Harvest

[Tarzan]

Leslie, et al.,

I started to respond to Leslie's excellent summary about
Gaia's human history, but I failed to save it when I turned
off my 'puter, so here goes.

What I'd quibble about is the idea that the idea of the
coming harvest being poor this time around in this third
harvest--third time's the charm, yes? Although the harvest
was zip in the first one; 150 or so in the second one, I
think that this time around, there's gonna be millions of
humans who would be harvestable.

Firstly, there's the now 100 million Wanderers on Gaia, most
of whom likely are harvestable...unless the harvest does not
include them, given their soul-home of higher densities
prior to each one's incarnation on Gaia. No, I don't see
how the harvest would NOT include the Wanderers, given the
risk of regression taken on by each 4th-5th-6th-density
Wanderer when each one takes on the veil of illusion when
incarnating on 3-D Gaia. The risk of regression
automatically includes the opportunity of advancement by
participating in the harvest, yes? Given the logic of this
priori, I think that the Wanderers will participate in the
harvest, should they wish to.

Kinda like a 6th grader in school going back to 3rd grade to
assist fellow recalcitrant and quarrelsome 3rd graders to
learn the lessons in order to make the grade in their leap
to 4th grade. If a 6th grader chooses to take the risk of
taking a 3rd-grade course all over again--risk of failure of
passing that grade being inherent in this 6th-grader's
choice to drop back down to 3rd grade--then it follows that
the 6th grader stands to reap the rewards of passing the 3rd
grade again, as well as gaining the good karma of assisting
others in the tumultuous 3rd grade.

So just the Wanderers alone makes for a hugely successful
harvest this time around.

Beyond the Wanderers, there's the borderline humans who are
on the verge of making the grade. Given that the "Cultural
Creative" population in the western world being in the 25%
category in population terms and, given the population of
the western world being at 1.2 billion, there's a population
of 300 million people who are in the Cultural Creative
category. http://www.cultural-creatives.net/ The Cultural
Creative population is HUGE and increasing everyday with the
"Moderns" switching over to the Cultural Creative category,
now that the hydra-headed monster of modernism is so
apparent to many; the "Traditionals" are dying off very
rapidly, further accelerating the % change in pop categories
amongst the Traditionals, Moderns and Cultural Creatives.

I am making a presumption that the Wanderers are somewhat
evenly distributed throughout the world, though I suspect
that they may be weighted towards the western world, where
most of the Cultural Creatives are and where the Wanderers
can have their greatest influence. So I'll use the number
of 30 million as a number of Wanderers who are incarnated in
the western world where they could have positive influences
upon the members of the Cultural Creative world who may be
on the verge of qualifying for 4-D. Like attracts like, you
know, so it's a safe bet that the Wanderers and Cultural
Creatives mingle a bit. I don't see any tie-dye dudes
mingling with crew-cut-kill-em-all military dudes, you know?
Although there surely are Wanderers who work within the
military-industrial complex (I know of one who is a member
of this list), they tend to keep quiet about their true
nature in order to preserve their jobs--can't blame 'em for
that. A "dude" is both sexes, btw.

So take away 30 million Wanderers from the 300 million
Cultural Creatives in the western world, there's 270 million
people who possibly may be anywhere from far away to close
to qualification for 4-D. It's safe to say that several
million--7 million?-- out of this group alone can qualify
for 4-D.

Then there's the rest of the human population where the rest
of the Wanderers may be interspersed amongst those
populations, plus the numbers of people who are close to
qualifying for 4-D. Several millions from here, very
easily. This is on a basis of a world pop of 7.7
billion--the current figures are gross underreporting of the
true numbers of humans on Gaia.

So given all of that, it is my hunch that this time around
is gonna be a HUGE party when the crossover to 4-D is fully
complete. Better stock up on the champange, bud, et al.,
and get ready to have an awesome mulitidimensional blow-out
party!

Party time...almost,

~Seth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Lesley Schultz]

Hello Seth:

Sure, if you count the Wanderers, it will be a real
blow-out in terms of harvested entities. But I don't
think we can count Wanderers, because they're not
first-timers in the Ascension process. When a class
in elementary school graduates, do the teachers get
promoted too? No. While it's true that Wanderers put
aside their extra-dimesional mind/body/spirit
capabilites and become completely 3rd density, it
isn't like their basic vibrations have completely been
masked or their native biases and natures wiped out.
They don't have to come up the ranks all over again
[i.e. if a 6th density Wanderer incarnates in earth as
a 3rd density entity, to help with the ascension
process, it is not necessary for the Wanderer to work
their way back up again through 4th, 5th and backup to
the level they were at at 6th density. A Wanderer may
commit to serve in 3D for, say, 10 generations or
10,000 years and once that period is over, pass out of
incarnation and return to their native density-
provided they have not been karmically entangled.]

Those of Ra have said that the harvest would be small,
the vast majority of Terrans will be repeating 3rd
density. A big harvest [like that from Venus, Ra's
homeworld], they said, was a whopping 20%. And they
were much less belligerent than Terrans. I think we
may be lucky to have a harvest of perhaps 500,000,
subtracting the Wanderers, which are about 1.6% of the
population.

You're right, that's still a pretty good party.

Break out the bubbly and the pretzels, peanuts and
canapes.....

Blessings,
~lesley




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[blackboxamir]

[i.e. if a 6th density Wanderer incarnates in earth as
> a 3rd density entity, to help with the ascension
> process, it is not necessary for the Wanderer to work
> their way back up again through 4th, 5th and backup to
> the level they were at at 6th density. A Wanderer may
> commit to serve in 3D for, say, 10 generations or
> 10,000 years and once that period is over, pass out of
> incarnation and return to their native density-
> provided they have not been karmically entangled.]

Amir: Hi Lesley,

I believe you are incorrect in the above.

With the law of confusion, how is it you believe that it is even
possible for a being to NOT become "karmically entangled"?

When you play in the dirt, you get dirty. There is no question in my
mind about this. Once a supposed Wanderer retro-incarnates, they
are "back in school", meaning they must work their way back up to
where they were, or so I think.

This is not to negate that the rate to progression may be
significantly increased compared to the original progression. The
vibration and soul-development is probably intrinsically existent,
like for example: A body-builder stops working-out for 6 months. He
then starts back up and his rate at reclaiming his prized body-mass
is far easier and with less obstacles than originally necessary. This
is because of "cellular-memory". The same thing can probably be
denoted to Wanderers.

Ascension may be easier for a Wanderer, but when they go back to
grade 3, they have to complete the consecutive grades successively
just like the rest of 3D-humanity.

Warm Regards,

[Kay Dayss]

Those of Ra also said to take their musings with a grain of salt. When they
looked at us several decades ago, that NOW may have only had 500,000 plus
the Wanderers, but you know 90% of the work gets done at the last minute,
which is why last minutes are so useful.

Wanderers are free to choose whether to stay here in 4D or leave. I can't
speak for other Wanderers, but I know that I committed to stay here at least
until the conclusion of this physical incarnation to help with the
transition. I'm basically working at living in 4D now so that I can help
build structures like a gifting economy and the new "cell car" that runs on
a combo of free-energy device and my energy system. My work won't be over
after Gaia shifts; it will be just beginning.

My intuitive sense of the current NOW is that there are five or ten million
or so of us 4D humans who will populate the 4D world, and I'm not willing to
exclude the Wanderers. I think a majority of us will want to stay and help.
8-) Of course, I could be wrong. The homesickness is hard, but the THRILL
of this ride is really amazing. 8-)

Remember too, all the kids who have been born in the last 30 years as dual
density beings. There are also a lot of people on 3D Gaia right now who have
already made the transition to 4D+3D dual density.

As we get closer to Gaia's shift, I'm getting more and more excited because
once the shift is complete, life will be both easier and exciting because we
will all be surrounded by those of like or similar mind and will so much
more easily be able to form our complexes and be ourselves! So in a way, it
will be like going home a little ways to get back to a world where
"telepathy" and travel and true communion are normal.

Yummmmmm, warm and soft and BRIGHT!

Blessings,
Kay


----- Original Message -----
From: "Lesley Schultz" <msthoth@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=skQizGYSVC0eSGvuQblPek2-eQpJXZQUf9A_AGmceuFz9EKhX64ZQvwrCjKU6p4aFMJSm3n2I9 O1)>


<snip> A Wanderer may
commit to serve in 3D for, say, 10 generations or
10,000 years and once that period is over, pass out of
incarnation and return to their native density-
provided they have not been karmically entangled.]

Those of Ra have said that the harvest would be small,
the vast majority of Terrans will be repeating 3rd
density. A big harvest [like that from Venus, Ra's
homeworld], they said, was a whopping 20%. And they
were much less belligerent than Terrans. I think we
may be lucky to have a harvest of perhaps 500,000,
subtracting the Wanderers, which are about 1.6% of the
population.

You're right, that's still a pretty good party.

Break out the bubbly and the pretzels, peanuts and
canapes.....

Blessings,
~lesley




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[Tarzan]

>From: Lesley Schultz [mailto:msthoth@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=M8zs5nm5ZoS15OL2_TmQy5CKFKbrzDFwxWOqN0 rX66xgQbM56Gg_GpApirc13HHxLFRubwdqoYU)]

>But I don't
>think we can count Wanderers, because they're not
>first-timers in the Ascension process.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~
Leslie et al.,

Ah, thank you for popping my people bubble there... I had this feeling that
there was a big hole in my thinking, so this is helpful. If I had followed my
grade-leaping argument a little deeper, I would have found out that hole,
sheesh.

I wonder how many Wanderers get stuck with karmic entanglements? A good-sized,
double-digit percentage, I bet. What happens if a Wanderer does not get any
karmic entanglements, yet had regressed a bit to below the 51% STO requirement?
I would suppose that mainly the stronger, more mature latter-stage 4-D beings
and above could choose to reincarnate back into 3-D, rather than the early-stage
4-D beings who may get temporarily stuck in 3-D by slight regressions.

There's gotta be more than a half-million harvestable people on Terra at this
point in time, but, whatever the number, it's a historic moment in this entire
Logos.

Speaking of harvesting, I just now harvested a big bowlful of blackberries.
They made the grade in terms of delicousness. I threw in some coco cream
(fresh-made, raw), raw organic cow's cream, raw organic, unsalted butter,
unheated honey and, my oh my, good! It's great for cleansing out the intestinal
system, especially the small intestine.

~Seth

[Stephen Tyman]

Hello Amir! You have said:
"Once a supposed Wanderer retro-incarnates, they
are "back in school", meaning they must work their way back up to
where they were, or so I think."


But I am with Leslie on this one, for what that's worth. I think wanderers
sign up for specific veiled stints, and then return to their home density. Now
it may happen, as you say, that they become entangled. Then all bets are off.
I do fear the danger of entanglement here is fairly large, since this is such a
dysfunctional scenario. It is very hard for many to let their deeper instincts
kick in, when there is so much 'noise'. This is a highly unusual planet with an
unusually strong record of past violence both on an off planet, and a volatile
mixture to boot. I am personally acquainted with a good many people I take to
be wanderers who are being pulled in several directions at once. They are very
disoriented. Sometimes I think we have come a bridge too far. Lo/Li Stephen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[blackboxamir]

> But I am with Leslie on this one, for what that's worth. I
think wanderers sign up for specific veiled stints, and then return
to their home density. Now it may happen, as you say, that they
become entangled. Then all bets are off. I do fear the danger of
entanglement here is fairly large, since this is such a dysfunctional
scenario. It is very hard for many to let their deeper instincts
kick in, when there is so much 'noise'. This is a highly unusual
planet with an unusually strong record of past violence both on an
off planet, and a volatile mixture to boot. I am personally
acquainted with a good many people I take to be wanderers who are
being pulled in several directions at once. They are very
disoriented. Sometimes I think we have come a bridge too far. Lo/Li
Stephen
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Amir: Hi Stephen,

Under our sub-logoi, is not the 'law of confusion' highly relevant to
this subject?

I believe for a being to incarnate backwards, a sacrifice is present.
This sacrifice consists of the 'being' subjecting itself under the
laws of the chosen realm. For example, on Earth there would be risks,
specifically two: (1) Never remember the "mission" and (2) Might
become so entangled karmically that reversal of polarity occurs.

According to RA, Earth is designated as a place where the majority of
the populace are indifferent/neutral in polarity, the second majority
is of negative polarity, and the minority is of positive polarity.
Negative beings seek out control through externalities. They do this
by manipulation of people to attain control of environment. Then the
environment is structured and a hierarchy is established. The
majority being of neutral polarity, entwine themselves into the
pyramidal-structure without revulsion, and the only ones to resist
the system are of the minority. This is of course more complicated
when we add in the "hyperdimensional" factors.

So the difference of opinion is that either (a) Wanderers sacrifice
by jumping back a few grades with "cellular-memory" present for
potential accelerative progress VS (b) Wanderers incarnate for a
specific mission with the luxury of being able to bungy-jump right
back to their home-density when the job is done.

I believe the latter is wishful-thinking. Maybe the misunderstanding
arises from "time" not being calculated into these scenarios. For
example, when one ascends to 4th Density, time is no longer attached
to our environment, but is a concept, a law, which only holds reign
upon densities 1-3. Like a fence for lower-density sheep. So when
those whom are harvestable ascend, they are no longer under the
jurisdiction of time, correct? If so, then this implies that at this
one instance (from a 3D-standpoint) they have already graduated from
4th to 5th, 5th to 6th, 6th to 7th, one with all, and emerged into
yet another octave. This only pertains to a 3D-perspective, and
the "effort" and "work" necessary for graduation is not being put
into account -- but I believe you see what I mean. So if I am
correct, and theory-"a" is properly accurate, then the sacrifice
isn't as much of a burden to a Wanderer as one would suppose.(ie.
also due to "cellular memory")

My understanding of this comes primarily from my readings of the
Cassiopaean transcripts which very much complement my readings of RA.

Another element to add to this subject is of the Gurdjieffian system
and his very helpful teachings in regards to how dirty the "human-
mechanism" becomes psychologically through culture, education,
family, etc. I cannot imagine a single Wanderer (Tibetan monks
maybe?) out of the millions on Earth to be able to be born and not
become "karmically entangled". It just sounds very unrealistic and
that of wishful-thinking to humour such an idea.

[brandon knodel]

Both points are rather valid however i believe that the judgement of the
particular wonderer is up to the guardians so called, not us. I am sure there
are different "programs" an entity could sign up for with different "benefits"
to it. I know thats a tacky analogy, but I believe a valid one. Like Ra says
each entity is different due the laws of free will but still one( or somethingl
ike that) Not trying to imply seperation.....but among our plain its certainly
the case.

Love and Light- Brandon

blackboxamir <blackbox@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=cvOU0aMNfbParuINNhO2nOHTWAasIMe6kJe0ye nSsst3hAMaXSVQnpV78LZLwbeFZR7ZHeMKcHwINA)> wrote:
[i.e. if a 6th density Wanderer incarnates in earth as
> a 3rd density entity, to help with the ascension
> process, it is not necessary for the Wanderer to work
> their way back up again through 4th, 5th and backup to
> the level they were at at 6th density. A Wanderer may
> commit to serve in 3D for, say, 10 generations or
> 10,000 years and once that period is over, pass out of
> incarnation and return to their native density-
> provided they have not been karmically entangled.]

Amir: Hi Lesley,
I believe you are incorrect in the above.
With the law of confusion, how is it you believe that it is even
possible for a being to NOT become "karmically entangled"?

When you play in the dirt, you get dirty. There is no question in my
mind about this. Once a supposed Wanderer retro-incarnates, they
are "back in school", meaning they must work their way back up to
where they were, or so I think.

This is not to negate that the rate to progression may be
significantly increased compared to the original progression.
Ascension may be easier for a Wanderer, but when they go back to
grade 3, they have to complete the consecutive grades successively
just like the rest of 3D-humanity.Warm Regards,

[Beverly Thompson]

Dear asc2k friends:

Kay wrote: Those of Ra also said to take their musings with a grain of salt.
When they looked at us several decades ago, that NOW may have only had 500,000
plus the Wanderers, but you know 90% of the work gets done at the last minute,
which is why last minutes are so useful.

Bev: I would also like to point out that we have had some pretty powerful
astrological/metaphysical/cosmic/magical events that have taken place since the
early 80's when the RA material was channeled. The Harmonic Convergence in 1987
and the Harmonic Concordance in 2003 just to name a couple biggies! I have no
doubt these have changed the numbers of people that RA predicted that would be
harvested. Oh, and aren't we a society that likes to have a big turn around at
the end of the drama for a positive outcome? We love a cliff hanger!
Healing Love,
Bev

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Beverly Thompson]

Dear asc2k friends:

I am adding to the following discussion re: harvest "Amir: Hi Stephen,Under our
sub-logoi, is not the 'law of confusion' highly relevant to his subject? I
believe for a being to incarnate backwards, a sacrifice is present. This
sacrifice consists of the 'being' subjecting itself under the laws of the chosen
realm. For example, on Earth there would be risks, specifically two: (1) Never
remember the "mission" and (2) Might become so entangled karmically that
reversal of polarity occurs.

Bev: There is considerable insight into this discussion in Book IV, Lesson #89,
p. 129

QUESTIONER: Were some of Ra's population negatively harvested at the end of
Ra's third density?
RA: I am Ra. We had no negative harvest as such although there had been two
entities which had harvested themselves during the third density in the negative
or service-to-self path.

Bev: This brings up an important consideration that a harvest may occur DURING a
dimensional experience rather than wait until the event known as "harvest"
occurs. The discussion about the two entities continues on p. 130

QUESTIONER: What was the origin of the two entities of which you speak?
RA: I am Ra. These entities were Wanderers from early positive fifth density.

Bev: Again an important point to consider that the two entities who
transitioned during 3D were Wanderers from 5D. Continue on p. 131

QUESTIONER: And though they had already evolved through a positive fourth
density they, shall we say, switched polarity in the reincarnating in third
density. Is this correct?
RA: This is correct.

QUESTIONER: What was the reason for the wandering of these two Wanderers, and
were they male and female?
RA: I am Ra. All Wanderers come to be of assistance in serving the creator,
each in its own way. The Wanderers of which we have been speaking were indeed
incarnated male and female as this is by far the most efficient system of
partnership.

Bev: This is juicy stuff, the idea that Wanderers incarnate in pairs of male
and female to be more effective in their "mission." Continue on p. 132

QUESTIONER: What was the attitude of these two entities after they graduated
into fourth-ensity negative and, the veil being removed, realized that they had
switched polarities?
RA: I am Ra. They worked with the fourth-density negative for some period
until, within this framework, the previously learned patterns of the self had
been recaptured and the polarity was, with great effort, reversed. There was a
great deal of fourth-density positive work then to be retraced.

Healing Love (hugs and kisses, too!),
Bev






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Michael Papa]

Mike says: I asked this same question below of David during my recent
reading. David felt that it is not necessarily so that we "do time" in all
of the other densities to return to our home group social memory complex
where an entity originally came from. That, we can in fact return directly
to our home social complex from 3D. I assume there are certain
requirements, but awake wanderers should be able to jump or skip home. I am
a wanderer who is throurghly enjoying my "last stint" here. What a life...I
can however see me choosing to go through 4 5 6 etc for the "experience".
Pretty much nothing that happens to me anymore is a bother. Then again I
am pretty protected and nothing that bad has happened, everyday is a gift.
I only really hurt when something happens to others like my family or kids.
Even so I broke out in shingles last week, but the dr. said it is "the
mildest case she has ever seen" (mild discomfort no fever no major
complications) so once again I see the protection working around me. In
another 2 weeks I will be "immune" for at least another 40 years! Let's see
that would put me @ about 95.

Live, Love, Be, Enjoy

Mike

>
>[i.e. if a 6th density Wanderer incarnates in earth as
> > a 3rd density entity, to help with the ascension
> > process, it is not necessary for the Wanderer to work
> > their way back up again through 4th, 5th and backup to
> > the level they were at at 6th density. A Wanderer may
> > commit to serve in 3D for, say, 10 generations or
> > 10,000 years and once that period is over, pass out of
> > incarnation and return to their native density-
> > provided they have not been karmically entangled.]

>denoted to Wanderers.
>
>Ascension may be easier for a Wanderer, but when they go back to
>grade 3, they have to complete the consecutive grades successively
>just like the rest of 3D-humanity.
>
>Warm Regards,
>
>

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[Lesley Schultz]

Hello Amir, L/L & Peace to All:

--- blackboxamir <blackbox@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=x-nvX8pw8j2tXZgpaGMKGXbQln22W13NCCtHB2KFjftLycLA_JA-k4EOF6RlvPY4kcJ-Klp-nA)> wrote:

<<<snip>> I cannot imagine a single Wanderer (Tibetan
monks maybe?) out of the millions on Earth to be able
to be born and not become "karmically entangled". It
just sounds very unrealistic and that of
wishful-thinking to humour such an idea.

LS: I think there might be some confusion about what
karmic entanglement means. Of course there is karma
involved in simply being alive in 3rd density. If one
kills a bug, there is karma. One says something that
is not terribly kind or patient with another person-
karma is earned. But we are also alive in the world
and we are receiving the karmic backlash every minute
of every day. When those of Ra said karmic
entanglement could keep a Wanderer in 3rd density and
permanently retard its progress, what I believe they
meant was that karma that would require a lot of
lifetimes to expiate. Himmler and Hitler and his boys
have a lot of karmic stuff to balance. If a positive
Wanderer found itself so confused that it was earning
some really powerful karma through very violent
actions against others, then this would have to be
balanced through additional time in the 3D field. Ra
talks a lot about Wanderers in Books 1 and 2. Please
have a look at what they say, because they don't say
that when a Wanderer commits to serving in 3rd
density, it has to repeat the entire density
experience between 3rd density and its home density.

Under your model as well, if a Wanderer found itself
with its polarity changed from positive to negative
[or vice versa], then it would have to repeat all the
density experiences from 3rd density upwards to learn
the lessons appropriate to the polarity. Those of Ra
say explicitly that this is not so-- the higher the
density of the Wanderer or entity changing polarity,
the easier it is to change polarities. Of course,
this also makes it terribly dangerous for a positive
Wanderer in 3rd density space. According to Ra, this
has happened to two Wanderers on their own world of
Venus. These Wanderers were most disconcerted to
realize that they had changed polarity, and when they
did, they realized that they were going to have to
learn those lessons of negative polarity [which they
never learned before] before they could re-embrace the
positive ones of the polarity they just left.

So the dangers surrounding Wanderers are 1) danger of
inadvertantly shifting polarities and 2) becoming
majorly confused and earning some heavy karma to be
balanced and thus being forced to stay in 3rd density
until it was balanced. Those of Ra have been serving
here on Earth for many centuries because those of Ra,
with the best intentions and the permission of the
Council of Saturn, tried to help and wound up making
things more difficult and confusing ["worse"]. Those
of Ra have committed to remaining until this karmic
load is balanced, through service as Wanderers and in
other ways. DW says that this honor/duty will remain
until Earth is fully 4th density and 4th density is
well established. Those of Ra say that there are only
a couple of million years left in their time of 6th
density before they can ascend to 7th density....they
could never say a thing like that, under your model,
Amir, if it were true that Wanderers have to keep
repeating every density until they reach their home
density again.

No one every said, and I'm not saying, that there is
no sacrifice in a Wanderer committing to serving at
3rd density. There is a lot of risk, and sacrifice,
and suffering [most Wanderers are burdened with some
kind of mental or physical-or both- problem that is
debilitating and limiting. Partly this comes from the
density difference between the home density and the
3rd density vibrations being not compatible and partly
to help keep the Wanderer from getting to a place in
life where some very major karma can be accumulated
which would require many lifetimes of balance.] There
have been Wanderers in high places before [e.g. FDR
and Eleanor Roosevelt] and another kind of 3rd density
placement, a 'walk-in' [Abraham Lincoln], but this is
rare.

Another point I would like to make is this: if what
you are saying is true, then it might be impossible or
take orders of magnitude longer for a social memory
complex with Wanderers in 3rd density to ever make it
past the first octave, if they had to keep repeating
density experiences due to karmic entanglements.
There are about one million Wanderers on Earth right
now, most of them from Ra. Imagine how long it would
take to return to sixth density if these one million
Wanderers had to serve 3rd though 5th density all over
again. Of course, when we think of evolutionary
time, a few million years is a blink of an eye, but
the process would take so long that galaxies would die
and maybe universes too before even one social memory
complex made it up to the octave level.

~lesley



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[cyberfina]

Also, Ra said that there have been negative entities from the 3rd
density that were able to enter the 4th density. Rasputin was one.
This suggests to me that even negative beings can "vibrate" into the
4th and 5th densities. The catch being that they will not be in a
positive sector there.

The sixth density is where only positive beings are allowed access.
So, if a wanderer is from the 4th or 5th density and they incurred
negative karma, they may find themselves in a negative sector of the
density they originated from.

[Stephen Tyman]

Hello again, Amir. I think most of what you remark is essentially correct. But
yet the conclusion varies from my own.
Karmic entanglement of the sort that would keep one chained to these
environs is quite a significant matter. More or less minor hitches in the
incarnative git-along would not rise to this level. Perfection is not to be
found here, no doubt. But it is not required.
Further, I cannot agree with your estimate of the ratios of positive to
negative. The latter most definitely, IMHO, do not outnumber the former. I
believe the destiny of this planet -- that is, of one cycling into 4D positive
-- was determined on the basis of the root polarity choice which has been made
here, and that is positive. One must keep in mind that harvestable polarity in
STO is computed at 50%. That leaves much room for dysfunctional behaviour yet,
does it not?
As for groups like the Cassiopaeans, I can only say that my experience with
them (through their local reps) is that they are bearers of a mixed message.
Beware. Give them the open-heart test. Does an encounter with them fill you
with hope, optimism, joy and a sense of safety? Or do you get warnings, fear,
judgements, or a sense of I-know-more-than-thou? Try challenging their belief
systems and see what happens. See how friendly the disagreements are.
My two cents. Lo/Li Stephen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Kay Dayss]

I personally don't think it matters what density you're in because each
density provides a learning environment. For example, it isn't, to me,
"better" to be a 5th density being than a 3rd density being. Theoretically,
I think one could jump around in the densities, but why would one want to do
that? It seems to me that the greatest learnings will be achieved by
sticking with the "assignment" we chose before we entered a particular life.
The density that is most appropriate to help me learn the lessons will be
the one I choose.

So I don't feel like it is a sacrifice to go "back" to 3rd density. It is a
FUN opportunity. 3rd density earth humans have placed themselves into
believing in extreme limitations, so it is very very very hard for them to
break out of it and become happy let alone harvestable. This, for me, was
the great challenge of living a 3d life at this time. That's why it is so
special to me to make a huge difference by helping even just one 3d
otherself to become happier. It isn't because "4d is better than 3d" at all.
It is because 3d is so limiting, and I want them to be able to see that
their choices are unlimited. It is an opportunity to serve and to help them
see that there is a lot more FUN to be had in the play rather than an
opportunity to raise them to a higher status.

So, for me anyway, I'm trying to break people out of the prison they've
created for themselves here. Technically, they don't even have to be come
harvestable to get out of the prison. Even 3d doesn't have to be so limited.

Blessings,
Kay

[Stephen Tyman]

"The sixth density is where only positive beings are allowed access.
So, if a wanderer is from the 4th or 5th density and they incurred
negative karma, they may find themselves in a negative sector of the
density they originated from."

I believe the proper way to put this is that no entity has yet succeeded in
making it past mid-6th density in the negatively polarized configuration -- that
is, love of self above other. Some there are, I believe, who are yet working on
the problem of entropy they face.
Secondly, I would distinguish between polarity and karma. Karma is like an
energy-knot into which one gets twisted, generally with relation to others. It
implies lack of clarity in the choice. Those whose choice is clearly negative
--that is, whose almost exclusive expression is love of self -- do not thereby
incur what is called karma. They dance quite purely to their own tune.
The correctness of your point would seem to lie in the fact that a positive
entity can, in 3D, mistake a projection of self-love for other-love, and in this
way reverse the essential energy-signature or choice. If this results in mere
confusion, 3D lessons are the order of the day, and disentanglement the goal.
If the purity of the (veiled) choice is such that it qualifies for 4D negative,
that would be the further destination of the mind/body/spirit complex. Not so?
Lo/Li Stephen



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Kay Dayss]

Yes! And I think even 911 had an impact as so many of us realized that our
first reaction to such horror was not hate or a desire for revenge at all
nor was it fear. It was LOVE. We saw this all over the planet. I feel
strongly that this huge outpouring of love had a positive effect on the
number of harvestable beings.

Blessings,
Kay


----- Original Message -----
From: "Beverly Thompson" <beverly46@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=-EIExISnjDu8nOr5vaH2sfpQ9ld754ACoIE0oemG8pYEvWAHHrd egvwyCnIDyw-AGCJYMLnFtufC6CXLLg)>

I would also like to point out that we have had some pretty powerful
astrological/metaphysical/cosmic/magical events that have taken place since
the early 80's when the RA material was channeled. The Harmonic Convergence
in 1987 and the Harmonic Concordance in 2003 just to name a couple biggies!
I have no doubt these have changed the numbers of people that RA predicted
that would be harvested. Oh, and aren't we a society that likes to have a
big turn around at the end of the drama for a positive outcome? We love a
cliff hanger!

[Erik]

I still know that Harvest isnt the issue for God.
All in itself, even when STS goes Beserk.......

The Issue is US.
This Cycle.

Or am I wrong?
Erik.

[detlef]

>
> I wonder how many Wanderers get stuck with karmic entanglements? A
good-sized,
> double-digit percentage, I bet. What happens if a Wanderer does not get
any
> karmic entanglements, yet had regressed a bit to below the 51% STO
requirement?
> I would suppose that mainly the stronger, more mature latter-stage 4-D
beings
> and above could choose to reincarnate back into 3-D, rather than the
early-stage
> 4-D beings who may get temporarily stuck in 3-D by slight regressions.
>

Detlef:
Something I was given from my own "support staff"

Not much credit is given here to the set up and support staff which come in
with the so called
wanderer. It can be said that a small percentage come under prepared and not
of the angelic realm, but in regard of the karmic entanglements, if it is
possible to set up karmic ties for one life time, it is possible to remove
them. There are not many angelic wanderer who still have karmic ties or
karma still does apply.
Hallelujah.

Regards Detlef

[protoplasmicorganism]

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=0-uxk4AloIAHEq5EAHxDoIJxN3Ik8jygwSL2g0tq95juM9f4p66x ZgiG9d2VRKg12IulOSYNxnAfHLc), "detlef" <dgeorg@o...> wrote:
> if it is possible to set up
karmic ties for one life time,
it is possible to remove them...


This reminds me of "car" dreams which
some argue can be some indication of
"karma". Other ideas of "karma" include
this idea of dis-attachment, letting go
of outcome as a means of liberty.

In relation to internet sharing,
this idea of "intent being everything"
seems to go along, that there seems
some emotional energy which travels
along with our words.

In a sense, if you consider our words
as composed of letters and the nature
of letters as being as Runes, (mostly
read but rarely spoken,) what we may
have returned to is an old form of
Runic spell magic, as said before,
knowingly or not.

So wizards and witches of yesteryear
passed down the advice of the rule
of threes, that whatever you put out
comes back three times. (It may be
this relates to light, the idea of
emission/absorption, transmission,
and reflection.)

But back to internet sharing, the
case is slightly different because
when we share we may not reach one
person but many. Like a rock show
concert of amplified proportions,
our electronic technology magnifies
our effort. So this old rule of
threes seems leveraged much greater.

And so it behooves us to be careful
that we put out only that which we
may desire to withstand reflected
back at us amplified many fold.

[detlef]

>>
>
> This reminds me of "car" dreams which
> some argue can be some indication of
> "karma". Other ideas of "karma" include
> this idea of dis-attachment, letting go
> of outcome as a means of liberty.

Detlef:
That is correct, detachment or dis-attachment
is the most effective way to stay out of carmic ties.
Somebody els calls it "staying behind the short wall".
For an angelic wanderer, that is the place to be.
I am not sure if it is different for any other wanderers.



> In relation to internet sharing,
> this idea of "intent being everything"
> seems to go along, that there seems
> some emotional energy which travels
> along with our words.
>
> But back to internet sharing, the
> case is slightly different because
> when we share we may not reach one
> person but many. Like a rock show
> concert of amplified proportions,
> our electronic technology magnifies
> our effort. So this old rule of
> threes seems leveraged much greater.
>
> And so it behooves us to be careful
> that we put out only that which we
> may desire to withstand reflected
> back at us amplified many fold.

Detlef:
Not only is the written word expressed in energy, it is very easy, through
the writing words, to pick up the emotions of the author.


Regards

[srachele2004]

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=qXnWHiQR7Y6XX_B7V1m-KJ93Nj51wGjL6eWHfaDgovPyHL_mf3t3R02dKxqVDQD6ZEqis6 BJmHQ6uSaHgw), "Tarzan" <tarzan@n...> wrote:

> I wonder how many Wanderers get stuck with karmic entanglements?
> A good-sized, double-digit percentage, I bet.

Dear Tarzan/Seth, Lesley, et al.,

A great topic for discussion! I would venture that a great number of
Wanderers get tangled up in karmic relationships, since there have not
been very many enlightened wanderers with large banners saying "pick
me for a relationship, I'm not karmically entangled." :-))

Being a 6D Wanderer myself (as are many in this group), it took me at
least 15 years of this life to clear the majority of my karmic energy
patterns. If I'm the norm, then probably most Wanderers who have been
consciously on a path of soul growth for LESS than 15 years have not
yet cleared the majority of their karmic issues. So I would venture to
say that MORE than HALF of the 6D Wanderers are probably still stuck
in karmic patterns.

From Tarzan/Seth:
> What happens if a Wanderer does not get any karmic entanglements,
> yet had regressed a bit to below the 51% STO requirement?

Sal:
This is highly unlikely unless such Wanderer is living in a cave.

Tarzan/Seth:
> There's gotta be more than a half-million harvestable people on
> Terra at this point in time, but, whatever the number, it's a
> historic moment in this entire Logos.

Sal:
The numbers that have been telepathed to me indicate between 10 and 30
million Terrans will make the grade (not counting the Wanderers).

BTW, enjoy the blackberries!

[Lesley Schultz]

Dear Sal, Seth, All- L/L & Peace

--- srachele2004 <srachele2004@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=P0MyyIkwi2Og2-NoTqgxH8T9CYN-miNVFDATP4ZEt_M8DAskVvayL3GSDlYIj7U5kYwDiDY0J4eIRm pPZdAi1A)> wrote:

>snip>> The numbers that have been telepathed to me
indicate between 10 and 30 million Terrans will make
the grade (not counting the Wanderers).

LS: Well, if the number is 30 million, that's about
0.05%. Sounds fair to me. Most encouraging. So Sal,
what do you think will happen? Do you think there
will be an MBE? Or do you think that, between earth
changes, infrastructure collapse and disease/normal
attrition, the excess 99.95% will die off during the
next 50-100 years and the 4D will come in all by
itself?

I admit to some confusion here. We are, according to
the Ra material, already in 4D space and the earth
herself is a 4D sphere. However, the living part of
Gaia and her consciousness is being retarded from full
4D expression by the presence of these unpolarized 3D
entities. Somewhere between 2011 and 2013, this is
supposed to change. I've read that there will be a
great burst of energy from the Sun, which will
energize this planet and everything on it to 4th
density. Do you think that this is what's supposed to
happen? Or do you think it's more gradual, that
eventually no 3D entities will be birthed on Gaia and
everyone born after a certain point will be fully 4D
and the population will replace itself that way?

I realize that Harvest is a different thing from
Ascension, and Harvest is indeed going on right now
and has been going on for some time already. What do
you see as the critical point when Ascension and
Harvest come together, and what do you think will be
the local effect here on Gaia?

Thanks in advance for considering this question,
~lesley



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