Official Response to "The Great Play" [Archive]

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David Wilcock

12-14-2000, 07:09 PM

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Dear Stewart,<xml:namespace prefix="o" ns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"></xml:namespace><o:p></o:p>
Merry Christmas. I’m sorry that it’s not going to work out. I truly surround you with light and wish you well if this was a true representation of your gift to us as a prospective new member. 
When I started reading this I realized that I would need to delegate some of my time to addressing this situation, now approximatelytwo hours.This is my response, given with consideration evenin the middle ofmy inability to actively participate on this list due to the heavy deadline I am attempting to uphold in the completion of my latest book. This deadline, by the way, should be able to be realized, based on my progress at present. 
I want you all out there to benefit from the time I am spending now in preparation of this document Convergence III. I apologize for these distractions and regret that if they continue, we may be forced to go to a moderated list. 
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And so, Stewart, withsincere apology I must inform you that you are clearly in violation of the spam rule that is intrinsic to this and all other Egroups lists, since this is obviously a religious advertisement for an organization that is trying to recruit new members and has "charged" you with the task. And early along in our archives you will see another case where I was forced to respond in this way. 
Spam is illegal on Egroups and could not only get us shut down, but put me in a position of being legally responsible for paying damages as a result. I am not blowing this out of proportion, merely enforcing the policies as they stand in the professional guidelines that have already been posted to this list. <o:p></o:p>
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If anyone on this list wants to adhere to the teachings of the group that Stewart has resonated with (a group thatremains unidentified at this point,) and seeks to obtain further information, please do so by private Email. I wish Stewart's group and its messengers wellness on their path and hereby refuse their service as not being useful to our forum at this time. Permission is denied to send further attachments or include them in an Email to this group, and we will permanently remove youfrom our list if our policy is violated again. <o:p></o:p>
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If we don’t work together and accept each other in love, then we have accomplished nothing. Divisive material is not welcome here, by virtue of what is best for the greater good. If you resonate with this material then you should ask yourself why you are so angry at the world. The document shows excessive hatred - which ultimately is the exemplification of one who feels themselves victimized, tangentially by the Earth and its inhabitants but ultimately by God. 
In my humble, human opinion as a fellow student of the One, there’s some very fundamental soul work that needs to be done here and that’s going to have to be between you and Christ, based on your belief structures as indicated. If you would like to approach us as a brother, as an equal, and discuss and process your anger and frustration with the "Cosmic Plan" in a healthy, non-dogmatic way without attacking or pointing a finger, we may be able to assist you. 
I have included a document that points out what I feel are the most telling indicators ofthisgroup's ideological motivations. I have included commentswith a spirit of humor to offset the ultra-serious, doom and gloom intensity of the work itself.In this case, humor is the most effective way to step away from the work itself for a time and see things from a different slant. 
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Peace be with you –<o:p></o:p>
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- David<o:p></o:p>
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…the majority of the 'saved', the self-professed 'elect of God' encourage the great imitation in their naÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂ ÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃ ÂÃÂÃÂÃÂ¯ve and self-seeking attitudes and furor. <o:p></o:p>
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Examples of various aspects of the great play so far are: numerous appearances of the Virgin Mary (as in Fatima much earlier this century), the mysterious crucifixes that are being observed appearing in glass windows, various Christian stigmatists all over the world doing their thing, various Maitreya- or Christ-appearance hoaxes complete with miracles (which any good black magician can perform), a popular Indian 'Avatar': the actual physical manifestation of the 'Second Coming' (as millions of blind devotees are convinced), multifarious other false gurus and masters too numerous to mention, the evacuation / ascension plan promised and promoted by extraterrestrials in spaceships as a part of the proliferating antics of various ET-species and UFO activities in their interference with the Earth and humanity, the crop-circle frenzy, the sensational and thus very popular merkabah-breathing techniques and sacred geometry of various New Age teachers that are leading many thousands of sincere aspirants astray, the abundant DNA-healing and light-body activation methods, Reiki, countless other personal healing modalities and a seductive assortment of other ideas and plans that are all inspired from the reflection sphere; the list is endless.
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We may now ask: What retards the execution of the plan for world unification? The answer is, as has already been said, the general dissension amongst humanity.<o:p></o:p>
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[D: If dissension is the problem, then how can it be solved by separating everyone else as being unfit and declaring yourself to be the sole elect “chosen”? Circulating this document is an exercise in anger more than anything else, as its attitude is “my way or the highway” even as it makes statements such as those above.]
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Aside from the sham, so-called New Age movement which has today become very successful as far as the dualistic hierarchy is concerned, the present transmutation processes of the masses generate excessive chemical-ether* and life-ether, and a great amount of reflecting-ether of a very dubious quality, but very little pure light-ether is produced.<o:p></o:p>
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First of all, that a large-scale new propaganda has been launched since the sixties, and which has today become generally known as the New Age movement. This movement advocates en mass: peace-meditations and prayers, invocations to the angels, masters, etc., and various other techniques of evoking Heaven on Earth. It is not difficult to see how such activities are merely modern imitations of the older religious methods of producing light-ethers of a sufficient concentration and quality to feed the denizens of the reflection sphere. <o:p></o:p>
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[D: Rephrased, this says, “Don’t try to help the planet’s vibrations by meditating for world peace; you’re simply going to be power food for negative beings.”]
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Yet so few are aware of this in the world today, and so very few want to know, since most adherents of the New Age movement have become entirely spellbound by the synergetic glamour that is magically issued forth from the reflection sphere and which provides psychic stimulation and comfortable delusion for so many. These unsuspecting victims of invisible vampirism proceed upon their false ways with blind conviction under the erroneous notion that they are serving the Masters of the Christ-Hierarchy. However, such counterfeit spirituality only serves to feed the plan of the antichrist, to create more karmic bindings and to further the great play, simultaneously leading the masses farther and farther away from any chance of attaining Liberation from the universe of death.<o:p></o:p>
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[D: Yep, I guess anyone who studies anything spiritual other than this document is spellbound in comfortable delusion of feeding the anti-Christ, moving away from any chance of attaining liberation from the “universe of death.” Guess what guys: by circulating this document, by definition, you’ve formed and are trying to perpetuate a cult.]
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When an entire planetary race attempts to realise Life in an emergency order, either on this or on the other side of the veil, then the destiny of that race will hasten toward a conclusion; then life, as it is known in the fallen world, is eventually demolished by the irresistible workings of fundamental cosmic-radiation laws that affect both spheres of dualistic existence.
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[D: Rephrased: “If you don’t follow our teachings your soul will be demolished.”]<o:p></o:p>
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Under the irresistible unfoldment of this threatening calamity and due to the lack of light-ether connected with it, the reflection-sphere hierarchy is staging the great play of which we are duly forewarning everybody who we are able to reach and who is willing to listen. But, at the same time, the ultimate disaster is inevitable; it must ensue as a discharge of the existing and still increasing unnatural tensions of the world.<o:p></o:p>
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[D: Rephrased: “If you don’t follow our teachings you will experience the ultimate disaster.”]<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-bottom-alt: dotted windowtext 3.0pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in">Now, there exist certain laws that provide regularity to the mechanism of the Omniverse, and these are the radiation laws to which we referred earlier. Throughout the entire dualistic universe the radiation laws regulate the living conditions of all entities and the great respirational processes of the stars and planets, of the planetary and zodiacal systems. One might speak of a gigantic clockwork that indicates the course of things in the order of time and space, and from which nothing and no one may escape. Everyone must submit himself to these cyclic radiation laws that govern the entire Creation. Therefore, it is evident that the possibilities whereby a Gnostic group may follow and reach its aim, also answer to such laws, and it should be understood that when a Gnostic body submits itself exactly according to the indications of the radiation laws, then this group will be able to travel its way and reach the aim of the Path, without any hindrance, without any obstacle. Obeisance to universal law guarantees success.<o:p></o:p>
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Let us now give a summary of the facts that we have established thus far.<o:p></o:p>
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[D: Facts.]<o:p></o:p>
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Mankind on Earth is a slave-race, born into slavery to the archons and aeons; the vast majority of human beings today - in their ignorance of the real situation on Earth - are but pawns in Lucifer's chess-game.<o:p></o:p>
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…the world will be set on fire… We have no intention whatever to arouse fear.<o:p></o:p>
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Once again: take no sides! Be not drawn in and so do not perish in any intoxication. On the contrary, envelope all men, all mankind in your unconditional love, reinforced by true Knowledge and so right understanding.<o:p></o:p>
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Should these forewarnings move you in some way… then do decide right away… [to make] an enthusiastic and uncompromising effort to go the Path of Liberation in selfless spiritual service to the agonising soul of mankind.<o:p></o:p>
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[D: Rephrased: “Yes, don’t they all look so agonizing. What a disgusting lot, that human race. Let’s give them selfless spiritual service, by showing them that they must follow our teachings.”]
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And why are the foul spirits of the fallen world-order like frogs? Well, they have plenty of jaw! They make a lot of noise in the dark night and they croak incessantly! So the frogs of the State, the Church and the world in general, together with all the pseudo-spiritual efforts of the world, all the religious croaking, will presently - when the catastrophes break out in their full magnitude - drive men to their churches or New Age gatherings again; and the production of light-ether for the abnormal reflection-sphere entities will be greatly stimulated. Indeed, this is already happening, especially amidst the New Age movement.
<o:p></o:p>
[D: Rephrased: “If you try to gather with any others and you don’t follow our teachings in your worship, you’re just another frog who has prepared a tasty energy meal for Lucifer.”]<o:p></o:p>
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The fact that you are reading this and understanding it together with the fact that you have been brought into physical-plane contact with a genuine Earthly outpost for the Christine Hierarchy is a testimony that you have been charged.<o:p></o:p>
[D: Rephrased: “Come on now, if you want our cult to survive you’d better convince everyone else how right we are.”]

Stewart Conor

12-14-2000, 08:43 PM

--- David Wilcock <djw333@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=ymUJbPytamccdUO9_gJJL-L-tljvUYh2H8frBzDmVNCFe3ARaiPxQj0sxgYSblslxrMkeVp0MP A)> wrote:
> Dear Stewart,
>
> Merry Christmas. I'm sorry that it's not going to
> work out. I truly surround you with light and wish
> you well if this was a true representation of your
> gift to us as a prospective new member.

<snip>

Thank you, David, for taking the time to review the
previous impersonal esoteric facts.

May I just say: "Those with eyes to see, let them
see."

I perceive no hatred etc. in The Great Play, just
IMPERSONAL TRUTH. The impersonal Truth is anathema to
the self-maintaing ego, yet it is the impersonal Truth
that sets us free. Conversely there is soooo much of
'I' in New Age thinking today, e.g., MY spiritual
development, MY healing, My ascension, etc, etc. Such
a PERSONAL focus, however - since it feeds the forces
of ego (darkness) - will never avail one of the Living
Truth, which is necessarily IMPERSONAL, for it applies
to all alike. The only way that one may ascend (i.e.,
return to God) is by selfless, INTELLIGENT loving
activity, which necessarily must include the
application of pure Gnostic Knowledge - the Teaching
of the Avatars. No amount of speculation and
self-identification (e.g., future ascension for
ME)will guide us Home, not in this round or any other,
for what we focus upon grows.

The impersonal Truth ever acts like a mirror, and was
the reason that Jesus, the piscean Christ, was
crucified, Buddha poisoned and so many martyrs
murdered throughout history.

"Men love not the light, for it reveals their
wickedness; men love the dark." - Jesus.

The Great Play contains certain esoteric truths that
have, in the past, only been given to Initiates who
managed to gain entrance to the genuine divine Mystery
Schools. These mature souls had recognised the futile
plight of the 'I' and were ready to receive the
impersonal Truth: Grace. I have shared the article
with you all since, as you know, we are in the "end
times".

The unnamed group from which the article is sourced
have a very tight outer circle; they are definitely
NOT seeking to recruit unprepared personalities and so
penetrating their outer circle is not easy, and for
very good reasons!

"Those with ears to hear, let them hear."

I offer these comments in earnest. It was not my
intention to upset anyone on this forum. However, as
history attests, the impersonal Truth have ever been
unwelcome to most upon Earth, the dark planet.

BTW, David, humility is not thinking meekly of oneself
(i.e., "In my humble opinion"); true Humilty is NOT
THINKING OF ONESELF AT ALL.

I think that it might be expedient for me to
unsubscribe myself from this forum.

Thank you for your time.

In good faith.

Stewart

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/

Jeremy Weiland

12-14-2000, 10:27 PM

>The Great Play contains certain esoteric truths that
>have, in the past, only been given to Initiates who
>managed to gain entrance to the genuine divine Mystery
>Schools. These mature souls had recognised the futile
>plight of the 'I' and were ready to receive the
>impersonal Truth: Grace. I have shared the article
>with you all since, as you know, we are in the "end
>times".

David, I know you don't have time to carry on this thread, so I hope I'm
not saying anything that you feel you would need to correct.
I think the point of David's critique was that, although there are some
elements of truth in "The Great Play", the general feeling and seeming
"thrust" of the document seems to be one of engendering fear and a panicked
aquiesence to the views of a group that none of us know to much about
anyway.
At the risk of provoking David ;-) I will say that the ideas about
"I-ness" were quite interesting to me. Coming from a "Course in Miracles"
background, the idea of the individual self being undesirable (and being an
enemy to be fought) was one of the first real spiritual/philosophic ideas
that I ever tackled on my "path."
(Warning: I'm gonna bring up the Ra material again)
One of the things that I found really interesting about the Ra
material's perspective, and I may be misunderstanding this, is the idea of a
lot of the nature of reality for us here is not so much to be "overcome" and
fought against as to be experienced and used as catalyst when possible. The
purpose of our being on earth is to polarize enough to make "the choice;" if
we figure out the secret to the whole game here, then great, but it's not
the main purpose (i.e. Ra's saying "we can't all be geniuses").
Q'uo, which is another entity that is channelled by L/L research and
whose readings are on the L/L website, talks a lot about what we can
reasonably be expected to accomplish spiritually on this plane, which is
comforting. We're not expected to completely lose our identities to the
oneness while in 3D (though I suppose it is possible, I most entities
usually wait till 6D, right?)... although it is our destiny, the sense of
I-ness serves us now in our learning. It's kinda like what I was talking
about with ascension; as long as we're learning and experiencing, we're
doing what we're supposed to, and we'll get where we need to go as soon as
we need to.
What d'yall think?
Love and light,
Jeremy

David Wilcock

12-15-2000, 08:49 AM

<table bgColor="#ffffff">
>Jeremy, you are an excellent student of the One in your own right. Thank you for expressing simply and with eloquence. The reason why we mention Ra so much is simple; the vibration is very high and there is profound self-realization to be mined from its contents. Anyone can go digging and find some very useful tools in there. 
>
>Do I request / demand / offer the opportunity for "obeisance?" No. And if you're inclined that way,you've got the wrong guy.People put me on pedestals and I remove the pedestal, reminding them that I am no saint, I did the same things that you may not have forgiven yourself for yet in your own life. It's your free will, friend, and it will always be. 
>
>If Ra doesn't suit you, no one is going to rise up and condemn you or say that you are not on the path. Just be nice! That's the whole point of getting through the third density. Just be nice. Check your hate at the door and treat us as equals, not as blind seekers of Truth who are waiting for your Light to save us from the gaping maw of spiritualdeath. Lucifer is called the "light bringer" in many secret societies, but you've got to really work your way throughthem for a long time before you'll find that part out.
>
>It's true, I don't have time to tinker with this issue much more - but I will kick in a few more points for good measure and to warm up my chops for another 14-hour writing marathon / party / experience. I'm REALLY enjoying myself lately - the book is turning into an incredible thing. Sentences channel in, intuition guides the research and the result is absolutely worth every minute of this sabbatical that I have taken. It's a lot of fun. 
>
>Now if you accept at face value what came through the L/L Research group, then you would know that Ra was the originator of all the Atlantean secret societies in the first place! But as they said, serious distortions accrued over time. And folks, "there ain't no way" that Carla could have consciously fabricated an entirely consistent model of aetheric science and dance circles around aPh.D. physicist all the while in the most agonizingly technical areas - a model that even now continues to reveal new discoveries for everyone. I love Carla and she is a wonderful person but Ra is not Carla, although it certainly seems that she is a wanderer from their collective. And Ra's words reveal incredible professionalism and integrity - wonderful guidelines for anyone who is trying to "go the distance" in their spiriutal growth process.
>
>I do not dismiss the fact that the writer of "Great Play" is a highly intelligent, verbally articulate person who has studied and absorbed a lot of information. I did pick up a few new Gnostic buzzwords from it, but mainly I sawan opportunity to study a document that contained service to self snugly hidden within it and quite easily rooted out for public view.
>
>Please, if some of you care, just go study Part Seven of the Ra Material Study Guide again, and look up the information on Orion groups. It will put this response in context.[Wow - 11:11 on the clock there.]
>
>If a group wants to denounce others, act as a "tight-knit secret society" and spout venom at everyone on Earth who is spiritually inclined, whether mainstream, New Age or otherwise, then we're not playing. The doors are open but please don't puke on the carpet! Don't take away the dish of your favorite foodfrom the smogasbord and ignore everything else, there might be others who want sometoo, and you might find that youactually enjoy thetaste ofwhat we've set out for the party. 
>
>The minute you think you're elite and can claim Truth that automatically knocks other people down, you've entered the negative polarity. Better yet, the document builds in a very lengthy section at the beginning that causes the reader to expect a negative response from others - thereby nullifying any points that could be made about the manuscript itself. It works like this: when the inevitable response is produced in others, the person then says, "See, I told you, all the greatest teachers are spurned by humanity. I'm just like Jesus now, no one will understand me. All those frogs are gonna burn, baby, burn." In reality, it is quite sad. 
>
>Almost nowhere in the document is there any mention of how to serve others or show compassion. Service to self is when you pitch something in front of someone else, expect them to believe it totally and completely and condemn them if they don't, and then say, "See, I'm helping people." Remember that the service to self polarity has a great love of self - and that's about all the love you're going to get in this document. You'll learn that you're right and everyone else is wrong and you're the only guy who is going to heaven. What a bummer for the rest of the world - a big cosmic wastepaperbasket. 
>
>For our perspective, I would hope that everyone recognize that the material we offer on the site is intended to be used as you see fit. The Convergence series is fusing together a massive amount of data that to me has a very common, logical thread moving through it. If you read it and use some of the information to cook up a cult, that's your free will and I can't stop you, but I won't endorse it either. 
>
>As we have always said and Jeremy put so nicely, the "first distortion" of the Law of One is free will. Abrograte free will and you've missed the point. So for gosh sake, live and let live. I think that the idea of the above-50% service to others polarity being the bottom vibrational line makes a lot of sense. There are many different ways to do that. It is very synchronistic to me that I had been writing about this exact point for the new Chapter Two of Convergence III when this first came in. I encourage people to study Ra simply because it can really take you a long way.
>
>I was happy to find out that Dr. Mandelker's show is being re-aired on Rense tonight - proof that it stands out in a crowd over so many other shows. Itis interesting that this would happen so soon after his colleague (myself) called in on a program about an upcoming dimensional shift! What he said in the transcript that I posted is a perfect articulation of the essence of Ra's teachings and how to live in the positive polarity. People are GETTING IT. 
>
>Peace be with you -
>
>- David
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: Jeremy Weiland (jweiland@nettalon.com)
style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: asc2k@egroups.com
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 1:27 AM
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: Re: [asc2k] Official Response to "The Great Play"
>
<tt>>The Great Play contains certain esoteric truths that
>have, in the past, only been given to Initiates who
>managed to gain entrance to the genuine divine Mystery
>Schools. These mature souls had recognised the futile
>plight of the 'I' and were ready to receive the
>impersonal Truth: Grace. I have shared the article
>with you all since, as you know, we are in the "end
>times".

David, I know you don't have time to carry on this thread, so I hope I'm
not saying anything that you feel you would need to correct.
I think the point of David's critique was that, although there are some
elements of truth in "The Great Play", the general feeling and seeming
"thrust" of the document seems to be one of engendering fear and a panicked
aquiesence to the views of a group that none of us know to much about
anyway.
At the risk of provoking David ;-) I will say that the ideas about
"I-ness" were quite interesting to me. Coming from a "Course in Miracles"
background, the idea of the individual self being undesirable (and being an
enemy to be fought) was one of the first real spiritual/philosophic ideas
that I ever tackled on my "path."
(Warning: I'm gonna bring up the Ra material again)
One of the things that I found really interesting about the Ra
material's perspective, and I may be misunderstanding this, is the idea of a
lot of the nature of reality for us here is not so much to be "overcome" and
fought against as to be experienced and used as catalyst when possible. The
purpose of our being on earth is to polarize enough to make "the choice;" if
we figure out the secret to the whole game here, then great, but it's not
the main purpose (i.e. Ra's saying "we can't all be geniuses").
Q'uo, which is another entity that is channelled by L/L research and
whose readings are on the L/L website, talks a lot about what we can
reasonably be expected to accomplish spiritually on this plane, which is
comforting. We're not expected to completely lose our identities to the
oneness while in 3D (though I suppose it is possible, I most entities
usually wait till 6D, right?)... although it is our destiny, the sense of
I-ness serves us now in our learning. It's kinda like what I was talking
about with ascension; as long as we're learning and experiencing, we're
doing what we're supposed to, and we'll get where we need to go as soon as
we need to.
What d'yall think?
Love and light,
Jeremy

</tt>

<tt>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com

</tt>
</blockquote>

SgtPppr

12-15-2000, 09:04 AM

Is it in fact an ascension blocker if you are "negative"? From what I got
from the Ra material, it seems that both positive and negative will
ascend, just to different places. If one was enlightened, yet
self-serving, would they not also pass into the 4th density? I'm not sure
that "good" and "evil" really have much meaning in this density. What
seems more important is the mind set that there is more than what we see
with our physical eyes and searching for this unseen can be beneficial
whether that search is fulled by self-service or service to others. I'm
currently writing a book that I feel will be a catalyst in many people's
own self-realization. I am doing it for others as well as for myself. I
wouldn't mind being rich from the book or being a celebrity, though they
aren't the purpose of the book. Would I be considered to be "negative"
then? Either way, is being "negative" worse than being nothing at all?

Steve DeVries
Lifeguard of the Gene Pool
http://www.immaculatedreams.com

.:;o==--
,o888P`
,o888P`
.o8888` .
o8888' ^8L.
.o888P `888.
.o888P `888o.
.o8888 `8888.
o8888^ '8888.
88888 SgtPppr `8888.
.88888 8888o
.8888o spdevrie@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=GUKK4rWf5s2iwnDPnDg51DgGxlW8g9AHthp6SS PY7jEUmYKIi3RNgb399Q8mUeRwvU4me1AFf1_55QgP) 8888P
88888 8888^
^8888,www.immaculatedreams.com .8888
88888. .8888'
'88888 .8888'
'88888. 888^
`88888. .88^
`8888o. .o^`
'*8888.
'^*88o.
^*''`

"We are going to look at something
here; in a different way, from a
different angle, under a different
light; and if we look at it under
that different light, and from
that different angle, maybe we'll
see it as if it's the first time."
-MJK

Jeremy Weiland

12-15-2000, 01:47 PM

SgtPppr wrote:
>Is it in fact an ascension blocker if you are "negative"? From what I got
>from the Ra material, it seems that both positive and negative will
>ascend, just to different places. If one was enlightened, yet
>self-serving, would they not also pass into the 4th density? I'm
I think you hit on an interesting point that is frequently stressed in
the Ra material, but doesn't get as much attention over on this side (i.e.
asc2k's material). During the L/L contact, Ra went to great lengths to
correct Don (the questioner) when he tried to insinuate that one polarity
was less desirable than another. Although Ra seemed to say that the
positive polarity was more efficient, both are acceptable, and the One
Infinite Creator, and the Law of One, are open to both polarities without
prejudice or exception. It seems important to me for those on the path to
understand this, as understanding this point is the most effective way to
understanding what sts and sto actually *mean*, and what reality really is,
and where we fall in it.
However, it seems to me that, while Ra had to maintain a neutrality and
tell the whole story, David is obviously sto and his work is best integrated
by one on the sto path. It wouldn't do much good for him to work on
assisting those on the sts path (and check the Ra material to see what this
would entail if he attempted it: pretty much slavery!).
At least the way I have justified it to myself (and I say it like that
b/c I have asked myself similar questions about Ra's sto bias in the Wilcock
readings and lack of bias in the L/L material) is that the nature of the
Wilcock contact w/ Ra is fundamentally different than the nature of the L/L
contact w/ Ra. Ra seems to speak through Wilcock as a guide for him to
complete work that he has agreed to do here, while the L/L group was merely
on a question and answer basis with Ra in their contact. They were simply
trying to find the principles of this whole view of reality, which makes
David's work possible after all, but they had no specific goal to achieve,
nor any specific change to affect upon the planet like David does. So it's
hard to treat both contacts on the same level. They even *sound* different.
Obviously, the Ra that speaks thru David has a desire to have as great a
sto harvest as possible. I suspect this is because this is a more efficient
path (which even the L/L Ra admitted) but not because it is the "right"
path. There are plenty of negative entities trying to increase the negative
harvest (a daunting task, since I believe the rate for a negative entity to
be harvested is 90% sts), which is of no concern to us, if I understand all
this stuff about polarity. The problem is the vast majority of people who
haven't made the choice yet of which path to follow, which way to polarize,
who are close to being harvested one way or another and who risk not
polarizing sufficiently and having to repeat 3D. So people like David are
here to provide catalyst to great numbers of people to help them polarize
and thereby ascend/ be harvested (are these terms interchangeable?).
Ooooh, this is good stuff. Gets the brain juices flowing... what d'yall
think? Am I totally off my rocker?
Take care,
Jeremy

"Life, he said, is all about style... and my flying machine!"
- The Disco
Biscuits

Brian V. Cox

12-15-2000, 02:01 PM

dude...i cant believe another disco biscuits fan is on this ASC2K group...

i've seen them about 20 times (first show 12/29/97) and i'm pretty good
friends with them. my band has opened for them both times they've played
texas.

i cant believe the synchronicities i've been encountering lately..

i actually sent an email to david right before halloween trying to get
him to go to the halloween biscuits show in virginia. (i flew out to
that show)...

i really think that the biscuits are onto something too...

i should send you some of my band's music..

later..

ps. you going to new years? i'll be at the last 3 shows...i'd love to
talk to someone else that's been reading david's material.

--------------
Brian Cox - brian@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=JeQNnWF1R1fVvVHtkSFfn6vX4ocv6slvAUaz0A Xi0mjGR_yZKSP1lZy4b7zuI2W7s-IW1o7wQzkn)
**MAGPU** Music for your mind: http://www.magpu.com
"Yawlurjazz!!!" - Poor David, 7/1/98

Brian V. Cox

12-15-2000, 02:03 PM

please disregard my previous email...that was supposed to be a private
email...i didnt realize the "reply-to" of this list was set to the list,
not the poster.

really sorry about that...it is very strange that such a small band has
touched two people independently that ended being interested in david's
work...

--------------
Brian Cox - brian@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=P0ZttzJ-TjrVNKCYKVURR-anGWv-rvFEcKhnxlY8YHcd7VayOrs2RLkfKyVvqeyLP_hGWY6ekg)
**MAGPU** Music for your mind: http://www.magpu.com
"Yawlurjazz!!!" - Poor David, 7/1/98

SgtPppr

12-15-2000, 02:15 PM

On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Jeremy Weiland wrote:

> SgtPppr wrote:
> >Is it in fact an ascension blocker if you are "negative"? From what I got
> >from the Ra material, it seems that both positive and negative will
> >ascend, just to different places. If one was enlightened, yet
> >self-serving, would they not also pass into the 4th density? I'm
> I think you hit on an interesting point that is frequently stressed in
> the Ra material, but doesn't get as much attention over on this side (i.e.
> asc2k's material). During the L/L contact, Ra went to great lengths to
> correct Don (the questioner) when he tried to insinuate that one polarity
> was less desirable than another. Although Ra seemed to say that the
> positive polarity was more efficient, both are acceptable, and the One
> Infinite Creator, and the Law of One, are open to both polarities without
> prejudice or exception. It seems important to me for those on the path to
> understand this, as understanding this point is the most effective way to
> understanding what sts and sto actually *mean*, and what reality really is,
> and where we fall in it.

What I see as much of the problem with many of the followers of the Ra
material is the fact that they tend to forget that the actual polarity of
the person (sts or sto) is not that important, only that they actually
polarize. For some reason or dualist way of thinking condemns us to
thinking of everything as "good" or "evil". A magnet has two poles,
positive and negative, but is the positive side "good" and the negative
pole "evil"? A lot of these ideas are convuluted though due to the fact
that New Age tends to drift towards finding your own path and that truth
is relative to that person's own search. This is service to self defined.

Would the group think of me as negative if I said that much of the time I
feel bad for mankind and see it is a further stagnating cess pool? I
think there is so much beauty and love in the world, but as a whole,
mankind is stagnating as it approaches the harvest. Mankind still wants
to cling to its third density existence. We want to be sold our truth in
easy to open carboard wrapping from television personalities and holywood
(yes, I spelled that right) celebrities. Our new heaven is Holywood and
our gods are actors/actresses. Mankind as a whole seems to seek some form
of numbness against the feelings associated with our coming harvest. It's
almost as if people know inside something is coming, but refuse to
acknowledge it.

Are these negative ideas? Are they "evil"? Without a doubt I feel I will
ascend when the harvest comes, but I don't feel many of our fellow
primates will. Though I don't want people to abide by a set of rules or
believe a certain set of ideas just because I think that way, but I am
nearly militant on making people just THINK for a change. It makes me
sick to my stomach to see people believe what they do just because their
parents said it was that way or because it alleviates the need to search
for more.

Our warped views of "good" and "evil" are merely a symptom of the current
third density state, but we have to also see them for what they are. The
popular majority considers Christianity to be "good", but how many
millions of people have been butchered in the name of God? in the name of
governement? in the name of peace? I'm not condemning the church in
anyway, so don't get me wrong. I'm merely demonstrating how warped
mankind's views on "good" and "evil" are and further expressing why we
should not be caught up in the circle as well.

Steve DeVries
Lifeguard of the Gene Pool
http://www.immaculatedreams.com

Jeremy Weiland

12-15-2000, 02:39 PM

>What I see as much of the problem with many of the followers of the Ra
>material is the fact that they tend to forget that the actual polarity of
>the person (sts or sto) is not that important, only that they actually
>polarize. For some reason or dualist way of thinking condemns us to
>thinking of everything as "good" or "evil". A magnet has two

But the cool thing is that you *don't* have to think like that, and
furthermore, when you choose not to think like that, you are thinking in a
way that is more in line w/ reality.
There are no mistakes, as Ra said, and there are no problems with Ra's
followers per se. They are merely following Ra's advice to take what they
can from the information he has given them. Ra never gave anyone any
specific information that could be used to infinge on others' free will and
was quite open in their desire to make this information available to those
of both polarities. If people who study Ra want to still judge the world in
"black and white" terms, then that is simply what they choose to do, and
probably what they would have done whether or not they had been exposed to
the Ra material. It's just people being people...

>Would the group think of me as negative if I said that much of the time I
>feel bad for mankind and see it is a further stagnating cess pool? I

As the official voice for the group <lol> I would not so much think of you
as negative as choosing to view mankind in a negative light. However, this
choice is providing you with catalyst so that you may further polarize. How
*you* respond to what appears to you to be the state of humanity is the
whole question, the way I see it, and I could be wrong of course.

>think there is so much beauty and love in the world, but as a whole,
>mankind is stagnating as it approaches the harvest. Mankind still wants
>to cling to its third density existence. We want to be sold our truth in
>easy to open carboard wrapping from television personalities and holywood
>(yes, I spelled that right) celebrities. Our new heaven is Holywood and
>our gods are actors/actresses. Mankind as a whole seems to seek some form
>of numbness against the feelings associated with our coming harvest. It's

I would argue that this is exactly what the negative forces would have us
believe... that it is all hopeless. The way I understand it, and I haven't
thought this all the way thru, is that we can ourselves raise the vibrations
of this planet and of humanity through our own path to perfection and
dedication to the Law of One, but all those people in humanity still have
to make their own choices, and make them when they choose of their free
will. Just rest assured that they are not "lost" they have just chosen a
different experience than you.
Ra actually speaks more to the problems you have with it than maybe you
realized. This is all a great drama that is unfolding, as David has said,
and it's *only* value is how we use it to work on ourselves.
To put it another way, look at it like this: you care enough about your
brothers and sisters on this planet to allow them to make their own choices
about how they are going to respond to the catalysts that are occuring in
these days. If you're depressed by what you see unfolding in the world
drama, look inside; it is a reflection of, perhaps, what is occuring within.
I dunno... I guess I could have just said "cheer up" and it would have
had the same effect as this whole monologue.
Take care,
Jeremy

Rod Johnson

12-17-2000, 12:45 AM

Jeremy,

Your comparative analysis of the Ra Material sources was extremely
comprehensive and well put. Yes it is titillating to the mind and you are
certainly not off your rocker.

Thank you for the hit, rock on, rock on.

Rod DeeBokonon

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Weiland [mailto:jweiland@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=YkPtnJweO4Pnwmc3R-E_mJ6QEvAO9tX3cc1MH3O8ARAyG25M-5-nvf0Q0lzfCICN9ku_71xTRCzGDmA)]
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 1:48 PM
To: asc2k@egroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=ieGFr2NmNEAwFO1X0PTJiU4suljEhCUwxraAPr fUcYZOhqNkaPAlBHMpYoNkydNCbZnlEk1n2IASTA)
Subject: Re: [asc2k] Official Response to "The Great Play"

SgtPppr wrote:
>Is it in fact an ascension blocker if you are "negative"? From what I got
>from the Ra material, it seems that both positive and negative will
>ascend, just to different places. If one was enlightened, yet
>self-serving, would they not also pass into the 4th density? I'm
I think you hit on an interesting point that is frequently stressed in
the Ra material, but doesn't get as much attention over on this side (i.e.
asc2k's material). During the L/L contact, Ra went to great lengths to
correct Don (the questioner) when he tried to insinuate that one polarity
was less desirable than another. Although Ra seemed to say that the
positive polarity was more efficient, both are acceptable, and the One
Infinite Creator, and the Law of One, are open to both polarities without
prejudice or exception. It seems important to me for those on the path to
understand this, as understanding this point is the most effective way to
understanding what sts and sto actually *mean*, and what reality really is,
and where we fall in it.
However, it seems to me that, while Ra had to maintain a neutrality and
tell the whole story, David is obviously sto and his work is best integrated
by one on the sto path. It wouldn't do much good for him to work on
assisting those on the sts path (and check the Ra material to see what this
would entail if he attempted it: pretty much slavery!).
At least the way I have justified it to myself (and I say it like that
b/c I have asked myself similar questions about Ra's sto bias in the Wilcock
readings and lack of bias in the L/L material) is that the nature of the
Wilcock contact w/ Ra is fundamentally different than the nature of the L/L
contact w/ Ra. Ra seems to speak through Wilcock as a guide for him to
complete work that he has agreed to do here, while the L/L group was merely
on a question and answer basis with Ra in their contact. They were simply
trying to find the principles of this whole view of reality, which makes
David's work possible after all, but they had no specific goal to achieve,
nor any specific change to affect upon the planet like David does. So it's
hard to treat both contacts on the same level. They even *sound* different.
Obviously, the Ra that speaks thru David has a desire to have as great a
sto harvest as possible. I suspect this is because this is a more efficient
path (which even the L/L Ra admitted) but not because it is the "right"
path. There are plenty of negative entities trying to increase the negative
harvest (a daunting task, since I believe the rate for a negative entity to
be harvested is 90% sts), which is of no concern to us, if I understand all
this stuff about polarity. The problem is the vast majority of people who
haven't made the choice yet of which path to follow, which way to polarize,
who are close to being harvested one way or another and who risk not
polarizing sufficiently and having to repeat 3D. So people like David are
here to provide catalyst to great numbers of people to help them polarize
and thereby ascend/ be harvested (are these terms interchangeable?).
Ooooh, this is good stuff. Gets the brain juices flowing... what d'yall
think? Am I totally off my rocker?
Take care,
Jeremy

"Life, he said, is all about style... and my flying machine!"
- The Disco
Biscuits

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=rOKcHL11BsF0q0dECX1haRY8CGu-GpN2Kxs7RCOe8Id1Ba1YR6mrcvUCNuFodorks2q9l9tODM0Qjy _-WlvvlrT26hzLO9MK)

Rod Johnson

12-17-2000, 12:45 AM

Can we simplify consciousness to say what it is? Try "Fully serving the
circumstances" as a fair comprehensive is-ness for consciousness, that could
include both real or illusory. What ever, when served the temporal
circumstances are all experience food for the given soul incarnation.

The ego is not a culprit to contain and ostracize. The ego is lodged in the
temporal existence, ego refinement is the refinement of the soul.

Rod DeeBokonon

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Weiland [mailto:jweiland@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=NWDv4WgQuKaP9zaTdOlTTwQN49R0CXllgDvd-6VweM5YkJ0ZB3knqUBuGFIqkv5EMA5NbOAElGOTceQ)]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 10:28 PM
To: asc2k@egroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=sxWqwEIb6JUyuDI42hFOjh-W_WlTZHsHNEam0q6rgvMklCSpqd-QnALEa6SUqMk39DrEqgPqBrE)
Subject: Re: [asc2k] Official Response to "The Great Play"

>The Great Play contains certain esoteric truths that
>have, in the past, only been given to Initiates who
>managed to gain entrance to the genuine divine Mystery
>Schools. These mature souls had recognised the futile
>plight of the 'I' and were ready to receive the
>impersonal Truth: Grace. I have shared the article
>with you all since, as you know, we are in the "end
>times".

David, I know you don't have time to carry on this thread, so I hope I'm
not saying anything that you feel you would need to correct.
I think the point of David's critique was that, although there are some
elements of truth in "The Great Play", the general feeling and seeming
"thrust" of the document seems to be one of engendering fear and a panicked
aquiesence to the views of a group that none of us know to much about
anyway.
At the risk of provoking David ;-) I will say that the ideas about
"I-ness" were quite interesting to me. Coming from a "Course in Miracles"
background, the idea of the individual self being undesirable (and being an
enemy to be fought) was one of the first real spiritual/philosophic ideas
that I ever tackled on my "path."
(Warning: I'm gonna bring up the Ra material again)
One of the things that I found really interesting about the Ra
material's perspective, and I may be misunderstanding this, is the idea of a
lot of the nature of reality for us here is not so much to be "overcome" and
fought against as to be experienced and used as catalyst when possible. The
purpose of our being on earth is to polarize enough to make "the choice;" if
we figure out the secret to the whole game here, then great, but it's not
the main purpose (i.e. Ra's saying "we can't all be geniuses").
Q'uo, which is another entity that is channelled by L/L research and
whose readings are on the L/L website, talks a lot about what we can
reasonably be expected to accomplish spiritually on this plane, which is
comforting. We're not expected to completely lose our identities to the
oneness while in 3D (though I suppose it is possible, I most entities
usually wait till 6D, right?)... although it is our destiny, the sense of
I-ness serves us now in our learning. It's kinda like what I was talking
about with ascension; as long as we're learning and experiencing, we're
doing what we're supposed to, and we'll get where we need to go as soon as
we need to.
What d'yall think?
Love and light,
Jeremy

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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kmelby0001@...

12-17-2000, 03:19 AM

What kind of updated browser do i need to get into ascention 2000 website?
Where can I get it?
Thanks
Kory

David Wilcock

12-17-2000, 08:05 AM

<table bgColor="#ffffff">
>Ra was NOT neutrally biased, if you work through the books long enough. Since this again could be categorized as a "distortion" I dug up the section that made the point so clearly. (It is true that I don't offer information for both.) 
>
>Besides this excerpt, remember other places where Ra mentions that the negatives MUST become positive to go on into the sixth and seventh density, so there is "great folly" in not following those paths right away. Furthermore, this planet is predominantly positive, so if you did want to have a "negative Ascension" you would need to be - here's the number - above 95% service to self. And the only way you're going to do that is to be a Hitler or Stalin type figure. Yeah, right. 
>
>Here is the key quote, from Book Four, page 140. The Logos that Ra is speaking of is the mind of our Galaxy, having pre-programmed a path for us in many ways, including the structure of the archetypal mind:
>
>Q: Then built into the basis for the archetypes is possibly the mechanism for creating the polarization in consciousness for service to others and service to self. Is this, in fact, true?
>
>Ra: I am Ra. Yes. You will notice the many inborn biases which hint to the possibility of one path's being more efficient than the other. This was the design of the Logos.
>
>Q: Then what you are saying is that once the path is recognized, either the positive or the negative polarized entity can find hints along his path as to the efficiency of that path. Is this correct?
>
>Ra: I am Ra. That which you say is correct upon its own merits, but is not a repetition of our statement. Our suggestion was that within the experiential nexus of each entity within its second-density environment and within the roots of mind there were placed biases indicating to the watchful eye the more efficient of the two paths. Let us say, for want of a more precise adjective, that this Logos has a bias towards kindness.
>
Q: Then you say that the more efficient of the two paths was suggested in a subliminal way to second density to be the service-to-others path. Am I correct?
>
>Ra: I am Ra. We did not state which was the more efficient path. However, you are correct in your assumption, as you are aware from having examined each path in some detail in previous querying.
>
>Peace be with you -
>
>- David
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: Rod Johnson (rodj@299e.net)
style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: asc2k@egroups.com
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 3:45 AM
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: [asc2k] Official Response to "The Great Play"
>
<tt>Jeremy,

Your comparative analysis of the Ra Material sources was extremely
comprehensive and well put. Yes it is titillating to the mind and you are
certainly not off your rocker.

Thank you for the hit, rock on, rock on.

Rod DeeBokonon

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Weiland [mailto:jweiland@nettalon.com]
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 1:48 PM
To: asc2k@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [asc2k] Official Response to "The Great Play"

SgtPppr wrote:
>Is it in fact an ascension blocker if you are "negative"? From what I got
>from the Ra material, it seems that both positive and negative will
>ascend, just to different places. If one was enlightened, yet
>self-serving, would they not also pass into the 4th density? I'm
I think you hit on an interesting point that is frequently stressed in
the Ra material, but doesn't get as much attention over on this side (i.e.
asc2k's material). During the L/L contact, Ra went to great lengths to
correct Don (the questioner) when he tried to insinuate that one polarity
was less desirable than another. Although Ra seemed to say that the
positive polarity was more efficient, both are acceptable, and the One
Infinite Creator, and the Law of One, are open to both polarities without
prejudice or exception. It seems important to me for those on the path to
understand this, as understanding this point is the most effective way to
understanding what sts and sto actually *mean*, and what reality really is,
and where we fall in it.
However, it seems to me that, while Ra had to maintain a neutrality and
tell the whole story, David is obviously sto and his work is best integrated
by one on the sto path. It wouldn't do much good for him to work on
assisting those on the sts path (and check the Ra material to see what this
would entail if he attempted it: pretty much slavery!).
At least the way I have justified it to myself (and I say it like that
b/c I have asked myself similar questions about Ra's sto bias in the Wilcock
readings and lack of bias in the L/L material) is that the nature of the
Wilcock contact w/ Ra is fundamentally different than the nature of the L/L
contact w/ Ra. Ra seems to speak through Wilcock as a guide for him to
complete work that he has agreed to do here, while the L/L group was merely
on a question and answer basis with Ra in their contact. They were simply
trying to find the principles of this whole view of reality, which makes
David's work possible after all, but they had no specific goal to achieve,
nor any specific change to affect upon the planet like David does. So it's
hard to treat both contacts on the same level. They even *sound* different.
Obviously, the Ra that speaks thru David has a desire to have as great a
sto harvest as possible. I suspect this is because this is a more efficient
path (which even the L/L Ra admitted) but not because it is the "right"
path. There are plenty of negative entities trying to increase the negative
harvest (a daunting task, since I believe the rate for a negative entity to
be harvested is 90% sts), which is of no concern to us, if I understand all
this stuff about polarity. The problem is the vast majority of people who
haven't made the choice yet of which path to follow, which way to polarize,
who are close to being harvested one way or another and who risk not
polarizing sufficiently and having to repeat 3D. So people like David are
here to provide catalyst to great numbers of people to help them polarize
and thereby ascend/ be harvested (are these terms interchangeable?).
Ooooh, this is good stuff. Gets the brain juices flowing... what d'yall
think? Am I totally off my rocker?
Take care,
Jeremy

"Life, he said, is all about style... and my flying machine!"
- The Disco
Biscuits

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com

</tt>

<tt>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com

</tt>
</blockquote>

David Wilcock

12-17-2000, 12:55 PM

<table bgColor="#ffffff">
>When I get the chance I am going to try to convert all the graphics in Shift of the Ages back over to linked instead of vector. That's the page everyone is having trouble with. For now, the only solution seems to be to download the most recent version of Microsoft Internet Explorer.
>
>- David
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: kmelby0001@aol.com
style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: asc2k@egroups.com
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 11:19 AM
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: Re: [asc2k] Official Response to "The Great Play"
>
<tt>What kind of updated browser do i need to get into ascention 2000 website?
Where can I get it?
Thanks
Kory
</tt>

<tt>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com

</tt>
</blockquote>

Jeremy Weiland

12-17-2000, 02:19 PM

<table bgColor="#ffffff">
> The more I thought about it, the more I realized that you were right. The L/L Ra's tone does "seem" to be neutral and unbiased, but obviously they are sto, since their whole reason for continuing the contact was to serve Earth and correct the distortions they caused. They are just at a point (6D) where serving others is all there is, for there is no polarity. 
> But obviously your work, David, is very clearly sto and is not as removed and academic as the L/L Ra's work seems. I think the tone had a lot to do with my earlier comment.
> But the thing that got us started on this whole thread was someone's post that negative ascension takes place as well. Although itis true that the positive polarity is the more efficient path, it is also true that both paths lead to oneness and both are acceptable to the creator. Obviously Ra, in their sto nature, would choose to help us by bringing us closer to that which is the more efficient polarity, but it seems that the only way they can serve is by honoring our sovereign choice of which path to follow, knowing that both ways lead home in the end.
> I hope this clears up the distortion I offered earlier, and if not then maybe I'm missing something.
> L/L
> Jeremy
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
>-----Original Message-----
From: David Wilcock <djw333@exis.net>
To: asc2k@egroups.com <asc2k@egroups.com>
Date: Sunday, December 17, 2000 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [asc2k] Official Response to "The Great Play"


>Ra was NOT neutrally biased, if you work through the books long enough. Since this again could be categorized as a "distortion" I dug up the section that made the point so clearly. (It is true that I don't offer information for both.) 
>
>Besides this excerpt, remember other places where Ra mentions that the negatives MUST become positive to go on into the sixth and seventh density, so there is "great folly" in not following those paths right away. Furthermore, this planet is predominantly positive, so if you did want to have a "negative Ascension" you would need to be - here's the number - above 95% service to self. And the only way you're going to do that is to be a Hitler or Stalin type figure. Yeah, right. 
>
>Here is the key quote, from Book Four, page 140. The Logos that Ra is speaking of is the mind of our Galaxy, having pre-programmed a path for us in many ways, including the structure of the archetypal mind:
>
>Q: Then built into the basis for the archetypes is possibly the mechanism for creating the polarization in consciousness for service to others and service to self. Is this, in fact, true?
>
>Ra: I am Ra. Yes. You will notice the many inborn biases which hint to the possibility of one path's being more efficient than the other. This was the design of the Logos.
>
>Q: Then what you are saying is that once the path is recognized, either the positive or the negative polarized entity can find hints along his path as to the efficiency of that path. Is this correct?
>
>Ra: I am Ra. That which you say is correct upon its own merits, but is not a repetition of our statement. Our suggestion was that within the experiential nexus of each entity within its second-density environment and within the roots of mind there were placed biases indicating to the watchful eye the more efficient of the two paths. Let us say, for want of a more precise adjective, that this Logos has a bias towards kindness.
>
Q: Then you say that the more efficient of the two paths was suggested in a subliminal way to second density to be the service-to-others path. Am I correct?
>
>Ra: I am Ra. We did not state which was the more efficient path. However, you are correct in your assumption, as you are aware from having examined each path in some detail in previous querying.
>
>Peace be with you -
>
>- David
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: Rod Johnson (rodj@299e.net)
style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: asc2k@egroups.com
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 3:45 AM
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: [asc2k] Official Response to "The Great Play"
>
<tt>Jeremy,

Your comparative analysis of the Ra Material sources was extremely
comprehensive and well put. Yes it is titillating to the mind and you are
certainly not off your rocker.

Thank you for the hit, rock on, rock on.

Rod DeeBokonon

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Weiland [mailto:jweiland@nettalon.com]
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 1:48 PM
To: asc2k@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [asc2k] Official Response to "The Great Play"

SgtPppr wrote:
>Is it in fact an ascension blocker if you are "negative"? From what I got
>from the Ra material, it seems that both positive and negative will
>ascend, just to different places. If one was enlightened, yet
>self-serving, would they not also pass into the 4th density? I'm
I think you hit on an interesting point that is frequently stressed in
the Ra material, but doesn't get as much attention over on this side (i.e.
asc2k's material). During the L/L contact, Ra went to great lengths to
correct Don (the questioner) when he tried to insinuate that one polarity
was less desirable than another. Although Ra seemed to say that the
positive polarity was more efficient, both are acceptable, and the One
Infinite Creator, and the Law of One, are open to both polarities without
prejudice or exception. It seems important to me for those on the path to
understand this, as understanding this point is the most effective way to
understanding what sts and sto actually *mean*, and what reality really is,
and where we fall in it.
However, it seems to me that, while Ra had to maintain a neutrality and
tell the whole story, David is obviously sto and his work is best integrated
by one on the sto path. It wouldn't do much good for him to work on
assisting those on the sts path (and check the Ra material to see what this
would entail if he attempted it: pretty much slavery!).
At least the way I have justified it to myself (and I say it like that
b/c I have asked myself similar questions about Ra's sto bias in the Wilcock
readings and lack of bias in the L/L material) is that the nature of the
Wilcock contact w/ Ra is fundamentally different than the nature of the L/L
contact w/ Ra. Ra seems to speak through Wilcock as a guide for him to
complete work that he has agreed to do here, while the L/L group was merely
on a question and answer basis with Ra in their contact. They were simply
trying to find the principles of this whole view of reality, which makes
David's work possible after all, but they had no specific goal to achieve,
nor any specific change to affect upon the planet like David does. So it's
hard to treat both contacts on the same level. They even *sound* different.
Obviously, the Ra that speaks thru David has a desire to have as great a
sto harvest as possible. I suspect this is because this is a more efficient
path (which even the L/L Ra admitted) but not because it is the "right"
path. There are plenty of negative entities trying to increase the negative
harvest (a daunting task, since I believe the rate for a negative entity to
be harvested is 90% sts), which is of no concern to us, if I understand all
this stuff about polarity. The problem is the vast majority of people who
haven't made the choice yet of which path to follow, which way to polarize,
who are close to being harvested one way or another and who risk not
polarizing sufficiently and having to repeat 3D. So people like David are
here to provide catalyst to great numbers of people to help them polarize
and thereby ascend/ be harvested (are these terms interchangeable?).
Ooooh, this is good stuff. Gets the brain juices flowing... what d'yall
think? Am I totally off my rocker?
Take care,
Jeremy

"Life, he said, is all about style... and my flying machine!"
- The Disco
Biscuits

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com

</tt>

<tt>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com

</tt>
</blockquote>

<tt>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com

</tt>
</blockquote>

David Wilcock

12-17-2000, 05:20 PM

<table bgColor="#ffffff">
>Good job.
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: Jeremy Weiland (jweiland@nettalon.com)
style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: asc2k@egroups.com
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 5:19 PM
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: Re: [asc2k] Official Response to "The Great Play"
>

> The more I thought about it, the more I realized that you were right. The L/L Ra's tone does "seem" to be neutral and unbiased, but obviously they are sto, since their whole reason for continuing the contact was to serve Earth and correct the distortions they caused. They are just at a point (6D) where serving others is all there is, for there is no polarity. 
> But obviously your work, David, is very clearly sto and is not as removed and academic as the L/L Ra's work seems. I think the tone had a lot to do with my earlier comment.
> But the thing that got us started on this whole thread was someone's post that negative ascension takes place as well. Although itis true that the positive polarity is the more efficient path, it is also true that both paths lead to oneness and both are acceptable to the creator. Obviously Ra, in their sto nature, would choose to help us by bringing us closer to that which is the more efficient polarity, but it seems that the only way they can serve is by honoring our sovereign choice of which path to follow, knowing that both ways lead home in the end.
> I hope this clears up the distortion I offered earlier, and if not then maybe I'm missing something.
> L/L
> Jeremy
<blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
>-----Original Message-----
From: David Wilcock <djw333@exis.net>
To: asc2k@egroups.com <asc2k@egroups.com>
Date: Sunday, December 17, 2000 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [asc2k] Official Response to "The Great Play"


>Ra was NOT neutrally biased, if you work through the books long enough. Since this again could be categorized as a "distortion" I dug up the section that made the point so clearly. (It is true that I don't offer information for both.) 
>
>Besides this excerpt, remember other places where Ra mentions that the negatives MUST become positive to go on into the sixth and seventh density, so there is "great folly" in not following those paths right away. Furthermore, this planet is predominantly positive, so if you did want to have a "negative Ascension" you would need to be - here's the number - above 95% service to self. And the only way you're going to do that is to be a Hitler or Stalin type figure. Yeah, right. 
>
>Here is the key quote, from Book Four, page 140. The Logos that Ra is speaking of is the mind of our Galaxy, having pre-programmed a path for us in many ways, including the structure of the archetypal mind:
>
>Q: Then built into the basis for the archetypes is possibly the mechanism for creating the polarization in consciousness for service to others and service to self. Is this, in fact, true?
>
>Ra: I am Ra. Yes. You will notice the many inborn biases which hint to the possibility of one path's being more efficient than the other. This was the design of the Logos.
>
>Q: Then what you are saying is that once the path is recognized, either the positive or the negative polarized entity can find hints along his path as to the efficiency of that path. Is this correct?
>
>Ra: I am Ra. That which you say is correct upon its own merits, but is not a repetition of our statement. Our suggestion was that within the experiential nexus of each entity within its second-density environment and within the roots of mind there were placed biases indicating to the watchful eye the more efficient of the two paths. Let us say, for want of a more precise adjective, that this Logos has a bias towards kindness.
>
Q: Then you say that the more efficient of the two paths was suggested in a subliminal way to second density to be the service-to-others path. Am I correct?
>
>Ra: I am Ra. We did not state which was the more efficient path. However, you are correct in your assumption, as you are aware from having examined each path in some detail in previous querying.
>
>Peace be with you -
>
>- David
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: Rod Johnson (rodj@299e.net)
style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: asc2k@egroups.com
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 3:45 AM
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: [asc2k] Official Response to "The Great Play"
>
<tt>Jeremy,

Your comparative analysis of the Ra Material sources was extremely
comprehensive and well put. Yes it is titillating to the mind and you are
certainly not off your rocker.

Thank you for the hit, rock on, rock on.

Rod DeeBokonon

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Weiland [mailto:jweiland@nettalon.com]
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 1:48 PM
To: asc2k@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [asc2k] Official Response to "The Great Play"

SgtPppr wrote:
>Is it in fact an ascension blocker if you are "negative"? From what I got
>from the Ra material, it seems that both positive and negative will
>ascend, just to different places. If one was enlightened, yet
>self-serving, would they not also pass into the 4th density? I'm
I think you hit on an interesting point that is frequently stressed in
the Ra material, but doesn't get as much attention over on this side (i.e.
asc2k's material). During the L/L contact, Ra went to great lengths to
correct Don (the questioner) when he tried to insinuate that one polarity
was less desirable than another. Although Ra seemed to say that the
positive polarity was more efficient, both are acceptable, and the One
Infinite Creator, and the Law of One, are open to both polarities without
prejudice or exception. It seems important to me for those on the path to
understand this, as understanding this point is the most effective way to
understanding what sts and sto actually *mean*, and what reality really is,
and where we fall in it.
However, it seems to me that, while Ra had to maintain a neutrality and
tell the whole story, David is obviously sto and his work is best integrated
by one on the sto path. It wouldn't do much good for him to work on
assisting those on the sts path (and check the Ra material to see what this
would entail if he attempted it: pretty much slavery!).
At least the way I have justified it to myself (and I say it like that
b/c I have asked myself similar questions about Ra's sto bias in the Wilcock
readings and lack of bias in the L/L material) is that the nature of the
Wilcock contact w/ Ra is fundamentally different than the nature of the L/L
contact w/ Ra. Ra seems to speak through Wilcock as a guide for him to
complete work that he has agreed to do here, while the L/L group was merely
on a question and answer basis with Ra in their contact. They were simply
trying to find the principles of this whole view of reality, which makes
David's work possible after all, but they had no specific goal to achieve,
nor any specific change to affect upon the planet like David does. So it's
hard to treat both contacts on the same level. They even *sound* different.
Obviously, the Ra that speaks thru David has a desire to have as great a
sto harvest as possible. I suspect this is because this is a more efficient
path (which even the L/L Ra admitted) but not because it is the "right"
path. There are plenty of negative entities trying to increase the negative
harvest (a daunting task, since I believe the rate for a negative entity to
be harvested is 90% sts), which is of no concern to us, if I understand all
this stuff about polarity. The problem is the vast majority of people who
haven't made the choice yet of which path to follow, which way to polarize,
who are close to being harvested one way or another and who risk not
polarizing sufficiently and having to repeat 3D. So people like David are
here to provide catalyst to great numbers of people to help them polarize
and thereby ascend/ be harvested (are these terms interchangeable?).
Ooooh, this is good stuff. Gets the brain juices flowing... what d'yall
think? Am I totally off my rocker?
Take care,
Jeremy

"Life, he said, is all about style... and my flying machine!"
- The Disco
Biscuits

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