Honoring Honesty

[Michael Bergman]

When was the first time that I told a lie? I think it all started when I
referred to myself as ?I.? How could I help it though when everyone else
was teaching me to do the same? They all called me ?you? so is there really
anyone to blame? Then the lie of ?I? grew bigger as I decided that there is
also a ?my? that attaches to what is ?mine.? The lie of separation is
coming to an end though as unity awakens around the world and the feeling of
oneness begins to shine.

To be honest the question of lying is not really about when but why. Why
did I ever choose to be a liar? Why did I choose to start my own pants on
fire? Why did I choose to fabricate the truth? If everything is an
illusion does that mean that it is also a lie? I know that there was a time
around when I wore a bib that I was completely honest and never did I fib.
Perhaps I started lying when I learned and spoke my first word for now that
I look back at it every word seems so absurd. Every word that I speak to be
honest is a lie, for every word in our language is an expression of duality
saying ?hi?

I must confess however that there is a part of me that resorts to lying in
fear of not being loved by expressing the truth in my thoughts, in my speech
and in my actions. To be honest, I do not always feel loved and in those
times I cheat my self by being deceitful. It is all becoming clear now as
clarity is born. Those pants that are on fire have definitely been outworn.
So here I go, I am taking them off now and hanging them up on the
telephone wire and you know what I don?t care if you pull down my underwear
for I am desiring to stand naked and clear.

I have realized that the number one reason why I tell lies is because I care
so much about not hurting another self?s feelings when I know that the truth
of change might hurt. That is all changing now as I am leaving the cocoon
of honesty. My heart can no longer take all the lies and dishonesty for it
only ends up hurting myself. It is all about being honest my friends and I
finally feel that it is safe and clear now that I can handle sharing the
truth in utter honesty. No more lying not even a white one, no more
exaggerating my stories, no more twisting and distorting the truth of my
experiences, no more withholding information when questions are asked.
Honesty keeps the heart clear of the poisonous pain of lies. The child has
returned; heaven is here radiating from the clear honesty of my heart.

peace,
Mikey

[JACK MILLIORN]

Hmmm, please let us know how this turns out.

Jack
From: "Michael Bergman" <bergmanmichael@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=tjzl8-W1br6eSc71NJ1D7rYAwGNG17LIz0bu4JUiHio0a_uAjDzomNEk da12UenthFkK4C_cIqvM0Dpp)>


No more lying not even a white one, no more exaggerating my stories, no more
twisting and distorting the truth of my
experiences, no more withholding information when questions are asked. peace,
Mikey

[raistlinflux]

I don't understand why people are so affraid of the ilusory
separation. Isn't it that same separation that which faces us with
the
catalyst for growth. Separation here has a purpose. Yes all is one,
yet each of us, here and now, are separate. Instead of wishing to
return back to the unity of things so fast, which in the end everyone
returns to, why not spend some more time in the illusion. Learn some
more lessons, make more choices.

I just happen to think that a lot of people who believe in the all is
one theory have a tendency to do so because they have had either
enough of life's hardships or are affraid of those to come, and they
want to just get there faster. Some, I'm sure, have an inner grinn
knowing that unity is near and there's no more work to do. But unity
and knowledge is not of this dimension, I think.

So instead of trying to make a desperate dash for the next level, now
that we are starting to understand what separation is and its
purpose, why not embrace it and learn more lessons from it, rather
then running home to mommy?

And why this urgency all the time, to advance, to get there first, I
mean in an infinity of oneness, why is there an urgency? How can
there
be one? How can you get there first if time doesn't exist? I guess
it's all driven by a desire to not suffer, to finally understand, and
finally realize the happiness and love that is us, yet still... there
is something amiss to me. Guess there always will be in this world...

hope I stirred some nerves in this one,
i didn't choose raistlin-flux for nothing!

love is all

[JACK MILLIORN]

Frankly the whole idea of loosing ones individuality turns me off. What happens
to my experiences, my memories, my personality? Frankly I like myself I enjoy
who I am. I have friends that have been into this stuff for many years that
feel the same way, not thrilled about melding into the whole. Maybe by even
saying and thinking these things I'm sentencing myself to more density 3
experiences, more than I want. I would look forward to 4th density because it
seems like I would still have individuality and 4th density sounds really
interesting from the standpoint that some of the crap that goes on here in 3rd
would be gone. I certainly don't want to go backwards but inside I'm just not
ready to be scattered about.

Would I have to be so tired of pain, deception, lies to say "I give up." before
I would change my attitude?

Jack

From: raistlinflux
I don't understand why people are so affraid of the ilusory
separation. Isn't it that same separation that which faces us with
the
catalyst for growth. Separation here has a purpose. Yes all is one,
yet each of us, here and now, are separate. Instead of wishing to
return back to the unity of things so fast, which in the end everyone
returns to, why not spend some more time in the illusion. Learn some
more lessons, make more choices.

love is all

[amilius2001]

Might reconciling one's self to unity be more like finishing several
parts from a play by Shakespeare. There is something more to
the performer than the roles being played, yet in the moment the
roles are all engrossing. When the perfomance is finished, the
roles and characters played are savored and appreciated for the
gifts they are. William was quite insightful saying, " All the
world's a stage..." Forgetting the fullness of Being, the roles we
play gain import, intensity, and the opportunity for surprise. Might
life just be a roller coaster one acts on? An amusement park
ride for eternal creative beings with a few million years to play
with reawakening the soul? How else would you imagine such
Beings to savor the passage of time throughout Eternity? We
are all One. Pretty easy to appreciate, act-ually.

[Elmer]

I'm pretty sure all the material I've read indicates
you retain your individuality, memories, identity,
etc. through 5th density. I'm sure I'll be corrected
if I'm wrong, but all the entities that have described
themselves as group consciences have come from 6th
density.


--- JACK MILLIORN <jack.mill@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=jIs6KL-rV8an2UsH1NEJkrYQT6UMSlaSkynOkZYXOsICHSeS79YyiUgy8 eimm9-VTaOOom0gkG96AJyPYb4)> wrote:

> I would look forward to 4th density because
> it seems like I would still have individuality and
> 4th density sounds really interesting from the
> standpoint that some of the crap that goes on here
> in 3rd would be gone. >
> Jack
>

[Elmer]

I think this is a wonderful perspective. In the end,
we are where we're supposed to be, and we'll get where
we're going when we're supposed to get there. In the
mean time just relax and enjoy the abundance of
experience the creator has made possible for us.

That thought's gonna make me smile a lot today!


--- raistlinflux <raistlinflux@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=RpvaX0EG5EHSjKep16CksrpHA2Rl-KgVVP9YCmgL7FP5XPGX4ayyCLt1t60U--hAmmYv13tQK86tPdpNAFZ0)> wrote:

> I don't understand why people are so affraid of
> the ilusory
> separation. Isn't it that same separation that which
> faces us with
> the
> catalyst for growth. Separation here has a purpose.
> Yes all is one,
> yet each of us, here and now, are separate. Instead
> of wishing to
> return back to the unity of things so fast, which in
> the end everyone
> returns to, why not spend some more time in the
> illusion. Learn some
> more lessons, make more choices.
>> So instead of trying to make a desperate dash for
> the next level, now
> that we are starting to understand what separation
> is and its
> purpose, why not embrace it and learn more lessons
> from it, > love is all

[madonnafra]

Hi Mikey,

I was just talking to GOD about lying the other night. I asked if
there is ever a Good/GOD reason to lie and I was told
emphatically "NO"! We are the ones who justify lying for a myriad
of reasons. In the end we are only lying to ourselves. Thankyou
for sharing your amazing insights with us.

Love and Blessings,
Gayle
GS5555
Texas Wind



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[pschutzy]

I realize this sounds very simplistic but... as Part of the One aren't
we both?

Blessings and Joy
Patty

[JACK MILLIORN]

Yes now that I think about it I believe you are correct. I'll, for now, take
comfort in that.

Jack
----- Original Message -----
From: Elmer
To: asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=CSPMjuiI1O9MrpesZ3t9igaI0Brjpi4CnCIfSk rgfyEwHMvhT115TfJY08Ho3QS4pxK3FnY1UR-o76U)
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 6:57 AM
Subject: Re: [asc2k] Re: Honoring Honesty


I'm pretty sure all the material I've read indicates
you retain your individuality, memories, identity,
etc. through 5th density. I'm sure I'll be corrected
if I'm wrong, but all the entities that have described
themselves as group consciences have come from 6th
density.


--- JACK MILLIORN <jack.mill@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=DXRe1nl6Z9gH5Igsa0noRW7DwqWDnpyCPG3l1V Auq3CxQBXFlkCFn0xHxCKNzmxVbR34waUnc_wmxrMxn07zTw)> wrote:

> I would look forward to 4th density because
> it seems like I would still have individuality and
> 4th density sounds really interesting from the
> standpoint that some of the crap that goes on here
> in 3rd would be gone. >
> Jack
>




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[JACK MILLIORN]

I would think so.

Jack
----- Original Message -----
From: pschutzy
To: asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=F6a3T6entmkIFmIYPQEI_2JdI1mvkEe6uw-Kds0ZfSNNKziB9uo1T41qq01pP0utnhgily-jx_tty4ySq60)
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 7:40 AM
Subject: [asc2k] RE: Honoring Honesty


I realize this sounds very simplistic but... as Part of the One aren't
we both?

Blessings and Joy
Patty









SPONSORED LINKS Astronomy software Astronomy telescope Astronomy today
Computer science Astronomy magazine Astronomy


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[lealdragon]

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=9MWDHxhuFzN6cNaRv4mr3me0yJVUiMnkBGhldz 1MR2JzFFw-Y14LgiA3s1XdSME8OlI26wlBTveTSLM), "raistlinflux" <raistlinflux@y...> wrote:
> I don't understand why people are so affraid of the ilusory
> separation. Isn't it that same separation that which faces us with
> the
> catalyst for growth. Separation here has a purpose. Yes all is one,
> yet each of us, here and now, are separate. Instead of wishing to
> return back to the unity of things so fast, which in the end
everyone
> returns to, why not spend some more time in the illusion. Learn some
> more lessons, make more choices.
>


You've brought up some good points! I think it's a paradox: we need
the illusion of 'separation' in order to make use of catalyst, yet the
most effective way to utilize catalyst is to remember that we are all
one. For example, suppose there is the catalyst of someone being
victimized by another. The knowledge of oneness might help that person
to forgive the aggressor. Yet, the initial aggression of one being
directed at another 'separate' being is what triggered the catalyst in
the first place. So they really do work together and there isn't a
paradox after all.

I think you have a valid point, in that separation itself is not
necessarily a 'bad' thing but does have its purpose. I am reminded of
those people who believe in 'clearing' all 'issues.' I knew someone
whose quest in life was to uncover (thru kinesiology) ALL her
subconscious beliefs and eradicate them. I remember her telling me
about a belief that she 'had' to be in a monogamous relationship. I
said 'well what's wrong with that?' to which she said 'It is a
limitation!'

As if, horrors! we are not supposed to EVER have any beliefs or
limitations at all! This really made me think, and I concluded that I
did not particularly like her system. I realized that
sometimes 'limitations' are karmically preprogrammed, for our own
benefit, to get us to learn cerain lessons that we otherwise might
not. When we have learned those lessons, the preprogramming will be
cleared by our Higher Selves automatically, I would think.

Of course I have onsciously cleared many, many obsolete beliefs, like
those related to dogmatic religion. But ALL beliefs? Maybe her lesson
in life was to clear all her beliefs; it is not for me to say. It
seems a similar idea: that beliefs, illusion etc are all to be
eradicated at all costs. This is a very common idea. I agree that
maybe acknowledging and working WITH these things has its place.

btw what does 'raistlin-flux ' mean?

[lealdragon]

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=Rq7bfQnXGeUvwGUMbWL_SUU60BldbmB0z4mj1j poS0r46GCII0Wtski32uji3lrtY78P-XxobaJZF9Raep8), "JACK MILLIORN" <jack.mill@v...> wrote:
> Frankly the whole idea of loosing ones individuality turns me
off. What happens to my experiences, my memories, my personality?

This troubles me too. I know that Ra said 'nothing of any
importance' is lost, but that the entity's experiences are distilled
down to the important lessons learned, but still, the idea of losing
my personality, thoughts, memories, etc. is not appealing to me.

I have read about the idea that if one can remain lucid during
sleep, then s/he can remain conscious during the death process. This
idea has intrigued me and I have felt very strongly that I do NOT
want to forget my experiences in this liftime.

This is feasible to me, since I DO have fragments of memories from
several past lives. I feel that I have worked very hard in this
lifetime, and there are certain details that I just really do want
to remember.

So it's not just 4d, but death itself, that I would like to remain
conscious for. I wonder why this seems so important to me.

I wonder: do we really lose individuality, or do we just ADD to our
individuality the experiences of others?

[JACK MILLIORN]

It's amazing how similar our thoughts are. Can you expand on "remaining Lucid
during sleep." How would that be possible I wonder? Being practical minded I
know that in order to obtain the best rest one has to go into "REM' (Rapid Eye
Movement) phase otherwise, as in my own case where I have sleep apnea and cannot
get into REM unless I used a machine to keep me berating properly, one would
become, oh hell I can't think of the word, disoriented-fuzzy on a continuing
basis. (I have an excuse, I'm old.)

Jack
----- Original Message -----
From: lealdragon
To: asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=koEvQ3260SLU8lGNU3lCAajWEn89gE9W_BpKfx DNyzZsc3DvFzyjtT0Bs3cKEDduASXzmmftKRHSPOt9)
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 10:54 AM
Subject: [asc2k] Re: Honoring Honesty


--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=koEvQ3260SLU8lGNU3lCAajWEn89gE9W_BpKfx DNyzZsc3DvFzyjtT0Bs3cKEDduASXzmmftKRHSPOt9), "JACK MILLIORN" <jack.mill@v...> wrote:
> Frankly the whole idea of loosing ones individuality turns me
off. What happens to my experiences, my memories, my personality?

This troubles me too. I know that Ra said 'nothing of any
importance' is lost, but that the entity's experiences are distilled
down to the important lessons learned, but still, the idea of losing
my personality, thoughts, memories, etc. is not appealing to me.

I have read about the idea that if one can remain lucid during
sleep, then s/he can remain conscious during the death process. This
idea has intrigued me and I have felt very strongly that I do NOT
want to forget my experiences in this liftime.

This is feasible to me, since I DO have fragments of memories from
several past lives. I feel that I have worked very hard in this
lifetime, and there are certain details that I just really do want
to remember.

So it's not just 4d, but death itself, that I would like to remain
conscious for. I wonder why this seems so important to me.

I wonder: do we really lose individuality, or do we just ADD to our
individuality the experiences of others?









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[madonnafra]

Since my daughter Jenny's passing I have been discussing with her what she
encountered when she left her birthday suit behind. She told me many things
including that whomever we are when we were embodied does not change when we
disembody. We have the same thoughts and fears that we had in the physical. We
don't need a physical brain to think.

The biggest difference is that what we think manifests immediately. Positive
and negative and all points in between. This is comfort for some of us and
scary as all get out to others. It is wise to learn how to keep our minds
focused now so that we have the tools that we need later on. I guarantee that a
portion of the creation that we are capable of is not what we desire in our
hearts to manifest.

Many people are hoping that they get to wipe the slate clean when they return to
Spirit. We clean off the hard drive, our 3D physical existence, but we don't
lose our heart-drive. Our personality continues to evolve whether we are enrobed
in a body or not. What shock Souls must feel to realize that we don't get off
the hook that easily. That everything that we think, say, and do in this
lifetime and indeed in all lifetimes counts.

I will be sharing what Jenny has told me as soon as I finish writing the first
installment which describes the place that her Soul journeyed first. She has
now left that level and moved on to the next so there will be future
installments of Jenny's Journey Journal.

Love and Blessings,
Gayle
GS5555
Texas Wind



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[lealdragon]

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=_a0rq9bqzmii34BnHCf0bCEFdXOnQpNZfwwfsQ lLzZO5zPO-9nIJu-1n9VKoNw2VzE0kANFwIBcj5liP), "JACK MILLIORN" <jack.mill@v...> wrote:
> It's amazing how similar our thoughts are. Can you expand
on "remaining Lucid during sleep." How would that be possible I
wonder? Being practical minded I know that in order to obtain the
best rest one has to go into "REM' ...

Remaining lucid means retaining conscious awareness; to know that
one is dreaming. I have experienced this a few times and it was
quite exhilerating! There are many support groups, discussion
groups, books, etc. about the benefits of working consciously with
dreams for guidance, healing, etc.

However, even those who are able to lucid dream frequently do
caution that it is not healthy to attempt to lucid dream ALL the
time -there certainly is a need for 'normal' sleep. One person I
know who can LD at will told me that if he LDs more than about 3
nights per week, he is fuzzy and disoriented.

I have not had much success at it yet, although I am very intrigued
by it, so I cannot speak from experience.

As for how it is possible, there are techniques. Do a search on
amazon.com and you will find lots. They do seem to work, based on my
(limited) experience.

[idrather_be_skiing]

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=vIUHzmmRsiA1G2JamCeBg2QMMeFBqkZ-ZvmHIYhkfMTG7i5RpkR0xfMc7FjBXO2telg6gf-9O4cfXVC3bdY), "JACK MILLIORN" <jack.mill@v...> wrote:
> Frankly the whole idea of loosing ones individuality turns me off.
What happens to my experiences, my memories, my personality? Frankly
I like myself I enjoy who I am.
> Jack

Spiritual evolution is not a process of the annihilation of self. It
is a process of the expansion of the boundaries of self until they
encompass the entire Creation, which includes the individuality we
now
experience and all our memories. What is *gained* is the recognition
of Self as Creator, self as all life, self as Universe and self as
immortal infinite consciousness. It is like a little fish who
suddenly discovers that it is in fact the entire vast and amazing
ocean, *including* the little fish it once thought was the entire
limitation of its being. Fearing it is clinging to the known, the
caterpillar hanging on to its little leaf, frightened of becoming a
butterfly.

What parts of the personality are lost in this process? Only those
that are already creating pain in our lives -- the parts of us that
see others as foreign, separate, enemies to be feared or controlled,
or objects to be manipulated for personal gain. These aspects of our
personalities reinforce the illusion and keep us trapped in cycles of
creating suffering for others and experiencing its effects on
ourselves. With these, we are never ourselves. Without them, we
become our authentic selves, able to live more fulfilling and richer
lives than we could have ever imagined.

Unity with all is not a devolution into some grey featureless and
formless goo. It is an ascent to a perfect conscious harmony with
the
entire universe, and the fullest expression of our true nature --
love, bliss, being and creativity.

Love,
Dimitri

[boxofpoems]

We learned in school that tragedy is the highest form of art. On
this plane suffering is rampant. Enlightened souls must suffer with
us,
it seems to me, Amilius. Just as we detach from pain, must we also
learn to detach from earthly delights? Seems part of human nature is
to play, to entertain oneself.

To find peace, to integrate with source, must we step out of our
human
being?

[amilius2001]

<boxofpoems@c...> wrote:
. On this plane suffering is rampant. Enlightened souls must
suffer with us, it seems to me, Amilius.

A: Might it simply be that enlightening souls observe the choices
of others to 'suffer' their experiences rather than appreciate the
benefits they present? Suffering is a decision that the
expericence presented by the One Creator is for enduring and
not appreciation. Who might choose suffering over appreciation
for one's self? Only one who chooses to imagine not being the
Creator of their own experience. Masters appreciate this. Ra
appreciates this as well. All choice generates benefit for
purposes of appreciation within Graciously Organized Design,
which leads to your next point...

Just as we detach from pain, must we also learn to detach from
earthly delights? Seems part of human nature is to play, to
entertain oneself.

Acknowledging that pain serves a purpose is not the same as
detaching from it. One does well not to distort the purpose of
pain as something to disregard or miss appreciating.
Delighting in experience is not the same as requiring
experiences to know delight. Might this be why it is enlightening
to play with preferences yet disserving to choose addictions?

> To find peace, to integrate with source, must we step out of our
> human being?

Peace is to be found within. It is the inner connection with
source graciously regarding the myriad of distortions about one
in human experience. Why step outside of peace within the
human being to find that which resides within the imagining of
human experience, not outside of it? The One Creator is
peacefully within each of our experiences as Creative
Awareness of all that is about us. We are all One within this
Graciously Organized Design of the One Creator.

[GenoNess1@...]

In a message dated 8/17/2005 10:38:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
boxofpoems@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=-5K8BeY6RHl0Ss5r9fnIlghXI_3AkMSNju-dlUM9WkjtDSH9dnjN3cpPlrETJuQ1pYQj9YXW6a4g1ykCYQ) writes:
To find peace, to integrate with source, must we step out of our
human
being?


I think the ultimate expression of divinity is that of the lower reaching up,
and the upper reaching down, and the connection of the two. kind of like,
your lower self learning to fly and your higher self learning to walk. love,
kyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]