What about Co-Dependency?

[Jenifer Ransom]

the current thread about sts/sto got me thinking about where
co-dependency
fits into all this. it strikes me that it is very possible for those
on the sto path to
fall into this kind of behavior, where they try to help others with
some kind of addiction
or other dysfunctional coping patterns. i know i've played that role
in the past, and that i still
have to be cautious and aware of this pattern of avoiding living my own
life by losing myself in "helping" another.

of course this brings up the question of what it really means to be
helpful. we can't
really be there for and help others if we can't do the same for
ourselves, right?

would be interested to hear of others' experiences with this...

jen

[blueflame]

hi group!

i am new to this group and just wanted to comment on jenifer's post :)

strictly my opinion...co-dependency is a path to the maturation in spiritual
life...it's a projection of one's deep desire to be recognized as "good"; the
feedback is such that people become addicted to it in that spot or frequency of
thinking, feeling, living and doing.

we can help others in different forms (giving food, clothes, money, etc. or
teaching how to use one's own resources and talents or do both) without
expecting anything in return...to me, this is truly sto; we recognize all beings
as sparks of the one and all-there-is makes one greater consciousness.

a question one might as to find out if one is co-dependent while serving
others...what is the driving force behind this type of sto? or what do i want
from helping others?

if one helps others to pat oneself on his or her back...it's an indication that
a deep desire for the recognition as a savior...a "good man" or "good woman" is
in the front seat...this is somewhat chovonistic way of proving the goodness in
child-self to parent-self what a "great job" one had done.

but if one helps others from seeing others as reflections of oneself...we as one
human consciousness, we've been there and done that in many many life times or
observing aeons of life times within one greater consciousness...so compassion
takes the front seat in this case.

seeing others within oneself and discriminate what is right to do in the
realness of one's living life comes from the joining of heart and mind. this
fluid motion of energy in this 3d world happens with accepting and loving all
regardless of the quality, quantity and origin.

what would you do as a god when a friend or anyone in the street needs help?

all answers for you are within your inner, finer vibrational heart/mind where
greater consciousness resides :)




jenifer ransom <jenifer@... (/group/asc2k/post?postid=xi6zl__y6ppbismxk8jvszwzifqmpbxrm5es3w vfejeuvsihinp4f1py_xhu_tu7y2kz9-qhn0rb0qy)> wrote: the
current thread about sts/sto got me thinking about where
co-dependency
fits into all this. it strikes me that it is very possible for those
on the sto path to
fall into this kind of behavior, where they try to help others with
some kind of addiction
or other dysfunctional coping patterns. i know i've played that role
in the past, and that i still
have to be cautious and aware of this pattern of avoiding living my own
life by losing myself in "helping" another.

of course this brings up the question of what it really means to be
helpful. we can't
really be there for and help others if we can't do the same for
ourselves, right?

would be interested to hear of others' experiences with this...

jen






---------------------------------
want to start your own business? learn how on yahoo! small business.

[non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[M.W.]

--- in asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postid=doz3j_er-ij0ze3m3ie_4-_rsyt9oixqnffbzioqyqzlqwtqmovzolfbu8eiiviqizz87qhe ppqkh1lmxbpycw), jenifer ransom <jenifer@...> wrote:
>
jen says:
>... where (does)co-dependency fit into all this.
> it strikes me that > it is very possible for those
> on the sto path to fall into this kind of behavior,

snip

bill says: i have fallen into this sticky trap in
the past, and what is worse is that i'm currently
entangled in two long-enduring situations. i should
know better, but i keep thinking that i can help in
some way. i often wonder just how close i teeter
toward the controling mode of an stser while trying
to help two women suffering trials and tribulations.

some aspects are rather comical. one weighs 90lbs
dripping wet (my speculation...no on-the-spot test)
the other is over 300 lbs -- wet or dry) they are both
religious fanatics ... one is a traditional catholic,
the other a protestant evangelical. they hate each
other's cultish guts tho they have met only via the
phone. both claim the other is "ruining" my life.

they have one thing in common, and that is they agree
that i'm an arrogant know-it-all who needs to be
slammed hard in order to be brought down from "his"
dangerous "new age" nonsense of foolishly dealing
with the doctrines of demons, lucifer -- and satan,
of course. they have no idea whatsoever of the loo.

being a man i of course want to offer solutions to
their various ongoing problems. being women they
don't want answers as much as a handy target for
their vocalized rants, rages, and complaints...or
even at times just a mere sounding board for their
chess-playing schemes of how to control other
people ... especially their rebellious children.

i guess my main function has been to serve as a
loyal "good" listener. i'm probably addicted in
a manner similar to those hooked on on-going tv
soap operas. (:>) and i do care about them.

recently i read somewhere that well-meant but
foolish attempts to be of service to others is
not rewarded by spiritual growth. money given
by foolish largress is not rewarded by some
karmic recompense in the future.

ouch! too late the advice!

dumb and dumber!

yeah, jen, i know what you are getting at.

best. billybumbler

[Nina]

--- in asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postid=krmswufnhyo4u-dimpawbhlwuucva7_l5wuj_3_4cb4qmmb04emfvsjenrrh-flxwc9kfas9y1dptrllocy-na), jenifer ransom <jenifer@...> wrote:
> life by losing myself in "helping" another.....
> really be there for and help others if we can't do the same for
> ourselves, right? jen
dear jen,
came thru this myself. cayce reading 1439-2 went on to "pray like
the devil"...to try to give "expression" to the strength of the
opposition, and what was needed. lucky to secure reading fr minister
that works like cayce(dr. bro was researching this man when i was
grad student there).his advice to me was to "become one heart"..but
also to know that "only the soul can develop".reading 3744-5 "what
one thinks continually, they become;what one cherishes in their
heart and mind they make a part of the pulsation of their heart,
through their own blood cells and build in their own physical, that
which its spirit must feed upon, and ... when it passes into the
realm for which the other experiences ..gained here...must be used."
best words can find: "the love i had for him helped make me who i
am".dreams of inestimable value. may not have had dream of "va
bch,cayce's return" without the heart outpouring that came from this
relationship. can't generalize readings for specific people but did
find value in words here(insert - relations w/addict seen as
inactivity of coordinating force)
reading 552-2
"if it is held a cross, it will remain as one...with individuals
where there is in their experience crosses to bear, hardships or
surroundings that to them are overpowering, overwelming, by slights,
slurs, and fancies of the inactivity of a coordinating force. if
these are held continually as crosses, or as things to be overcome,
then they will remain as crosses. but if they are met with the
spirit of truth and right in their own selves, they should create
joy for that is what will be built." nina

[blujett8]

hi jenn

i don't post here often...but i thought i'd comment on this one since
i have really been dealing with myself and co-dependency in a big way
since last spring...it's an ongoing realization and i have yet to
deliver the final notice to my partner (in 3d) that i can no longer
participate in our co-dependent dynamic(we're separated at the
moment)...so , i'm not out of the woods yet....but, this time of
learning about how and why i entered into codepedency has been
nothing short of amazing! i have really begun to see how i use my
energy with those around me and also awakened to ways in which i can
purify my intentions....for me, sto is about radiance...and figuring
out what is and is not in alignment with the highest frequency i can
access in any given moment....recently i more easily focus first on
the love in each encounter and from there decide whether or not i
want to offer some kind of more general, what i might see from my end
as "assistance"....prior to this time, the above was often in
reverse...many times unconsciously...so my clean-up and realignment
crew has been working overtime these days and i can happily report
that the results have been nothing short of miraculous!!
peace
heather

[Jenifer Ransom]

on nov 25, 2006, at 10:51 am, blueflame wrote:

> hi group!
>
> i am new to this group and just wanted to comment on jenifer's post :)
>
> strictly my opinion...co-dependency is a path to the maturation in
> spiritual life...it's a projection of one's deep desire to be
> recognized as "good"; the feedback is such that people become addicted
> to it in that spot or frequency of thinking, feeling, living and
> doing.

hello blueflame, i wonder if you are familiar with the dynamics of
co-dependency.
wanting to be recognized as "good" may be part of it, but it is more
about focusing on others' difficulties as a way of avoiding working on
our own stuff. ironically, in the process, we often
end up "enabling" destructive patterns such as alcoholism, i.e. the
spouse who drinks with
the alcoholic, gets him out of jail, calls up his job and lies for him
when he is hungover, etc.
is this really helping the other?
>
> we can help others in different forms (giving food, clothes, money,
> etc. or teaching how to use one's own resources and talents or do
> both) without expecting anything in return...to me, this is truly sto;
> we recognize all beings as sparks of the one and all-there-is makes
> one greater consciousness.

that is all true, but it doesn't relate to the core issues of
co-dependency.
>
> a question one might as to find out if one is co-dependent while
> serving others...what is the driving force behind this type of sto? or
> what do i want from helping others?
>
> if one helps others to pat oneself on his or her back...it's an
> indication that a deep desire for the recognition as a savior...a
> "good man" or "good woman" is in the front seat...this is somewhat
> chovonistic way of proving the goodness in child-self to parent-self
> what a "great job" one had done.

again, i see it more as an avoidance of one's own issues. by the way,
i see nothing wrong
with patting oneself on the back for a job well done. in fact, it's
essential that we validate
ourselves rather than looking to others for positive feedback.

the rest of your comments below are all good, but don't address the
co-dependency dynamic.

jen
>
> but if one helps others from seeing others as reflections of
> oneself...we as one human consciousness, we've been there and done
> that in many many life times or observing aeons of life times within
> one greater consciousness...so compassion takes the front seat in this
> case.
>
> seeing others within oneself and discriminate what is right to do in
> the realness of one's living life comes from the joining of heart and
> mind. this fluid motion of energy in this 3d world happens with
> accepting and loving all regardless of the quality, quantity and
> origin.
>
> what would you do as a god when a friend or anyone in the street
> needs help?
>
> all answers for you are within your inner, finer vibrational
> heart/mind where greater consciousness resides :)

[non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jenifer Ransom]

responses interspersed below...

on nov 25, 2006, at 12:14 pm, m.w. (bill )gieskieng wrote:

> --- in asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postid=xiie8yobmlwwdbmvadiovj3w_ogmpukqijp0bg _5hqxa9d7hbxosqqn0aihdmqfosirnn6h88i6ghtiysj4), jenifer ransom <jenifer@...> wrote:
> >
> jen says:
> >... where (does)co-dependency fit into all this.
> > it strikes me that > it is very possible for those
> > on the sto path to fall into this kind of behavior,
>
> snip
>
> bill says: i have fallen into this sticky trap in
> the past, and what is worse is that i'm currently
> entangled in two long-enduring situations. i should
> know better, but i keep thinking that i can help in
> some way. i often wonder just how close i teeter
> toward the controling mode of an stser while trying
> to help two women suffering trials and tribulations.

hi bill, it's good that you are asking yourself such questions...
>
> some aspects are rather comical. one weighs 90lbs
> dripping wet (my speculation...no on-the-spot test)
> the other is over 300 lbs -- wet or dry) they are both
> religious fanatics ... one is a traditional catholic,
> the other a protestant evangelical. they hate each
> other's cultish guts tho they have met only via the
> phone. both claim the other is "ruining" my life

ha, yes, that does sound comical--material for a situation comedy?
:-)
>
> they have one thing in common, and that is they agree
> that i'm an arrogant know-it-all who needs to be
> slammed hard in order to be brought down from "his"
> dangerous "new age" nonsense of foolishly dealing
> with the doctrines of demons, lucifer -- and satan,
> of course. they have no idea whatsoever of the loo.

not many do, of course...
>
> being a man i of course want to offer solutions to
> their various ongoing problems. being women they
> don't want answers as much as a handy target for
> their vocalized rants, rages, and complaints...or
> even at times just a mere sounding board for their
> chess-playing schemes of how to control other
> people ... especially their rebellious children.

sounds delightful. :-)
>
> i guess my main function has been to serve as a
> loyal "good" listener. i'm probably addicted in
> a manner similar to those hooked on on-going tv
> soap operas. (:>) and i do care about them.

do you think you may be playing the role of "enabler" with them
by listening so patiently to their rants, rages, and complaints? is
this
constructive for them, or for you?
>
> recently i read somewhere that well-meant but
> foolish attempts to be of service to others is
> not rewarded by spiritual growth.
> money given
> by foolish largress is not rewarded by some
> karmic recompense in the future.
>
> ouch! too late the advice!

ah well, we learn from our mistakes, nothing is ever wasted.
>
> dumb and dumber!

i'm sure you're getting smarter all the time. :-)
>
> yeah, jen, i know what you are getting at.

yes, i think we've all been there to some extent. as i said before, i
sure have.

all best,
jen
>
> best. billybumbler


[non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jenifer Ransom]

on nov 26, 2006, at 1:55 am, nina wrote:

<snip>

> best words can find: "the love i had for him helped make me who i
> am".

hi nina, the above is the part of your post that most resonated with
me. as i said
to bill, nothing is ever wasted, even the dysfunctional, co-dependent
kind of love.

thanks nina,
jen


[non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jenifer Ransom]

on nov 26, 2006, at 8:09 am, blujett8 wrote:

> hi jenn
>
> i don't post here often...but i thought i'd comment on this one since
> i have really been dealing with myself and co-dependency in a big way
> since last spring...it's an ongoing realization and i have yet to
> deliver the final notice to my partner (in 3d) that i can no longer
> participate in our co-dependent dynamic(we're separated at the
> moment)...so , i'm not out of the woods yet....but, this time of
> learning about how and why i entered into codepedency has been
> nothing short of amazing! i have really begun to see how i use my
> energy with those around me and also awakened to ways in which i can
> purify my intentions....

hi heather, that is so fantastic, and i am so happy for you!! if you
don't mind
my asking, what was the catalyst for these realizations? books,
therapy?

learning about the whys and wherefores of my own co-dependent traits
has been very enlightening to me as well, and i too still have work to
do in this area, but i've come a
long way, baby. ;-)

> for me, sto is about radiance...and figuring
> out what is and is not in alignment with the highest frequency i can
> access in any given moment....

yes, that makes sense to me. we are energy beings, and our primary work
ought to be aligning our energies in the best possible way.

> recently i more easily focus first on
> the love in each encounter and from there decide whether or not i
> want to offer some kind of more general, what i might see from my end
> as "assistance"....prior to this time, the above was often in
> reverse...many times unconsciously...

yes, moving from co-dependency to true sto is all about becoming
more conscious.

> my clean-up and realignment
> crew has been working overtime these days and i can happily report
> that the results have been nothing short of miraculous!!

again, that's fantastic! if you care to share more of your journey,
i'm sure we would all be interested.

peace & love,
jen

> peace
> heather


[non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[blueflame]

hi jen,

thanks for reading and advising me not to address co-dependency dynamics...i
will just do that after writing this:
it was just my opinion that our deep desire to be recognized as "good" and to
feel good upon receiving positive feedback or validation for one's action is
where our addiction for co-dependency begins...i've seen many who were lost in
total confusion as to what is the right thing to do after being involved in such
relationships for so long (this is the point of hitting rock bottom and seeing
the beginning of the end of such relating behaviors)...it all depends on one's
ability to discriminate what one should do for the greater good and maintain
one's integrity.
de-valuing oneself usually is a learned behavior in my view and it is a catalyst
for co-dependency. after all, we all depend on each other within reason for
survival; dependency, as anything else, becomes self-destructive when it spreads
beyond reasonability :)

yes...that was the last thing i wanted to say about it...relax...it's only my
opinion from life experiences...i could be totally wrong in others' worlds!



jenifer ransom <jenifer@... (/group/asc2k/post?postid=cgnxheyr35iqqdfyyazkviam7l6k4lgr4lhwlh dhwos6ucymqk0ma0rq-yaa0a2iykiq4iullqyi5qq)> wrote:
on nov 25, 2006, at 10:51 am, blueflame wrote:

> hi group!
>
> i am new to this group and just wanted to comment on jenifer's post :)
>
> strictly my opinion...co-dependency is a path to the maturation in
> spiritual life...it's a projection of one's deep desire to be
> recognized as "good"; the feedback is such that people become addicted
> to it in that spot or frequency of thinking, feeling, living and
> doing.

hello blueflame, i wonder if you are familiar with the dynamics of
co-dependency.
wanting to be recognized as "good" may be part of it, but it is more
about focusing on others' difficulties as a way of avoiding working on
our own stuff. ironically, in the process, we often
end up "enabling" destructive patterns such as alcoholism, i.e. the
spouse who drinks with
the alcoholic, gets him out of jail, calls up his job and lies for him
when he is hungover, etc.
is this really helping the other?
>
> we can help others in different forms (giving food, clothes, money,
> etc. or teaching how to use one's own resources and talents or do
> both) without expecting anything in return...to me, this is truly sto;
> we recognize all beings as sparks of the one and all-there-is makes
> one greater consciousness.

that is all true, but it doesn't relate to the core issues of
co-dependency.
>
> a question one might as to find out if one is co-dependent while
> serving others...what is the driving force behind this type of sto? or
> what do i want from helping others?
>
> if one helps others to pat oneself on his or her back...it's an
> indication that a deep desire for the recognition as a savior...a
> "good man" or "good woman" is in the front seat...this is somewhat
> chovonistic way of proving the goodness in child-self to parent-self
> what a "great job" one had done.

again, i see it more as an avoidance of one's own issues. by the way,
i see nothing wrong
with patting oneself on the back for a job well done. in fact, it's
essential that we validate
ourselves rather than looking to others for positive feedback.

the rest of your comments below are all good, but don't address the
co-dependency dynamic.

jen
>
> but if one helps others from seeing others as reflections of
> oneself...we as one human consciousness, we've been there and done
> that in many many life times or observing aeons of life times within
> one greater consciousness...so compassion takes the front seat in this
> case.
>
> seeing others within oneself and discriminate what is right to do in
> the realness of one's living life comes from the joining of heart and
> mind. this fluid motion of energy in this 3d world happens with
> accepting and loving all regardless of the quality, quantity and
> origin.
>
> what would you do as a god when a friend or anyone in the street
> needs help?
>
> all answers for you are within your inner, finer vibrational
> heart/mind where greater consciousness resides :)

[non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
everyone is raving about the all-new yahoo! mail beta.

[non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Nina]

words that helped me when facing this were from author of "the selfish
brain", can't locate bk now to tell you his name..
"co-dependents are in a trap from which they cannot escape...love
itself pushes them ever deeper into this trap."
co-dependence is a disease of lost self-hood, of having one's self and
self-esteem defined by someone else's behavior. the co-dependent is as
hooked on the addict as the addict is on the alcohol or other
drug...their lives and self-concepts, to a large extent, are defined
by their relationships with their addicts."
cayce 3209: "for many an individual entity those things that are of
sorrow are the greater helps for unfoldment."
(cayce offered much with his use of gold, which had been part of
treatment for alcoholism in past....if any of you who are dealing
w/this aren't aware.) nina

[Jenifer Ransom]

on nov 26, 2006, at 8:57 pm, blueflame wrote:

> hi jen,
>
> thanks for reading and advising me not to address co-dependency
> dynamics...

hello bluefame,

that isn't quite what i said, but whatever...

> i will just do that after writing this:
> it was just my opinion that our deep desire to be recognized as
> "good" and to feel good upon receiving positive feedback or validation
> for one's action is where our addiction for co-dependency begins...

yes, that is one reason for this dynamic.

> i've seen many who were lost in total confusion as to what is the
> right thing to do after being involved in such relationships for so
> long (this is the point of hitting rock bottom and seeing the
> beginning of the end of such relating behaviors)...it all depends on
> one's ability to discriminate what one should do for the greater good
> and maintain one's integrity.

and understanding that actions for "the greater good" have to be
congruent with doing what
is best for oneself...

> de-valuing oneself usually is a learned behavior in my view and it is
> a catalyst for co-dependency. after all, we all depend on each other
> within reason for survival; dependency, as anything else, becomes
> self-destructive when it spreads beyond reasonability :)

and when, as in co-dependency one loses oneself in the other's needs.
>
> yes...that was the last thing i wanted to say about it...relax...

do i give the impression of being tense? :-)

> it's only my opinion from life experiences...i could be totally wrong
> in others' worlds!

your opinion is as valuable as anyone else's. perhaps you could share
a bit about your
own experience with co-dependency?

jen


[non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[William L. Garber]

hi all,

i was a mess in 1995, got me a psychologist to help
me, he gave me a task assignment, read melody beatties
book co-dependency no more, found she had written a
couple books, read them and started on the road to
recovery, desolved my 30 year marriage, 12 years later
still recovering, but much happier.

bill
--- jenifer ransom <jenifer@... (/group/asc2k/post?postid=9d79fhr371ffdcezszmd1zerl_cz_hqewc0wog ymodsdqoxslchvs9-6y2k3bw-gsvwi33vshe8skqas)> wrote:

>
> on nov 26, 2006, at 8:57 pm, blueflame wrote:
>
> > hi jen,
> >
> > thanks for reading and advising me not to address
> co-dependency
> > dynamics...
>
> hello bluefame,
>
> that isn't quite what i said, but whatever...
>
> > i will just do that after writing this:
> > it was just my opinion that our deep desire to be
> recognized as
> > "good" and to feel good upon receiving positive
> feedback or validation
> > for one's action is where our addiction for
> co-dependency begins...
>
> yes, that is one reason for this dynamic.
>
> > i've seen many who were lost in total confusion as
> to what is the
> > right thing to do after being involved in such
> relationships for so
> > long (this is the point of hitting rock bottom and
> seeing the
> > beginning of the end of such relating
> behaviors)...it all depends on
> > one's ability to discriminate what one should do
> for the greater good
> > and maintain one's integrity.
>
> and understanding that actions for "the greater
> good" have to be
> congruent with doing what
> is best for oneself...
>
> > de-valuing oneself usually is a learned behavior
> in my view and it is
> > a catalyst for co-dependency. after all, we all
> depend on each other
> > within reason for survival; dependency, as
> anything else, becomes
> > self-destructive when it spreads beyond
> reasonability :)
>
> and when, as in co-dependency one loses oneself in
> the other's needs.
> >
> > yes...that was the last thing i wanted to say
> about it...relax...
>
> do i give the impression of being tense? :-)
>
> > it's only my opinion from life experiences...i
> could be totally wrong
> > in others' worlds!
>
> your opinion is as valuable as anyone else's.
> perhaps you could share
> a bit about your
> own experience with co-dependency?
>
> jen
>
>
> [non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>
>
> yahoo! groups links
>
>
>
>
>


be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your
mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will
of god. (romans 12)

remember, a winner focuses.......a loser strays.

a room without books, is like a body without a soul. by cicero.





__________________________________________________ ______________________________\
____
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[Mark Stringfellow]

hello group,

i haven't posted in awhile, but i have been reading, nonetheless.
i decided to post on this topic because it is something i am all
too familiar with when it comes to seeking to walk a spiritual
path. my grandparents where the first to seek to walk this way and
co-dependency was the lesson they left their offspring with to
decipher.

co-dependency is deeply rooted in judeo/christian tradition. it is
an off-shoot of martyrdom. it has become a major stumbling block
to those who would seek the way of the christ. it stems from a
misunderstanding of sacrifice and limits. a misconception of the
true mission of the christ. not one of sacrifice and martyrdom, but
one of redemption and the power to rise above the desire nature of
mankind.

because the majority of mankind on the planet are in some way,
unconsciously, conditioned by the judeo/christian paradigm, we are
all subject to the principles depicted in the gospel story(whether
told correctly or not). it is the paradigm that rules the pisces/virgo
age and is deeply ingrained within our understanding, albeit,
distorted and twisted beyond its original message. it defines the
nature of what it means to be spiritual and it is at the heart of
what needs to be deconditioned in order to find a truer path toward
the creator. and it all comes down to the establishment of healthy
boundaries and limitations.

while it is important to be helpful to those who are in difficult
situations. where is it helpful to them if their problems destroy
two lives rather than one. this is where the co-dependent has the
greatest difficulty. power is given to those we are dependent on
because they give meaning to an otherwise meaningless life. their
salvation becomes the purpose for a life that has none. it is a dance
of selfishness that knows no end. self-perpetuated by mutual need. it
is the seed of the sado-masochistic pattern that, quite covertly,
permeates the nature of relationships within our society and more
personal relations. it is subtle and hard to detect. but it is there,
operating undetected, governing our actions and undermining our most
cherished connections.

it is only when the co-dependent discovers the boundaries that were
lost from their own conditioning that extrication can be achieved.
applying these newly discovered boundaries and limitations is perhaps
the most difficult challenge that the co-dependent faces. difficult
to apply and even more painful to consistently uphold. behind each
act of the application of boundaries are voices screaming within the
co-dependent of how cruel and unfeeling they are. but contained within
every act of self-definition is one overriding truth that must be
understood and accepted. that truth being, that the same creator that
guides the life of the co-dependent toward spiritual and emotional
healing, also waits to guide the life of those we seek to help. when
this understanding is achieved and becomes a part of those who seek
health, a certain detachment takes place that allows for a needed
perspective to take shape within the consciousness of the
co-dependent. the beginnings of a greater faith in the process of
creation takes shape. an understanding that allows for the healing
power of spirit to act upon any co-dependent situation. the
realization that time is needed for spirit to work after each act of
healthy resolve. to stand back and allow the miracles to unfold. is
there often tragedy? of course. but choices and the responsibility for
those choices belong also to the focus of our co-dependency. and if
we truly believe in the message that was given at the beginning of
this age, then we know and understand that there is more than this
life. and because of this knowledge we can turn those who we love over
to the care of this faith. knowing that the urge for union is
contained within every soul and that the same spirit that has guided
me toward health and clarity will also act to guide the souls of those
we would be of service to. but if i allow those who i love to divert
me from my path to oneness, then i have given two souls over to
distortion and confusion. and how is that being spiritual or in
service to others?

[Jenifer Ransom]

thanks for sharing your experience, bill. so glad you
found your way out of the codependency trap.

it does seem this has been a theme in a fair number of list members'
lives, confirming my hunch that those of sto orientation can easily fall
into this pattern.

jen


on nov 27, 2006, at 12:35 pm, william l. garber wrote:

> hi all,
>
> i was a mess in 1995, got me a psychologist to help
> me, he gave me a task assignment, read melody beatties
> book co-dependency no more, found she had written a
> couple books, read them and started on the road to
> recovery, desolved my 30 year marriage, 12 years later
> still recovering, but much happier.
>
> bill

[non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jenifer Ransom]

on nov 27, 2006, at 3:16 pm, mark stringfellow wrote:

<snip>
>
> it is only when the co-dependent discovers the boundaries that were
> lost from their own conditioning that extrication can be achieved.
> applying these newly discovered boundaries and limitations is perhaps
> the most difficult challenge that the co-dependent faces. difficult
> to apply and even more painful to consistently uphold. behind each
> act of the application of boundaries are voices screaming within the
> co-dependent of how cruel and unfeeling they are.

yes, i've heard those voices when i set out to consistently
uphold boundaries. but the more i do it, the easier it becomes.
right now i am in a situation that seems like my "graduate exam"
in applying this.


> but contained within
> every act of self-definition is one overriding truth that must be
> understood and accepted. that truth being, that the same creator that
> guides the life of the co-dependent toward spiritual and emotional
> healing, also waits to guide the life of those we seek to help.

my own understanding is that each person's soul is in charge. i don't
really relate to the idea of a creator guiding my life, though i do
relate to
the idea of a creator experiencing through me (and not judging anything
in my
experience as being negative).


> when
> this understanding is achieved and becomes a part of those who seek
> health, a certain detachment takes place that allows for a needed
> perspective to take shape within the consciousness of the
> co-dependent. the beginnings of a greater faith in the process of
> creation takes shape. an understanding that allows for the healing
> power of spirit to act upon any co-dependent situation. the
> realization that time is needed for spirit to work after each act of
> healthy resolve. to stand back and allow the miracles to unfold. is
> there often tragedy? of course. but choices and the responsibility for
> those choices belong also to the focus of our co-dependency. and if
> we truly believe in the message that was given at the beginning of
> this age, then we know and understand that there is more than this
> life. and because of this knowledge we can turn those who we love over
> to the care of this faith. knowing that the urge for union is
> contained within every soul and that the same spirit that has guided
> me toward health and clarity will also act to guide the souls of those
> we would be of service to. but if i allow those who i love to divert
> me from my path to oneness, then i have given two souls over to
> distortion and confusion. and how is that being spiritual or in
> service to others?

it isn't, in and of itself, although in the larger picture these kinds
of relationships
can be seen as stepping-stones on our path. we often do need to learn
by
experience what is not right for us, in order to clarify what is. we
need to descend
to the depths before we can begin our upward climb. this may apply
especially
to those on a spiritual path. so maybe it is almost to be expected
that those of
the sto orientation would be prone to the co-dependent pattern.

fantastic post, mark, very thought-provoking, thanks!

jen
>
>
>

[non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[bercano]

...it does seem this has been a theme in a fair number of
list members' lives....well jen...i'd say, its a "theme",
that all of mankind stumbles/trips through/upon ( in varies
degrees)....simply cos...its a byproduct due to dual thinking/
behavior patterns....conditional loving.
love-smiless,
birgit

--- in asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postid=vgpaclvgx9ovipdtxozwbtiz0ruzwbdxifozq9 mii4et9ilwsonqjmtidubq5ht1hr6uncgtqblxqus-rdtj-a), jenifer ransom <jenifer@...>
wrote:
>
> thanks for sharing your experience, bill. so glad you
> found your way out of the codependency trap.
>
> it does seem this has been a theme in a fair number of list
members'
> lives, confirming my hunch that those of sto orientation
can easily fall
> into this pattern.
>
> jen
>
>
> on nov 27, 2006, at 12:35 pm, william l. garber wrote:
>
> > hi all,
> >
> > i was a mess in 1995, got me a psychologist to help
> > me, he gave me a task assignment, read melody beatties
> > book co-dependency no more, found she had written a
> > couple books, read them and started on the road to
> > recovery, desolved my 30 year marriage, 12 years later
> > still recovering, but much happier.
> >
> > bill
>
> [non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[blujett8]

> it is only when the co-dependent discovers the boundaries that were
> lost from their own conditioning that extrication can be achieved.
> applying these newly discovered boundaries and limitations is
perhaps
> the most difficult challenge that the co-dependent faces. difficult
> to apply and even more painful to consistently uphold. behind each
> act of the application of boundaries are voices screaming within the
> co-dependent of how cruel and unfeeling they are.

>>yes, i've heard those voices when i set out to consistently
>>uphold boundaries. but the more i do it, the easier it becomes.
>>right now i am in a situation that seems like my "graduate exam"
>>in applying this.

hi all...thanks mark and jen for these comments...very aptly put, i
thought and helpful...i too feel that i'm presently going through
my "graduation exam" with co-dependency...and one thing i've caught
myself doing is trying to arrange so that the other person will be ok
before i lay down my boundaries and end the relationship...especially
when i'm hearing how cruel and horrible i'm being by having
boundaries in the first place...i'm really fighting the urge in
myself to react the way i would have before, and also try to take
care of them while i'm conducting the break-up! crazy!
peace
heather

[Jenifer Ransom]

on nov 28, 2006, at 2:10 pm, blujett8 wrote:

> i too feel that i'm presently going through
> my "graduation exam" with co-dependency...and one thing i've caught
> myself doing is trying to arrange so that the other person will be ok
> before i lay down my boundaries and end the relationship...especially
> when i'm hearing how cruel and horrible i'm being by having
> boundaries in the first place..

yeah, heather, you ought to be 100% available to that person. why
should you have any
needs or feelings of your own? (wink)

> .i'm really fighting the urge in
> myself to react the way i would have before, and also try to take
> care of them while i'm conducting the break-up! crazy!

perhaps you could visualize cutting that umbilical cord connecting you
to that person--it exists, even if you can't see it.
you may need to do this repeatedly before you feel the difference...

onward,

jen

> peace
> heather


[non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Nina]

--- in asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postid=vbih64gx7ja_hxqrbj22zrdmtavpqfjxasiwqo hr-zifqg_wmlyse6xmfo5f4ccctj15ozqlw5cihsl3ixlqzq), "blujett8" <blujett8@...> wrote:
>
> > it is only when the co-dependent discovers the boundaries that
were lost from their own conditioning that extrication can be achieved.
> care of them while i'm conducting the break-up! crazy!
> peace
> heather
dear heather,
in my case it was easier since he moved away. took me two yrs after to
extricate myself. (as quote fr dr, re- "co-dep addicted to their
addicts, as addict is to substance"). was not pining away for physical
relationship we never had. rather, "i simply wanted him to live."
astrological indicators(north node conjunct/literally joined with
one's sun) completely understand what you wrote.cayce reading helped
here:"we change old habits by forming new ones. that's everybody!"nina