green-ray giving?

[lealdragon]

I'm confused about how to show love to other-selves who tend to
be 'black holes'. My natural inclination is to want to help people,
but I'm often taken advantage of. For example, a friend's husband
became disabled and I gave them $400 to pay their rent. Another
friend then did a fundraiser and raised $20,000 for this family. I
found out later that my friend and her husband blew the entire
amount on cocaine over the next few months, and justified it since
they'd been so traumatized. My husband and I scraped to get that $$
to them, and I just couldn't believe that my friend would squander
the $$ on partying and make no effort to pay us back.

At the time I gave them the $$, I knew they could not possibly pay
it back, so I told them that if they could pay it back someday,
fine, and if not, that was ok. I did not anticipate their getting
$20,000 from a fundraiser. So it's not like I was attached to being
paid back. I feel that I did give freely at the time. It was later,
when they blew all that $$, that it became an issue for me.

This sort of thing happens to me often. I could give other examples
but you get the idea. Usually the person asks me for help, so it's
not like I am running around trying to impose my help where it's not
wanted.

You know how the homeless people beg on street corners? I've heard
many people say that we should never give to them, because sometimes
it is a scam and they just want $$ for liquor. I've always thought
that it is better to give than not to give. If I give and they spend
it on alcohol, that is their problem. But if I do not give and they
really do need the help, then I would have lost an opportunity to
help someone.

I know that the STO path is about love. I really don't have a
problem with giving to others, provided I am able to do so
(sometimes I can't). But I'm often told I am 'too nice'. My question
is, am I really being of service to these people by helping them, if
they continue the same pattern of not appreciating the help, and
continue to make the same choices that keeps them in the rut?

But how do I know? I do not want to judge them. I do not want to
become cold. These people who say to not give to the beggars, they
seem to me cold and without compassion. I have been on the receiving
end of a lack of compassion. I do not want to be like that!

I know that I do have a challenge with self-love and tend to put
other people's needs in front of my own. I know that the LoO says we
must love ourselves as well. I was extremely dismayed when I
realized what a long ways I have to go towards loving myself, that
harvestability requires that we love not only others but ourselves
as well. Could it be that I am being given catalyst to encourage me
to actually be more selfish, which for many people would not be
good, but maybe in my case is what I need for my own balance?

There are many books written about 'tough love' and 'enabling' -
which basically say that when people continue the same pattern and
don't get their act together, that we should not continue helping
them because in the long run that is actually harming them, because
they get too dependent on our help and do not learn to help
themselves and change their pattern of behavior.

What I find difficult is: how do we know that they are stuck in a
self-defeating pattern, or whether they truly do need and want our
help? If we try to figure that out, isn't that judging? If they say
they want our help, wouldn't it be judging to deny that help because
we perceive that they really don't deserve it, that maybe they
haven't earned it? How could we possibly know whether someone is on
the verge of a breakthru? Isn't it more loving to give freely?

Realistically, tho, unless we are wealthy (which I am not) then we
can't 'give freely'. (Well we can give freely of our
time/ourselves, but not of physical resources.) There has to be some
sort of limit. Is it right to base that limit on our perceived
assessment of their situation? I do not like to do that because
there have been times when I really was at rock bottom myself, and
desired help, and no one was there to help me. I had fallen many
times, had tried but failed many times, and to an observer would
have appeared to be a failure.

I have seen how a bit of compassion can go a long way, when the
person is ready to receive it. My question is, how do we know that
the person is ready to receive our help? Suppose they are asking for
help, and appear sincere in their efforts to change their lives,
even tho I've heard this story b4. I do not like to hold someone to
the past. I want to believe in them and show compassion and have
hope. But after repeatedly being taken advantage of, how do I remain
loving and giving?

I find it virtually impossible to follow the idea of 'tough love'
even with my son. It seems to me that many of the childrearing
practices that are taken for granted in our society, such as
expecting blind obedience, are actually STS in nature. The LoO says
that any controlling of another is STS - would that not include
children?

I run into the same pattern with my son - I am accused of giving too
much and not being strict enough. He is a very loving person and we
are very close, but he lacks self-discipline. I would rather he be
loving with no self-discipline than mean-spirited but with self-
discipline! Our society values the discipline and expects 'respect'
(translate: submission) of authority (adults). I remind myself that
I am raising a child of Light, a child who has a destiny in a world
that will be a higher vibration.

I think maybe what I am dealing with is the transition - the
challenge of applying 4D guidelines in a 3D world.

I was just re-reading Book IV, the part about the negative entity
trying to stop the communication. Ra was asked what the entity would
gain from this, and the answer was the power of controlling a
powerful being such as the instrument. When we give to someone who
is just taking our energy, are we in fact adding to their negative
polarizing?

This is confusing to me, since these people (the ones I try to help)
do not seem negatively polarized, but just typical 3D fencesitters.
They mean well, and I always think that if I am operating in green
ray, truly wanting to help them out of love, then I am doing
the 'right' thing. Yet, I have this pattern, so I know that there is
some lesson eluding me. The catalyst keeps repeating, so there must
be something I am not getting.

Any thoughts, comments, reassurances, or tips on how to give without
being drained would be appreciated!

Thanks and blessings

Monica

[Chris Hamilton]

From: "lealdragon" <lealdragon@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=msrIMJ6_nWodIkCUVxjF_S9-22qCfUIvlofSDqBhFwYS2LktyTFGZ9fNh1f9MjvgLbDAwdoy3o Wb9XD7FUigkg)>

I'm confused about how to show love to other-selves who tend to be 'black
holes'. My natural inclination is to want to help people, but I'm often
taken advantage of.
_____________________
Chris here: Everyone has free choice as The LOO clearly demonstrates.
However, part of our 'experiences', of which the Creator learns from, can
include certain lessons, such as how to be less gullible (I do pretty good
at that one too:).

In true 4D, all would be positive on earth since the negative 4D's would be
somewhere else (according to the LOO books), so I don't believe that being
loving in an unconditional sense would be detrimental in that density.
However, here on earth, we still have a mixture of polarity, thus, those who
are trusting, like you and me, can often get duped.

This is probably one of your 'experiences'. One of the things you have
agreed upon to learn.
--------------------------
Leal: Usually the person asks me for help, so it's not like I am running
around trying to impose my help where it's not wanted.
_____________________

Chris: Here is where you can be more discerning without being uncomfortable
inside. Until you can discern who you really want to help, contribute to
established charities first. Red Cross often helps families like the one you
helped, so give to Red Cross knowing that they can help your neighbors.
There are many reputable charities like this and you separate yourself from
the actual recipient until you can unemotionalize your feelings that push
you in the first place.
_______________
Leal: But if I do not give and they really do need the help, then I would
have lost an opportunity to help someone.
_______________

Chris: No :) This is discernment :). It is probably your lesson this time
around. Love yourself and understand that you can't help 'everyone', as
Lightworkers and Wanderers want to do:). We just can't do it all Leal. But
understand that inside, you will be given the opportunity to understand this
from the experiences presented to you.
_______________________
Leal: I know that the STO path is about love. But I'm often told I am 'too
nice'. My question is, am I really being of service to these people by
helping them, if they continue the same pattern of not appreciating the
help, and continue to make the same choices that keeps them in the rut?
_____________________

Chris: What keeps 'them' in their rut is their life choices :) It is
something you really don't have control of really. All you can do is love.
_______________
Leal: But how do I know?
____________________
Chris: We don't....You need to use your inner powers that show you how to
trust and understand when some people don't have the best of intentions.
Truth is, we don't always see the other person's choice, because we want to
see the best in everyone. I guess, when we get into this situation, it is
best to have friends of like-mind to talk to so we can see past the
intentions and into what the other person may decide to do. It's a crap
shoot Leal :) Love your questions!

[smileyjaiy]

In either Davids work or the law of one I remember reference to the
description of 4th density and 5th density. With the 4th its all about
giving unconditionaly, love, that patience must be learned because one
is always wanting to be giving. And when one is operating in 5th
density its about learning wisdom. Perhaps although alltogether we are
currently still functioning in 3rd density, you yourself are
resonating at the 4th and learning 5th lessons. When to give and when
not to give; 'to give when it only serves the best interest those
being served and all others?" - something like that? I remember
hearing about that lady saint from India who gives hugs to people
hours on end without ever tiring, she speaks of the value to always
give love to all beings unconditionally. Yet I hear she 'demands'
strict adherence to her organizations 'rules' by her devotees. Sounds
to me like she is an example of someone who knows how to blend
unconditional love and wisdom (4th and 5th) - Jaiyson

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=vFYyxiH39DQR7jKSqfiF7fxR5iRs-H2NKWUhgbZrMd5zHE0o29DqELgAn-MRmn75DEOC_qigyzZB3sA), "lealdragon" <lealdragon@s...> wrote:
>
>
> I'm confused about how to show love to other-selves who tend to
> be 'black holes'. My natural inclination is to want to help people,
> but I'm often taken advantage of. For example, a friend's husband
> became disabled and I gave them $400 to pay their rent. Another
> friend then did a fundraiser and raised $20,000 for this family. I
> found out later that my friend and her husband blew the entire
> amount on cocaine over the next few months, and justified it since
> they'd been so traumatized. My husband and I scraped to get that $$
> to them, and I just couldn't believe that my friend would squander
> the $$ on partying and make no effort to pay us back.

[YoUnGhAwK]

Hello Monica and all the other me's out there in asc2k world, :)

My name is Ricky, better known as YoungHawk online. I am new to this
group and at first I was planning on just reading everyones posts to
get to know everyone before I posted anything, but I have been
compelled to reply to this post.

I understand what your going through, for I myself have goon through
the exact thing and asked myself the very same questions in my past.
Some of the things I'm going to say here might come across a little
bit harsh, but this is the only way I know how to tell you what I
have experienced, and for the harshness I do apologize ahead of
time. To start you said, "My question is, am I really being of
service to these people by helping them, if they continue the same
pattern of not appreciating the help, and continue to make the same
choices that keeps them in the rut?". What you think of as helping
someone isn't always what is really helping them. Giving someone
something when they need it is not true compassion to me. Compassion
involves the complete understanding of someone and loving them for
who they are no matter what, knowing that they are perfect in every
way. Not the saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

One of our hardest goals in this life is to remember true
compassion. I have spend most of my life hating this place we call
earth, thinking that it was the only hell there could be. Knowing
that I didn't belong here, that I wasn't like anyone here, and hating
everyone here for that. Thinking that this place was just the scum
of the universe. All my life I have been the nice guy that got
stabbed in the back by everyone around me, but that has changed in
the last years of my life. Do you wanna know what changed, it wasn't
the world or the people, it was me. I died one day and a new person
took my place, I looked upon the earth with new eyes, with a new
heart. I began to see the class room for what it was, just that a
class room. You know what makes a class room different from anything
else in the world, learning without judgement. A second grade
teacher doesn't judge her students because they cant multiply double
digits. We are all here to learn, even those of us that know we've
already done this before. Most of the people in the world don't know
what it's like to be loved or to love, how to be compassionate or how
to accept compassion. But it's not for me to judge them just because
they don't understand. If I was to expect someone from this 3rd
density to act like someone of 6th density, that would be like
expecting a 2nd grader to act like a college student. One of the
things that changed in me that day, was that I no longer have
expectations of what people should be.

All my life I've been able to see through peoples masks, deep down to
the core of their souls. I always saw the good, the love in people,
but the one thing I did wrong, was to expect them to be that person
and not to accept them for who they really were in that moment. So
in doing this most of my life, I could only expect dissapointment.

We are all ONE, and that ONE is perfect in every way. In these
moments of seperateness we are all working out things on this plan,
there are parts of ourself that have walked away from the one-ness,
the thing they don't realize is that they can never leave theirself.
So in doing this they are only causing their own pain. There comes a
day when all of us die(doesn't have to be physical) and turn back to
remember who we really are. If you want to start loving yourself,
start by loving those around you for who they are in this moment and
know that they are perfect. No matter what they do in life, no
matter what experience they choose to walk through, for every path
leads back to the One-ness and therefor every path is perfect.

For in the end there is NO dark or light, negative densities or
positive densities, there is ONLY ONE! So until that day comes when
One mind/One body/One spirit again we ARE, KNOW everything is perfect
exactly the way it is.

Thank you for this, for in being able to finally say these things,
makes me understand them even better than I ever did.

In Love and Trust

YoUnGhAwK
Ricky

[madonnafra]

Extremely Well Said YoungHawk.
Blessings,
Gayle
GS5555
Texas Wind

[Ruth Paterson]

--- YoUnGhAwK <jr_stephenson@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=tFpjR40mdfPOMCXblTZJh7UUD0yZRj5U1gUoa_ WlngX5jym7jAQtmvoiNFKBIrH_yg4v49vKBv1PpROyayiG)> wrote:

> Do you wanna know what changed, it wasn't
the world or the people, it was me. I died one day
and a new person
took my place, I looked upon the earth with new eyes,
with a new
heart. I began to see the class room for what it was,
just that a
class room. You know what makes a class room
different from anything
else in the world, learning without judgement.
>
Welcome, Ricky - thank you for sharing your experience
with us. It is a reminder that the only thing in life
that you have total power to change is yourself! It
seems that you have been able to accomplish that, so
bravo! Your letter was right on topic. Thanks, Ruth
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[NEIL HADDON]

----- Original Message -----
From: "YoUnGhAwK" <jr_stephenson@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=PKdPJrX1oOS4U89LaRaqlQYFLp_RW-L9Nj8MsYGyz9QpndpQ_UOqVcqInN65z3AgXlA5nA2FYwb7EqZI 9CFe)>
Ricky wrote:
>>Thank you for this, for in being able to finally
say these things,
makes me understand them even better than I ever
did.<<

...and us too. Thank *You*, Ricky.

Love.
Neil

[lealdragon]

Thanks so much to everyone who responded - I really appreciate all
that you have said! There were certain key things in each response
that spoke to me.

Yes, I have been very guilty of expecting other-selves to act in the
way that I would, and I realize now that that was not really loving &
accepting them for who they are and where they're at. I definitely did
already believe that Earth is a 1-room schoolhouse with many levels
being taught at the same time, but even tho I knew that intellectually
I was still having expectations that people would learn according to
how I thought they should learn.

The part about 5D lessons of wisdom - wow, that was really a
mind-blower. I am still pondering that. It was something I'd suspected
but wouldn't allow myself to contemplate. But I realize now it makes
perfect sense.

Someone mentioned the idea of giving to reputable charities - I
already do that but the challenge has been with close friends and
family members - people who are in my life and seem to be attracted to
my 'niceness'. People I have relationships with, that can be affected
by how I handle these interactions/requests for $$ etc.

I think I fret too much about what people think of me. I have a friend
who is extremely sick from breast implants yet refuses to take them
out - I am working on how to be there as a friend for her without
judging her decision. Also on the resentment I felt when she has asked
me for help yet refused to take action on what I thought was the
obvious solution. I think the main thing I have had trouble with was
when people expected ME to pay the price for their decisions, then
they think I am being 'selfish' and 'uncaring' and 'cold' if I refuse.

I've begun to get a glimmer of revelation - it does seem that when I
give freely of my own accord, it feels right to me, but when I feel
pressured or backed into a corner, there seems to be resentment on my
part. I will work on not having expectations of other-selves and maybe
that will help them not to have expectations of me.

And there were other points as well, from other people - thanks to
everyone!

[fran.vincent@...>]

To All:

Leadragon wrote, 12/07/04:

... " but the challenge has been with close friends and family
members - people who are in my life and seem to be attracted to my
'niceness'. People I have relationships with, that can be affected by
how I handle these interactions/requests for $$ etc. "

Fran writes: And this is when you want to work on wisdom--when to, when
not to, and how to.. Set up your boundaries. Zee has a good point--you
also want to take care of you too You have a responsibility to protect
you, and some people, maybe, should not be in your life. Love them,
but leave them alone.

If a person we are always helping is in constant self gratification,
probably a STS, is it wise on our part to continue to help that person,
and will it help?

..."I will work on not having expectations of other-selves and maybe
that will help them not to have expectations of me. "

Giving unconditionally is difficult to pull off. We unknowing expect
some kind of return.

Expectations is part of the key that has helped me. I make an effort to
not become attached to the outcome of an issue (such as the election,
an alcholic or a drug user (I have both in my life)--we have very little
control over most issues) This helps keeps me mentally in balance.
This other key is detachment. I do care and have compassion , but I
cannot control the outcomes--detachment lessens the expectations. We
need to learn our lessons and others need to learn their lessons. And
if I keep the focus that in the final analysis, ALL IS WELL, and as it
will be, this helps me too!

In love and light,

The Lucky Unicorn,

Fran












[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[YoUnGhAwK]

Heya,

When people back you into a corner they are trying to take advantage
of you, I know people try to do this to me all the time, but I've
learned ways around it. Like I don't judge homeless people for
beging for money, but most times if I do anything for someone on the
streets, I will take them for something to eat or give them some of
my old coats and such. Only on small occasions do I actually give
money, like maybe during the winter I will give money once or twice,
a good drink helps keep warm.

I've had friends before that were in hard spots for money, so I would
offer to buy their groceries. If they really want the help they
accept the offer. You'll know what they really want to use the money
for if they decline and just ask for the money. Giving to charities
is always a good thing to do, because they have people that will make
sure the things are bought for the people that need it. So my
suggestion to help you get control back from those that push you into
corners, is to help them with what they are in need of, but don't
give them cash. If not groceries you can always offer to go and pay
a bill or two for them. Those that turn these things down don't
really want the help for what they say.

Your friend with the implants, what I would do is offer to help her
heal them, that is if you work with healing energies. There are no
limitations in healing, yes the best thing to think for the healing
would be to have the implants removed, but she doesn't want that, so
you could always try and help as much as possible. The real lesson
is to understand why she doesn't want to get rid of them, understand
how she thinks and why she thinks. It's not as hard as we believe it
to be, just remember she is just another part of you, go to that part
and understand.

With Blessing and Love

YoUnGhAwK
Ricky

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=7ilTSPnxApXy3WaGDkhieHUIkMwiWSODJrnZP0 LRvNb71pZEIZmlQbQpi-tLa5C9RyUiuc4kNNqXSjZ6ng), "lealdragon" <lealdragon@s...> wrote:

> Thanks so much to everyone who responded - I really appreciate all
> that you have said! There were certain key things in each response
> that spoke to me.
> Yes, I have been very guilty of expecting other-selves to act in the
> way that I would, and I realize now that that was not really loving
& accepting them for who they are and where they're at.
but the challenge has been with close friends and family members - people who
are in my life and seem to be attracted to my 'niceness'. People I have
relationships with, that can be affected by how I handle these
interactions/requests for $$ etc.
>

[GenoNess1@...]

In a message dated 12/7/2004 11:41:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,
fran.vincent@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=p0O6fgqrEvS8RxZTKWPQE8M5-JA27R9Ww_kzzlTB6hv4NyVvjHZoe8lfOG7vCcQSz9Pf8CASIS1 tNtc7dHasRsYURvM) writes:
Giving unconditionally is difficult to pull off. We unknowing expect
some kind of return.


A thought just occured to me...that maybe in giving unconditionally you must
release your need to give only where you choose? do you see what i am saying?

yes we give expecting some kind of return...but in favoring putting our
energies into one situation or another we are conditional. that doesnt mean stop
giving...it means stop limiting your gifts! wow hehehehe Love, me!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Leslie Tenold]

Giving unconditionally is evidence of true love. Expecting a return means your
in it for yourself not just for the other person. LOVE LES
www.healingangels.net

In a message dated 12/7/2004 11:41:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,
fran.vincent@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=IXAWcTCEOpPjTjkyJ6p9UTLtO6D2kEpkqi75zZ sFBshsa8UmUh651jB2xzgoSY5QmzZsDwqmZIu7CA-dglo_EPI5tP-Ztg) writes:
Giving unconditionally is difficult to pull off. We unknowing expect
some kind of return.
A thought just occured to me...that maybe in giving unconditionally you must
release your need to give only where you choose? do you see what i am saying?

From: GenoNess1@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=0HLJFsBL-J8tVeVlFTpm4zx4ooXZFGFZ5oc2otfJ42xAlVdhSX7nhe_xVLx UqxFt1m9pd1PBaetVJrg)
yes we give expecting some kind of return...but in favoring putting our
energies into one situation or another we are conditional. that doesnt mean
stop giving...it means stop limiting your gifts! wow hehehehe Love, me!

[madonnafra]

This opening of the heart concerns way more than merely material things. It
is about being kind even when we do not receive kindness in return. It is
about being compassionate even if we do not receive compassion from others in
our
lives. It is about being non-judgemental even when we feel judged. It is a
way of be-ing, not something that is learned. It is what we be-come when we
choose to walk our Path in One-ness and alignment with Creator GOD. It is
natural by product of the journey and in the being of it, we find inner peace.
When we find inner peace, we will be able to manifest it in the world and not
before.
Blessings,
Gayle
GS5555
Texas Wind


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[lealdragon]

I understand your point but I guess that's too advanced for me. I
intellectually know that the universe is limitless in its resources,
yet financially there is still that struggle.

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=_2HInBVnu2rfR4-Jtq4e8Gh06BGr_XzyzFMtc6swzGwuinecO6Zje0mk25j3Nis2R 4mXts5x221QyfkMHQ), >
> In a message dated 12/7/2004 11:41:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> fran.vincent@p... writes:
> Giving unconditionally is difficult to pull off. We unknowing expect
> some kind of return.>
> A thought just occured to me...that maybe in giving unconditionally
you must > release your need to give only where you choose? do you see what i
am saying?

>GenoNess1@a... wrote:
> yes we give expecting some kind of return...but in favoring putting our
> energies into one situation or another we are conditional. that
doesnt mean stop
> giving...it means stop limiting your gifts! wow hehehehe Love, me!

[Karen]

"There are many books written about 'tough love' and 'enabling' -
which basically say that when people continue the same pattern and
don't get their act together, that we should not continue helping
them because in the long run that is actually harming them, because
they get too dependent on our help and do not learn to help
themselves and change their pattern of behavior."

My cent and a half here is that sometimes the best gift you can
bequeath to someone is to figure things out for themselves
sometimes. Kind of the give a man a fish you feed him for a day but
teach him to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. It is a lesson
many of us had to learn growing up there are only so many times you
can call your parents/friends for emergency funds/cash/bail that
they'll help you out until finally you learn to budget your money,
don't get into trouble, etc...

I learned the hard way. My parents never bailed me out of gave me a
dime ever since I was 18 (I am now 45) but I figure stuff out for
myself live with whatever it is I have to and I can say I am proud
(ok and somewhat stubborn) that I don't have to lean on anyone unless
I really REALLY need to. And, I am proud of that.

I was trained as a doormat as a child. I learned to be giving,
loving, and helpful cause that's what Christians do. And, that's all
well and good but it also brought into my life those black hole
beings that will literally suck the last dime or bit of energy you
have right out of you. And, I have a teenage daughter right now who
is doing exactly this. And, it is my gift to her to make her realize
that she is responsible for her decisions and bad or good she'll reap
the consquences therof.

So in the end to me you are being giving the gift of self reliance.
Charity is great and so is volunteering I do them both. I agree with
the discernment thing too.
Blessings,
Karen

[lealdragon]

Do you think that is true even if our only expectation is that the
person benefit from our giving, and improve their lives? Is that still
self-serving?

I am working on letting go of even that expectation. But I'm not sure
how that is self-serving, except maybe just the good feeling of having
helped someone.

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=QJKRhaxtRyxedAbEBrzQQjdWRuLbjAUmy3I3H0 QOI0ByE5nhuIFEevKENbrpXhRsz3SWHAs4KavhYxA), "Leslie Tenold" <lesangel2@c...> wrote:
>
> Giving unconditionally is evidence of true love. Expecting a return
means your in it for yourself not just for the other person. LOVE LES
> www.healingangels.net

[lealdragon]

Well said!

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=5iDWMrkiunq91cFmCAUj4wV9XMkXZim5zYFAHz Oij44IeH_q9hORd-VpPr1WabdhuUdd8O02lDWnJec), gs5555@a... wrote:
>
> This opening of the heart concerns way more than merely material
things. It
> is about being kind even when we do not receive kindness in return.
It is
> about being compassionate even if we do not receive compassion from
others in our
> lives. It is about being non-judgemental even when we feel judged.

[jha_amin]

--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=uNiNlRpI2FODyZgS1X-Fmd5yCPqwMG-i5W3iktFz5HeqFh7Ve2BlvbBFDYVZKAsNnmGMrAGrXNQ3BIlZY 98O), "lealdragon" <lealdragon@s...> wrote:
>
>
> Do you think that is true even if our only expectation is that the
> person benefit from our giving, and improve their lives? Is that still
> self-serving?
>
> I am working on letting go of even that expectation. But I'm not sure
> how that is self-serving, except maybe just the good feeling of having
> helped someone.
>
> --- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=uNiNlRpI2FODyZgS1X-Fmd5yCPqwMG-i5W3iktFz5HeqFh7Ve2BlvbBFDYVZKAsNnmGMrAGrXNQ3BIlZY 98O), "Leslie Tenold" <lesangel2@c...> wrote:
> >
> > Giving unconditionally is evidence of true love. Expecting a return
> means your in it for yourself not just for the other person. LOVE LES

Very selfless.....unconditional love.

I wonder if it is a violation of free will to give love to someone
that does not ask for it or want it.

Ra said the Orion sts would prefer a bucket of warm spit to your love. ;)

Ra quote:
The purpose of the Orion group, is
conquest and enslavement. This is done by finding and establishing an
elite and causing others to serve the elite through various devices.

thanks
glen

[GenoNess1@...]

In a message dated 12/12/2004 7:42:47 AM Pacific Standard Time,
frm@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=Lsq63WcZhvH4YaYoGynAUHTV-HH1NLaDLv0t0NXDRTLbhDtNuyKcDquIFhOCD_H1XN1E2qdweYC iTw) writes:
I wonder if it is a violation of free will to give love to someone
that does not ask for it or want it.


how can one receive love without allowing love?
that said how can free will possibly be violated?
choice is all there is...free will is a basic distortion of unity (which does
exist within/without/throughout free will but this choice an individual is
presented with is illusory and thus >>>distortion) and reality cannot be
subverted only added unto. this is why i always have maintained that free will
cannot POSSIBLY be infringed on because it is not a GUIDELINE to reality - it is
a
fundamental LAW of reality. jussssst beyond unity. variety! Love, me!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Leslie Tenold]

No I would not consider that self serving. A good feeling from helping others
is just natural. But bragging about it would be your ego showing. LES
www.healingangels.net


--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=lFqXAy14ZEKkwWiMLuuRRTJLsYhdEaQoEVkw8T 5SGvE5OUUicc_I7BnNKPzleAEs0bx0slgb3pZqyiSkag), "lealdragon" <lealdragon@s...> wrote: >
> Do you think that is true even if our only expectation is that the
> person benefit from our giving, and improve their lives? Is that still
> self-serving? >
> I am working on letting go of even that expectation. But I'm not sure
> how that is self-serving, except maybe just the good feeling of having
> helped someone.

> --- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=lFqXAy14ZEKkwWiMLuuRRTJLsYhdEaQoEVkw8T 5SGvE5OUUicc_I7BnNKPzleAEs0bx0slgb3pZqyiSkag), "Leslie Tenold" <lesangel2@c...> wrote:
> > Giving unconditionally is evidence of true love. Expecting a return
> means your in it for yourself not just for the other person. LOVE LES

From: jha_amin
Very selfless.....unconditional love.
I wonder if it is a violation of free will to give love to someone
that does not ask for it or want it.
Ra said the Orion sts would prefer a bucket of warm spit to your love. ;)

Ra quote:
The purpose of the Orion group, is
conquest and enslavement. This is done by finding and establishing an
elite and causing others to serve the elite through various devices.
thanks glen

[Carol Spooner]

Hello,

I am new to this discussion list and thank the moderators for
allowing me to join.

My name is Carol (Song of Joy). The name fits my Inner Self very
well, though Lord knows I have forgotten it many times! LOL

I have begun reading the list archives to become better acquainted.
This thread on green-ray giving reminded me of a question and answer
in the RA material that struck a deep chord in me. So, I'm pasting
it below in hopes that it will help.

I think the essence here is that green-ray giving, tempered with
widom, is without expectation as to the outcome on the physical
plane. Thinking about this is a great help to me, as I have
frequently been hurt in the past when loving-kindness did not "get
results" -- at least not that I could see.

--Carol

I. FEEDING THE HUNGRY

QUESTION: Many people try to help those who are in need, giving them
food if there is hunger as there is now in the African nations, by
bringing them medicine when needed. This is creating a vibration that
is in harmony with green-ray (love) or 4th density but it is not
balanced with the understanding of 5th density that these entities
are experiencing catalysts, and a more balanced administration of the
needs of the hungry would be to provide them with the learning
necessary to reach the sate of awareness of 4th density than it would
be to minister to their physical needs at this time. Is this correct?
(B2, 96)

RA: This is incorrect.

TO AN ENTITY WHICH IS STARVING, THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE IS THE
FEEDING OF THE BODY.

You may extrapolate from this. On the other hand, you are
correct in your assumption that the green ray response is not as
refined as that which has been imbued with wisdom. The wisdom enables
the entity to appreciate its contributions to the planetary
consciousness by the quality of its being without regard to activity
or behavior which expects results on the physical planes. (B2, 96)

[YoUnGhAwK]

Welcome Carol,

I too am new here. I hope that you find this place to be as great as
I have.

Now to my opinion on giving without expectation.

In true giving there should be no expectation. To quote RA, "TO AN
ENTITY WHICH IS STARVING, THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE IS THE FEEDING OF
THE BODY." He did not say though that one should expect something in
return from this entity. Yes, there are many types/levels of
giving. If one was to give a starving entity a meal, you would have
cured its starvation for that moment in time. Then if one was to
give a starving entity the knowledge to grow food to feed it for the
rest of its life, one will have given the means to rid starvation
completely. But in true giving one should not expect an outcome of
what will be done with these gifts. For then we would be forgeting
about one of the purest gifts given to everyone of us, the gift of
choice. It is not for us to judge the entity if it was to choose to
take the knowledge given and not use it in its life. What if RA, an
entity of higher dinsity, was to turn his back on us. Through all
the wonderful giving he has done for us, in sharing his understands
from within. What if he was to expect us to take these great
understandings and then by tomorrow join him within his dinsity and
then turn his back on all those that did not come. With expectations
we only leave ourselves open to be hurt/letdown, and we loose the
honoring of choice. In true compassion we love all for exactly who
they are and for the choices they make. In true giving we can only
do what we believe to be right. Then we have to step back and watch
the choices made from our gift. We may HOPE for what we think to be
the best outcome.

Most of my giving on this planet is to have a great harvest. In that
giving if I was to exect everyone here to take my gifts and to join
the harvest, I would just be setting my own self up for the pain of
being let down. So instead of expecting everyone to make it, the one
thing I can do is HOPE. I can HOPE that among the harvesting of this
planet that everyone comes along. But I will not judge anyone who
doesn't, but merely see it as they choose to take another path.

Bright Blessings

YoUnGhAwK
--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=TR0sB0qTkm2BPyPqCdXtisUFWnJCmQ4HCMe7Yi M-cwWV5GEMFjJimYIB13w7GYij9vxZAdqJauWi5xe7kAk), "Carol Spooner" <wildrose@p...> wrote:

> I think the essence here is that green-ray giving, tempered with
> widom, is without expectation as to the outcome on the physical
> plane. Thinking about this is a great help to me, as I have
> frequently been hurt in the past when loving-kindness did not "get
> results" -- at least not that I could see.
>
> --Carol

[lealdragon]

Many of the replies to my question about giving had to do with not
having expectations. Thanks again to everyone who responded! I have
learned alot from all that you have said, and have gotten alot to
think about! :)

Another issue about giving, besides the expectation issue, is the
issue of giving freely when one is not oneself already experiencing
abundance. I think another issue for me is that I really want to trust
that if I give first, then I could trust that the 'Universe will
provide'. I understand that in principle, but putting it into practice
is another matter!

So, my next question is, does giving freely without expectation mean
giving anyway even if that entails significant sacrifice on our part?
I don't mean sacrificing a bit of time or luxury, but sacrifice of our
own financial stability in terms of being able to pay our bills etc.

I've heard some people refer to 'giving from a place of abundance' -
which sounds really nice, but we can't very well wait until we have
lots of abundance b4 giving, and if we put a limitation on what we are
able to give based on our perception of our available resources, then
we aren't giving freely, right?

Sorry if I'm getting too convoluted here!

>
> In true giving there should be no expectation. To quote RA, "TO AN
> ENTITY WHICH IS STARVING, THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE IS THE FEEDING OF
> THE BODY." He did not say though that one should expect something in
> return from this entity. Yes, there are many types/levels of
> giving.