Channeled Material

[srachele2004]

dear group,

in response to recent posts regarding whether or not channeled
material is useful or accurate, let me add a few comments. i have been
in touch with several groups of energies or entities for some time,
and have various levels of communication with them. some are more
telepathic, while others involve some sort of energy merger.

unlike carla, jane roberts, and others, i do not go into trance, but
remain conscious when entities are present. everything that is said by
the entities goes through the filter of my discernment. i am rigorous
and cautious in making sure that the material is beneficial for my own
soul growth, and hopefully for others.

there are advantages and disadvantages to going into trance, depending
on the personality and level of awareness of the channel and entities.
in the case of carla, jane roberts and a select few others, going into
trance appears to ensure that no personality or ego of the channel
gets in the way of the message. therefore, the messages appear to be
coming from a high level of awareness and are truly useful in
assisting us in our own soul growth.

with conscious channeling, the quality of the message is often only as
good as the quality of the channel. even if the entity is highly
evolved and has a great understanding of the universe, the message can
get distorted if the channel is not able to translate the ideas into
meaningful words. also, if the entities are vibrating at a high
density, the physical energy required to hold that vibration may be
far greater than the body of the channel will permit, and so the
energy (and message) gets watered down.

imho, only about 10% of the channeled material out there is worthy of
serious consideration, for various reasons. the questions one should
ask when discerning the value of channeled material is as follows:

(1) is it relevant to my soul and spiritual growth?
(2) can the information be verified and cross-checked from other sources?
(3) what is the energy of the entity and channel? does it feel
uplifting and inspiring, or does it engender fear?
(4) what is the motive in delivering the message? is it to serve
humanity or is it to inflate the ego of the channel or entity?
(5) does the channel make an honest attempt to live the principles
being channeled? what is the awareness level of the channel during
ordinary consciousness?

in my case, the entities i work with are like members of an extended
family - it's just that they don't have bodies. they do not try and
take over my energy or force me to do things. they are gentle, loving
guides, there when i want them to be, and gone when i want them gone.
they encourage me to think for myself and follow my own truth, not
theirs. they offer their viewpoints and perceptions in order to help
me increase my awareness, not to save me. they do not pretend to have
all the answers, particularly about earthly matters that are better
suited to having bodies. they are the first to advise that one should
accept what feels right and reject what doesn't. they are not attached
to being right (even though they usually are).

there are sections of the loo that deal with some of these issues (i
don't have them in front of me, but i'm sure someone can think of a
relevant passage).

thanks for listening to my viewpoint on this.

blessings,

sal

[Charlie]

re the usefulness of channeling.

while i think that some channeled material can be helpful and has been, the
most tried and trusted method to enlightenment is via a living embodied
teaching presence. however, this method is a lot more challenging than going
to the books store and getting the material that resonates with us the most,
seeing as the ego is the most likely thing it will resonate, this is a gross
generalization but hopefully you know what i mean.

ra says that this harvest will be small, i presume far less than the number
of wanderers who are incarnated here and this is at the end of the master
cycle when it is the easiest to make the shift across the trans-dimensional
density rift. this tells me it must be incredibly hard to make the jump
during this cycle of time let alone at the end, i think a concerted effort
to educate ourselves as to who has made this jump during the cycle and to
understand their teachings and if possible to sit with their disciples or
from that lineage. ra mentions some entities who have made this transition
but they are from the other side so to speak.

aloha
charlie

[srachele2004]

--- in asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postid=t3nciyxe56kjc092tauatk6ngu7mikbftrbxpi spewod81li1iajbnpf7dscg9monig7x6miplojphqr), charlie <charlie@a...> wrote:
>
> while i think that some channeled material can be helpful and has
> been, the most tried and trusted method to enlightenment is via a
> living embodied teaching presence.

sal: you bring up an important issue - namely that of the
guru/disciple. in this time of great awakening, we are realizing the
proper role of the teacher - to make him/herself unnecessary. the
teacher is the wayshower. he/she also points out the pitfalls and
dangers on the path. but the most important thing we must remember is
that the teacher cannot and will not do it for us. we still must take
our own steps and make our own choices. the teacher can be an inner
guide or outer human or et. ultimately the only teacher is god which
is the i am within us, and the inner or outer entity's job is to
constantly remind us of that. this, imho, is the core teaching of ra,
jesus, buddha, etc.

--sal

[GenoNess1@...]

in a message dated 3/22/2005 2:53:21 am pacific standard time,
charlie@... (/group/asc2k/post?postid=knxxjrxi6yqoxv3plkz6r_vvjqgk-tdkn1m3g8njal3i30a4a6_pbtcp7fjnjnoi2exfsxtawpuewaf jkw_r) writes:
i think a concerted effort
to educate ourselves as to who has made this jump during the cycle and to
understand their teachings and if possible to sit with their disciples or
from that lineage.



kyle:
i think a lot of said teaching say 'relax, dont stress yoruself out or you
will be blind. but do not be compacent.' if it comes, it comes. thats what i
feel.
love, me


[non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[GenoNess1@...]

in a message dated 3/22/2005 10:08:53 am pacific standard time,
djw333@... (/group/asc2k/post?postid=h7weaw3gbchuygjgrpafjugkhybauulkrq1mv7 6-j5fvrjzc5maxpwm5clkm-ewy79ivxaz9mxny1p_2jw) writes:
green apples... chew on that one ...



kyle:
green apples are sour, i dont like them ones. :-)


[non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ed]

charlie wrote:
>
> re the usefulness of channeling.
>
> while i think that some channeled material can be helpful and has been, the
> most tried and trusted method to enlightenment is via a living embodied
> teaching presence. however, this method is a lot more challenging than going
> to the books store and getting the material that resonates with us the most,
> seeing as the ego is the most likely thing it will resonate, this is a gross
> generalization but hopefully you know what i mean.
>
there is also the challenge that the great majority of
"spiritual teachers" offer a combination of good information and
inspiration along with what seems to be inevitable: ethics, conduct,
greed and/or control issues. this generally happens as the teacher
becomes surrounded with adoring followers who genuinely feel that
spreading the teachings is more important than anything else in the
world. and much learning and growth happens as people deal with the
choices involving good teachings and, let's say, corrupt conduct or
organizations.

> ra says that this harvest will be small, i presume far less than the number
> of wanderers who are incarnated here and this is at the end of the master
> cycle when it is the easiest to make the shift across the trans-dimensional
> density rift. this tells me it must be incredibly hard to make the jump
> during this cycle of time let alone at the end, i think a concerted effort
> to educate ourselves as to who has made this jump during the cycle and to
> understand their teachings and if possible to sit with their disciples or
> from that lineage. ra mentions some entities who have made this transition
> but they are from the other side so to speak.
>
don't forget that ra estimated that 15% of the world
population would go to 4d positive in this harvest. that's about a
billion people, way above the number of wanderers. most people here
and many others we know will easily make the 51% positive guideline.

all the best, ed


> aloha
> charlie
>
>
>
> yahoo! groups links
>
>
>
>

[David Wilcock]

from: ed

> there is also the challenge that the great majority of
"spiritual teachers" offer a combination of good information and
inspiration along with what seems to be inevitable: ethics, conduct,
greed and/or control issues. this generally happens as the teacher
becomes surrounded with adoring followers who genuinely feel that
spreading the teachings is more important than anything else in the
world. and much learning and growth happens as people deal with the
choices involving good teachings and, let's say, corrupt conduct or
organizations.

dw: absolutely. i couldn't agree more, and have never had any desire for
"followers". oftentimes i wonder what the hell people find so
fascinating about me - because i'm just another schmo who's trying to
make sense out of this universe and compare notes as i go. some times i
have over-corrected to an extreme by completely ignoring this group and
the posts that go through it, since people seem to over-analyze whatever
i say...

green apples... chew on that one ...

anyway, nonetheless there is an opportunity to serve, so i lurk ...
:)

> ra says that this harvest will be small, i presume far less than the
number
> of wanderers who are incarnated here

dw: this statement of charlie's is not correct. very, very few wanderers
ever become trapped enough to need to repeat a major cycle. hitlr may be
one of the only examples we have.

> don't forget that ra estimated that 15% of the world
population would go to 4d positive in this harvest. that's about a
billion people, way above the number of wanderers. most people here
and many others we know will easily make the 51% positive guideline.

all the best, ed

dw: i have no idea where you heard 15% - but it wasn't from the law of
one series and it wasn't from any words that came through myself as an
instrument. the main reason why i responded here is to point out that
this figure was never given.

we don't know how many will make it. venus was a lot more harmonious
than we are here on earth and they didn't even break 20%. nonetheless
there is still an opportunity to have a major awakening on this planet.
i do what i can, the other light-bringers do what they can, and we hope
for the best, without being emotionally attached to the outcome. each
soul will go to the place that is right for them, and in the best of
times, 3d is pretty darn cool ... walking in the woods, being in love,
going to a tropical beach, getting a massage, you name it.

peace be with you -

- david

[David Wilcock]

from: genoness1

green apples... chew on that one ...

kyle:
green apples are sour, i dont like them ones. :-)

granny smith would be pissed that you said that ...

"without the bitter, baby, the sweet just ain't as sweet ... "

- disgruntled author character in cameron crowe's "vanilla sky"

- david

[Charlie]

> charlie wrote:
>>
>> re the usefulness of channeling.
>>
>> while i think that some channeled material can be helpful and has been, the
>> most tried and trusted method to enlightenment is via a living embodied
>> teaching presence. however, this method is a lot more challenging than going
>> to the books store and getting the material that resonates with us the most,
>> seeing as the ego is the most likely thing it will resonate, this is a gross
>> generalization but hopefully you know what i mean.
>>

"ed" wrote:

> there is also the challenge that the great majority of
> "spiritual teachers" offer a combination of good information and
> inspiration along with what seems to be inevitable: ethics, conduct,
> greed and/or control issues. this generally happens as the teacher
> becomes surrounded with adoring followers who genuinely feel that
> spreading the teachings is more important than anything else in the
> world. and much learning and growth happens as people deal with the
> choices involving good teachings and, let's say, corrupt conduct or
> organizations.


the problem does seem to be with the followers, just look at the cases of
the bhagwan rajneesh community and the da free john community. both these
masters are supposedly avatars taking over the avataric function when meher
baba died in '69. ma sheela who was put in charge of the rajneesh community
had "embezzled $50,000,000 of the community funds and had gone to join her
booty in its unnumbered accounts. vile revelation followed upon vile
revelation; it was disclosed that the community under her authority had been
run by terror; bhagwan's doctor, dentist and caretaker had been poisoned,
nearly murdered. there had been plans to poison the water-supply of a nearby
city, and to assassinate a d.a."

da free john community kind of ate itself.

http://www.lightmind.com/thevoid/daism/sfex-01.html

here is a quote from the mother book:

"thus to answer the question posed (largely) by a refractory, mass
consciousness as to how one can "identify a source of real spiritual help",
ama herself supplies the living and perfect answer. one identifies that
source truly, the more one becomes a true devotee, and thus worthy of the
peerless power of self-evident recognition. as ama's own life and spiritual
realization have definitively proven, one cannot truly recognize and
identify a real source of spiritual help until the fire burns within your
own heart so brightly as unquenchable hunger for the truth, that the
authenticity of that flame will allow only true spiritual waters ever to
slake it.

in this way only, can one know.

otherwise, as we have seen, and as ought to be quite clear by now from the
force of a very public demonstration, one cannot truly identify a source of
real spiritual help even if one happens to "choose" and become the
"follower" of, some real one whom the authentic devotee has already
identified in truth. this is only transparently obvious by this time, since
it is quite evident that the vast majority of the "followers" in the
communities of both da free john and bhagwan rajneesh, though associated
perhaps (and as if by chance) with real spiritual masters, have still failed
to "identify a source of real spiritual help" -for, had they the power to
identify such a source in truth -a power reserved for the real devotee
alone- they could not continue to behave the way they do, toward their own
master or toward anyone who might approach that master with the flame of
real love kindled in his heart. in response to the many rebuffs which she
constantly suffered at the hands of community members associated both with
da free john and bhagwan rajneesh, ama had never once complained about
"their treatment of her", but always reiterated, as though in disbelief,
"they don't know who he is!""

aloha
charlie

[Gail Sherman]

the thread about channeling is very interesting. lately i have found
it extremely difficult to read almost anything online. they are usually
channelings from one source or another including carla's. but this
is not for lack of interest. i have found it very hard to focus both my
eyes and my brain, it is almost as if i'm doped. my sister who i talk
to almost every day is saying the same thing. i am wondering if
any of you are experiencing this also. my sister says she thinks
most (legit) channelings are going silent. i noticed carla's latest
was abreviated.

oh i am practically sure god did make little green apples.

love is...
gail







from: genoness1

green apples... chew on that one ...

kyle:
green apples are sour, i dont like them ones. :-)

granny smith would be pissed that you said that ...

"without the bitter, baby, the sweet just ain't as sweet ... "

- disgruntled author character in cameron crowe's "vanilla sky"

- david



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[non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Charlie]

"david wilcock" wrote:

> dw: this statement of charlie's is not correct. very, very few wanderers
> ever become trapped enough to need to repeat a major cycle.

now there's a weight off my mind!

but seriously though, here are a couple of quotes.

============
questioner: then the sixth-density entity who has reached that point in
positive orientation may choose to become what we call a wanderer and move
back. i am wondering if this ever occurs with a negatively oriented
sixth-density entity? do any ever move back as wanderers?

ra: i am ra. once the negatively polarized entity has reached a certain
point in the wisdom density it becomes extremely unlikely that it will
choose to risk the forgetting, for this polarization is not selfless but
selfish and with wisdom realizes the jeopardy of such ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ムâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒ ã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â³wandering.ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚ â‚ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â²
occasionally a sixth-density negative becomes a wanderer in an effort to
continue to polarize towards the negative. this is extremely unusual.
=============
questioner: if a wanderer should be successfully infringed upon, shall i
say, by the orion group, what would happen to this wanderer when harvest
came?

ra: i am ra. if the wanderer entity demonstrated through action a negative
orientation towards other-selves it would be as we have said before, caught
into the planetary vibration and, when harvested, possibly repeat again the
master cycle of third density as a planetary entity. this shall be the last
full question of this session.
=============

i thought this was a very real possibility. i have acted negatively towards
other-selves as i am sure many other positively orientated wanderers have
and i would think it dangerous thinking on my behalf to think i have gratis
entry just because i believe i am a wanderer. i thought that was the whole
point why negatives don't wander because they can get trapped and loose
polarization and that pole likes its guarantees.

i don't think the idea of getting trapped down a few levels is what
motivates me but it is an idea that i have contemplated on.

ra says in regard to jesus, "the entity was absolved karmically of the
destruction of an other-self when it was in the last portion of lifetime and
spoke upon what you would call a cross saying, ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ムâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒ ã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â³father, forgive them for
they know not what they do.ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â ‚ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ã ƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â² in forgiveness lies the stoppage of the wheel
of action, or what you call karma."

how does this relate to what we are taking about?

he was only absolved when he was on the cross!! and this is a guy who was
regularly tapping intel inf.

maybe i got this wrong but this is what i see.

aloha
charlie

[David Wilcock]

from: charlie

"david wilcock" wrote:

> dw: this statement of charlie's is not correct. very, very few
wanderers
> ever become trapped enough to need to repeat a major cycle.

now there's a weight off my mind!

but seriously though, here are a couple of quotes.

dw: misconstrued quotes, as i will point out ...

============
questioner: then the sixth-density entity who has reached that point in
positive orientation may choose to become what we call a wanderer and
move
back. i am wondering if this ever occurs with a negatively oriented
sixth-density entity? do any ever move back as wanderers?

ra: i am ra. once the negatively polarized entity has reached a certain
point in the wisdom density it becomes extremely unlikely that it will
choose to risk the forgetting, for this polarization is not selfless but
selfish and with wisdom realizes the jeopardy of such ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ムâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒ ã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â³wandering.ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚ â‚ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â²

dw: jeopardy of wandering is the fact that the entity might go positive!


occasionally a sixth-density negative becomes a wanderer in an effort to
continue to polarize towards the negative. this is extremely unusual.

dw: note "extremely" unusual and how careful ra is with what words are
chosen.

=============
questioner: if a wanderer should be successfully infringed upon, shall i
say, by the orion group, what would happen to this wanderer when harvest
came?

ra: i am ra. if the wanderer entity demonstrated through action a
negative
orientation towards other-selves it would be as we have said before,
caught
into the planetary vibration and, when harvested, possibly repeat again
the
master cycle of third density as a planetary entity. this shall be the
last
full question of this session.
=============

i thought this was a very real possibility. i have acted negatively
towards
other-selves as i am sure many other positively orientated wanderers
have
and i would think it dangerous thinking on my behalf to think i have
gratis
entry just because i believe i am a wanderer.

dw: whoa... there's a hell of a difference between acting negatively
from time to time and developing a negative orientation. somehow you
have missed the other quotes that spell out how unlikely this is to ever
happen.

again, charlie, beware of scripture-hounding ... if you have any doubt
as to your ascension compatibility then friggin' change the behavior!
that simple. you have the power. it's the you-niverse, remember?

>i thought that was the whole
point why negatives don't wander because they can get trapped and loose
polarization and that pole likes its guarantees.

dw: huh? a positive wanderer is only more likely not to get trapped
because of this principle. the whole galaxy's archetypes are biased in
favor of the positive path, which has protection the negative does not
(book four).

>i don't think the idea of getting trapped down a few levels is what
motivates me but it is an idea that i have contemplated on.

ra says in regard to jesus, "the entity was absolved karmically of the
destruction of an other-self when it was in the last portion of lifetime
and
spoke upon what you would call a cross saying, ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ムâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒ ã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â³father, forgive them for
they know not what they do.ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â ‚ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ã ƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â² in forgiveness lies the stoppage of the
wheel
of action, or what you call karma."

how does this relate to what we are taking about?

he was only absolved when he was on the cross!! and this is a guy who
was
regularly tapping intel inf.

dw: dude. dude. dude! this entity killed someone and that's not easy
karma to erase. i'm assuming you haven't.

>maybe i got this wrong but this is what i see.

dw: it's only been 20 years since the law of one came through ... too
early to begin honing in on certain passages and interpreting them with
fear! at least wait till carla and i are dead before turning this all
kitty-wumpus and thereby preserving the "inner teachings" from the
"profane"...

somebody needs some green apples ... :)

- david

aloha
charlie

[Beverly Thompson]

dear asc2k friends:

it's time for me to jump on the wagon called, "channeled material," for a
little ride. whether we consciously know it or not, we are all channelers, from
our higher self, our guides, our soul mates, from those whom we're closest to in
3d, 4d, etc., our pets, the plants, from earth mother herself. but that doesn't
mean we listen! we're in the "pre-school" phase learning to take tiny little
steps, but eventually we'll all be fully telepathic and participating in "group
mind." everyone has a "voice," whether it is audibly heard or not. in the
meantime, we're learning discernment, and oh, the lessons that come with that
teaching! and we all have lessons, the learning/soul evolution never stops!
even so-called "gurus" have lessons, the bigger they are (in the light), the
harder they fall (in polarity). it's their karma when they choose to abuse
their spiritual status for material gain, and if anybody should know that
spiritual law, they should! wheeee!!! that was a fun ride!

healing love,
bev

[non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ed]

david wilcock wrote:

[snip]
>
> > don't forget that ra estimated that 15% of the world
> population would go to 4d positive in this harvest. that's about a
> billion people, way above the number of wanderers. most people here
> and many others we know will easily make the 51% positive guideline.
>
> all the best, ed
>
> dw: i have no idea where you heard 15% - but it wasn't from the law of
> one series and it wasn't from any words that came through myself as an
> instrument. the main reason why i responded here is to point out that
> this figure was never given.
>
just when i don't have a copy of vol. 1 because i loaned it
out! :( i've seen this numerous times somewhere in vol. 1, though it
doesn't seem to be in the study guide. ra said that they estimated
that in this harvest about 15% (or maybe it's 12.5%?) would ascend to
4d positive and about 2.5% to 4d negative while the rest were not
polarized enough and would continue in 3d. those percentages are
definitely there; maybe my wording of exactly what they represent is
off. maybe someone with a copy of the book can clarify this.

ed

> we don't know how many will make it. venus was a lot more harmonious
> than we are here on earth and they didn't even break 20%. nonetheless
> there is still an opportunity to have a major awakening on this planet.
> i do what i can, the other light-bringers do what they can, and we hope
> for the best, without being emotionally attached to the outcome. each
> soul will go to the place that is right for them, and in the best of
> times, 3d is pretty darn cool ... walking in the woods, being in love,
> going to a tropical beach, getting a massage, you name it.
>
> peace be with you -
>
> - david

[lealdragon]

can we still do those things in 4d? has ra said much about what
'everyday life' is in 4d? i had assumed that we would still perceive
the 'real world' as solid, just as things seem solid in dreams. since
we'll still be here on this planet, what about structures, buildings,
etc.? jobs, cars, punching timeclocks?


> ...in the best of
> times, 3d is pretty darn cool ... walking in the woods, being in love,
> going to a tropical beach, getting a massage

[lealdragon]

i have wondered about this too, which is why i posted the 'sto' thread
recently. it's also disconcerting to realize what a long ways i have
to go towards loving myself, since ra said self-love was required too,
in addition to love of others. i have treated myself really, really,
really badly! so yeah, i know what you mean about realizing that we
don't have it all neatly wrapped up. quite a humbling experience!

i don't think you have to 'be on a cross' to forgive and have that
forgiveness absolve the karma. i would hope that genuine forgiveness
would work for anyone, anytime.


>
> ... i have acted negatively towards
> other-selves as i am sure many other positively orientated wanderers
have
> and i would think it dangerous thinking on my behalf to think i have
gratis
> entry just because i believe i am a wanderer.
>
> ra says in regard to jesus, "the entity was absolved karmically of the
> destruction of an other-self when it was in the last portion of
lifetime and
> spoke upon ...a cross saying, ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ムâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒ ã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â³father, forgive them for
> they know not what they do.ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â ‚ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ã ƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â² in forgiveness lies the stoppage of the
wheel
> of action, or what you call karma."
>
> how does this relate to what we are taking about?
>
> he was only absolved when he was on the cross!!

[lealdragon]

david, i should have read the next message b4 posting my last message.
your response was great! oh, i feel soooo much better! i haven't
killed anyone, i'm just a little too hard on myself....thanks for
putting things in perspective!


> dw: whoa... there's a hell of a difference between acting negatively
> from time to time and developing a negative orientation. somehow you
> have missed the other quotes that spell out how unlikely this is to ever
> happen.
>

[Mark Stringfellow]

--- in asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postid=gcgrb-k_6kqefsbh_danb88hs4zqucq8nqjk7-5cr0tszderkw6f8bjpw-nunopmf1sgg2pe7sota_jamg), "lealdragon" <lealdragon@s...> wrote:
>
>
> david, i should have read the next message b4 posting my last message.
> your response was great! oh, i feel soooo much better! i haven't
> killed anyone, i'm just a little too hard on myself....thanks for
> putting things in perspective!
>
>
> > dw: whoa... there's a hell of a difference between acting negatively
> > from time to time and developing a negative orientation. somehow you
> > have missed the other quotes that spell out how unlikely this is
to ever
> > happen.
> >

just remember lealdragon, forgiveness goes both ways. we have to
learn to forgive ourselves as well. when we are in the constant state
of mind of self-knowledge and understanding of being in this third
dimensional existence, we must learn to always be aware of the nature
of that existence. emotions are sticky and desires are forceful. as
we learn to be gentle to ourselves, knowing we are seeking
understanding and knowledge, we become forgiving of our shortcomings
and character defects. by maintaining a state of self-forgivenss and
love for our natures, we find it much easier to forgive and love the
nature of others. understanding becomes the watchword of our lives
and through understanding we achieve acceptance and peace.

blessed be,
open2itonce

[H T]

> somebody needs some green apples ... :)
>
> - david
>


i feel i need to share some of the channeled reading i had with david
in february. it was centered on personal co-dependency issues which i
will not go into, but yet upon following this thread about "channeled
material" and some of the issues that are being discussed, i believe i
can share some of the information that i received. as carla
channeling quo'always preface any q/a, if this information does not
resonate with you please leave it behind and think nothing of it.

"you have been invader and invaded, you have been ruler and peon, as
is the case for most other wanderers, who journey into 3rd density
using this plane as a vehicle of awakening, arising through many
layers of guilt and self-condemnation to once again behold the devine
presence and taste it's essence as the nectar of ambrosia that drips
from the fruit of paradise - in the tree of the knowledge of good and
evil, for it is indeed time to wake up to "bite the apple" and to
learn yourself, to know not just the good sunny aspects of the garden
of eden but also the serpent who works his way through the tall
grasses undetected up until now. when you bite in and make that
commitment to this so-called forbidden fruit, then you begin to
realize that you were naked - naked in your ignorance about some of
the ways in which you have been limiting yourself. ..."

"again and again we return to the central premise in which you taste
the waters of the holy grail by reaching that level of christ
consciousness within yourself fulfilling the devine promise that you
came here to do. by awakening into the present moment, awakening into
the "pure consciousness", you have performed an action that supersedes
all the good works combined, the one known as david had said. for
this action you have become a radiant beacon of light, sheparding
those others into a more cohenent form of consciousness without ever
having to see them face to face. ..."

since i believe we all are a microcosm of the universe, therefore,
when we clean up our act, "awaken into the present moment", we are
radiating, emitting a frequency of light or energy that affects our
environment. therefore, we may or may not speak to other-selves, but
the effect could be felt by those who are inclined to be affected.
when those who are interested, ask me, how, what or why i am the way i
am, i direct them to david's site or the law of one's site. i do not
go into a lot of detail of interpretation, because how i may see
things may not be the same as another's belief. i try not to get into
a lot of drama, manipulation or control (very hard for a scorpio), but
i am learning with small baby steps how to be just me. i share this
portion of my reading because i thought this information might be
interesting to my other-selves.

may all beings be loved,
namaste,
helen

p.s. david, i'll see you at the living expo here in s.f. woohoo!

[lealdragon]

yes, that is precisely why i found it disconcerting to realize how
difficult it had been for me to forgive myself. i usually find it much
easier to forgive others than to forgive myself.


> just remember lealdragon, forgiveness goes both ways. we have to
> learn to forgive ourselves as well... ...as
> we learn to be gentle to ourselves, knowing we are seeking
> understanding and knowledge, we become forgiving of our shortcomings
> and character defects. by maintaining a state of self-forgivenss and
> love for our natures, we find it much easier to forgive and love the
> nature of others.

[Unknown]

hi ed,

i never saw any percentage in the loo book 1. they said something
about percentages of 3d, 4d civilisations etc in the universe and how
much % sto is needed to make 4d etc.. but i never saw the 15% thing.
there were some discussions a few months ago inhere about percentages
of harvest but never saw a quote from the ra material. anywayz all the
sessions are online so if you want to check:
http://wiki.lawof1.org/index.php?title=main_page

greets
Unknown

--- in asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postid=qm3zgjjejsx7pqhdtbfsjq2sokgp6c72oobpi8 gwq_z5kan_ywlvxp3fdmzzn6mvkgoow2nigr5v12jwmfmd), ed <metasyn@c...> wrote:
> just when i don't have a copy of vol. 1 because i loaned it
> out! :( i've seen this numerous times somewhere in vol. 1, though it
> doesn't seem to be in the study guide. ra said that they estimated
> that in this harvest about 15% (or maybe it's 12.5%?) would ascend to
> 4d positive and about 2.5% to 4d negative while the rest were not
> polarized enough and would continue in 3d. those percentages are
> definitely there; maybe my wording of exactly what they represent is
> off. maybe someone with a copy of the book can clarify this.
>
> ed

[Charlie]

"lealdragon" wrote:

>
>
>
> can we still do those things in 4d? has ra said much about what
> 'everyday life' is in 4d? i had assumed that we would still perceive
> the 'real world' as solid, just as things seem solid in dreams. since
> we'll still be here on this planet, what about structures, buildings,
> etc.? jobs, cars, punching timeclocks?


ra doesn't say much but check out page eighteen of the book t-bird vs the
flying saucers that is on that idisk for an interesting description.

here is a small excerpt:

the world of 4th density is an astral webbing through which etheric and
physical components organize as the sensate-olfactory extremity of the
total, incarnative vehicle or body-complex; it is therefore similar to
what's experienced through the "inner planes" when 3rd-density consciousness
dissociates in its astral body. it is a medium surcharged with the
symbolizing "numen" of what we usually associate with the dream state. yet
to the quickened spark of self-reflective awareness struck in that continuum
it is a world of perceptual properties as consistent in the laws of their
behaviors as the perceptions of the material dimension are consistent with
respect to their own. whereas however the "astral" is commonly experienced
by 3rd-density consciousness through nocturnal dissociation of the nested
inner vehicles as a disembodied state, 4th density represents the
coaxial extension of a focalized and locked-in, incarnative consciousness
sweeping the span of available conscious states from the psycho-symbolic to
the electron circuit of the condensed tactile value we identify as
"physical".

thus 4th density beings are astral-psychic entities in their optimum degree
of awareness, with a physical-complex (electronic) component organized and
extended through the patterning alignments of astro-etheric cohesion. the
biopsychic energy which constitutes the "negotiable currency" of 4th density
beings, is their natural nutriment. it is not just the "fleshy leaf upon
which they sup, but the specific value or psychic charge of its enveloping
astro-etheric atmosphere. positive 4th density beings achieve greater
polarization through aiding the maintenance and peaceful, harmonious
furtherance of energy-rich spheres such as that of earth where bio-psychic
entity of a less advanced stage nonetheless generates tremendous
"loosh" (in the terminology of robert monroe) through the surcharged
atmospheres of a self-reflective?and therefore abundantly productive?degree
of consciousness and light. the peaceful promotion of a unitive continuity
and energy-intensive "advance" of such globes, planes and worlds as the
physical we know, serves 4th density positive polarization creating as it
does a general spread of the integral "net" of available, adequately
coherent nodes in the universal medium functionally coextensive with
social/memory/complex "bodies".


aloha
charlie

[Charlie]

i have tried a couple of times to get this post out and it has been rejected
so this is the stripped down version with none of the quotes from
l&l/david/ra.

yeah i misconstrued that, i took "demonstrated through action", as through
an action, such as the single action of jc killing someone, not through a
continued series of actions.

ra always seems to choose carefully that is why i like it so much because it
is precise. i read it as, it is extremely unusual that a negative will
wander not because it will go positive but that it will loose polarity.

after reading the bit on jc, it would seem that current behavior isn't the
only thing that determines harvestability and that karmic deposits can stop
the leaving of the planet. what if jc was run over by a camel and he never
had the chance to utter these words, what then? would he then be chained to
the wheel of samsara or can one remove these karmic deposits in the
"afterlife", it would seem from books such as the war in heaven or robert
monroe's books that on can conceivably work on karma or accumulate it in
this astral world.

we don't know what happened to this "angelically positive entity" [tesla]
but like many wanderers it became "extremely distorted" toward other-selves,
i can only think that this meant they demonstrate through action a negative
orientation towards other-selves, it is easily done so it would seem. it
would seem to me that the reason why wanderers incarnate mostly at this time
in history, the end of a major cycle, is because it is easier to ascend or
ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ムâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒ ã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â³get outãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â ‚ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚âƒãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ã ƒâƒã‚âƒãƒâ‚ã‚â‚ãƒâƒã‚â‚ãƒâ‚ã‚â² seeing as we have a real dearth of beings that have ascended
during the cycles of time.

i haven't killed a human but my roommate has killed a few people and i care
about him and "his" soul journey. i have killed animals as a youth, fox
hunting (you know tally ho), shooting rabbits and shooting small innocent
birds for something to do as a youngster but i guess these are the perils of
incarnating on a farm. now i feel bad killing a roach.

i don't know what the different levels of karma are or how to measure a
quanta of karma, i always thought karma was karma (deposits on the auric
egg) but in the account of jc it was an accident not intentional; i thought
this would be vastly different from premeditated murder, especially after
reading the bit about a. lincoln and how he did not accumulate karma for the
civil war deaths.

i am sure these actions amongst others have created karma and i have had
many opportunities to alleviate this karma and could well have done but i
don't know.

i think the secret of establishing a perfect balance in the accounts of all
such karmic deposits, and thus canceling them of any impelling effect, does
not lie in the piecemeal rectification of every biasing element of identity;
rather, it lies in the landmark conversion of the force of attention from
primary identification with the field of the life-patterns, to primary
recognition of its being and function as instrumental expression of eternal,
absolute void-nature. in this way it diffuses through its own global
presence, relaxing the directive and vectoral force of its volitional focus
so as to rest coincident with the self-cancelling juncture of its own
essential void-point. the locus of attention, is then submitted to its own
real nature and spirit as the undefined infinite, located nowhere, present
everywhere.

as i am sure you have noticed i am trying to understand this process and
have asked a few questions regarding this since joining the group and it
should also be clear that this is not waiting for ascension sometime in the
future but trying to function as a whole now.

thanks for your time on helping me understand this.

aloha
charlie

[lealdragon]

> ... i read it as, it is extremely unusual that a negative will
> wander not because it will go positive but that it will loose polarity.
>

i would think that negative entities do not have the same incentive to
be wanderers as positive entities, since positive entities want to
help others and negatives only want to use them or control them. so
the 'danger' to them might be that they'd lose polarity by developing
a bit of compassion. and, since they don't care about others, why
should they care about coming back to 3d to help others?


> after reading the bit on jc, it would seem that current behavior
isn't the
> only thing that determines harvestability and that karmic deposits
can stop
> the leaving of the planet. what if jc was run over by a camel and he
never
> had the chance to utter these words, what then?


it sounds like you are thinking of karma like a bank account, with
deposits and withdrawals. i think of it more as just a learning
process - often the best way to learn not to kill another is by losing
one's own life or that of a loved one, for example. but once the
entity is remorseful and learns his/her lesson of love and
forgiveness, my understanding is that the lesson is learned therefore
the karma is neutralized.ra said that all of humanity could become
harmonious in an instant - 'not probable, but always possible'. in
such an event, of course not all the karma would have been alleviated
by the bank account method, but maybe by the leap in consciousness,
karma is also alleviated. jc obviously had a leap in consciousness on
the cross, as it must have been hard to forgive those who had tortured
and killed him. it was very powerful.

> but like many wanderers it became "extremely distorted" toward
other-selves,
> i can only think that this meant they demonstrate through action a
negative
> orientation towards other-selves,


i thought ra meant 'extremely biased' or just leaning far in that
direction, the direction of service to other-selves. remember the word
distortion as used by ra does not mean the negative connotation, as in
messed up or impure - it's more of a variation.

> ... i always thought karma was karma (deposits on the auric
> egg) but in the account of jc it was an accident not intentional; i
thought
> this would be vastly different from premeditated murder, especially
after
> reading the bit about a. lincoln and how he did not accumulate karma
for the
> civil war deaths.


i would think that whether something is consciously intentional or not
would make a huge difference in the degree of karma. jesus' error was
not that of killing someone - because he did not intend to kill that
person. his error was in using the power he had in a state of rage,
with no regard for the consequences. his lesson was to use this power
for good, to channel it wisely and not just let it flare up like it
had that time.

[mark stringfellow]

charlie,

since i am new to this group i don't know if what i
will share will corrospond to what is being shared
within the group.

as an evolutionary astrologer i deal from the point of
view of karma/dharma. i don't know how much you know
about astrology so i'll have to hope you have some
basic knowledge. however, i will be coming from a
perspective that is only now beginning to manifest
itself to me, so, this may be coming through me as
well as from me.

as souls travel and manifest in many solar structures
throughout the universe it attaches itself with the
activities both positive and negative of whatever
manifestation it assumed within those solar
structures.
this is the universal law of karma/dharma. since the
only way to manifest without distortion is to manifest
as the one itself, there is always patterns of
distortion as the soul passes through the various
solar structures in it's journey to incarnate. as we
have learned through ra and david, this solar
structure we inhabit is changing it's distortion field
and becoming 4th dimensional. however, for our
purposes here, we will be discussing 3rd dimensional
distortion as it relates to incarnations on earth.

first of all, let me characterize my knowledge of this
subject with some personal information. after a great
deal of personal research using my own chart as my
map, i have discovered my own personal theme for
incarnation at this time. around the ring of houses
are points that are defined by the porportional degree
displacement the house is ruled by within the sign.
each sign has a 30 degree displacement divided by
three into distinct vibrational qualities of
expression within that particular sign. these are
called the decantes and speak to the nature of the
expression at any given degree placement the soul uses
to express the necessary frequency vibration needed to
fulfill the particular soul-purpose in any particular
incarnation. needless to say, if a single planet,
point or angle finds itself in the beginning degrees
of a sign, that energy is in an early manifestation of
that sign's vibrational quality. if at the end
degrees of a sign, the summing up and fulfillment of
karmic/dharmic debt or reward.

the reason i have such a familiarity with this
information is that my overall theme is one of summing
up and fulfillment. all my houses are either at 28
degrees or 29. all the planets and angles involved
with my pattern signature are within the degrees of
summation. after a great deal of resistance during my
youth of trying to avoid the necessary karmic
summation i am here to fulfill, i have since resigned
myself to face my debts with a spirit of joy and
gratitude for the opportunity to free myself of the
need to return to 3rd dimensional incarnation. will i
be successful in my work? god knows. but the work is
being done. as each soul enters my sphere of
experience that has a strong vibrational resonance
with myself, i endeavor to discover what the karmic
relationship is and what is needed to either remove
negative karma with that soul or fulfill positive
dharma to release that positive love force into the
universe. much of this discovery is done in an
intuitive nature. let's face it, many in 3rd
dimensional manifestation aren't open to this
discussion. this requires a great deal of
self-knowledge. in order to focus in on what the
intuitional knowledge is and what the nature of the
connection is with soul that has been presented within
my experience. this requires an opening of the heart
center so that the ability to sense symbolic
representations of the karmic tie with a soul can
manifest within. this can take the form of image
projections contained within the soul memory of the
entities involved or dreamstate manifestations of
prior contact and what was played out between them.
you need to trust this one thing, however, the reason
for the manifestation of an entity within one's
present experience is for this work to be done. we
must trust the creator and open ourselves to what is
trying to be taught.

i say all of this in order for you to gain an
understanding of the nature of what it is to do karmic
work in a conscious way. to slow the thinking in 3rd
dimensional existence so as to see and sense the
wonder of opportunity one has to honor this work the
creator has given us to do. as we become even
remotely enlightened to the nature of existence, we
must then take the time to ponder the potential damage
and good we have done while we stumbled in the
darkness of the ignorance of our true natures and the
link with the infinite source of that existence. this
is the work i do and knowledge i try to share with
others at this great cyclic time. what is the nature
of the soul's distortion pattern within this solar
structure? how is that pattern distortion applied and
distorted upon the earth sphere? and what is the
overall theme being used by that soul to come to terms
with the nature of 3rd dimensional existence as it
pertains to the earth herself?

in working with karmic models, just remember, to be
humble, accepting, forgiving of self and the other,
open to resolution of the karma and don't forget to
dance with joy if the dharmic resolution is allowed
between the entities involved. if it is not, then
allow for what your part is in the nature of that
karmic tie, vow to not repeat it(if negative), or
continue it(if positive)in a spirit of love,
understanding and joy at having found it again.
release it to the creator and offer a blessing for
having the opportunity to rectify or fulfill the debt.
this creates a new string in the tapestry of creation
that becomes stronger, more colorful and joyful in the
mind of our keeper.

blessed be,
mark
open2itonce

--- charlie <charlie@... (/group/asc2k/post?postid=nmvdw56g3cmkcewcrbyq3-hkkj1q-hk2iagveas-e7w-kkefyyqjf3rzrccmumplbro_dfh5t__12wgfmqu)> wrote:
it would seem that current behavior isn't the
> only thing that determines harvestability and that
> karmic deposits can stop the leaving of the planet.
> i don't know what the different levels of karma are
> or how to measure a quanta of karma, i always thought karma was karma
(deposits on the auric egg)
i think the secret of establishing a perfect balance
> in the accounts of all such karmic deposits, and thus canceling them of any
impelling effect, lies in the landmark conversion of the
> force of attention from primary identification with the field of the
life-patterns, to primary recognition of its being and function as instrumental
expression of eternal, absolute void-nature. aloha
> charlie

[Charlie]

"mark stringfellow" wrote:

> in working with karmic models, just remember, to be
> humble, accepting, forgiving of self and the other,
> open to resolution of the karma and don't forget to
> dance with joy if the dharmic resolution is allowed
> between the entities involved. if it is not, then
> allow for what your part is in the nature of that
> karmic tie, vow to not repeat it(if negative), or
> continue it(if positive)in a spirit of love,
> understanding and joy at having found it again.
> release it to the creator and offer a blessing for
> having the opportunity to rectify or fulfill the debt.
> this creates a new string in the tapestry of creation
> that becomes stronger, more colorful and joyful in the
> mind of our keeper.
>
> blessed be,
> mark

mark,

thank you for your well thought out reply. i love the tapestry analogy.

i am curious how the information in book four of the ra material aided you
in your practice as an astrologer. my studies have taken me the route of
qaballah as opposed to astrology or tarot and not to any great extent i
hasten to add and i always found book four the most challenging to
incorporate into practice.

this question is open to anyone, how have you been able to incorporate this
information regarding archetypes into your daily practice?

aloha
charlie

[lealdragon]

most definitely true! while i have read and re-read books i -iii & v,
i have picked up book iv a number of times but never got thru all of
it. i guess it's over my head. heavy stuff!

>i always found book four the most challenging