The Bankruptcy of The United States

[shemayet_3]

Good Afternoon Group :) L~&~L

I am posting a link to a rather interesting webpage posting,

The United States Congressional Record,
March 17, 1993 Vol. 33, page H-1303.

If you are an American, or any one else who deals in American
dollars. You'll want to read this.

This is the reason most of us should be doing, what David is doing,
and turning our money into "hard assets" such as gold and silver.

www.mayanmajix.com/art526.html


Love and Light

Shemayet~*

[Lesley Schultz]

My dear Shemayet, L/L & Peace to All:

At the risk of *appearing* to disagree with you [I'm
not, technically], I need to point out that the reason
for getting off the gold standard was in order to pull
ourselves out of the Great Depression. This was one
of the reasons why FDR's New Deal was so contraversial
at the time. John Maynard Keynes, a very famous
British economic theorist and Oxford don, was the guy
who first theorized that government spending to
stimulate economic activity could jump-start growth.
It used to be that people would save money to invest
in projects or monetary instruments or real estate [or
whatnot] in order to receive interest and grow their
investment. Businesses would seek out investors in
order to expand their capacity. But in a recession,
or a depression, businesses that experience smaller
demands cut production. People hold onto their money
instead of investing it. Before FDIC insurance, it
would go under matresses and things like this. It
was, effectively, out of circulation.

When business can't grow, or when it actually shrinks,
it starts a destructive cycle of lower demand,
layoffs, even lower demand, more layoffs, etc. and the
economy goes into free fall. Like it did during the
Depression. The situation was exacerbated by the many
bank failures and people's faith in money itself had
gone bad.

Something had to be done. Desperate times called for
desperate measures. So, it was decided that the
government would fund programs to stimulate economic
activity [i.e. building projects, the WPA,
infrastructure improvements, etc. etc.] In this way,
government money to business stimulates growth and
jobs, also dams and bridges and highways and other
good things get built. Gradually, as more people go
back to work they spend more money on consumer goods,
and demand is stimulated. You get the picture. This
is called "priming the pump" and it's been done by
many presidents since FDR. Unfortunately, no
president since Johnson has really pumped money into
infrastructure projects. Mostly, if there is "priming
the pump" it's done via defense spending a la Regan,
Bush, Clinton. Defense spending eventually produces
useful consumer goods, but only eventually. But that's
another topic.

Shemayet, the US Government is bankrupt and is in dire
trouble now because of the great Credit Crunch. The
British Empire, at the time when it was so big that
the sun never set on it, was a net exporter of capital
for investment and growth. The US is a net importer
of capital, and has been for many years. However, the
capital we're importing has been increasingly not for
growing the economy of the country and the world
market, but for serviving the invetest on the capital
we're importing. We're going the way of South
America, folks. We're going to be a Third World
country very soon. Without the partnership and the
good will of Europe and Asia, no one can or will lend
us enough money to keep going. We can take over
control of world oil, and it looks like we're trying
hard to do it, with the excuse that we're saving
ourselves and Europe from terrorists. This, however,
isn't even believable B.S. anymore.

Oil and natural gas, my friends, are naturally
renewable resources. They don't come from dead
dinosaurs. China knows this, as do the Russians.
There are large deposits of natural gas in Tibet,
recently discovered, which are very rich. We can
expect China to tighten their grip on that unfortunate
nation, but their monetary situation is scarcely
better than ours- believe it or not. Their banking
system, being extremely heavily controlled by the
government, is ready to collapse also.

"May you live in interesting times" is an old Chinese
curse. I think we might be living in some VERY
intersting times....

Blesings,
~lesley
--- shemayet_3 <Shemayet@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=NajTG_5RrY-kWw6j8bkiwTheKX27AgpXOf4S5BpxyFoZ01Tq7g15ZFQYOcED1 Khrsb4WsYQ43cM)> wrote:
>
>
> Good Afternoon Group :) L~&~L
>
> I am posting a link to a rather interesting webpage
> posting,
>
> The United States Congressional Record,
> March 17, 1993 Vol. 33, page H-1303.
>
> If you are an American, or any one else who deals in
> American
> dollars. You'll want to read this.
>
> This is the reason most of us should be doing, what
> David is doing,
> and turning our money into "hard assets" such as
> gold and silver.
>
> www.mayanmajix.com/art526.html
>
>
> Love and Light
>
> Shemayet~*
>
>
>
>


=====
************************************************
Lesley Schultz
865 York St. #3
Oakland, CA 94610

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universe? (Y/N)

__________________________________
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[shemayet_3]

Blessings Lesley, L~&~L :)

...In the early 1930s, bankers, the only source of new money and
credit, deliberately refused loans to industries, stores and farms.
Payments on existing loans were required however, and money rapidly
disappeared from circulation...

http://www.mayanmajix.com/art512.html

Same site, different page

Blessed Be

Shemayet~*

[shemayet_3]

Greetings :)

Just wanted to share a quote. Actually one I've been seeing a lot of
lately!

"Some people say the sky is falling. But I say, it only looks that
way because we are ascending." - Swami Beyondananda

Blessed Be

Shemayet~*

[Lesley Schultz]

Blessings to you too, Shemayet, and L/L & Peace to you
and to All:

--- shemayet_3 <Shemayet@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=p51kdzNomvEbHeGtQGsoiYMHJf3EghNF33QNV2 KTZfzV4_MZInnL78533Wwx1W3l55uUuSM5)> wrote:
> snip>> ...In the early 1930s, bankers, the only
source of new money and credit, deliberately refused
loans to industries, stores and farms. Payments on
existing loans were required however, and money
rapidly disappeared from circulation...
>
> http://www.mayanmajix.com/art512.html
>
> Same site, different page

LS: I am absolutely loath to even appear to defend the
execrable behavior of the bankers at that time, but
technically, if they didn't do what they did it would
have been necessary to collapse the entire monetary
system. As your quote says,"money rapidly disappeared
from circulation" and this was due to both deficiency
and hoarding. Both cause economic freefall, as I
wrote before. If the economic system of using money
as a media of exchange had been allowed to crash
completely, people would have gone back to farming,
barter and an agrarian society-- and probably
something very close to feudalism would have emerged.
Something a good deal uglier than democracy certainly
did, in any event.

Hardly a step forward. We weren't ready to support
something better as a solution, because it wasn't 2012
yet! ;-)

It's been known for a long time that capitalism
doesn't work. Even the venerable Adam Smith wrote
that capitalism doesn't work in one of the later
volumes of his "Wealth of Nations." Our markets, and
those of the whole world, are carefully managed,
protected and manipulated-- to the vast advantage of a
very few and the destruction of very many.

Adam Smith, and nobody since then, has come up with a
viable alternative to capital and markets as a method
of creating and distributing wealth, and raising
living standards, for the largest number of people. It
isn't a perfect system, but it does work after a
fashion. We play the game now because we must.
Communism and socialism don't work nearly as well,
because they both expect human beings to always be
willing to work hard, play fair and share. 3D human
beings don't do that very well for very long.

The only way we can ever get away from the system of
money and markets is to eliminate scarcity of
necessary requirements for living a reasonable life.
This means adequate and safe-to-consume food & water,
clothing, heat in winter and shelter from the
elements. Medical care, work/employment and education
come next, followed by social networks and support.
We know that it is possible to give all of these
things to the population of the entire world, if those
that govern us were willing to make the decision that
this is what they wanted to do.

However, keeping us afraid of each other, encouraging
hoarding or overconsumption by creating both illusions
of scarcity on one hand and supersaturation of
capacity [there's a word for this but I can't think of
it...] on the other, and creating inequities in
distribution of both basic and secondary needs makes
populations easy to control-- provided you keep it at
a level below that in which the majority have nothing
to lose by killing those that are oppressing them.
Human beings hate and fear disorder more than almost
anything, including tyranny and slavery. That is why
this tactic works.

We're seeing a change, though. People are beginning
to see that they don't need to choose fear, hatred or
slavery. It isn't a choice between disorder and
order, but between life/light/love and death. We
will, as the prophet Ezekiah [I think] said, 'Choose
Life.'

Blessings and peace,
~lesley


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[Nelson]

Leslie/Shema,

A very interesting topic, and one which has very deep and hidden roots. I
highly recommend a book called "The Creature from Jekyll Island", which details
the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913, and how it violates our basic
constitution and was only designed as a pipeline of control/wealth for the power
elites of the time. I strongly agree that we are merely printing paper at
increasing levels, and barely managing to cover the interest on our debt. A
very
scary situation------technically, this system should not have lasted as long
as it has. However, I do not see a total collapse happening anytime
soon-----unless some type of huge American or world catastrophe was to occur
which
would throw our economy into shock and cause foreign investors (who have been
supporting our huge debt) to flee back to their sides of the oceans.

Bye the way, the FDIC "insurance" system is just a cover----imagine the anger
from Americans when that $100,000 of insurance does not cover the trillions
lost during the upcoming Federal Reserve collapse. Wish I was a soothsayer and
knew when to buy the gold/silver.

Other comments?
Dwight.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tony P.]

I agree, capitalism doesn't exactly work. But it's still a free will
choice. Communism is more like to work, provided the following:
judicial reform to stop punishing offenders, health care for all,
whether they will be able to return to work in kind, free higher
education, and property taxes (who really wants to pay tax on land
they own in a country they were born in?).


> It's been known for a long time that capitalism
> doesn't work. Even the venerable Adam Smith wrote
> that capitalism doesn't work in one of the later
> volumes of his "Wealth of Nations." Our markets, and

[mawk]

Hi Dwight, Lesley, Shemayet, Drew et al.,

I am pretty sure I have posted these links to the list before but I am sure
it will not hurt to do it again. There is a lot of reading to do here but
you will have a good insight into the companies, people and organizations
involved. More importantly you will get an insight into their agenda and the
ruthless degree with which they have and still are carrying it out.

Cheers,

Mawk

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/Doc/RESERVE.doc provides a very well researched
and referenced counter view that in fact the US dollar is not controlled by
the US government. If this is the case then in fact we are really looking at
a
small group of families controlling much of the worlds resources.

See the links below for also some very well researched examples of how this
may have occurred in our recent history.

The transfer of Western technology to the Eastern block:
http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/best_enemy/index.html

Wall Streets role in the rise of Hitler:
http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/index.html

American Bankers and Industrialists roles in the rise of the Bolsheviks:
http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/bolshevik_revolution/index.html

These four links seem to be a rehash of the article that I included in my
post
to Shemayet a couple of days ago.

http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/pdf/futurecalling1.pdf

http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/pdf/futurecalling2.pdf

http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/pdf/futurecalling3.pdf

http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/pdf/futurecalling4.pdf

[Lesley Schultz]

Dear Tony, L/L & Peace to All:

--- "Tony P." <doomstars@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=av_Jl-san-QVnnSAPw0qM4k4bYXcdnmhFpgGyEslnHE894dlZrmyPoD53K5Q Oe2jnaSBhKeWOCWXIso)> wrote:
> snip>> Communism is more like to work, provided the
> following: judicial reform to stop punishing
offenders, health care for all, whether they will be
able to return to work in kind, free higher
> education, and property taxes (who really wants to
> pay tax on land they own in a country they were born
in?).
>
LS: Tony, the root idea of communism is the fetishism
of the commodity. I think I posted something about
this already, and don't want to bore everyone again
with the full exposition of it. In short, a can of
beans that you purchase from your local supermarket is
not simply a container of edible foodstuffs. It's
value is not simply food to sustain your body. Many
people's labor went into creating that can of beans
and bringing it to your store for you to buy. We have
an entire category of profession, called cost
accounting, that figures out exactly how much these
efforts cost and how much the store should charge you
for it-- plus a bit of profit to keep the store
operating and pay their people, and maybe reimburse
the shareholders too.

Communism says that, when you get down to it, the
beans are what you are really interested in. Who
makes the beans? God created the earth, and by
extention the seed that grew the beans and the rain or
water that watered them. The fertilizer might be a
natural byproduct also. All of this was given to
human beings free of charge. Man does not own the
earth, or the gifts of the earth. It is given in
trust for us to use and preserve for future
generations. In emulation of this principle,
individual human beings should not own the means of
production of things like canned beans- or anything
else for that matter.

You see the problem? You're asking people to treat
things with respect, to share, to contribute as best
they can to the better health and welfare of a
community, and to treat others with the same respect
we give ourselves. Human beings have never been able
to do this for more than a short period of time, and
only in small groups. Being dependant on each other
for survival helps also in encouraging people to work
together. But even this doesn't always work.

Socialism is a sort of communism that tries to be
realistic. The philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau,
during the the Age of Enlightenment some 200 years
ago, wrote a book called "The Social Contract." What
the social contract means is that, if a government is
to remain supported by a general population, the
government must do for the people many of the things
you mention: provide justice based on law not wealth
or position, provide public education, guarantee free
choice of profession, use taxes to raise revenue but
not to use the tax revenue to engage in wars that
don't help the country or don't add value to the lives
of people. There are many other things as well. We
still use the term today [the social contract] to
describe the responsibilities that a government should
owe to the people it governs, in a system that is
supposed to be free.

Our American forefathers would say that, when
government does not fulfill its social contract, it
becomes tyranny. Then it is the responsibility and
the duty of the people to act to get rid of it.
People have responsibilities too, in a free society.
What we're seeing here is an abdication of any
responsibility for what happens, both by the
government and [by its silence and therefore
complicity] the people.

When we talk about the Bankruptcy of the United
States, we need to remember that it isn't just the
money that's gone.

Blessings and peace,
~lesley

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[srachele2003]

Lesley wrote:
> ...People are beginning
> to see that they don't need to choose fear, hatred or
> slavery...

Lesley, Sal here:

[I was going to respond to you privately, but for some reason your
email was locked out, so I'll post to the group.]

I very much enjoy your insightful comments on asc2k regarding the
economy and government. I think I have similar ideas on how we could
take the best of the 'isms' and synthesize them into something
spiritually based that still recognizes individuality and common sense.

As we both know, raising awareness is the number one priority. Most
people still want a savior or authority figure to tell them what to do
and would be lost without one. However, I envision a world where
mutual trust and respect are so normal and natural they don't even
have to be mentioned. Alas! we are ahead of our time, but after all,
that's why we're here, isn't it.

Thanks again for your wonderful posts, and I'm sure we'll have more to
discuss.

--Sal

[Nelson]

Mawk,

Thanks for the additional links-----yes, the American financial system
contains a skeleton which is quite invisible to most people.......but some day
this
skeleton just may become quite a beast when it makes its appearance to the
world........a day no one looks forward to.

Dwight.

In a message dated 01/30/2004 3:41:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mawk109@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=EcC_FGwCy1ODiMjRWcNEJCQJOVBugnGxoMNkqX sb_pl56b4jG2ZfReROr8l46nl-7PYMOT6SXpiQMDc5JV8) writes:

>
> Hi Dwight, Lesley, Shemayet, Drew et al.,
>
> I am pretty sure I have posted these links to the list before but I am sure
> it will not hurt to do it again. There is a lot of reading to do here but
> you will have a good insight into the companies, people and organizations
> involved. More importantly you will get an insight into their agenda and the
> ruthless degree with which they have and still are carrying it out.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mawk
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tobey Wheelock]

On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 10:04:10AM -0800, Lesley Schultz wrote:
> <snip>
> We know that it is possible to give all of these things to the
> population of the entire world, if those that govern us were willing to
> make the decision that this is what they wanted to do.

> <snip>
> We're seeing a change, though. People are beginning to see that they
> don't need to choose fear, hatred or slavery. It isn't a choice between
> disorder and order, but between life/light/love and death. We will, as
> the prophet Ezekiah [I think] said, 'Choose Life.'


Hello and thanks to the participants for this interesting thread and to
Lesley for this interesting post.

I agree whole-heartedly with the sentiment in the second paragraph
quoted above. But I think there maybe a misplacement of responsibility
in the first paragraph, in that those who govern us could not stand in
the way if we did not let them.

In my experience, it's hard for people to believe that it truly is
possible to feed, clothe, shelter, educate, etc. the world. Either they
believe that technology is bad and we need to revert to a much lower
population density, more agrarian lifestyle, or they think that we need
to use our technological know-how to protect ourselves from terrorists
and other bad guys.

The idea that there is peaceful, non-polluting Tesla/light technology
available (and has been for 100 years!) is very, very hard for most
people to accept, and that's why, in my opinion, those who govern us
have been so successful at suppressing it.

Respectfully,
Tobey Wheelock