Tyranny

[Tarzan]

from: jason wharton [mailto:jwharton@... (/group/asc2k/post?postid=pf_deljqnikdxprva9m6o8epsu5mztqrkrqjr2 0jjrmt9flupi3j8sc6hdsifyjo-gb3nmfdie11pufucw)]
subject: re: [asc2k] re: iraqi boy expresses free will

>i feel it not one bit of an exaggeration that the usa is the
>only power left sufficient to keep global tyranny at bay.


**huh? the bloody (literally so) us empire keeping tyranny at bay world-wide
when the it is the us empire **itself** that is guilty
of world-wide tyranny for decades!? dude, get that gummint outpost out of your
head! don't get me wrong, jason--you are an
intelligent young man--but, dude, you have the gubmint park'n outposts in cher
head--get them out! use your intelligence and
question **your own assumptions** about the true **nature and cause** those who
claim authoritative powers over not only many
millions of people world-wide, but you as well.

#1 definition of tyranny: "arbitrary or unrestrained excercise of power"--does
that ring any bells re. iraq, anyone? not to mention
afganistan, not to mention vietnam...

if you don't think that the gubmint has outposts in your head, then tell me
this: what is the nature and cause of the gubmint's
claim of authority in this country? never mind its claim of being a world
super-cop--just focus on this country. this question is
a sixth-amendment-oriented question and a vital one to be understood if one is
to understand the nature of any asserted authority by
any group, be it thugs, mugs or slugs.

i repeat the question: what is the nature and cause of this gubbymint's claim of
authority?


>it will be because our nation is overcome if real tyranny ever gets on a global
level.


tyranny already exists on a global level--it does not seem to be so because of
its covert nature, rather than an overt nature, as
intended by those real, behind-the-scene ptbs (in the case of this instant
e-mail: ptb = powerful tyrannical bastards). they've
exerted their powers unchecked for a couple of centuries now and only now are
they getting so fark'n bold-faced in their quest for
unlimited powers.

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?storyid=15770 ...this url shows how fascism
is alive and well in the land of the greed, home of
the slaves.


>i get pretty tired of the ingratitude waged at my nation, especially when
maimed
>innocents are victimized yet again to do so.


"your nation"? a classic case of the victim identifying with the victimizer.
are you referring to: 1)the states of the union,
united or, 2)the municipal corporation of the us or, 3)territorial government
of the us? all of this in this post applies
generally, not just to jason; this is not intended to be personal, but is
intended to be a bit of a jolt to one's mind so that one
could--i hope--start to **question auhtority** that has outposts in one's head.
ask questions, dammit.

what does this knarly political-flavored post have to do with spirituality?
awareness.

as for me, i'd rather be on my knees in gratitude to the creator than be on my
knees begging homeland schmecurity for mercy--and one
can wind up doing the latter if one leaves the gubbymint's outposts inside one's
head. food for thought for the next time you go
out to dinner.

~seth

[Erik Strasser]

from: jason wharton [mailto:jwharton@... (/group/asc2k/post?postid=0gpbdymdtnen8vrd1yvajrnagk999tcipqebq2 hbh6nmq7gxgugxaskdnflrp9exbo2qdxxclxduajd2)]
subject: re: [asc2k] re: iraqi boy expresses free will

>i feel it not one bit of an exaggeration that the usa is the
>only power left sufficient to keep global tyranny at bay.


**huh? the bloody (literally so) us empire keeping tyranny at bay world-wide
when the it is the us empire **itself** that is guilty
of world-wide tyranny for decades!? dude, get that gummint outpost out of your
head! don't get me wrong, jason--you are an
intelligent young man--but, dude.......

es: lets drop it here and let us use paul's writing as an example of how to deal
with it and distortions.
if not... jeremy will moderate this topic, i am sure.

erik.



[non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jason Wharton]

thanks for your input. it is clear we share a very different point of view.
i welcome your input in private on these matters. i think the asc2k list
isn't the place for this particular discussion to continue at length.

i prefer to speak of principles rather than labeling imperfect entities with
them. there isn't a person alive on earth i could call 'good' or 'bad' and
its hard to label actions 'good' or 'bad' no matter how they appear on the
surface. so as a result, i prefer not to get wound up on what would be a
never ending argument to prove something pointless to prove.

please answer the comments i insert below in private.

regards,
jason wharton
cps - computer programming solutions
mesa arizona
http://www.ibobjects.com

-- we may not have it all together --
-- but together we have it all --

----- original message -----
from: "tarzan" <tarzan@... (/group/asc2k/post?postid=oisdapnq6ivpczymkgf-ba2cfymycjzwei7x3fvfruklwksecur12ztwimzyy48dxy_as0 1bsght)>
to: <asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postid=9vnzc9tqdrfykf9o4jjaivjttj0e_yqmzem0js 3dvu2jasm8mfj8zbkgh8sawbp2cg8l3enit9vdhrn-)>
sent: wednesday, april 30, 2003 3:29 pm
subject: [asc2k] tyranny


> from: jason wharton [mailto:jwharton@... (/group/asc2k/post?postid=ollvjal2tzweni99ddho7pisreiud8dvdso3w1 kr4rz-v4wcafss0yobfjm_8-fnqyrbjh-jkl8zqlnk5oa)]
> subject: re: [asc2k] re: iraqi boy expresses free will
>
> >i feel it not one bit of an exaggeration that the usa is the
> >only power left sufficient to keep global tyranny at bay.
>
>
> **huh? the bloody (literally so) us empire keeping tyranny at bay
world-wide when the it is the us empire **itself** that is guilty
> of world-wide tyranny for decades!? dude, get that gummint outpost out of
your head! don't get me wrong, jason--you are an
> intelligent young man--but, dude, you have the gubmint park'n outposts in
cher head--get them out! use your intelligence and
> question **your own assumptions** about the true **nature and cause**
those who claim authoritative powers
> over not only many millions of people world-wide, but you as well.
>
> #1 definition of tyranny: "arbitrary or unrestrained excercise of
power"--does that ring any bells re. iraq, anyone? not to mention
> afganistan, not to mention vietnam...

what solutions would you propose for those problems?

> if you don't think that the gubmint has outposts in your head, then tell
me this: what is the nature and cause of the gubmint's
> claim of authority in this country? never mind its claim of being a world
super-cop--just focus on this country. this question is
> a sixth-amendment-oriented question and a vital one to be understood if
one is to understand the nature of any asserted authority by
> any group, be it thugs, mugs or slugs.

define authority.

> i repeat the question: what is the nature and cause of this gubbymint's
claim of authority?

our nation is a system of elected officers who are organized into a balance
of power structure. it is goverened by a rule of law and is able to morph by
the will of the people through the legislative process. those elected are
sworn into office and stand accountable before god and the nation to uphold
the laws of the land.

the usa offered multitudes of opportunities for diplomacy to have a positive
effect. usually it carries this to a fault and has in the past been too
loose with the purse strings trying to purchase solutions without casualty.
this has only had the effect of laying more fuel to a future fire like our
~wonderful~ environmentalists here in arizona.

> >it will be because our nation is overcome if real tyranny ever gets on a
global level.
>
> tyranny already exists on a global level--it does not seem to be so
because of its covert nature, rather than an overt nature, as
> intended by those real, behind-the-scene ptbs (in the case of this instant
e-mail: ptb = powerful tyrannical bastards). they've
> exerted their powers unchecked for a couple of centuries now and only now
are they getting so fark'n bold-faced in their quest for
> unlimited powers.

which kind of tyrrany would you prefer most. the kind you can only see at
deep levels if you have a keen eye (that is a part and parcel of being in
this density/matrix) or the kind that sadaam has used within his own
country. for sure it has been overt there if you get a real look.

> http://www.alternet.org/story.html?storyid=15770 ...this url shows how
fascism is alive and well in the land of the greed, home of
> the slaves.

i agree usa isn't as ideal as it used to be. it is socializing far too much
and losing its heritage to a rising sub-culture that turns my stomach. it
used to be everyone you meet with few exception was someone you could trust.
nowdays you have to watch your back pretty close. we are even having our
chickens stolen and the eggs too. morality is being lost and in a democracy
that is bound to trickle up. this is where you and i agree in part.

> >i get pretty tired of the ingratitude waged at my nation, especially when
maimed
> >innocents are victimized yet again to do so.
>
> "your nation"? a classic case of the victim identifying with the
victimizer. are you referring to: 1)the states of the union,
> united or, 2)the municipal corporation of the us or, 3)territorial
government of the us? all of this in this post applies
> generally, not just to jason; this is not intended to be personal, but is
intended to be a bit of a jolt to one's mind so that one
> could--i hope--start to **question auhtority** that has outposts in one's
head. ask questions, dammit.

when i say my government i mean the one(s) i pledge allegiance to, pay taxes
to, conduct commerce within, enjoy splendid freedoms and economic
opportunities in. i'm not in the federal level but i am pretty high up as a
govt employee (on the technical side). i know well enough the general intent
of my government because i work closely within it. on my wife's side and my
side of the family we've had very high clearance people working within the
govt. they were people of honor and integrity as well as values and
principles.

> what does this knarly political-flavored post have to do with
spirituality? awareness.

awareness of exactly what?

what are you afraid of that the usa would do to you if it had unrestrained
opportunities?

is it out to strip you of your religious/spiritual devotions? is it out to
discriminate against you on the basis of race/color/creed? is it out to
force you into slave labor and/or afford you absolutely no opportunity to
better yourself as an individual socially or economically? is it out to
enlarge its political boundries and build up an empire?

i can tell you right now, i see nothing of the sort in the works at all. the
usa has been one of the greatest achievements on this globe for supporting
all of the above values and i don't see it turning back on what it makes
available for its citizens and world communities.

my greatest concern is that her citizens are taking the privilages for
granted, becoming spoiled and defiling themselves and heading into a morasse
of moral decay. absolutely no form of government will work for a group of
people who's values and principles are debased and carnal. a people such as
this truly isn't worthy of the great freedoms we have here. this is where
the root of usa's problems lie and if you have an interest in helping then i
recommend you voice admonitions at every opportunity to people to return to
solid values and morals. when this happens, the government will follow soon
after. if it don't, then it don't matter what government we got.

> as for me, i'd rather be on my knees in gratitude to the creator than be
on my knees begging homeland schmecurity for mercy--and one
> can wind up doing the latter if one leaves the gubbymint's outposts inside
one's head. food for thought for the next time you go
> out to dinner.

begging on knees? how do you see this as becomming a reality for a
significant portion of innocent people? i mean really.

your chances would be better to get struck by lightening than to be
interrupted in life significantly if no reason for it existed.

i listen to both sides of the arguments pretty well. on one side the
arguments are rooted in sound reason atop a foundation of what leads
humankind to having opportunity for a fuller expression of fulfillment in
life. the other side of the arguments seem to be founded in emotions from
people who feel as though they have somehow been wronged and somewhere there
is for sure something to be blamed for their lack of fulfillment in life.
lots of anger easily redirected by subtly twisted arguments and deceptions.
people are being seduced into hating what's fighting for their ultimate
good. kind of like a drug infested child hating their parents and loving the
seducing drug pusher. it's plain and clear to me along these lines and
you'll have a hell of a hard time confusing me otherwise.

> ~seth