On being true to oneself / On negative greetings [Archive]

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Jeremy

01-17-2006, 09:52 AM

Monica Leal

01-17-2006, 02:02 PM

Jeremy, I completely agree! I have experienced many occasions in
which I refrained from telling people what I thought might be at the
root of their dis-ease, in respect to their own process of
unfolding. It is true that sometimes people just aren't ready to
face what may be obvious to an observer. I have found that,
generally, when they start asking questions, that is an indication
that they are ready to hear bigger pieces of that ever-
elusive `Truth.'

Hence, Ra would only answer questions, and rarely volunteered info.

As with parents wondering when to tell their children about the
birds and the bees, the answer is simple: when they ask, answer
simply and honestly. Do not give more info than what is asked for.
And always preface it, as does Q'uo, with (paraphrased) `I offer
this to you. If it is not useful, then discard.'

I now offer to the group: How can this principle be applied to the
discordant situation that has just transpired here on this forum,
which has been labeled by the forum's creator as `Negative Greeting'?

As a computer programmer, I tend to think in terms of logic, so I
will apply some logic here:

The way I see it, there are only 2 possibilities:

1. David is correct that Drake is an infiltrator, has a
malicious agenda to derail David's work, and is thus responsible for
the `Negative Greeting.' If this scenario is correct, then the
question is: was publicly attacking and exposing the source of the
negative greeting the most effective means of neutralizing it?
Whether it was or not, what's done is done, so the NEXT question is:
how can we harmonize after this occurrence of discord?

-OR-

2. Drake is correct in asserting his innocence, and in fact is
merely a seeker of Truth and a stickler for accuracy, and what David
perceives as `attack' is merely Drake attempting to hold David to a
high standard. If this scenario is true, then is Drake's method of
challenging concepts and ideas, both publicly and privately, the
best way to support that higher standard, since David obviously
takes offense to that? And, why does David take offense to the
challenging of concepts and ideas?

Why only 2 possibilities? Normally, in any conflict, I would say
that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. But in this case,
either Drake is seeking Truth, or he is malicious. And, either David
is right, or he is falsely accusing an innocent man.

I have already expressed my opinion that David is mistaken about
Drake. I base this on my many private conversations with Drake, as
well as reading many of the messages between him and David, which
BOTH of them have shared with me.

However, my opinion does not matter, since I cannot prove anything.
(Neither can David or Drake, for that matter.) And, as has David, I
admit that I could be wrong. Maybe I am naive and foolish. What I
think doesn't matter.

What DOES matter is how we choose to deal with this lack of harmony.
Are we going to see it as an attack, or as an opportunity to grow in
Love? Are we going to create separation by taking sides, or are we
going to attempt to harmonize and see the LOVE, not only in the
situation, but in both of these people?

It is far easier to see the Love in David, since he is the leader of
this group. There is clearly an element of loyalty at work here,
sometimes to the degree of Guruitis. But, according to LoO
principles, should we not also be seeking the love in Drake?

If #1 above is true, then it seems to me that we all ought to be
sending lots of love and light to Drake, not just to David. For are
we not all ONE? If Drake is a negative entity, then is not
counterattacking him only fighting fire with fire? Sure, send him on
his way if his service is not wanted; if you are absolutely certain
that he is completely negative. He has offered to leave, and in fact
may already be banned from the group. But again, David indicated
that he was NOT sure about that. Hence, Drake's messages are still
being posted to the group. But even if Drake IS negative, as Jeremy
just pointed out, he is STILL a mirror, and ultimately we all DO
create our own catalyst. The negative entities are just providing
that catalyst, and the purpose of the catalyst is ultimately to help
us grow stronger in LOVE. Did not Ra indicate that the best
protection against negative greeting is to greet the entity with
Love?

Instead, what I have been observing is a lot of pointing of fingers,
a lot of taking sides. There are the people who think Drake is
the `enemy' (and me too by association).

Drake is not the enemy. Separation is the enemy!

Sheesh, are we, so-called LoO students, no better than our corrupt
governments who label nations `good' and `bad'? How can we ever
expect 4d to manifest, when we can't even see the Love in one
another on this forum???

People, David IS about to be involved in something that can
potentially be huge. He IS right to be concerned about negative
greeting. But concerned and alert, yes. Paranoid and fearful, no!
Can you not see that creating division right here in this group,
which SHOULD be a sacred space, is only adding to any negativity
that may be trying to derail him?

==> I ask you: which has created the most division: Drake's
questions, or the taking of sides that has occurred in the last few
days? <==

Now for the 2nd possibility: that Drake is wrongly accused. Are all
of you absolutely certain that Drake is an infiltrator? Is there ANY
possibility that you could be wrong? Even David admitted that he
MIGHT be misinterpreting, MIGHT be WRONG about Drake. He is being
cautious, and reacting in a defensive, and even aggressive, way,
because he does not want to take the chance that he could be right
in his suspicions. David is trying to protect himself and his work,
and that is understandable. I might not agree with how he has gone
about doing that, but I do understand what he is trying to do.

IF David is wrong in his suspicions, and merely overreacting due to
stress about the movie, then has this ostracizing and dissecting of
Drake by other people in this group (as well as David) served any
purpose, other than to FEED FEAR AND PARANOIA?

IF David is wrong in his suspicions, and again, even he admitted
that he MIGHT be, then we can all help him the most sending him lots
of love and light, in addition to sending love and light to his
perceived `enemy'.

Since Drake and David are mirrors of each other, the solution is
still always the same: we must respond in a loving manner to BOTH of
them. For they are ONE. As we ALL are ONE.

One of the most useful things that David has said, that really did
resonate with me, was the simple definition of STS/STO: that if it
promotes separation, it is STS; if it promotes harmony, it is STO.

In David's latest message, he disclosed some `negative' things about
Carla and Jim. He has also admitted to some negative things about
himself.

I submit: We ALL have our issues. David. Carla. Drake. Me. You. Each
of us has our faults, our weaknesses. We all mirror one another.
This does NOT in any way take away from the work we do, the service
we provide. Personally I would not care in the least what tv shows
Carla watches, since she has already provided such a service by
channeling the LoO. I understand what David meant by his
expectations of a spiritual community being let down, but I see that
as a good thing, so that we do not put `spiritual' people on a
pedestal and expect them to be perfect. Some of the greatest
spiritual contributions have been made by people who were less than
perfect in their everyday lives, Cayce being the most obvious
example. Likewise, it does not take away from David's contributions
if I do not agree with him on some things. Why can we not extend
that same graciousness to one another? There are some among us who
have big egos, petty fears, lack of tact, too pushy, too wimpy,
whatever. So? Does that make us negative entities?

I think David's work would be better protected if we chose to see
the Love in one another, rather than focusing on some perceived
threat which may or may not even be real. We make it real by giving
it power. Let's not give it power by feeding it our fear. Let's
starve it by showering it with LOVE.

Even the seemingly `all-powerful' Illmti can be brought to its knees
by the power of our love and forgiveness.

Ra said that Love and Forgiveness breaks the cycle of karma. David,
forgive yourself for your past involvements in corrupting the LoO.
Forgive Drake. (and me!) More will be accomplished by your
forgiveness than by anything else you do.

Drake, forgive David. Everyone else, forgive both Drake and David.
Now, let's all hold hands and OMMMM together and be HAPPY.

So, my conclusion is this: It does NOT MATTER whether #1 or #2 above
is true. It does NOT matter whether David is correct or Drake is
correct. The solution is still the same: LOVE AND FORGIVENESS BY ALL
INVOLVED.

David wants this group to be a mystery school. Well, he can't do it
by himself. Let's all rise to the challenge and see just how
powerful our Love can be!

If ever there was a time to APPLY the Law of One teachings, it is
NOW.

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=7BfQRxTa9WLR12r-5ZhHP2rMg9pMuRhOh45Yx9tmBEwMr8-EkO8JQoM4JMN7TyOy76ZYLXn2QgmGORM), "Jeremy" <jeremy@6...> wrote:
> A person in abject fear does NOT want to be told that the source
is self. That may increase the panic and distortion... That said,
in the ultimate sense I agree with you, Zia: a negative greeting IS
self. It is not a threat, but another part of the creator seeking
to serve in a (admittedly negative) way...reason Elkins coined this
term (rather than "negative attack") was to emphasize that this is
just another form of service, to be appreciated if not accepted.

Jeremy

01-17-2006, 02:25 PM

Thanks for your comprehensive reply, Monica! I'm not really familiar with the
E. Drake situation, having sequestered myself from the asc2k list drama for
almost a year. And I kind of like it that way. :-) But the point of your
email is well taken - we should be striving to act with love whenever we can,
and have compassion for ourselves and others when it doesn't happen. In the
meantime, however, there is a list to run - let's not get bogged down in some
petty dispute. I'm sure Drake would leave if the list was completely useless to
him - therefore, even if things grate on him, he must be deriving some benefit
from our conversations, and that at least is comforting.

L/L

Jeremy

bob_dunham

01-17-2006, 03:34 PM

Yes, I like what you had to say Monica. But there is also the issue of
codependancy and
setting boundries. THis setting of boundires is where banning people comes in.
Believe
me, just saying I do not request service may not always be enough. David could
say that,
but if he doesnt set boundries, a negative greeting can still take place. ITs
not anti Law of
ONE To take action by setting boundries. The care bear stare is great in
theory, but
sometimes you have to run from the mugger and get to a safe place b4 trying it.

If someone is trying to thwart Davids efforts, he must first set the boundry,
and only then
can he move on with his life and wish the opposing entity love and light. If
you dont set
the boundry, then you get hit.

Like I say, I believe examples of setting boudries may include fighting back and
self
defense. David is busy, and he needed to set boundires by not allowing some one
on the
list to walk all over him, especially if that person has an harmful agenda.

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=Vc6cpgjNbXnLvPVhCPVr5DPOJiNiarnPMqMLFl nbDaupb3iBjS9iZP8Y-X-nz_2vGM4sEqTt1YxuHX8), "Monica Leal" <lealdragon@g...> wrote:
>
> Jeremy, I completely agree! I have experienced many occasions in
> which I refrained from telling people what I thought might be at the
> root of their dis-ease, in respect to their own process of
> unfolding. It is true that sometimes people just aren't ready to
> face what may be obvious to an observer. I have found that,
> generally, when they start asking questions, that is an indication
> that they are ready to hear bigger pieces of that ever-
> elusive `Truth.'
>
> Hence, Ra would only answer questions, and rarely volunteered info.

David Wilcock

01-17-2006, 03:41 PM

From: asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=kbXp7_bw-rCfTTF2zMFOpfQGV7JJCQVTqLvhaWRvZ3W9y1CY2IlF8ZT1WZ-ICPT5BQKooK1OsNoR3kGgxb4) [mailto:asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=kbXp7_bw-rCfTTF2zMFOpfQGV7JJCQVTqLvhaWRvZ3W9y1CY2IlF8ZT1WZ-ICPT5BQKooK1OsNoR3kGgxb4)] On Behalf Of
Monica Leal

>Ra said that Love and Forgiveness breaks the cycle of karma. David,
forgive yourself for your past involvements in corrupting the LoO.
Forgive Drake. (and me!) More will be accomplished by your
forgiveness than by anything else you do.

DW: That is true... in forgiveness lies the stoppage of the wheel of karma.
That being said, I was not / am not feeling negative emotions towards you,
Monica, despite you defending Drake with great passion, as you have defended
me at times in the past - in this and other forums.

My lack of participation in this issue is really more of a desire for all of
us just to move past it. We've got a lot of words on paper repeating the
same things, and this quickly tires the patience of people who are not that
emotionally invested one way or the other, but just want to read uplifting
material.

So forget about Drake. Forget about David. Leave them be. They're both
swelling with adolescent combative emotions that do not serve this list when
such battles and conflicts arise in their inevitably distorted and confused
human minds, and are vomited out onto the printed page. Let's focus on our
own individual and collective Ascension, through understanding and becoming
the Law of One.

Since I only have one full day left before I go on the road, and will become
far less visible on this list for the next, say, two weeks, (which is
precisely the environment in which this drama erupted last time,) let me
answer the cumulative bulk of the points you've made in one place, so as to
show you that I am not ignoring or hating you, just ready to move on here,
by necessity. I CANNOT answer further about these issues, due to the time
constraints, so this will have to do:

Was I under stress when writing about Drake? Yes. Absolutely.

Did I have enough of a variety of reasons to voice my concerns? Yes.

If I was fully right about Drake, could my life be in danger? Yes.

Do I feel that some people think any time is a good time to challenge and
criticize me, if it can get attention and create food for thought? Yes.

Do some people seem to particularly be guided to create the most conflict
when I am the least ready to be able to handle it? Yes.

Do I define this as a well-timed negative greeting? Yes.

Was I worried about this happening again, and getting all sorts of
long-winded emails from you, Drake, the moderators and others, all screaming
for my intervention, when I go back to LA to try to focus on the film? Yes.

Am I going to answer those emails if it DOES happen again this time? No.

Will I be upset about not answering those emails? No.

Does this mean I will have gone to the dark side? No.

Has this type of drama made me completely abandon the list in the past, out
of how wounded and overwhelmed I felt? Yes.

[Check 2003 and 2004's records compared to the other years - particularly
our dear, dear friend "Sledgehammer Sunshine" and his campaign of criticism-
if you are not sure about what I am saying.]

Did my utter abandonment of the list for two years lead to the loss of one
of my all-time best moderators and participants, since he felt unsupported
in my absence? I believe he would say yes.

So, I would just remind you, once again, that without the guidelines, we
would be infiltrated and overrun by people who would attack me personally in
ways that made whatever five or ten other comments that have just been
visited upon Drake seem utterly tame by comparison.

You now feel great sympathy for Drake after this brief two-day blast of
focus that he has endured, and you have defended me admirably on many
occasions in the past as well. Bear in mind that no one else's blood has
been shed in this forum to anywhere even CLOSE to the degree that my own has
been. I did not come into this work wanting to be perpetually crucified. I
cannot ultimately forgive something that will continue, in perpetuity,
without the guidelines in place.

Anyone can join and quit whenever they want, but I am, of course, expected
to stay the course and keep on participating, no matter what. And I walk an
absurd climate of landmines, because especially in the past, it became well
known that if someone criticized loudly enough, they would suddenly become
the focus of my attention. I since have learned just to ignore much of that
criticism, as you can see. This situation, though, was the very first to
actually get me seriously considering n-king the entire list.

So, I just see these pro/anti Drake messages as consuming a lot of time and
space right now, on something that cannot be proven one way or the other, so
I'm not participating any further. Ultimately regardless of who he is or why
he is here, every one of us here is One Being. I do not need to be singled
out, Drake does not need singling out, et cetera. We have great minds here
and it says right in the guidelines not to direct comments at David in
particular.

I need to have better boundaries about not participating when people try to
roast me in public. The fire doesn't feel very good when it burns in the
other direction. It's better not to even act like it exists in the first
place, which is what I will be doing from now on.

I certainly respect how even the more intense ordeals in my life are
ultimately productive and beneficial. I will be ignoring all critics and
challengers for the immediate future so as not to further increase my stress
level in the midst of this very complicated move. In that sense I am
following the TWO-PART Law of One formula for negative greetings, yes
paraphrased:

1. Send love to the entity greeting you.
2. At the same time, firmly reject the service offered by the entity as not
being useful to you on your path at this time - and withdraw.

Peace be with you -

- David

Monica Leal

01-17-2006, 06:42 PM

Thanks for your response, David. I especially liked this part:

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=mSBW64JG-KaqhDzP4GxYhau4E7UAhFW4i-q4elgwVlypY9HCyKVI1m0UQA8AVr8EJpGGHuiLkgN6Pazj), "David Wilcock" <djw333@i...> wrote:
>
> So forget about Drake. Forget about David. Leave them be. They're both
> swelling with adolescent combative emotions that do not serve this
list when
> such battles and conflicts arise in their inevitably distorted and
confused
> human minds, and are vomited out onto the printed page. Let's focus
on our
> own individual and collective Ascension, through understanding and
becoming
> the Law of One.
>

...because it acknowledges that none of us is above such emotions.

I have said all I have to say on this issue, so you needn't worry
about more discussion from me. PEACE!

* Zia

01-17-2006, 07:45 PM

> I still cannot agree with someone, some greater being outside of you,
> allowing negative entities to DO SOMETHING TO YOU. This is your creation
by
> your thoughts.

To a certain extent, I agree, Zia. But think about the level of spiritual
sophistication and, more precisely, self-knowledge and self-trust it takes
to comprehend that idea. What I see David doing is trying to calm a person
worried about negative greetings down, so that they can start to trust in
the oneness of creation.

HI Jeremy :) interesting point. I would consider that as each individual
reads the RA Material, The Law of One, that there is much that requires
QUITE a level of spiritual sophistication. I am glad of that! WE could
have received some very watered down spiritual platitudes, sort of an
improvement on the Ten Commandments and not much else :) It is not just one
email in which I have read this sort of thought, and I am simply stating
'for myself' that this is impossible for me. Beliefs are very powerful
things, and it takes great courage to challenge one's own beliefs, and
ultimately 'create' those beliefs that would best serve you in your journey
:) Even to the point that one can ultimately believe there will never be
any negative greetings, by recognizing every greeting as an opportunity for
love. ALWAYS, all ways :) Also higher level entities, 5th level, do not
hold negative thoughtforms on a leash... on the 5th level one learns very
rapidly in experiencing instantly what works and what does not, and there is
such a tangible Love at this level... it is profound to me :) I see
sometimes an exaggeration perhaps for effect going on, because I have ALWAYS
found that Love simply begets more Love, and the reverse also being
true...more fear, more intensity... begets more fear loaded with even
greater intensity...

I come from the old school of thought that someone cannot do something to
me, without my prior creative inclusion of that event. And I also come from
the school of thought that says NO ONE can 'make me unhappy' or take my
power from me. Why? Because it is MY CHOICE to be angry or not. Yes I can
feel the old past conditionings running, yet I do not have to ever give them
any power, nor anyone outside of me any power on what I choose to think,
feel and how I may respond in any given situation. That would make us all
victims to each other, and truly, that is just NOT the case :) Yet the
personality thrives on such a belief system :)

If we say, well so and so 'ruined my day' or the weather 'ruined my day'...
we are giving our power to outer people, places, things, time and events to
control US! What if we could truly see the perfection in what is occurring,
or at least decide to trust and be willing to look for the perfection, thus
no reaction, and then if it is our desire, simply create the desired outcome
from the infinite number of potentials, and allow that to unfold. Now this
is my school of thought, not something I have necessarily fully mastered
every moment of my life :) And I am soo glad I have been taught this, for
it has allowed me to change my life.

When someone is in dire straits, platitudes just don't cut it. The TRUTH
does :) well that is my experience anyway :) I am not mean, nor cruel, and
the truth can be given in a soft, gentle and caressing manner, and the truth
is profound because it provides HOPE, something so many are short on... that
there is a way out of escalating drama in one's life :)

There are sooo many different ways to 'handle a personality', and that is
what we are really talking about! Yet if we can introduce the concept that
there is another way, there is a solution that changes everything, often not
mincing words and a direct altercation with false beliefs, fears and
dogma... even allowing that the person may be in shock... as Krishnamurti
was soo good at referencing... shock - and the mind is wide open... is a
profound moment in which to discover the mind is filled with Love :) Every
time is unique...

You know, in the Oneness that we are... it is ALL ME... I am
self-responsible for what comes into my life, and I determine if I leave the
door open with repetitive past fear based belief systems to an energy that
simply matches that thought... very simple. No big deal... :) Love
dissolves all of that. That is why forgiveness is SOOO powerful to me.
Forgiveness is: the opportunity for GIVING LOVE. To self and all others
involved. That Love comes back 10,000 fold... and thus we ALL benefit each
time forgiveness is chosen. Atonement being the recognition and return to
Oneness!

A person in abject fear does NOT want to be told that the source is self.
That may increase the panic and distortion. However true that may be, it
may not be helpful at that particular juncture on their path to oneness.
It's like those who insist that we create our own diseases - yes, in the
ultimate sense, with respect to our higher selves and the power of our
thoughts, this is true, but that may not be quite the information a person
dying of cancer needs to hear at that moment.

*A personality does not WANT to listen, that is correct, the God does though
:) That is often the 'purpose' of the event that is cause... I have
worked with ones 'dying of cancer'. Do they want the truth? It all depends
on how far the disease has progressed, and whether that person has already
chosen to let go of this particular life. Even in that case, the person is
often willing to listen, and consider and discuss. It also depends on the
type of treatment involved... for soo many affect the brain and its ability
to function - able to reason or not. Many suddenly awaken to life and WANT
TO LIVE!!! In any sharing there are two people at least :) In the ultimate
scenario, you are really talking to yourself. It can get quite challenging
when you may have said you want absolute honesty and along comes someone
like a bright spark know it all that says just at that point of reaction in
you: YOU are DOING THIS to YOURSELF!!!! wow that either can wake you up,
cause you to laugh, or send you into the reaction... all depends on where
the person is in their own development. Those on such a forum as this, are
surely asking for the truth!

Alternatively, a teacher can highlight the higher self's unveiled knowledge
of the incarnative programming as a "check" on what a person might otherwise
consider absolute vulnerability. Or another message might be more
appropriate - the key being, there is no one "right" way to express truth,
and any number of distortions might be helpful or harmful. While we
progress ourselves, we should attempt to help others by speaking to them in
their language, on their terms. Light can only be transmitted if
understanding occurs, right? If we talk over people's heads, we don't
really help much.

*I am often surprised at just how many people are awakening! I cannot take
responsibility for another's reaction, that is their free will :) I can
take responsibility for what I say, how I choose to say it, and be
impeccable in Love and within guidance to the best of my ability :) I once
asked a great being that if I developed something, a scientific device with
the clear intent to HELP people, and it got stolen from me, and then turned
and used to harm people, would I be responsible? What do you think was the
response to my question?

Being a Creator, well you could create that those who come into your 'field'
are drawn to you for the answers that you are capable of providing! Then
you will never be in doubt, rather trust that this is a person that is
seeking what you have to offer :)

That said, in the ultimate sense I agree with you, Zia: a negative greeting
IS self. It is not a threat, but another part of the creator seeking to
serve in a (admittedly negative) way.

*It is ALL in the eye of the Beholder, the receiver... when we step back,
pause, take a breath, and remember who we are... isn't the negative or
positive the perspective of the personality? What is my identity in any
given moment? Isn't that a more important question, that said in
appropriate timing can immediately stop a person in their tracks, stop the
thoughts, to consider that question?

We may answer through clenched teeth: I am One, I am God, I am Christ, I
am Creator... yet the moment we get those words out.... wow we have just
'turned the other cheek' because we are now looking from a different
perspective! Not the personality, rather truly who and what you are :)

Loving living, Light :) Z

Jeremy

01-18-2006, 07:41 AM

* Zia

01-18-2006, 10:30 AM

Zia wrote:

> It is not just one email in which I have read this sort of thought, and I
am simply stating
> 'for myself' that this is impossible for me.

Fair enough, though my point was to address whether or not what's right for
you at a given moment is right for somebody else at a given moment. It is
well to speak total truth always, but I would argue that there is compassion
in coming down to the level of somebody else and helping them up, rather
than calling down to them from the ledge. I just wanted to give a different
perspective here.

Ahhh Jeremy :) forgive me if I did not actually 'say' I totally agree with
you :) And I certainly 'enjoyed' your perspective :) Compassion IS
paramount, and when that is operating, as I see it, what is given WILL BE
what is perfect for that person 'at the time' even if in a sense it does not
appear that way from the 'judgment' of the personality ego/s that may be
present :) REcognize that there really is no separation in the levels of
somebody with me, we are indeed ONE and all levels, dimensions, realities
etc exist right here, right now! What we are really discussing is the
understanding of concepts, and perhaps how these get introduced :) Speaking
TRUTH and then extrapolating for clarity of understanding is a great
foundation as I see it :)

Having experienced some VERY outrageous teachers in my time, I see the value
of both lifting a person to the loftiest perspective and greatest truth AND
in a sense 'identifying' with the cause and their current situation. One
must be most careful of empathy though, since it is a projection, and as I
see it, hold to sympathy for that is always sympathetic to the vibration of
Love :) If we become empathic in a given situation we will end up 'wearing'
where that person is :)

In respect to what you say above about 'coming down to the level' a person
may be operating from, well we are ALL right here in 3d since we have a body
here :) And it is usually the body that brings us right into that reality
:) Having compassion for what another is going through, may actually be to
say nothing at all, and oddly enough this too can carry a huge influence :)
[Yet if I post an email reply to you with nothing written, well you might
begin to wonder :)] I was visiting the hospital of one about to pass, and
there was a laughing loving circle of friends, relatives and work associates
around this person. She was sleeping, and the body obviously in difficulty
:) I held her hand, and closed my eyes, and went with her out of body,
showing her that it was all okay, taking her around the outdoors of the
beautiful hospital grounds, showing her the setting sun, and letting her
know that there is TOTAL life beyond the point of her body :) We had a
wonderful time, and people were laughing and singing and paying no mind to
me at all, with my husband quietly standing behind me holding my shoulders,
connecting with me :) It was wonderful :) And then we naturally returned,
ahh the love and beauty shared was wonderful, and as we prepared to then
leave since my 'job' was completed, she returned to full cosnciousness,
opened her eyes, and held my eyes in silence for quite a time :) and I just
smiled to her nodding the truth of what had occurred... and then quietly
left :) No words were necessary, and this is quite often the case.

I have the remarkable ability to connect with those in the process of
passing. One of my best friends had been taking care of her father for
years, and I suddenly got the impulse to go see her on my way home. As I
was going along the road near to her place an ambulance passed me. I got to
her place and discovered it was her father in the ambulance. They then flew
him to a major city hospital, and we went together to visit him. During the
ride, my head simply went back and I went out and travelled with him in
consciousness and could say to my friend in an odd voice what I was seeing
and doing... in fact coming out of that state for a moment, to warn my
friend to slow down NOW, because over the next hill on the side of the
freeway was a cop! She immediately obeyed and I was already back with her
father in consciousness... when the decision was ultimately made to pull him
off life support and let him go, I tuned in from home, and was in that
splendid little room seeing everyone, including the wonderful being that
came and stood beside the bed, engaging her father, and watching him leave
with that being!!!!

I have such a trust in LOVE, that what is given will be utterly perfect in
time.... and that in our commitment TO TRUST LOVE, we are so well guided...
perhaps ultimately it is a complete surrender to allowing that Christ
Consciousness, to BE the mind from which we operate to the best of our
ability, especially in engaging others, and it is simply, very simply, a
matter of what in any given moment we simply choose to identify with :)
Christ Mind, or personality ego. Being game enough, to close the door to
that personality ego, and TRUST totally, is what Jesus simply demonstrated
to me :) Long ago I awoke one morning to find Jesus standing beside my bed!
My first question to him was: did you really die on that cross? He said:
No, I rose victoriously! As a little girl I used to challenge many, because
I would say: If you saw Jesus walking down the street would you recognize
him? People were always shocked, and then I would say: well since he
resurrected his body, he is still alive! What is wonderful is that although
we do not SEE the totality of the 4/5/6th dimensions and all other realities
from here, those in those other dimensions/realities CAN show themselves to
US :) So please forgive me if I did not respond fully to answer your email,
that was not my intent... rather in agreeing with you I simply tend to add
more from my perspective :)

Let the wonder BEGIN : Z

Jeremy

01-18-2006, 08:19 PM

> So please forgive me if I did not respond fully to answer your email,
> that was not my intent... rather in agreeing with you I simply tend to add
> more from my perspective :)

Oh, no, I understand and appreciate it! Like I said, I totally agree with you:
you radiate love/light as much as you can, and others absorb of it what they can
handle. And definately speaking your truth is one way to do that.

L/L

Jeremy

E. Drake

01-19-2006, 02:27 PM

A most thought out sequence of heart and logic on your last post
Monica. Thank you. You are a champion of kindness and reasonability. Thank you
too to Jeremy for your post, and to Prrrba, as well as all the other private
mailings. I am sorry that some of you would unsubscribe as a result of this
misunderstanding. I would ask you to reconsider and speak your truths for the
group.

We are all anonymous here. Lets be honest. The only one we know who is real is
David. All the rest of us are just cyber names behind cyber print. He's gone
public, and out on a limb. For the record, I have applauded and acknowledged
David over, and over, and over again for that. I'll do it once more for the
record: "David, I applaud you".

Certainly no one knows each other here. We have nothing to loose. No one
knows me. I have nothing to loose. David however clearly has the most to loose,
by his own admissions, as well as the most to gain, for himself, his karma, and
us as well as all. I respect that. David knows I do. I've said the same
repeatedly publicly as well as privately. Must I grovel to make the point, or
grovel to be heard? Lets do: "David, I applaud you."

I have as a consequence held him to a higher ground and standard when it comes
to the Ra Material specifically. It is truly he that goes out on the limb, and
generally he that truly dances best, and certainly has most with me. Am I his
mirror, as he is mine, as has been suggested? Philosophically in esoteric
understanding, of course. In general manner and demeanor, no. Certainly not. But
this mirror analogy is the second mentioning of this in less than one week. I'll
look at it. I'm sure David will as well. I can state unequivocally that I make
no claim to authority on the Ra Material whatsoever, as it is folly, by Ra's own
words to do so. Thus we know I can not, or will not. As such, by Ra's words, I
can state just as unequivocally, there is no authority folks. Get used to it.
We're all in this together stumbling our way through the shadows. This includes
David, as much as me, as much as you. as much as Carla. There is no membership,
or secret handshakes, or organization, or
anything to anything that's going to get you there, but by your own bootstraps
and willingness to engage. Dare then to go out on a limb as a result as well.
Make a stand. Fall forward fast. David is. Sitting in the bleachers, or joining
sides is not being invested in the game.

Given that we can unequivocally agree, by Ra's words, that there are no
authorities, then at best there can only be seekers,students, and scholars. Too
many, if we are to be totally and brutally honest, that engage this list, have
even yet to crack the first page, much less make it through the first book of
RA, thus they can not even be counted as students. Just participants with
opinions. It shows. This isn't elitist folks. There is a tacit agreement we each
took on ourselves before joining. As a result, I know of only several true
scholars of the Material. I'm sure there are more. Wouldn't you suspect so?

For those of you not familiar with Jeremy, may I ? He was a past moderator for
asc2k, is a present scholar, and seems to have just returned for our pleasure. I
salute you Jeremy , as I do your returning effort with your new old/site of
"Delta.Bring4th.org" , an LoO forum as well. It was so thoroughly hacked it had
to be shut down for some time, but happily is reopened for business. There is
Carla of course, and she also has an LoO forum as well. And then of course there
is David. Did I say "I salute you David?"

Although as said, there is no authority, there are only seekers, student and
scholars at best. I am honored that David has honored me as one, both publicly
and privately as well, as I do him, as I do Jeremy, as I do Carla, as I do
anyone that has read, and read, and read as much, and then applied.

I took a commitment many years ago to "The Material" and dare say I have read
the material as much as anyone on the list could, and for as long, equally
without authority, and yes, that includes David and Jeremy, and Carla as well.
We are all simply seekers. There is no contest here, is there? Almost
instantaneously after the "The Books" were made available, I came in possession
of them from a most brilliant friend, physician, and colleague. It is not a
contest however, and I only share this in that I have admittedly taken David to
task as a result of interpretation, and specifically on four distinct issues, as
the student/seeker we all are. I am meticulous in record keeping, as it is my
requirement, manner, and profession, and wherein all this history twixt David
and Drake began.

If we are to make peace David, as an exercise and experiment into 6D wisdom
consciousness, and I do wish it, as discord has never been my intent, honestly,
only investigation, then let us do so with the story, and in full integrity. I
have read your responses and postings. I have never raised a sword or insult
against you. Ever. I have questioned only interpretation. You have a radio
interview upcoming. You know I will be listening and wishing you the best. With
that in mind, here is my offering as gesture. The story for peace within the
asc2k, as well as in mind, and heart for all, as well as for you.

I took David to task on four points in private, as well as in public that
David promulgated as theory, or action, and that I questioned . Only by
discourse and action alone may we make peace or advance ourselves, thus
distinguishing our spirit. With that in mind, let us lay this to rest forever.

The four points were:

(1) UFO Mass landings/ rescue missions by ET's: I found no basis of this in
the Material. I questioned it strongly and challenged it openly. David and I
went round the pencil with it until he conceded there was no factual basis in
this belief from the Ra Sessions, but only other than his own dreams and those
of others, such as Scott Mandelker. I applaud David. The sign of a scholar
(2) Censorship: I agree with it when it veers off of established guidelines. I
strongly disagreed with censorship otherwise. I made a stand. In the specific
case in question, I offered my professional opinion as a physician, a link to
the Bird Flu sham. I openly said it was a sham. BTW: what ever happened to the
Bird Flu death rattle? It died a whisper of a death, as I stated it would . It
was horrible science perpetrated by profit only.The link was finally posted, but
only after it was innocently and mistakenly rejected by the moderator as being
off topic, when in fact Bird Flu was very much a hot topic.
(3) The failed Jesus Mission and the Jesus entity as being codependent: Tobey
Wheelcock brought out the researched facts and I applauded him publicly. I also
applauded David publicly for his public retraction. The sign of an excellent
scholar.
(4) Negative Greeting discussion: I stated for the record that using this term
as a frivolous accusation in 3D, each time an individual were to disagree with
ones own sentiments was bending the information, and also inflammatory. I
never disputed that higher densities do not utilize lower densities to offer
negative greeting, but only that I believe it, like densities, certainly has
more significant meaning of power when utilized by these very same higher
densities ( i.e. 5D). 3D is just 3D, and when we look around, this is what it
looks like, us, whether we're utilized by 4th or 5th (or not). Confusion and
distortion and turtles all the way down.

It was to this topic I was engaged in with Tobey Wheelcock that David entered.
It became personal, as a result of past history. Suddenly I was an ilumnst
infiltrator attempting to gain financial control, threatening the moderators
with "whats in their best interest", etc.
(1) I state again categorically, in order for a financial interest, an offer
would need be tendered first, then accepted. Neither of these transpired. I've
never even met David.
(2)David openly stated "Jabulon" to me on a post. I've read a little in my
time. I knew what it meant. It isn't that secret. Do a google search. Please. It
simply means "The secret name of God revealed". I said "Jabulon back to you my
friend". David states he layed a trap he knew couldn't be resisted by a Mason of
the 30th degree? "Jabulon" is hardly that sinister in knowledge as google will
show. Would an elitist ilmnst secretive Mason really reveal himself online and
ever fall to this? Nonetheless, suddenly I'm suspect of being a 30th degree
Masonic member.

I'll take it that David is under great duress and anxiety as he states, and
this as a result of going out on those limbs he must. I'll accept it all. As I
stated, I'm just a cyber personality with nothing at stake and nothing to loose.
David has more at stake, and I understand and even empathize with you David.
Your out on the limb. That is a courageous, as well as foolhardy and noble. My
deepest blessings and best wishes.

Having said this, with your permission, I will continue to be a stickler for
the Material. I would ask others to help us all toward this effort. I continue
to offer again and again that this is a damn good thing. Not a bad thing. If
this is a problem, I will happily withdraw. I've offered so twice now. By
offering however, and by stating why, I'm now accused of martyring? I will stay
then. But by staying, I will hold anyones feet to the fire on the Material as I
invite you to hold mine, as we should anyone, including mom and dad, and Jeremy,
and Carla, and David. None of us are authorities. Not me. Not David. Not you. We
are all seekers. When one falters, we all do. I have said this repeatedly as
well. How many times must I applaud, acknowledge, and promote David. David if I
have offended you, sorry. But show me where I have done so personally? By
questioning interpretation only? Again, I feel for you and the stress. I
apologize. Will you too apologize? I offer my hand in peace. "I
believe in the Material". You know I do. May we get on with the business of
seeking, and doing so together. You certainly have my permission, as much as you
do my request, to correct me on the material when I falter.

On another note: Anyone catch this?

"The Bush Administration has demanded that Google Inc provide details on what
its users have been looking for through its popular search engine. ... "

I could speak to this so much more by suggesting that infiltration is
everywhere, from far higher and ominous sources than one foolish member
suspected of foolishness. To be ignorant of this is childish .

I have made by best and most noble attempt here. Will it be accepted or are
too many invested in continuing?

Faithfully with L/L

Drake

Monica Leal <lealdragon@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=a4fR9gqT8R0tKs7nadAEXPV3cQPULR5OJ-XcawBF8pe-QleHomoJGNk1tO6gn7YlRRCeuz_rLQsR4yDP)> wrote:
The way I see it, there are only 2 possibilities:

1.David is correct that Drake is an infiltrator, has a malicious agenda to
derail David's work, and is thus responsible for the `Negative Greeting.' If
this scenario is correct, then the question is: was publicly attacking and
exposing the source of the negative greeting the most effective means of
neutralizing it?
Whether it was or not, what's done is done, so the NEXT question is: how can we
harmonize after this occurrence of discord?

-OR-

2. Drake is correct in asserting his innocence, and in fact is merely a seeker
of Truth and a stickler for accuracy, and what David perceives as `attack' is
merely Drake attempting to hold David to a
high standard.

==> I ask you: which has created the most division: Drake's questions, or the
taking of sides that has occurred in the last few days? <==

IF David is wrong in his suspicions, and again, even he admitted that he MIGHT
be, then we can all help him the most sending him lots
of love and light,

Since Drake and David are mirrors of each other, the solution is still always
the same: we must respond in a loving manner to BOTH of them. For they are ONE.
As we ALL are ONE.

In David's latest message, he disclosed some `negative' things about Carla and
Jim.It does NOT matter whether David is correct or Drake is correct. The
solution is still the same: LOVE AND FORGIVENESS BY ALL INVOLVED.

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
whatever.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Chuck

01-19-2006, 08:22 PM

Hi all..

I was going to respond to all of this with a long drawn-out essay on the
process that has just transpired, but as I?m sure most everyone would be put
to sleep by it, I have demurred. I actually went back yesterday and re-read
all of the posts. That was quite time consuming, but I wanted to get a sense
of ?what happened? here.

I agree with the jist of what Drake and Monica are trying to say. The
unfortunate thing that I see in all of this is that the entire process
turned into somewhat of a ?pack mentality?. (It?s funny, weird sort of, but
I was looking for a Scottish saying to send to Neil, just as a good will
thing, and I found this one: ?All dogs go down on the strange dog?). (no
implication that you?re strange Drake. That?s just the saying..OK?)

My last post quoted one of the RA sessions. I thought it very germane to the
situation, and I think Neil understood what I was trying to say when I asked
?where did the light go?. (I was going to say ?where did OUR light go?, but
decided not to make it so personal). Nevertheless, I was concerned that we
were beginning to drift:

?When a group continues to seek the transient information, the positive
contact gives hints here and there that such information is not of
importance, but when the group persists in seeking this kind of information,
the positive contact, in order to observe the free will of the group, must
slowly withdraw and is then eventually replaced by a negative contact which
is only too happy to give this kind of information, but with less desire for
accuracy and with maximal desire to remove the group from the ranks of those
who serve others?. The Law of One, Book V, Fragment 3 Session 8, January
26, 1981

And: ?then the negative entities have been successful in removing the power
of the group?s light and have gathered it for themselves.?

We call ourselves ?light workers?, and as I have said numerous times, the
quintessential purpose of what we are ?supposed? to be doing here in this
incarnation, as far as my understanding goes, is to bring a little more
light into the world. To show, by our example, that there IS another way,
and that it can be had. ?The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand?, so Jesus said.
That means right here, and right now. And what we do each day, with all of
those we contact, either contributes to that opening of the doorway to
intelligent infinity, or obfuscates it. My favorite quote is still ?To
search for principle was in error, my own nature is sufficient?..

What that means to me is that just to ?BE?. To just go out into the world
and be the best person that we can be, and to let that light shine on
everyone we contact.

At any rate, I was dismayed to see what LOOKED to me like some of us turning
on others. How can this be? Are we not all the same thing? Are we not one?
Should we, of all people, not be practicing what we learn/teach, and seeing
each other in the loving heart of inclusion and acceptance, rather than
ostracism?

Fortunately, the dust has begun to settle, and I think we have all found
peace in each other?s arms again. We NEED to support each other, and I?m
sure it goes without saying that we need EXTRA support for David. As Drake
says ? David is the one hanging it all out there, and putting his
personality on the line, for all to see and criticize. That is a brave and
noble thing that you do David, and you?ve GOT TO KNOW that we here love you,
respect you, even dare I say admire you. You don?t want to be the
figurehead, but you are, nevertheless. You are the catalyst, (good catalyst,
not bad), you are the lightning rod, you are the sun around which we
revolve, (at least in our spiritual seeking).

I don?t want to get all sloppy and syrupy here, so I?ll quit, but know David
Wilcock that we are with you! We may disagree, but that is OUR free will
expressed. You are NOT perfect. You make mistakes. We KNOW that, we know you
are fallible, but we love you and cherish what you do despite your human
failings. We continue to participate because we know that you are the one
who is leading our way.

I have only one real piece of advice, and of course you may discard it
easily as you may desire. After all, I am not in your shoes, and only live
your life vicariously, by your generous sharing of it with the rest of us.

But after I read back through ALL of these posts (two or three times!), the
one thing that stuck out at me was that you David, among all of us, because
the responsibility IS yours, must follow the first of The Four Agreements,
and be impeccable with your word. Your word, because your audience is so
much greater than any of us, is more powerful than our word. Even more than
our collective word, because YOU alone have the forum, the soapbox, the
podium. (Heck, how many of the rest of us have been on Coast-to-Coast? Well,
there you have it)!

(Or like I told my son today, ?Seasons come and seasons go, but forum posts
are forever? ;^)

But know that you also represent US with your word, and so we may want to
add our two cents and make corrections. Make no mistake though, that is NOT
criticism. We simply want to get it right, because we all want this thing to
get out to the world!

Better that you suffer the slings and arrows of this group, and hopefully be
made stronger in our loving embrace, than to suffer at the hands of those
outside who would gladly destroy you and ALL of this work. And where then
would the rest of us be with no David? We would cease to be, me thinks.

We?re with you man! We are with you. You are loved more than you will know,
and we will all be praying, treating, meditating, whatever you call it, to
help insure that what you have embarked on can help turn our small light
into a star, shining brightly and beckoning the rest of the world to join
in. We CAN make a difference, and if our small contribution helps make what
you do better, then perhaps the distress that we visit on each other is
worth it.

So the journey begins.

I?m really really glad I am here with all of you, and I know that I am
blessed for having found this place. (And I know I have David to thank for
that opportunity!)

Peace and Light and Hope and Love be with you David, and with all of us
indeed!

Chuck.

_____

From: asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=FcmT882pNV0Zv9lAC1NWBMSk46agzIEhHJPSAn md0CPn0Bdp99uf_ygkLZsu4H5vm_2qQ_X-RzF38eQE5g) [mailto:asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=FcmT882pNV0Zv9lAC1NWBMSk46agzIEhHJPSAn md0CPn0Bdp99uf_ygkLZsu4H5vm_2qQ_X-RzF38eQE5g)] On Behalf Of E.Drake

Having said this, with your permission, I will continue to be a stickler
for the Material. I would ask others to help us all toward this effort. I
continue to offer again and again that this is a damn good thing. Not a bad
thing. If this is a problem, I will happily withdraw. I've offered so twice
now. By offering however, and by stating why, I'm now accused of martyring?
I will stay then. But by staying, I will hold anyones feet to the fire on
the Material as I invite you to hold mine, as we should anyone, including
mom and dad, and Jeremy, and Carla, and David. None of us are authorities.
Not me. Not David. Not you. We are all seekers.

Petrus

01-20-2006, 03:14 AM

> We are all anonymous here. Lets be honest. The only one we know who is
real is David. All the rest of us are just cyber names behind cyber print.
He's gone >public, and out on a limb. For the record, I have applauded and
acknowledged David over, and over, and over again for that. I'll do it once
more for the record: >"David, I applaud you".

"Why do you call me, Lord, Lord, and do not do as I say?"

Acknowledgement on its own is cheap, Drake. As Ed says, and as you yourself
are saying here, David's real strength is his honesty, humility, and
vulnerability...it's also what sets him apart from any other New Age or
personal development leader that I've ever heard of.

If people here want to accuse me of putting David on a pedestal, then that's
fine...I'll come out in the open and say that yes, David *is* on a pedestal
in my own head. What people are missing though is that the *only* reason
why I've been able or willing to put David on a pedestal myself though is
entirely because he doesn't put himself on one.

David is human. He hurts, he gets overwhelmed, he gets confused and afraid
just like the rest of us do...but here's the big difference:- He admits it
to us. He tells us about what's happening to him, in (sometimes very
graphic *grin*) detail. For that, even if for no other reason at all, I
honestly do love the man. In saying that though, David isn't on any kind of
"pedestal" in my own mind that isn't attainable by anyone else. I can and
do feel exactly the same degree of admiration for anyone who is willing to
lay themselves completely bare. This is not so small a group,
either...Chris told me there are more than 800 of us. To completely lay
down all aspects of your flawed humanity for the scrutiny of that many takes
a lot of guts...it also takes an unusual absence of pride and
self-deception.

If you want us to value you to the same extent, then do the same thing. Go
"out on a limb" (as you put it) yourself. Come into the light and tell us
about yourself...where you are from, what it is that you do...your hopes,
your fears, your dreams, your vision for this emerging society that is about
to be born. The social memory complex is completely inclusive, Drake...it
benefits from new members...but if you want to join, you can't hold anything
back.

I understand that is scary...it has been very scary for me as well at times,
(more disclosure! *grin*) but you have only to realise that from it you can
only gain...you will not lose.

01-20-2006, 08:29 AM

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=peqnzCRPxL8sk5Ac7HUfZ6kd_LZRUufF-I6PwiKnKiOLWA85vVxcyR0JXvcF8x_FVkHbsh-Thx7e39M), "Chuck" <chuck@i...> wrote:
> Better that you suffer the slings and arrows of this group, and
hopefully be made stronger in our loving embrace, than to suffer at
the hands of those outside who would gladly destroy you and ALL of
this work. And where then would the rest of us be with no David? We
would cease to be, me thinks.
> We're with you man! We are with you. You are loved more than you
will know, and we will all be praying, treating, meditating, whatever
you call it, to help insure that what you have embarked on can help
turn our small light into a star, shining brightly and beckoning the
rest of the world to join in. We CAN make a difference, and if our
small contribution helps make what you do better, then perhaps the
distress that we visit on each other is worth it.
> So the journey begins. >

pi: (i am aware that cheerleading usually is frowned upon, i duly
apologize to the rules, rulemakers, & enforcers.) :)
Chuck, et.al.,
The love given in this & other posts is infectious! Thank you for sharing.

> > ...this is a damn good thing.

pi: i stand to be corrected, BUT the use of 'damn' unwittingly makes
this a frightful oxymoron, since 'damn' means 'condemn as harmful'
(damn accident) or 'adversely judge' (damn their view) or 'unworthy of
consideration' (not worth a damn) or 'hated' (a damn lie). A damn good
thing would be condemnable & good. :)

IMHO, the growing acceptance & pervasive use of the word 'damn' is a
subtle injection of negative greeting into consciousness & as harmful
to spiritual health as fried pork may be to physical health. :)

peace & love, pi

Dave M.

01-20-2006, 02:18 PM

> (1) UFO Mass landings/ rescue missions by ET's: I found no basis of this in
the Material. I
> questioned it strongly and challenged it openly. David and I went round the
pencil with it until he
> conceded there was no factual basis in this belief from the Ra Sessions, but
only other than his own
> dreams and those of others, such as Scott Mandelker. I applaud David. The sign
of a scholar

I don't remember David ever saying in posts that mass landings/rescue missions
were mentioned in LoO. I
have always known this to be David's opinion, which he is certainly entitled to,
and which he has stated
many times before. So to say that he "conceded" is a bit distorted in that he
never concealed it to
begin with.

This is not merely a LoO group. Quoting the list rules:

"Possible topics include Mr. Wilcock's written work, personal experiences and
thoughts related to that
work, material upon which Mr. Wilcock has based his research (Ra / The Law of
One, Seth, etc. - see the
list of recommended reading materials in the "Files" section), and new
scientific / empirical data
related to Mr. Wilcock's research."

So by stating his opinion, David is certainly within guidelines. If he did not
explicitly state that
this was his opinion, then I could see how it could be misinterpreted by newer
members. Yet it is too
much to expect that David be so self conscious when posting as to always preface
his statements with
"this is my opinion".

>I never disputed that higher densities do not utilize lower densities to offer
negative greeting, but
>only that I believe it, like densities, certainly has more significant meaning
of power when utilized
>by these very same higher densities ( i.e. 5D). 3D is just 3D, and when we look
around, this is what it
>looks like, us, whether we're utilized by 4th or 5th (or not).

It could be argued that 3D negative greetings can be more powerful than those
whose source is of higher
densities, surely they are more prevalent. 3D entities are capable of
enslaving, torturing, and
murdering other 3D entities. They are also capable of emitting negative
vibrations. We can always,
with free will, send 5D greeters love and send them packing, but this method
will not always work with a
3D greeting. Also, many people are not sufficiently polarized to receive 5D
greetings, be they positive
or negative, but everyone is quite capable of receiving greetings from other
3D'ers.

L&L, Dave

E. Drake

01-20-2006, 03:54 PM

"Dave M." <dmeye@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=Mk1gTvB3JOzOVH4o5JvPLwR8i64LyjbYj0LTZt NrLPnw9MlQDr5jPH6RPqXeQosXtS65pE238t_Y)> wrote:

We can always, with free will, send 5D greeters love and send them packing,
but this method will not always work with a
3D greeting. Also, many people are not sufficiently polarized to receive 5D
greetings, be they positive or negative, but everyone is quite capable of
receiving greetings from other 3D'ers.

Drake: Here,here 'Dave M'. Very good. Very good indeed. Here is some real
meat, real thought, and real consideration for contemplation on the Material.
You may be absolutely right in this very thought provoking statement above. If
true, then 3D greetings are indeed far more hellish and far more brutal and
typically far "less insidious" , and thus, my point. If we were to look around,
this is what 3D looks like. But 3d does not have as its intent to depolarize.
Herein exists a distinct differentiation between the one knock at the door and
that of the other, clearly. A 5D *non possible* greeting, can, as you point out,
(1) simply be shooed away, but then according to your sentiments (2) it may
simply also not be received at all by a 3D'er due to his lack of sufficient
polarization of this self same 3D'ers incapacity of hearing the rap at the door.
But if a 3d'er "comes a knockin" as it were, its typically rather apparent, and
thus of a distinct differentiation/orientation and of a
less nefarious or insidious rapping, notwithstanding the same rather unpleasant
results, but with the gross exception that a 5D'er does so to depolarize, where
as a 3D'er does so without this consciousness in mind, or capacity. This was my
simple point from the outset.

Now we're back on track. Anyone care to help out on Dave's statement that a 5D
greeting can not be received due to insufficient lack of polarization? Can the
5D'er get directly through to the insufficiently polarized 3D'er blockhead in
any case, without the downstepping utilization of a 4D'er goostepping to his
command to 3D?

Dave M regarding statements on :UFO Mass landings/ rescue missions by ET's:

"Dave M." wrote: <snip> "I don't remember David ever saying in posts that mass
landings/rescue missions were mentioned in LoO. I have always known this to be
David's opinion, which he is certainly entitled to, and which he has stated many
times before. So to say that he "conceded" is a bit distorted in that he never
concealed it to begin with."

<snip> "This is not merely a LoO group."
<snip> "Possible topics include Mr. Wilcock's written work, personal
experiences and thoughts related to that work, material upon which Mr. Wilcock
has based his research (Ra / The Law of One, Seth, etc. - see the
list of recommended reading materials in the "Files" section), and new
scientific / empirical data
related to Mr. Wilcock's research."

Drake: Herein lies a bit of a dilemma, thus perhaps creating the distortion you
speak to. I have been operating under the assumption that there exists a *tacit
acceptance* and an agreement to the Ra Material, and that each asc2k member have
read and *accepted* the Ra Material. Tacit means tacit. Pretty self explanatory.
But if this is not an LoO study group, with tacit acceptance to the material,
and it is a David Wilcock study group, then there are bound to be differences.
Now what do we do about that? We may dispute and refute the Ra Material
endlessly then, and this may be OK with David, and we may do so with other
materials in consideration and contradiction. But also it is clear we may not(?)
and should not(?) according to the agreement. This may present a problem as you
can see, as there are certainly going to be endless considerations and
contradictions, thus making it difficult to steer the conversation ever in one
single direction, i.e. The Ra Material. If so, it would
explain all the confusion to my postings with respect to staying on point to
the Ra Material.
What then is the resolution to this?

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and
used cars.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Monica Leal

01-20-2006, 06:27 PM

Oh wow, good point. So then what are we agreeing to with our 'tacit'
agreement? The LoO or David's many interesting opinions, conclusions,
etc. based on his many studies, interpretations, dreams, other
sources, etc. ?

I'm not trying to be difficult. I just would like to clarify this.

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=YAk2QRyZVXSrVPI0VwCr335yl535YBB1cQfA4q u6pxQaP7sed_w3ePtyUCqMlUQ3FliM71xlayMLvqRb3bo), "E. Drake" <truelyndeeply@y...> wrote:

>
> Drake: Herein lies a bit of a dilemma, thus perhaps creating the
distortion you speak to. I have been operating under the assumption
that there exists a *tacit acceptance* and an agreement to the Ra
Material, and that each asc2k member have read and *accepted* the Ra
Material. Tacit means tacit. Pretty self explanatory. But if this is
not an LoO study group, with tacit acceptance to the material, and it
is a David Wilcock study group, then there are bound to be
differences. Now what do we do about that? We may dispute and refute
the Ra Material endlessly then, and this may be OK with David, and we
may do so with other materials in consideration and contradiction. But
also it is clear we may not(?) and should not(?) according to the
agreement. This may present a problem as you can see, as there are
certainly going to be endless considerations and contradictions, thus
making it difficult to steer the conversation ever in one single
direction, i.e. The Ra Material. If so, it would
> explain all the confusion to my postings with respect to staying on
point to the Ra Material.
> What then is the resolution to this?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, &
more on new and used cars.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

* Zia

01-20-2006, 07:40 PM

>Drake: We are all anonymous here. Lets be honest. The only one we know
who is
real is David. All the rest of us are just cyber names behind cyber print.
He's gone >public, and out on a limb. For the record, I have applauded and
acknowledged David over, and over, and over again for that. I'll do it once
more for the record: >"David, I applaud you".

Petrus: "Why do you call me, Lord, Lord, and do not do as I say?"

Acknowledgement on its own is cheap, Drake. As Ed says, and as you yourself
are saying here, David's real strength is his honesty, humility, and
vulnerability...[it's also what sets him apart from any other New Age or
personal development leader that I've ever heard of.]

*Hi Drake and Petrus :) hmmm I am VERY new here, and am rather surprised at
how this theme keeps going on and on... I have bracketed [..] above Petrus
because this comment is not surprising because no one is to talk about 'any
other New Age or personal development leader' on this forum, from what I
have understood of the rules. Please correct me if this is not so. It
would appear if David introduces some other site or some other person, then
it becomes on topic, or acceptable. I also found the quote from Jesus?
above most distasteful in its use.

I personally see that the Law of One has sooo much in it, that there is
enough food for thought and discussion for a long time to come, because
there is so much confusion seemingly, on the basics even. Then we have
additional information from Q'uo, and all the specific quotes relative to
'The One Known as Jesus', and my goodness, if all of this was really deeply
covered, would take quite along time.... as I see it :)

Then add to that, all of the David's own website, and my goodness that is
more than extensive, and many are asking for more as well... that is an
enormous amount of information. Admittedly, on the website and on this
forum, there is experiential sharing, which seems to open us to sharing as
well of our own experiences, and from my brief encounter of this, encouraged
by David, and his wonderful understanding and encouragement to those going
through the 'dramas' of their lives, this can be very healing.

Interestingly when I read the 'rules' for being on this website, I wondered
if I would fit in, because they are extensive to me. And although some of
the requirements have been a part of my life, many years ago (without
computer database), I am not current in quoting :) Yet it does seem very
odd to me, when one is then quoting the required reference materials and
posing questions etc, that this is deemed unacceptable... goodness
confusion...

I come from the school of thought, that says 'die to yesterday' and 'today
is a new day'. Or let the past go, and and once something is said: well
once is enough :) Forgive and forget! I am astonished at the re-hashing
over and over, changing viewpoints, right wrong and otherwise :) I
mentioned briefly a few days ago the issue of competition, which no one
seems to want to consider may be occuring here. And from my understanding
and past teachings received, and I know would be covered in RA Material,
competition is really what caused the fall within ourselves in 3 dimensional
reality. Does this exist on higher levels? And are we caught in viewing
those higher levels now (that may have long ago changed by now) through the
eyes and filters of our own past conditionings on competition from 3 d?

It has been my experience that men tended to be competitive. And from that
women got contaminated, and played the same game. America prides itself on
the fact that competition in business is supposedly healthy. Yet it is
extremely unhealthy in thought and in operation. We seem to highlight
people's strengths and weaknesses, rather than really highlight our real
Oneness, and truly who and what we are. Each time we seek to move to
that... another burst of opinions, defenses, justifications, and goodness
knows what else does the rounds :)

Within competition is the need to 'perform'. Measuring of people's
performance. This is only slightly cloaked judgment. Understanding the
'root' of needing to perform, driving one's self by a set of standards, or
by past performances and the need to 'do better'.... wow that can bring
great understanding and perhaps course correction, yet the stress and
pressure is a heavy price to pay :)

Petrus to Drake: If you want us to value you to the same extent, then do the
same thing. Go
"out on a limb" (as you put it) yourself. Come into the light and tell us
about yourself...where you are from, what it is that you do...your hopes,
your fears, your dreams, your vision for this emerging society that is about
to be born. The social memory complex is completely inclusive, Drake...it
benefits from new members...but if you want to join, you can't hold anything
back.

****I found this demand to be most unkindly! To suggest to another HOW they
should share, and what they should share, was not part of the rules in any
way! We are ALL individuals, and with FREE WILL, this is an infringement as
I see it. This smacks of control and the desire to keep comparison and thus
judgment going. I am saddened by it. I value Drake, Petrus, David and
everyone else on this forum EQUALLY! Value is based upon who and what you
are!

Petrus to Drake: I understand that is scary...it has been very scary for me
as well at times,
(more disclosure! *grin*) but you have only to realise that from it you can
only gain...you will not lose.

****Again, there is NO guarantee how 'others' WILL respond. You could just
as easily feel Drake was 'competing' with David in sharing his own personal
experiences and continue the type of reaction that is occuring now within
the group. That would not feel like gain to Drake or anyone else, I assure
you. In sharing personal experiences in very great detail is heavily
focused upon the personality ego from my perspective. At some point we
would benefit in observing such behavior from being a co-creator, and what
one is doing from that perspective to literally re-create their reality and
new experience/s, from that creation. To some degree David appears to be
doing this, with his desire to complete his past conditionings and sharing
those, yet simply completing does not mean there is any future change UNLESS
we create it! And that is absolutely true for the sharing that occurs on
this forum as well :)

I have the pleasure of reading thoughts from some very great minds here.
Wow and long time standing within the group as well. It is my wish to
continue that, and in that endeavor to wipe the slate clean, create a new
foundation of Love and Trust, and Faith that we understand the
'misunderstanding', and go forward in Love and Trust from this point, with
the recognition that we are ALL EQUAL.

I know from experience that viewing from a higher level of consciousness of
what occurs on that level is very different to viewing from here in 3d to
say fifth level. If you were to spend time on the the fifth Level, you
would immediately recognize that whatever you thought INSTANTLY manifested.
And because of that, you would very rapidly decide to monitor and choose
your thoughts very consciously and very wisely. Otherwise you immediately
experience a rather undesirable outcome! Lessons are very fast! Many are
now capable of spending their night-time on the fifth level creating their
next day/days/weeks events. This is not new. We are creators! not reactors
:) And it all has to do with that little letter 'c'... it's all in what you
choose to see 'c' or how you choose to see 'c' it :) Seeing at the
beginning is creating, anything else is reacting :) Perhaps this is why we
are 'learn/teaching' in 'slow time'... we get a chance to review and change
our mind BEFORE IT HAPPENS :) that is a gift as I see it :)

A real clue is, re-read everything you write before you hit the send button.
And ask yourself more than once perhaps :) if you would want what is said,
directed AT YOU :) Ahhh then we might have very thoughtful sharing :) Z

* Zia

01-20-2006, 08:20 PM

"Dave M." <dmeye@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=6lechAAZJ24uftrDqcMZvTjJ9gYqmu-SzloosyiApeVrICdLLLDF72PM_eMPh7wZT0DjUiv-Lpat-sExAg)> wrote:

We can always, with free will, send 5D greeters love and send them
packing, but this method will not always work with a
3D greeting. Also, many people are not sufficiently polarized to receive 5D
greetings, be they positive or negative, but everyone is quite capable of
receiving greetings from other 3D'ers.

HI Dave :) I get such an odd feeling from this... on fifth level, there is
ALOT MORE LOVE than can be imagined in my humble opinion. Why are we
talking about sending a being on 5th level or dimension packing? Any
negativity on that level would bite them first!? I would have thought. Is
there some specific reference to this in the RA Material? We polarize at
and below the visible light level, which to me is 3d and below... 4th Level
has some conditioning perhaps going from here to there... yet by fifth and
sixth is there any polarity? So do you mean 'not sufficiently
"de"polarized'? I am having trouble with densities and levels... would
operate much easier if we were talking frequencies according to the
electro-magnetic spectrum, and levels in association with that! For me.

Drake: Now we're back on track. Anyone care to help out on Dave's
statement that a 5D greeting can not be received due to insufficient lack of
polarization? Can the 5D'er get directly through to the insufficiently
polarized 3D'er blockhead in any case, without the downstepping utilization
of a 4D'er goostepping to his command to 3D?

*Again I would say, insufficient lack of DEpolarization in 5D. Depolarized
meaning neutral, Love consciousness, rather than 3d polarity
consciousness????

Am looking forward to the RA Material references on this subject, for my
experiences are NOT negative polarized on that level at all! The Love is
tangible :) Z

Tobey Wheelock

01-21-2006, 09:50 AM

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=uEhjIxCMmL1sepX_fcd-2HaFQya1Fc77UkSWprfbDD6UbbMQ-MFcpd_CC5k8Ia6xitbjJcApB0jDZ7qEhn31), "* Zia" <zia_19@h...> wrote:
> Why are we talking about sending a being on 5th level or dimension
> packing? Any negativity on that level would bite them first!? I
> would have thought. Is there some specific reference to this in the
> RA Material? We polarize at and below the visible light level, which
> to me is 3d and below... 4th Level has some conditioning perhaps going
> from here to there... yet by fifth and sixth is there any polarity?

In Ra's system, fifth density is indeed polarized, as is early-to-mid
sixth density. The end of polarity does not come until mid-sixth
density, when negative makes the leap to positive.

TW

* Zia

01-21-2006, 11:09 AM

In Ra's system, fifth density is indeed polarized, as is early-to-mid
sixth density. The end of polarity does not come until mid-sixth
density, when negative makes the leap to positive.

TW

Ahhh thank you Tobey :) I come from a seven level system. Consequently
there are potential densities within each Level, not just one density as I
see it. Thus what RA calls density one, two and three, which in a sense is
our physical viewable world, is only Level One to me :)

In considering for example Jesus going 'invisible' in a crowd and walking
away, is easily understood when I consider frequencies, (which could be
indicators of density as well :) much like the propellor on an airplane or a
fan. On idle or slow speed, we are all vibrating at the same specific
frequency and see each other. As we speed up the fan to the next setting or
increase the power setting in an airplane, the blades start spinning
slightly faster and blink on and off :) Increasing the speed and thus the
frequency of the vibration, ultimately you do not see the actual blades
spinning and in fact can 'see through' without seeing any blades or
distortion for that matter! And our bodies being matter vibrating at
specific frequency, and increasing the power (energy) causes a very similar
condition in the body. It is the same energy that takes us to higher levels
of consciousness because it is all energy in vibration.

I have just put this in because this is why I am having trouble with
density. Density is also of frequency and a measurement of matter
(visibility) and thus level of consciousness one is accessing at any given
moment :) I am wondering if RA speaks to this and will search levitation,
bio-location, invisiblity etc...

Thank you to Chris and to you for these splendid url's that make my life so
much easier :) Z

Petrus

01-21-2006, 01:09 PM

Hi Zia,

> ****I found this demand to be most unkindly! To suggest to another HOW
they
> should share, and what they should share, was not part of the rules in any

If this came across as dictatorial, then I apologise. Drake still does have
a choice...I cannot take that away from him, and would not seek to do so. I
will admit that before this conflict, it had been my practice to simply
filter out the writings of those few here who did not resonate with me. I
have probably waded into this conflict more than I should have, primarily
out of a desire to bring about its' end.

> 'misunderstanding', and go forward in Love and Trust from this point, with
> the recognition that we are ALL EQUAL.

Absolutely, we are. That was part of my point...that David is entirely
equal to the rest of us, but simply that there were certain characteristics
of his, which are entirely attainable by anyone else, that I personally find
admirable.

Contrary to how it may have sounded, I do not have interest in mandating
anyone else's behaviour. I do of course have desires in terms of how I'd
like things to be, as does everyone, but just because I have those does not
automatically mean that they are going to be met. People are individuals,
and I'm aware that to try to disallow them to be otherwise would be to
engage in STS behaviour. What I was really trying to do was explain a
particular line of reasoning to Drake, but in my zeal to end the conflict, I
went too far and made specific demands of him which I probably should not
have. Unfortunately such behaviour is at times part of my own flawed
humanity.

> A real clue is, re-read everything you write before you hit the send
button.
> And ask yourself more than once perhaps :) if you would want what is
said,
> directed AT YOU :) Ahhh then we might have very thoughtful sharing :) Z

That's good advice...thank you. *hugs*

* Zia

01-21-2006, 01:37 PM

Contrary to how it may have sounded, I do not have interest in mandating
anyone else's behaviour.... snipped.... What I was really trying to do was
explain a
particular line of reasoning to Drake, but in my zeal to end the conflict, I
went too far and made specific demands of him which I probably should not
have. Unfortunately such behaviour is at times part of my own flawed
humanity.

Ahh Petrus you are indeed a most blessed human being, so honest and
sincere... I stand in honor of you and salute you... and return the *hugs*
ahhh I feel better already :) Z

Erik

01-26-2006, 03:49 PM

"Dave M." <dmeye@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=DcvEPfBXK0YBJ9axW-K3P0V3wjiFvkjmgyN4KTvMeerk9T9txI3lBqk_n0LROhHLVc9U FeBt3Nd6Sj1z)> wrote:

We can always, with free will, send 5D greeters love and send them packing,
but this method will not always work with a
3D greeting. Also, many people are not sufficiently polarized to receive 5D
greetings, be they positive or negative, but everyone is quite capable of
receiving greetings from other 3D'ers.

Drake: Here,here 'Dave M'. Very good. Very good indeed. Here is some real
meat, real thought, and real consideration for contemplation on the Material.
You may be absolutely right in this very thought provoking statement above. If
true, then 3D greetings are indeed far more hellish and far more brutal and
typically far "less insidious" , and thus, my point.

Erik: I for one, do not agree with this anology being very good.
The negative greeting never comes from 3D, but from the Infinite Creator facing
you with your issues.
A real negative greeting ( if succesfull) can change the path of a 6D entity,
due to its cleverness ( or i would say.. infinite knowledge of desires).

There are no negative greetings from 3D entities. They dont grasp to meaning and
therefore make the effect more karmic then a greeting ( service).

Imo, only.

In love/light and compassion,
Erik.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Monica Leal

01-26-2006, 06:15 PM

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=pIqG6K3ljvmicd51TE0xAG_R1ywufAQrTaDSCX ycU8tHErQbTJGuW-DD9J-TIASEW9sEx9oIM8mFAR9-HSv2), "Erik" <e.strasser@w...> wrote:
>
> The negative greeting never comes from 3D, but from the Infinite
Creator facing you with your issues.
> A real negative greeting ( if succesfull) can change the path of a
6D entity, due to its cleverness ( or i would say.. infinite knowledge
of desires).
>
> There are no negative greetings from 3D entities. They dont grasp to
meaning and therefore make the effect more karmic then a greeting (
service).
>
>

I submit that ALL negativity, whether it has originated in 3d or a
higher density, is ultimately from the Creator, for the purpose of
providing catalyst (what you call 'facing our issues').

If a higher density entity is successful in 'cleverly' tricking an STO
entity to change his/her polarity, then this too is part of that
entity's development.

The STO entity may have chosen to learn to be stronger in love and
forgiveness, and the experience of dealing with the negative entity
may be just the catalyst needed to accomplish that growth.

Personally my impression of Ra's attitude towards negative greeting
was that Ra considered it a normal thing and not to be focused on. Ra
answered questions about negative greeting because Don asked them, and
always the answer was that harmony, love, and forgiveness would
provide the greatest protection.

Long ago, I rejected the Christian concept of 'God vs the Devil - who
is gonna win - God had this plan but the Devil screwed it up' as this
way of thinking is polarized and emphasizes separation, and negates
the concept of a divine plan. I like to think that the Creator has
His/Her/Its? act together. Omnipotent, omniscient, and all that.

Ra seems to have a reverance for the One Infinite Creator, so that's
good enough for me.

When speaking with Christians, I often propose the radical notion that
maybe, just maybe, God really is in charge and the 'devil' is actually
part of that plan. Invariably the Christians think I'm nuts. They see
the 'devil' as the adversary, in a perpetual war with God.

Well, if STS entities are serving the Creator (and Ra makes it very
clear that they are) then why should we fear them? Any service they
provide is, well, service! so it must have a purpose beyond inflating
the STS entity's ego. It must have a purpose for us as well, since,
after all, we are ALL ONE.

So rather that giving them so much power, by thinking that they can
'trick' us or 'get the best of us', why not follow Carla's advice and
thank them for their service, while affirming our choice to be loving
and steadfast on our path?

It seems to me that there is a lot of potential for fear here, with
people worrying that they might be 'tricked' by a powerful 5d negative
entity. I don't think any of us would attract such an entity unless
there is some growth to be gained by the interaction. I'd rather see
everything as an opportunity for spiritual growth, by looking within,
then to run away from something out of fear.

That which we vehemently avoid, we end up inadvertantly attracting. Or
so I was taught in some visualization class I took many years ago.
I've found it to be true.

* Zia

01-26-2006, 06:36 PM

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=e52ewQLWVfTFOppviE6TX87G7_ZrLLZbSCrvpN Lw-2OcQFOcHtsj6yKbku997Cy8yzYjoUrWZg1GoS2oh7Q), "Erik" <e.strasser@w...> wrote:
>
> The negative greeting never comes from 3D, but from the Infinite
Creator facing you with your issues.
> A real negative greeting ( if succesfull) can change the path of a
6D entity, due to its cleverness ( or i would say.. infinite knowledge
of desires).
>
> There are no negative greetings from 3D entities. They dont grasp to
meaning and therefore make the effect more karmic then a greeting (
service).
>
>

HI Erik :) Well that 'Infinite Creator' facing me is my SELF :) I take
full responsibility for creating my reality, prior to coming into this
incarnation, for all events thus planned and running within my Soul, and
playing out in my reality, and if I miss my intended goal/s at any point,
this including the intensification of negative events which was in the 'fine
print', to get me back on course :) Either I create my reality, or I see
someone outside myself as doing this for me. I do not see it as an each way
bet :)

Only in full SELF-responsibility for every choice I make, every event that
occurs has my signature on it and my reaction or further creation in any
given moment, sets up the subsequent events in my reality :) What is hidden
(still operating and not understood), is still hidden within ME - within the
subconscious belief systems, and often it takes ADVERSITY for me to decide
to do something about it :)

For a 5d entity to send a negative greeting (were that possible), would
surely be an infringement upon my Free Will in this density as I see it :)
To give out 'negativity' for such a being would simply bring back negativity
(you get what you give), and certainly on 5d this has long ago been learnt
as I see it :)

When we OWN our own creations in all events that occur within our own
reality, then is when I personally see that I progress exponentially :) Z

E. Drake

01-26-2006, 07:53 PM

Erik <e.strasser@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=hsnNc7jXC8EQf4YFC8hYdlpnxxRgbZXaPDin6f vUbQJsCA9vlUP-AJ3pTotYWy0ElM-5IHFobHV_I4ys97wG)> wrote: "Dave M." <dmeye@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=BI1KGxTtpYpH8CI8zZcBBnM4Jp3SrCqxEEznUf XQub0NzSmiqDkgN767n37jGvWY9iLY2HZDKLGp4w)> wrote:

We can always, with free will, send 5D greeters love and send them packing, but
this method will not always work with a 3D greeting. Also, many people are not
sufficiently polarized to receive 5D greetings, be they positive or negative,
but everyone is quite capable of receiving greetings from other 3D'ers.

Erik: I for one, do not agree with this anology being very good.The negative
greeting never comes from 3D, but from the Infinite Creator facing you with your
issues.
<snip> There are no negative greetings from 3D entities. They dont grasp to
meaning and therefore make the effect more karmic then a greeting ( service).
Drake: This is a most interesting position Erik, and one that I would agree
with in large part as well. This was very much also my original point. I too
feel that although 2D , 3D, and 4D may be "manipulated/utilized" by 5D to do
it's work, but that only 5D grasps the true meaning, or has the ability to
directly offer true Negative Greeting to 3D. Although 3D may indeed create/offer
effect, 3D is just 3D , and thus hasn't the power/sufficiency of polarization to
penetrate this deeply as definition the meaning or the abiility of true
definition of offering negative greeting.

Thank you for your participation and input,

Drake

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E. Drake

01-26-2006, 08:09 PM

Monica Leal <lealdragon@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=jMSuLDQzHCDZOSTwwyezFrkMH5MOxOyyHy9KOB NviElFM_u533Q6ZbmLo1RfaS7gqbLvSfIzWUc1Pg)> wrote:
So rather that giving them (negative greeters) so much power, by thinking that
they can 'trick' us or 'get the best of us', why not follow Carla's advice and
thank them for their service, while affirming our choice to be loving and
steadfast on our path?

Drake: This is ultimately always the higher choice. Love, gratitude, and
thanks. Thus if 5D infringes/offers Negative Greeting, and is in fact accepted,
thus causing depolarization by 5D, or assuming one believes this as definition
for 4D or 3D as well, then it may cause accident or *bruised feelings*, it does
so as a result of the 3D'ers insufficient polarization, unawareness, and
inability of said 3D'er to give thanks, gratitude, love and a simple "no thank
you." This being so of 5D, then certainly it must be more so to 4D, 3D, or 2D?
Any thoughts?

Faithfully,

Drake

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Erik

01-27-2006, 09:30 PM

Zia Writes:

I Erik :) Well that 'Infinite Creator' facing me is my SELF :) I take
full responsibility for creating my reality, prior to coming into this
incarnation, for all events thus planned and running within my Soul, and
playing out in my reality, and if I miss my intended goal/s at any point,
this including the intensification of negative events which was in the 'fine
print', to get me back on course :) Either I create my reality, or I see
someone outside myself as doing this for me. I do not see it as an each way
bet :)

Only in full SELF-responsibility for every choice I make, every event that
occurs has my signature on it and my reaction or further creation in any
given moment, sets up the subsequent events in my reality :) What is hidden
(still operating and not understood), is still hidden within ME - within the
subconscious belief systems, and often it takes ADVERSITY for me to decide
to do something about it :)

For a 5d entity to send a negative greeting (were that possible), would
surely be an infringement upon my Free Will in this density as I see it :)
To give out 'negativity' for such a being would simply bring back negativity
(you get what you give), and certainly on 5d this has long ago been learnt
as I see it :)

When we OWN our own creations in all events that occur within our own
reality, then is when I personally see that I progress exponentially :) Z

Erik: Noe tell me Zia... If I AM ( let words be the meaning of the intention)
trying to tell you that i seek unification, no matter what polarization/energy i
posesses, would you Unity with Me?
Are there no more bounderies in your Own Created realization of Self that i
MIGHT not what you wish to unite with ( completely)?

Dont get me wrong or right... I woulld LOVE to unite ( in spirit) with all that
is Creation and beyont.
Thank you for your wonderfull radiation. I felt it and had no hesitation to
accept it,

Erik.

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