that has been dictated, and not that of free will. We are responsible to experience only. When we have been bathed in love and light, we then walk with more accountability, but we walk to experience, and to learn as much about love and light as we can possibly see... being in the illusion of 3rd density.

Energy should be spent in experience and maybe not so much in responsibilities experience creates for others. Unless it is deliberate and purposed to harm, it is certainly positive in its creation!! ..



What do you think?