PDA

View Full Version : DW´s out of body experience - a consistent model


cosmiccell
02-08-2004, 02:24 AM
Hi Jeremy,




you wrote:




> What I mean is, we are not experts - and we don't have


> definitive answers for you. As I touched on before,


> we have little need for definitive, black and white


> answers, as this forum is designed to be a place where


> we can share our experiences and understandings.




CC: At this point I donÃà‚‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´t seek for "definitve answers" neither (e.g.
you will never hear me say: "period!"). Complete knowledge includes
knowledge of the phenomenal world, the spirit behind it, and the
_source_ of both of them. This is transcendental knowledge, gained by
spiritual practice, with a mind concentrated on God. What we should
use besides, is our power of discrimination.




So, why not follow a simple strategy: You have your hypothesis of
reality, I have mine. The one, which explains the observed phenomena
of our world _more consistently_ and with _less effort_, is -
scientifically spoken - superior to the other one. I really donÃà‚‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´t have
a problem replacing my model through yours, if yours meets above
criteria better - do you?




Applied to the contradiction between David`s out of body experience
(where he experienced hierarchically higher dimensions or densities as
being _upwards_, thus farther away from Earth`s surface) and Ra`s
definition ("There is a center to infinity. From this center all
spreads."), there is another possible scenario, which you probably
were never thinking of, but which resolves this apparent discrepance
with ease.






> I would simply chalk that up to two things: confines


> of thinking and language, and subjective experience.




CC: Sounds a bit like admission of having no idea.




> It's like the story of the Sphere who visits the two


> dimensional triangle who's whole world is a plane.


> The triangle only understands width and depth, not


> height. When the sphere moves up and down through the


> plane, all the triangle sees is a circle growing and


> shrinking.




CC: This picture is commonly used, but it is off topic to the problem.
Why? Because the "triangle" (David) _did_ see the higher planes of the
"Sphere" and could even describe them _in detail_. So, even
"triangles" can experience "spherical" reality, by "simply" rising
their frequency.






> Similarly, in the veiled, 3D experience, it's


> difficult to work directly with higher experiences.




CC: Another veiled insinuation of "blissful ignorance"? :)




> They are not per se scientific, empirical endeavors,


> but rather highly subjective.




CC: You are bound to claim that, as long as you are not aware of
consistency. But thatÃà‚‚Â ´s what our intellectual search is all about.




> We may be able to


> explain certain aspects via models, but these models


> don't take things like extra dimensions and subtlties


> of existence into account.




CC: Sure they do! Only recently, I came across a phantastic web site
named "The Divine Cosmos", offering a stunning documentation of the
connection between _higher dimensions_ and _3D shapes_ on EarthÃÃÂà ‚‚‚à‚´s
surface. You may have heard about it! :>






> In short, I would not be


> inclined to use David's characterization of a


> subjective experience as any sort of proof of a


> scientific model.




CC: I bet you guys were the first to use DavidÃÃÂà ‚‚‚à‚´s more "bizarre"
experiences as proof (or at least as a hot indication), if you only
had the slightest idea of how a consistent model could look like! =o)




> "Up" and "in" are just two


> shorthand ways of trying to tackle the concept of


> interdensity or interdimensional motion, both of which


> don't have their own prepositions yet. :-)





CC: Is this an example for the unwillingness of common mind to take
anything serious, thatÃà‚‚Â ´s beyond its "dirt track"?




Ok, all jokes aside, I kept you long enough on tenterhooks, letÃà‚‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´s
unveil the "enigma"!






A consistent model for Davids description of higher dimensions


--------------------------------------------------------------




1. Dimensions (densities) are spheres or shells, centered around a
core like onion skins, the dimension closest to the core (7th or 8th
dimension) being logically the most similar and therefore highest one.




2. It was never determined whether the habited surface of the shells
(including 3D density) is _convex_ or _concave_. This is a
specification which nobody in this forum thought of - until now.




3. On a CONCAVE shell surface, travelling upwards, away from the
surface, would mean: travelling towards the center, thus "popping in"
in higher and higher dimensions, the closer and closer you come to the
core.




4. Davids description of the highest plane as a relatively small
space, a space ship cockpit, from which the lower (outer) dimensions
are controlled and manipulated ("The Matrix" is greeting!) is another
strong evidence of the highest dimension being proximate to a "core
cockpit".




This resembles very much like "swapping the view of a picture puzzle"
but opens substantially new perspectives and a broad discussion field.
It would be very interesting what you - David - and also Ra (is he
still channeling?) have to say to the hypothesis of a concave
universe. I couldnÃà‚‚à‚´t locate so far any hard evidence (e.g. reference
to physical experiments etc.) which would support an convex universe,
neither in the Ra material nor in the work of DW. I herewith ask for
the combined effort of the group to help clarify this crucial,
multi-implicational question.




Check out this:




QUESTION: Has Ra experienced or does Ra have knowledge of any of
these other galaxies? Has Ra traveled to, in one form or another, any
of these galaxies? (B4, 59)





RA: WE HAVE OPENED OUR HEARTS IN RADIATION OF LOVE TO THE ENTIRE
CREATION... ALL [...] ARE ONE. This is the type of contact which we
enjoy rather than travel. (B4, 59)


http://ascension2000.com/Ra-section3.htm




What does this tell us? Nothing more than what we already know: That
the hypothesis of an infinite universe has "yet to be proved or
disproved" - even in 3D!




Love and light,


CC

Jeremy Weiland
02-08-2004, 11:28 AM
> CC: At this point I donÃà‚‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´t seek for "definitve
> answers" neither (e.g. you will never hear me
> say: "period!").

If you weren't looking for definitive answers and
conclusions, you wouldn't be trying to argue against
our commonly held beliefs here. There would be no
basis upon which to accept one set of beliefs and
reject another.

> What we should use besides, is our power of
> discrimination.

*Believe me*, I fully intend to.

> So, why not follow a simple strategy: You have your
> hypothesis of reality, I have mine. The one, which
> explains the observed phenomena of our world _more
> consistently_ and with _less effort_, is -
> scientifically spoken - superior to the other one. I
> really donÃà‚‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´t have a problem replacing my model
> through yours, if yours meets above criteria better
-
> do you?

Yes, I do, if I haven't made that abundantly clear
already!

This is NOT THE PLACE for you to prove to yourself
that we're "right or wrong". We don't require your
acceptance of any beliefs we hold here. All we ask is
that you strengthen the group by participating in it
*if you share our beliefs* and kindly find a more
compatible group if you don't. But it is *completely
inappropriate* to come on here and expect us to stop
what we're doing and convince you of our beliefs. I
really can't express how exasperating it is.

> CC: Sounds a bit like admission of having no idea.

That statement sounds like a petulant alternative to
listening to what the person has to say.

> Why? Because the "triangle" (David) _did_ see the
> higher planes of the "Sphere" and could even
> describe them _in detail_. So, even "triangles" can

> experience "spherical" reality, by "simply" rising
> their frequency.

This is starting to hurt my brain.

OK, it was an analogy, first of all. The point is
that language is not always the most precise way of
communicating the subtleties of dimension and
existence.

I don't understand how a subjective experience David
has somehow constitutes a disproof of Ra's statement.
Your argument is just completely missing me.

> > They are not per se scientific, empirical
> > endeavors, but rather highly subjective.>
>
> CC: You are bound to claim that, as long as you are
> not aware of consistency. But thatÃà‚‚Â ´s what our
> intellectual search is all about.

LOL Oh ok. So now we *are* looking for "definitive
answers"?

> > We may be able to explain certain aspects via
> > models, but these models don't take things like
> > extra dimensions and subtlties of existence into
> > account.
> CC: Sure they do! Only recently, I came across a
> phantastic web site named "The Divine Cosmos",
> offering a stunning documentation of the connection
> between _higher dimensions_ and _3D shapes_ on
> EarthÃÃÂà ‚‚‚à‚´s surface. You may have heard about it! :>

Yes, but David did not write that in an out of body
state. Therefore, maybe his perspective was slightly
different, you think?

> > In short, I would not be inclined to use David's
> > characterization of a subjective experience as any

> > sort of proof of a scientific model.
>
> CC: I bet you guys were the first to use DavidÃÃÂà ‚‚‚à‚´s
> more "bizarre" experiences as proof (or at least as
> a hot indication), if you only had the slightest
> idea of how a consistent model could look like! =o)

Actually, David's experiences are interesting because
they confirm experiences and information *he* is
integrating in his life. For me to take a subjective
experience he had and use that to support a belief in
any cosmological model is just ridiculous.

I'm 100% certain David does *not* advocate acceptance
of his scientific research based on his personal out
of body experiences. It would be highly irrational
and incredulous for his to do so.

> CC: Is this an example for the unwillingness of
> common mind to take anything serious, thatÃà‚‚Â ´s beyond
> its "dirt track"?

No, it's an acknowledgement that a single personal
experience, let alone a personal narration thereof, is
not *proof* of anything, period.

> Ok, all jokes aside, I kept you long enough on
> tenterhooks, letÃà‚‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´s unveil the "enigma"!

We're all waiting breathlessly...

> I herewith ask for the combined effort of the group
> to help clarify this crucial, multi-implicational
> question.

<sigh>

So, basically, you're in this group to hawk your pet
theory? I will remind you to review list guidelines
*VERY* carefully.

Love and light,

Jeremy

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

Paul Kandrah
02-08-2004, 07:23 PM
--- Jeremy Weiland wrote:
> > CC: At this point I donÃà‚‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´t seek for "definitve
> > answers" neither (e.g. you will never hear me
> > say: "period!").
>
> If you weren't looking for definitive answers and
> conclusions, you wouldn't be trying to argue against
> our commonly held beliefs here. There would be no
> basis upon which to accept one set of beliefs and
> reject another.
>
> > What we should use besides, is our power of
> > discrimination.
>
> *Believe me*, I fully intend to.
>
> > So, why not follow a simple strategy: You have your
> > hypothesis of reality, I have mine. The one, which
> > explains the observed phenomena of our world _more
> > consistently_ and with _less effort_, is -
> > scientifically spoken - superior to the other one. I
> > really donÃà‚‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´t have a problem replacing my model
> > through yours, if yours meets above criteria better
> -
> > do you?
>
> Yes, I do, if I haven't made that abundantly clear
> already!


P: I got this piece of advice once: The devil knocks at your door.
What do you do? You open the door, invite him in, feed him, warm
him, and then show him the door with a smile. The other alternative,
of course, is to fight him. But if you fight him you will lose. You
will lose because in 'fighting' you will have already lost.

The group atmosphere here is the integral of every single message
posted. There are some very fine people here with some very fine
thoughts. We all can discriminate for ourselves where the truth is.
The truth is in ourselves, mirrored all around us.

What a wonderful mirror CC is. He is the mirror of logic. He has
his beliefs, collected through myriads of experience. See what
circles logic brings, especially when facing an apparent antithesis?
Who else uses the mind to circle infinity into logic?
Another story. A young man comes back from getting a philosophy
degree to visit his father. Proud, the young man exclaims to his
father that he can prove anything with logic. The father asks him to
prove that he has no nose. The young man quickly starts into a
tirade of talking and waving his hands. The father punches him in
the nose.

Shortly, I will be leaving the group. I wish to focus more on the
Light; here I have been fighting too much. I've appreciated many of
the contributions made by so many people here over the past year +.
With the intent of Love and Light, thank you so much.

Paul Kandrah

srachele2003
02-09-2004, 11:48 AM
--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=9y-mDCVtrIZJUaqd_7xfy7Yhte09M5mPZx62dAayyUpIN-2Zhx6ze7BMPLWDtXpaZkLrJuV-9HddycFXww), "cosmiccell" <minema@g...> wrote:

> A consistent model for Davids description of higher dimensions:

> 1. Dimensions (densities) are spheres or shells, centered around a
> core like onion skins, the dimension closest to the core (7th or 8th
> dimension) being logically the most similar and therefore highest
> one.

Sal here:
As you stated, this is why it's hard to put higher dimensions into
Earthly language. In my previous post, I had the onion reversed from
the way it's described above. However, I feel both models are correct.
The higher dimensions are deeper and more core than the superficial
'outer' layers, yet the higher contains the lower. I cannot even
visualize this, but I feel it to be true, and David's work seems to
back it up.

CC re David:
> 2. It was never determined whether the habited surface of the shells
> (including 3D density) is convex or concave. This is a
> specification which nobody in this forum thought of - until now.

Sal:
Both concave and convex simultaneously, as I see it -- yeah, it's hard
to fathom this with our 3D brains.

...

darktemplarssj
02-09-2004, 12:53 PM
> Shortly, I will be leaving the group. I wish to focus more on the
> Light; here I have been fighting too much. I've appreciated many
of
> the contributions made by so many people here over the past year
+.
> With the intent of Love and Light, thank you so much.
>
> Paul Kandrah

IMO you will find distortion and difficulty anywhere that you go. I
think the key is to be able to accept that difficulty and those
problems as part of your experience and to coexist with it
harmoniously. With the intent of not causing any more conflict I
will just say thanks for all your insightful comments and remember
there is really no speration in leaving,All are One.
-Dave aka DMW