diversity [Archive] - Divine Cosmos Discussions

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mudpuppy

02-13-2002, 12:02 PM

<table bgColor="#ffffff">
>David, I am enjoying your posts very much. Can you tell me what your abbrev..... WCS means?
>
>David says: new members must respect the massive damage that
this man is capable of creating
>
>I don't agree with this. On the one hand you are telling us to avoid criticizing the negative elites, and on the other hand you are suggesting that Simon is so dangerous. To whom, is he dangerous? Only to the most naive and gullible among us, I would think. And don't naive, gullible people have to learn the truth for themself sooner or later? If we cannot accept the negative within the midst of our group, how can we accept the overwhelming negativity that may be exposing itself in the midst of our country and planet in the near future? I'm not suggesting that we allow our group to be destroyed by appeasement of such entities, but I am suggesting that we could "include" such entities up to a point as a part offreedom of expression and encouraging diversity and openness.
>
>mudpuppy

Sunny One

02-13-2002, 12:22 PM

mudpuppy,
Thank you, what a great spirit you have!
I think it is not only the truth that we need
but an understanding of the truth. This is
more difficult to obtain in secrecy and closure.
Pat
--- mudpuppy <mudpuppyman@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=fpD8AxU9Bn8ZCa8taWPnKsAQbjkcm0E0LeMPJq WQdqusnBxS8JJq74xxDEz8V81-IxOf2EyzAwwjMI_RIVg)> wrote:
> David, I am enjoying your posts very much. Can you
> tell me what your abbrev..... WCS means?
>
> David says: new members must respect the massive
> damage that
> this man is capable of creating
>
> I don't agree with this. On the one hand you are
> telling us to avoid criticizing the negative elites,
> and on the other hand you are suggesting that Simon
> is so dangerous. To whom, is he dangerous? Only to
> the most naive and gullible among us, I would think.
> And don't naive, gullible people have to learn the
> truth for themself sooner or later? If we cannot
> accept the negative within the midst of our group,
> how can we accept the overwhelming negativity that
> may be exposing itself in the midst of our country
> and planet in the near future? I'm not suggesting
> that we allow our group to be destroyed by
> appeasement of such entities, but I am suggesting
> that we could "include" such entities up to a point
> as a part of freedom of expression and encouraging
> diversity and openness.
>
> mudpuppy
>

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Mark Ruenes

02-13-2002, 01:00 PM

<table bgColor="#ffffff">
>I think the main point is he may have broken the law, possibly hacking into the yahoo member list to get email addys and then sending unsolicited emails to personal accounts(spam). This to me sounds like extreme measures to get your point across.
>
>Mark
<blockquote>
align="left" class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr">-----Original Message-----
From: mudpuppy [mailto:mudpuppyman@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:02 PM
To: ascension2000
Subject: [asc2k] diversity


>David, I am enjoying your posts very much. Can you tell me what your abbrev..... WCS means?
>
>David says: new members must respect the massive damage that
this man is capable of creating
>
>I don't agree with this. On the one hand you are telling us to avoid criticizing the negative elites, and on the other hand you are suggesting that Simon is so dangerous. To whom, is he dangerous? Only to the most naive and gullible among us, I would think. And don't naive, gullible people have to learn the truth for themself sooner or later? If we cannot accept the negative within the midst of our group, how can we accept the overwhelming negativity that may be exposing itself in the midst of our country and planet in the near future? I'm not suggesting that we allow our group to be destroyed by appeasement of such entities, but I am suggesting that we could "include" such entities up to a point as a part offreedom of expression and encouraging diversity and openness.
>
>mudpuppy

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Jeremy Weiland

02-13-2002, 01:53 PM

Hey y'all,

> I think the main point is he may have broken the
> law, possibly hacking into
> the yahoo member list to get email addys and then
> sending unsolicited emails
> to personal accounts(spam). This to me sounds like
> extreme measures to get
> your point across.

Not to open the floodgates so to speak, but the email
address list is readily available to anybody who is a
member. I won't say how, but every one of us have
access to each of your email addresses. The only way
to protect this list is to make sure the guilty
parties never join the list, which is impossible given
how determined Simon is.

If you don't want to recieve unsolicited email, unplug
your computer, because that's the only way its gonna
work. I don't like getting junk snail mail (and some
of it is of a religious nature) but I deal with it -
and we're gonna have to deal with spam. The increased
communicative possibilities of the internet go hand in
hand with the new ways in which these can be abused.
Sad, but true.

> David, I am enjoying your posts very much. Can
> you tell me what your
> abbrev..... WCS means?

Worst Case Scenario... took me a while to figure it
out, though :-)

> I don't agree with this. On the one hand you are
> telling us to avoid
> criticizing the negative elites, and on the other
> hand you are suggesting
> that Simon is so dangerous. To whom, is he
> dangerous?

I agree with you mudpuppy. I believe that as long as
we have open dialogue on this list, the truth will
prevail. I don't believe that, simply by declaring
Simon anathema, he will disappear, mostly because
we've already tried this and it hasn't worked. Oh
well, if we want to use the internet, we have to
accept such situations.

However, we must also respect that this is David's
list, and ultimately he has the right to run it
however he pleases. My understanding is that Simon
has inflicted some significant damage upon the lives
of others with whom David has been in contact; better
for this damage to be associated with this list as
little as possible. In that respect, I can certainly
understand the paranoia.

> or later? If we cannot
> accept the negative within the midst of our group,
> how can we accept the
> overwhelming negativity that may be exposing itself
> in the midst of our
> country and planet in the near future?

You have a very good point, but accepting Simon's
character is not the same as accepting his actions.
We can reject the service of enslavement while
accepting the service of reflecting our own
unintegrated aspects of ourselves. In a similar way,
just because I don't openly defy the negative elites
in the world does not mean I accept their control over
me. But I can still use the experience to integrate
negative parts of me without acting antagonistically.

> I'm not
> suggesting that we allow our
> group to be destroyed by appeasement of such
> entities, but I am suggesting
> that we could "include" such entities up to a point
> as a part of freedom of
> expression and encouraging diversity and openness.

I can't quite remember when you joined the list,
mudpuppy, so I'm not sure if you recall, but Simon was
quite a pain when we allowed him to speak freely,
mainly b/c he insisted on talking w/o listening. He
has made it clear that his purpose on this list is not
to engage in conversation, but rather proselytizing.
He is not entitled to membership on this list as a
matter of course. It is perfectly legitmate to ask
somebody to leave if their goals are at crosspurposes
with ours.

I think it's safe to say that as long as we handle the
situation delicately, we can learn much from our
encounters with Simon while continuing to reject his
appeals for subservience. I think this should be our
approach regardless of the fact that it will not rid
us of his nuisance (sorry, but that's what it is).

BTW, I realize that terms such as enslavement and
subservience seem harsh. However, since David has
exposed Simon to be rather cultish in nature, we use
such terms to explain his effect energetically upon
us, as all negativity is fundamentally a tendency
towards control.

Peace out,

Jeremy

__________________________________________________
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Mark Ruenes

02-13-2002, 02:44 PM

Someone else received an email to an addy that is not listed in the
directory of members, so other means must have been used.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Weiland [mailto:greenlantern113@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=BFejRYWTXH3JWheQil849dgeUCBjZU1F2sIAhT yTGvaeGKOBn1kcluDa6yYRlo3RUc5-Os226aqgE7lg96n0quJr22U)]
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 3:53 PM
To: asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=ELyWrJKW1iuFNeSnCaWYECFMzBipJRpzD95MqO BnpByyDLUopzqyfCocIwsMxw_Xn1O9bpw4AlhTvTM4h9SW)
Subject: RE: [asc2k] diversity

Hey y'all,

> I think the main point is he may have broken the
> law, possibly hacking into
> the yahoo member list to get email addys and then
> sending unsolicited emails
> to personal accounts(spam). This to me sounds like
> extreme measures to get
> your point across.

Not to open the floodgates so to speak, but the email
address list is readily available to anybody who is a
member. I won't say how, but every one of us have
access to each of your email addresses. The only way
to protect this list is to make sure the guilty
parties never join the list, which is impossible given
how determined Simon is.

If you don't want to recieve unsolicited email, unplug
your computer, because that's the only way its gonna
work. I don't like getting junk snail mail (and some
of it is of a religious nature) but I deal with it -
and we're gonna have to deal with spam. The increased
communicative possibilities of the internet go hand in
hand with the new ways in which these can be abused.
Sad, but true.

> David, I am enjoying your posts very much. Can
> you tell me what your
> abbrev..... WCS means?

Worst Case Scenario... took me a while to figure it
out, though :-)

> I don't agree with this. On the one hand you are
> telling us to avoid
> criticizing the negative elites, and on the other
> hand you are suggesting
> that Simon is so dangerous. To whom, is he
> dangerous?

I agree with you mudpuppy. I believe that as long as
we have open dialogue on this list, the truth will
prevail. I don't believe that, simply by declaring
Simon anathema, he will disappear, mostly because
we've already tried this and it hasn't worked. Oh
well, if we want to use the internet, we have to
accept such situations.

However, we must also respect that this is David's
list, and ultimately he has the right to run it
however he pleases. My understanding is that Simon
has inflicted some significant damage upon the lives
of others with whom David has been in contact; better
for this damage to be associated with this list as
little as possible. In that respect, I can certainly
understand the paranoia.

> or later? If we cannot
> accept the negative within the midst of our group,
> how can we accept the
> overwhelming negativity that may be exposing itself
> in the midst of our
> country and planet in the near future?

You have a very good point, but accepting Simon's
character is not the same as accepting his actions.
We can reject the service of enslavement while
accepting the service of reflecting our own
unintegrated aspects of ourselves. In a similar way,
just because I don't openly defy the negative elites
in the world does not mean I accept their control over
me. But I can still use the experience to integrate
negative parts of me without acting antagonistically.

> I'm not
> suggesting that we allow our
> group to be destroyed by appeasement of such
> entities, but I am suggesting
> that we could "include" such entities up to a point
> as a part of freedom of
> expression and encouraging diversity and openness.

I can't quite remember when you joined the list,
mudpuppy, so I'm not sure if you recall, but Simon was
quite a pain when we allowed him to speak freely,
mainly b/c he insisted on talking w/o listening. He
has made it clear that his purpose on this list is not
to engage in conversation, but rather proselytizing.
He is not entitled to membership on this list as a
matter of course. It is perfectly legitmate to ask
somebody to leave if their goals are at crosspurposes
with ours.

I think it's safe to say that as long as we handle the
situation delicately, we can learn much from our
encounters with Simon while continuing to reject his
appeals for subservience. I think this should be our
approach regardless of the fact that it will not rid
us of his nuisance (sorry, but that's what it is).

BTW, I realize that terms such as enslavement and
subservience seem harsh. However, since David has
exposed Simon to be rather cultish in nature, we use
such terms to explain his effect energetically upon
us, as all negativity is fundamentally a tendency
towards control.

Peace out,

Jeremy

__________________________________________________
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mudpuppy

02-14-2002, 09:32 AM

<table bgColor="#ffffff">
>Jeremy says:
>Simon was quite a pain when we allowed him to speak freely,
mainly, I think b/c he insisted on talking w/o listening.
>
>Look at what you're saying here, Jeremy. You're saying that Simon's a pain because he doesn't listen. You are feeling some pain and you're blaming it on Simon! If we ignored Simon, he wouldn't get any thrill from it and would probably bug out.When someone gets no response, they are left with only their own expression staring them in the face. This is the ultimate response, self reflection! I read a couple of lines of his post to me before I knew anything about him from this group. I realized right off that it was just mumbo jumbo and deleted it without a second thought.You are actually encouraging his behavior! 
>
>Pat says:
>it is not only the truth that we need
but an understanding of the truth. This is
more difficult to obtain in secrecy and closure.
>
>Thanks for your heartwarming , right-on, response, Pat.I think it was Einstein who said something like: First the truth is rejected, then it is reviled,finally it is accepted as obvious.
>
>mudpuppy

Jeremy Weiland

02-14-2002, 11:04 AM

> Look at what you're saying here, Jeremy. You're
> saying that Simon's a pain because he doesn't
> listen. You are feeling some pain and you're
> blaming it on Simon! If we ignored Simon, he
> wouldn't get any thrill from it and would probably
> bug out. When someone gets no response, they are
> left with only their own expression staring them in
> the face. This is the ultimate response, self
> reflection! I read a couple of lines of his post to
> me before I knew anything about him from this group.
> I realized right off that it was just mumbo jumbo
> and deleted it without a second thought. You are
> actually encouraging his behavior!

Sorry, mudpuppy, I don't understand you. How am I
encouraging his behavior? I haven't *done*
anything...

I don't think anybody would assert that Simon's
participation adds to the value of the conversation
here. It's a pain to have to deal with someone who is
blatantly manipulative; it adds a little more stress
to the situation. I'm not going to pretend that
negativity is fun.

However, I completely agree with you that ignoring him
is the only way to deal with him. If blocking him
could work, it would have already. So I think the
best we can do is just identify negativity as we have
always done on this list (even when Simon is not
involved) and just ignore his "contributions". That
doesn't make it a pleasant situation, though.

Simon is a pain in the ass. It doesn't mean, however,
that that has to impact what we do here. But think
about how David feels: his life work is being twisted
and manipulated by some Austrailian guy. It would
piss me off. I think he's handled it pretty well,
considering.

I'm pretty sure you misunderstood my post, since I was
basically saying the exact same thing you are. Sorry
for the confusion (?).

Jeremy

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mudpuppy

02-14-2002, 07:16 PM

<table bgColor="#ffffff">
>Jeremy says: I don't think anybody would assert that Simon's
participation adds to the value of the conversation
here. It's a pain to have to deal with someone who is
blatantly manipulative; it adds a little more stress
to the situation. I'm not going to pretend that
negativity is fun.
>
>Jeremy, I am now asserting that Simon's participation adds to the value of the conversation here. Is that clear?
>In my view, The pain and stress you feel is nothing but your own resistance to Simon. If he wasn't able to push your buttons, then you wouldn't feel the pain. Your pain is already there, he's just bringing it to the surface. He's your liberator.
>In the same way that water moves over, around and through stuff without the slightest "tension", we can move over, around and through Simon or whatever. The only question, it seems, is why do we hold on to our pain, our tension? I'm certainly no free flowing waterfall either, but I do understand that fundamentally I am the one who is "holding myself back", andI am the one who must learn to adapt to ALL circumstances that present themselves,and still bemyself. The water may splash, waves crash, etc. but it's essence never changes......kind of like the evil robot in the terminator, who could not be killed because he was so liquid that he could congeal back again into form. 
Simon and the negatives provide a service. The more negative they are, the better chance they have of ascending themselves! Are we learning anything here?The negatives helpseparate the men from the boys. They force us to polarize! ........to **** or get off the pot!
>The people whoreally bring us downare the people who are straddling the fence!........ The people who are afraid to be themselves!....... The people who don't know that they are God, so they're looking for truth outside themself! We should put all these fence straddlers in a room with Simon and lock the doors!
>
>Now what do you think of them apples!
>
>mudpuppy

Mawk

02-14-2002, 10:22 PM

<table>
>Hi All,
>
>I have to say that I agree with Mudpuppy and Pat. A quote that went something like, "I may not agree with what you say but I defend your right to say it", comes to mind. I found Simon's e-mail a fairly convoluted hybrid of various evangelistic thoughts muddied with an Eastern/ET flavour. In short, like most religious ramblings, it was rubbish in my humble opinion. My personal position is that the only real answers are found by looking within. 
>
>The real question is, "has Simon draggedDavid down rather thanDavid pullingSimon up?" Now that would be a lovely ascension:-)What greater lesson couldDavid gain ifhis chosen path is to become a spiritual teacher? If asDavid's dreams foretell he is to become a more prominent spiritual teacher, then, two points are obvious to me. First he is going to come across more Simons and second he is going to have to learn how to deal with them more effectively. It is my view thatDavid would do better to learn this skill sooner, rather than later, ifhe wants to be effective inhis chosen path. The really work comes from showing people a new way of looking atlife, which clearly David has a gone a long way to doing. I would suggest though, that many on this list were already putting some of these pieces together. The greater challenge is to get those onboard who have zero interest or are taking a more negative path. This is where the greater exposure to the Simons of this world will occur. That is whatDavid's greaterwork should be, in my view, if he is to become a innovative and effective spiritual teacher. 
>
>In my opinion the only rules you need are:
>1. Use appropriate language.
>2. Do not use personal abuse or attacks.
>3. Avoid becoming emotive over issues. 
>4. Stick to the prescribed topics unless the group deems otherwise.
>5. Don't forget Seths editing rules!
>
>Please take the abovein the constructive light in which it has been given.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Mawk
>
>PS - At leastmost of you guys have the Pacific OceandistancingSimon from you. God forbid he might be mynext customer! I guess I will just use my intuition it always seems to work if I listen:-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

ibphyb@...

02-15-2002, 12:58 AM

One thing that I have noticed each time the group has another "simon" event
is how long the discussions continue about what to do or not do about having
had such an event. "This one is criticizing....this one is
defending".....this is duality, separation, this one is negative - we need
rules, don't need rules......

For me, this group has been about sharing wisdom, insight and knowledge.
There are postings that resonate with me and cause me to feel I need to
respond or explore further; other postings I just read and delete. If
something resonates with me and a link or referral to another source of
information was shared, I am the one who makes the decision to puruse further
inquiry. Either way, that need to respond, pursue a deeper truth, or even
the dismissal is my personal choice. If Simon's opinions do not resonate
with me, or any of this group, then just deleting them and not responding to
them denies them any power.

One thing in Alex's post has really stuck out to me....."It makes it very
difficult to function in oneness when negative elements function to pull the
oneness apart, then issues rules of conduct to maintain the duality, the
separation, the conflict by stirring the pot and inviting the Simon's of the
planet into the group to not only participate, but perpetuate the duality,
the separation, and their place in the old world." Two thoughts or questions
stick in my mind concerning that statement and the whole "simon" event: 1.
Aren't we - the group itself, the ones who are creating/perpetuating the
actual separation-duality? Any efforts on Simon's part for
manipulation/negativity were gone when we all recognized them for what they
were at the time he sent us the email. I did receive one and just simply
deleted it. He gained nothing by sending the email but he might be pleased
at how much energy is still in our group debates. 2. Am I totally out in
left field somewhere or have I missed something in my understanding of
"oneness?" Does it also mean always having to be in agreement with others?
Phyllis

Alexander Kavic, M.D.

02-15-2002, 04:45 AM

Hi all,
Like attracts like. Mawk and mudpuppy are defending Simon's negative energy
and then criticizing David. Mawk issues the reprimand, then gives forth
rules of conduct for David and all of us. This now makes Mawk the leader of
our group,(in Mawk's mind), self appointed by Mawk. People of negative
energy always function in the negative mode which makes up the duality.
They function in separation. These are all acts of separation. These acts
of separation go counter to the ascension process. It makes it very
difficult to function in oneness when negative elements function to pull the
oneness apart, then issues rules of conduct to maintain the duality, the
separation, the conflict by stirring the pot and inviting the Simon's of the
planet into the group to not only participate, but perpetuate the duality,
the separation, and their place in the old world. This has been how we have
existed for eons. However, whether these people like it or not, a new world
is arriving. We are now in transition. The process has started. They are
in the kicking and screaming part of their process, but these things will
pass also.
We are all beings of love and light. We live in a holographic universe
where duality, separation, are all an illusion. The hologram will change as
mass consciousness shifts and cosmic energy form a new dimension, where
oneness will prevail. Until then, we are in for an interesting ride.

Love and Light,
WE ARE ONE,
Alex

-----Original Message-----
From: Mawk [mailto:mawk109@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=xSscHWgyMLcFElO7pjDW6B8_MzHTE9JR6lt3ru WMYKT-bWa5wepwobrFsSTIp5DDp5A22p6MSFjQkCU6tiM5)]
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 6:22 AM
To: asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=osGXEFxmvWdSOo4w8rqDbKLWyeAsTEGo9jnP1B UJcHX0lqw-ia5DW-63KzGxYdnxBoXbtZ5_HJE7tyT_mL0)
Subject: RE: [asc2k] re: diversity

Hi All,

I have to say that I agree with Mudpuppy and Pat. A quote that went
something like, "I may not agree with what you say but I defend your right
to say it", comes to mind. I found Simon's e-mail a fairly convoluted hybrid
of various evangelistic thoughts muddied with an Eastern/ET flavour. In
short, like most religious ramblings, it was rubbish in my humble opinion.
My personal position is that the only real answers are found by looking
within.

The real question is, "has Simon dragged David down rather than David
pulling Simon up?" Now that would be a lovely ascension:-)What greater
lesson could David gain if his chosen path is to become a spiritual teacher?
If as David's dreams foretell he is to become a more prominent spiritual
teacher, then, two points are obvious to me. First he is going to come
across more Simons and second he is going to have to learn how to deal with
them more effectively. It is my view that David would do better to learn
this skill sooner, rather than later, if he wants to be effective in his
chosen path. The really work comes from showing people a new way of looking
at life, which clearly David has a gone a long way to doing. I would suggest
though, that many on this list were already putting some of these pieces
together. The greater challenge is to get those onboard who have zero
interest or are taking a more negative path. This is where the greater
exposure to the Simons of this world will occur. That is what David's
greater work should be, in my view, if he is to become a innovative and
effective spiritual teacher.

In my opinion the only rules you need are:
1. Use appropriate language.
2. Do not use personal abuse or attacks.
3. Avoid becoming emotive over issues.
4. Stick to the prescribed topics unless the group deems otherwise.
5. Don't forget Seths editing rules!

Please take the above in the constructive light in which it has been given.

Cheers,

Mawk

PS - At least most of you guys have the Pacific Ocean distancing Simon from
you. God forbid he might be my next customer! I guess I will just use my
intuition it always seems to work if I listen:-)

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Jeremy Weiland

02-15-2002, 08:54 AM

> Jeremy, I am now asserting that Simon's
> participation adds to the value of the conversation
> here. Is that clear?

Yep. And (don't take this the wrong way) if it were
up to you to decide who is allowed on the list and who
isn't, then that assertion might have some merit.

I don't consider this list a democracy by any means.
David started it, and I think he has a perfect right
to dictate the terms of membership. That's not
negativity, that's respect for the ideals with which
this list was started.

> In my view, The pain and stress you feel is nothing
> but your own resistance to Simon. If he wasn't
> able to push your buttons, then you wouldn't feel
> the pain. Your pain is already there, he's just
> bringing it to the surface. He's your liberator.

You could very well be right, mudpuppy. This Simon
experience is probably a manifestation of a personal
issue for me and several others.

*However*, that does not change the fact that this
email list was not created with the purpose of
bringing up every members catalyst. It was created to
facilitate discussion of the material we study and
David's work. I may benefit from further dialogue
with Simon, but that doesn't mean that that dialogue
is appropriate for this forum. That's like saying
that just because I could benefit from the catalyst of
having some awful thing happen to me, I should go out
and seek it.

Furthermore, I think this conversation about how to
deal with Simon is much more productive than simply
allowing Simon to continue, since instead of being
preached to by somebody who has no desire to learn and
grow in a mutually agreeable environment, we are
discussing how to deal with negativity in a very real
and immediate way.

Anyways, I don't think we're gonna be rid of Simon
just because we ask him to leave, so the whole
conversation is theoretical mainly.

> Simon and the negatives provide a service. The
> more negative they are, the better chance they have
> of ascending themselves! Are we learning anything
> here? The negatives help separate the men from the
> boys. They force us to polarize! ........to **** or
> get off the pot!

Yes, Simon does provide a service. However, like I
said before, *we can reject Simon's service w/o
rejecting Simon*. This doesn't mean that there isn't
something Simon can teach us; it has nothing to do
with that. It simply means that we do have free will
and have the right to choose when we learn certain
things. My opinion is that a public email forum is
not the proper place to have such a polarizing
experience.

> The people who really bring us down are the people
> who are straddling the fence! ........ The people
> who are afraid to be themselves! ....... The people
> who don't know that they are God, so they're looking
> for truth outside themself! We should put all
> these fence straddlers in a room with Simon and lock
> the doors!

"Bring us down?" Now who's blaming who for their
problems? Only you can decide what catalyst is right
for you; you can't make the decision for others. I
understand and confirm the wisdom of what you suggest
(as far as benefitting from the catalyst Simon
provides), but I'm saying that this email list is not
the proper place for that. Just like in the Ra
material, we thank the negatives for the invitation to
enslavement, while rejecting their service as not
desirable at this time.

You of course are welcome to engage in private
conversations with Simon or even start your own email
list where he may take part. But ultimately David has
the final say about who may participate on the list.
Right or wrong, that's the way it goes.

Later,

Jeremy

__________________________________________________
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asciilight

02-15-2002, 09:04 AM

Alexander Kavic: Like attracts like. Mawk and mudpuppy are defending
Simon's negative energy and then criticizing David.

Alex... I think you may have misunderstood what Mawk and mudpuppy are
trying to say. They aren't defending Simon as in standing by his
beliefs or encouraging what he is trying to do. They are simply
observing the fact that Simon is STS and saying should we really
reject STS from amongst us. As Ra says without STS and STO
interaction there is not much desire to polarise.

I do however agree with David that Simon should not be allowed in
this group for various reasons. For one I feel Simons actions are a
personal attack on the hard work that David had dedicated his life to
(BTW thanks David, words cant describe my appreciation for what you
are doing here). Also I believe that there are alot of vulnerable
souls who read this list looking for answers and im sure Simon is
very capable of manipulating these entities, banning him would stop
this happening and we would be serving others in doing this.

Another point Alex is that criticizing David does not mean you are a
negative entity, constructive critisism and questioning can help us
all grow and evolve. As David has mentioned before he is not a
spiritual guru, he does not want people to read his material and take
it as gospel or dogma. His work has awakened many souls but it should
not stop there, his work is truly inspirational and should be
encouraging all of us to search answers to our questions together as
a group.

Alex: Mawk issues the reprimand, then gives forth rules of conduct
for David and all of us. This now makes Mawk the leader of
our group,(in Mawk's mind), self appointed by Mawk. People of
negative energy always function in the negative mode which makes up
the duality. They function in separation. These are all acts of
separation. These acts of separation go counter to the ascension
process. It makes it very difficult to function in oneness when
negative elements function to pull the oneness apart, then issues
rules of conduct to maintain the duality, the separation, the
conflict by stirring the pot and inviting the Simon's of the
planet into the group to not only participate, but perpetuate the
duality, the separation, and their place in the old world.

Alex, I honestly think your getting the wrong end of the stick. Mawk
has contributed an awful lot to this group, from what I have seen of
his posts I believe he is certainly not STS. Just because Mawk
diagrees with David does not make him the leader of the group (in his
or anyones mind), just as Davids opinions dont make him the leader of
the group. I think the point your missing is that there is no leader
in this group, as you say 'We are one'.

You say seperation tears apart unity, then why do you choose to
seperate Simon from us? Is this not the same as the seperation you
accuse Mawk of creating?

I think the whole discussion that has developed here is a
misunderstanding, STS and STO must interact that is the nature of our
creation. However in the case of STS and STO interaction on this
list, I think if we can stop it we would benefit from it. We all meet
so much STS in our lives this list is a great comfort because it has
fairly strongly polarised STO members.

P.S. I hope Simon isnt reading all this, seems like hes done what he
intended to do.

Robin.

Mawk

02-15-2002, 05:37 PM

Dear Alex,

Please reread the first paragraph in my previous post. Correct me if I am
wrong but I felt I made it quite clear that I rejected Simon's ideas.

The greater theme of my message concerned teaching. This is an area I have
some experience in. I have been a Paragliding (like hanggliding)Instructor
for six years on a part time basis. It is a dangerous sport, lives are in
the palm of your hand, and I can assure you there is a huge difference
between flying for yourself and finding a safe path for others to learn.
There are many excellent pilots that can't teach and likewise some good
teachers who are not very good pilots. It has been my impression that David
would like to place more emphasis in the future towards the teaching
direction. My personal feelings were that the whole Simon debate could have
been handled better. Alex would you prefer me to be deceptive with how I see
things or maybe just say nothing and let David believe that we all think he
is perfect. From following his posts it is clear he does not think he is
such. I would hope that he would welcome an outside view!

I can't find any negativity in the above or my previous post, from where I
sit it seemed like a positive contribution. If you can clearly show me the
negative aspect to my previous post I will happily leave the group. Which
leads me to your final accusation that I want to lead the group. I can't see
how you came to that conclusion. Is this because I provide my thoughts on
what would could be some reasonable guidelines for the moderation of the
group? I can assure you I do not have a Machiavellian nature and I have no
desire to become a figurehead. What you see (read) is what you get. Clearly
that is my view and of course you are welcome to your own. The reason I use
the name "Mawk" to post under is because I like my privacy.

If I am guilty of anything it is probably discretion. It would have probably
been more appropriate to address these concerns privately to David. For this
I apologise to him.

Yours Sincerely,

Mawk

PS - Robin many thanks for illuminating my thoughts.

Alexander Kavic, M.D.

02-16-2002, 02:15 AM

Dear Mawk,

The impression that I got was what I put in my post. Like you, I laid it
all out there as I felt it at that time. I have no desire to prove your
energy polarity one way or another, especially if it would result in your
leaving the group. That would only be unlovingkind on my part. I thank you
for your clarification from your perspective and that positive reaffirmation
leads to bonding and merging of the group. From my viewpoint, I apologize
for being intense in my language as I saw things at the time. Each of us
has a path that we live, and we each are separated, free will, individuated
soul people living our own individual lives, gaining knowledge, experience,
and wisdom, which someday, somehow, we take back to our creator source.
Each of us is a part of all that is one. Even the negative energy entities
are an aspect of all that is, and they have their own paths back to source.
As we all communicate one with one with one, and one among one among one, we
exchange energy back and forth, hopefully bringing us all together in
oneness as a part of the ascencion process. It is my intention to honor and
respect all life force on the planet, and all life force. In this regard, I
respect and honor you, and all in the group.

Love and Light,
WE ARE ONE,
Alex

-----Original Message-----
From: Mawk [mailto:mawk109@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=HzZAe4nSPEFGPnPj14OdptYwgcrq87X65a9H4c aFCl1YvN-eq0yZTBz-W0Gg_kWeL5Zw3_jdPOnnGd3b)]
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 1:37 AM
To: asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=iBJT76XyH2Cw3hkwS-RhnQIxghfUhCorqmErmfqG0e3JkuvV6SGGLj5bgdQomqIOq75h 6W-ZZqfefNyF)
Subject: RE: [asc2k] re: diversity

Dear Alex,

Please reread the first paragraph in my previous post. Correct me if I am
wrong but I felt I made it quite clear that I rejected Simon's ideas.

The greater theme of my message concerned teaching. This is an area I have
some experience in. I have been a Paragliding (like hanggliding)Instructor
for six years on a part time basis. It is a dangerous sport, lives are in
the palm of your hand, and I can assure you there is a huge difference
between flying for yourself and finding a safe path for others to learn.
There are many excellent pilots that can't teach and likewise some good
teachers who are not very good pilots. It has been my impression that David
would like to place more emphasis in the future towards the teaching
direction. My personal feelings were that the whole Simon debate could have
been handled better. Alex would you prefer me to be deceptive with how I see
things or maybe just say nothing and let David believe that we all think he
is perfect. From following his posts it is clear he does not think he is
such. I would hope that he would welcome an outside view!

I can't find any negativity in the above or my previous post, from where I
sit it seemed like a positive contribution. If you can clearly show me the
negative aspect to my previous post I will happily leave the group. Which
leads me to your final accusation that I want to lead the group. I can't see
how you came to that conclusion. Is this because I provide my thoughts on
what would could be some reasonable guidelines for the moderation of the
group? I can assure you I do not have a Machiavellian nature and I have no
desire to become a figurehead. What you see (read) is what you get. Clearly
that is my view and of course you are welcome to your own. The reason I use
the name "Mawk" to post under is because I like my privacy.

If I am guilty of anything it is probably discretion. It would have probably
been more appropriate to address these concerns privately to David. For this
I apologise to him.

Yours Sincerely,

Mawk

PS - Robin many thanks for illuminating my thoughts.

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Sunny One

02-16-2002, 11:30 PM

Dear Dr. Kavic,

This is a noble thing, to both show spontaneously
how you feel, reflect on it, then come back and
make ammends.

I have spat so many harsh bitter words,
that to make ammends for me is hopeless;
I am a lost cause; it is easier to
die and go to hell.

But I do respect your gesture and your humility.
You are a model of possibility.

Pat

--- "Alexander Kavic, M.D." <akavic@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=5Qrg2wYrwdHbMvMnF1pLzCq1pOPN_fKOOk6q1S MNWcU_NeP-wyrR9ENUXToRPL60M8xutav9hRPTyMx0)>
wrote:
> Dear Mawk,
>
> The impression that I got was what I put in my post.
> Like you, I laid it
> all out there as I felt it at that time. I have no
> desire to prove your
> energy polarity one way or another, especially if it
> would result in your
> leaving the group. That would only be unlovingkind
> on my part. I thank you
> for your clarification from your perspective and
> that positive reaffirmation
> leads to bonding and merging of the group. From my
> viewpoint, I apologize
> for being intense in my language as I saw things at
> the time. Each of us
> has a path that we live, and we each are separated,
> free will, individuated
> soul people living our own individual lives, gaining
> knowledge, experience,
> and wisdom, which someday, somehow, we take back to
> our creator source.
> Each of us is a part of all that is one. Even the
> negative energy entities
> are an aspect of all that is, and they have their
> own paths back to source.
> As we all communicate one with one with one, and one
> among one among one, we
> exchange energy back and forth, hopefully bringing
> us all together in
> oneness as a part of the ascencion process. It is
> my intention to honor and
> respect all life force on the planet, and all life
> force. In this regard, I
> respect and honor you, and all in the group.
>
> Love and Light,
> WE ARE ONE,
> Alex
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mawk [mailto:mawk109@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=v_3Pj2kGW9iqJgLMZebFUQa2bllmh0vtzz6sEq 79dhT_U2sUfi9vnJbc_Ax0OzEP8mhZoEFVBzZJu0_5)]
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 1:37 AM
> To: asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=BJrwXBM2glCbJ0BX6AgCmaIf5H05v10H-e6F-Wx3M40VF8jkuhHpICojI1i4VbFTNvpmFtjohg8j26s)
> Subject: RE: [asc2k] re: diversity
>
>
> Dear Alex,
>
> Please reread the first paragraph in my previous
> post. Correct me if I am
> wrong but I felt I made it quite clear that I
> rejected Simon's ideas.
>
> The greater theme of my message concerned teaching.
> This is an area I have
> some experience in. I have been a Paragliding (like
> hanggliding)Instructor
> for six years on a part time basis. It is a
> dangerous sport, lives are in
> the palm of your hand, and I can assure you there is
> a huge difference
> between flying for yourself and finding a safe path
> for others to learn.
> There are many excellent pilots that can't teach and
> likewise some good
> teachers who are not very good pilots. It has been
> my impression that David
> would like to place more emphasis in the future
> towards the teaching
> direction. My personal feelings were that the whole
> Simon debate could have
> been handled better. Alex would you prefer me to be
> deceptive with how I see
> things or maybe just say nothing and let David
> believe that we all think he
> is perfect. From following his posts it is clear he
> does not think he is
> such. I would hope that he would welcome an outside
> view!
>
> I can't find any negativity in the above or my
> previous post, from where I
> sit it seemed like a positive contribution. If you
> can clearly show me the
> negative aspect to my previous post I will happily
> leave the group. Which
> leads me to your final accusation that I want to
> lead the group. I can't see
> how you came to that conclusion. Is this because I
> provide my thoughts on
> what would could be some reasonable guidelines for
> the moderation of the
> group? I can assure you I do not have a
> Machiavellian nature and I have no
> desire to become a figurehead. What you see (read)
> is what you get. Clearly
> that is my view and of course you are welcome to
> your own. The reason I use
> the name "Mawk" to post under is because I like my
> privacy.
>
> If I am guilty of anything it is probably
> discretion. It would have probably
> been more appropriate to address these concerns
> privately to David. For this
> I apologise to him.
>
> Yours Sincerely,
>
> Mawk
>
> PS - Robin many thanks for illuminating my thoughts.
>
>
>
>
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> id=39249818&bfpage=moneyyahoo4>
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> l/S=1705082805:HM/A=960173/rand=591971020>
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Mawk

02-16-2002, 11:45 PM

Hi Alex,

I am humbled by your thoughtful response. I am wiser for the experience and
in future will endeavor to provide great clarity in my posts.

Yours truly,

Mawk