a rare gift

[cindercran]

<table>
<tt>A different, yet similar perspective of all the positive emails that are flowing through the spiritual lists...



Bin Laden has offered us a rare gift.



Have you ever really looked at that man's eyes? He has very kind eyes and a very gentle nature. I sense that he is here for a purpose and even though we may consider that purpose to be "evil", there is no evil in energy. Energy is energy is energy. Polarity is perception.



Bin Laden is offering us a chance, as a nation, to uplift ourselves gently by making a choice to respond with love and forgiveness rather than anger and fear.



Our responding with anger and fear may well seal our fate, a fate that is totally unnecessary.



Keep in mind, that we have reached a critical mass. This has been allowed to happen ONLY because it was determined that we had enough people on the side of love that we could possibly overcome the negativity of the situation. The choice is ours. The television is full of people saying "kill the bastards". Those are the fear mongers and are only encouraging more fear mongering.



We've been hearing about the "time for making a choice" coming up. Well this is it. I'm sure you all are aware of it, have heard it out the yingyang by now and are simply deleting the emails that come to you with words of upliftment. Yadda yadda. It's time to ACT and quit talking and reading email. Does anyone know how to get on TV and get their thoughts aired? Can anyone get their thoughts in a newspaper to let the masses read of another way? The internet is fine, but truthfully, you have to be LOOKING for our love and light in order to run across it. What about the average american that watches Football on Monday, Big Brother on Tuesday and is still internet ignorant, looking at porn rather than spirituality? How many of you dare to join and post to lists that aren't spiritually related?



It's great that we've all banded together as a unit, it was necessary. Now it's graduation time and our work begins. As citizens of awakened light, our job is to live in love and to speak those words of love and forgiveness every single time that someone either approaches us in fear or simply asks our position on this. We WILL be ostracized, criticized, condemned as fools, rejected as unamerican and persecuted for our beliefs. Sound familiar?



Go Forth in love and let your lights shine. No more listening to words of fear and hatred. Actively increase your light and vibrations while in groups, let your life show your nature. Choose your side and then live it and not just talk about it.



This is in no way accusations that most people aren't already doing that, but in every group there are some that do think it's ok to talk and not to act. We all understand that and please if you are not one of those, don't blast me. If you do, it's just your ego feeling guilty anyway! ;)



with love and true understanding,

cindi



</tt>

[ibphyb@...]

Cindi and Rosi, though I have chosen to be an observer since I joined this
group, your messages touched me and caused me to feel I had to respond.

As I have struggled to deal with this situation, several thoughts have really
stuck out: First, when I first heard the news of the attack on Tuesday
morning, my first reaction was a very visceral one - I literally was having
pains in my chest region and felt physically ill. Though I felt the expected
compassion and concern for the direct victims - and began to pray for them,
the first thought association I made was that the pain in my chest was due to
my pain for mankind in general, and bin Laden in particular. I felt
overwhelming sadness and need for prayer - no anger - for the degree of
hatred mankind could feel that someone, namely I felt to be Osama bin Laden,
could WANT to attack this way and then enjoy the results of his work. The
second pain association was the added sadness because it was likely that this
attack may have been done in the name of God.

I felt like what David said in an earlier message, "this might be it." I
felt guilty for perhaps being cynical and a spreader of doom and gloom, but I
felt I could see the progression and realized this may be the beginning of
Armageddon. I have long felt that we are in those end times but I had never
even begun to fathom that the likelihood of war in the Middle East would
involve the US in this direct way! I am not able to see any way that we
can/will NOT respond in kind because we are players in the actions that will
bring in the higher good ultimately.

Cindi, I agree that we have been given a gift by bin Laden. I can see the
wake-up call for us. And it begins first with me - I have had to look at the
"terrorist" within me, the hidden, little pockets of anger, judgement or
unforgiveness I hold in my heart that goes into the mass consciousness. What
about fear and anxiety I am putting out....?

As a country, it seems that we may have already had some little shift in
consciousness. In light of the long-standing battles about separation of
church and state, use of prayer or related materials in schools and public
venues, I have found it very interesting to note just how many times we have
heard the word "prayer" or "God" in the last few days. President Bush asked
for a moment of silence/prayer during his very first address and is now
planning a prayer vigil, I believe. In an effort to show the terrorists that
they could not attack our spirit, members of Congress sang a "patriotic" song
in unison - "God Bless America.". Not one pundit commented on Bush being a
Christian or expressed any semblance of it having seemed out of the norm.
ABC news has repeatedly stated that perhaps prayer is all that one can do in
such times. Isn't it amazing how quietly this little shift has been
demonstrated - that in times of crisis, it is okay while at other times it
has not been okay?

Last night I began to re-visit some of Paul Solomon's Source readings and
this particular reading presented much interesting:

Reading #9400 1/28/91

"Do be careful to remember the words of the Master as he spoke and said,
'what you see in the physical is like seeing the movement of leaves on the
trees. But what you do not see is the wind that moves the leaves.' When you
see the tanks and armour and guns, you are seeing the movement of the leaves.
The real battle is in the air, but not among missiles - in the air in the
sense of being in the subtler dimension of heaven, within you, between you
and about you...

"...Those of you who would change the face of this war must learn that love
is not simply passive. Not in the maner of those who protest against war,
for protesting itself is a negative activity. But those activists against
war who build bonds between men in a meaningful way, one helping another-this
is love in action.

"...Understand it (love) to be as great a force as it is-for there is no
force of darkness which can stand before light...Shining your light in dark
places must first mean the dark places within you. Seeing yourself as you
are, that you might become who you can be-without fearing what you have
contained within you, revealing it so that you might be cleasned as a vessel
for the manifestation of Christ. This is the concern of the battle of
Armageddon!

",,.When you learn to use the mighty power of the swords of angels...when you
can do that, you will understand that there is massive confusion reigning,
even now, as to who is the enemy....It is not the Arab or Muslim world
against the Jews and Christians. It is rather light against darkness. There
is no more light in this western land than there is in the east. Nor is
there more darkness in the heart of the Muslim world than in the heart of the
Christian world.

"...You must understand better the vitality, the energy, the living one that
is love, and know how to apply it. If you can fire love as directly aimed at
the heart of a man as can a missile be directed, then you have understood the
force that is on your side. Not a force of anger and resistance, not a force
that is intended to hurt or destroy.

"...It would not be the first time in history that a dozen have changed the
path of mankind in his course. Let there be a dozen among you who, through
absolute purity, will rejoin with the heaven above and the earth below and
stand in between, as one joined. Then, man will not be fascinated by war,
but will learn of true love...

"...Once you have understood the power or prayer, you have the power to end
this war, to clear and clean the environment, to invoke thought forms that
become available to the minds of men and enter their consciousness as a sign
of peace, rather than the anxiety which makes man seek outside himself for
rescue.

Thank you all for the messages that I am so enjoying. Blessings, Phyllis

[Rosi]

To All, We are One!

My responses to Cindi are embedded in her previous post.

--- In asc2k@y..., cindercran <cindercran@y...> wrote:
> A different, yet similar perspective of all the positive emails
that are
> flowing through the spiritual lists...
>
> Bin Laden has offered us a rare gift.


Rosi: YES! That's the most baffling part my personal response to
this tragedy. I've been confused by my reaction, but it's very
similar to yours. I see Bin Laden and what he allegedly did as an
opportunity to grow and respond and to focus our energies and light
to the task.

>
> Have you ever really looked at that man's eyes? He has very kind
eyes and a
> very gentle nature. I sense that he is here for a purpose and even
though
> we may consider that purpose to be "evil", there is no evil in
energy.
> Energy is energy is energy. Polarity is perception.
>
> Bin Laden is offering us a chance, as a nation, to uplift ourselves
gently
> by making a choice to respond with love and forgiveness rather than
anger
> and fear.
>
> Our responding with anger and fear may well seal our fate, a fate
that is
> totally unnecessary.
>

Rosi: Right! And you know how the nation will respond, I see it
already. War. Those of us who know that the key is in radiation of
love, will do our best to do just that.

> Keep in mind, that we have reached a critical mass. This has been
allowed
> to happen ONLY because it was determined that we had enough people
on the
> side of love that we could possibly overcome the negativity of the
> situation. The choice is ours. The television is full of people
saying
> "kill the bastards". Those are the fear mongers and are only
encouraging
> more fear mongering.

Rosi: You are so right about that! The day it happened I had only
the radio to listen to at work. When I got home, I finally turned on
the television and was horrified to see how the media was portraying
this event...the networks I watched, were pumping the airwaves full
of fear, anger, and promises of war. It made me physically ill to
watch what they were doing. Thankfully, I've personally reached a
level of awareness that protected me from falling into that trap of
fear.
>
> We've been hearing about the "time for making a choice" coming up.
Well
> this is it. I'm sure you all are aware of it, have heard it out the
> yingyang by now and are simply deleting the emails that come to you
with
> words of upliftment. Yadda yadda. It's time to ACT and quit
talking and
> reading email. Does anyone know how to get on TV and get their
thoughts
> aired? Can anyone get their thoughts in a newspaper to let the
masses read
> of another way? The internet is fine, but truthfully, you have to
be
> LOOKING for our love and light in order to run across it. What
about the
> average american that watches Football on Monday, Big Brother on
Tuesday and
> is still internet ignorant, looking at porn rather than
spirituality? How
> many of you dare to join and post to lists that aren't spiritually
related?
>
> It's great that we've all banded together as a unit, it was
necessary. Now
> it's graduation time and our work begins. As citizens of awakened
light, our
> job is to live in love and to speak those words of love and
forgiveness
> every single time that someone either approaches us in fear or
simply asks
> our position on this. We WILL be ostracized, criticized, condemned
as
> fools, rejected as unamerican and persecuted for our beliefs. Sound
> familiar?
>


Rosi: Your vibrations are felt here, and are welcomed. Let's all get
out there and start spreading the love through our thought, word, and
deed!


> Go Forth in love and let your lights shine. No more listening to
words of
> fear and hatred. Actively increase your light and vibrations while
in
> groups, let your life show your nature. Choose your side and then
live it
> and not just talk about it.
>
> This is in no way accusations that most people aren't already doing
that,
> but in every group there are some that do think it's ok to talk and
not to
> act. We all understand that and please if you are not one of those,
don't
> blast me. If you do, it's just your ego feeling guilty anyway! ;)
>
> with love and true understanding,
> cindi

Thank you Cindi and All! With Love and Light,
Rosi

[cindercran]

<table>
<blockquote><tt>Cindi and Rosi, though I have chosen to be an observer since I joined this

group, your messages touched me and caused me to feel I had to respond.



As I have struggled to deal with this situation, several thoughts have really

stuck out: First, when I first heard the news of the attack on Tuesday

morning, my first reaction was a very visceral one - I literally was having

pains in my chest region and felt physically ill. Though I felt the expected

compassion and concern for the direct victims - and began to pray for them,

the first thought association I made was that the pain in my chest was due to

my pain for mankind in general, and bin Laden in particular. I felt

overwhelming sadness and need for prayer - no anger - for the degree of

hatred mankind could feel that someone, namely I felt to be Osama bin Laden,

could WANT to attack this way and then enjoy the results of his work. The

second pain association was the added sadness because it was likely that this

attack may have been done in the name of God.



---------



I've been bashed mightily on other forums, due to my views of love and compassion for all mankind, even the perceived evil ones. I'm wondering how people can say "we're all brothers", and exclue Bin Laden in that statement. Evil, with all it's associations, is still a perception and perceptions are just that and are unique to each individual. We can negate "evil" influences, which are fear based, with love. Love is the great dissipator of fear and he is a very fearful man. He must be very frightened of losing his perceived power. Truly, we are all ONE and some of us just refuse to realize that what we do to one, we do to all. We must do unto others as we would have them do unto us without judgment of the act. He's in pain and deserves our prayers, not our missiles.



---------



I felt like what David said in an earlier message, "this might be it." I

felt guilty for perhaps being cynical and a spreader of doom and gloom, but I

felt I could see the progression and realized this may be the beginning of

Armageddon. I have long felt that we are in those end times but I had never

even begun to fathom that the likelihood of war in the Middle East would

involve the US in this direct way! I am not able to see any way that we

can/will NOT respond in kind because we are players in the actions that will

bring in the higher good ultimately.



-----------

that's exactly right, we're players. Only we can change the outcome by NOT responding in kind. We can find him and punish him and his cohorts without causing World War 3. Our countrymen are for the most part a kind and gentle people, but our president is another matter. He's spreading the fear and the anti-love and it's entirely in his hands at this point.

----------







Cindi, I agree that we have been given a gift by bin Laden. I can see the

wake-up call for us. And it begins first with me - I have had to look at the

"terrorist" within me, the hidden, little pockets of anger, judgement or

unforgiveness I hold in my heart that goes into the mass consciousness. What

about fear and anxiety I am putting out....?



--------

The gift is that we are looking at ourselves and our mortality differently. We are coming to realize that each day is a gift and we have to make more of it than we have been. We are learning to love one another more and easier. We are coming together as a nation in ways that only this type of action would have brought about. Otherwise, it's back to the same old thing, american against american, brother killing brother. Now, at least we're tasting Unity. The fourth dimension that we're travelling rapidly into, is a dimension of Unity. This is but a taste of what the possibilities are.

---------



As a country, it seems that we may have already had some little shift in

consciousness. In light of the long-standing battles about separation of

church and state, use of prayer or related materials in schools and public

venues, I have found it very interesting to note just how many times we have

heard the word "prayer" or "God" in the last few days. President Bush asked

for a moment of silence/prayer during his very first address and is now

planning a prayer vigil, I believe. In an effort to show the terrorists that

they could not attack our spirit, members of Congress sang a "patriotic" song

in unison - "God Bless America.". Not one pundit commented on Bush being a

Christian or expressed any semblance of it having seemed out of the norm.

ABC news has repeatedly stated that perhaps prayer is all that one can do in

such times. Isn't it amazing how quietly this little shift has been

demonstrated - that in times of crisis, it is okay while at other times it

has not been okay?

---------------------

{cindi} Did anyone catch the "suits" in Washington yesterday on the news praying

</tt></blockquote><tt>with the White House Chaplain?



As I recall, the words were... (may not be exact)



"Lord we turn to you today because we have no one else to turn to"

"We pray to you today because we have no one else to pray to"



Does anyone realize the significance of these words??



God is their last resort.

------------------------



</tt><blockquote><tt>



Last night I began to re-visit some of Paul Solomon's Source readings and

this particular reading presented much interesting:



Reading #9400 1/28/91



"Do be careful to remember the words of the Master as he spoke and said,

'what you see in the physical is like seeing the movement of leaves on the

trees. But what you do not see is the wind that moves the leaves.' When you

see the tanks and armour and guns, you are seeing the movement of the leaves.

The real battle is in the air, but not among missiles - in the air in the

sense of being in the subtler dimension of heaven, within you, between you

and about you...



------------



{cindi} as above so below... not merely words.



------------



"...Those of you who would change the face of this war must learn that love

is not simply passive. Not in the maner of those who protest against war,

for protesting itself is a negative activity. But those activists against

war who build bonds between men in a meaningful way, one helping another-this

is love in action.



"...Understand it (love) to be as great a force as it is-for there is no

force of darkness which can stand before light...Shining your light in dark

places must first mean the dark places within you. Seeing yourself as you

are, that you might become who you can be-without fearing what you have

contained within you, revealing it so that you might be cleasned as a vessel

for the manifestation of Christ. This is the concern of the battle of

Armageddon!



",,.When you learn to use the mighty power of the swords of angels...when you

can do that, you will understand that there is massive confusion reigning,

even now, as to who is the enemy....It is not the Arab or Muslim world

against the Jews and Christians. It is rather light against darkness. There

is no more light in this western land than there is in the east. Nor is

there more darkness in the heart of the Muslim world than in the heart of the

Christian world.



"...You must understand better the vitality, the energy, the living one that

is love, and know how to apply it. If you can fire love as directly aimed at

the heart of a man as can a missile be directed, then you have understood the

force that is on your side. Not a force of anger and resistance, not a force

that is intended to hurt or destroy.



"...It would not be the first time in history that a dozen have changed the

path of mankind in his course. Let there be a dozen among you who, through

absolute purity, will rejoin with the heaven above and the earth below and

stand in between, as one joined. Then, man will not be fascinated by war,

but will learn of true love...



"...Once you have understood the power or prayer, you have the power to end

this war, to clear and clean the environment, to invoke thought forms that

become available to the minds of men and enter their consciousness as a sign

of peace, rather than the anxiety which makes man seek outside himself for

rescue.



Thank you all for the messages that I am so enjoying. Blessings, Phyllis



-------------

Peace to you, Phyllis,

cindi

</tt>

</blockquote>

[Gaspar Villegas]

Evil and Good are not equal. You are terribly
misguided if you think that a surgeon never has to cut
cancerous flesh, he can love it away! Moslem
extremists are in this for the long haul in a holy
war. Any weakness perceived by them will only aid and
abett their destruction of our nation! Love to them is
considered a weakness! They want America's destruction
and the Lord God demands that we defend ourself!


--- cindercran <cindercran@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=A-iAtcl5Eu1vomnwYPKeJeQtNviXl-e8-XTJXlWwtv9qq33iECMMKG3osWLpkauPJeVW7UYf-0prw4HLgwvU)> wrote:
> A different, yet similar perspective of all the
> positive emails that are
> flowing through the spiritual lists...
>
> Bin Laden has offered us a rare gift.
>
> Have you ever really looked at that man's eyes? He
> has very kind eyes and a
> very gentle nature. I sense that he is here for a
> purpose and even though
> we may consider that purpose to be "evil", there is
> no evil in energy.
> Energy is energy is energy. Polarity is perception.
>
> Bin Laden is offering us a chance, as a nation, to
> uplift ourselves gently
> by making a choice to respond with love and
> forgiveness rather than anger
> and fear.
>
> Our responding with anger and fear may well seal our
> fate, a fate that is
> totally unnecessary.
>
> Keep in mind, that we have reached a critical mass.
> This has been allowed
> to happen ONLY because it was determined that we had
> enough people on the
> side of love that we could possibly overcome the
> negativity of the
> situation. The choice is ours. The television is
> full of people saying
> "kill the bastards". Those are the fear mongers and
> are only encouraging
> more fear mongering.
>
> We've been hearing about the "time for making a
> choice" coming up. Well
> this is it. I'm sure you all are aware of it, have
> heard it out the
> yingyang by now and are simply deleting the emails
> that come to you with
> words of upliftment. Yadda yadda. It's time to ACT
> and quit talking and
> reading email. Does anyone know how to get on TV
> and get their thoughts
> aired? Can anyone get their thoughts in a newspaper
> to let the masses read
> of another way? The internet is fine, but
> truthfully, you have to be
> LOOKING for our love and light in order to run
> across it. What about the
> average american that watches Football on Monday,
> Big Brother on Tuesday and
> is still internet ignorant, looking at porn rather
> than spirituality? How
> many of you dare to join and post to lists that
> aren't spiritually related?
>
> It's great that we've all banded together as a unit,
> it was necessary. Now
> it's graduation time and our work begins. As
> citizens of awakened light, our
> job is to live in love and to speak those words of
> love and forgiveness
> every single time that someone either approaches us
> in fear or simply asks
> our position on this. We WILL be ostracized,
> criticized, condemned as
> fools, rejected as unamerican and persecuted for our
> beliefs. Sound
> familiar?
>
> Go Forth in love and let your lights shine. No more
> listening to words of
> fear and hatred. Actively increase your light and
> vibrations while in
> groups, let your life show your nature. Choose your
> side and then live it
> and not just talk about it.
>
> This is in no way accusations that most people
> aren't already doing that,
> but in every group there are some that do think it's
> ok to talk and not to
> act. We all understand that and please if you are
> not one of those, don't
> blast me. If you do, it's just your ego feeling
> guilty anyway! ;)
>
> with love and true understanding,
> cindi
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/

[Jeremy Weiland]

> Evil and Good are not equal. You are terribly
> misguided if you think that a surgeon never has to
> cut
> cancerous flesh, he can love it away! Moslem
> extremists are in this for the long haul in a holy
> war. Any weakness perceived by them will only aid
> and
> abett their destruction of our nation! Love to them
> is
> considered a weakness! They want America's
> destruction
> and the Lord God demands that we defend ourself!

A lot of us do not accept those premises and
consequently do not agree with you. If you truly
believe that, you're probably not going to find a very
receptive audience here for war-mongering. I'm not
trying to silence different opinions, but if that is
really how you feel, then you're setting yourself up
for a flame war by posting those types of comments
here.

I'm not going to flame you, but I do think that you
are mistaken. Let us indeed remove the cancer, but
let us first make sure whether it is within us before
cutting open our fellow men (and countries). Also,
your assertion that all Muslims want jihad with us is
erroneous. Muslims are as varied in temperance and
fanatacism as Christians in our country. We have our
fundamentalists and our, well, not so fundamentalists.
If Arabs are united in anything, it is against US
hegemony in the region especially having to do with US
support of Israel's oppression of the Palestinians.

I don't see how you can say that love, to Muslims, is
a weakness. How is hate a strength? What kind of
message will bombing their people to oblivion send
that previous bombing hasn't already sent loud and
clear? Perhaps we shouldn't let down our guard
completely, but it's not fair to imply that we've even
given love a chance, let alone know whether Arabs
would respond to a loving act on the US's part.

God doesn't demand we defend ourselves; the people of
this country do. But if we have a right to be secure
in our country, don't the people in Bosnia, and Iraq,
and Israel, and Panama, and Vietnam, etc.?

And how is bombing innocent people a defense against
terrorism? Isn't that how we provoked this tragedy in
the first place?

It's not simply that love is the answer. It's that,
at this point, there's nothing else left. We can't
rally hatred against a nation - there is not clear
enemy in this conflict. The only people who are going
to lose are Americans, when we start losing our
freedoms in order to fight this war on terrorism that
we've provoked. I understand that feelings of revenge
are normal at a time like this, but shouldn't we make
decisions from a place of rationality, not emotion?

I wish you luck.

Jeremy

__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/

[Rosi]

We must radiate the Light and the Love and as my dear friend
says, "anchor" it here on Earth. We are all One. To me, these
events are the manifestation of our world going into the 4D, in this
case, the negative path. So, as much as we have those following the
negative 4D path or service to self, we also have those vibrating
into the positive path.

I see what has happened as a catalyst. We have been presented yet
another experience from which to learn.

We as One are the creators. What now, do we choose to create?

I don't see Love as a weakness. I see it as the only answer. God is
Love. With Love in my heart, I personally don't think I could ever
answer these questions with more death. But that's my take on
things, and as you know we are all blessed with free-will choice.

Gaspar, I thank you and appreciate your response. You presented an
opportunity for me to look at things through your eyes.

Blessings,
Rosi







--- In asc2k@y..., Gaspar Villegas <u2bsweet2me@y...> wrote:
> Evil and Good are not equal. You are terribly
> misguided if you think that a surgeon never has to cut
> cancerous flesh, he can love it away! Moslem
> extremists are in this for the long haul in a holy
> war. Any weakness perceived by them will only aid and
> abett their destruction of our nation! Love to them is
> considered a weakness! They want America's destruction
> and the Lord God demands that we defend ourself!
>
>
> --- cindercran <cindercran@y...> wrote:
> > A different, yet similar perspective of all the
> > positive emails that are
> > flowing through the spiritual lists...
> >
> > Bin Laden has offered us a rare gift.
> >
> > Have you ever really looked at that man's eyes? He
> > has very kind eyes and a
> > very gentle nature. I sense that he is here for a
> > purpose and even though
> > we may consider that purpose to be "evil", there is
> > no evil in energy.
> > Energy is energy is energy. Polarity is perception.
> >
> > Bin Laden is offering us a chance, as a nation, to
> > uplift ourselves gently
> > by making a choice to respond with love and
> > forgiveness rather than anger
> > and fear.
> >
> > Our responding with anger and fear may well seal our
> > fate, a fate that is
> > totally unnecessary.
> >
> > Keep in mind, that we have reached a critical mass.
> > This has been allowed
> > to happen ONLY because it was determined that we had
> > enough people on the
> > side of love that we could possibly overcome the
> > negativity of the
> > situation. The choice is ours. The television is
> > full of people saying
> > "kill the bastards". Those are the fear mongers and
> > are only encouraging
> > more fear mongering.
> >
> > We've been hearing about the "time for making a
> > choice" coming up. Well
> > this is it. I'm sure you all are aware of it, have
> > heard it out the
> > yingyang by now and are simply deleting the emails
> > that come to you with
> > words of upliftment. Yadda yadda. It's time to ACT
> > and quit talking and
> > reading email. Does anyone know how to get on TV
> > and get their thoughts
> > aired? Can anyone get their thoughts in a newspaper
> > to let the masses read
> > of another way? The internet is fine, but
> > truthfully, you have to be
> > LOOKING for our love and light in order to run
> > across it. What about the
> > average american that watches Football on Monday,
> > Big Brother on Tuesday and
> > is still internet ignorant, looking at porn rather
> > than spirituality? How
> > many of you dare to join and post to lists that
> > aren't spiritually related?
> >
> > It's great that we've all banded together as a unit,
> > it was necessary. Now
> > it's graduation time and our work begins. As
> > citizens of awakened light, our
> > job is to live in love and to speak those words of
> > love and forgiveness
> > every single time that someone either approaches us
> > in fear or simply asks
> > our position on this. We WILL be ostracized,
> > criticized, condemned as
> > fools, rejected as unamerican and persecuted for our
> > beliefs. Sound
> > familiar?
> >
> > Go Forth in love and let your lights shine. No more
> > listening to words of
> > fear and hatred. Actively increase your light and
> > vibrations while in
> > groups, let your life show your nature. Choose your
> > side and then live it
> > and not just talk about it.
> >
> > This is in no way accusations that most people
> > aren't already doing that,
> > but in every group there are some that do think it's
> > ok to talk and not to
> > act. We all understand that and please if you are
> > not one of those, don't
> > blast me. If you do, it's just your ego feeling
> > guilty anyway! ;)
> >
> > with love and true understanding,
> > cindi
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
> Donate cash, emergency relief information
> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/

[Gaspar Villegas]

The beauty of America is that you and I both have
equal rights to express our views. However, do you
notice that I have spoken in civility and compassion
towards your viewpoint no matter how deluded I feel
your premises are! Your point that I would start a
flame war because of my views is a hypocritical
dialectic! I want you to know that I would never flame
anyone because you feel differently about this
subject. Ascension in nature is quite a cathartic and
tremendous affair, seldom does it include a fairy
flight to Tralfamador! I find eschewing emotional
folly, specious sentimentality and spewing verbose
foam, phlegming up in a false pseudo love fest does
not make you ascendant to even a goat. Honesty and
listening with conscious consideration are much more
indicative of ascendency! Despite my fear of war I
have fought war which gave me a great ascendency of
the terrible experience of war! I suggest that you try
listening instead of flaming!



--- Jeremy Weiland <greenlantern113@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=mdZvWsL19mjP01h9ugTPzhXEU0X5DIjW5Pupn6 fXLxrSUuemcMVoEykaj6h_j74v5WAoxHA61DEyS82xGTl_)> wrote:
> > Evil and Good are not equal. You are terribly
> > misguided if you think that a surgeon never has to
> > cut
> > cancerous flesh, he can love it away! Moslem
> > extremists are in this for the long haul in a holy
> > war. Any weakness perceived by them will only aid
> > and
> > abett their destruction of our nation! Love to
> them
> > is
> > considered a weakness! They want America's
> > destruction
> > and the Lord God demands that we defend ourself!
>
> A lot of us do not accept those premises and
> consequently do not agree with you. If you truly
> believe that, you're probably not going to find a
> very
> receptive audience here for war-mongering. I'm not
> trying to silence different opinions, but if that is
> really how you feel, then you're setting yourself up
> for a flame war by posting those types of comments
> here.
>
> I'm not going to flame you, but I do think that you
> are mistaken. Let us indeed remove the cancer, but
> let us first make sure whether it is within us
> before
> cutting open our fellow men (and countries). Also,
> your assertion that all Muslims want jihad with us
> is
> erroneous. Muslims are as varied in temperance and
> fanatacism as Christians in our country. We have
> our
> fundamentalists and our, well, not so
> fundamentalists.
> If Arabs are united in anything, it is against US
> hegemony in the region especially having to do with
> US
> support of Israel's oppression of the Palestinians.
>
>
> I don't see how you can say that love, to Muslims,
> is
> a weakness. How is hate a strength? What kind of
> message will bombing their people to oblivion send
> that previous bombing hasn't already sent loud and
> clear? Perhaps we shouldn't let down our guard
> completely, but it's not fair to imply that we've
> even
> given love a chance, let alone know whether Arabs
> would respond to a loving act on the US's part.
>
> God doesn't demand we defend ourselves; the people
> of
> this country do. But if we have a right to be
> secure
> in our country, don't the people in Bosnia, and
> Iraq,
> and Israel, and Panama, and Vietnam, etc.?
>
> And how is bombing innocent people a defense against
> terrorism? Isn't that how we provoked this tragedy
> in
> the first place?
>
> It's not simply that love is the answer. It's that,
> at this point, there's nothing else left. We can't
> rally hatred against a nation - there is not clear
> enemy in this conflict. The only people who are
> going
> to lose are Americans, when we start losing our
> freedoms in order to fight this war on terrorism
> that
> we've provoked. I understand that feelings of
> revenge
> are normal at a time like this, but shouldn't we
> make
> decisions from a place of rationality, not emotion?
>
> I wish you luck.
>
> Jeremy
>
> __________________________________________________
> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
> Donate cash, emergency relief information
>
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
>


__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/

[Gaspar Villegas]

Dear Rosi,

Thank you for your post! I agree that love is the
answer to the world. But chanting oooohhhhhmmmmm when
the temple is burning to put it our is hardly the
science of a sane man!

One of the greatest, loving sacrifices I have ever
seen was another soldier jumping on a grenade to
protect his platoon in the hole. He gave his love and
life, he paid full price! How many wishy washy love
your neighbor types would serve another human being by
protecting a whole nation with their bodies, heart and
soul? I have seen many a low life grunt give thier all
to save the life of another, "a greater love hath no
man."



--- Rosi <rosibuchanan@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=Jvhi952O_7VUr34ZuVntegrmjkqBOZTf--3pUbZVFNjemo4K2kieBjXRDHYc4KCEIgE-yTaXQU9HDxc6)> wrote:
> We must radiate the Light and the Love and as my
> dear friend
> says, "anchor" it here on Earth. We are all One.
> To me, these
> events are the manifestation of our world going into
> the 4D, in this
> case, the negative path. So, as much as we have
> those following the
> negative 4D path or service to self, we also have
> those vibrating
> into the positive path.
>
> I see what has happened as a catalyst. We have been
> presented yet
> another experience from which to learn.
>
> We as One are the creators. What now, do we choose
> to create?
>
> I don't see Love as a weakness. I see it as the
> only answer. God is
> Love. With Love in my heart, I personally don't
> think I could ever
> answer these questions with more death. But that's
> my take on
> things, and as you know we are all blessed with
> free-will choice.
>
> Gaspar, I thank you and appreciate your response.
> You presented an
> opportunity for me to look at things through your
> eyes.
>
> Blessings,
> Rosi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In asc2k@y..., Gaspar Villegas
> <u2bsweet2me@y...> wrote:
> > Evil and Good are not equal. You are terribly
> > misguided if you think that a surgeon never has to
> cut
> > cancerous flesh, he can love it away! Moslem
> > extremists are in this for the long haul in a holy
> > war. Any weakness perceived by them will only aid
> and
> > abett their destruction of our nation! Love to
> them is
> > considered a weakness! They want America's
> destruction
> > and the Lord God demands that we defend ourself!
> >
> >
> > --- cindercran <cindercran@y...> wrote:
> > > A different, yet similar perspective of all the
> > > positive emails that are
> > > flowing through the spiritual lists...
> > >
> > > Bin Laden has offered us a rare gift.
> > >
> > > Have you ever really looked at that man's eyes?
> He
> > > has very kind eyes and a
> > > very gentle nature. I sense that he is here for
> a
> > > purpose and even though
> > > we may consider that purpose to be "evil", there
> is
> > > no evil in energy.
> > > Energy is energy is energy. Polarity is
> perception.
> > >
> > > Bin Laden is offering us a chance, as a nation,
> to
> > > uplift ourselves gently
> > > by making a choice to respond with love and
> > > forgiveness rather than anger
> > > and fear.
> > >
> > > Our responding with anger and fear may well seal
> our
> > > fate, a fate that is
> > > totally unnecessary.
> > >
> > > Keep in mind, that we have reached a critical
> mass.
> > > This has been allowed
> > > to happen ONLY because it was determined that we
> had
> > > enough people on the
> > > side of love that we could possibly overcome the
> > > negativity of the
> > > situation. The choice is ours. The television
> is
> > > full of people saying
> > > "kill the bastards". Those are the fear mongers
> and
> > > are only encouraging
> > > more fear mongering.
> > >
> > > We've been hearing about the "time for making a
> > > choice" coming up. Well
> > > this is it. I'm sure you all are aware of it,
> have
> > > heard it out the
> > > yingyang by now and are simply deleting the
> emails
> > > that come to you with
> > > words of upliftment. Yadda yadda. It's time to
> ACT
> > > and quit talking and
> > > reading email. Does anyone know how to get on
> TV
> > > and get their thoughts
> > > aired? Can anyone get their thoughts in a
> newspaper
> > > to let the masses read
> > > of another way? The internet is fine, but
> > > truthfully, you have to be
> > > LOOKING for our love and light in order to run
> > > across it. What about the
> > > average american that watches Football on
> Monday,
> > > Big Brother on Tuesday and
> > > is still internet ignorant, looking at porn
> rather
> > > than spirituality? How
> > > many of you dare to join and post to lists that
> > > aren't spiritually related?
> > >
> > > It's great that we've all banded together as a
> unit,
> > > it was necessary. Now
> > > it's graduation time and our work begins. As
> > > citizens of awakened light, our
> > > job is to live in love and to speak those words
> of
> > > love and forgiveness
> > > every single time that someone either approaches
> us
> > > in fear or simply asks
> > > our position on this. We WILL be ostracized,
> > > criticized, condemned as
> > > fools, rejected as unamerican and persecuted for
> our
> > > beliefs. Sound
> > > familiar?
> > >
> > > Go Forth in love and let your lights shine. No
> more
> > > listening to words of
> > > fear and hatred. Actively increase your light
> and
> > > vibrations while in
> > > groups, let your life show your nature. Choose
> your
> > > side and then live it
> > > and not just talk about it.
> > >
> > > This is in no way accusations that most people
> > > aren't already doing that,
> > > but in every group there are some that do think
> it's
> > > ok to talk and not to
> > > act. We all understand that and please if you
> are
> > > not one of those, don't
> > > blast me. If you do, it's just your ego feeling
> > > guilty anyway! ;)
> > >
> > > with love and true understanding,
> > > cindi
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
> > Donate cash, emergency relief information
> >
>
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
>
>


__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/

[Aaron Elder]

hrmm gaspar as long as we do our part to consumate the cycle of hate it will
continue. waging a "war" using military power against an extremely spread
out terrorist network will only result in a few terrorist and possibly many
civilian deaths in a few locations, prompting more retaliatory actions from
other parts of the network. i mean think about it really, the media has been
broadcasting on the news for days now how the Military is going to retaliate
in some form or fashion, with some broadcasts of unit movement. do you
really think that most of the cell in afghanistan is still sitting in the
same spot they were on tuesday? hell, no. all i can see is lots of civilians
getting killed in a missile strike. in my humble opinion the way they should
rectify this situation is mostly through intel. also may i bring up the
point that if they still had Air Marshalls (sp?) on flights then this would
have not happened. am i right that they discontinued that long ago to cut
operating costs? of course it is not a cure for all terrorism but it would
have prevented this. as far as i see it in this situation, corporate greed
is just as much to blame as the terrorists. they gambled with safety for the
sake of a dollar. it is my perception that the established power is using
this incident to whip the populace into a fervor. i kind of get the feeling
that i am in a car, speeding toward a cliff. does the idea of war bother me?
yes, but not for my sake. i am stationed in a location that will not see any
conventional or terrorist action. it bothers me because its a bloodbath that
really does not have to happen, but probably will because both sides are so
damn convinced of their right to take their payment for wrongs suffered in
blood. NEITHER side is innocent. i have said my small piece now, also
gaspar, jeremy was just warning you about a flame war because he is a caring
kind of person. i fail to see how that makes him to be spouting hypocritical
dialect. also what is this statement supposed to mean:
"I find eschewing emotional folly, specious sentimentality and spewing
verbose foam, phlegming up in a false pseudo love fest does
not make you ascendant to even a goat."
I'm getting alot of venom from that statement, it will not have much effect
on here though due to the nature of the readers of this list, love has no
need to explain itself to those who are not a part of it. Have a nice day
Gaspar, and since you think we should go to War, how bout you go reenlist if
you aren't still in.
Aaron


----Original Message Follows----
From: Gaspar Villegas <u2bsweet2me@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=E4_txszdk35BPvJvjMWPGDjQRZv54d4Wgd2SUV KIL8QqhaXnECkcR9WZvLDe8PFaPsJtTpGcGtYbFheFjBGQ9Q)>
Reply-To: asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=0r2Dru9J8enEZFjv7UO8PYLlkLbdssnsl0PCDs 0qDjjwcI0xQuyrr3B-lbfz82Iyf3bJ3k9SYMCrJZaVKGNDoA)
To: asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=0r2Dru9J8enEZFjv7UO8PYLlkLbdssnsl0PCDs 0qDjjwcI0xQuyrr3B-lbfz82Iyf3bJ3k9SYMCrJZaVKGNDoA)
Subject: Re: [asc2k] a rare gift
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 19:08:26 -0700 (PDT)

The beauty of America is that you and I both have
equal rights to express our views. However, do you
notice that I have spoken in civility and compassion
towards your viewpoint no matter how deluded I feel
your premises are! Your point that I would start a
flame war because of my views is a hypocritical
dialectic! I want you to know that I would never flame
anyone because you feel differently about this
subject. Ascension in nature is quite a cathartic and
tremendous affair, seldom does it include a fairy
flight to Tralfamador! I find eschewing emotional
folly, specious sentimentality and spewing verbose
foam, phlegming up in a false pseudo love fest does
not make you ascendant to even a goat. Honesty and
listening with conscious consideration are much more
indicative of ascendency! Despite my fear of war I
have fought war which gave me a great ascendency of
the terrible experience of war! I suggest that you try
listening instead of flaming!



--- Jeremy Weiland <greenlantern113@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=DWmEXepa3TX4H1aLclENw-Tie6znM3azbwSxTKn_dq7YU1WQA9jFrjjlcOlWE73cCG89CCHD yTdcC_7PPAszbCATl_E)> wrote:
> > Evil and Good are not equal. You are terribly
> > misguided if you think that a surgeon never has to
> > cut
> > cancerous flesh, he can love it away! Moslem
> > extremists are in this for the long haul in a holy
> > war. Any weakness perceived by them will only aid
> > and
> > abett their destruction of our nation! Love to
> them
> > is
> > considered a weakness! They want America's
> > destruction
> > and the Lord God demands that we defend ourself!
>
> A lot of us do not accept those premises and
> consequently do not agree with you. If you truly
> believe that, you're probably not going to find a
> very
> receptive audience here for war-mongering. I'm not
> trying to silence different opinions, but if that is
> really how you feel, then you're setting yourself up
> for a flame war by posting those types of comments
> here.
>
> I'm not going to flame you, but I do think that you
> are mistaken. Let us indeed remove the cancer, but
> let us first make sure whether it is within us
> before
> cutting open our fellow men (and countries). Also,
> your assertion that all Muslims want jihad with us
> is
> erroneous. Muslims are as varied in temperance and
> fanatacism as Christians in our country. We have
> our
> fundamentalists and our, well, not so
> fundamentalists.
> If Arabs are united in anything, it is against US
> hegemony in the region especially having to do with
> US
> support of Israel's oppression of the Palestinians.
>
>
> I don't see how you can say that love, to Muslims,
> is
> a weakness. How is hate a strength? What kind of
> message will bombing their people to oblivion send
> that previous bombing hasn't already sent loud and
> clear? Perhaps we shouldn't let down our guard
> completely, but it's not fair to imply that we've
> even
> given love a chance, let alone know whether Arabs
> would respond to a loving act on the US's part.
>
> God doesn't demand we defend ourselves; the people
> of
> this country do. But if we have a right to be
> secure
> in our country, don't the people in Bosnia, and
> Iraq,
> and Israel, and Panama, and Vietnam, etc.?
>
> And how is bombing innocent people a defense against
> terrorism? Isn't that how we provoked this tragedy
> in
> the first place?
>
> It's not simply that love is the answer. It's that,
> at this point, there's nothing else left. We can't
> rally hatred against a nation - there is not clear
> enemy in this conflict. The only people who are
> going
> to lose are Americans, when we start losing our
> freedoms in order to fight this war on terrorism
> that
> we've provoked. I understand that feelings of
> revenge
> are normal at a time like this, but shouldn't we
> make
> decisions from a place of rationality, not emotion?
>
> I wish you luck.
>
> Jeremy
>
> __________________________________________________
> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
> Donate cash, emergency relief information
>
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
>


__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/


__________________________________________________ _______________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Gaspar Villegas]

Dear Aaron,

I do not think that hate is an appropriate emotion
ever. It is not hate or anger that drives my
sentiments and realizations but knowledge and
awareness. As well, men who have to fight the wars are
seldom in a state of hatred of their enemies.
Personally, I have always found admirable qualities in
our enemies and I have never relished in the deaths of
others even our enemies.

I am greatly bemused by your post as you seem to think
that war is an elective where one side calls it quits
and says I won't play and gets away with it! It would
be nice if we actually lived in such a world. I
personally love, even my enemies, for my greatest
enemy is my own ignorance and my enemies have taught
me more about myself than my friends. My enemies have
pushed me to the truth of myself. When they laid dead
at my feet, I cried and cried! But I got back up and
killed some more because they didn't take us seriously
that we were intent on living another day!

We live in a free society that has been earned by the
blood of patriots. If you have travelled much in the
world you will know what I mean. Freedom is never
free! Just because we live in a relatively peaceful,
prosperous and beautiful nation does not mean we will
not have to fight our enemies to keep this country and
to keep our world free! Before it is all over with we
will reinstall the draft. We will have to, our
casualties will be that high!

Read my next post as it will explain our nations
position vis a vis the Moslem Fundamentalists



--- Aaron Elder <karnisov@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=yNguFZhMu92pFBmyYeuL-bRIegghjrD2EmZyFK1dz68g8TaHawa-OzLOXonuKivo81hXTHQi8pJXIFspiQ)> wrote:
> hrmm gaspar as long as we do our part to consumate
> the cycle of hate it will
> continue. waging a "war" using military power
> against an extremely spread
> out terrorist network will only result in a few
> terrorist and possibly many
> civilian deaths in a few locations, prompting more
> retaliatory actions from
> other parts of the network. i mean think about it
> really, the media has been
> broadcasting on the news for days now how the
> Military is going to retaliate
> in some form or fashion, with some broadcasts of
> unit movement. do you
> really think that most of the cell in afghanistan is
> still sitting in the
> same spot they were on tuesday? hell, no. all i can
> see is lots of civilians
> getting killed in a missile strike. in my humble
> opinion the way they should
> rectify this situation is mostly through intel. also
> may i bring up the
> point that if they still had Air Marshalls (sp?) on
> flights then this would
> have not happened. am i right that they discontinued
> that long ago to cut
> operating costs? of course it is not a cure for all
> terrorism but it would
> have prevented this. as far as i see it in this
> situation, corporate greed
> is just as much to blame as the terrorists. they
> gambled with safety for the
> sake of a dollar. it is my perception that the
> established power is using
> this incident to whip the populace into a fervor. i
> kind of get the feeling
> that i am in a car, speeding toward a cliff. does
> the idea of war bother me?
> yes, but not for my sake. i am stationed in a
> location that will not see any
> conventional or terrorist action. it bothers me
> because its a bloodbath that
> really does not have to happen, but probably will
> because both sides are so
> damn convinced of their right to take their payment
> for wrongs suffered in
> blood. NEITHER side is innocent. i have said my
> small piece now, also
> gaspar, jeremy was just warning you about a flame
> war because he is a caring
> kind of person. i fail to see how that makes him to
> be spouting hypocritical
> dialect. also what is this statement supposed to
> mean:
> "I find eschewing emotional folly, specious
> sentimentality and spewing
> verbose foam, phlegming up in a false pseudo love
> fest does
> not make you ascendant to even a goat."
> I'm getting alot of venom from that statement, it
> will not have much effect
> on here though due to the nature of the readers of
> this list, love has no
> need to explain itself to those who are not a part
> of it. Have a nice day
> Gaspar, and since you think we should go to War, how
> bout you go reenlist if
> you aren't still in.
> Aaron
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Gaspar Villegas <u2bsweet2me@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=MBkLN-xKW2_Je3HotzdJDYAMayoui86RbD41-xuquy6-W40znGCZy04Ie3hUuNSxG9VvYYlg0NATGP5wviuS)>
> Reply-To: asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=3BYcpNJVdbVH5JZI46AvpCf-FR3woG6Juh7GnRCn2cCpf8qVSxNE7Yv5T36qT_ygad4R66g2YF ECLeTH)
> To: asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=3BYcpNJVdbVH5JZI46AvpCf-FR3woG6Juh7GnRCn2cCpf8qVSxNE7Yv5T36qT_ygad4R66g2YF ECLeTH)
> Subject: Re: [asc2k] a rare gift
> Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 19:08:26 -0700 (PDT)
>
> The beauty of America is that you and I both have
> equal rights to express our views. However, do you
> notice that I have spoken in civility and compassion
> towards your viewpoint no matter how deluded I feel
> your premises are! Your point that I would start a
> flame war because of my views is a hypocritical
> dialectic! I want you to know that I would never
> flame
> anyone because you feel differently about this
> subject. Ascension in nature is quite a cathartic
> and
> tremendous affair, seldom does it include a fairy
> flight to Tralfamador! I find eschewing emotional
> folly, specious sentimentality and spewing verbose
> foam, phlegming up in a false pseudo love fest does
> not make you ascendant to even a goat. Honesty and
> listening with conscious consideration are much more
> indicative of ascendency! Despite my fear of war I
> have fought war which gave me a great ascendency of
> the terrible experience of war! I suggest that you
> try
> listening instead of flaming!
>
>
>
> --- Jeremy Weiland <greenlantern113@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=-g0iDIesBeiwNZYldYdAuhAqAe9NpSieIYbSNG6sRfII6nLTs2X MQMiLhZbw3oX5J3paiWg5cxXnrjhpDO1lWyXv)>
> wrote:
> > > Evil and Good are not equal. You are terribly
> > > misguided if you think that a surgeon never has
> to
> > > cut
> > > cancerous flesh, he can love it away! Moslem
> > > extremists are in this for the long haul in a
> holy
> > > war. Any weakness perceived by them will only
> aid
> > > and
> > > abett their destruction of our nation! Love to
> > them
> > > is
> > > considered a weakness! They want America's
> > > destruction
> > > and the Lord God demands that we defend
> ourself!
> >
> > A lot of us do not accept those premises and
> > consequently do not agree with you. If you truly
> > believe that, you're probably not going to find a
> > very
> > receptive audience here for war-mongering. I'm
> not
> > trying to silence different opinions, but if that
> is
> > really how you feel, then you're setting yourself
> up
> > for a flame war by posting those types of
> comments
> > here.
> >
> > I'm not going to flame you, but I do think that
> you
> > are mistaken. Let us indeed remove the cancer,
> but
> > let us first make sure whether it is within us
> > before
> > cutting open our fellow men (and countries).
> Also,
> > your assertion that all Muslims want jihad with
> us
> > is
> > erroneous. Muslims are as varied in temperance
> and
> > fanatacism as Christians in our country. We have
> > our
> > fundamentalists and our, well, not so
> > fundamentalists.
> > If Arabs are united in anything, it is against
> US
> > hegemony in the region especially having to do
> with
> > US
> > support of Israel's oppression of the
> Palestinians.
> >
> >
> > I don't see how you can say that love, to
> Muslims,
> > is
> > a weakness. How is hate a strength? What kind
> of
> > message will bombing their people to oblivion
> send
> > that previous bombing hasn't already sent loud
> and
> > clear? Perhaps we shouldn't let down our guard
> > completely, but it's not fair to imply that we've
> > even
> > given love a chance, let alone know whether Arabs
> > would respond to a loving act on the US's part.
> >
> > God doesn't demand we defend ourselves; the
> people
> > of
> > this country do. But if we have a right to be
> > secure
> > in our country, don't the people in Bosnia, and
> > Iraq,
> > and Israel, and Panama, and Vietnam, etc.?
> >
> > And how is bombing innocent people a defense
> against
> > terrorism? Isn't that how we provoked this
> tragedy
> > in
> > the first place?
> >
> > It's not simply that love is the answer. It's
> that,
> > at this point, there's nothing else left. We
> can't
> > rally hatred against a nation - there is not
> clear
> > enemy in this conflict. The only people who are
>
=== message truncated ===


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