Prayer

[Starface]

i've been thinking a lot lately about prayer and its effects.
is bathing the world in love and light a psychic attack on those not
wishing to receive it? is sending love and light to someone
consciously choosing the negative path an attack? pray for world
peace even though many do not desire it?

i don't know the answers to these questions. i suppose negative
entities can use prayer to their benefit as well? or would we call
those spells? well regardless when i pray for people or anything
right now i end with "if they desire to receive it". what are your
thoughts on this?

love and light (should you desire to receive it lol), frank

[Lynn Ferguson]

i gave this issue considerable thought many years ago when i was involved
with eckankar. we were at a worldwide eckankar conference and a sincere
group of christians were picketing us outside the hotel. having been
raised as a methodist and presbyterian, and attending the catholic church
with my mother and friends, and giving sermons as a youth, i understood
why they would feel like they had to protest our conference. i wanted
to talk with them, so i did; and as i explained to them that jesus was
considered one of the masters in eckankar and that perhaps they had overlooked
some important points about this spiritual path, they changed from protesting
to avid discussion. it was wonderful. it ended on a high note of each
of us respecting one another's spiritual paths and traditions and honoring
the reasons without making anyone right or wrong. at first they were
going to pray for us, but i suggested that this idea went against the
teachings of jesus. what i tried to convey, was that the original use
of prayer and contemplation by jesus and the mystery schools was to create
what the individual desired for him/herself in his/her own life. further,
that the initiates/disciples were taught that unless one was asked and
permission was given, they did not use prayer to bring about a change
in another person's reality. if they were asked, for instance, to assist
in healing; then they applied the prayer request and put their energy
into the collective thought. above all else, to allow and honor one's
own and all others' choices was to acknowledge the spiritual law of free
will. just as you would want someone to respect your choices in your
life and not try to change you, you also learned to accept and allow
others their own choices and paths. freedom was celebrated in this manner.
the christians decided they wouldn't invade our spiritual domain without
our permission, and did not pray for us. i was quite satisfied with
that, as i didn't want to have to expend any extra energy to block their
thought forms and deflect their energy.

i have seen many kirlian pictures and the work of ann moss that shows
how one's thoughts and emotions alters and affects another person's energy
field and from that, their physical health. dr. marcel vogel also did
research that showed how plants responded to thought and the intent of
a human being. all life is sentient. so it makes perfect sense to me,
that we rise above the need or desire to change something or someone
outside ourselves to be what we want or expect them to be. i see this
as a sign of spiritual maturity. although if asked, then i feel it is
of great service to assist with all that i am to achieve a common goal
and result - because i have seen the power when spiritual work is done
as a group of two or more. i often have done this when requested for
healing and for discovering information through remote view in various
projects.

i work with children on peace projects, and the first thing we discuss
is that true and lasting peace can only come from within. the work we
do is selected based upon this core ideal. for me, this comes from my
personal experience in healing. if you interrupt the experience and
interfere with the natural progression of a process, without resolving
or changing the attitude and emotion behind it, the causal factors if
you will; then the disease or imbalance will manifest in a paired organ
or system and seek its expression in another way. so whether it is a
war between two countries or a war within the body, until the causal
thoughtform and attitude is addressed, the condition will continue to
manifest in some way. if i put myself inbetween any party, i must also
take responsibility for all that's involved in understanding that thoughtform
- and take on the resulting manifestation for furthering my understanding.
personally, i don't want to take on anyone else's 'karma' or 'dharma',
as my path is unique to me as their path is unique to them.

i appreciate the addendum you've placed on your prayers, "if they desire
to receive it". that qualifies the direction and force of your own personal
energy and power. it also demonstrates your respect for the choice you
would give to others, to accept your precious gift or reject it. i have
found that the misuse or abuse of the energy of the third seal (the experience
of power) to be the fulcrum for most of the people on the planet right
now. i recall sri chinmoy saying something like: when the power of
love replaces the love of power, we will have made a great leap in our
awareness - my paraphrasing.

in my spiritual training, i have been instructed that my power, my energy
directed by consciousness...is to be used to create my own personal reality,
and to allow all others the same opportunity to be co-creators with the
living god within them. my training holds that the subconscious mind
is seated in the lower cerebellum, and that to tap into and become one
with the mind of god, we go within. it is my responsibility to create
my own inner and outer world, and to honor others as they do the same
without interference. this is new territory for me as a mother on many
occasions, so i often find myself explaining my point of view and mapping
out potential consequences and ramifications for my children if they
pursue certain activities, choices, and behaviors. same for my patients
in my private practice. i can show them the effect of a particular herbal
formula or a food, or a pharmaceutical or any substance - whether bringing
them into balance and wellness - or throwing them further out of balance
and possibly into a disease state by compromising their body's processes.
but i hold my position at that, as facilitator only; and i know i cannot
change for them, they decide to change or follow a particular course
of action. regardless of outcome, i honor their choices. i simply provide
the information...i know they must do the work themselves.

that's my take on this, frank, for what it's worth...

--
lynn ferguson
meridianhealth@... (/group/asc2k/post?postid=osqhushgcuq3z-7fy7xozesepf0i3dwvvd8qwyeddlw5w6dhtixffs5a_lgg2kn6 wqj85tr3ahjl6r7cz1jsbtq)

---- centaur27@... (/group/asc2k/post?postid=7vswjj1gueiftj0qmsi65c8b9r9fksteg5kawi dm-h011marteejjounuzj-rsutsgchsat7n6sdna) wrote:
i've been thinking a lot lately about prayer and its effects.
is bathing the world in love and light a psychic attack on those not

wishing to receive it? is sending love and light to someone
consciously choosing the negative path an attack? pray for world
peace even though many do not desire it?

i don't know the answers to these questions. i suppose negative

entities can use prayer to their benefit as well? or would we call
those spells? well regardless when i pray for people or anything
right now i end with "if they desire to receive it". what are your

thoughts on this?

love and light (should you desire to receive it lol), frank




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[David Wilcock]

<table bgcolor="#ffffff">
><font face="arial" size="2">i'll just add here that in the edgar cayce school of thought, prayers must be requested by the person being prayed for. if you wish to serve someone who has not specifically requested prayer, you ask to "surround them with light." the light is undifferentiated cosmic energy and therefore will be used for whatever need suits the individual. a prayer is much more directed towards an anticipated outcome.</font>
><font face="arial" size="2"></font>
><font face="arial" size="2">let's not forget that all paths unify to oneness and the sixth-density is without polarity. this is allegedly where the higher self resides. therefore, there is definitely not any "karmic penalty" for being of vibrational service to the planet. </font>
><font face="arial" size="2"></font>
><font face="arial" size="2">peace be with you -</font>
><font face="arial" size="2"></font>
><font face="arial" size="2">- david</font>

[Sandy]

now this brings up a sticky issue. i pray for peace because it is good
for everyone, positive or negative (nobody likes to have violence
committed to their person, no matter how negative they are), and also
because the marian apparitions at medjugorje, fatima, and garabandal
all made that of paramount concern. in the material on david's
website, he quotes the negative entities as asking the positive ones
'not to offer help where none is requested'. however, i would consider
the apparitions' pleas that we pray for world peace a request, and a
sincere and urgent one at that.
i agree with david about the light; by sending pure lightto somebody
you are asking god to decide what is best for this person, and to do
it. and god is the best of judges.

> i've been thinking a lot lately about prayer and its effects.
> is bathing the world in love and light a psychic attack on those not
> wishing to receive it? is sending love and light to someone
> consciously choosing the negative path an attack? pray for world
> peace even though many do not desire it?
>
> i don't know the answers to these questions. i suppose
negative
> entities can use prayer to their benefit as well? or would we call
> those spells? well regardless when i pray for people or anything
> right now i end with "if they desire to receive it". what are your
> thoughts on this?
>
> love and light (should you desire to receive it

[cindercran]

<table>
<blockquote><tt>as i read the following prayer offered by gregg braden, the top of my head began to tingle. the crown chakra recognized the truth in this prayer.



if any of you have read gregg braden's book, the isaiah effect , he talks about a method of prayer that's been lost for many centuries. it's in the giving of thanks rather than the begging of help, as so many religions preach.



the prayer of thanks is a way to make different choices consciously and to claim another path to whatever outcome we choose. we do have free will and freedom of choice, but all outcomes from all choices are predetermined; much like throwing millions of scraps of paper with "honeydo" jobs in a jar and reaching in to pick one. which outcome we choose is the key. with this prayer of thanks, we can consciously shift course and choose another outcome and we are thanking god that we have that option. we all end up in the same place in the end which is back into the source, but we can make getting there much more productive and pleasant.



i've been praying that way myself, for well over 10 years and can guarantee that it truly works. i've not always remembered to do it, and blame myself for everything that came in the form of a 'challenge'. you can give thanks for health rather than ask to be free from illness. you can give thanks that all your needs are met rather than ask for more money. as illustrated below, we can give thanks for our leaders having courage and wisdom rather than anger and vengence. the list is endless.



one other thing i've noticed lately is that putting things out to the universe and then sitting back in wait.... works! it's a way of creating and claiming and it happens faster and faster now. motive is always key and remember that we need to be careful what we ask for, as we most likely will get it.



love to you all,

cindi









dear god, in this time of great tragedy, we give thanks for the courage

within our leaders to recognize the difference between the anger in their

minds, the wisdom of their hearts and the courage to act wisely in their

choices.



may each leader have the strength to act for the good of all people, in all

nations and our collective future as a global family.



through this prayer we claim that peace, democracy and human life are

stronger and more enduring than the buildings that symbolize them. we

breathe life into their existence from the dust of hate that is transformed

by our soil.



for these blessings in our lives, we give thanks,

amen



</tt></blockquote>

[lealdragon]

there have been some posts about meditation, but i searched the
archives and found none on prayer. edgar cayce said in a reading
"prayer is 'god, listen while i talk', while meditation is 'god, talk
while i listen'".

since becoming 'aware' that god is within, and expanding my perception
of the one infinite creator beyond the 'man with the white beard', i
no longer know how to pray. i feel silly praying the way i did as a
child, yet when i am in a crisis, i find that prayer is the only thing
that helps me get out of it.

i know some of you might respond that i am only praying to myself, my
higher self, since god is within and all answers lie within. in that
case, meditation should be sufficient, right?

yet, as i said, i find that i do need prayer of some sort. and, the
edgar cayce reading seems to validate that there may be a need for
both (at least for some people).

i know that carla said in the wanderer's handbook that she feels a
relationship with jesus, that ever since she was a child she felt his
presence, so that is what works for her. i was brought up catholic,
then dabbled with born-again christianity for awhile, but never felt
the 'relationship with jesus' as they did. then, reading the loo where
the question was asked where the entity jesus is now, the reply was
basically that he was a (5th?) density being who had a mission; in
other words a wanderer who has since moved on to other tasks.

i do know that there is some basis for 'god-names' and do believe that
they can work to reach that state of union with the one infinite
creator - in other words, chanting any 'god-name', or what one
perceives as a 'god-name', whether it be jesus, hare krishna, or
whatever, has an energy and power beyond the original entity
incarnated as jesus or krishna. i speculate that 'jesus' has become a
thought-form on many levels, and is bigger than the original wanderer
known as jesus, and that is why calling upon this name works for some
people.

i confess to a bit of envy that i never seemed to connect with any of
these 'god-names' and now i have not been able to get past my
intellectual understanding. in other words, sometimes i actually wish
i knew less, so my faith could be simpler. as i have gained in
understanding, i seem to have lost that innocence that seems to be
necessary to live according to faith. praying to 'jesus' or even
chanting 'hare krishna' just doesn't seem to work for me.

neither did all those self-help workshops i attended, in which we went
thru various exercises to connect with our 'inner guides'. maybe i had
blockages at the time, but i did not make that connection.

i do feel the need to call out to a higher power, and even tho i know
that higher power is within myself, that is where i am at. maybe it is
just a trick of the mind, a focusing of intent and energy, that is
what i perceive as prayer.

at any rate, i do still feel this need, yet cannot seem to find a
system that works, which is probably why my prayers seem to be less
comforting and effectual than b4.

i just don't know whom or what to 'pray to'. actually, the only
'higher power' i feel any connection to is ra! ra is the only entity
that i feel very confident actually exists and is real to me. i
confess i have called out to ra in moments of distress, then later
felt sheepish since i know ra's mission was to share knowledge of the
loo and not deal with 'personal matters of a transient nature'.
somehow i felt that it was not appropriate to 'pray' to ra! but then i
thought, how is that any different from praying to jesus??

ra did not want to be worshiped. jesus probably didn't either, yet
obviously many people worship him now. but what is worship, and how is
that different from praying to a higher being simply asking for help?

i do not feel inclined to 'worship' (whatever that is), but do feel
inclined to pray. i think prayer now to me is more just a
conversation, like a student to a trusted teacher, rather than the
'worshiping of idols' as in fear-based religions.

in that context, i would think that any conversation with an entity we
feel connected to would be 'ok', but is that prayer??

i still end up back where i started, with no clue as to how to go
about it.

i know i am really head-tripping myself here, but i am trying to get
past the confusion. i would be interested in hearing of anyone's
experiences with prayer, and how you transitioned from the simplistic
fundamentalist form of prayer to a form that is integrated with how
you think/believe now.

thanks and blessings

[Ed]

lealdragon wrote:
>

> i know i am really head-tripping myself here, but i am trying to get
> past the confusion. i would be interested in hearing of anyone's
> experiences with prayer, and how you transitioned from the simplistic
> fundamentalist form of prayer to a form that is integrated with how
> you think/believe now.
>
> thanks and blessings

i was never into any sort of conventional or other religion at
all, and i had no interest in prayer. a few times later on in my life
i felt the need badly enough to try it and it always led to a feeling
of relief.

it is my understanding that prayers go to, and are answered by, your
essence or higher self (the overall soul of which your life and
personality in this lifetime is just one of a long sequence). it
doesn't really matter what words you use, the essence/higher self is
who it goes to. your essence/higher self basically has the ability to
intervene and pull strings in many ways for you if it chooses to, but
it will not interfere in your life normally. your life plays out
largely, but not entirely, according to plans the essence/higher self
made in collaboration with other close souls before the incarnation.

prayer works in proportion to the earnest heartfelt feeling behind it.
a person operating from their ego can't have that earnest heartfelt
feeling, so a surrender has to happen. it's a matter of "i give up, i
can't handle this anymore, please help."

when the person prays, a connection is opened to the essence/higher
self, and this is mutually beneficial. the feeling of aloneness,
separation, fear and other related feelings are dissolved in a good
feeling of peace and connection. whether you get what you want on the
physical plane is another question, but you will feel peace and
acceptance.

however you address the beingness you pray to, that's basically how it
works.

all the best, merry xmas, ed

[NEIL HADDON]

----- original message -----
from: "lealdragon"
>i would be interested in hearing of anyone's
> experiences with prayer

gregg braden in speaking the lost language of god,
refers often to the writings of the essenes, who
lived in the area where the dead sea scrolls were
found - and may have been the authors of them. he
points out that they (also) never use the word
'prayer' - but they do use the word 'communion'.
communion means 'sharing thoughts and feelings' -
and using several examples from native peoples,
gregg believes that 'heartfelt feeling' is
actually a modality or means of prayer that we
especially in the
"western/sophisticated/'developed(?)' " world have
lost or forgotten.

it has actually been proven that the heart emits
its own energy field which has been measured to
extend several feet from the body; beyond that "
we do not yet have the instruments to measure: it
may extend for miles!"

on a different argument-level, this energy will
undoubtedly affect the aether. whether the effect
is to impress the aether - and therefore create,
or co-create the thing desired, or whether the
aether transmits the desired concept to higher
selves who respond to the call, really is
immaterial in 3d. as ra often says, "you cannot
understand."

gregg most graphic example comes from among the
indigenous peoples of your desert south-west who
were experiencing a prolonged drought. gregg's
indian friend went to a hallowed place and for a
few moments only, *felt* the feelings of rain,
really experienced in his heart - not mind - the
sensation of rain on his skin, the coolness, the
smell in the air, the mud oozing up through his
toes, the sound of rain, etc. later that day there
was a downpour which lasted several hours.

hope this helps, leal.

ps. i'm sure you're not really a 'dragon'?
love.
neil

[GenoNess1@...]

in a message dated 12/24/2004 6:13:11 pm pacific standard time,
lealdragon@... (/group/asc2k/post?postid=57nk26d8yfmpigw3mogrefuoob4qkbnvyfcmkq 9koimz4fmkpuqfdot4tw0p7gchy3qz5lkvfkslgypvp8jola) writes:
there have been some posts about meditation, but i searched the
archives and found none on prayer. edgar cayce said in a reading
"prayer is 'god, listen while i talk', while meditation is 'god, talk
while i listen'".


kind of like yin and yang. i suppose a balance of the 2 would be optimal for
clarity of giving and receiving. love, me!


[non-text portions of this message have been removed]