Phase shift

[John Mirehiel]

David and Group,

If I may quote from one of David's last posts:
"...as long as you make the "minimum grade" of above 50% desire to be
of service to others rather than service to self, you are "Ascension
compatible" and will phase-shift before these changes hit town."

Once again I ask that you drop by the site www.astrosite.com.
The "phase shift" which David refers to may indeed be described in
the astrological configuration of the Harmonic Concordance chart.
This phrase (phase shift) is precisely the one that I received when I
first discovered the chart in question. I know that many of you have
been "taken in" by other significant astrological configurations (see
August 11, 1999 and May 5th 2000 for example) but neither they nor
any others of the past hold the promise of this particular
configuration. The astrological data supports just such a "phase
shift." Beyond that, however, the connotations of living in that
Moment, now, is what I and others believe to be THE model of how one
becomes "Ascension compatible." Believing in fear based prophecy can
only generate states of "non-compatibility," no matter what level of
service to others one achieves. Living in the Ascended World NOW is
how one can best prepare for that "future" phase shift, the Ascension
of Mother Earth and those willing to live it.

Feedback would be nice, but is unnecessary. The site pretty much
speaks for itself, and my own convictions.

In Love, Peace and Joy
Johnny Mirehiel

[Jeremy''s mail]

John Mirehiel wrote:
>If I may quote from one of David's last posts:
>"...as long as you make the "minimum grade" of above 50% desire to be
>of service to others rather than service to self, you are "Ascension
>compatible" and will phase-shift before these changes hit town."

AND
>shift." Beyond that, however, the connotations of living in that
>Moment, now, is what I and others believe to be THE model of how one
>becomes "Ascension compatible." Believing in fear based prophecy can
>only generate states of "non-compatibility," no matter what level of
>service to others one achieves. Living in the Ascended World NOW

I certainly agree that it is important to live in the now and take
advantage of the current catalysts and situations in the present moment,
rather than constantly be waiting to be "swept off our feet" by the
Ascension. However, I don't think that this statement by Ra about Ascension
compatibility (it's orginally not David's statement) is meant to be any type
of prophecy, much less fear based; it's simply a statement about the nature
of the harvest. Unless you are polarized to X degree, you're just not
polarized enough to benefit from 4th density life and work. That's a fact.
If this causes someone to be afraid, then they don't *really* understand
what is going on, IMHO. The point, as I see it, is not necessarily to
ascend, but rather to grow in experience and polarity, if I understand Ra's
teachings correctly. We ascend/are harvested in order to facilitate this,
not the other way around.
However, that's just my opinion. I think it's important for everyone to
look at any type of channelled, "revealed truth" sort of information and go
within to see how it resonates within you. Ra never asked for complete and
total belief in the ideas he talked about; he simply wanted to give a
different slant, from a different vantage point, on things. Ra may not be
right for you if you resonate in fear upon reading things like the 50%
positive polarization item.
With that said, I agree 100% that living in the now is vitally important
to living any type of rewarding life, including one that culminates in
Ascension. My take on the polarization thing is that Ra was not trying to
say "you had better be service to others by so and so time, or you suckers
are goin round 3rd density again! HAHAHAHA." Rather, he was trying to say
that we all have work to do, and it's important to do this work NOW because,
if we plan on ascending, the work needs to be done at some point. So I
believe Ra's message is very much a message of living in the now. I mean,
if you've come to the point where you're thinking about ascension and your
own compatibility, this is just a guess, but chances are you're probably
already looking inward to the opportunities you have given yourself in this
life to polarize.
Again, John, I'm not quite sure whether you were speaking out against
Ra's "rule for ascension" ;-) or whether you were just enunciating a point
you wanted to make. Just wanted to add my opinion to the mix.
I'm also interested in discussing the wisdom Ra imparted to us through
the Law of One books, as well as David's work. Please, if you have
questions on stuff, ask (not because I have the answers, because questions
make *great* conversation starters!).
Walk in the light,
Jeremy

[John Mirehiel]

Jeremy,

First, let me thank you for your thoughtful reply. I do appreciate
it. However, I'm not quite sure, from your response, if you have
understood my comment that "...the connotations of living in that
Moment, now, is what I and others believe to be THE model of how one
becomes "Ascension compatible."

Let me try to make this clearer. The "moment" of the Ascension,
whenever it does occur, and assuming that it will occur in the near
term (let's say, for arguments sake, sometime prior to 2013) is
only a moment in time. That moment in time is, however, just
that...a moment in time. But is there ANY
esoteric/metaphysical/spiritual
teaching at all which does not tell us that Time is THE great
illusion of 3-D existence? Don't they ALL say that time is
simultaneous? If that is true, then that "Ascension Moment" is
accessible to each of us, in this moment, now. And it is really
quite simple, and not at all too simplistic nor the product of
naivetÃà‚ƒÃ ‚©.

To attain it calls for a shift, a "phase shift" if you will,
in our own attitudes and how we are willing to see the world. It is,
simply, to live as fully as one can in the state of what has been
called the "Ascension attitudes" of Love, Praise and Gratitude. Of
course, there is more to it than that, but that's the basic "square
one" of it. I fear, however, that this is not the appropriate forum
for a detailed discussion of living an Ascension life style in the
Now. If I may suggest, however, that the article "Stepping Through
the Concordance Paradox" that is posted on our site, is a very good
primer on how one may accomplish it.

You also say:
"...Unless you are polarized to X degree, you're just not polarized
enough to benefit from 4th density life and work. That's a fact."

Actually, that's a belief. There are those who will tell you that
the planet will ascend, in-toto, carrying with it all who are aboard,
regardless of their state of preparation. That too is a belief. And
those who say that one must get their full 12 strand DNA structue in
place in order to aascend. Another belief. And who, for example,
will be the arbiter of the degree to which we are polarized? The
FACT is that none of us know for sure what will happen, or to whom.

As to the issue of fear-based prophecy to which I alluded, it seems
to me that ANY "hold" on fear, whoever it is held by, is
counter-productive to the attainment of the Ascension attitudes.
Ascension is a Love-based projection. A good friend of mine who is
in the electronic surveillance business has seven 50 gallon drums of
water buried on his property and a concealed storehouse of
provisions. He is sure that "they" are going to make a run at world
control and lives with one eye over his shoulder. He thinks I'm
crazy for not preparing for the "hard rain that's gonna fall." I say,
how can anyone live in Love, Praise and Gratitude when preparing for
Armageddon? Who is more realistic, he or I?

You say:
"The point, as I see it, is not necessarily to ascend, but rather to
grow in experience and polarity, if I understand Ra's teachings
correctly. We ascend/are harvested in order to facilitate this, not
the other way around."

I say:
The point is to live as fully as one can in the Ascended world now,
in the manner described briefly above, and let the chips fall where
they may.

You say:
"...I agree 100% that living in the now is vitally important to
living any type of rewarding life, including one that culminates in
Ascension...that we all have work to do, and it's important to do
this work NOW because, if we plan on ascending, the work needs to be
done at some point."

I say:
One doesn't have to work on anything but one's own ascension, and
that that is best done by committing to living the ascended life,
once again, NOW!

In any event, Thanks so much for your thought-provoking response. If
this group is really to be a forum about Ascension issues, then all
sides of it ought to be freely discussed. Thanks for opening the
door to that discussion for me.

In Love, Pace and Joy
Johnny

[Jeremy Weiland]

Thanks for your reply, John. I, too, am highly interested in having a
discussion taking into account *all* views on ascension. You rightly
intuited that I did not fully understand your response. Although I am open
to all viewpoints, I was simply responding to your post from what I
interpreted to be Ra's teachings on the matter. Even if I did apply Ra's
teachings correctly to the topic, that still doesn't mean that it is "the
truth" but merely one version that a person can accept or reject based on
how one resonates with it. I hope there was nothing about my post that
gave you the feeling that I was "preaching" to you, as that was certainly
*not* the intention! Right now I'm studying the Ra material and that is the
stuff that's on my mind right now. Maybe I needed to open my mind up a
little to the stuff you were saying. In any case, I think I do understand
what you're saying now.
Living an ascended lifestyle generally means living a good life (I guess
if we're talking about 4D positive) and living a life that corresponds with
4D life as if it was here already, thereby bringing it into existence that
much quicker. I completely, %100 agree with that.
My point is that, although one can ascend on one's own through one's own
work on self, there is the harvest approaching very rapidly, where people
are going to be harvested 4D or 3D according to, what us, may seem a very
arbitrary quality. This is what I gather is the case by reading the Ra
material; do you not agree with this, because if you don't then we may be
talking past each other. I guess the question we really need to be asking
ourselves would be, "what is the ascension" because I get the feeling that
it's something very different to you in your mind than it is to me.
I'd like to expand on these concepts, but I really have to run now.
Just wanted to give you some feedback and thank you for the great response!
L/L
Jeremy

-----Original Message-----
From: John Mirehiel <Mirehiel@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=2WCeCq0G292X8rCb8H0ozte_y_2nk3pH_3uCpB znV4d_v-5FcQ1mG_zOGzbwY2CgIsxIFhG-N3FKsu3W_JiiaFU)>
To: asc2k@egroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=tKbIXI01PvNmu-_xafupGF2icVkVm-vPjTXMjVfVnjTPL1Uqv2Yz7mcyi_tYdaKDH5LTJm4G9nnJtg) <asc2k@egroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=tKbIXI01PvNmu-_xafupGF2icVkVm-vPjTXMjVfVnjTPL1Uqv2Yz7mcyi_tYdaKDH5LTJm4G9nnJtg)>
Date: Sunday, December 03, 2000 2:53 AM
Subject: [asc2k] Re: Phase shift


Jeremy,

First, let me thank you for your thoughtful reply. I do appreciate
it. However, I'm not quite sure, from your response, if you have
understood my comment that "...the connotations of living in that
Moment, now, is what I and others believe to be THE model of how one
becomes "Ascension compatible."

Let me try to make this clearer. The "moment" of the Ascension,
whenever it does occur, and assuming that it will occur in the near
term (let's say, for arguments sake, sometime prior to 2013) is
only a moment in time. That moment in time is, however, just
that...a moment in time. But is there ANY
esoteric/metaphysical/spiritual
teaching at all which does not tell us that Time is THE great
illusion of 3-D existence? Don't they ALL say that time is
simultaneous? If that is true, then that "Ascension Moment" is
accessible to each of us, in this moment, now. And it is really
quite simple, and not at all too simplistic nor the product of
naivetÃà‚ƒÃ ‚©.

To attain it calls for a shift, a "phase shift" if you will,
in our own attitudes and how we are willing to see the world. It is,
simply, to live as fully as one can in the state of what has been
called the "Ascension attitudes" of Love, Praise and Gratitude. Of
course, there is more to it than that, but that's the basic "square
one" of it. I fear, however, that this is not the appropriate forum
for a detailed discussion of living an Ascension life style in the
Now. If I may suggest, however, that the article "Stepping Through
the Concordance Paradox" that is posted on our site, is a very good
primer on how one may accomplish it.

You also say:
"...Unless you are polarized to X degree, you're just not polarized
enough to benefit from 4th density life and work. That's a fact."

Actually, that's a belief. There are those who will tell you that
the planet will ascend, in-toto, carrying with it all who are aboard,
regardless of their state of preparation. That too is a belief. And
those who say that one must get their full 12 strand DNA structue in
place in order to aascend. Another belief. And who, for example,
will be the arbiter of the degree to which we are polarized? The
FACT is that none of us know for sure what will happen, or to whom.

As to the issue of fear-based prophecy to which I alluded, it seems
to me that ANY "hold" on fear, whoever it is held by, is
counter-productive to the attainment of the Ascension attitudes.
Ascension is a Love-based projection. A good friend of mine who is
in the electronic surveillance business has seven 50 gallon drums of
water buried on his property and a concealed storehouse of
provisions. He is sure that "they" are going to make a run at world
control and lives with one eye over his shoulder. He thinks I'm
crazy for not preparing for the "hard rain that's gonna fall." I say,
how can anyone live in Love, Praise and Gratitude when preparing for
Armageddon? Who is more realistic, he or I?

You say:
"The point, as I see it, is not necessarily to ascend, but rather to
grow in experience and polarity, if I understand Ra's teachings
correctly. We ascend/are harvested in order to facilitate this, not
the other way around."

I say:
The point is to live as fully as one can in the Ascended world now,
in the manner described briefly above, and let the chips fall where
they may.

You say:
"...I agree 100% that living in the now is vitally important to
living any type of rewarding life, including one that culminates in
Ascension...that we all have work to do, and it's important to do
this work NOW because, if we plan on ascending, the work needs to be
done at some point."

I say:
One doesn't have to work on anything but one's own ascension, and
that that is best done by committing to living the ascended life,
once again, NOW!

In any event, Thanks so much for your thought-provoking response. If
this group is really to be a forum about Ascension issues, then all
sides of it ought to be freely discussed. Thanks for opening the
door to that discussion for me.

In Love, Pace and Joy
Johnny




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=YmbuXL3TRLHqK2Ude6CpntkP6rU8rozYlguc-jq25I18dhmKraI44iJoJ4daR-yfU75PtZWOQgIh4dWzlfQlfvb2Wnbphv4)

[Jeremy Weiland]

OK, after reading your post again (and feeding myself lunch) I think I
have a better grasp of what we're talking about here. Because I get the
feeling that we are talking "past" each other. OK, after reading your
post again (and feeding myself lunch) I think I have a better grasp of what
we're talking about here. Because I get the feeling that we are talking
"past" each other.
What does it mean to you to "ascend?" What I mean is, what is the
significance of this event, the Ascension, on mankind? Why is it happening?
What does it mean for our future development? I think how you answer the
question will determine what your opinion of ascension-compatibility is.
Obviously, all of this is just viewpoints and opinions, and I *certainly* do
not know beyond a shadow of a doubt the details of this whole process that
we're going thru. When I said that the 51% or greater polarization
requirement is a fact, I meant that it is a fact that Ra stipulated this is
the way it is; not that I am 100% certain that that is the way it is.
Since David's work is the work that I follow most closely, I am inclined
to subscribe to a paradigm that views Ascension and the related phenomena
the way Ra describes it. However, this is just my personal belief, and I in
no way, shape, or form intended to say that you were wrong for believing
what you believe. In fact, I think it's great that we're getting different
perspectives on this whole Ascension thing on this list, and I'm sure that
it is exactly David's intention not to take everything on his website as
revealed truth, but rather to analyze everything and to see if you resonate
with it. Your chosen path in this life will determine which version of the
truth you need to hear, and only you can determine what that is.
Back to the actual matter at hand, you said:

One doesn't have to work on anything but one's own ascension, and
that that is best done by committing to living the ascended life,
once again, NOW!

Now, there is a radiant, self apparent truth in this which I wouldn't
dare deny. Yes, one's life should be lived according to the highest
spiritual ideal that one can comprehend; all the world's religious and
spiritual traditions say this. And, should one's understanding of
spirituality intersect with that understanding that is normal in the 4th
density, well, great, you are living the ascended life, for all intents and
purposes, already. So if I comprehend what you're saying, it's to be the
best person that you can be, and then everything will happen the way it's
supposed to. This I cannot argue with.
To put my point another way, let me ask this rather fundamental question:
why is it neccessary to live in the Ascended world at all? Why is ascension
neccessary? What does it mean to us? As I said earlier, these questions
will determine what slant you have on the whole ascension topic. Let me
clear up my take on all of this.
Ascension is the method by which we are harvested 3D to 4D. In this way
we continue our spiritual evolution thru the densities. The whole reason we
are in 3D is to learn, grow, experience, and polarize. Ascension, IMHO, is
merely the means to an end; just as living the highest spiritual ideal in 3D
is a means to greater learning, polarization, and experience, so is
ascension into 4D a continuation of the very same goals. The point of all
of this is to polarize in order to increase the intensity of experience, so
that the Creator may better understand and experience Itself.
That's why I agree with you that we should live the best lives we can
right now, and indeed let the chips fall where they may, since divine order
will insure that they will fall where they will create the best environment
for learning, growth, and experience. I quote Ra's 51% STO polarization
rule as my best understanding of the mechanism that drives this whole
progression thru the densities. It could very well be possible that this
rule is inaccurate; maybe you don't need to polarize that much, or at all
for that matter. I just don't know for certain. However, I do know one
thing: if I live the best life I can, and strive to learn from my
experience as much as possible, then whether I ascend or not, I will always
be put in the best possible situation for me to grow and experience. I have
faith that in this, so for me the 51% polarization thing doesn't strike fear
in me. Although I would *like* to ascend when the time comes around, if I'm
not ready, I'm not ready. Like I said before, the point is not neccessarily
to Ascend ASAP; this isn't a competition. Ascension is the means to an end,
just as the experiences in our lives are a means to an end. I have faith
that my higher self will guide me to those situations where I will benefit
most towards reaching the true goals, whatever they may be.
One question I have for you: do you not view polarization as a important
goal in our experience on 3D earth? B/c if this is the case, then it would
explain a lot of confusion we may or may not have been having in trying to
talk about ascension. Again, I don't claim to have 100% certainity that the
way Ra is explaining the whole mechanism for Ascension is correct. However,
the whole concept of polarization seems to me to be very plausible and
explains a lot of the hows and whys of the universe and 3D life. My highest
understanding of the ascension phenomenon is that it is a means to greater
polarization for those who are ready, and that it will not occur for those
who are not prepared for it. Polarization is the ability to do work, as Ra
said, and it is my belief that the work of 4D is such that you need to have
a certain amount of polarization in order to be able to do it (I'm having a
hard time explaining this - does anyone want to help me out?).
One other thing: you had asked the question of who would be the arbiter
of polarization. I would state it like this: how is it decided, when you
throw a ball up, when it is to stop going up and start coming down? We
don't think of it in terms of a decision; we simply accept it as a law of
nature... in a similar way, I believe that you're either above or below the
threshold for polarization, and ascension either affects you or it doesn't.
It's not quite as arbitrary as simply a decision.
Loving this conversation, and looking forward to getting other ideas and
opinions from others on the list. Thanks again, John.
L/L,
Jeremy

-----Original Message-----
From: John Mirehiel <Mirehiel@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=C79xSoBIgMgbIrZ_G59D-NnbLiybxawzdxHnEd80rmwP57VblZtZ4HY_z7WdVYoaYJZrRja x2jTb6Wjp2_j6_Q)>
To: asc2k@egroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=lsQYFLFDNRR7eU1StF7u03q8-3XmfNLtMSEEVoSdkovON7SqrcWAUHyjWGyagbNDh160x1-HCMc4) <asc2k@egroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=lsQYFLFDNRR7eU1StF7u03q8-3XmfNLtMSEEVoSdkovON7SqrcWAUHyjWGyagbNDh160x1-HCMc4)>
Date: Sunday, December 03, 2000 2:53 AM
Subject: [asc2k] Re: Phase shift


Jeremy,

First, let me thank you for your thoughtful reply. I do appreciate
it. However, I'm not quite sure, from your response, if you have
understood my comment that "...the connotations of living in that
Moment, now, is what I and others believe to be THE model of how one
becomes "Ascension compatible."

Let me try to make this clearer. The "moment" of the Ascension,
whenever it does occur, and assuming that it will occur in the near
term (let's say, for arguments sake, sometime prior to 2013) is
only a moment in time. That moment in time is, however, just
that...a moment in time. But is there ANY
esoteric/metaphysical/spiritual
teaching at all which does not tell us that Time is THE great
illusion of 3-D existence? Don't they ALL say that time is
simultaneous? If that is true, then that "Ascension Moment" is
accessible to each of us, in this moment, now. And it is really
quite simple, and not at all too simplistic nor the product of
naivetÃà‚ƒÃ ‚©.

To attain it calls for a shift, a "phase shift" if you will,
in our own attitudes and how we are willing to see the world. It is,
simply, to live as fully as one can in the state of what has been
called the "Ascension attitudes" of Love, Praise and Gratitude. Of
course, there is more to it than that, but that's the basic "square
one" of it. I fear, however, that this is not the appropriate forum
for a detailed discussion of living an Ascension life style in the
Now. If I may suggest, however, that the article "Stepping Through
the Concordance Paradox" that is posted on our site, is a very good
primer on how one may accomplish it.

You also say:
"...Unless you are polarized to X degree, you're just not polarized
enough to benefit from 4th density life and work. That's a fact."

Actually, that's a belief. There are those who will tell you that
the planet will ascend, in-toto, carrying with it all who are aboard,
regardless of their state of preparation. That too is a belief. And
those who say that one must get their full 12 strand DNA structue in
place in order to aascend. Another belief. And who, for example,
will be the arbiter of the degree to which we are polarized? The
FACT is that none of us know for sure what will happen, or to whom.

As to the issue of fear-based prophecy to which I alluded, it seems
to me that ANY "hold" on fear, whoever it is held by, is
counter-productive to the attainment of the Ascension attitudes.
Ascension is a Love-based projection. A good friend of mine who is
in the electronic surveillance business has seven 50 gallon drums of
water buried on his property and a concealed storehouse of
provisions. He is sure that "they" are going to make a run at world
control and lives with one eye over his shoulder. He thinks I'm
crazy for not preparing for the "hard rain that's gonna fall." I say,
how can anyone live in Love, Praise and Gratitude when preparing for
Armageddon? Who is more realistic, he or I?

You say:
"The point, as I see it, is not necessarily to ascend, but rather to
grow in experience and polarity, if I understand Ra's teachings
correctly. We ascend/are harvested in order to facilitate this, not
the other way around."

I say:
The point is to live as fully as one can in the Ascended world now,
in the manner described briefly above, and let the chips fall where
they may.

You say:
"...I agree 100% that living in the now is vitally important to
living any type of rewarding life, including one that culminates in
Ascension...that we all have work to do, and it's important to do
this work NOW because, if we plan on ascending, the work needs to be
done at some point."

I say:
One doesn't have to work on anything but one's own ascension, and
that that is best done by committing to living the ascended life,
once again, NOW!

In any event, Thanks so much for your thought-provoking response. If
this group is really to be a forum about Ascension issues, then all
sides of it ought to be freely discussed. Thanks for opening the
door to that discussion for me.

In Love, Pace and Joy
Johnny




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=b8oivmvceSVuvzS7UkHmJ6TKt1bTJ0nDSgutLh nLQ_jzAp4XOu97FOsuIfbK8EVftj6YD5_D_WXMjqFOCo6vs14g oGmy)

[John Mirehiel]

Jeremy,

Once again, thanks for a very thoughtful and thought provoking
response. I will do my best to keep my piece of this string going.
Unfortunately, I will be out of town this Tuesday and Wednesday and
will not be able to keep up on it until later in the week. But for
now, I can at least make a beginning.

After re-reading you second post, I don't think we're all that far
apart. But for now, let's start with some kind of articulation of
what the Ascension is. To answer your fundamental question, no, it's
not at all necessary, to live an ascended life. One can put it off
as one wishes. I do because I like it. Simple as that. But here I
must first say that I have figuratively "thrown away" all of the
print and cyber materials on it. My definition of Ascension has
arisen out of my more than 30 years of a rather eclectic chosen path
towards "adeptship," and, therefore it is not based on any one
source. So with apologies to all the enlightened teachers who
collectively have opened my heart to it, I offer this seemingly
simple definition:

The Ascension is one step, and one step only, in the natural
evolution of any ascending monad.

Now, what that means, however, is not so simple. As I see it, every
being existing apart from the Body of the Mighty I Am, whether they
be 3rd, 5th, or 13th dimensional (you might say "density") creatures
(and who of us really know how many dimensions there are) is involved
in their own dimension shifting Ascensions throughout time and
eternity. We, who are aware of the only dimension that we can
precieve, 3D, quite naturally think of the Ascension as an event that
will carry us to the next phase (see my earlier comment on the "phase
shift"), which we assume will be into the next higher corporeal
dimension. (For us, that would be 5D, 4D being the non-corporeal
astral dimension.) Each stage of evolution implies a succeeding
Ascension in a multi-dimnsional Universe of Universes, until we come
to rest, finally, in the Body of the Mighty I Am. But we only REST
there, for as emanations of that Body of "God," we must again rise up
into form, emulate that God, and step back again into our own Godlike
role of co-creators of the universe.

So, as I see it, the Ascension is not at all a "one time thing." We
experience countless a phase shifts of consciousness. Now
consciousness is not limited to the thing that we know of as a human
being. For example, Mother Earth is also a conscious, sentient
being, as are the very stars from which we are made. So planets, and
stars and spirits of all dimensions are equally within the
Ascensional stream. This is why all the literature suggests that
Mother Earth has chosen to ascend in time, at whatever date Her
appointment with destiny may be. (Of course, I think that date shows
up very nicely in the Concordance chart.) But now here's the kicker
in this piece of the pie: that ascended planet, and those ascended
beings who inhabit Her, already exist is their pristine ascended
state. If the Ascension is something that has a date to it, a time
when it will occur, then it is an event that already exists since all
time is simutaneous. It is only our consciousness of being in a non-
ascended state that keeps us from living in that already existing
state of Ascension. And this is where I differ rather sharply from
the Ra materials.

For me, it matters not one whit how much I am "polarized" or to what
degree I am in service to others. I will be polarized and in service
to others only to the extent that my consciousness is aware of how
much I am a co-creating child of God. For me, Ra has it upside
down. Become aware of who you really are, and your polarization will
follow. Not the other way around. Further, I will be the harvester,
not the harvested. Yes, we are in 3D to "...learn, grow, experience,
and polarize..." but we are also doing the same throughout the
entirety of the multi-dimensional universe, and we are there in all
those places - now. Perhaps I don't fully inderstand what Ra means
by the term "polarize," but that word doesn't sit well with me. Help
me out here, because I do agree that the whole purpose of having been
created is "...so that the Creator may better understand and
experience Itself." Sort of like the old Catholic Baltimore
Catechism that says: "God made me so that I can know, love and serve
Him, in this world, and the next."

Actually, I'm not really saying "...be the best person that you can
be, and then everything will happen the way it's supposed to." It
may only be a subtle difference, but to me it is a very distinct
one. What I am saying is that I have stopped thinking of myself as a
limited human being, working on being the best person that I can be.
I am an ascended being, a Christ as much as any Christ, a Buddha,
Krishna or any other enlightened soul who ever walked the planet.
And I am nothing special at all. Everyone else is that personage
too. Doesn't Jesus tell us that he is like an older brother? Don't
all the teachers tell us that the kingdom of heaven is within? Well,
I take them all at face value, and just say so. I do not claim any
magical powers, but I manifest things right and left in my life. I
am also a healer, and a teacher and an adept, the "hollow reed" that
opens to the flow of truth. But then, so is everyone else. So are
you.

I live in a place that my wife and I have called "Eden." (there's
even a sign outside the house that we made that proclaims it.) She
too is an ascended master, and we live together in an ascended
relationship that is the envy of all who know us. We still put our
pants on one leg at a time, just like everyone else. But we are
different because we really do believe, and live as though, we are
more than human beings. And our life together demonstrates the truth
of what we openly avow. And no, we are not delusional. Joy is a
staedy state for us. Daily we take the stance that we live in the
ascended world, now, and are both immensely greatful for having
arrived here and having our lives be so blessed. This is what I
believe to be the path to Ascension, and if it polarizes me, fine.
But I don't care and I don't work for it (polarization) either. Like
I said, Love, Praise and Gratitude. And when the time comes for our
appointment in Samara, we'll be there, in that same state of mind,
because we are there now.

And I have been to the Ascended Mother Earth too. But that will have
to wait for another time. It grows late.

Please do keep this string going. And I too hope others will jump
aboard. And if not, there's always the Harmonic Concordance e-group
for those so inclined.

Blessings in Love, Peace and Joy brother,
Johnny

[David Dodson]

Just to add my $0.005 to this discussion on Ascension I must admit that to
me it seems there is to much focus on getting it right. Well what do I mean
by this? My main criticism of most organized religion is that each of the
want to proclaim they know "the" answer. The same these days seems to be
ringing true in the circle of folk seeking ascension. This to me seems
rather silly. Well let me back up and inform you of my bias. Generally
speaking, I hold no belief in any aspect of what we might call reality. To
me it is just the single greatest illusion we've all been witness to. With
this I include not just the physical states but also the mental states which
result from the physical states. I say with certainty that there is only
one thing which can be said with certainty (that is a bit of a joke) - there
exists conciousness of which I am a part. I'll return to this in a second.

But first what of this illusion? It is amazing, in that it is able to
account for the infinite number of perspectives which exist in space in any
given time with the utmost of accuracy. I mean its not just the illusion of
my perspective (though I could also claim this it doesn't do me any good
when speaking with people) but the illusion of every perspective. If these
illusions were beams of light the interference pattern created by the
infinite illusions would make up what we call reality. Just looking now at
these interference patterns they seems pretty solid (another attempt at a
joke). But yet and still I could imagine them not being, even more I can
imagine them being just as solid but with a slight (or a major) difference.
Then that they remain seemingly consistent is a function of this
conciousness which I proclaim to be a part of.

But what then of this conciousness? Well the biggest illusion is that the
conciousness is mine. We say 'I am concious!' Yeah right. We don't even
know what that means, but we attribute it to the ability to intuit and
process thoughts and emotions. Yet we notice that this is happening around
us seemingly all the time. What of these other conciousnesses which are
able to act on me? Are they any different than mine? Well no, except they
have a different perspective. So then are our conciousnesses of the same?
Exactly from different perspectives. Every perspective is a different
perspective of conciousness. As a proof of this search for a perspective
which does not need conciousness to perceive (this is impossible).

I won't scare everyone with my no free will speech (though if someone cares
to challenge that point it is a favorite of mine) but I will end with a
little on ascension. Here's a question: How can you perceive the whole
universe? There are actually two answers to this 1. as the whole universe
or 2. from outside of the whole universe. Assuming what I've said about the
universe being an illusion I'd have to stand by the second answer. This is
what is ascension, transcending the illusion. This is very hard because
generally speaking everything you know is a function of the illusion. In
order to ascend you have to renounce everything you know. Many would take
this to mean an illimination of material wealth, denial of family and the
such. That in my opinion is fanaticsm. My take would be that in order to
ascend you have to first recognize the function of the illusion, in doing
this you can walk in accordance with it. You stop fighting it. I think
this is what John was alluding to in his posts. But I say that as you are
walking and traveling with the illusion, you are really (?) still learning
to accept that it is an illusion. Put another way, to walk with it you
believe that it is an illusion and you are allowing it to prove your belief.
The moment of ascension however, is when you know and knowing is hard. I
won't go into how hard right here but trust me its hard.

I haven't even touched on the concept of harvest in here, maybe later.

Incarnations
Korga

__________________________________________________ ______________________________\
_____
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

[Donn.Byrne@...]

This is the first entry I have actually been able
to read all the way through, for the reason stated
so succinctly in your second sentence. And all the
rest as well. I understand what you say perfectly,
I really do!

Only age and experience bring wisdom; intelligence
is a bonus. It seems you have some of both, friend.

Thanks for putting it out there.


--- In asc2k@egroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=s0d1IvkziCLYKUNqn0Lv6QZqiKY_xUBwFNM5hQ NqTqI-z4k1NE6QkxZmu0fr19tHP1jDVwGM6ZM), "David Dodson" <korga@h...> wrote:
> Just to add my $0.005 to this discussion on Ascension I must admit
that to
> me it seems there is to much focus on getting it right. Well what
do I mean
> by this? My main criticism of most organized religion is that each
of the
> want to proclaim they know "the" answer. The same these days seems
to be
> ringing true in the circle of folk seeking ascension. This to me
seems
> rather silly. Well let me back up and inform you of my bias.
Generally
> speaking, I hold no belief in any aspect of what we might call
reality. To
> me it is just the single greatest illusion we've all been witness
to. With
> this I include not just the physical states but also the mental
states which
> result from the physical states. I say with certainty that there is
only
> one thing which can be said with certainty (that is a bit of a joke)
- there
> exists conciousness of which I am a part. I'll return to this in a
second.
>
> But first what of this illusion? It is amazing, in that it is able
to
> account for the infinite number of perspectives which exist in space
in any
> given time with the utmost of accuracy. I mean its not just the
illusion of
> my perspective (though I could also claim this it doesn't do me any
good
> when speaking with people) but the illusion of every perspective.
If these
> illusions were beams of light the interference pattern created by
the
> infinite illusions would make up what we call reality. Just looking
now at
> these interference patterns they seems pretty solid (another attempt
at a
> joke). But yet and still I could imagine them not being, even more
I can
> imagine them being just as solid but with a slight (or a major)
difference.
> Then that they remain seemingly consistent is a function of this
> conciousness which I proclaim to be a part of.
>
> But what then of this conciousness? Well the biggest illusion is
that the
> conciousness is mine. We say 'I am concious!' Yeah right. We
don't even
> know what that means, but we attribute it to the ability to intuit
and
> process thoughts and emotions. Yet we notice that this is happening
around
> us seemingly all the time. What of these other conciousnesses which
are
> able to act on me? Are they any different than mine? Well no,
except they
> have a different perspective. So then are our conciousnesses of the
same?
> Exactly from different perspectives. Every perspective is a
different
> perspective of conciousness. As a proof of this search for a
perspective
> which does not need conciousness to perceive (this is impossible).
>
> I won't scare everyone with my no free will speech (though if
someone cares
> to challenge that point it is a favorite of mine) but I will end
with a
> little on ascension. Here's a question: How can you perceive the
whole
> universe? There are actually two answers to this 1. as the whole
universe
> or 2. from outside of the whole universe. Assuming what I've said
about the
> universe being an illusion I'd have to stand by the second answer.
This is
> what is ascension, transcending the illusion. This is very hard
because
> generally speaking everything you know is a function of the
illusion. In
> order to ascend you have to renounce everything you know. Many
would take
> this to mean an illimination of material wealth, denial of family
and the
> such. That in my opinion is fanaticsm. My take would be that in
order to
> ascend you have to first recognize the function of the illusion, in
doing
> this you can walk in accordance with it. You stop fighting it. I
think
> this is what John was alluding to in his posts. But I say that as
you are
> walking and traveling with the illusion, you are really (?) still
learning
> to accept that it is an illusion. Put another way, to walk with it
you
> believe that it is an illusion and you are allowing it to prove your
belief.
> The moment of ascension however, is when you know and knowing is
hard. I
> won't go into how hard right here but trust me its hard.
>
> I haven't even touched on the concept of harvest in here, maybe
later.
>
> Incarnations
> Korga
>
>
__________________________________________________ ____________________
_______________
> Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com

[Jeremy Weiland]

Thanks for your input, Korga. I know it can look a little silly for us
to be discussing something like Ascension, with very little common ground
among all the different opinions. It must seem a little presumptuous for us
to dare to think that we might be able to "get it right." But then that's
the whole reason I'm on this plane; to come as close as I can to getting it
right. Yes this plane is a vast illusion, and the best way to experience it
is to go with the flow and stop fighting it. But how do you go with it if
you don't understand it? Ascension is one of the real insights into the
impermenance of reality; proof that reality is far more expansive, massive,
and mysterious than we could even imagine. It is only natural that we would
want to understand it. And since David's work is all about Ascension, it is
a natural topic for this list.
However I don't think anyone here is saying "I'm right and you're wrong"
like we're at a revival or something. Just different perspectives on the
truth which is always the same, like Ra said. I think David is exerting a
lot of tolerance by letting all these different perspectives and beliefs
about Ascension and other topics co-exist on this list, especially since his
work articulates very specific ideas and theories about ascension. This
says a lot about the quality of the work he is doing and his confidence in
it. So keep the discussion going, and don't ever think that anyone is
trying to tell you "how it is." We're just not going to let our ignorance
stop us from getting as close to the truth as we can.
Later,
Jeremy

<korga@h...> wrote:
> > Just to add my $0.005 to this discussion on Ascension I must admit
> that to
> > me it seems there is to much focus on getting it right. Well what
> do I mean
> > by this? My main criticism of most organized religion is that each
> of the
> > want to proclaim they know "the" answer. The same these days seems
> to be
> > ringing true in the circle of folk seeking ascension. This to me
> seems
> > rather silly. Well let me back up and inform you of my bias.
> Generally
> > speaking, I hold no belief in any aspect of what we might call
> reality. To
> > me it is just the single greatest illusion we've all been witness
> to. With
> > this I include not just the physical states but also the mental
> states which
> > result from the physical states. I say with certainty that there is
> only
> > one thing which can be said with certainty (that is a bit of a joke)
> - there
> > exists conciousness of which I am a part. I'll return to this in a
> second.
> >
> > But first what of this illusion? It is amazing, in that it is able
> to
> > account for the infinite number of perspectives which exist in space
> in any
> > given time with the utmost of accuracy. I mean its not just the
> illusion of
> > my perspective (though I could also claim this it doesn't do me any
> good
> > when speaking with people) but the illusion of every perspective.
> If these
> > illusions were beams of light the interference pattern created by
> the
> > infinite illusions would make up what we call reality. Just looking
> now at
> > these interference patterns they seems pretty solid (another attempt
> at a
> > joke). But yet and still I could imagine them not being, even more
> I can
> > imagine them being just as solid but with a slight (or a major)
> difference.
> > Then that they remain seemingly consistent is a function of this
> > conciousness which I proclaim to be a part of.
> >
> > But what then of this conciousness? Well the biggest illusion is
> that the
> > conciousness is mine. We say 'I am concious!' Yeah right. We
> don't even
> > know what that means, but we attribute it to the ability to intuit
> and
> > process thoughts and emotions. Yet we notice that this is happening
> around
> > us seemingly all the time. What of these other conciousnesses which
> are
> > able to act on me? Are they any different than mine? Well no,
> except they
> > have a different perspective. So then are our conciousnesses of the
> same?
> > Exactly from different perspectives. Every perspective is a
> different
> > perspective of conciousness. As a proof of this search for a
> perspective
> > which does not need conciousness to perceive (this is impossible).
> >
> > I won't scare everyone with my no free will speech (though if
> someone cares
> > to challenge that point it is a favorite of mine) but I will end
> with a
> > little on ascension. Here's a question: How can you perceive the
> whole
> > universe? There are actually two answers to this 1. as the whole
> universe
> > or 2. from outside of the whole universe. Assuming what I've said
> about the
> > universe being an illusion I'd have to stand by the second answer.
> This is
> > what is ascension, transcending the illusion. This is very hard
> because
> > generally speaking everything you know is a function of the
> illusion. In
> > order to ascend you have to renounce everything you know. Many
> would take
> > this to mean an illimination of material wealth, denial of family
> and the
> > such. That in my opinion is fanaticsm. My take would be that in
> order to
> > ascend you have to first recognize the function of the illusion, in
> doing
> > this you can walk in accordance with it. You stop fighting it. I
> think
> > this is what John was alluding to in his posts. But I say that as
> you are
> > walking and traveling with the illusion, you are really (?) still
> learning
> > to accept that it is an illusion. Put another way, to walk with it
> you
> > believe that it is an illusion and you are allowing it to prove your
> belief.
> > The moment of ascension however, is when you know and knowing is
> hard. I
> > won't go into how hard right here but trust me its hard.
> >
> > I haven't even touched on the concept of harvest in here, maybe
> later.
> >
> > Incarnations
> > Korga
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________ ____________________
> _______________
> > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
> http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=m8M982z7FB6cPNlqojcQqvpIOtmXJDzmZY9888 rJNBA56t8TLPfqOYt8QxbnhW0XaTIFIA78-n5elXxrWr3zNauc3A)
>
>
>

[korga@...]

> It must seem a little presumptuous for us
> to dare to think that we might be able to "get it right." But then that's
> the whole reason I'm on this plane; to come as close as I can to getting it
> right. Yes this plane is a vast illusion, and the best way to experience it
> is to go with the flow and stop fighting it. But how do you go with it if
> you don't understand it?

Flowing with it is coming to understand it. Why must we understand it in order
to flow with it? The defining of it
automatically limits one's perception of the flow as it's flow has to find its
way in to your definition. Flowing in the
undefined however brings you closer to it because you can never define it and
never understand it, the closest
you can come is being it.

> Ascension is one of the real insights into the
> impermenance of reality; proof that reality is far more expansive, massive,
> and mysterious than we could even imagine. It is only natural that we would
> want to understand it.

Ascension has nothing to do with reality.

> However I don't think anyone here is saying "I'm right and you're wrong"

Actually I think we (including myself) are. We want as much as we can to be
objective and we verbally express
ourselves objectively but deep down each and everyone of us believes they are
right and if something is in
contradiction to us it doesn't neccessarily be wrong but we have to believe it
is further from truth than we are.
Reminding ourselves of this is important otherwise we may really start becoming
delusional in the illusional (I kill
myself...)

> like we're at a revival or something. Just different perspectives on the
> truth which is always the same, like Ra said. I think David is exerting a
> lot of tolerance by letting all these different perspectives and beliefs
> about Ascension and other topics co-exist on this list, especially since his
> work articulates very specific ideas and theories about ascension.

Which is why I'm sad we won't be getting much interaction for him for a while.
His is an amazing perspective.

> So keep the discussion going, and don't ever think that anyone is
> trying to tell you "how it is." We're just not going to let our ignorance
> stop us from getting as close to the truth as we can.

That's a really interesting sentence (the last one).

I don't have the time right now but maybe later I do want to pose a few
questions to the group to keep the
discussion going if folk don't mind. Maybe about free will... That's a scary
one I must admit. If people would
rather I not go into that I'd understand but as it regards ascension I think it
is very important.

Incarnations
Korga

[Jeremy Weiland]

> Flowing with it is coming to understand it. Why must we understand it in
order to flow with it? The defining of it
> automatically limits one's perception of the flow as it's flow has to find
its way in to your definition. Flowing in the
> undefined however brings you closer to it because you can never define it
and never understand it, the closest
> you can come is being it.

So are you saying that we should stop thinking and talking about
metaphysics and studying ascension, since any understanding of it would be
useless, anyway? I'm not sure I get what you're saying about "flowing in
the undefined." I mean, I know that *real* reality is something that is way
way beyond my conscious comprehension, but I have *no* idea what it means to
flow in the undefined. I mean, the fact that it is undefined means that we,
in our limited linear thinking, can't flow *completely* in it. To put it
another way, I can't decide whether you're saying that the perspective and
definition of ascension that I'm talking about is wrong, or that *any*
perspective and definition of ascension (and reality and all that) in this
world would neccessarily have to be wrong.
I don't lend any more credence to my 3D, linear thoughts than anyone
else's, but I know that, if I have a certain "distorted" perspective, that
the distortion exists for a reason: the distortion is an obstacle to be
overcome, not a barrier to shy away from.

> Ascension has nothing to do with reality.

So Ascension is not real?

> Actually I think we (including myself) are. We want as much as we can to
be objective and we verbally express
> ourselves objectively but deep down each and everyone of us believes they
are right and if something is in
> contradiction to us it doesn't neccessarily be wrong but we have to
believe it is further from truth than we are.
> Reminding ourselves of this is important otherwise we may really start
becoming delusional in the illusional (I kill
> myself...)

If we label things "right" and "wrong" then we are falling into the trap of
judgement, or of making distinctions where in reality there are none. There
are no mistakes, as Ra says, and all is acceptable. Everyone is at exactly
the place in their understanding that they need to be, and they hold all the
wisdom, ideas, and intellect that they, at their level, are capable of using
most efficiently. It's not a matter of "right" or "wrong", it's simply
people sharing their perspectives and providing catalyst to think in new and
different ways.

> I don't have the time right now but maybe later I do want to pose a few
questions to the group to keep the
> discussion going if folk don't mind. Maybe about free will... That's a
scary one I must admit. If people would

Sounds like a philosophy lecture on the way folks :-) By all means, nothing
is too scary for Asc2k!!!
L/L
Jeremy

[korga@...]

> Sounds like a philosophy lecture on the way folks :-)

Funny you should say that because generally speaking I think a little philosophy
may be just what we need. (By
the way, yes I am a philosopher for lack of better words)

> So are you saying that we should stop thinking and talking about
> metaphysics and studying ascension, since any understanding of it would be
> useless, anyway?

Actually what I'm saying is that you're going to do what you're going to do.
The closer you get to ascension the
clearer that becomes.

> I'm not sure I get what you're saying about "flowing in
> the undefined." I mean, I know that *real* reality is something that is way
> way beyond my conscious comprehension, but I have *no* idea what it means to
> flow in the undefined. I mean, the fact that it is undefined means that we,
> in our limited linear thinking, can't flow *completely* in it.

This last line of yours is an assumption but not true. Proof - Does a child
need to define the excretory process
and the importance of removing waste from the body in order to relieve
themselves or will they just flow with it?

> To put it
> another way, I can't decide whether you're saying that the perspective and
> definition of ascension that I'm talking about is wrong, or that *any*
> perspective and definition of ascension (and reality and all that) in this
> world would neccessarily have to be wrong.

Closer to the latter but not quite. Here's somewhat what I mean but not
quite.... What you are calling a
definition really is a metaphor which serves the function of helping you
understand. Talk, think, read, whatever
you must do you'll keep doing it to help shape that metaphor. But the moment
you try to reify that metaphor,
well then you're wrong (not really but you've begun backtracking). Put another
way, your metaphor, your
perspective is like the perfect mandala. Study it, study it hard, but don't
worship it like the word because then
you'll never be able to destroy it [For those unfamiliar with mandala's they are
(really short definition) pieces of
art used to express the universe in meditation as catalysts on the path of
enlightenment. When the practitioner
can recognize the truth of the mandala they are instructed to destroy it. The
reason for this is that if they
continue they will reify (or deify) the mandala, believing that the mandala is
enlightenment and not just the tool]

> I don't lend any more credence to my 3D, linear thoughts than anyone
> else's, but I know that, if I have a certain "distorted" perspective, that
> the distortion exists for a reason: the distortion is an obstacle to be
> overcome, not a barrier to shy away from.

Ummmmm.... okay, sort of. See we always have a distorted view, we're viewing
distortion, interference, illusion.
And yes that distortion does exist for a reason. And at least at ascension that
will be overcome. But I'm not sure
where you're going with "not a barrier to shy away from." You seem to think
that its some sort of struggle. You
think you have to conquor your ignorance with definition. But if definitions
are your weapons how effective can
they possibly be on the undefinable. A knife fight with water.
>
> > Ascension has nothing to do with reality.
>
> So Ascension is not real?
>

Ascension transcends reality and thus cannot be viewed in real terms. It is
real, but by no means in the way you
would 'define' real.

> If we label things "right" and "wrong" then we are falling into the trap of
> judgement, or of making distinctions where in reality there are none. There
> are no mistakes, as Ra says, and all is acceptable. Everyone is at exactly
> the place in their understanding that they need to be, and they hold all the
> wisdom, ideas, and intellect that they, at their level, are capable of using
> most efficiently. It's not a matter of "right" or "wrong", it's simply
> people sharing their perspectives and providing catalyst to think in new and
> different ways.

I agree completely. All I would add though is that as easy as it is to say all
of that, you (nor I) don't know it. We
believe it, and we can say it with conviction, but the reason we say it is with
the hope that at some point we will
know it. And once we know it, well that's it. That's ascension.

> By all means, nothing
> is too scary for Asc2k!!!

Here's a beginning question on the topic of free will:

When was the lat time you didn't do what you did?

Put another way...

Can you not do what you are going to do?

Incarnations
Korga

[madonnafra]

Note from moderator: This message was considerably over the allowed length and
has been snipped to conform to our rules.

[snip]..our outward appearance became a focus of attention instead of our inner
beauty. The mirror became a tool used for either stroking our egos or self
criticism depending on how we felt about our reflection in the mirror.

Our Spiritual image took a backseat to our outer covering and Humanity took a
detour down a side road of comparing ourselves to others that either leads us to
self-satisfaction or self-loathing depending on how we feel we measure up
against the illusion of bodily perfection. What a mirror will never reflect is
our character; our hearts and our Souls. These are the most integral parts of
us all and what matter most in GOD's eyes.
To read the rest of the Message go to:
_http://www.freewebs.com/ourcommondenominator/home.html_
(http://www.freewebs.com/ourcommondenominator/home.html)

[madonnafra]

Then it isn't for you. Thats Cool! I always encourage each and every person
to follow their own Guidance from within not from anyone or anything outside
themselves.
Love and Blessings,
Gayle
GS5555
Texas Wind


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Petrus]

----- Original Message -----
From: <gs5555@... (/group/asc2k/post?postID=W7HXwDbgSEVvz3_Wu3vCYPv8IejxqFfPpXRFG8 df0KW8hc0mB-sHxd6SeFRT9x71ATHDKVbM)>
To: <asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=4142TYjjMBWwKXZw5ihjd9EJ1cYsakpsEkQvJF Jq3Uhbif8TbUMw0Kqn0-Zi_Um2HukTE9od6wbQqZuN9JUGSg)>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 12:49 PM
Subject: [asc2k] Phase Shift


> Note from moderator: This message was considerably over the allowed length
and has been snipped to conform to our rules.

This feels like channelled material. I'm also hearing internal warning
bells while reading it, for some reason. I think because I usually expect
channelled material from positive sources to be clear/discoverable, i.e.
something which I am able to read and understand. This on the other hand is
giving me a headache when I try and figure out what it means.

"GOD told me to think about the statement about not being able to see the
forest for the trees. I was told to turn it around and recognize the danger
in expending mental energy toward too big a picture. We feel overwhelmed and
powerless if we look at our lives through too wide a scope and attempt to
rely on our own understanding to figure out what to do next."

This is disempowering, IMHO. It's telling us we can't figure things out on
our own and thus need someone else to do it for us...Ergo, promotion of
finding an STS figure to be controlled by. Of course we need advice from
other people at times, and guidance is very often good. The point however
is that we should be able to make a choice as to who we listen to. Telling
people that they *have* to find a guru because they're too blind to be able
to see anything themselves is promotion of STS, IMHO.

"The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He
calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all
his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they
know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will
run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." (John
10:3,4,5)

[madonnafra]

A friend told me an interesting story about sheep. There was an experiment
run at some point where a board was put up on a gate at a height great enough
that the sheep would have to jump in order to get over it. A portion of
sheep leapt over the board and then the board was removed leaving the gate wide
open. A great number of sheep continued to leap to the height that the board
had been before it was removed.

Our understanding, if based only on what we see, feel, taste, hear, or
smell, is limited. We will be like the sheep and continue to follow patterns
that
we have observed in the behavior of others or stay stuck in old patterns of
our own. Instead we are better off looking and listening within to walk our
own Path apart from the madding crowd.

Jesus would not be even an afterthought if he hadn't had his disciples and
continue to have them to this day. It is the love and devotion of his
disciples throughout the years that has elevated him to the power position that
he
is today.

Love and Blessings,
Gayle
GS5555
Texas Wind


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Petrus]

Hi Gayle,
I'm glad I didn't upset you...it was just what I got from it.
*hugs*

[Lynn]

We feel overwhelmed and powerless if we look at our lives through too wide a
scope and attempt to rely on our own understanding to figure out what to do
next."

Petrus, thank you for your reply, quoting John:

"The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He
calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his
own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his
voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from
him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." (John 10:3,4,5)

Perfect point, counterpoint, I agree, we can rely upon our own intuitive
understanding to recognize the voice of our shepherds. I wonder, would Jesus
have been Christ without his disciples?

always,
lynn



The examined life is worth living!

Tell Congress: Don't abandon pets in disasters!
http://go.care2.com/50041

http://www.Care2.com Free e-mail. 100MB storage. Helps charities.