on Evolution

[Paltal]

Hi over there!
IÃÂà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚‚ÂàƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´ve been in this group for 2 months only, so I donÃà‚‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´t know if this
topic has already been discussed before buy IÃÂà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚‚ÂàƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´ll ask out anyway:

What about evolution? Which are your thoughts regarding biological
evolution? Do you think that the best explanation is the "punctuated
equillibrium" theory that says that our dna evolves in big steps?
(that would be pretty compatible with the ascension paradigm)

I would love hearing your opinions

take care, JP


Ps. to David Wilcock: where can I get the text that says that Fuller
students found the platonic solids when playing diatonic frequencies?
I know you explain the experiment in your books, but I would love to
read the source. Thanx you so much for everything! (if you canÃà‚‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´t
answer this because you are busy IÃÂà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚‚ÂàƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´ll understand)

[Jeremy Weiland]

Hello JP!

> What about evolution? Which are your thoughts regarding biological
> evolution? Do you think that the best explanation is the
> "punctuated equillibrium" theory that says that our dna evolves in
> big steps? (that would be pretty compatible with the ascension
> paradigm)

Well, my thoughts on evolution are comprised in the following points:

1. Evolution is a theory - not neccessarily fact. Although it seems
to explain a lot, there's also a lot that it leaves unexplained, such
as the origin of life. The current mainstream theory is almost
certainly incomplete - which is ok, science works by the creation and
continual revision of theories.

2. The idea of punctuated equilibrium kind of nips the idea of natual
selection in the bud, at least in my view. How can the central
engine of species development be slow, gradual change, and then you
have entirely new species suddenly with no discernable "lineage"? I
could be betraying my relative ignorance of biology here... I guess
it's possible that life can alter itself quickly, but there needs to
be a better and more all encompassing explanation of the driving
force of evolution.

3. That more precise and complete explanation is contained in the
work of D. Wilcock, in that he compiles a lot of the research showing
that DNA responds to torsion waves, which are hypothesized to be the
central building blocks for the vibratory nature of matter and
energy. Because these waves are based on harmonic principles, it is
natural that they would facilitate quantized cycles where moving up
and down in vibratory energy is not gradual but rather occurs in
discrete and distinct phases. Hence, an explanation for punctuated
equilibrium.

4. Ra talks about "upward spiraling light", the tendency for life to
evolve by the mechanism of rising vibratory patterns. So this
evolution can be thought of in physical, biological, psychological,
historical/sociological, and spiritual terms.

David's book explains all this much better, and it is online and free!

http://ascension2000.com/DivineCosmos/

Thanks for bringing up this great topic (better to respond late than
never).

> where can I get the text that says that Fuller students found the
> platonic solids when playing diatonic frequencies? I know you
> explain the experiment in your books, but I would love to read the
> source.

The experiment is talked about all over the web - I couldn't find a
primary source for it, though, which is not surprising. Check out
this link: http://bel.150m.com/particle.htm

Here is the part about the experiment:

"Both the students of Buckminster Fuller and his protege Dr. Hans
Jenny devised clever experiments that showed how the Platonic Solids
would form within a vibrating / pulsating 3D sphere. In the
experiment conducted by Fuller's students, a spherical balloon was
dipped in dye and pulsed with pure sinewave sound frequencies. A
small number of evenly-distanced nodes would form across the surface
of the sphere, as well as thin lines that connected them to each
other. If you have four evenly spaced nodes, you will see a
tetrahedron. Six evenly spaced nodes form an octahedron. Eight evenly
spaced nodes form a cube. Twelve evenly spaced nodes form the
icosahedron and twenty evenly spaced nodes form the dodecahedron. The
straight lines that we see on these geometric objects simply
represent the stresses that are created by the closest distance
between two points for each of the nodes as they distribute
themselves across the entire surface of the sphere."

If I were you, I would do some web research into Cymatics, which is
the label for the work of Dr. Hans Jenny, one of Fuller's students.
David actually loaned me a video of Jenny's experiments and it is
absolutely fascinating! But the best thing to do is to read David's
book - since it's online there is no excuse not to! :-)

Take care,

Jeremy

[Lesley Schultz]

Greetings, Jeremy and L/L to All:

I really liked your response to the Evolution
question, and I think you're right about human DNA
responding to torsion waves, as per David Wilcock, Ra
et al. I just wanted to point out one thing: this will
be very difficult to prove, given that we can't trace
human evolution back in an unbroken way to a common
ancestor species. Even Ra says that there was an
intervention made, or a catalyst given, to accelerate
development of the bipedal 2D species ancestor then
present on Earth into a 3D form that would support
life experience at that level. This was done,
apparently, because the entities who were left after
the destruction of Maldek and the biosphere of Mars
needed somewhere to go. Earth was at the point to
where 3D life could be sustained, but there wasn't a
species quite ready to handle it at the time, so a
little "help" was given.

My point is that, while all other things being equal,
the normal response of DNA to torsion waves would draw
development upwards, but the development of human
species on Earth may not be the best example of what
usually happens.

I think the question about evoluation and natural
selection is a really good one, and like it or not,
natural selection plays a role in how a species moves
forward under ordinary conditions. However, this role
might not be a pivotal one. Human social conditions
have a powerful effect on the action of natural
selection in evolutionary process. Given what we know
about human society, it's probably critical that we
have this upwardly-drawing torsion mechanism acting on
our DNA, because without it we would either extinguish
ourselves or inbreed into annihiliation.

[as you can tell, I'm feeling pretty depressed about
the human condition today, as war gets nearer and
nearer and I feel worse and worse about the suffering
that will go on...]

~lesley


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

[Jeremy Weiland]

Hi Lesley!

> My point is that, while all other things being
> equal, the normal response of DNA to torsion waves
> would draw development upwards, but the development
> of human species on Earth may not be the best
> example of what usually happens.

Point taken. Hopefully by the time these kinds of
ideas are accepted seriously, we'll be at the
scientific level where we can seriously contemplate
some currently outrageous theories about man's origin.

From a scientific perspective, it's important that we
have an explanation for evolution, even if we can't
prove one instance of it. And that lack of proof is
based on a lot of unfounded assumptions, remember.

> I think the question about evoluation and natural
> selection is a really good one, and like it or not,
> natural selection plays a role in how a species
> moves forward under ordinary conditions.

This is highly likely, and I am not opposed to such a
limited role. But I believe that it was proven that
it would be mathematically impossible for DNA to
change enough in the time we've been allotted on earth
(4.5 bn years) to explain all the myriad species now
occupying the earth.

> However, this role might not be a pivotal one.

That was my point :-)

> Human social conditions have a powerful effect on
> the action of natural selection in evolutionary
> process. Given what we know about human society,
> it's probably critical that we have this upwardly-
> drawing torsion mechanism acting on our DNA, because

> without it we would either extinguish ourselves or
> inbreed into annihiliation.

Well, that's what I'm talking about - this torsion
energy is the basis for everything, from biology to
psychology. Because of it's quanitized, discrete
nature, only those who vibrate above a certain
frequency will be able to continue, so you could say
we are facing a moral punctated equilibrium within,
cosmically speaking...

> [as you can tell, I'm feeling pretty depressed about
> the human condition today, as war gets nearer and
> nearer and I feel worse and worse about the
> suffering that will go on...]

I don't know, I'm optimistic. The harder and more
belligerently Bush pushes, the more polarized our
country will become, and the more people will choose
not to support him. I think a lot of people are
starting to question things right now, but that kind
of analysis and deliberation takes time.

Whatever you do, don't buy into the mainstream media!
When was the last time they gave you information
containing *any* hope? Then why look for it there?

:-)

Love and light,

Jeremy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

[Paltal]

Heeeeyyy, thanx for your reply!! :)
IÃÂà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚‚ÂàƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´ll reply your reply:


--- In asc2k@yahoogroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postID=riuye3yFVygQCh8WzjziKQe35KFd6RtZpJ131T 8sPuJXA_UqIP8KoX4k7m4bcJWnXhD3UF0Tf33Tpe0), "Jeremy Weiland <greenlantern113@y...>"
<greenlantern113@y...> wrote:
> Hello JP!
>
> > What about evolution? Which are your thoughts regarding
biological
> > evolution? Do you think that the best explanation is the
> > "punctuated equillibrium" theory that says that our dna evolves
in
> > big steps? (that would be pretty compatible with the ascension
> > paradigm)
>
> Well, my thoughts on evolution are comprised in the following
points:
>
> 1. Evolution is a theory - not neccessarily fact. Although it seems
> to explain a lot, there's also a lot that it leaves unexplained,
such
> as the origin of life. The current mainstream theory is almost
> certainly incomplete - which is ok, science works by the creation
and
> continual revision of theories.
>

Exactly, evolution is a theory... a theory without actual proofs,
making things more difficult. Moreover, I think that straight Darwin
evolutionism is a completely flawed theory, it has so many holes that
I would be 3 days typing... you can read those holes from a good
creationist site: http://evolutionoftruth.com/
(just read the evolution related parts and youÃà‚‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´ll do fine)

BUT, if we look at the "punctuated equillibrium" theory, things
become much more interesting. The holes are apparently gone, and it
kinda fits really well in the Ascension theory... the problem is
that, again, we are lack from proofs.


> 2. The idea of punctuated equilibrium kind of nips the idea of
natual
> selection in the bud, at least in my view. How can the central
> engine of species development be slow, gradual change, and then you
> have entirely new species suddenly with no discernable "lineage"?
I
> could be betraying my relative ignorance of biology here... I guess
> it's possible that life can alter itself quickly, but there needs
to
> be a better and more all encompassing explanation of the driving
> force of evolution.

I think you are messing things up over here. Let me talk about the
difference between Natural Selection and Evolution... because the
Variation of the species (blue or black eyes, tall or short, white or
yellow) can lead to Natural Selection. What I am trying to say is
that a specie has all the info from that specie coded in their DNA,
and if I have Guiness Record long arms it does not mean that I am
evolving, ità‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚Â‚ÃƒÂ‚Ã‚Â´s just a variation that ità‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚Â‚ÃƒÂ‚Ã‚Â´s ALREADY CODED IN MY DNA.
That doesnÃÃÂà ‚‚‚à‚´t mean that one day a baby will be born with 2 wings... A
Mutation is a LOSS IN THE DNA CODE, remember that. A mutation has
never been a cause to a specie to develop new and useful features,
never.

If we look at the most common example explaining evolution (the one
of the peppered moths in England), we clearly see adaptation and
natural selection, BUT we should know that the black moths or the
white moths were just variations of a simple moth, variations in
color that there were already coded in their DNA before they needed
to adapt to the enviroment.

So... Natural Selection, adaptation and species variation is not a
theory, is a proven FACT.

So, what I wanted to tell you is this:

How can the central
> engine of species development be slow, gradual change, and then you
> have entirely new species suddenly with no discernable "lineage"?

The species do NOT develop in a slow, gradual change. There are tons
of evidence concerning that... Natural Selection do NOT make a specie
to develop, ità‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚Â‚ÃƒÂ‚Ã‚Â´s just the result of variation.



> 3. That more precise and complete explanation is contained in the
> work of D. Wilcock, in that he compiles a lot of the research
showing
> that DNA responds to torsion waves, which are hypothesized to be
the
> central building blocks for the vibratory nature of matter and
> energy.

DNA and torsion waves?? IÃÂà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚‚ÂàƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´ve heard of that, but, in the Divine
Cosmos? Which chapter? I think you are talking of the 2nd part of the
Book, which is not published yet. (ainÃà‚‚Â ´t it??)



Because these waves are based on harmonic principles, it is
> natural that they would facilitate quantized cycles where moving up
> and down in vibratory energy is not gradual but rather occurs in
> discrete and distinct phases. Hence, an explanation for punctuated
> equilibrium.

Yes! I want to read about that!! where???



> 4. Ra talks about "upward spiraling light", the tendency for life
to
> evolve by the mechanism of rising vibratory patterns. So this
> evolution can be thought of in physical, biological, psychological,
> historical/sociological, and spiritual terms.
>
David's book explains all this much better, and it is online and
free!
>
> http://ascension2000.com/DivineCosmos/
>

IÃÂà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚‚ÂàƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´ve already read it, ità‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚´s great, but it sounds you are talking from
part 2... again, am I missing something???

Thanks for bringing up this great topic (better to respond late than
never).
>
> > where can I get the text that says that Fuller students found the
> > platonic solids when playing diatonic frequencies? I know you
> > explain the experiment in your books, but I would love to read
the
> > source.
>
> The experiment is talked about all over the web - I couldn't find a
> primary source for it, though, which is not surprising. Check out
> this link: http://bel.150m.com/particle.htm
>
> Here is the part about the experiment:
>
> "Both the students of Buckminster Fuller and his protege Dr. Hans
> Jenny devised clever experiments that showed how the Platonic
Solids
> would form within a vibrating / pulsating 3D sphere. In the
> experiment conducted by Fuller's students, a spherical balloon was
> dipped in dye and pulsed with pure sinewave sound frequencies. A
> small number of evenly-distanced nodes would form across the
surface
> of the sphere, as well as thin lines that connected them to each
> other. If you have four evenly spaced nodes, you will see a
> tetrahedron. Six evenly spaced nodes form an octahedron. Eight
evenly
> spaced nodes form a cube. Twelve evenly spaced nodes form the
> icosahedron and twenty evenly spaced nodes form the dodecahedron.
The
> straight lines that we see on these geometric objects simply
> represent the stresses that are created by the closest distance
> between two points for each of the nodes as they distribute
> themselves across the entire surface of the sphere."
>
> If I were you, I would do some web research into Cymatics, which is
> the label for the work of Dr. Hans Jenny, one of Fuller's
students.
> David actually loaned me a video of Jenny's experiments and it is
> absolutely fascinating! But the best thing to do is to read
David's
> book - since it's online there is no excuse not to! :-)
>

Mmmm, I think you didnÃà‚‚Â ´t undertand my request... I was asking for the
source of that info, because all the info in the web concerning that
experiment has been taken from David WilcockÃÃà‚‚‚ÃÂÂà ‚‚´s books. If you read
them, they are the same text every time. (The web you pasted is
actually a compilation of DavidÃÃÂà ‚‚‚à‚´s research if you read with
attention). So, the only real source of this info in the net has to
be in DavidÃÃÂà ‚‚‚à‚´s hands... AND that info is REALLY IMPORTANT AND
GROUNDBREAKING! (IMHO). Because, we know from Jenny that Geometry is
the result of vibration, thatÃà‚‚Â ´s fine... BUT the Fuller experiment is
not regarding just geometry, but the PLATONIC SOLIDS. I really want
to read the paper when they state they found the evenly spaced nodes
and the lines and everything... moreover, I would be amazed if I
could do it with my own hands!! So, this request was more to David
Wilcock that to anyone else, if he could post the original data it
would be greatly appreciated from me.

Thank you a lot, blessings from Argentina

JP

[Jeremy Weiland]

Hi JP!

> I think you are messing things up over here.

Like I said, this is merely uninformed speculation,
and it wasn't unrequested :-)

> So... Natural Selection, adaptation and species
> variation is not a theory, is a proven FACT.

Well, you mean it is a very robust and workable theory
that has yet to be refuted.

> The species do NOT develop in a slow, gradual
> change. There are tons of evidence concerning
> that... Natural Selection do NOT make a specie
> to develop, ità‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚Â‚ÃƒÂ‚Ã‚Â´s just the result of variation.

OK, like I said, biology is not my forte... :-) Is
this how mainstream biology explains speciation?

> DNA and torsion waves?? IÃÂà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚‚ÂàƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´ve heard of that, but, in
> the Divine Cosmos? Which chapter? I think you are
> talking of the 2nd part of the Book, which is not
> published yet. (ainÃà‚‚Â ´t it??)

I might be. I think a lot of that material was
presented in Louisville and Huntsville at the Time of
Global Shift seminars and have yet to appear in the
book. It's been a while since I've reread it, though,
so I could be wrong. A lot of the torsion wave
research was done in Russia, so the papers are out
there, you just have to find them and be able to read
them in Russian. :-)

>> Because these waves are based on harmonic
>> principles, it is natural that they would
>> facilitate quantized cycles where moving up and
>> down in vibratory energy is not gradual but rather
>> occurs in discrete and distinct phases. Hence, an
>> explanation for punctuated equilibrium.
>
> Yes! I want to read about that!! where???

It's in Divine Cosmos... the idea that the position of
our planet and solar system relative to the "central
oscillator" and the universes harmonic division into
discrete "zones" has effects on the planet and the
life on it... that the upcoming shift is a consequence
of Earth moving into another zone that has a higher
resonant energy frequency. This high energy state
would result in changes in life on earth, and that is
Wilcock's explanation for punctuated equilibrium -
that lifeforms of lower vibration are killed off and
new ones adapt to the new frequency.

> IÃÂà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚‚ÂàƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´ve already read it, ità‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚´s great, but it sounds you
> are talking from part 2... again, am I missing
> something???

Well, the Law of One series (www.llresearch.com)
provides the metaphysical foundation for the
scientific theories put forth in Divine Cosmos. We
talk about it a lot on this list. It's a series of
channelings, so it's not hard and fast science, but it
explains a lot of stuff that we're just now being able
to describe in terms of scientific theory and fact.

> Mmmm, I think you didnÃà‚‚Â ´t undertand my request... I
> was asking for the source of that info, because all
> the info in the web concerning that experiment has
> been taken from David WilcockÃÃà‚‚‚ÃÂÂà ‚‚´s books.

I did understand the request - I said that I did not
have a "primary source". I didn't realize that the
link I gave you was copied from asc2k - I read it over
and it didn't seem to be related.

> Because, we know from Jenny that Geometry is the
> result of vibration, thatÃà‚‚Â ´s fine... BUT the Fuller
> experiment is not regarding just geometry, but the
> PLATONIC SOLIDS.

No, no... Jenny did work on three dimensional
geometries resulting from vibration. David lent me a
Cymatics video tape where I saw 3D geometries spring
up in spheres vibrated at diatonic frequencies - the
actual experiments by Jenny. I can't recommend
looking into "Cymatics" too forcefully; it really will
explain a lot. Try Jenny's website:
http://www.cymaticsource.com/

> I really want to read the paper when they state they

> found the evenly spaced nodes and the lines and
> everything... moreover, I would be amazed if I
> could do it with my own hands!! So, this request was
> more to David Wilcock that to anyone else, if he
> could post the original data it would be greatly
> appreciated from me.

Y'know, when I first got into David's material, the
geometry/sound relationship was the most fascinating
thing for me, too... and doing research into Cymatics
sort of satisfied my curiosity on that.

Love and light,

Jeremy

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

[Paltal]

Hi!! Thanx so much for your replies
Here we go again:


>
> > So... Natural Selection, adaptation and species
> > variation is not a theory, is a proven FACT.
>
> Well, you mean it is a very robust and workable theory
> that has yet to be refuted.

I must disagree... evolution is a theory, natural selection is a
proven FACT, there is a lot (and I mean a LOT) of evidence proving
that NS actually happens all the time... remember: Natural Selection
= Adaptation



> > DNA and torsion waves?? IÃÂà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚‚ÂàƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´ve heard of that, but, in
> > the Divine Cosmos? Which chapter? I think you are
> > talking of the 2nd part of the Book, which is not
> > published yet. (ainÃà‚‚Â ´t it??)
>
> I might be. I think a lot of that material was
> presented in Louisville and Huntsville at the Time of
> Global Shift seminars and have yet to appear in the
> book. It's been a while since I've reread it, though,
> so I could be wrong. A lot of the torsion wave
> research was done in Russia, so the papers are out
> there, you just have to find them and be able to read
> them in Russian. :-)

Well, IÃÂà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚‚ÂàƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´m from Buenos Aires so no, I didnÃà‚‚ ´t actually had the pleasure
to be in one of those Seminars... is there any place where I can find
the info of the Seminars on that?

> > IÃÂà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚‚ÂàƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´ve already read it, ità‚Âà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚´s great, but it sounds you
> > are talking from part 2... again, am I missing
> > something???
>
> Well, the Law of One series (www.llresearch.com)
> provides the metaphysical foundation for the
> scientific theories put forth in Divine Cosmos. We
> talk about it a lot on this list. It's a series of
> channelings, so it's not hard and fast science, but it
> explains a lot of stuff that we're just now being able
> to describe in terms of scientific theory and fact.

I know that, but I like my info to be solid data, irrefutable... hey,
IÃÂà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚‚ÂàƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´m NOT saying that the law of One Series is no good, IÃÂà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚‚ÂàƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´m just saying
that I like hard science (btw, not science in the Western way). Then,
if I find that the data is in relation to some channelings, then IÃÂà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚‚ÂàƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´ll
study them too!
(Actually, IÃÂà ƒÂƒÃ‚‚‚ÂàƒÃ‚ƒÃ‚‚´ve read some of the Ra material some weeks ago)


> > Because, we know from Jenny that Geometry is the
> > result of vibration, thatÃà‚‚Â ´s fine... BUT the Fuller
> > experiment is not regarding just geometry, but the
> > PLATONIC SOLIDS.
>
> No, no... Jenny did work on three dimensional
> geometries resulting from vibration.

That is just what I wanted to express!! Sorry, my English is not very
good... What I really meant is that the Fuller experiment related
DIATONIC FREQUENCIES and PLATONIC SOLIDS, and it looks like hard rock
evidence concerning that, and I want to be sure that that info is
rock solid data.

Take Care, JP

[Mawk]

Hi JP,

If you do a search on the net for an e-book called A Fuller Explanation you
might find the answers to you questions. A link for this book was placed on
the ascension list by Rod some time back. If you have no luck let me know.

Cheers,

Mawk