Stock market [Archive] - Divine Cosmos Discussions

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Tarzan

07-10-2002, 01:22 AM

<table bgColor="#ffffff">
align="left" class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr">From: William Foster [mailto:fosterwg@lvcm.com]

>We have only begun to see the beginning of a wealth disappearance unprecedented in history
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Greetings Bill,
>
>Would you hazard a guess as to what bottom level the stock market wouldslide downward into? My bet isa Dow 4,500 bythe end of this year.
>
>I hope that these financial discussions are not off-topic, as I worry about alienating anyone with any off-topic posts. 
>
>Seth

William Foster

07-10-2002, 01:50 AM

<table bgColor="#ffffff">
>Hi Seth:
>It's very difficult to say when the DOW will reach 5,000 or 4,500 or below that; but it will. As David's web-site article pointed out, the world wide contraction of the financial markets is in place. The peak in stocks came a year or so ago depending upon the index and now it's all down hill from here until at least 2012 to2017.
>
>There are just so many variables and assumptions in making DOW predictions that I can't say. But I own no stocks. I only own a lot of call options on Newmont Mining Corp. (NEM) that expireJune, 2004; because I believe gold will strongly rise in price. I also invest in the futures market using a very short term strategy (a few hours to a few days).
>
>Also, I believe interest rates in the U.S. will rise in price because of repatriation of foreign capital. Something like one-third of the U.S. Federal debt of almost 6 trillion dollars is owned by foreign countries. They, in my opinion, have lost faith in the U.S. stock market and the ability of the economy to expand. When foreign countries pull out even a small part of the U.S. debt that they own, it will force the U.S. to raise interest rates which will further erode the stock market. Even now, short and long term interest rates are much higher in most foreign countries (except Japan) than they are in the U.S. This will create a continuos cycle of contraction and deflation, which will lead to world wide depression.
>
>We have some soft Geocentric aspects of the slow moving planets coming up over the next few months. For example, Saturn (structure) trine Neptune (illusion) in Aug.'02, Jupiter (expansion) trine Pluto in Oct.'02 and Saturn trine Uranus and Jupiter trine Pluto in Dec.'02; therefore I don't think we will see the low in the DOW by 12-31-02.
>
>On the other hand, we have Jupiter opposite Neptune in Sep.'02 and the Saturn retrograde station in Oct.'02 is very bad. Still, even if these cause a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan, a 9.0 earthquake in Tokyo, a 200 foot tidal wave along the West coast of the U.S. due to a long run-out land slide in the Hawaiian islands; I believe it will be like the 911 attack which cause brief severe drops in stocks and increases in Gold and Oil. The biggest problems, at least from my perspective, are further out; say from 2003 to 2005, 2007 to 2010 and 2012 to 2016. The seven transiting Geocentric Uranus square Pluto aspects in cardinal signs between 2012 to 2015 will be particularly devastating. Because they happen in cardinal signs, there physical, emotional and mental manifestation on Earth will be immediate. They will also form a grand square with the U.S. natal Saturn in Libra and natal Sun in Cancer. I'm moving to Europe, or New Zealand or somewhere else besides the U.S. before that; if I'm still living.
>
>But, the U.S. must support at all costs the T-Bill, T-Note and T-Bond markets because that is how they finance the 6 trillion in Federal debt. Therefore, that is why conservative investors, who believe in a market crash, put most of there money in 3 month T-Bills; because if one believes that rates will rise, then the short end of the interest curve is the place to be.
>
>The only other place I would put my money is in funds that only make bearish investments like put options or that sell stocks short and gold funds.
>
>There has been some discussion about wealth and value. What is a dollar worth. It's intrinsic value is not much since it's just paper and ink. Even gold, in a very serious depression and financial collapse, isn't worth much since you can't eat it. In that case what has value is food, water, soap, and other hard assets you can live off of.
>
>We have moved into very chaotic and dynamic times. The future is hard to predict. That's why I trade only very short term in very slow an steady markets with lots of liquidity. I can do this with very little capital since the futures markets are so highly leveraged. After all the margin to control 40,000 pounds of Live Cattle (1 futures contract in L.C.)is only $810 but the value of the contract is at least 20 times that amount. It's the same with options on gold stocks. They have tremendous leverage over the out right purchase of the stock itself.
>
>But, as we move closer to the 4th density and beyond, ones priorities and basic values change. In the last analysis, the only real reality is god (Love and Light). Everything else is an illusion.
>
>yours,
>Bill Foster
>
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: Tarzan (tarzan@ncws.com)
style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: asc2k@yahoogroups.com
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 1:22 AM
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: [asc2k] Stock market
>

class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" align="left">From: William Foster [mailto:fosterwg@lvcm.com]

>We have only begun to see the beginning of a wealth disappearance unprecedented in history
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Greetings Bill,
>
>Would you hazard a guess as to what bottom level the stock market wouldslide downward into? My bet isa Dow 4,500 bythe end of this year.
>
>I hope that these financial discussions are not off-topic, as I worry about alienating anyone with any off-topic posts. 
>
>Seth
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asc2k-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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</blockquote>

Tiffani Boswell

07-10-2002, 06:47 AM

<table bgColor="#ffffff">
>I know we have been talking alot about money lately...but maybe that is because it is on everyone's mind...
>I don't dwell on the economy (even though it is my job) the negative aspects I mean as I don't have a huge financial savings...relatively very small...but I do have some and have it in a 2025 bond fund...
>
>i read some of you think if the dollar falls to much that bonds might not go up...given, long-term bonds are up substantially the past few weeks...but not back to where they were post- 9-11
>
>So...should I get into a Gold Fund??? i feel like prices are already high there ( i don't know if there are any gold bugs out there...but I have seen them my whole life (given I am 25) hoping Gold will go beyond 800-1000....I know it hit it BRIEFLY in the 80's but really it dropped to 500 from there and has resetd 300 give or take for a while now ... now GIVEN that was in a raging bull market...and in my opinion....we are in a secular bear market...( and i know some on the list...think it is not necessarily a secular bear market more of a all the way drop to the bottom kind) but I see the American people having more confidence than we think they do...so it seems it will cycle but progressively downward...
>
>anyway...Prices seem low today to a gold bug...but are expectations realistic for gold to go that high in the event of a: just a secular bear market... b: the dow dropping to 4000 (and remember that the ECONOMY and the STOCK MARKET do not necessarily reflect eachother...when one is doing horrible it does not necessarily mean the other is doing horrible...I can send anyone research on this from our firm) anyway...c: in the case of a total economic collapse...and then would the gold "funds" as opposed to gold be prudent?
>
>Thanks....
>wooo I don't normally get into "work" things on the list :)
>strange days...
>
>HEY FOR ALL OF YOU THAT DON"T KNOW IT ALREADY>>>
>DAVID WILCOCK ROCKS!!!!
>
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #800080 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: William Foster (fosterwg@lvcm.com)
style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: asc2k@yahoogroups.com
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 3:50 AM
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: Re: [asc2k] Stock market
>

>Hi Seth:
>It's very difficult to say when the DOW will reach 5,000 or 4,500 or below that; but it will. As David's web-site article pointed out, the world wide contraction of the financial markets is in place. The peak in stocks came a year or so ago depending upon the index and now it's all down hill from here until at least 2012 to2017.
>
>There are just so many variables and assumptions in making DOW predictions that I can't say. But I own no stocks. I only own a lot of call options on Newmont Mining Corp. (NEM) that expireJune, 2004; because I believe gold will strongly rise in price. I also invest in the futures market using a very short term strategy (a few hours to a few days).
>
>Also, I believe interest rates in the U.S. will rise in price because of repatriation of foreign capital. Something like one-third of the U.S. Federal debt of almost 6 trillion dollars is owned by foreign countries. They, in my opinion, have lost faith in the U.S. stock market and the ability of the economy to expand. When foreign countries pull out even a small part of the U.S. debt that they own, it will force the U.S. to raise interest rates which will further erode the stock market. Even now, short and long term interest rates are much higher in most foreign countries (except Japan) than they are in the U.S. This will create a continuos cycle of contraction and deflation, which will lead to world wide depression.
>
>We have some soft Geocentric aspects of the slow moving planets coming up over the next few months. For example, Saturn (structure) trine Neptune (illusion) in Aug.'02, Jupiter (expansion) trine Pluto in Oct.'02 and Saturn trine Uranus and Jupiter trine Pluto in Dec.'02; therefore I don't think we will see the low in the DOW by 12-31-02.
>
>On the other hand, we have Jupiter opposite Neptune in Sep.'02 and the Saturn retrograde station in Oct.'02 is very bad. Still, even if these cause a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan, a 9.0 earthquake in Tokyo, a 200 foot tidal wave along the West coast of the U.S. due to a long run-out land slide in the Hawaiian islands; I believe it will be like the 911 attack which cause brief severe drops in stocks and increases in Gold and Oil. The biggest problems, at least from my perspective, are further out; say from 2003 to 2005, 2007 to 2010 and 2012 to 2016. The seven transiting Geocentric Uranus square Pluto aspects in cardinal signs between 2012 to 2015 will be particularly devastating. Because they happen in cardinal signs, there physical, emotional and mental manifestation on Earth will be immediate. They will also form a grand square with the U.S. natal Saturn in Libra and natal Sun in Cancer. I'm moving to Europe, or New Zealand or somewhere else besides the U.S. before that; if I'm still living.
>
>But, the U.S. must support at all costs the T-Bill, T-Note and T-Bond markets because that is how they finance the 6 trillion in Federal debt. Therefore, that is why conservative investors, who believe in a market crash, put most of there money in 3 month T-Bills; because if one believes that rates will rise, then the short end of the interest curve is the place to be.
>
>The only other place I would put my money is in funds that only make bearish investments like put options or that sell stocks short and gold funds.
>
>There has been some discussion about wealth and value. What is a dollar worth. It's intrinsic value is not much since it's just paper and ink. Even gold, in a very serious depression and financial collapse, isn't worth much since you can't eat it. In that case what has value is food, water, soap, and other hard assets you can live off of.
>
>We have moved into very chaotic and dynamic times. The future is hard to predict. That's why I trade only very short term in very slow an steady markets with lots of liquidity. I can do this with very little capital since the futures markets are so highly leveraged. After all the margin to control 40,000 pounds of Live Cattle (1 futures contract in L.C.)is only $810 but the value of the contract is at least 20 times that amount. It's the same with options on gold stocks. They have tremendous leverage over the out right purchase of the stock itself.
>
>But, as we move closer to the 4th density and beyond, ones priorities and basic values change. In the last analysis, the only real reality is god (Love and Light). Everything else is an illusion.
>
>yours,
>Bill Foster
>
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: Tarzan (tarzan@ncws.com)
style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: asc2k@yahoogroups.com
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 1:22 AM
style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: [asc2k] Stock market
>

class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" align="left">From: William Foster [mailto:fosterwg@lvcm.com]

>We have only begun to see the beginning of a wealth disappearance unprecedented in history
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Greetings Bill,
>
>Would you hazard a guess as to what bottom level the stock market wouldslide downward into? My bet isa Dow 4,500 bythe end of this year.
>
>I hope that these financial discussions are not off-topic, as I worry about alienating anyone with any off-topic posts. 
>
>Seth
<tt>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asc2k-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

</tt>

<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service (http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/).</tt>
</blockquote>
<tt>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asc2k-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service (http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/).</tt>
</blockquote>

alphacentauri_1999

07-10-2002, 07:35 AM

--- In asc2k@y..., "Tiffani Boswell" <tiffani@2...> wrote:
> I know we have been talking alot about money lately...but maybe
that is because it is on everyone's mind...
> I don't dwell on the economy (even though it is my job) the
negative aspects I mean as I don't have a huge financial
savings...relatively very small...but I do have some and have it in a
2025 bond fund...
>
> i read some of you think if the dollar falls to much that bonds
might not go up...given, long-term bonds are up substantially the
past few weeks...but not back to where they were post- 9-11
>
> So...should I get into a Gold Fund??? i feel like prices are
already high there ( i don't know if there are any gold bugs out
there...but I have seen them my whole life (given I am 25) hoping
Gold will go beyond 800-1000....I know it hit it BRIEFLY in the 80's
but really it dropped to 500 from there and has resetd 300 give or
take for a while now ... now GIVEN that was in a raging bull
market...and in my opinion....we are in a secular bear market...( and
i know some on the list...think it is not necessarily a secular bear
market more of a all the way drop to the bottom kind) but I see the
American people having more confidence than we think they do...so it
seems it will cycle but progressively downward...
>
> anyway...Prices seem low today to a gold bug...but are expectations
realistic for gold to go that high in the event of a: just a secular
bear market... b: the dow dropping to 4000 (and remember that the
ECONOMY and the STOCK MARKET do not necessarily reflect
eachother...when one is doing horrible it does not necessarily mean
the other is doing horrible...I can send anyone research on this from
our firm) anyway...c: in the case of a total economic collapse...and
then would the gold "funds" as opposed to gold be prudent?

AC:
In my opinion, bonds of any type are no place to be as any form
of "safe" haven.
As the dollar declines, interest rates will rise.
As state revenues diminish municiple bonds will suffer some defaults.
Since the dollar has no backing, it's simply not a good vehicle to
preserve capital, regardless of what investment you buy.
Real estate is in a gigantic price bubble in the U.S. so it offers
little in the way of protection either.
A house is not an ATM machine even though the government and lending
agencies would like you to use it as one to keep the economy going.
With regard to gold and silver.
It was Mr. Magoo(Greenspan) who declared before a committee just a
few years ago that:
(this quote is from memory)
"Central banks stand ready to lease(i.e sell) gold in increasing
quantities, should it's price rise."

That's about as clear a signal of price manipulation on the part of
governments as you can possibly get and it was given several years
ago. Naturally, the mainstream media said nothing about it.
Gold prices have been manipulated and will be manipulated.
Gold is competition to any dishonest unbacked currency and can't be
allowed to reach prices that would shake confidence in paper assets.
At some point I believe that it won't be possible to control it's
price.
Silver analyst Ted Butler has made a very good case(in my opinion)
that silver also has a huge short position by only a few players
which indicates price manipulation there too.
Silver at less than $5 an ounce looks like a bargain to me.
Gold funds may be the next best thing to the actual metal but options
contracts on gold are risky. If gold should rise dramatically in
price, the other side of an options contract may not be able to pay
and could default on the contract.
I don't think it would hurt to invest in some of the actual metal
itself(gold or silver)as a precaution.
Gold/Silver doesn't lie, cheat, go bankrupt, or need auditors.
It tells the truth.
All unbacked paper money eventually returns to it's true value.