The meek shall inherit this forum?

[Ron Erickson]

The Christian sermon excerpt "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit
the earth" is a very positive message as long as we take "meek" to mean
gentle, humble and considerate - which is to say "STO oriented" - which is
how it was intended. "Meek", however, can also be taken to mean cowardly,
ineffectual and unoriginal. I believe that most people here are meek in the
positive sense, and those that are "non-meek" tend to move on - sometimes
due to expulsion. I imagine that someone who is "negatively non-meek" is
the classic STS individual - who would have difficulty getting along with
anyone, and I'm not quite sure what "negatively meek" entails, but it sounds
like someone who is suffering internally. I think that even the most
positive among us have some of this negative meekness hidden away somewhere.

For me, the following is one of the more memorable quotes from the film/book
"What the Bleep Do We Know?" (in "Epilogue: A Quantum Feast", page 238):

"Great Minds talk about Ideas.
Average minds talk about Events.
Small minds talk about People."

I am not intending to be immodest, but I have always been very interested in
ideas - as anyone who has read my postings will attest. Now, please
review/recall the Asc2k forum archives and consider what subjects get
discussed at length - mostly these are about events and/or people. Now, I
rarely get any responses to my messages in this forum - which are almost
always about ideas. I'm not complaining about this, but I simply pose this
question: What does this say about the interests of the group membership?
It could be that my content is too esoteric for this group - or perhaps I am
being too self-absorbed in my presentation of these ideas. I am, however,
also involved with other forums and have a personal network of individuals
with whom we share a comparable level of passion for these sorts of ideas
and discussions. The fact is, Asc2k is essentially an online new age
church - with a self-appointed minister/priest/rabbi/guru/sage (choose your
terminology) and a set of gospels. It might not appear to be conventional
or hierarchical, but let's be clear - it is for followers/students of this
church and its teachings - and not for independent visionaries who walk an
unstructured path towards enlightenment.

I seem to recall someone commenting that most members of this forum don't
participate actively - and some "lurker" members have never posted a single
message. I have been a member of this forum for the past few years and I
used to post regularly, but now it seems worth it only if I had written most
of the content for some other context - for then I know that it would
actually be read by someone. I have remained a member because occasionally
there are some interesting postings and occasionally people do respond to my
postings. Also, I, like Mark and Gayle, have found lots of interesting
external reading material through links provided by "Light Eye" David and
other scholars.

Ron

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[E. Drake]

You are new to me Ron, but I for one would love to see you post more then. Lets
have a look. There are perhaps newer members now come out of lurking, or newer
ones just joined.

Ron Erickson <ronerick1@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=zXMorXgAJNzw4DqK_WMMgALrVlQwf2RdH95TvH im7vobnydNw5clWgKYV-bW6mx1THHWXtye3M4CQA)> wrote:
<snip> For me, the following is one of the more memorable quotes from the
film/book
"What the Bleep Do We Know?" (in "Epilogue: A Quantum Feast", page 238):

"Great Minds talk about Ideas.
Average minds talk about Events.
Small minds talk about People."

<snip> The fact is, Asc2k is essentially an online new age church - with a
self-appointed minister/priest/rabbi/guru/sage (choose your
terminology) and a set of gospels. It might not appear to be conventional or
hierarchical, but let's be clear - it is for followers/students of this church
and its teachings - and not for independent visionaries who walk an unstructured
path towards enlightenment.

Ron





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[E. Drake]

Dear Ron,
On re-reading your comment below, which just I snipped a moment ago in
response to your post, and sent off to asc2k to be posted, I would like to add
that although there have been challenges to certain questionable interpretations
that David may have made, by myself or others, it was to "the ideas" and to "the
information" , "and/or interpretations thereof" that these were questioned. *Not
the man*. It may seem odd that I would now challenge you Ron, and seemingly
defend David, but it is really quite easy when one stays on point to "ideas", as
you state, and "not to persoanlity". Staying on point to "ideas" is a bit
different than it is to the man or his personality. Thus stating that David is a
" self-appointed minister/priest/rabbi/guru/sage (choose your terminology)" , as
you say, with "a set of gospels" strikes me more as a statement "to the
personality" than it does to the information or message which the personality
may espouse. That you feel it is " for
followers/students of this church (asc2k) and its teachings - and not for
independent visionaries who walk an unstructured path towards enlightenment"
brings up your own participation in question as much as it does every one elses,
thus addressing personality once again, and which certainly addresses the
group's personality verses their discussion/participation/dialogs, ie. "their
ideas."

Just a consideration and mirror offered.

Faithfully,

Drake

Ron Erickson <ronerick1@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=GBct9nHs9bULkb28vMp1sUIISr6w1A0FKHEnp6 7ZqvsWOdlyZc_t4bRMc1_8ch1kLEjX6XBfhzw)> wrote:

<snip> The fact is, Asc2k is essentially an online new age church - with a
self-appointed minister/priest/rabbi/guru/sage (choose your
terminology) and a set of gospels. It might not appear to be conventional or
hierarchical, but let's be clear - it is for followers/students of this church
and its teachings - and not for independent visionaries who walk an unstructured
path towards enlightenment.




---------------------------------
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used cars.

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[Chris Hamilton]

I apologize if this goes thru twice. Chris

> From: "Ron Erickson" <ronerick1@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=fAggItowoBrKxr3A3eNMQrEFBK6rlMjtX3IUI_ yaingfZcA1se5AopFb9EZrNPP5Rg1wfws7rn4X)>
> Now, I rarely get any responses to my messages in this forum - which are
> almost
> always about ideas. I'm not complaining about this, but I simply pose
> this
> question: What does this say about the interests of the group membership?
>
> Hello Ron,
>
> In all fairness here, I did a search of your posts in the archives, and
> there were
> many of your posts in which others exchanged ideas with you and you were
> listed quite often with remarks. So, what DOES this say about the
> interests of our
> group? It says they cared about what you said and took the time to speak
> to you. Chris
>
> R: I have remained a member because occasionally there are some
> interesting
> postings and occasionally people do respond to my postings.
>
> Chris: Again, I think your memory fails you. Go look in the archives
> yourself.
>
> R: Also, I, like Mark and Gayle, have found lots of interesting external
> reading
> material through links provided by "Light Eye" David and other scholars.
>
> Chris: Just remember that we do not make you stay here. And, might I say,
> that for any of the others who may send emails about their
> disatisfaction with the group dynamics, that we do not make you stay here.
> This forum is beneficial for many members, so I kindly say that if you
> really
> are not deriving anything from our group, that you don't have to stay.
> But, to berate the members who participate is like being the bully at
> school recess and this is not welcome. Let us please be more considerate
> of our fellow members and develop some tact and maturity.
>
>
>

[Ron Erickson]

Hi Drake,

I was not intending to speak against David nor his work. I was essentially just
paraphrazing the Asc2k Rules.txt document that Chris sends out to us regularly.
This document is quite clear about the intended scope of the forum discussions
and I agree that any discussion group should have such a document to articulate
its focus. When I describe this forum as an "online new age church", this is
purely descriptive and not intended with any negativity or judgement. I am
simply using an analogy - such that a hypothetical religion would likely have
some sort of leader/teacher (called a "minister/priest/rabbi/guru/sage" in some
traditional cases) and a set of documents that are analogous to gospels or
scriptures (borrowing Christian terminology). In the case of The Law of One,
these just happen to be The Law of One, Ra documents and various writings by
David Wilcock and others. In my comment about the general focus of the
discussions being more about events and people than about ideas, I was not
referring to any specific discussions involving yourself (Drake) nor David.

My point is that we are each unique individuals with different needs and
interests. Some of us are looking for answers and security, while others are
fascinated by the grand mysteries of the universe and want to ask the biggest
possible questions. For me, this journey is what is most important - not to go
to a specfic place, or to hold a specific answer, but to live courageously - to
"take the plunge". The nature of any religion is such that it can only start
one on their personal spiritual journey. The next step is to put this knowledge
into action - not just to reflect upon it with academic detachment, but rather
to "live it" in the immediate and continuous present. To "live it" is to
connect in oneness - it's not a thing but rather an on-going action. I find
that for me, my artwork and my music are both part of this reality. Art and
spirituality are both about passion more than thought... A sculptor might
experience his work as "sensual" - perhaps even erotic. Indeed, making art and
making love have more in common than we might suppose. What I sometimes see as
missing from this forum is passion. My postings tend to be intense, personal
and even passionate - but for the most part they seem to have fallen on deaf
ears.

Something to imagine: Being stuck inside of a box, like a coffin, that you are
not allowed to see out of, and now a warm sun rising at the infinite horizon.

Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: E. Drake
To: asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=AvmN8mFmKysSHxKfFnJamFwH08vgmkUA-6-kT3x24dHrgH4fsXxrxqz-yyR-qEPWbF2TfyiFHtTHS0E)
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [asc2k] The meek shall inherit this forum?


Dear Ron,
On re-reading your comment below, which just I snipped a moment ago in
response to your post, and sent off to asc2k to be posted, I would like to add
that although there have been challenges to certain questionable interpretations
that David may have made, by myself or others, it was to "the ideas" and to "the
information" , "and/or interpretations thereof" that these were questioned. *Not
the man*. It may seem odd that I would now challenge you Ron, and seemingly
defend David, but it is really quite easy when one stays on point to "ideas", as
you state, and "not to persoanlity". Staying on point to "ideas" is a bit
different than it is to the man or his personality. Thus stating that David is a
" self-appointed minister/priest/rabbi/guru/sage (choose your terminology)" , as
you say, with "a set of gospels" strikes me more as a statement "to the
personality" than it does to the information or message which the personality
may espouse. That you feel it is " for
followers/students of this church (asc2k) and its teachings - and not for
independent visionaries who walk an unstructured path towards enlightenment"
brings up your own participation in question as much as it does every one elses,
thus addressing personality once again, and which certainly addresses the
group's personality verses their discussion/participation/dialogs, ie. "their
ideas."

Just a consideration and mirror offered.

Faithfully,

Drake

Ron Erickson <ronerick1@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=KVigTaMWUBgBXKMMzjS8-eQWlzhq3txHcvVg5jV2YRU2vlvSw2jLUjvPsir63-BbIDltc3CbXtNGmkI)> wrote:

<snip> The fact is, Asc2k is essentially an online new age church - with a
self-appointed minister/priest/rabbi/guru/sage (choose your
terminology) and a set of gospels. It might not appear to be conventional or
hierarchical, but let's be clear - it is for followers/students of this church
and its teachings - and not for independent visionaries who walk an unstructured
path towards enlightenment.




---------------------------------
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and used cars.

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[Mark Stringfellow]

-
> "Great Minds talk about Ideas.
> Average minds talk about Events.
> Small minds talk about People."
>
> Although I sympathize with any frustration you may be feeling about
the group and some of the goings on here, I would like to point out
and expand upon the above offering.

Ron, we are all just souls. Souls at various stages of evolution.
Strangely, you have pointed out just how those evolutionary conditions
manifest on our tiny globe.

"Small minds talk about People." Ain't it so? You have just described
the herd mentality. The vast majority of people on the planet. And how
do small minds graduate to the Average status? By coming to realize
that People create and shape Events. And in creating Events, through
time and evolution, the Average mind comes to realize that the Event
is often shaped by the Ideas of the Great minds. And so, they realize
there is somewhere yet to go. Another level to strive for. The Average
mind becomes the individual or what Jung calls, 'the individuated'
mind. The iconoclast, genius, maverick, and eccentric. It is through
this stretching of the mind that the Average mind begins to hone the
craft of Ideas. This is a smaller segment of society. About thirty
percent I would venture. Woven throughout these various stages on the
evolutionary ladder are many rungs within these states of being.
However, I believe you left out a state of being. Ideas are great, and
striving for intellectual mastery commendable. But sadly, these Ideas
are merely the bi-product of a much deeper state of being. At the
heart of any great Idea is the creative well-spring from which all
thought and Ideas have their beginning. The source of spirit. Sparks
of the Infinite. This is the Spiritual state of being. And there are
few who are on this evolutionary rung. So I would add this to your
offering: "Spiritual minds speak of Understanding."

So as you gaze upon all the rest of us in your 'tower of ideas,' I
would ask that you consider the small mind that seeks their answers in
the faces of people. That you grasp the meaning of the average mind
when they place importance upon events. And as you gather with the
other great minds, think on what motivates all minds as they strive
against the current of opposition. Then, my friend, you will have
caught a glimpse of the Spirit that animates all of which you speak,
and you will have come to an Understanding of how and why it is so.
And there may you find peace and in doing so come to understand what
the ancient proverb meant when it was proclaimed, "Be still and know
that I am God."

Isn't that a great Idea?

[Ron Erickson]

Chris: In all fairness here, I did a search of your posts in the archives,
and there were many of your posts in which others exchanged ideas with you
and you were listed quite often with remarks. So, what DOES this say about
the interests of our group? It says they cared about what you said and took
the time to speak to you.

Ron: I said "I have been a member of this forum for the past few years and I
used to post regularly.." What I am saying here is that I had been posting
(and also receiving) messages fairly regularly at one time. Then I said
"Now, I rarely get any responses to my messages in this forum - which are
almost always about ideas.". Below is a complete summary of all my message
posts since 01/08/2005 (except for those concerning my recent email address
change).

1. The Golden Age and the emergence of homo-luminous 01/08/2005 - no
response
2. Visions of Light and Dark 06/08/2005 - 1 response thread
3. Re: What is Genius, really? 10/08/2005 - no response
4. Re: [asc2k] 2012 13/08/2005 - 1 response
5. Re: [asc2k] New here/Welcome 25/09/2005 - 1 response thread
6. Re: [asc2k] Music, Consciousness, and Subtle Bodies 14/12/2005 - no
response
7. Re: [asc2k] US Naval Observatory To Add Leap Second To Clock 25/12/2005 -
no response
8. Re: A Real "Theory of Everything" 01/01/2006 - no response
9. The "Harmonic Scale" 21/01/2006 - no response before I wrote "The meek
shall inherit this forum?"

Chris: Again, I think your memory fails you. Go look in the archives
yourself.

Ron: I have, and I believe that the archives do support my statements.

Chris: Just remember that we do not make you stay here. And, might I say,
that for any of the others who may send emails about their disatisfaction
with the group dynamics, that we do not make you stay here. This forum is
beneficial for many members, so I kindly say that if you really are not
deriving anything from our group, that you don't have to stay. But, to
berate the members who participate is like being the bully at school recess
and this is not welcome. Let us please be more considerate of our fellow
members and develop some tact and maturity.

Ron: Ouch - where is all of this negative energy coming from? I am "only
human" for sure, but a tactless, immature bully? - now that's just being
mean. It's interesting that I can write grand theories about the nature of
reality and no one responds, but if I just step on a few toes (even though
that was not my intention) - that gets all kinds of responses. I believe
this does say something about what people care about.

__________________________________________________
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[Ken Rozsahegyi]

Ron wrote: "The fact is, Asc2k is essentially an online new age
church..."

Agreed, this is more like a TRUE church to me. I have a commentary
to make on churches - let me explain...

I understand the TRUE definition of "church" to be the collective,
open-minded, supportive, truth-seeking movement of group of souls as
a shared experience. It's not a building, not an organization, not a
hierarchy, not a set of rules and controls. This "true" definition
of "church" is surely what was meant when used in gospels and other
early christian writings. In this way Asc2k IS a really great church.

I think history demonstrates the tendency to destroy the
spirituality of true churches when a "True" church is captured and
formalized into a conventional "this world" organization. I've
studied organizational theory and behavior, and the same patterns of
human weakness typically surface within EVERY man-made organization,
including religious ones (don't we know it!).

Organizations fail for spirituality when they 1) finitely define
themselves, 2) seek to perpetuate themselves and expand influence
and importance 3) establish a hierarchy with rules and controls 4)
seek money and power to fuel the above objectives 5) offer
individuals the gratification of power, influence, and fame.

Because of this, "Religion" has become a term understood by us as
something fixed, rigid, and given, with no progress, flexibility or
movement. Religion has become more of "this world."

The behavior of people who declare themselves as members of an
organization also fall typically in the same old patterns of social
group dynamics (some are dominant and seek power, some challenging,
some following, some play jester, some indifferent, indecisive, some
victimized, some needy, etc).

The best among members are always marginalized because they don't
compete(attack & defend). The organization falls under low-level
controllers.

The same inter-personal political, competitive power plays occur in
every organization. Most individuals each seek to meet their self-
needs, and exchange roles(leader, follower, jester) as members
change.

Because they meet the self-needs of members so well, and are rigidly
single-minded, religions and corporations have become the dominant
players in "this world".

An inspiration is the story of Saint Francis of Assisi (who is
probably the most popular figure in the highly organized
Catholic "Church") who was a naturalist who felt called to "rebuild
the (true)church". He openly challenged the Pope by renouncing
Rome's addiction to power & wealth, recognition. He forebade his
followers to set up any organization (religious order) around him.
They did anyway after he died!(Franciscans). I don't think Jesus set
up any organizations either, but sought a true "church" reaching out
to everyone ("my kingdom is not of this world"). The formal
organizations came later to dim the light.

That said, it's still possible to "see the light" if you wipe away
the dust and grime of the stained glass window and actually look
through it, not at it. To paraphrase from Eric Butterworth
again, "Jesus invited others to look through the window of spirit
WITH him. In time, the window was enshrined, and became dusty, and
people came to worship by the window where the invitation took
place, and few ever wipe the dust away and actually look through it
to SEE...."

Moral of this story is let's keep the asc2k church out of "this"
world...(RA would agree, no?)

from a past truth-seeking, hard-kneed alter-boy!...
Ken

[Chris Hamilton]

From: "Ron Erickson" <ronerick1@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=v5781sCJEMNjoIVsUMZI_U3LbL9sJfFOxBfsSC AbV5audxKUMJxZOzwl7epAGZoZyZq0RVlHB4iZg6-_rw)>
> Ron: Then I said "Now, I rarely get any responses to my messages in
> this forum - which are
> almost always about ideas.". Below is a complete summary of all my
> message posts since 01/08/2005 (except for those concerning my recent
> email address
> change).

Chris: The ones you listed were only a portion of the posts you actually had
on the site. You responded to many more threads. I just think that possibly
you are exageratng your position here? Maybe just a little?

> Chris: Let us please be more considerate of our fellow members and
> develop some tact and maturity.
>
> Ron: Ouch - where is all of this negative energy coming from? I am "only
> human" for sure, but a tactless, immature bully? - now that's just being
> mean.

Chris: There are people on this forum who interpreted your church and guru
remark to indicate that we are an elitist group of some kind. Yours truly
included. For many of us here, church is equated with blind following and
conditioning, If this was misinterpreted, I sincerely apologize, but I don't
believe your words were very well chosen because of the symbolisms they
invoke.

[Chris Hamilton]

From: "Ken Rozsahegyi" <kenroz@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=wK8UFOOPW2-nLZunNDKgC4a_gVTRV7WNgvP-DzGn8e_hOLwgN5CLVTeMk8tFcPOvbEQWqdS-zqrL)>
>
> I understand the TRUE definition of "church" to be the collective, >
> open-minded, supportive, truth-seeking movement of group of souls as
> a shared experience. It's not a building, not an organization, not a
> hierarchy, not a set of rules and controls. This "true" definition
> of "church" is surely what was meant when used in gospels and other
> early christian writings. In this way Asc2k IS a really great church.

Chris: Thank you Ken for this. It is a great way to say to Ron that I
completely took his statement the wrong way, as did others. Sorry Ron.

[E. Drake]

Ron Erickson <ronerick1@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=EgzadzpAPROzeCauwDgosXIg-pN-tu30Lr99Q9-musbWrShc7qOUQpvJ-M6eQWq9M-7Z109hGT12nRyVIw)> wrote: Hi Drake,
<snip> "When I describe this forum as an "online new age church", this is purely
descriptive and not intended with any negativity or judgement. I am simply
using an analogy - such that a hypothetical religion would likely have some sort
of leader/teacher (called a "minister/priest/rabbi/guru/sage" in some
traditional cases) and a set of documents that are analogous to gospels or
scriptures (borrowing Christian terminology).

Drake: Point well spoken and received Ron. My post was offered as a mirror for
consideration only. Ideas are paramount to discussion for depth, as opposed to
conversations against or involving personality.

Ron: My point is that we are each unique individuals with different needs and
interests. Some of us are looking for answers and security, while others are
fascinated by the grand mysteries of the universe and want to ask the biggest
possible questions.

Drake: This speaks very well to Ken's point below
Ken Rozsahegyi <kenroz@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=9cyCUjM1QKUrBvFJy1K2QZ3AEGhFtrsrVIOMPm jLR8qJItRqMUNRyl5HG3KuI_l2rxkv93wFLvEw-CqmY8E)> wrote:
The behavior of people who declare themselves as members of an organization
also fall typically in the same old patterns of social group dynamics (some are
dominant and seek power, some challenging, some following, some play jester,
some indifferent, indecisive, some victimized, some needy, etc.

Drake: I would offer to the group that showing a guest the door each time they
speak a challenging sentiment is a bit harsh and crude, and that doing so is out
of line with LoO teachings and principles. It would behoove us first to invite
them back into the fold as a first measure. They often make for the very best of
dinner guests and stimulating of discussions.

I hope Ron, my response was received as an offer for consideration, rather
than stern finger pointing. Sadly, "speaking to ideas" often is perceived as
"speaking against the personality" which espouses those ideas, as we have all
witnessed in the case of the 16 point accusation leveled against me by DW. That
I forgive him is a was, and different than holding him nonetheless accountable
as I/he should. Separating "ideas from personality" requires a maturity and an
academic willingness to disengage one from the other. But this speaks again to
his personality, not his ideas. The vast and great majority of his ideas are
wonderful. We're all in this together, Ron, Ken, Zia, Prrrba, Drake, Monica,
Neil, David, Tobey, Carla, ad infinitum.

As Yoda stated in Star Wars: "Difficult it is being in 3D , as much as
difficult it is for Kermit the Frog green to be." But alas Star War fans,
green he is, and "here" we are, and green we continue in our ways.

Faithfully,

Drake







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[pschutzy]

Thank you for this beautiful post!
From all of us who are great spirits but are less than great
navigators in the world of words and the intellect. Thank you for
recognizing the spirit and the unquenchable thirst for more, that
goes beyond words.
Thank you for bringing to the forefront the need to see our Oneness
in all of us.
The beauty is in the Unity.

Blessings and Joy
Patty


--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=DE4tAW4oak8ALbLRLo3X_r6MoYAfS4GRDtlhH5 6drswZHCnqkVWlvmqNZMB51VJ04C__4oIIScl8RLEqIhs), "Mark Stringfellow" <open2itonce@y...>
wrote:
> So as you gaze upon all the rest of us in your 'tower of ideas,' I
> would ask that you consider the small mind that seeks their
answers in
> the faces of people. That you grasp the meaning of the average mind
> when they place importance upon events. And as you gather with the
> other great minds, think on what motivates all minds as they strive
> against the current of opposition. Then, my friend, you will have
> caught a glimpse of the Spirit that animates all of which you
speak,
> and you will have come to an Understanding of how and why it is so.
> And there may you find peace and in doing so come to understand
what
> the ancient proverb meant when it was proclaimed, "Be still and
know
> that I am God."
>
> Isn't that a great Idea?
>

[Ron Erickson]

Mark: "Small minds talk about People." Ain't it so? You have just described the
herd mentality. The vast majority of people on the planet. And how do small
minds graduate to the Average status? By coming to realize that People create
and shape Events. And in creating Events, through time and evolution, the
Average mind comes to realize that the Event is often shaped by the Ideas of the
Great minds. And so, they realize there is somewhere yet to go. Another level to
strive for. The Average mind becomes the individual or what Jung calls, 'the
individuated' mind. The iconoclast, genius, maverick, and eccentric. It is
through this stretching of the mind that the Average mind begins to hone the
craft of Ideas. This is a smaller segment of society. About thirty percent I
would venture. Woven throughout these various stages on the evolutionary ladder
are many rungs within these states of being. However, I believe you left out a
state of being. Ideas are great, and striving for intellectual mastery
commendable. But sadly, these Ideas are merely the bi-product of a much deeper
state of being. At the heart of any great Idea is the creative well-spring from
which all thought and Ideas have their beginning. The source of spirit. Sparks
of the Infinite. This is the Spiritual state of being. And there are few who are
on this evolutionary rung. So I would add this to your offering: "Spiritual
minds speak of Understanding."

Ron: I enjoy your writing and appreciate your vision. Please note that I did
not write the text about great minds / average minds / small minds - I merely
quoted it, so it would not have been appropriate for me to alter/preface it with
a line such as "Spiritual minds speak of Understanding." - although I agree that
it might be more pertinent if included. Indeed, there could be eight lines -
one for each "vibrational density" - although it is hard to imagine 1D entities
talking :).

Mark: So as you gaze upon all the rest of us in your 'tower of ideas,' I would
ask that you consider the small mind that seeks their answers in the faces of
people. That you grasp the meaning of the average mind when they place
importance upon events. And as you gather with the other great minds, think on
what motivates all minds as they strive against the current of opposition. Then,
my friend, you will have caught a glimpse of the Spirit that animates all of
which you speak, and you will have come to an Understanding of how and why it is
so. And there may you find peace and in doing so come to understand what the
ancient proverb meant when it was proclaimed, "Be still and know that I am God."

Ron: I think that if you met me and spoke to me in person, that you would find
me not nearly as arrogant as I might seem in some of my writing. My writing is
often motivated more by momentary passion than by any concept of superiority.
It is true that I am interested in ideas, but I am not saying - and nor do I
believe that I am unique for this reason. In fact, I see myself as a lifetime
(humble) student - seeking insights from those who have better ideas, and a more
mature vision of life and its meaning. Such teachers are around me everywhere,
both men and women (and sometimes even children), in all walks of life, and
certainly these individuals are among those in this forum. Like many of us, I
was actually more self-confident in my abilities when I was yonger, in my 20s -
but now I am 48 years old, and life has humbled me quite a bit over the years.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mark Stringfellow]

---
Hi Ron,
I was aware that you were quoting your source. However, when
someone uses a quote it generally is used to express a point of
view held by the one who supplied the quote. So, within that context
I feel no compunction about adding to someone elses work. "One plants
the seed, another waters."

I am glad you seemed to understand the purpose of why I answered your
post. I too, have a tendency to speak from my passion, and it has
caused me to be misunderstood many times. People often respond more to
the emotion/passion of a statement than the words. I've heard it said
that, "Passion unguided by reason is like a ship at full sail without
a rudder." Thank you for your kind words about my vision. However, I
believe you will find its a shared vision with many on this list.
Sometimes, as those who seek to be light-workers, we have to be
reminded we are still in a physical form. Jesus, being the avatar of
the current age taught us all that what needed to be integrated in our
journey was a compassion and understanding of all humanity in order to
maintain a clear vision for the work ahead. When everything seems to
be overwhelming and pointless, always remember to trust understanding
and compassion. It is a balm to an otherwise unhealthy and maddening
enviornment that we find ourselve within.

Peace

Mark

[Mark Stringfellow]

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=-1_khORrS-OioNxVWmfucrTfGESANJwOlIqyufBKdOANy6O6NBMT54SmwWxN FyNALLOgJ1mSS-QtbAfjFyk9), "pschutzy" <schutzy11@b...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for this beautiful post!
> From all of us who are great spirits but are less than great
> navigators in the world of words and the intellect. Thank you for
> recognizing the spirit and the unquenchable thirst for more, that
> goes beyond words.
> Thank you for bringing to the forefront the need to see our Oneness
> in all of us.
> The beauty is in the Unity.
>
> Blessings and Joy
> Patty
>
>
> Thank you Patty for your affirmation. It is easy to fall prey
to the intensity of the times. People are inpatient for change as
the darkness seems to be encroaching ever more around us. Many will
fall away, and I believe you have seen that here as David has pointed
out in his last update post. It is tempting to enter into a battle of
personalities, even in those who would be working for light. The 3D
mind so wants to be seen and acknowledged. We all need to understand
that about ourselves and learn to laugh at our own folly. Learn the
Cosmic Laugh. A good example of that laugh is from the movie Money
Pit. When after filling the bath tub with water the tub fell through
the floor, Tom Hank's character just ended up laughing uncontrollably
at that point. What else can one do in the face of such calamity?

Just remember, everything is as it should be, right now. Evil always
consumes itself because that is the nature of it. A painful process,
nonetheless, but we are all in the heart of a loving Creator. How can
things ever be otherwise?

Peace

Mark
>

[Erik]

I am glad you seemed to understand the purpose of why I answered your
post. I too, have a tendency to speak from my passion, and it has
caused me to be misunderstood many times. People often respond more to
the emotion/passion of a statement than the words.
Peace
Mark

Erik: I dont know or am not sure, but mabey thats the reason Ra speaks without
passion, almost devoid of even compassion.
I guess passion stems from emotion and emotion informs us we still have to learn
( from that emotion/passion)

When you speak with passion/emotion you tricker the ineveteble: You get mirrored
as this is still your field of learning.
As opposed to the GRAND ideas you was thinking of and sharing with...
I think Quo is a setup to allows a more smooth experience for us.

ooops... if allowed by the moderators, this is my second post tonight.
It obviously should not be allowed :-))))

( Dont take life to serious).

In love/light and compassion,
Erik.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ken Rozsahegyi]

<Drake wrote: "As Yoda stated in Star Wars: "Difficult it is being
in 3D , as much as difficult it is for Kermit the Frog green to
be." But alas Star War fans, green he is, and "here" we are, and
green we continue in our ways. " >

Seriously, speaking of Sesame Street - it's amazing how we as
creators can so easily give life to our own puppets (Yoda
included). In our reality, it's not difficult! Did you know that a
puppeteer could make any puppet any known color or texture desired?
(Yoda may be unaware of that,- or perhaps that line spoken by puppet
Yoda was actually the sarcasm of the puppet master, with full
knowledge that this higher master self was laughing at accepted 3D
limitations?).

A poet once said, "If you wish to feel real, try being a fictional
character for a while...." - It's really a part of us finally
expressing!

[Here's a related tidbit synchronicity: Jim Henson had already named
the frog character "Kermit" before ever meeting Kermit Love, the
original Sesame street puppeteer and puppetry teacher]. Our puppet
creations have very real effects in 3D- speaking from experience, I
still have my "Magister Ludi" and other puppets created in Kermit's
puppetry class back in art school..

Here's to the many, many puppet masters of 3D...
Ken

[lottacontinuum]

I hope this message finally makes it through, as I had problems with posting
public lately.
I found out now, that it was due my email Account having been full on one
occasion and
messages rebounced. After that the account here needs to be reactivated at "my
yahoo" in
case somebody will have that problem in the future. So finally with two days
delay:

Dear Ron,

> Ron: I said "I have been a member of this forum for the past few years and I
> used to post regularly.." What I am saying here is that I had been posting
> (and also receiving) messages fairly regularly at one time. Then I said
> "Now, I rarely get any responses to my messages in this forum - which are
> almost always about ideas.". Below is a complete summary of all my message
> posts since 01/08/2005 (except for those concerning my recent email address
> change).

I checked the links of your previous posts and yes, on some topics you haven`t
gotten any
responses, but I don`t think this is because of any special reason. I often read
postings
and think to myself "Oh yes, good point" and do not reply for my own reasons at
that time
(e.g. no time, don?t feel like communicating etc).
I think everybody here has had posts with few or no responses, but the way we
reflect
about it is something that shows us how we see ourselves.
You can see it in a way that has nothing to do with your personality or you can
chose to
project insecurities you have due to your previous experiences on this.

I can very well understand this feeling of loneliness on the path, as at some
point you have
to go your own path, regardless if all the rest of humanity goes in another
direction. This
is very hard on the human being, as we all long for a feeling of oneness, being
loved and
embraced just the way we are. but this pain has something good in it at the end
of the
road and that is, that we someday will truly find the love and the light within
ourself and
don`t need the love of other human beings seemingly "outside" of us to be happy
and to
embrace life. we will still enjoy being with others, but we don not need the
reassurance of
others to feel selfconfident and happy.

Reading your previous posts, you seem to be quite rebellious with being a nudist
in the
U.S. (are you from the U.S?). I come from Germany and here it is quite normal or
at least
not such a big deal. People here go sunbathing naked in the park in Munich. It
is quite
funny, as most of the tourists nearly drop their beermugs from the beergardens
walking
by and seeing naked people. The world is strange nowadays, it is considered
normal to get
so drunk at the oktoberfest, that people get aggressive and hurt each other, but
it is not
considered normal for humans to walk around naked. So I can see that you haven`t
much
in common with the average lifestyle and probably are lonely in this society. If
then people
who you consider similar to yourself do not react for whatever reason, you get
hit with the
catalyst feeling "I am ultimately alone" which will someday lead you to the
light within you,
where you will unite with everybody else again.

Actually I am just writing intuitively to you now and do not know if I am
projecting my own
issues and if this is helpful to you, but this I what I sensed and feeling
lonely or
missunderstood is surely also one of my issues and I guess that of many
wanderers, so
please forgive me if I am projecting things into you. :-)

Be blessed
Lotta

[E. Drake]

lottacontinuum <lottacontinuum@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=5felGKIW8AMQdiQA70z0pIKUcMcEqrBq_Xzx6R tRl57ALU_mQs5XFToY0shII8K4h8WHu5BJI-ie0GgfKq4)> wrote: <snip> Responding to Ron:

"I can see that you haven`t much
in common with the average lifestyle and probably are lonely in this society
(the USA). If then people
who you consider similar to yourself do not react for whatever reason, you get
hit with the
catalyst feeling "I am ultimately alone" which will someday lead you to the
light within you,
where you will unite with everybody else again.

Actually I am just writing intuitively to you now and do not know if I am
projecting my own
issues and if this is helpful to you, but this I what I sensed and feeling
lonely or
missunderstood is surely also one of my issues and I guess that of many
wanderers, so
please forgive me if I am projecting things into you. :-)

Be blessed
Lotta
Drake: Gutentag noch ein mal Lotta,

For whatever its worth Lotta, I would bet that this may in a sense be exactly
what Ron, and many other members feel, but with a compounded whammy. Many, on
the whole, are all strangers in this society called the earth. Thus the reason,
in a smaller or larger sense, of being here. "Ich bin ein Berliner" just
doesn't quite cut it or do the trick, as much as the attempt and struggle to fit
in. It is a trick. But alas, it might be Auswitch, but it's home.

I've learned it well as a German American Brit living everywhere, born in
Cambridge, but a German myself, who grew up in America as a Yank, and had his
childhood deeply steeped in European values,who ultimately isn't from this
planet anyway, but who loves it nonetheless for all the wild fun and goosing of
a ride that it is. I had to learn to be a chameleon changing colors as a natural
consequence of my culturally schizophrenic background. My father was a diplomat
speaking seven languages, and as a result we lived and traveled virtually
everywhere. I had to laugh out loud under my giggle to your post as a result(in
a good way). Not only is Amerika a krazy country, but so too are the Brits, as
are the Germans, as are the Swiss, as is every national in every country, as are
we all, as strangers in the earth.

Now the whammy is this, as sojourners shaking the sleep out of our eyes: If we
are all indeed strangers in the earth, then those who know they know they are
strangers are stranger yet than those who are as well but don't know. Now thats
strange.

Thus the axiom: "Let them sleep on".

It's hard to talk to someone asleep, whether speaking Russian or Swahili, no
matter how fluent or proficient in the language one asumes one is. Its all Greek
to the one that sleeps. Compound this then to the fact that often, as awake as
we'd like to fool ourselves into believing we are as seekers penetrating 4th, or
7th level density(?), the one speaking is but a fraction more awake than his
brother slumbering, thus hardly worth the mention AGAINST THE VASTNESS OF
INFINITY.

Faithfully,

Drake









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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ron Erickson]

3) Ron: I think that you have both made some valid and interesting observations,
but I am not entirey sure what "you haven't much in common with the average
lifestyle and probably are lonely in this society" means in this context,
considering that we are almost complete strangers at a personal level. Having
said this, you are both correct that I, (and I believe many others) wish that we
had more and deeper relations with others. By this, I mean more than one of
these levels: spiritual, intellectual, social, romantic/sexual. I do not,
however, see myself as "a casualty of these times", or "a casualty of choices I
have made". When I see people on the streets, in markets, in cafes, and I look
into their eyes, I see need and pain, but I also see hope and courage in many
different people with whom I have very little in common. Indeed, when I compare
my life with many people I know, including my siblings, perhaps I am less
"average" than most of these people, but I realize that I am also more fortunate
than most. Now, there seems to be a subtle, implicit, underlying assumption
here that people need to be "average" in order to find companionship, and in
order to be successful and happy. Be very careful about these inferences,
because most people are entirely unaware of them - and that they are actually
being quite condescending. I've constructed the following for dramatic effect
(and I'm not suggesting that this is where Lotta or Drake are coming from): "Oh,
you poor suffering dear - life must be so miserable for you...Why on earth did
you choose to live as an artist - when could have had a trophy wife, 2.5
children, and a subburban home with a two-car garage? You could have been so
happy, but honestly, you must be so completely alone and starving.". Just in
case it wasn't completely obvious, this is "A BUNCH OF CRAP". And just what is
this "average lifestyle" anyway? If Mr. Joe Average really exists, living
somewhere in Pleasantville, America (as in the film), then I don't think I would
want to be like him. Would you?.

1) Lotta: I can see that you haven't much in common with the average lifestyle
and probably are lonely in this society (the USA). If then people who you
consider similar to yourself do not react for whatever reason, you get hit with
the catalyst feeling "I am ultimately alone" which will someday lead you to the
light within you, where you will unite with everybody else again. Actually I am
just writing intuitively to you now and do not know if I am projecting my own
issues and if this is helpful to you, but this I what I sensed and feeling
lonely or missunderstood is surely also one of my issues and I guess that of
many wanderers, so please forgive me if I am projecting things into you. :-)

2) Drake (shortened as per Chris's request): For whatever its worth Lotta, I
would bet that this may in a sense be exactly what Ron, and many other members
feel, but with a compounded whammy. Many, on the whole, are all strangers in
this society called the earth. Thus the reason, in a smaller or larger sense, of
being here. "Ich bin ein Berliner" just doesn't quite cut it or do the trick,
as much as the attempt and struggle to fit in. It is a trick. But alas, it might
be Auswitch, but it's home... I had to learn to be a chameleon changing colors
as a natural consequence of my culturally schizophrenic background. My father
was a diplomat speaking seven languages, and as a result we lived and traveled
virtually everywhere. I had to laugh out loud under my giggle to your post as a
result(in a good way). Not only is Amerika a krazy country, but so too are the
Brits, as are the Germans, as are the Swiss, as is every national in every
country, as are we all, as strangers in the earth.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[lottacontinuum]

Dear Drake,

> "I can see that you haven`t much
> in common with the average lifestyle and probably are lonely in this society
(the USA). If
then people
> who you consider similar to yourself do not react for whatever reason, you get
hit with
the
> catalyst feeling "I am ultimately alone" which will someday lead you to the
light within
you,
> where you will unite with everybody else again.>

Drake: For whatever its worth Lotta, I would bet that this may in a sense be
exactly what
Ron, and many other members feel, but with a compounded whammy. Many, on the
whole, are all strangers in this society called the earth. Thus the reason, in a
smaller or
larger sense, of being here. "Ich bin ein Berliner" just doesn't quite cut it
or do the trick,
as much as the attempt and struggle to fit in. It is a trick. But alas, it might
be Auswitch,
but it's home.

Lotta: mmh, I am not sure if I expressed myself clear or if I am misinterpreting
your words
now? I also see that nearly all of us here on earth originally came from
somewhere else.
Some know it and some are still asleep. This truly is something that most of us
can cope
with, eventhough it might seem hard sometimes. Therefore when one see`s`that
most
others sleep, one let`s them sleep and gathers with the ones that have opened
their eyes
and are ready to communicate with us. We find a few people who seem to be
similar to us
and gather again as a (smaller) group (like here), because we seek to merge and
unite with
those, as this is our natural spiritual evolution. It is a paradox because we go
deeper into
specialisation and seperation from society in order to find unity.
What a shock then for the personalityself if it finds out that it is a stranger
even in a
seemingly similar, small specialized group! Imagine there would only be twenty
people left
on earth with whom you detect similarities on your path and suddenly you find
out that
you are far more different to everybody else than you thought and that you still
haven`t`found unconditional love. This shatters the ego so much, that it finally
resigns
and gets out of the way, so that you can then start to truly love yourself and
forgive
yourself and be one with all other beings, because the egoshell that seperates
us from
another is removed. What a relief, what happiness that must be, I can only
guess.
But to get us there, we find all kinds of ways to try to break that shell around
us, some are
painful and quick and some are gentle and take longer, that depends on our
personal
preferences.

But what I tried to point at was the feeling of loneliness, that comes up within
us when
people of the "similar" group seem to dismiss you. Ron`s higherself has created
this
scenario of first seperating the ego from society, reuniting with few seemingly
similar
people only to find out that seperation has not vanished by chosing this way.

Sorry that is my best attempt at communicating this. It is even hard to express
myself
about spiritual things in german language, so if you do not understand what I
mean,
forget about it and move on ;-), knowing that our hearts understand even if our
minds
don`t. :-D

Be blessed
Lotta

[lottacontinuum]

Ron: I think that you have both made some valid and interesting observations,
but I am
not entirey sure what "you haven't much in common with the average lifestyle and
probably are lonely in this society" means in this context, considering that we
are almost
complete strangers at a personal level. Having said this, you are both correct
that I, (and I
believe many others) wish that we had more and deeper relations with others. By
this, I
mean more than one of these levels: spiritual, intellectual, social,
romantic/sexual. I do
not, however, see myself as "a casualty of these times", or "a casualty of
choices I have
made".

Dear Ron,

as I pointed out in my first posting, my intend to answer was pure intuitive and
might not
have anything to do with you. As you pointed out, I do not know you and probably
went to
far and was to personal. I apologize. So just discard it and keep my good
intention in
memory ;-)

Be blessed
Lotta