Service to Self/Others [Archive] - Divine Cosmos Discussions

Jeia Ra Manuk

06-26-2011, 12:04 PM

well friend. this is exactly what happens when young souls try to understand this material. the 51 and 99 is irrelevant because there is no time, it is an illusion. and if you at first understand this, then numbers will no longer matter. this deity that everyone calls ra, around here, is greatly misunderstood. the point of not making contact between densities, is so that misunderstanding does not occur, between higher intellect and lower intellect. the intellect of the whole or the one, is projected unto different levels of density, thus the ones vibrating at each density will have a hard time understanding those above. this is why religion is established. now that we are entering into the zone of the higher density, we are obviously going to be sucked in. those at the highest density will once more travel to the lower. this is a natural occurrence, just as a black hole sucks in the light. it does not matter what the requirement is. ra is but another filter. i was taught to ignore his attempts at establishing communications with the lower, because of this communication, the cycle continues. we will never achieve nirvāṇa, with one force assuming it is two. the real requirement is getting up each morning and telling yourself that you are the creator of this world, and that when you die, your world dies with you. thus for someone who says there are no polarities, sure underlines a lot of requirements. 51 and 99 sure look like they are at the middle and at the end of some kinds of a countdown. there is no countdown, no time and certainly no requirements. there is one thing you must do when the change comes- accept it, and it won't matter what percent of what you got. thus this percentage is of those that are ready, and those that are ready in your world are those that are good to themselves and others. if you are ready for change, you are doing everything right. i must accept that you and i will become whole and you must accept that also. then, the change will occur and those not ready for the change will remain behind. those hiding in bunkers and partying like crazy because it is the end of the world will remain here, to come out and witness chaos or to wake up in the morning with a headache, laughing about those nuts that thought the world's gonna end. but we will ascend, even though our form will remain for them here, to keep them in the state of bliss until they are ready. this is the law, and it needs no numbers to underline its key principles. the numbers are for those who are just at the beginning of the acceptance of change. in a world filled with facts, you will be drawn to this remarkable science and math, only to understand that there is no physical where we are going, there is no need for numbers. the life force or intelligence has separate roles for time/space and space/time, while all other forces of the universe work in unison, holding together the two realms underneath which is one being. we are one being, that is constantly divided into two with a line, a bridge in between. like us, with two sides of the body and two sides of the brain but with a spine in the middle, on top of which is the only not split part in the brain, the pineal gland!

so, here, no polarity, no benevolent and no negative. just a system that works the same on every level of awareness!

MarkM

06-26-2011, 06:51 PM

hi oriax,

one thought i've had is that the human mind is designed to work in terms of relative value, and is often found to be concerned with differences and assigning relative value to the conditions of our world. some things are good, some bad, better or worse, and so on...

here, the intellect is often that which rules the heart, and the mind can only go so far on the way to fathoming a law of one described vision of one - in which every life form is of one consciousness, every seeming other person and being actually being you in another frame of experiencing.

while the concept of love is not foreign to mankind, love seems relativized, as in the way we decide to have more love or less, depending on the perceived value of the potential recipient. the personality and intellectual structures erected in a lifetime necessarily perceive their surroundings in terms of difference, and love can be conditional or withheld.

surely a normal state of affairs for those yet fully immersed in the beginning, intermediate and even advanced curriculi of third density! yet perhaps eventually the intellectual personality will yield to being informed and led by the heart.

it could be that a soul, with their experiencing of the tool of third density mind and intellect, matures and outgrows the need for continued lifetimes in third, when the capacity of mind/intellect grows to the point of having come to increasingly overlook differences with an accompanying melting into a state of increasingly allowing the heart (love) to view all other people, lifeforms, conditions and situations with an even and undiscerning blanket love.

polarity does indeed come into play here, imo, as to allow one's self to come to realize that everything which happens here is perfectly in accord with divine plan, and every person's chosen path is just as perfect a means back to the creator, one may choose between two paths which represent polarically opposite destinations - the occupation of the positive wherein one channels love/light into the world or the negative pole wherein one is sucking the universal energies in.

this polarization is necessary for ascension into the fourth density, and the existance of polarity enables the existance of the lower densities up until 6th. one may look at the 51% thing to symbolize a balance beam. to have moved closer to the positive pole and somewhat consistantly be radiating unconditional love basically tips the balance beam to one side. this is perhaps what is intended by 51% - for those polarizing positively, we need only tip the balance slightly towards radiating love as opposed to being more likely to be pulling in energy for our exclusive benefit.

one polarizing negative has a different challenge, as a neg polarizer needs to have self discipline to incredible extents, viewing the world as a garden ripe for the picking, dedicated to bending the world to their own personal ends.

attaining 51% won't cut it here, as many of us are service to self over service to others and yet are deep within their 3d curriculum and have not yet the experience or mastery of love to be in a position to polarize either way.

to polarize negative requires the deactivation of the green ray heart center, and almost total dedication to conquest and attaining dominion over others towards the goal of increased power without compunction in regard for those being so dominated and exploited.

according to ra, very few have been successful on this path and relatively few attempt it. most will eventually polarize positive and activate the green ray.

key to all this is an understanding, for me anyway, that the personality/intellect is a temporary construct, built for the purpose of aiding in the navigation of this one lifetime.

i offer these thoughts as only being offered as suppositions based on my own experiencing, not to be taken as being intended to represent anything more than shifting ideas and personal heart-resonance. mark

Tenet Nosce

06-26-2011, 09:27 PM

i don't understand this paradigm at all; service to self is natural, and it is precisely because of this self-interest that we decide to work and live together.

hi oriax,

there is a great deal of confusion around this idea. i don't believe your observation is incongruent with the material.

service to self is natural. what the law of one says is that there is only one of us here. there is only one "self". so choosing to serve others as a path to spiritual growth involves seeking the awareness that the other is, in fact, another you.

the sts/sto concept is somewhat difficult to grasp, as the concept of "self" and "other" is illusory.

there are some who perceive that service to others should involve a sacrifice of the self. however, this is a limited view. and incorrect. you cannot give to another by taking away from yourself. it simply does not work that way.

Oriax

06-26-2011, 09:38 PM

thanks for the replies. i guess my main point of contention is that, imo, we're all pure service-to-self beings. not a single thing we do is for the benefit of anyone but ourselves--even seemingly altruistic acts are done with some sort of expected reward in mind, either in this world or the next. when we see someone we like, we think "exploitable resource" deep down and that translates emotionally as love, happiness etc. in the presence of the person. those who are considered to be "enlightened" are merely those who have a long-term, wide-angle view of things. they act with generosity and kindness only to further their own security and prosperity, whether they acknowledge it or not.

fundamentally, i think we're all magnetic/devouring entities because we love existence, and existence entails sacrifice and consumption in one way or another. the confusion arises when we confuse hyperactive social instincts with some sort of "true love", when the only true love is looking at something and desiring it.

EcyaC

06-27-2011, 06:54 AM

...if this is some sort of "test" we're going through, i'd propose that it's one of maturity and intelligence, not necissarily service to others.

also, "benevolent" forces wouldn't leave highly advanced and intelligent "negative" forces here if they truly believed in service to others. it's akin to locking a child in a room with a dangerous animal and cheering them on through a closed door.

i love your proposal and totally understand what you mean but if i may remind you, in this illusion, children sometimes do get locked in a room with a dangerous animal then cheered on through a closed door, if you know what i mean...just understand those "benevolent forces" could foresee the child winning and/or becoming something much stronger as a result of the unfortunate situation, or "happy" accident/mistake, that was allowed to occur. it's simple for me...i think when you permanently realize everyone is yourself you realize there isn't a thing you don't do for yourself/others therefore you become 100% sto always from then on. sto also stands for service to observer in my book. my book also says, constantly, everything is an illusion so there's no telling how many happy "accidents" can/will occur, or have occurred, to get us as strong as we can possibly be...but i'll bet strength is just something that we can't quit growing...

"thanks for the replies. i guess my main point of contention is that, imo, we're all pure service-to-self beings. not a single thing we do is for the benefit of anyone but ourselves--even seemingly altruistic acts are done with some sort of expected reward in mind, either in this world or the next. when we see someone we like, we think "exploitable resource" deep down and that translates emotionally as love, happiness etc. in the presence of the person. those who are considered to be "enlightened" are merely those who have a long-term, wide-angle view of things. they act with generosity and kindness only to further their own security and prosperity, whether they acknowledge it or not.

fundamentally, i think we're all magnetic/devouring entities because we love existence, and existence entails sacrifice and consumption in one way or another. the confusion arises when we confuse hyperactive social instincts with some sort of "true love", when the only true love is looking at something and desiring it."

and thank you! i had a feeling you'd draw in some really good replies with that and i think you definitely did...your reply here is great, too.

good job my people! keep it up.

Jeia Ra Manuk

06-27-2011, 08:01 AM

oriax,
exactly! i'm glad we could help. so as i said, numbers... no numbers... everything is just two sides of the same coin. because we are intrigued by existence and want to experience it, we want it... that's not quantum science... its basic and i underline basic logic. i've been aware of the fact that we are a whole since i was 8 years old, but that did not make me want to end my existence. that is why, in the law of one, the level 8 is the same as level 1... and then the cycle starts over. we heard the sweet music, we don't want it to end. there was no purpose there, so.. we created a purpose. and with time, we nourished believes and understandings that suit us. and the whole thing about being good or bad comes down to our own understandings in these opposites. it is like that age old dilemma, if you know something really bad you gotta tell your loved one, but you know it will hurt them more than anything else in the entire world... would you tell them? some would, and some won't! but all for love...
putting a percentage on such a thing really limits our capabilities. it is asking us to follow someone else's system, thus integrate and become a part of that system. we must all find a system for ourselves, so we can identify ourselves. this is why it is so hard for us to understand such concepts as spontaneous manifestation, because that's not what we've been taught and no one brought us up being in coherence with this information. we need numbers because they have been a part of our system for so long. let me just give you a little example, i think it will be of help.
you probably heard that according to a certain person, the world was suppose to end on may 21, 2011... now, it has nothing to do with the person or his previous predictions. well just a little, and all on the grounds of "belief." i learned about this date like less than a week before it happened. people had little time to find out about this date and to form any sorts of opinions. and at the end of the day the believers went home disappointed, but most of the world's population didn't even know that something was suppose to happen.
let's look at 2012. well, i don't want to be wrong in numbers, but pretty much, since the beginning of interpretation of the maya calendar (50+ years ago) the word about this day has been spreading. almost all western adults know about this and had already formed their opinions on the subject. do you see where i am going with this?

we are purposefully, but subconsciously creating a situation that will act as a sequence in which we won't have to work hard to understand the next stage, but will be changed (transformed) on the spot.

it is like your personality, certain character traits stand out from all the rest. so, if you look at our collective personality, there are also going to be traits that stand out. it all depends on what the majority wants... the majority wanted sci-fi to become reality and it did!
but because this essentially happens on the subconscious level, there are many people that are not even aware of what they want on december 21, 2012. but their opinions are already framed based on their personalities. and when they see all of us waiting for that which we are waiting for they will be able to accept the change and come with us. and again, as i said above. in this system, those people are those who do good to themselves and to others.

for example, my mother, she has no idea... yet i know, when we are there, and i tell her: "come on mom" she will ascend with us, because it is out of love for herself and the love she has for me that she will be able to accept the change.

so, it doesn't matter who knows what and who is "enlightened" or not. for example, when i speak to myself i am happy admitting that i am speaking with myself and not my higher self. because it is essentially only me... how can i be higher and lower?
but for some this system works! it don't matter if i call my "higher self" bob, it is still me.

=]
love

Tenet Nosce

06-27-2011, 08:29 AM

oriax- i don't disagree with your observations, but respectfully, you are missing the point.

they act with generosity and kindness only to further their own security and prosperity, whether they acknowledge it or not.

yes, exactly. because another's security and prosperity is their own. whether they acknowledge it or not.

the law of one implies that there is only one being in the universe. philosophically, this view is called monism.

do you have a point of contention with this belief? if so... let's hear it!

otherwise, we are debating semantics. i have gone down this thread many, many times my friend, and it does not lead anywhere useful, in my opinion.

invariably, somebody comes along and says, well imo sts means this and sto means this, and then people are debating what exactly constitutes service. which is all well and good, but missing the point.

we are all one.

taking the concept of sto/sts out of the context of the law of one and debating what we think it means is fruitless. the only meaning which is relevant (in this context) is the meaning which ra intended with the communication.

interpreting sto/sts within a dualistic mental framework which takes "self" and "other" to be two different beings is pointless. it is kind of like getting a diagnosis of diabetes from your doctor, and then denying it by saying, "well to me diabetes is such-and-such so i don't really have diabetes."

no, you have diabetes. the only definition of diabetes that is relevant is the one that is the consensus of the medical community. you are totally free to make up your own definitions, but they wouldn't carry any weight with anybody but yourself.

so i will ask you directly: are you a monist? or are you coming from some other philosophical viewpoint?

Jeia Ra Manuk

06-27-2011, 11:55 AM

tenet nosce,
thank you!

Oriax

06-27-2011, 12:13 PM

just to clarify, i took issue with the way it was explained by "ra". i do believe we are shards of a greater conciousness/force, but we became individuals for a reason and must act within that paradigm. service to others/self is really quite simple, so i'm not sure why there should be a semantic debate. i'm just saying service to self always comes first, and service to others is only carried out in order to satisfy service to self (for any sane being). they are two very different things, as you can serve others without serving yourself and vice versa. coming from this perspective, i found it rather disturbing when the material wagged its finger at me and said i needed to be 51% service to others, otherwise i wouldn't be making it to the better planes of existence. it kind of reminded me of certain dogmatic religions which i've always rejected. also, the material is quite clear that there is a difference between the two, even going so far as to assign star wars/green lantern colours to the good and bad guys (green/blue & red respectively) so i'm not sure why some on here are suggesting there's no difference.

as for the benevolent forces... perhaps i'm a cynic, but i don't think they can see the future half as well as they claim they can. their "prime directive" is likely because they realize they have limited means and don't want to get their hands dirty, much like us. if i ascend i'll certainly be giving them a verbal lashing for being such poor custodians. furthermore, "ra" seems to be breaking the "prime directive" and pushing moralistic material on human beings which is usually the modus operandi of not-so-friendly entities.

Tenet Nosce

06-27-2011, 04:08 PM

they are two very different things, as you can serve others without serving yourself and vice versa.

according to the law of one, no, you can't. ;)

MarkM

06-27-2011, 05:45 PM

lol! any time attempts are made to hold a discussion which comes from the standpoint of unity consciousness, problems seem to invariably arise in terms of reference and viewpoint. the human mind, as i mentioned previously, seems to operate from the native 3d basis of duality/multiplicity and relativity.

for some, the law of one is more than a philosophy, it is a way of life.

moreover, the material as versioned by the ra represents an attempt to describe in terms understandable to the relativistic human mind that which is essentially nigh impossible to comprehend with the intellect alone, uninformed by a deep and inner knowing.

actually, the loo would have it that the very many who base their philosophies on the separateness of individuals (or any other philosophy) have made no mistake whatsoever!

so in this i would stand with oriax' viewpoints and realize that his or her ideas are perfect just the way they are, and will aid in oriax' own journey.

the loo seems most valuable for they who have experienced some measure of having intuited unity consciousness over the long term and of having developed an inner heart-centered knowing beyond the limited reference of the analytical mind. this is the result of many lifetimes served in 3d, and this is why the loo is not pushed.

in my own humble experience, many years of living and perhaps many lifetimes of living served to have me instantly recognize the ra material loo as that which i had long been attempting to live, and for me it was like a homecoming!

(according to ra, the ra material is not the loo, but merely a distorted and imperfect attempt to portray for humans that which is eternal and unchanging beyond all experience)

i personally feel that the ra are attempting to describe a vision of a universal structure and ordering of the evolution of consciousness for those who wish to try on some of these ideas, and these are not offered as dogmatic truths which anyone must 'get', but offered as gifts for those who so fancy, nothing more.

self literally equalling other self and the concurrent impossibility of service to anything other than the one intelligent infinity is something which comes from the standpoint of unity consciousness - but as most humans have not really worked with and integrated this lifestyle, it is perfectly okay to perceive service to self as opposed to service to others.

the 51% and 95% thing may be just a convenient modality, like a parable, intended to seed unity consciousness. oriax is right in that we are working from a dualistic perspective, unavoidably. unconditional love, though, can move one to selflessly serve others - speaking from the dualist perspective - just ask any parent who sacrifices for the well being of her children! uh, maybe we'd better see this if we were parents... ;)

according to the ra, 3d represents an evolutionary journey over many lifetimes of study. as such, we have folks in this world who are at all different stages along the journey.

one may consider that there is made available study material for every stage along the process, hmm? ;)

the material is there in response to a spiritual calling and pains were taken by those of ra to point out that this material be made passively available as a reference for those who are drawn to it by whatever avenue serendipity makes available and through the free will choice of those who choose to try it on. it is offered as a tray of pretzels on the coffee table - available.

those who encounter the material and ask questions perhaps may be offered viewpoints, and they who offer viewpoints may do well to consider that no two people will interpret the material the same way. some folks very rightly choose to reject some or all of the material if it doesn't resonate or coincide with their path.

oriax, i take it that you have had some curiosity about the material or else you wouldn't be here. you seem to not resonate with at least some of the material, that's fine! i wouldn't try to convince you of anything here, or tell you that you're wrong about your thoughts... yet you're here, amongst some other members who enjoy discussing the loo so what would you like to discuss in a positive sense - what does resonate with you? mark

Jeia Ra Manuk

06-27-2011, 07:57 PM

hey mark,
well i am a parent, and i know what you are talking about when it comes to unconditional love. this is probably why it is easier for me to understand i am one in the same with people that are not related to me rather than those who are. i sit here and think this child is me and he is here so that i learn to love myself through this child. because we are one thing, serving others and oneself is the same thing. and it is by serving others.. or the parts of the self that are out of our individual 3d capsules, that we learn to really love ourselves. the only way there, is if we accept one another and accept each others' opinions. because the more we split in our philosophies the further we are dividing and trying to get everyone into one philosophy doesn't work either.

so in this i would stand with oriax' viewpoints and realize that his or her ideas are perfect just the way they are, and will aid in oriax' own journey.

so i am happy to hear you say this =] it is all about understanding that we are all here for a purpose. we are here to help one another to frame a system in which we realize that we are one. that is why it is hard to understand ra and jesus. when jesus was always referring to himself as his own father, the father is him and within him. he just meant that whatever force is guiding him (which was also ra) is telling him of the concept of the loo.

no really, i gotta say mark... i am starting to understand why people are so intrigued by david. if i did not know all of this already, my roof would probably flip if i'd hear it for the first time out of his mouth. he's just like he always was. i am glad to see he didn't change at all... i am sure he already made the final connection and is waiting for you guys to make it as well.

sorry, back to the topic. people are happy with whatever makes them happy. we are happy here talking to one another. but it is exactly by talking to one another and sharing opinions, we serve one another! we are already in the process of creating the next density space all we need to do is collectively open the door and walk through. so encourage discussion, speak from your soul and don't ever try to make yourself sound different from what you really are!

love

Tenet Nosce

06-27-2011, 11:16 PM

actually, the loo would have it that the very many who base their philosophies on the separateness of individuals (or any other philosophy) have made no mistake whatsoever!

well this is definitely true. i hope my posts didn't imply anything different. there is nothing wrong with viewing the world through the lens of separate individuals. it appears that way for a reason! the illusion of separateness is the default mode of human consciousness. (at least for now.) i certainly don't know anybody who experiences unity consciousness, least of all me.

what i am attempting to offer here is an invitation to make a clear distinction between the law of one, and the ra material. i'm with oriax on the 51/95%. i tend to start to tune out during the discourse on chakras, and i have a really hard time getting through the part on tarot. in my opinion, there are some good nuggets in there but i can definitely recommend better sources on chakras or the tarot.

in my experience, i have found it to be immeasurably useful to set all of that aside all of that chatter and contemplate the core idea that every consciousness is one consciousness. despite all appearances. despite all the evidence to the contrary. i mean, this is a pretty incredible idea. how could it be true? what if it is true?

when i opened myself up to that idea i started to have a new kind of experience that actually validated its truth. i took it on as a hypothesis and said, "ok universe, if everything is connected then i want to see it for myself. show me." and it did. i'm not talking necessarily about mystical moments, but often what would otherwise be an every day common moment, where suddenly a different reality peeks through for a bit. for me, it doesn't usually last long, but it is enough for me to be able to have moved beyond doubt.

in terms of the material, i would consider myself to be "polarized to sto" but i am by no means a saint. i wake up grouchy. i often have a bad attitude. most of the time, the way i treat others how i want to be treated is to leave them alone! what i'm trying to say is, forget about the 51% mumbo jumbo. who cares? do you treat others with a certain basic level of respect? are there people you care about? great, you qualify! now for the interesting stuff...

so by all means, don't take my word for it. or anybody else's for that matter. you can tell ra to take their morality stuff and shove it- they won't mind. if you are open to the universe showing you, it will do so. and it will be in whatever way is most perfect for you.

Oriax

06-28-2011, 06:13 AM

Dorothy Kulik

06-28-2011, 02:21 PM

it is my understanding that we only need to think in terms of service to others at least 51% of the time to have the right stuff for ascension to a totally positive polarity. it is my understanding that we need to think in terms of service to self at least 95% of the time to have the right stuff for ascension to a totally negative polarity. i don't know very many people who are so totally selfish and self centered that they spend at least 95% of their time totally focused on manipulating the world around them to serve themselves only. i recall ra referred to rasputin as an example of someone who fits the 95% negative polarity archetype. i would think key members of the illuminati and the bilderbergers might qualify for ascension to a totally negative polarity too. that's my understanding. i hope sharing that has improved your understanding. if i am incorrect in my understanding, then someone please enlighten me.

DFS

06-28-2011, 06:26 PM

30.1
questioner:
i am going to make a statement and then let you correct it if i have made any errors. this is the statement: creation is a single entity or unity. if only a single entity exists, then the only concept of service is the concept of service to self. if this single entity subdivides, then the concept of service of one of its parts to one of its other parts is born. from this springs the equality of service to self or to others. it would seem that as the logos subdivided, parts would select each orientation. as individualized entities emerge in space/time then i would assume that they have polarity. is this statement correct?
ra:
i am ra. this statement is quite perceptive and correct until the final phrase in which we note that the polarities begin to be explored only at the point when a third density entity becomes aware of the possibility of choice between the concept or distortion of service to self or service to others. this marks the end of what you may call the unself-conscious or innocent phase of conscious awareness.
***

***

the questioner, don, nicely sums up some of the points already noted in this thread. i would agree that focusing on the percentages as some sort of goal may be misleading. yet, ra's clarification above clearly indicates just how basic the distinction between sts and sto actually is.

perhaps the difficulty derives from the term "service", which connotes actions and reactions when what are really at issue are the beliefs, attitudes and biases underlying and motivating those actions and reactions. it is one's beliefs, attitudes and biases that underpin and frame one's focus and intentions, which in turn, guide one's choices, including the most basic and unconscious of one's responses, actions and reactions.

we are like oysters creating a pearl layer by layer in that we add to and reinforce or neutralize our beliefs, attitudes and biases with every choice, response, action and reaction. and as ra notes, once we become conscious that we are co-creators fully responsible for our choices, we must eventually select a focus for the creation of our personal oyster. to stretch the metaphor, we must find a focus that will create either a black pearl or a white one.

here's how ra states this process in 51.10:
"the indigo body may be seen to be an analog for intelligent energy. it is, in microcosm, the logos. the intelligent energy of the mind/body/spirit complex totality draws its existence from intelligent infinity or the creator. this creator is to be understood, both in macrocosm and microcosm, to have, as we have said, two natures: the unpotentiated infinity which is intelligent; this is all that there is.

free will has potentiated, both the creator of us all and our selves as co-creators with intelligent infinity which has will. this will may be drawn upon by the indigo or form-making body and its wisdom used to then choose the appropriate locus and type of experience which this co-creator or sub-sub-logos you call so carelessly a person will take."

each of us must, as co-creators, choose a focus for our co-creating and there are two basic paths or patterns. we can focus on separation, individuation and control, on the sts path, or we may focus on unification, forgiveness and acceptance, on the sto path.

if you think this division arbitrary or a construct of ra's philosophy, consider how the two polarities or patterns are expressed in our collective consciousness. consider icons such as hitler or gandhi, and even more telling, consider our myths and popular fictions. the villains always put their interests and goals first and treat others as objects to be used or destroyed without compunction. on the other hand, heroines and heroes are willing to risk their own lives for the sake of others and/or for the greater good and to combat injustice.

in fact, conflict between those focused on sts and those dedicated to sto is at the heart of our collective mythos, and since we collectively created this mythos, the clear divergence of the two patterns can hardly be coincidental. the need to evaluate and choose between competing dualities is an inescapable function of our 3d consciousness.

we must choose. to be alive as a mind/body/spirit complex requires billions of choices every moment, most of which are made by the subconscious. yet, it is the choices that mold our beliefs, attitudes and biases, the choices that layer our personal pearl that truly matter to our true self or soul self, to our essential self, the self progressing toward reunification with the one creator.

this is my personal take and should be considered with appropriate skepticism. <smile> yet, i do find the sts, sto dichotomy a useful tool for viewing many of the biases, attitudes, responses, actions and reactions of the creator expressing as self in this 3d illusion.

dfs

Tenet Nosce

06-28-2011, 10:24 PM

i like the scientific aspects and think there is some veracity to what is being said, but i like to break things down with logic (to the best of my ability) and then throw the sometimes controversial conclusions out there to see the reactions. i'm something of a devil's advocate, but only because i think the truth has been villified by certain groups and mindsets. i guess i could be described as iconoclastic to an extreme degree, but i do what i do out of love and as such i am probably something of a "controlled opposition" within the context of the concious universe.

i am afraid that your iconoclasm is somewhat misplaced, as i am not a fervent follower of the cult of ra. nor do i think that ra is infallible. as i have repeatedly stated, i share in many of your concerns and criticisms of the material.

so are you really playing devil's advocate? or just being argumentative?

i guess my main point of contention is that, imo, we're all pure service-to-self beings. not a single thing we do is for the benefit of anyone but ourselves--even seemingly altruistic acts are done with some sort of expected reward in mind, either in this world or the next.

here you say that all acts are selfish acts.

they are two very different things, as you can serve others without serving yourself and vice versa.

now here you are saying that one can serve another without serving oneself.

so which is it?

yes, you can, otherwise the distinction wouldn't have been drawn in the first place.

you made this distinction, not ra. there is nothing in the material that says that one being can serve another being without simultaneously serving itself. so your reasoning here is circular.

all i have been trying to say, ad nauseum, is that according to the law of one, your self and another's self are the same self. therefore, if you serve another you serve yourself. that is what it says. so my apologies if i am coming off as righteous but i am 100% confident that is what the law of one says.

whether or not the law of one is true is a completely different discussion. one which we apparently are not going to have anytime soon in this thread.

Oriax

06-29-2011, 12:40 AM

the thing is, i consider anything other than 100% service-to-self to be madness, for reasons i've explained in previous posts. even with something like parenting, the parent wouldn't do what they did if it didn't give them some sort of satisfaction (sense of accomplishment, not being lonely etc.) service to others (when done successfully), is essentially an entity recognizing they have limits and being nice to lure in the resources and abilities others have to offer.

kundalini

06-29-2011, 03:56 PM

also, "benevolent" forces wouldn't leave highly advanced and intelligent "negative" forces here if they truly believed in service to others. it's akin to locking a child in a room with a dangerous animal and cheering them on through a closed door.

i'm not sure you understand the spirit of what ra tends to say. they don't believe in service to others. they believe in free will. we are on this planet with a set of pre-incarnative catalysts given by our higher selves in order to bring about certain choices in our lives. these choices will help us learn certain things that we wouldn't have been able to see in any other condition. sure the ra tends to promote sto as that appears to them as the most effient path to a plentiful harvest. but there is no way the ra would want anyone to go against their polarisation. you are what you are and if you want to be sts then all the best to you, honestly. to expect everyone else to be as such is folly.

this isn't the density of knowing. this is the density of choices.

scottki

06-29-2011, 07:56 PM

there are some who perceive that service to others should involve a sacrifice of the self. however, this is a limited view. and incorrect. you cannot give to another by taking away from yourself. it simply does not work that way.

i love our little debates tenet :)

and of course i disagree. although there are occasions that one can help another with no sacrifice - the easy way, like a billionaire giving to charity. but imo there are occasions where sto does require a sacrifice. just yesterday was a perfect example. my mother loves watching tennis and being british loves wimbledon the most. yesterday was quarter finals day featuring federer, nadal, murray (who grew up 12 miles away) among others. yesterday was the best day of tennis in the whole year. she would have liked nothing more than to shut herself off from the world that day and savour every minute of every game. instead she took 2 buses over 3 hours each way to visit her brother in law in hospital who has cancer. why did she not go another day? because that day was convenient for her sisters. she did not even bring the tennis up and they did not think of it. now is that not a sacrifice? and what do you suggest she should have done?

oriax, is this altruism or not?

scottki

06-29-2011, 08:27 PM

also, "benevolent" forces wouldn't leave highly advanced and intelligent "negative" forces here if they truly believed in service to others. it's akin to locking a child in a room with a dangerous animal and cheering them on through a closed door.

the quarantine kept the negative ets out but the point of benevolent ets not stopping genocide is an interesting one - although according to dw they do stop nukes. the answer is of course free will. it is similar to the debate over whether the west should interfere in a, to our eyes, backward country like afghanistan. the majority view is that we should because girls having acid thrown in their eyes for trying to go to school is indeed abhorrent. but we as a planet must seem equally backward to the benevolent ets. yet with their superior intellect they know that we have to evolve and learn for ourselves.

twva

06-30-2011, 08:01 AM

re: sacrifice -- what do you make of this quote?

94.25 then i am guessing that the crossed legs of the entity in card four have a meaning similar to the crux ansata. is this correct?

ra: i am ra. this is correct. the cross formed by the living limbs of the image signifies that which is the nature of mind/body/spirit complexes in manifestation within your illusion. there is no experience which is not purchased by effort of some kind, no act of service-to-self or others which does not bear a price, to the entity manifesting, commensurate with its purity. all things in manifestation may be seen in one way or another to be offering themselves in order that transformations may take place upon the level appropriate to the action.

Tenet Nosce

06-30-2011, 05:40 PM

i love our little debates tenet :)

lol, yes. but i do get what you mean. i also get what oriax is saying about when people try to disguise a selfish motive as an altruistic one. i think most of the debating comes in because i am rather stubborn about interpreting the material from the highest density perspective that i feel i can muster.

if your mom really wanted to watch wimbledon, but instead visited her brother in law, then yes in a way that is a sacrifice.

but if we move beyond appearances, beyond the form of the giving, then another perspective emerges. what i see about the story that you shared is that your mom chose to give love. so in giving love to another, she causes them to feel loved. but she also gets to experience herself as loving- or perhaps as love itself. so in serving another, she is serving herself.

on one level, if i give a million dollars to a bum, then that is a million less dollars that i have for myself. but on another level, in giving the million dollars to the bum, i am causing them to feel abundance. and in the giving of the million dollars, i also get to experience myself as abundant. and it is that feeling of abundance that's going to attract the next million dollars to my pocket.

so there is always an equal and opposite exchange. see what i'm getting at?

when i first came across this concept in the loo, i felt much like oriax has expressed. it was like... what the heck does this mean? am i supposed to just run around the planet like some sort of santa claus figure? how am i supposed to serve others if i can barely serve myself?

and then one day it just clicked. the other is myself. aha! this changes everything.

no longer did i envision serving others as giving away every last penny to my name, or spending every free moment working on some type of community project or charity. no longer did i think i had to become a selfless goody-two-shoes in order to progress spiritually.

this is how i think about it now: what do i really want out of life? it always comes down to three things- peace, love and joy. on the surface i might think that i want a nice house, or a tropical vacation, or a relationship, or whatever. but underneath that what i am hoping is that these things are going to increase the amount of peace, love, or joy in my life.

so now when i look at others and think about how i can best be of service, i no longer feel overwhelmed because i can see past the surface desires to what they truly want. even if they don't consciously realize it themselves, i know what they really want because i know what -i- really want and they are me.

ok. so now this is more manageable to me. now i see that i don't have to sacrifice diddly squat in order to be of service. i can keep my time and my trinkets to myself because that's not what it is really about anyway. heck, i don't even need to leave my house in order to be of service. whew! that takes a load off of my soul.

now i see that the first order of business is to engender a greater sense of peace, love, and joy in my own life so that i can share it with others. and in sharing it with others, i increase it within myself. so there is a positive feedback loop going on here.

now when i look out into the world and observe all the war and suffering and strife, i no longer feel these pangs of guilt because i think that i need to be out there doing something about it in order to be of service. if i want to, that's fine. and sometimes, i do. but what is most important is that i take every measure within my power to create my own little bubble of peace here in my life.

am i being "selfish"? abso-freekin-lutely! how else could it work? what good would i be trying to bring peace into the world if i can't even bring peace to my own life? how can i possibly love another, if i don't even love myself? how can i bring joy to another's life if i am a miserable wretch?

see where i am going? in my view, the very best way that i can be of service to others is to be of service to myself. but not in the superficial sense that many people view it. to be sure, it may appear that way to others, but i am not concerned with appearances.

sure, somebody can look at me on that peaceful, secluded beach, joyfully splashing in the ocean with a loved one and think, "look how selfish he is out there enjoying himself while the rest of the world suffers!" well, that is their prerogative. to me, i am doing the best thing i know of to help increase the vibrations of peace, love, and joy on the planet- by allowing those vibrations to come through me into the world.

so, in a nutshell, what i have found is that when i conceptualize service in terms of what i am being, rather than what i am doing, the paradoxes start to resolve themselves in my mind. and to me, this is a sure sign that i am on the right track.

Tenet Nosce

06-30-2011, 06:47 PM

am i being "selfish"? abso-freekin-lutely! how else could it work? what good would i be trying to bring peace into the world if i can even bring peace to my own life? how can i possibly love another, if i don't even love myself? how can i bring joy to another's life if i am a miserable wretch?

i wanted to flap my jaws a little more on this, because i think that many people are troubled when they first come across the law of one material. even more so with 2012 right around the corner.

how overwhelming it must be to read that you need to "make a choice to dedicate your life to service of others" if you are still interpreting it in the sense that we are normally taught by society.

i think about a teenager, still living in some god awful family situation. doesn't even have a driver license, much less a stable means to provide for themselves financially. now they're supposed to be mother teresa on top of it? if that were me, i might feel like telling ra to shove it and putting a bullet in my brain.

so when i observe somebody going down that road, i just wanna scream "no! don't do it!". i know this probably comes across as being a self-righteous jerk-off to some, but i also know that this is exactly what i needed at times in the past. i've had my head so far up my behind at times in my life that it took somebody to say, "hey listen to me! shut your mouth for a second and just listen! you might be clever, but i am wise. just stop arguing for one damn minute. i am trying to help you!" thank god somebody cared about me enough to be the self-righteous jerk-off in my life.

you know, it is interesting how many of us hold beliefs about the world that make us downright miserable. and yet, when somebody tries to offer us a different viewpoint, we reject them and even more stubbornly hold on to our own. there was a period in my life where i was taking some personal growth seminars. and despite the fact that i found much of it to be corny, or even cultish, there were a few moments that absolutely changed my life forever. one of them involved this statement:

most people in life would rather be right than be happy.

at that time in my life, that was me. 100%. my mind was filled with all these conceptions of the world that were making me miserable. and yet, it was more important for me to feel that i was right in my beliefs, than to exchange them for others that were more conducive to happiness.

getting back to our hypothetical teenager. this is what i would tell them. forget about others... for now. i want you to do what will make you happy. be more loving to yourself. find something, anything, that can bring some moments of peace to your life, no matter how small or fleeting. that is serving others. because the moment you start to lift your own vibration, the vibrations of those around you begin to lift also.

this is the "hidden" secret of the law of one.

raise your own vibration. in the end, that's all you can do, and it is more than enough. that is the highest form of service, and i would challenge anybody to come up with something greater.

i think a -great- example is offered by dw. it is part amusing and part troubling to watch people get all uppity because david dares to do something for himself. waaaaah! david doesn't write updates enough! waaaahh! david charges too much for his seminars... he should give it away for free! waaaaaaaah! david is singing songs when -i- want him to talk about ufos! waaaaaaahh! when are the ets coming to save us as david promised they would?

frankly, i'm surprised he hasn't told everybody to go eat galactic remnants by now. :d

in my view, all those people don't know the first thing about the law of one. they just keep trying to mold it into their own preconceived notions of "service to others" as equivalent to some falsely exaggerated and unattainable conception of "selflessness" that they have been programmed to believe in by the corporate media machine. um, hello? it's a control mechanism people! are you even paying any attention to what david has actually been saying all these years? or do you just want to be right?

ya know? i wish these folks would just stop flabbering their jaws and just think about it for a minute. if there really are 8d beings out there reveling in cosmic bliss, are they "selfish" for not coming here to earth to save your needy behind? no- they are hanging out in cosmic bliss holding the vibration so that one day you, too, can find your way to that place. even if it takes you another 30 million years.

get a clue! seriously, the cranial-rectal inversion of some people who fancy themselves as spiritual must be some kind of cosmic joke that is just outside my ability to grasp.. so anyway that is my bag of pennies. i think i am going to go do something pleasurable for myself now... :cool:

scottki

06-30-2011, 08:25 PM

originally posted by oriax

the thing is, i consider anything other than 100% service-to-self to be madness, for reasons i've explained in previous posts. even with something like parenting, the parent wouldn't do what they did if it didn't give them some sort of satisfaction (sense of accomplishment, not being lonely etc.) service to others (when done successfully), is essentially an entity recognizing they have limits and being nice to lure in the resources and abilities others have to offer.

i think you might resonate with ayn rand's the virtue of selfishness

i have no idea if it is true, but the rumour is that rand was the mistress of one of the rothschilds and that atlas shrugged was a blue print for the nwo. what is true is that people like alan greenspan and the silicon valley ceos are huge fans, which probably explains a lot!

i think the above posted quote by dfs says a lot and, forgive me for saying so, maybe you are still at the stage where in all innocence you can not understand why anyone would do something not for them/their family/pack. either that, or you have chosen to pursue the sts path. there is no escaping from the fact that gaining in positive polarity benefits the individual and therefore could be deemed sts. it is therefore my opinion that if one thinks they are doing a good deed, whatever the motive, that gains polarity. even ra said they had a strong desire to graduate to 7d and therefore their actions, whatever they might be, are maybe to achieve that goal?

questioner:
i am going to make a statement and then let you correct it if i have made any errors. this is the statement: creation is a single entity or unity. if only a single entity exists, then the only concept of service is the concept of service to self. if this single entity subdivides, then the concept of service of one of its parts to one of its other parts is born. from this springs the equality of service to self or to others. it would seem that as the logos subdivided, parts would select each orientation. as individualized entities emerge in space/time then i would assume that they have polarity. is this statement correct?
ra:
i am ra. this statement is quite perceptive and correct until the final phrase in which we note that the polarities begin to be explored only at the point when a third density entity becomes aware of the possibility of choice between the concept or distortion of service to self or service to others. this marks the end of what you may call the unself-conscious or innocent phase of conscious awareness.
***

scottki

06-30-2011, 09:12 PM

so there is always an equal and opposite exchange. see what i'm getting at?
yes. on the whole i do not normally go out looking to be of service to the world, i just try to go with the other person's desire and not to manipulate events to what i want because i often find myself explaining how my way is better and then stopping half way through when i realize that i am trying and going to get my own way! i think you can be of service every day just by giving in to other people's desires day to day. although living in thailand you have to watch because if the thais think they can get money out of you they will try! i also attempt to be happy the whole time as i am a big believer in like attracts like. and i do not think choosing to be happy is selfish in any way!

am i being "selfish"? abso-freekin-lutely! how else could it work? what good would i be trying to bring peace into the world if i can't even bring peace to my own life? how can i possibly love another, if i don't even love myself? how can i bring joy to another's life if i am a miserable wretch?

as i said above, i do not think doing stuff to make yourself happy is selfish. but sometimes giving in to another's demands does cause me frustration. funny thing about loving yourself in order to love others is that for me, i could only love myself when i started loving others! i can thank reading the law of one for that.

scottki

06-30-2011, 09:52 PM

raise your own vibration. in the end, that's all you can do, and it is more than enough. that is the highest form of service, and i would challenge anybody to come up with something greater.

this is right out of the abraham hicks school of thought and something i have been debating in my mind for a long time. i have actually heard dw talk about them a few years back on the radio but he does not anymore. i have been debating it because i know that one's vibration is all important and that if you hold a high vibration your life is going to be good. but on ocassion it does go against a sto philosophy. if someone is very ill, visiting them will more than likely make you sad and therefore lower your vibration. and obviously visiting someone in need is classic sto. so i think you are right, the law of attraction is the secret hidden message in the law of one because it sometimes goes against the sto philosophy. on the whole though i think the two can be achieved with out much conflict. what ra is saying though is, as with there being no point to healing with pyramids because the harvest is upon us, there is nothing more important than making the harvest and that means that there is nothing more important than being sto. they know the difference between 3d and 4d, we do not, and they are saying 'trust us, you want to make 4d! so the choice is yours, focus on this life and focus on keeping a high vibration, or focus on making harvest and occasionally sacrifice some vibration. that feels good to have it clear in my own mind!

EcyaC

07-01-2011, 08:09 AM

"...i think about a teenager, still living in some god awful family situation. doesn't even have a driver license, much less a stable means to provide for themselves financially. now they're supposed to be mother teresa on top of it? if that were me, i might feel like telling ra to shove it and putting a bullet in my brain.

so when i observe somebody going down that road, i just wanna scream "no! don't do it!". i know this probably comes across as being a self-righteous jerk-off to some, but i also know that this is exactly what i needed at times in the past. i've had my head so far up my behind at times in my life that it took somebody to say, "hey listen to me! shut your mouth for a second and just listen! you might be clever, but i am wise. just stop arguing for one damn minute. i am trying to help you!" thank god somebody cared about me enough to be the self-righteous jerk-off in my life.

you know, it is interesting how many of us hold beliefs about the world that make us downright miserable. and yet, when somebody tries to offer us a different viewpoint, we reject them and even more stubbornly hold on to our own. there was a period in my life where i was taking some personal growth seminars. and despite the fact that i found much of it to be corny, or even cultish, there were a few moments that absolutely changed my life forever. one of them involved this statement:

most people in life would rather be right than be happy.

at that time in my life, that was me. 100%. my mind was filled with all these conceptions of the world that were making me miserable. and yet, it was more important for me to feel that i was right in my beliefs, than to exchange them for others that were more conducive to happiness.

getting back to our hypothetical teenager. this is what i would tell them. forget about others... for now. i want you to do what will make youhappy. be more loving to yourself. find something, anything, that can bring some moments of peace to your life, no matter how small or fleeting. that is serving others. because the moment you start to lift your own vibration, the vibrations of those around you begin to lift also.

this is the "hidden" secret of the law of one.

raise your own vibration. in the end, that's all you can do, and it is more than enough. that is the highest form of service, and i would challenge anybody to come up with something greater.

i think a -great- example is offered by dw. it is part amusing and part troubling to watch people get all uppity because david dares to do something for himself. waaaaah! david doesn't write updates enough! waaaahh! david charges too much for his seminars... he should give it away for free! waaaaaaaah! david is singing songs when -i- want him to talk about ufos! waaaaaaahh! when are the ets coming to save us as david promised they would?

frankly, i'm surprised he hasn't told everybody to go eat galactic remnants by now.

in my view, all those people don't know the first thing about the law of one. they just keep trying to mold it into their own preconceived notions of "service to others" as equivalent to some falsely exaggerated and unattainable conception of "selflessness" that they have been programmed to believe in by the corporate media machine. um, hello? it's a control mechanism people! are you even paying any attention to what david has actually been saying all these years? or do you just want to be right?

ya know? i wish these folks would just stop flabbering their jaws and just think about it for a minute. if there really are 8d beings out there reveling in cosmic bliss, are they "selfish" for not coming here to earth to save your needy behind? no- they are hanging out in cosmic bliss holding the vibration so that one day you, too, can find your way to that place. even if it takes you another 30 million years.

get a clue! seriously, the cranial-rectal inversion of some people who fancy themselves as spiritual must be some kind of cosmic joke that is just outside my ability to grasp.. so anyway that is my bag of pennies. i think i am going to go do something pleasurable for myself now... "

despite the length i really enjoyed all of your post which started with 'lol...' then got summed up in that beautiful nutshell but this one here of yours, that i've quoted, just kept getting more and more obnoxious...

does this ra quote make any sense to you?

"in your illusion of physical existence all experience springs from the law of free will or the way of confusion...intelligent infinity discerned a concept; namely, freedom of will of awareness."

to me it means one cannot be aware of, or experience, anything which was not collectively approved of, or willed to happen, in what you may call the future.

MarkM

07-01-2011, 06:13 PM

with the ra we have a sixth density being which is communicating, and for this to occur the ra first had to locate a channel which harboured the purity as well as the necessary lack of distortion with regard to concepts of the law of one. then, a narrow band transmission of thought energy entered the mind/body/spirit complex of carla.

what happened is that the ra occupied the m/b/s complex and intended their communication – their part was to artfully couch their concepts into forms which were easier for carla’s own mental circuitry to ‘unravel’ into linear english speech.

the ra must step down whatever mental processes that are native to them, and must labour to think in dualistic terms in order that their messages may be intelligible to us.

the ra know that there are no polarities, for example, yet must speak in terms of that which is evident to us through our experiential lens, as in the conceptual juxtaposition of these two snippets. note that the differing natures of the answers pertain to the nature of the questions:

28.16 questioner: thank you. when this major galaxy is formed by the logos, polarity then exists in a sense that we have electrical polarity. we do have electrical polarity existing at that time. is that correct?
ra: i am ra. i accept this as correct with the stipulation that what you term electrical be understood as not only the one, larson, stipulated its meaning but also in what you would call the metaphysical sense.
28.17 questioner: are you saying then that we have not only a polarity of electrical charge but also a polarity in consciousness at that time?
ra: i am ra. this is correct. all is potentially available from the beginning of your physical space/time; it then being the function of consciousness complexes to begin to use the physical materials to gain experience to then polarize in a metaphysical sense. the potentials for this are not created by the experiencer but by intelligent energy.

and this one:

4.20 questioner: my objective is primarily to discover more of the law of one, and it would be very helpful to discover the techniques of healing. i am aware of your problem with respect to free will. can you state the law of one and the laws of healing to me?
ra: i am ra. the law of one, though beyond the limitations of name, as you call vibratory sound complexes, may be approximated by stating that all things are one, that there is no polarity, no right or wrong, no disharmony, but only identity. all is one, and that one is love/light, light/love, the infinite creator.

one of the primal distortions of the law of one is that of healing. healing occurs when a mind/body/spirit complex realizes, deep within itself, the law of one; that is, that there is no disharmony, no imperfection; that all is complete and whole and perfect. thus, the intelligent infinity within this mind/body/spirit complex re-forms the illusion of body, mind, or spirit to a form congruent with the law of one. the healer acts as energizer or catalyst for this completely individual process.

one item which may be of interest is that a healer asking to learn must take the distortion understood as responsibility for that ask/receiving, thus healing. this is a honor/duty which must be carefully considered in free will before the asking.

so, ra is being contradictory here – there is polarity and there is no polarity. which one is it?

in the first question, the questioner is asking a question based on galaxy formation, and galaxies are distortions of the law of one in that they are portions which seem to have separate status from other things in the universe. therefore the ra are enabled by the questioner to speak in our distorted terms of polarity, which is a dualistic concept.

polarization seems to be an aspect of basic existence, and there seems nothing in the universe which is not polarically charged, speaking from the dualistic viewpoint, of course! we see this weave running all the way through the known cosmos, so it’s not surprising that polarity is a major recurring theme in the ra material.

in the second question, don flat out asks the ra to state the law of one. now the context of the answer shifts to reflect the intent of the question – there is no polarity, or any other distinction of any sort, for that matter, seeing as all the things like galaxies and polarity which sprang from the one have their ultimate reality in one infinite intelligence in which there is nothing less than infinite potential but yet with no movement, distinction or experience.

as this plenum of one is that from which all springs, understanding something of our connection to it may be of deep importance to our overall road of becoming. mark

Tenet Nosce

07-02-2011, 08:46 AM

despite the length i really enjoyed all of your post which started with 'lol...' then got summed up in that beautiful nutshell but this one here of yours, that i've quoted, just kept getting more and more obnoxious...

thanks! i'm curious to know if there was some discussion or a counterpoint you would like to offer on the second post? or did you just want to point out that you found the tone to be obnoxious?

does this ra quote make any sense to you?

"in your illusion of physical existence all experience springs from the law of free will or the way of confusion...intelligent infinity discerned a concept; namely, freedom of will of awareness."

yes, it makes perfect sense to me.

Tenet Nosce

07-02-2011, 09:13 AM

EcyaC

07-03-2011, 07:42 AM

thanks!

you're welcome. =)

obviously, i intended just to bring it to your attention and to warn others i found it to be obnoxious, in order to persuade some from reading, but now i feel bad for doing so and after reading it again i see there were a few lines i found discussion worthy which didn't make me think, "everything just may occur as it is written!" or "ugh!"...

so...

now i think it was/is worth the read, despite the length!

"...the moment you start to lift your own vibration, the vibrations of those around you begin to lift also...raise your own vibration. in the end, that's all you can do, and it is more than enough."

just remember the moment you start to lift the vibrations of those around you, your own vibrations start to lift, and this could actually be the best way...

"raise your own vibration. in the end, that's all you can do...that is the highest form of service, and i would challenge anybody to come up with something greater."

i like how you say, "in the end, that's all you can do..." because it makes me think about how in the end -- when we're really old -- it is pretty much all we're left capable of doing...and in the beginning, when we're babies, it's definitely pretty much all we can do.

in my opinion, in this illusion, the apparent service to the one can seem to be accidental and intentional...it seems to become intentional, in the middle, but is constantly accidental.

also, apparently, one can serve through one's own vehicle or another's -- which seems like the higher form to you, again? i believe i chose all of my forms of serving before showing up for the job, if you know what i mean...

i'm here to raise others vibrations without really considering how much, or little, it may do for me...

as you can see, i like to think the 2nd distortion in the loo -- love -- allows me to challenge your view that raising your own vibration is the highest form of service. although,...

i agree, in the end, one can only ever serve the one and only self, but,...

needless to say, it appears to be neither the end nor the beginning and i think the higher form of service is to use the distortion of the apparent other, in order to better serve the one apparent self, which is something one can really only ever do, given they are "gifted" to be able to.

AndrewCalder

07-04-2011, 10:40 AM

service to others: it is stated across the board that an act of service is an act that does not expect returns!

an act of service that expects returns ain't it!

an above poster states that we cannot achieve anything other than acts based on a calculation of return.

much like how you cannot explain a sensory perception to ones who lack it, there are some things that just cannot be dealt with in a forum discussion.

but one can try with hypotheticals.

consider group-self. a self that is divided between a group of vessels. let it be for arguments sake, that the self needs but one vessel to survive. does the self let the other vessels fall into disrepair? no.

[edit: law of free-will states that a service offered can be seen as a disservice, which does complicate things greatly, so lets not go there. we take care of each other in this hypothetical, neurosis-free]

where is the service directed? its the higher-self, treating itself. the consequence on the lower-level becomes something totally different, doesn't it. the individual-selves within the other vessels -which might have been left in the rain on a cold night- now relay gratitude.

consider now there are two different kinds of return the self would feel here. the sense that it has made its own bed on the higher level, and the gratitude involved with one taking care of another on the lower level. both are joyful experiences; both should be seen as beauty!

indeed the lower-level gratitude is consequence for doing what the higher-self knows is right. and indeed it is joyful. but that wasn't what higher-self was truly concerned with at the beginning.

it is in hindsight that things change. humans look at a given outcome and tell ourselves and at times others, "this is what i wanted to happen".

this could very well be true but it is possible that the words are coming from the higher-self, and the individual mind is bound to lower-level existence in search of the reason why.

DFS

07-04-2011, 04:12 PM

in 1.6 ra states:
"that which is infinite cannot be many, for many-ness is a finite concept. to have infinity you must identify or define that infinity as unity; otherwise, the term does not have any referent or meaning. in an infinite creator there is only unity."

yet in 13.12, ra says:
"the intelligent infinity discerned a concept. this concept was discerned to be freedom of will of awareness. this concept was finity. this was the first and primal paradox or distortion of the law of one. thus the one intelligent infinity invested itself in an exploration of many-ness. due to the infinite possibilities of intelligent infinity there is no ending to many-ness. the exploration, thus, is free to continue infinitely in an eternal present."

at first glance, this seems to contradict ra's statement, "that which is infinite cannot be many." in fact, this second statement explains how, despite the unity of infinity, finity and the separation of manyness came to exist. intelligent infinity had a thought, or as ra puts it, "discerned a concept."

and in 1.0, ra concludes:
"the confederation of planets in the service of the infinite creator has only one important statement. that statement, my friends, as you know, is “all things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.”"

this universe, galaxy, solar system and the sub-sub logos known as a "person" exist because of and within that original thought, a thought that created separation and the finite limits of manyness. and because finity has limits, duality and polarity are a given.

beginning-end, first-last, before-after, up-down, positive-negative -- all express the limits we utilize to contrast and compare in order to shape an understanding of this 3d illusion. duality is a given so basic to our finite being that we end up defining that which we cannot objectively experience in terms of that which we can experience.thus, we define infinity as not-finity, unlimited as not-limited and indestructible as not-destructible. it's not surprising that confusion results when we use the finite to attempt to truly grasp infinity and unity.

yet, as tenet nosce notes, it is important to attempt to understand and internalize unity. in 1.6, ra says:
"in truth there is no right or wrong. there is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. this distortion is not in any case necessary. it is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. you are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. you are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. you are unity. you are infinity. you are love/light, light/love. you are. this is the law of one."

consider if you will that when ra employs "you," it is you as the creator, which exists as infinity and unity. in infinity/unity there are no limits and no dualities. there is only unity and ra is unambiguous in asserting that "you are everything, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation." every scenario, every catalyst, every part and particle of this 3d illusion is the creator, is self confronting self.

despite this unity, we have entered into finity, into this 3d illusion in order to choose how we will co-create our small part of the original thought, and the two options made available by the logos are sts and sto. both are the creator, but it is necessary that we choose one and exclude the other in order to move forward and fully express our small part of the original thought.

choosing is inevitable, and it is the focused intent that one applies to one's choices that will determine both the path and how effectively one follows it.

dfs

Tenet Nosce

07-04-2011, 05:51 PM

just remember the moment you start to lift the vibrations of those around you, your own vibrations start to lift, and this could actually be the best way...

this is great because it encapsulates a point of view that does not at all seem native/normal to me. however, as you, in the end i have to agree that it can be equally valid! framed that way, i would say it is an equally high form of service. i should point out by higher i didn't mean to intend better than. more encompassing, maybe? i'm not sure if there is a word that distinguishes well here, but i will assume you know what i mean.

great paradox!

as andewcalder pointed out

[edit: law of free-will states that a service offered can be seen as a disservice, which does complicate things greatly, so lets not go there. we take care of each other in this hypothetical, neurosis-free]

i think this is definitely where confusion comes in- because let's face it there are a lot of neurotic people out there. so i am going to go there. (sorry, ac, but it's a good point ;)) for example, my sister-in-law struggles a lot with her weight. her mother and two younger sisters have even bigger issues. her mom recently had surgery in an attempt to treat her severe obesity.

this is how the family dynamic works: mom shows her love for her family through food. there's a lotta love, therefore there's a lotta food! all the time. food is constantly around, and way more of it than anybody needs to eat.

but the family eats the food because they love their mom and they know that's "her way" of showing her love. what is the result? well, in the end it is obesity and health problems.

so here is an example of somebody who is, in her mind, doing her family a service whereas in my mind (which is medically trained) she is doing her family a disservice by impairing their health.

so that's where a lot of the "perception of service" comes in. especially so in dysfunctional family scenarios. what one person perceives as service, another person perceives as a disservice. who's version wins? the giver or the receiver? the elder? the father, because he is the father?

i would offer that each attends to their own soul first. for in that they will find that it is no longer as important to make sure everybody else is doing this or that thing that they "should" be doing.

EcyaC

07-04-2011, 10:54 PM

this is great because it encapsulates a point of view that does not at all seem native/normal to me. however, as you, in the end i have to agree that it can be equally valid! framed that way, i would say it is an equally high form of service. i should point out by higher i didn't mean to intend better than. more encompassing, maybe? i'm not sure if there is a word that distinguishes well here, but i will assume you know what i mean.

great paradox!

as andewcalder pointed out

i think this is definitely where confusion comes in- because let's face it there are a lot of neurotic people out there. so i am going to go there. (sorry, ac, but it's a good point ;)) for example, my sister-in-law struggles a lot with her weight. her mother and two younger sisters have even bigger issues. her mom recently had surgery in an attempt to treat her severe obesity.

this is how the family dynamic works: mom shows her love for her family through food. there's a lotta love, therefore there's a lotta food! all the time. food is constantly around, and way more of it than anybody needs to eat.

but the family eats the food because they love their mom and they know that's "her way" of showing her love. what is the result? well, in the end it is obesity and health problems.

so here is an example of somebody who is, in her mind, doing her family a service whereas in my mind (which is medically trained) she is doing her family a disservice by impairing their health.

so that's where a lot of the "perception of service" comes in. especially so in dysfunctional family scenarios. what one person perceives as service, another person perceives as a disservice. who's version wins? the giver or the receiver? the elder? the father, because he is the father?

i would offer that each attends to their own soul first. for in that they will find that it is no longer as important to make sure everybody else is doing this or that thing that they "should" be doing.

"you can tell ra to take their morality stuff and shove it- they won't mind...

if that were me, i might feel like telling ra to shove it and putting a bullet in my brain..."

lol...you're really sure they won't mind being told to shove any of it, aren't you? wish i could say the same!

i know the moment when i begin to, inherently, accidentally lift the vibrations of apparent others with good intention in mind, too, and without "fully" considering [most of the time] how my own, apparently intentional, actions could've been planned all along, and without considering -- any more than i naturally will -- how little, or much, my service may please my apparent self, then my own vibrations seem to be "lifted" best, easier, and/or just plain higher by exploiting this way, rather than any other way...therefore, i can't help but sharing i think this is genuinely distinguishable as the the better, and more encompassing, way. i think this mostly because of what i consider to be my personally selected/required personal experience...

i just don't see myself becoming an observer, or creator, if i wasn't first granted the free will to know, and to choose, ahead of "time" all i am capable of observing/creating or bringing to my awareness and in what order...accordingly, i think i am the bringer of both order and disorder...did order come before disorder, did i come before them both, or is all, essentially, the alpha and the omega in order to be and not be?

just because the law of free will states that "...a service offered can be seen as a disservice..." does not mean a service offered can actually, entirely, be a disservice. who cares if someone is choosing to see a service as a disservice? i do, but not for long, until i remember they may be meant to do whatever they may do.

while i think one can only ever serve the one self 100%...i also think one can ever only serve 100% period. to seem to serve, to seem to better serve, or to seem to not serve? that is my only real question for you...notwithstanding, there are actually five here...:)

Tenet Nosce

07-05-2011, 01:03 PM

lol...you're really sure they won't mind being told to shove any of it, aren't you? wish i could say the same!

i am quite positive! besides, what would ra do if they did mind? chuck fire and brimstone at me from the sky? ;)

i tend to come at the loo with a sort of daoist bent characterized by conscious irreverence and a strict personal doctrine of wuwei, or noninterference. unless explicitly asked for assistance, i am going to assume that each individual is perfectly capable of attending to their own joy in life. the last thing they need is me projecting my own distortions onto them. but that is just my bias.

just because the law of free will states that "...a service offered can be seen as a disservice..." does not mean a service offered can actually, entirely, be a disservice. who cares if someone is choosing to see a service as a disservice? i do, but not for long, until i remember they may be meant to do whatever they may do.

based on that, it kind of sounds like you are saying that the other is irrelevant in the equation. you serve because of how it makes you feel. am i characterizing that correctly?

to seem to serve, to seem to better serve, or to seem to not serve? that is my only real question for you...notwithstanding, there are actually five here...:)

well, besides my own personality biases pointed out above, i would say better to seem to not serve than to foolishly/naively think one is serving when it is actually a disservice.

i get your viewpoint. although i would point out that the entire ra communication is predicated on this:

we are not those of the love or of the light. we are those who are of the law of one. in our vibration the polarities are harmonized, the complexities are simplified, and the paradoxes have their solution. we are one. that is our nature and our purpose.

we are old upon your planet and have served with varying degrees of success in transmitting the law of one, of unity, of singleness to your peoples. we have walked your earth. we have seen the faces of your peoples. this is not so with many of the entities of the confederation. we found it was not efficaceous. however, we then felt the great responsibility of staying in the capacity of removing the distortions and powers that had been given to the law of one. we will continue in this until your, shall we say, cycle is appropriately ended. if not this one, then the next. we are not a part of time and, thus, are able to be with you in any of your times.

i this to mean that ra's intervention in human history is a prime example of having taken action based on a view of service that was overly distorted to love and not tempered with an equal measure of wisdom. so in my opinion, i am going to take a cue from ra's "mistake" and apply that hard-earned wisdom to actions that i contemplate taking in my own life as it relates to serving others.

EcyaC

07-05-2011, 05:23 PM

i am quite positive! besides, what would ra do if they did mind? chuck fire and brimstone at me from the sky? ;)...

i don't know...but some things i'd do, if i were ra -- and actually minded -- of course, come to mind...what you've mentioned here about chucking fire and brimstone from the sky is a nice idea, too, though...are you sure you're only "quite positive" and not extremely positive? ;)

"unless explicitly asked for assistance, i am going to assume that each individual is perfectly capable of attending to their own joy in life."

i'm assuming you know when to say no if "explicitly asked for assistance"...and i'm assuming you know there are times when you apparently just can't say no and when you apparently just can't assume/conclude a certain individual is "perfectly capable of attending to their own joy in life"...for example, the fattest relative of yours could, clearly, need your help getting up from the floor, when you happen to be the only one there, but she's not be able to "explicitly ask" you because she's embarrassed to or something like that...so, i think that's a great/optimistic assumption you've made there and like it.

"based on that, it kind of sounds like you are saying that the other is irrelevant in the equation."

good thing it only "kind of sounds like" that or i'd have something to discuss with you here.

"you serve because of how it makes you feel. am i characterizing that correctly?"

like one can always serve strictly because of how it makes them feel, only, without considering other's feelings...to me, that's quite laughable.

"well, besides my own personality biases pointed out above, i would say better to seem to not serve than to foolishly/naively think one is serving when it is actually a disservice."

my answer is very similar to yours -- if not the same...

i would say better for me, personally, to seem to not serve considering i think one can only, always, serve...so from my view, it is foolish/naive to think one can actually perform a disservice, even though, apparently they can, likely, since everything may occur only as it's meant to.

AndrewCalder

07-06-2011, 02:38 AM

a good example of service going horribly wrong is a nagging parent.

one got shot with an arrow this year for taking away his tween daughters cell-phone and grounding her.

something that starts out as service can wreck someone's life, sadly.

when -years ago- someone asked ra in a reading what to do about their friends drug problem, ra responded something along the lines of, "that is the life he chose, and moving him from that state forcibly would be against free-will."

it is given to us quite simply, and i will verify using tenet nosce's overweight relative. if she is on the ground, it seems its meant to be. that you consider picking her up is the beauty of the situation, though. perhaps she will not be grateful! that doesn't mean you now have to become a psychologist, and perform perfectly in a battle of wills. decide what your input will be for the moment and let it be, for soon it will be the past.

but what if she asks for help!? great! your work is cut out for you, now just a matter of reaching down and- but wait a minute, she is making this reeeeally difficult. okay, game over. all of a sudden you are doing a disservice to yourself by wasting your own time and hers, holding her half-way up off the ground (not to mention hurting your lower back). there is now a concern about service-to-self. you could very well die trying to lift this overweight relative, or trying to take a tween's cell-phone!

ra states the reason we are tasked with eating food at all, is that just in case we think we can achieve 100% service-to-others for an extended period of time, there exists a natural boundary disallowing that absolute. this is an example of the "its-my-life" scale, and i call it a scale because most likely the minimum requirement of sts varies across selves and situations. our tween from the start did get not her dose, was starved of free-will.

all this gives us a nice view of how to gauge interactivity, but the consequences of our decisions are truly unknowable at these stages.

we can, however, choose to fill the gap with a measure of faith, skewing our decisions somewhere along the scale of helping all people everywhere with everything we can, but like a bomb-defuser who cuts every green-wire, we will not be 100% successful in that endeavor, and eventually some bomb will blow up in a face perceived as overbearing, or obnoxious, or even gullible (sadly). now there is an arrow in our chest. perhaps we could have been more discerning of the situation.

also consider that a pure act of kindness or service may well be trumped fully in usefulness by a well-thought out, strategic act of kindness or service. with but one moment to work with, precision is surely of great importance in decision-making.

-

in my view, we are not wanted to consume our self with these acts in order to break the record for fastest godlike, we are meant to service our vessels only when reasonable.

if relaxing peace can take center stage, service can become yet another simple spice of life, surprising us with its beauty rather than boring us.

Tenet Nosce

07-06-2011, 08:48 AM

i don't know...but some things i'd do, if i were ra -- and actually minded -- of course, come to mind...what you've mentioned here about chucking fire and brimstone from the sky is a nice idea, too, though...are you sure you're only "quite positive" and not extremely positive? ;)

lol. yes, i am 100% positive. i'm not sure if you are just joking or if you really think ra is the bearded man in the sky casting thunderbolts down on nonbelievers. so what would you do if you were ra? i'm dying to know!

i think for the most part we are arriving at similar conclusions from different angles. i suppose i get overly concerned about folks who are new to the material and interpret it to mean that they have to become some kind of saint in order to make the grade. so i feel compelled to point out that "service to others" doesn't necessarily mean capitulating to everybody's whims and desires. even more so when there is an abusive or dysfunctional relationship dynamic involved.

i just draw a really hard line when i hear "if you really loved me, you would __________." or "i am only [insert hurtful action here] because i love you." mmmmhhhmmm. yea so how about i offer you a good look at my bum? how's that for service? :d

EcyaC

07-06-2011, 05:27 PM

"i am quite positive! besides, what would ra do if they did mind? chuck fire and brimstone at me from the sky?...so what would you do if you were ra? i'm dying to know!"

it was just amusing, to me at least, how you claimed yourself to be "quite positive" they wouldn't mind then proceeded to ask what they "would" do "...if they did mind..." as if i would/could/should know and then how you let us all know what you might imagine them doing...anyway, i've pmed you just what all i think i would, could and should do, if i were ra, since you're so "dying to know!" :)

"i think for the most part we are arriving at similar conclusions from different angles. i suppose i get overly concerned about folks who are new to the material and interpret it to mean that they have to become some kind of saint in order to make the grade. so i feel compelled to point out that "service to others" doesn't necessarily mean capitulating to everybody's whims and desires. even more so when there is an abusive or dysfunctional relationship dynamic involved."

i doubt you get "overly concerned" about them becoming "some kind of saint" haha but i agree with you on this and am thankful you're compelled to point out such good points to others...

"i just draw a really hard line when i hear "if you really loved me, you would __________." or "i am only [insert hurtful action here] because i love you." mmmmhhhmmm. yea so how about i offer you a good look at my bum? how's that for service? "

...if you really loved me, you would continue breathing...and i am only able to do anything to you/anyone because i love (you)...and, mmmhm, i'd love it if you'd offer me a good look at your bum but i'm not promising i will be able to take you up on that...:d

scottki

07-07-2011, 09:56 PM

so i feel compelled to point out that "service to others" doesn't necessarily mean capitulating to everybody's whims and desires

personally i agree, but doesn't 'and the meek shall inherit the earth', ie after harvest, not mean exactly that? was francise of assisi not like that?

DFS

07-08-2011, 10:00 AM

i offer some thoughts to consider regarding some aspects of this thread.
52.7
"...acceptance of self, forgiveness of self, and the direction of the will; this is the path towards the disciplined personality. your faculty of will is that which is powerful within you as co-creator. you cannot ascribe to this faculty too much importance. thus it must be carefully used and directed in service-to-others for those upon the positively oriented path. there is great danger in the use of the will as the personality becomes stronger, for it may be used even subconsciously in ways reducing the polarity of the entity."

thus, once one is consciously aware of this 3d illusion as a classroom or process for mastery of self, then it becomes necessary to choose a focus or path and to take conscious responsibility for one's choices. as a conscious co-creator, what one thinks and feels, including one's subconscious biases, attitudes, beliefs, prejudices and/or judgements do
have the power to impact other selves in a way that may limit choices.

54.17
"the more advanced the entity, the more tenuous the connection between the sub-logos and the perceived catalyst until, finally, all catalyst is chosen, generated, and manufactured by the self, for the self."

the more we advance and develop our understanding and conscious intent to pursue a focused path, the more responsible we become for all our choices, including those we relegate to the subconscious. thus, it is indeed appropriate to consider what constitutes a service to another. the impulse to attempt to somehow ease or remove another's difficult challenge/catalyst may spring from love, but to do so may violate a free choice made by that other's self and/or higher self.

as for consideration of various scenarios and situations, it can assist one to evaluate options, but it also may distort one's focus.
82.25
" i am ra. no portion of the creator audits the course, to use your experiential terms. each incarnation is intended to be a course in the creator knowing itself. a review or, shall we say, to continue the metaphor, each test is an integral portion of the process of the creator knowing itself. each incarnation will end with such a test.

this is so that the portion of the creator may assimilate the experiences in yellow, physical, third density, may evaluate the biases gained, and may then choose, either by means of automatically provided aid or by the self, the conditions of the next incarnation."
83.7
" i am ra. it is true that the nature of time/space is such that a lifetime may be seen whole as a book or record, the pages studied, riffled through, and re-read.

however, the value of review is that of the testing as opposed to the studying. at the testing, when the test is true, the distillations of all study are made clear.

during the process of study, which you may call the incarnation, regardless of an entity’s awareness of the process taking place, the material is diffused and over-attention is almost inevitably placed upon detail.

the testing upon the cessation of the incarnative state is not that testing which involves the correct memorization of many details. this testing is, rather, the observing of self by self, often with aid as we have said. in this observation one sees the sum of all the detailed study; that being an attitude or complex of attitudes which bias the consciousness of the mind/body/spirit."

consider if you will that at this time on this planet, hundreds of millions, perhaps even billions of individuals are dealing with the catalyst of survival. whether in africa, asia, india or the americas, the focus of those individuals is how to simply stay alive. the details may vary for each persona, yet, each individual must choose what attitudes and focus he/she will employ to mold his/her choices. will they focus on self and view others as resources and obstacles, or will they seek to assist and support others, including perhaps putting the welfare of others ahead of their own?

one can easily envision the details of these struggles, playing out the options and dramas. however, what matters for the soul's development are not the details but the biases and attitudes being cultivated by that individual's choices. those attitudes and biases will eventually become so focused as to elevate one's awareness to a conscious choice of either the sts or sto path, and one may take as many incarnations as required to arrive at that path.

this is an interesting thread, and as always, feel free to consider or ignore any or all of my thoughts. <smile>

dfs

Burton

07-08-2011, 11:03 AM

personally i agree, but doesn't 'and the meek shall inherit the earth', ie after harvest, not mean exactly that? was francise of assisi not like that?

one on the strongest ways to increase your positive polarity is to 'know thy self'. and along that path of discovery you need to become yourself more and more. and that means standing up for what you believe on occasion and not allowing people to control you. and also it means to offer your sincere opinion when questioned. you certain do not have to allow yourself to be walked on to be considered meek. passively standing up for yourself is key, you must take responsibility for how people treat you, its the mirroring effect ra spoke of.

if someone truly tries to control you, you can always just remove yourself from the situation, and thank them for their attempt at service.

all is well.

Jeia Ra Manuk

07-19-2011, 11:29 AM

one thing caught my eye in the law of one material and that was requiring 51% service to others or 99% service to self in order to change densities. i don't understand this paradigm at all; service to self is natural, and it is precisely because of this self-interest that we decide to work and live together. it can go too far of course, but then it stops being true, strategic self-interest--it merely becomes shortsightedness. if this is some sort of "test" we're going through, i'd propose that it's one of maturity and intelligence, not necissarily service to others.

also, "benevolent" forces wouldn't leave highly advanced and intelligent "negative" forces here if they truly believed in service to others. it's akin to locking a child in a room with a dangerous animal and cheering them on through a closed door.

ra: it should be noted, and carefully pondered, and accepted, that the law of one is available to any social memory complex striving together for any goal, be it service to others or service to self.

the laws are placed into operation and the illusion of space/time is used as a medium for the development of the results of the choices freely made. thus all entities learn, no mater what they seek. (b1, 100)

just thought to trow this in =]
love and light and love,
et

Tenet Nosce

07-19-2011, 03:51 PM

ra seems to have offered some clarity here:

this study is as difficult as the one which we have described to you, but there are those with the perseverance to pursue the study just as you desire to pursue the difficult path of seeking to know in order to serve. the distortion lies in the effect that those who seek to serve the self are seen by the law of one as precisely the same as those who seek to serve others, for are all not one? to serve yourself and to serve others is a dual method of saying the same thing, if you can understand the essence of the law of one.

Jeia Ra Manuk

07-19-2011, 08:11 PM

o my,
i was going to put that in as well in my post but didn't!

thanks tenet!

really, who cares which way to go because negative polarized beings end up positively charged after 5th density or early 6th density, where the 6th density needs to be a blend of love and wisdom. they have wisdom but because they literally skip one step (the 4th density as seen by the positives) they abandon love and try pursue wisdom alone.

it is up to who takes what out of the lessons provided!

ra: these negatively oriented mind/body/spirit complexes have a difficulty which to our knowledge has never been overcome, for after 5th density graduation wisdom is available but it must be matched with an equal amount of love. this is difficult to do for negatively oriented entities so they will choose to release the negativity and leap into 6th density positive. (b2, 66)

so if they can't get there then this makes sense, for it is in the 6th density where we achive the higher selves:

ra: there are no negative beings that have obtained the higher self manifestation. (b2, 66)

essentially, we all have higher selves because we all end up in positively charged 6th density!

love and light and love,
et

Tenet Nosce

07-20-2011, 02:56 PM

personally i agree, but doesn't 'and the meek shall inherit the earth', ie after harvest, not mean exactly that? was francise of assisi not like that?

interesting you referred to st. francis, as it was his famous prayer that l/l research recited before the ra sessions. st. francis is an enigmatic figure... known for his kindness to both humans and animals. however, we also have him to thank for passing down an apocalyptic last days prophecy. actually this was just featured in the lead article 25 july edition of the sun- not that i usually read those but i "just so happened" to see it at the store, not too long after adding to a discussion about whether the use of the prayer of st. francis and the bible before the ra contact may have contributed toward a certain propensity in others to view a hidden apocalyptic message therein.

Tenet Nosce

07-20-2011, 02:57 PM

really, who cares which way to go because negative polarized beings end up positively charged after 5th density or early 6th density, where the 6th density needs to be a blend of love and wisdom. they have wisdom but because they literally skip one step (the 4th density as seen by the positives) they abandon love and try pursue wisdom alone.

sometimes i wonder if i am a 6d reject, come back to 3d to recapitulate some lessons that i skipped over the first time around...

Jeia Ra Manuk

07-20-2011, 04:08 PM

sometimes i wonder if i am a 6d reject, come back to 3d to recapitulate some lessons that i skipped over the first time around...

i think that is the way we all have to think about this situation! we are all here learning lessons! i think this is a meeting and conflict resolving time for all of us here. that's what we should be busy with. there is no actual scale on our foreheads that tell us what percentage we are. we are all rejects and not rejects at the same moment.

love each other and lend a hand without expecting anything in return.
because we all have 6th density higher selves we will all end up on higher frequencies. it is different for everybody but know that your higher self will lend a hand if you ask. if you chose to ask they will provide a smoother way.

over there on the other side there is no time as we perceive it. this is how we are able to both be a part of a 6th density society and a part of a 3rd density society. i presume!

love and light and love,
et

Tenet Nosce

07-25-2011, 10:53 AM

scottki

07-26-2011, 03:16 AM

update: some new information has caused me to reevaluate my concept of sto/sts. it was incorrect of me to assume that i am sto, and now i wonder if anybody with a physical body here in 3d can be sto. perhaps we simply have the potential to be "sto candidates". please disregard anything i may have previously stated as if it was truth. it was only my limited understanding.

do not be too hard on yourself. the difference between you and most people is probably that you think about your actions and what is their polarity. as you say, it is difficult to be completely sto here. that is why 51% is deemed good enough. the deal i have made with myself is that, i can think anything (although unfortunately thoughts are things and maybe create the world we live in) but it is my actions that count. i do not need to pretend that i am constantly full of love, or indeed that i want to be of service all the time (which of course i do not be of service all of the time, nowhere near) but if i choose to let an other self have their way over my way, then that is service to others. we can debate about whether this is the right thing to do, that is, would it be a a greater service to the creator by being selfish more often and not feeling guilty about it. but that is what i have chosen for now, to try to have sto in my actions.

scottki

07-26-2011, 03:28 AM

i think this is a meeting and conflict resolving time for all of us here. that's what we should be busy with.

very synchronistic for me jeia as just this morning i came to the conclusion that i am semi addicted to conflict but it is very destructive for me, always has been. i have absolutely no stomach for it whatsoever! of course people like mike tyson are actually very sensitive and shy. you see i was about to go on about the virtues of someone like tyson!

EcyaC

07-26-2011, 08:58 AM

update: some new information has caused me to reevaluate my concept of sto/sts. it was incorrect of me to assume that i am sto, and now i wonder if anybody with a physical body here in 3d can be sto. perhaps we simply have the potential to be "sto candidates". please disregard anything i may have previously stated as if it was truth. it was only my limited understanding.

grreat...so, what's your new concept? i'm sure all of us are just dying to know this info.

i still say to apparently be is to apparently stos... or serve the one self, 100%...nuff said... ;)

but seeing separation can be beautiful, though... it's what this illusion is mainly for, right? so let's say you've taken it upon yourself to be in charge of what your family eats for dinner every other night...do you serve them something you want and consider whether or not they might like it or do just prepare something you like? do you consider their weight and sacrifice some things you might like so as not to tempt them? yeah...here, it seems, one can definitely appear to tend to serve the self more than apparent other. if you don't mind me saying, if i were to buy into this illusion i'd probably think you're about 69% sts...

Tenet Nosce

07-26-2011, 02:24 PM

due to the divine cosmos "rules of engagement" i am prohibited from posting materials from other channeled sources besides ra. the relevant keyword is "sto candidate".

what i think this idea is getting at is that having a physical body puts one in a default sts mode. this is not to say that it is impossible to genuinely serve others within 3d, only that at the most fundamental level of being physical in 3d, there is an sts element that cannot be avoided or circumvented.

the most notorious example being that physical beings must eat food, thus cutting short the life of another physical being in order to continue its own. as the human body cannot survive on carrion or rotted plant material, we are forced into the somewhat uncomfortable position of killing another living creature (even if it is algae) in order to survive.

the idea put forth which i think is very intriguing is that 4d, though having an element of physicality, does not require one to eat food in the way that we normally think about it. if one is desirous of food, they may simply manifest it out of the "ethers".

so perhaps upon our arrival in 4d we will find that this deep inner conflict over eating our animal and plant friends becomes a moot point. perhaps we will find that this, and other issues that humans tend to get all worked up in a tizzy about, simply resolve themselves effortlessly, and we will find that much of our conflict and chagrin was for naught.

we are not human beings having a spiritual experience. we are spiritual beings having a human experience.

the human experience contains certain elements that are unavoidably sts. eating, sex, marriage, ownership, money, the family unit (taking care of "one's own") are all examples of things that can never really be fully sto, given the parameters of the human experience.

interestingly, the only ones who seem to be deeply conflicted about this are those "wanderers" who somewhere deep down know, that all of this is neither necessary, nor desirable. yet we find ourselves here in 3d, and must play by the rules.

DFS

07-26-2011, 04:02 PM

at the risk of repeating myself, i will suggest that it is not the details framing our lives that matter. sts and sto are not to be found in the details but in our biases and attitudes, which in turn, are reflected in our choices. yet, each choice, whether made with conscious intent or out of habit or as a reflexive expression of beliefs, judgements, expectations or prejudices, either reinforces or neutralizes our biases and attitudes.

and when the incarnation is ended and we, as the soul or essential self, review that incarnation, it is, as ra states, not about the details of that incarnation.

83.7
" i am ra. it is true that the nature of time/space is such that a lifetime may be seen whole as a book or record, the pages studied, riffled through, and re-read.

however, the value of review is that of the testing as opposed to the studying. at the testing, when the test is true, the distillations of all study are made clear.

during the process of study, which you may call the incarnation, regardless of an entity’s awareness of the process taking place, the material is diffused and over-attention is almost inevitably placed upon detail.

the testing upon the cessation of the incarnative state is not that testing which involves the correct memorization of many details. this testing is, rather, the observing of self by self, often with aid as we have said. in this observation one sees the sum of all the detailed study; that being an attitude or complex of attitudes which bias the consciousness of the mind/body/spirit."

i would suggest that observation of one's present persona, of this present self, represents a valuable tool for taking greater responsibility for one's choices. it's difficult to change that of which one is unaware. however, there is a potential for evaluating and judging rather than accepting, forgiving and letting go. ideally for the sto path, self observation should not be expressed as self criticism because self criticism reflects judgment rather than acceptance and forgiveness.

ultimately, sts and sto represent polar extremes of biases and attitudes. sts is focused on separation, individuation and control. sto focuses on unity, forgiveness and acceptance. regardless of the details framing a situation, it is the intent driving one's responses and choices that truly expresses path and/or polarity. thus, i would suggest that one may best clarify one's path and/or polarity by focusing on intent.

is the intent to separate, develop , or manage and control self and other self? or is the intent to unify, forgive or accept self and other self? with intent clearly in mind, one may then consider details as a guide for discerning whether one's choices and actions reflect that intent. ideally, one observes self in order to focus on living one's intentions.

in a sense, evaluating and judging focuses one on what one wants rather than on what one intends. it focuses on details.

intent fuels free will, so please feel free to make of my observations whatever feels correct for you. <smile>

dfs

Jeia Ra Manuk

07-26-2011, 06:12 PM

very synchronistic for me jeia as just this morning i came to the conclusion that i am semi addicted to conflict but it is very destructive for me, always has been. i have absolutely no stomach for it whatsoever! of course people like mike tyson are actually very sensitive and shy. you see i was about to go on about the virtues of someone like tyson!

in which way is it destructive for you? as in you can't resolve the conflict? are you actually very sensitive and shy although semi-addicted to conflict? :)

love,
et

MarkM

07-27-2011, 04:41 PM

at the risk of repeating myself, i will suggest that it is not the details framing our lives that matter. sts and sto are not to be found in the details but in our biases and attitudes, which in turn, are reflected in our choices.

a great meditative muse, imo!

sto/sts... we often find ourselves wondering about our individual actions, saying, "was i service to others, here? was i more service to self there? how can i be more service to others? what can i do to be more sto?"

one may consider an organized sports game, such as a hockey game. a hockey team consists of individuals who are attempting to serve as a unified whole, and a successful team is that in which the constituent members each has the benefit of the team in mind, and know that their individual actions are best devoted to the success of the team at large.

while this example is lacking somewhat due to the fact that there is an opposing team whose best hockey interests are not part of the equation here, we will consider a driver in traffic.

in contrast to one who thinks nothing of barring no holds in the getting ahead of the pack during the rush home from work, consider one who is courteous as a matter of character, and in the case of a traffic back-up, will pause at driveways and sidestreets - leaving a gap for any other opposing left turning motorists who may benefit thusly.

or the driver who automatically leaves a gap, while first in line at a red light, for those coming up behind wishing to make a right hand turn.

while we may think of these actions hypothetically as coming from a loo student who is trying to get his or her 49% up to 51, some folks are naturally so inclined by nature of their intrinsic character, knowing/intuiting consciously or otherwise that they are benefitting all otherselves... as well as themselves... in the overall picture of optimal traffic flow.

here, this may be a total non-brainer for some, with distinction between other drivers and self being not an issue consciously considered. what benefits all benefits all, including self.

when we consider the sto path, we are - as my friend dfs points out - talking about that which has become our innate nature, as in how we have built into our character that which is the result of many lifetimes of progress in third density... simply meaning that we have matured through trial and error to the point of sto/sts.

as the ra don't distinguish in a primary sense a difference between teaching and learning, in the sense of all other selves being one, (teach/learn.. learn/teach) i tend to consider that the path of love and respect for all others as self doesn't distinguish a difference which is viewed as gulf between service to others vs. service to self. to benefit the all is to benefit one's self automatically.

the ra do seem to make this suggestion even as they are addressing us in our state of sense of separation. matters of 51% and 95% are only given to us so we may make some initial sense of that which is at its heart indistinguishable as there is only one of us here in the greater reality.

to me, the 51% thing only suggests coming to act as the seasoned hockey player or the naturally courteous driver. benefit to the all redounding naturally as benefit to the self, with no thought of distinction.

speaking of the opposing polarity, 95% seems to represent a totally inverse/equal view on life, wherein one looks at self as the only true self, with the activities of all other lifeforms being subservient to self. one's take on the glory of the creator is such that there is absolutely no limit as to how other lifeforms may be used to aggrandize the self, and the best benefit to any other lifeform is to acquiese to the most trivial desires of the self.

service to self here is service to all.

95% is given as a figure which suggests almost total perfection on the power road to bending the world to these ends. the glorification of the self with the complicity of all who are within one's sphere of influence thus equals glorification of the all. glory to others is a function of handily serving the negatively polarizing one despite abridgement of free will.

here, both roads end up with - upon polarization - contact with the all.

being by nature polarising sto/sts myself, as opposed to sts/sto, i can yet see the unity of both paths, and why the ra have said that both paths are valuable to the creator, and have the potential to have us ascend to fourth density.

i guess our tripping point lies in our duality, and our relative sense of good and evil. perhaps its true after all that our experiencing here lies beyond ideas of right and wrong... although as i respect the role/path of the neg, my role is to live to see the self-empowered and freedom based heart-activation of all, me included. mark

Tenet Nosce

07-27-2011, 05:37 PM

glad to have stimulated some more discussion! to clarify, i am not at all down on myself, though i do appreciate the kind words of support. sometimes it is difficult to tackle a high-level concept directly, and so we must take a more circuitous approach..

the idea i am getting at here is that i can see how defining oneself as sto is actually an sts act. it is divisive in nature, and not unifying. for me to say "i am sto" requires some sort of comparison to be drawn in my mind to somebody else that i think is "sts". so, in looking at another and saying that i am "not that" is to tell a lie. because i am that. are we not all things??

even if it turns out to be true that the me in this life is more sto than sts, i really cannot say what the overall balance might be when taken in consideration of dark roles i may have led in the past. to deny this possibility would deprive me of the incredible opportunity to forgive myself for my previous dark roles, and to learn something valuable from them. perhaps even life-saving. ;)

moreover, to portray myself as only "light and love" in a public way would also deprive others of the opportunity to accept the negative roles that they may have played in the past. surely, this would not serve them. nor would it serve me to place myself in such a hypocritical position. so better to remain agnostic, simply do my best, and let the chips fall where they may.

one thing i can say for sure is that life is a process of awakening. there is no single awakening moment, and then that is it. there is always present that spiritual trap of believing that one "has arrived", or that they have all the answers. or similarly as occurs when one believes that their spiritual "protection" is infallible, and thus no negative or distorting influence could possibly creep in the back door.

to such a person, the universe just can't help but say, "oh really?" and then proceed to go about proving them wrong. and the more "sure" one is, the bigger and more devastating the wake up call will be.

i dunno if oriax will ever happen to come by this thread again, but if s/he does, i would like to offer a humble apology. for me to swoop in on this thread and pontificate on sto/sts as if i had all the answers was misguided and egotistical. i can only hope that these latest posts has helped to bring the thread back closer to balance.

cheers!

Jeia Ra Manuk

07-28-2011, 06:56 AM

wait wait wait.
just thought of this, you guys:
consider a person who learns the loo. he might be very kind to start with and always did do good things for others. or he might've been a bit shallow before reading the loo. that's not the point. he learns in the loo that to "pass" you need either 51% sto or 95% sts. let's say that this person is not anywhere near the sto requirement. well, take even the fact that he reads the loo and takes his actions under consideration. he sees that he is leaning more to the 51% sto. he isn't sure if he is there yet. so after being introduced to this idea he is going to try to do more sto to "pass." he wants to pass, so essentially he is doing this because he has a need and this need is to serve others so that he, himself, will end up passing. is this action sts or sto? you decide!

since i read loo my opinions did not change and i am not paying more attention to my actions in order to pass. i am still the same me. the thing is is that most of us here are 49%sts and 51% sto. 49% of our actions are sts and 49% sto in the reflection of sts. the 2% sto is what separates us from all the non-polarized human beings that are just trying to survive. pretty much for them, the amount of please and thankyous are the same. using this analogy we thank those who never did anything for us in the first place thus adding the 2%. we do this by being a part of communities like the one we have here.
i can't really call a self centered person evil. they don't care but they are not evil. hitler was evil, but then again we can't say that he was sts because for one, he was serving those he believed were the supreme people. and let's not forget that hitler himself was no where near the biological make up of these "elites." why was he doing this then? because he was obviously nuts, but what is less obvious, is that he was under the control of negative forces and thus was serving them. hitler didn't do anything without the approval of his secret adviser. i am glad to tell you who this secret adviser was, in private.
maybe this information will put it in perspective the reasons why the negative forces rather have us not ascend at all instead of making us all become sts and ascend negatively.

love and light,
et

Jeia Ra Manuk

07-28-2011, 07:04 AM

i dunno if oriax will ever happen to come by this thread again, but if s/he does, i would like to offer a humble apology. for me to swoop in on this thread and pontificate on sto/sts as if i had all the answers was misguided and egotistical. i can only hope that these latest posts has helped to bring the thread back closer to balance.

cheers!

oriax, i think he left for good...

:(

there is no need to prove anything to each other guys, it only feeds your need to be right.
we are here to share not to criticize.
i have to admit, i wanted to leave at a certain point as well because some of you were not understanding me. i figured out this was due to the terminology that is used here. so i went and read the loo not because there was something in there i didn't know already, but because, i needed to learn the terminology that ra used there.
ra and other beings of 6d, don't communicate like we do. there is no subjectivity for them anymore.

MarkM

07-28-2011, 06:33 PM

naturally, no two people will interpret the ideas given in the loo (or in any other body of info, for that matter) the same.

even though it's a beautiful fact that as we read the interpretations of each other, we can't help to resonate with bits and pieces of each others' posts; even as we feel that other bits don't resonate with our own mandala of understanding.

so as in this there is value, there is also value in respecting the views of others regardless of perceived relevance to our respective paths. there is nothing to convince or inform each other of, merely seeking our common ground and just as happily allowing our mutual uniqueness of expression and contrasting takes on life.

to offer our thoughts freely and benignly as personal ideas and impressions is a ways away from telling each other the 'way it is', imo. everyone here may just be perfect in their understanding/mystery, and everyone here may enjoy a wide buffet table of unimaginable delicacies to choose from, while respecting the free will of others to do the same as they pick and choose their delight... no right or wrong choices! :) so let's bring our favorite dishes to the table and trust that there's a chance that someone may enjoy our pickled ham heels..

i sometimes wonder if we don't have the small beginnings of a social memory complex going on, here! mark

Tenet Nosce

07-28-2011, 07:40 PM

naturally, no two people will interpret the ideas given in the loo (or in any other body of info, for that matter) the same.

let's thank our lucky stars for that!

even though it's a beautiful fact that as we read the interpretations of each other, we can't help to resonate with bits and pieces of each others' posts; even as we feel that other bits don't resonate with our own mandala of understanding.

perhaps there is a mandala that contains all possible viewpoints within it. (see latest crop circle (http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2011/etchilhampton/etchilhampton2011a.html) for reference.) (not the pipe-smoking alien (http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2011/cherhillwhitehorse/cherhillwhitehorse2011a.html) one, the mandala one.)

so as in this there is value, there is also value in respecting the views of others regardless of perceived relevance to our respective paths.

to a point. i have little respect, for example, for the view which says human beings must kill one another in order to live in peace.

there is nothing to convince or inform each other of, merely seeking our common ground and just as happily allowing our mutual uniqueness of expression and contrasting takes on life.

what if the convincing is part of the uniqueness of expression?

to offer our thoughts freely and benignly as personal ideas and impressions is a ways away from telling each other the 'way it is', imo.

for sure. now how does this come into play when certain personal ideas and impressions are a priori deemed inadmissible?

that's just the way it is
some things will never change
that's just the way it is
ah, but don't you believe them

everyone here may just be perfect in their understanding/mystery, and everyone here may enjoy a wide buffet table of unimaginable delicacies to choose from, while respecting the free will of others to do the same as they pick and choose their delight... no right or wrong choices! :)

surely, it takes all kinds. right and wrong are only relative to a stated purpose. yet, what shall one do when observing a brother/sister moving away from their stated purpose, yet believing they are moving in the "right" direction?

so let's bring our favorite dishes to the table and trust that there's a chance that someone may enjoy our pickled ham heels..

chilled monkey brains! :cool:

i sometimes wonder if we don't have the small beginnings of a social memory complex going on, here!

no doubt. only i would perceive the beginnings of two... one negative and one positive. i would imagine those in favor of the negative path might be attempting to project a false image of themselves onto the well-meaning, but somewhat naive smc neophytes. surely, they wouldn't come right out and say, "who wants to be a slave?"

say, have you ever read a wrinkle in time? a truly (inter)stellar book, imo!

Jeia Ra Manuk

07-28-2011, 09:18 PM

mark,
that was so well put! thank you!

i think we are all part of a smc already. it doesn't matter what the term is or what the implied meaning is behind it. what matters is that we can agree to disagree and thus we are agreeing!

i was just on a stroll with my son the whole evening and he is very fascinated by planes. i keep looking at the sky in hopes and so does he (in hopes to see a plane). although we are looking up for different reasons we are both looking up in hope and we are both looking up!

love and light and love,
et

MarkM

07-29-2011, 03:05 PM

thank you liz!

my view of a smc which i have gathered from the loo is that in fourth density we begin the process of becoming functionally aware of actually being each other, harmonically grouping together into a cohesive whole in which each of our identities contains the identities of all others in the planetary group.

whereas first density life has as its challenge conscious awareness, and second density has individualized awareness as its challenge, third density has loving awareness of identifying with all life as its challenge.

so first density experiencing is all about coming at the end to have any awareness at all - awareness of existance. second density experiencing is all about coming at the end to attain awareness of self. third density is about coming to expand self awareness to include the notion of all 'outer' life forms through the modem of love and the possibility that there is one consciousness in reality.

fourth density would therefore represent to me taking that attainment of all-inclusive love and eventually over time working that into a direct experience of having the gradually evolving opportunity to actually have the individuality of other smc members as our own experience, with the benefit of the sum total of all the distilled life experience of the other members as our own, in actuality.

this is simply my own musing, not held to be true for anyone else let alone myself, and this is offered on the off chance that someone may read it and have some spark of inspiration to apply to their own musings on what may be. i don't hold myself to be correct.

tenet, how indeed can we bless a murderer and his path? how can we fully accept as blessed the depravities of life?

here's a link to dr. scott mandelker's site, and he has a little essay entitled "human crisis and the divine plan" which addresses the issue. i've posted this link before but its such a wonderful read i'll put it up again. you'll see the link to the essay on the homepage, down a little ways.

this deals with the ever-sliding scale of spiritual overview and context and may aid with the subject of dealing with the shifting context of relativity which we all encounter in a loo spiritual discussion. as one may bless the murderer and another be reluctant to accept that, this really may aid our discussions on the loo. remember to click on the link to the essay:

http://www.scottmandelker.com/ mark

EcyaC

07-29-2011, 03:22 PM

"the idea i am getting at here is that i can see how defining oneself as sto is actually an sts act. it is divisive in nature, and not unifying. for me to say "i am sto" requires some sort of comparison to be drawn in my mind to somebody else that i think is "sts". so, in looking at another and saying that i am "not that" is to tell a lie. because i am that. are we not all things??"

isn't it true we're not all things when we're not perceiving ourselves to be despite the fact we are, indeed, all things?

i'm constantly considering what dave recently noted:

"...l/l research was specifically told that if they didn't maintain exceptional harmony, their contact could actually be replaced by a negative entity posing as a positive. this is a frequent, unfortunate problem in channeling cases."

this knowledge makes me wanna keep an eye out for the poser...can't help but think the "matters of 51% and 95%" were not only "given to us so we may make some initial sense of that which is at its heart indistinguishable" as mr. mm would say, but this could have actually been the deceptive/negative/selfish entity out to make naive ones think they could get away with being a little "bad" every now and then and still "pass" with flying colors in time...

"the human experience contains certain elements that are unavoidably sts. eating, sex, marriage, ownership, money, the family unit (taking care of "one's own") are all examples of things that can never really be fully sto, given the parameters of the human experience."

i serve my fam pickled ham heels and chilled monkey brains and french fries every friday night because it's a meal we all think tastes good and is healthyish.

it's all about perception...here's to that and to seemingly making the (right) choices! cheers!

MarkM

07-29-2011, 08:07 PM

this knowledge makes me wanna keep an eye out for the poser...can't help but think the "matters of 51% and 95%" were not only "given to us so we may make some initial sense of that which is at its heart indistinguishable" as mr. mm would say, but this could have actually been the deceptive/negative/selfish entity out to make naive ones think they could get away with being a little "bad" every now and then and still "pass" with flying colors in time...

my guess is that we all will pass with flying colours in time, even the 'baddest asses' among us.. ;) i've never personally known anyone who isn't at least a little bad now and then...

"there was a little girl,

who had a little curl,

right in the middle of her fore'ead,

and when she was good, she was very, very good,

and when she was bad, she was horrid." :rolleyes:

Jeia Ra Manuk

07-29-2011, 08:34 PM

my view of a smc which i have gathered from the loo is that in fourth density we begin the process of becoming functionally aware of actually being each other, harmonically grouping together into a cohesive whole in which each of our identities contains the identities of all others in the planetary group.

okay, i understand. what ever term is used and what ever the general understanding is i always tend to lean to the fact that we are all already parts of each other, we just don't realize it yet. so yes, everything you said perfectly fits into my understanding as well.

i feel as if all these densities 1-7 are just the same chakra points we have but they are the points of the great one's kundalini. and the 8th density is the death/birth process.

when i was little i used to compare my body to the earth itself. saying that my veins are like rivers and my lungs are like the amazon forest. and so on...

do you see where i am getting at!

it's like, the first density are chemicals... we are made out of chemicals. but these chemicals aren't self aware... actually, not aware at all.
can you imagine if every chemical in our body was aware and had its own "i"...

i think, essentially everything follows the same pattern or what i like to call the ripple effect. at the bottom of all of this, even if it is an internal being and we are its counterparts... like all the characters in your dreams which are actually you with a mask... it has to have a wave... a vibration... a beat! this beat would then function as both the life source and the life... the love and the light in one.

and to ecyac,

great response! i think that we all have to confront our demons one time or another, right? so... everyone who is in higher density went through the lower, made mistakes, tried to fix them... and so on.

i don't think we will have the opportunity to fix all our wrongs in this density and this is due to our limited awareness!

we all end up in the positive vibrations at the end... at some point the 5th density negative being is cornered because it has no room to evolve into. it is stuck... the only way to truly understand and confront the fact that we are all and we are internal is with love. if we keep putting this self love to a doubt we will keep creating lessons for ourselves subconsciously so that we can learn that first each single one of us has to accept themselves before accepting others. and accepting others is essentially accepting yourself! a paradox! but if you just love... there is no need to ponder upon paradoxes and so one can move on accept more love/light!

love and light,
et

EcyaC

07-29-2011, 09:52 PM

"there was a little girl,

who had a little curl,

right in the middle of her fore'ead,

and when she was good, she was very, very good,

and when she was bad, she was horrid..."

if even only just one of us passes with flying colours in "time" then, in a sense, we all do. :rolleyes:;)=p =)

"...half willing, half reluctant to be led,
and leave his broken playthings on the floor,
still gazing at them through the open door,
nor wholly reassured and comforted
by promises of others in their stead,
which though more splendid, may not please him more;
so nature deals with us, and takes away
our playthings one by one, and by the hand
leads us to rest so gently, that we go
scarce knowing if we wish to go or stay,
being too full of sleep to understand
how far the unknown transcends the what we know."

Jeia Ra Manuk

07-30-2011, 07:47 AM

if even only just one of us passes with flying colours in "time" then, in a sense, we all do. :rolleyes:;)=p =)

exactly!

love and light,
et

MarkM

07-30-2011, 03:04 PM

okay, i understand. what ever term is used and what ever the general understanding is i always tend to lean to the fact that we are all already parts of each other, we just don't realize it yet. so yes, everything you said perfectly fits into my understanding as well.

i feel as if all these densities 1-7 are just the same chakra points we have but they are the points of the great one's kundalini. and the 8th density is the death/birth process.

when i was little i used to compare my body to the earth itself. saying that my veins are like rivers and my lungs are like the amazon forest. and so on...

do you see where i am getting at!

it's like, the first density are chemicals... we are made out of chemicals. but these chemicals aren't self aware... actually, not aware at all.
can you imagine if every chemical in our body was aware and had its own "i"...

i think, essentially everything follows the same pattern or what i like to call the ripple effect. at the bottom of all of this, even if it is an internal being and we are its counterparts... like all the characters in your dreams which are actually you with a mask... it has to have a wave... a vibration... a beat! this beat would then function as both the life source and the life... the love and the light in one.

i must express my appreciation for this, i do see myself in you sometimes.

what followed me back from my childhood, which i can only now make an attempt to put into words, is the feeling that with movement (wave) came distortion... in other words, a trade-off... to experience anything is to be bound by illusion and the state of distortion into mystery. to have all mystery resolved would be to cease to experience. to experience - to create a wave - you have a fractally recursive kaleidoscope of wonders and mysteries within mysteries, ad infinitum.

life's like that, huh? from the micro to the macro, from the eighth/first density, which is the imagined nexus point or alpha/omega point, you have a cycling of the creator from mystery and innocent awe...up throught the densities where the ratio of mystery/experience to distortion shifts.

you get more existance-wisdom, perhaps, as you go, less in mystery as to the workings of the universe, less 'separate' from the universe, less distorted in perception and experience but perhaps inversely as you approach reunion with all as one in your experiencing you are less available to novelty and movement ... until that alpha/omega point is reached again - that infinitely nirvanic yet untenable point at which mystery and experience give way to infinite intelligence with no means of experiencing.

a universal divine comedy and the ultimate irony; as the majestic joys of the journey and the grand climactic arrival back to oneness necessitates a renewed explosion out into infinite manyness, distortion and mystery for the sake of renewed experience and discovery.

this is problematic of course because it is linear thought in time and this is presented as occurring in time; when perhaps this existance cycle is perpetually in the now at all points of the cycle, and say for example first density experience is ever part of the experience of the creator and all the holographic 'mini-me' creators out there. (on some level maybe each of us is having direct experience of all other experience, filtered out according to free will so we can enjoy a finely modulated 'single' line of existance/mystery)

i get the image of a water-filled 'torus' balloon, flipping around itself endlessly...

i'd also suspect that as all that is manifest is an expression of consciousness, first density isn't apportioned into manyness, as 2nd and third 'seem' to be, and the rudiments of awareness are manifest only in the broadest terms. perhaps all 'inanimate chemical matter throughout the universe shares this rudimentary form of consciousness, as opposed to the idea of a pebble having an awareness of its own. that may help make more sense of ra's mention of the consciousness of 'infinite rock-ness', hey - just a thought, i don't know. maybe all the potassium iodide in the universe has it's own id..

okay, that's my typing lesson done for the day! later in love, markish

MarkM

07-30-2011, 04:11 PM

ecyac, reprising my poem about the first three densities of life on earth, written as a post in 2007:

warm steaming-white rain on auburn sand
a blue-white wind jostles earth with firm yet gentle hand
an ear-splitting ardor as earth stretches her limbs
and blazes smoke-orange red; a new face as twilight dims

a pact dimly remembered, a naked earth shivers
a robe of fresh colour her first travail delivers
the oceans, aware on this glowing new dawn
the tempest abates; a golden template is drawn

(okay, someone get us back on topic before i get modded.. !)

golden shadows of mystery-bound hue
forest's form does the raucous elemental imbue
stately, patient, dark emerald reverberating cathedral's halls
...discerned, a future unfurling resounding from violet-pink canyon walls

the laden green sky a silvery hint drops
of awareness enhanced; a new voice echoes amongst the tree tops
a babe 'neath the woods, a prodigy of past's promise keeps
an ecstatic new mother sings softly whilst her little child sleeps

Jeia Ra Manuk

07-30-2011, 07:16 PM

mark, a thought just stroke me down!

we literally earn the transition to higher density. we are a child growing up and once we grow up we want to experience childhood once more. so we do on the infinite level! we never stop growing for we never end. this is why birth and death are one in the same. there is no distinction between the two occurrences.

we spend 75% of our human life on average not growing physically.
this is a deep message. the importance of spiritual growth after the physical screams in the presence of this percentage.

i have been thinking about this since i was a child. we hit dead end in physical evolution. there is no change, we have nothing to adapt to! but on the universal spectrum this fraction of time... some 75,000 years since the switch from monkey to human, from 2nd to 3rd density (or what ever it was you were before human!) is nothing! a mere fraction of a second. one single drop of water in the endless universal sea of creation!

i just want all of you to understand that everything i say comes from great depth within. a depth that i am only now beginning to acknowledged!

on a personal note, mark, i feel very close to you. you are a link! a great link! it is hard for me to feel anything through the internet but your energy is emitting from my screen every time i read your words. i am trying to find the right words to express this at the moment but all i am receiving in my mind are ancient words of forgotten tongues.

love and light and love,
ra ma

Chris Priddy

07-31-2011, 12:33 AM

less 'separate' from the universe, less distorted in perception and experience but perhaps inversely as you approach reunion with all as one in your experiencing you are less available to novelty and movement ... until that alpha/omega point is reached again - that infinitely nirvanic yet untenable point at which mystery and experience give way to infinite intelligence with no means of experiencing.

a universal divine comedy and the ultimate irony; as the majestic joys of the journey and the grand climactic arrival back to oneness necessitates a renewed explosion out into infinite manyness, distortion and mystery for the sake of renewed experience and discovery.

appreciable awareness of one's "transfinite" intelligence, or their intrinsic threshold of infinitely-expansive intelligence -that then must necessarily exhibit further speciation of self: is also outlined in other reckoning of cumulative-experiential development. by ex. i used to labor in the proposition of a technological-singularity.

it's effectively an outlined 8th density maturation-infinite octave therein, overnight. a mobile, multi-dimensional appreciation of omni, yet devoid the necessity of further speciation of self. which is exactly why a theoretically sound tech-singularity isn't practically malleable. for no other reason than it's not possible to become stagnate. it's literally the proposition of one's expulsion from self. the refractive, expansive mobility of nature can't be absent or projected as indefinite subserviance.

the ra's mention of sts-perspective never being able to go beyond low 6d and 'necessarily' abandon the illusion to progress further, speaks far clearer to the practical-reality of things than i can. the starter of the thread fails to "intellectually" acknowledge the nature of reality. by consequence he rejects the necessity of making a choice to live a spiritual life for argument that says a non-cooperative environment doesn't invariably enable greater and greater discursive, subserviant activity. that man is capable of genuine-liberty or societal-transcendence through non-cooperative, sts behavior.

although i couldn't argue the rationale of our future-selves modifying environment to expedite, enrich and augment experiential-ascension isn't good conversation. myself- when i get home i'll be rasing ten kinds of hell on point. ..or work on my tan. likely i'll come to forget all about the intolerable suffering, or more accurately i'll come to fully appreciate its impetus when graduation comes. and in sight of just such seeming perspective disassociation, that otherwise compounds one's own practical seperation to greater and greater degree. it's reasonable enough "we" become mired in the meddening-heat that comes with the prospect of acceptance being at the heart of the positive use of catalyst, as ra relays it. and control being the key to negatively polarized use of catalyst. as such, obligated projections in either malignant or altrusitic martyrdom of cause becomes the societal-march.

light it up-

gus

EcyaC

07-31-2011, 08:02 AM

ecyac, reprising my poem about the first three densities of life on earth...

mmmarkish...you wrote that??? we want more!

here's some appropriate ra quotes so we can all more easily see just how much your poem is about the first three densities of life on earth:

"...the fourth, fifth, and sixth densities are those refining the higher energy centers. the seventh density is a density of completion and the turning towards timelessness or foreverness...the fourth through the seventh freely choose not to be visible...

perceive that the eighth density functions also as the beginning density or first density.

the third-density being, having the potential for complete self-awareness, thus has the potential for the minimal activation of all energy centers...third density the statue is forged in the fire...this is a type of intensity which is not the property of fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh densities...

each step recapitulates intelligent infinity in its discovery of awareness. in a planetary environment all begins in what you would call chaos, energy undirected and random in its infinity. slowly, in your terms of understanding, there forms a focus of self-awareness. thus the logos moves. light comes to form the darkness, according to the co-creator’s patterns and vibratory rhythms, so constructing a certain type of experience. this begins with first density which is the density of consciousness, the mineral and water life upon the planet learning from fire and wind the awareness of being. this is the first density...

it is well to point out that the logos has the plan of all the densities of the octave in potential completion before entering the space/time continuum in first-density. thus the energy centers exist before they are manifest...

you may see the air and fire of that which is chaos as literally illuminating and forming the formless, for earth and water were, in the timeless state, unformed.

the second density is the density of the higher plant life and animal life which exists without the upward drive towards the infinite. the second density strives towards the third density which is the density of self-consciousness or self-awareness. the striving takes place through the higher second-density forms who are invested by third-density beings with an identity to the extent that they become self-aware mind/body complexes, thus becoming mind/body/spirit complexes and entering third density, the first density of consciousness of spirit. third-density beings invest or clothe some second-density beings with self-awareness. this is often done through the opportunity of what you call pets...

you may then see that there is an inevitable pull toward the, what you may call, eventual realization of self.

the second density is one in which the groundwork is being laid for third density work. in this way it may be seen that the basic mechanism of reproduction capitulates into a vast potential in third density for service to other-self and to self; this being not only by the functions of energy transfer, but also by the various services performed due to the close contact of those who are, shall we say, magnetically attracted, one to the other; these entities thus having the opportunities for many types of service which would be unavailable to the independent entity...

the third density is a choice.

the purpose of incarnation in third density is to learn the ways of love.

no portion of the creator audits the course, to use your experiential terms. each incarnation is intended to be a course in the creator knowing itself. a review or, shall we say, to continue the metaphor, each test is an integral portion of the process of the creator knowing itself. each incarnation will end with such a test. this is so that the portion of the creator may assimilate the experiences in yellow, physical, third density, may evaluate the biases gained, and may then choose, either by means of automatically provided aid or by the self, the conditions of the next incarnation...

we also have the supposition that the so-called opposable thumb was looked upon as an excellent means of intensifying the veiling process so that rather than rediscovering the powers of the mind the third-density entity would, by the form of its physical manifestation, be drawn to the making, holding, and using of physical tools...

it is correct that the logos designed its experiment to attempt to achieve the greatest possible opportunities for polarization in third density. it is incorrect that warfare of the types specific to your experiences was planned by the logos. this form of expression of hostility is an interesting result which is apparently concomitant with the tool-making ability. the choice of the logos to use the life-form with the grasping thumb is the decision to which this type of warfare may be traced..."

DFS

07-31-2011, 01:22 PM

this thread has produced some inspiring thoughts and shared understandings, thoughts and understandings worthy of consideration and pondering, including mark's inspiring poem. however, i will endeavor to follow mark's suggestion and attempt to refocus the thread.

i agree that to label or identify self as sto can be viewed as self serving. all distortions are by nature an attempt to limit and separate, of individualizing in terms of what that thing is and is not. it is how one defines self. yet, i would suggest that this distortion of defining self is an essential aspect of third density.

sto and sts are more than mere labels chosen to serve one's self interest. they are in fact, two quite distinct perspectives for relating self to this material illusion.

in a very real sense, every choice one makes both reflects and fine tunes one's biases and attitudes, and it is these biases and attitudes that inform and mature the essential self, true self or soul self, the self that is the total of all one's incarnations through the densities.

the basic point of 3d is to balance and refine one's knowing of self until one is able to consciously say, "that is my true self, it is how i know and express my being." and the two distinct self perspectives are sto and sts.

76.16
" questioner:
third density, then, compared to the rest of the densities, all of them, is nothing but a uniquely short period of what we consider to be time and is for the purpose of this choice. is this correct?
"ra:
i am ra. this is precisely correct. the prelude to choice must encompass the laying of the foundation, the establishment of the illusion and the viability of that which can be made spiritually viable. the remainder of the densities is continuous refining of the choice. this also is greatly lengthened, as you would use the term.

the choice is, as you put it, the work of a moment but is the axis upon which the creation turns."

it is not enough to label oneself as sto or sts. rather, it must be an "aha moment," a moment of observing and accepting one's true nature, a moment of embracing what and who one truly is. and the true self, this composite of lifetimes of experiencing and choosing both reflects and determines how one views and adapts one's progression through the densities.

consider if you will how these two basic perspectives may shape one's viewpoint. consider the seeking to know self and other self. the sto perspective seeks to know self in order to discern what is valid for self and in so doing, one who has made the choice examines self and self's choices in order to clarify by noting inconsistencies. the intent is not to judge but to discern what limits and resistance one may forgive, accept and release.

sto seeks to know another self in order to best understand and serve that other self. sto seeks to lessen the barrier of separation, to as much as possible, know that other self as the creator and as self.

sts seeks to know self in order to master self and empower self. sts seeks to know another self with the intent of knowing weaknesses and strengths in order to most effectively manipulate and control that other self.

in 1.6, ra says, "you are everything, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation." sts perceives this to mean that "everything, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation is me." they are mine to use and control.

sto sees that statement as expressing unity with all that is, as oneness with the creator, and the sto perspective strives to discern inconsistencies with this unity and to forgive, accept and release them.

sts greatly values the persona or ego and seeks not to just survive but to prevail. sto sees the persona as but one brief incarnation of a greater total self seeking to ascend to unity with the creator.

i recognize that what i think i know and understand may be only a tiny bit true and not true at all for others, but i do value discussions such as this in order to clarify and expand my own thinking. after many years of study and pondering, i have experienced a moment of self clarity and seen my true self. at heart, i am sto and am seeking to discern habits, patterns of thought, biases and attitudes that are not consistent with my sto intent. i suspect it will be a lengthy and enduring process, and i find discussions such as this inspiring and beneficial.

i thank each of you for so freely sharing your thoughts and understandings.

dfs

Jeia Ra Manuk

08-01-2011, 08:02 AM

hello dfs,

so what is being said is that sts and sto are very different things from our 3d perspective.
i like what it says in your signature:

to assign blame is to give away one's power as a co-creator.

pretty much our whole conversation about sts and sto can be summarized by this. what we are trying to figure out and what the thread was actually questioning in the beginning is not only the difference between sts and sto but how can a sto being or benevolent being stand aside and watch others do wrong.

you've provided the answer!

this becomes even more relevant if we look at it from the perspectives of different densities!

love and light and love,
ra ma

Chris Priddy

08-01-2011, 03:26 PM

thread questioning - difference between sts and sto - how can a sto being or benevolent being stand aside and watch others do wrong.

hey jeia; as i understand it the thread starter is considering a 'darker' characterization of both et & man. he's suggesting that our forefathers, so to say, that is our "timeless" oneself- are in no way benevolent but rather sociopathic. and man's reflection is by nature, sts. yet even by reductionist argument this doesn't hold with reality given the fact that sts, or non-cooperative behavior is counter-intuitive acts of self-preservation.

as it is i can only offer my heart felt empathy for how he's seeing things. in that vein i would add that i personally have little doubt that it was, and is, a galactic mistake to solicit a veiled consciousness in effort to enrich and expedite experiential-polarization. possibly that helps. course all we can do is try and get it right as we go. it's not like we can call a time out!

lol

i recognize that what i think i know and understand may be only a tiny bit true and not true at all for others, but i do value discussions such as this in order to clarify and expand my own thinking. after many years of study and pondering, i have experienced a moment of self clarity and seen my true self. at heart, i am sto and am seeking to discern habits, patterns of thought, biases and attitudes that are not consistent with my sto intent. i suspect it will be a lengthy and enduring process, and i find discussions such as this inspiring and beneficial.

i thank each of you for so freely sharing your thoughts and understandings.

i agree. reactionary circumstance is not of our making. what i mean is our nature and heart is not dysfunctional, or non-cooperative. it gets my back up when i see people getting caught up in the inertia of environment, and having to tote its cumulative affect on their perspective-disposition.

34.4 questioner: thank you. would you define karma?

ra: i am ra. our understanding of karma is that which may be called inertia. those actions which are put into motion will continue using the ways of balancing until such time as the controlling or higher principle which you may liken unto your braking or stopping is invoked. this stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. these two concepts are inseparable.

ciao-

gusy

edit:

all i can say is "patients my friends, everything is already a part of the great and wonderful plan."

fine post below jeia. -ain't malleable determinism grand though.

this explains how non-linear time can exist and yet we still have free will. the choices we make, individually and collectively, represent different timelines, all of which co-exist. one of the most fascinating fringe benefits of this non-linear time system is that as we make sweeping changes in our individual and collective lives now, we are quite literally re-formatting the past. in no uncertain terms, this means that even former planets that have exploded or died, even atlantis sinking and destroying an entire civilization, even the horrors of the nazi holocaust and the nuclear attacks of hiroshima and nagasaki, can be turned around and eliminated in the now. past, present and future are all affected by the now. it seems holographic, and violating the laws of cause and effect until we realize that all these events truly are simultaneous in a real sense. the events that occurred in what we would call the "past" still happened, but now they are superseded by a more powerful and more favorable timeline.

-dw

i thus don't like to get into conversations that are in any way judgmental. i have no ego to feed. we define normality subjectively...

liberated thought, but i'm not sure how we subjectively consider suffering. best i can tell, it just is. for now. there's no justification for it to begin with. don't fix what ain't broke.

Jeia Ra Manuk

08-01-2011, 05:56 PM

hey jeia; as i understand it the thread starter is considering a 'darker' characterization of both et & man. he's suggesting that our forefathers, so to say, that is our "timeless" oneself- are in no way benevolent but rather sociopathic. and man's reflection is by nature, sts. course even by a reductionist argument this doesn't hold with reality given the fact that sts, or non-cooperative behavior is counter-intuitive acts of self-preservation.

hey friend,
this is exactly what i was referring to. i think on the larger scale once the path of sts is chosen one cancels out the possibility of admitting wrongs and asking for help (as in, directly while admitting their wrong doings). this is counter-intuitive. over all, even if we look at this from our 3d perspective, we are pack animals, as in, we are better off in groups/tribes...etc.
this is why i said, we should take under consideration all the different view points of all densities.
karma... it is rather a knot effect. you got all your knots you are trying to undo. you can either sit there calmly and try to figure out how all the knots are connected finding the best way to untie them or you can get pissed off ripping through the rope creating more knots in the process. thus the slow and steady wins the race. you learn a lot about yourself and about the rope at the same time when you choose to invest the time to try to learn its characteristics, its nature... it does not matter if the knots are your fault or were already there when you got to the rope, an impatient person will keep throwing the idea of fault around, cursing himself, cursing the rope. the patient one will learn to forgive both himself and the rope because he is taking the time for realization.

all i can say is "patients my friends, everything is already a part of the great and wonderful plan."

i love myself and love this world. i love that i am here right now with all of those who are here, be they "bad" or "good."
and because i love and i know that everything else is a part of me, i accept everything no matter what anybody says.
i thus don't like to get into conversations that are in any way judgmental. i have no ego to feed. we define normality subjectively... i say we find common ground instead of arguing all the time until the moment comes when we can see through one another thus being able to understand each other as we understand ourselves.

love and light and love,
ra ma

Jeia Ra Manuk

08-05-2011, 09:04 PM

to chris,
it is tricky how you got on top like that.
what you are proposing is being okay with the subjective thoughts of others. completely okay by the end of this co called trip.
blindly believing causes one thing, you go blind. that is why we are unable to look directly at the sun with the naked eye. this is all an even inter loop of energy. going from one to four and back to one. creating the harmonious 8. a constant flow of energy.
as for dw's words i'd have to personally rub his nose into an amazing exchange of vital energy.
my participation on this forum is completely selfish, i am but a mere messenger. i am here to realize and take as many along for the ride. that's our main goal here.
as for all the negativity: are you able to fully confront your fears?

cheers,
ec

Chris Priddy

08-05-2011, 11:26 PM

to chris,

it is tricky how you got on top like that.

"i'm not'a crook."

what you are proposing is being okay with the subjective thoughts of others. completely okay by the end of this so called trip. blindly believing causes one thing, you go blind.

true enough, but i was just saying that the subjective stance one holds w/respect of suffering's moot. least as it's drawn in context of dw's reference of practiced-simultaneity. or the prospect of collectively creating a far more favorable "timeline". effectively displacing 'suffering' -expansively.

as for dw's words i'd have to personally rub his nose into an amazing exchange of vital energy.

you're on the same wave; he's just outlined a malleable determinism is all. or pliable vitalism, if i gather you right.

this explains how non-linear time can exist and yet we still have free will. the choices we make, individually and collectively, represent different timelines, all of which co-exist. one of the most fascinating fringe benefits of this non-linear time system is that as we make sweeping changes in our individual and collective lives now, we are quite literally re-formatting the past. in no uncertain terms, this means that even former planets that have exploded or died, even atlantis sinking and destroying an entire civilization, even the horrors of the nazi holocaust and the nuclear attacks of hiroshima and nagasaki, can be turned around and eliminated in the now. past, present and future are all affected by the now. it seems holographic, and violating the laws of cause and effect until we realize that all these events truly are simultaneous in a real sense. the events that occurred in what we would call the "past" still happened, but now they are superseded by a more powerful and more favorable timeline.

-dw

my participation on this forum is completely selfish, i am but a mere messenger. i am here to realize and take as many along for the ride. that's our main goal here.

as you say.

me, i'm doing good to find my way across the street.

as for all the negativity: are you able to fully confront your fears?

you mean i have a choice!

Jeia Ra Manuk

08-06-2011, 12:43 PM

no choice just an illusion of the passage of time.
if a course was established before the creation, then the course was created by the creator. if the course is created by the creator it is thus created by all of us.
a well, baby steps lead to great leaps.
as for dw, i restrain from commenting on words of others when they are not present in the discussion. this is more likely what i meant.
what you say is one thing, how i receive and perceive what you said is another. yet, as there is no polarity there is only one thought, one action, one way and one need.
all mere extensions of the central point of creation. creating weight and thus circulating the creator.

or the prospect of collectively creating a far more favorable "timeline". effectively displacing 'suffering' -expansively.
i don't need you to get it, but do try to understand if you want to! here on this plane and density of existence the displacement of suffering is not good enough for the real dissolvement of these issues must occur in time/space.
those that are ready to go through this process will move onto the next density. those that live their life according to everyday survival will remain here on 3d until they realize what must be done. and those that are living for themselves and for the preservation of separation will not be with us during the process. you know all of this probably.

love
ra ma

p.s: i know you aren't a crook! i just didn't see your reply because it was on top! lol

scottki

08-11-2011, 10:25 PM

in which way is it destructive for you? as in you can't resolve the conflict? are you actually very sensitive and shy although semi-addicted to conflict?
love,
et

exactly right! i am sensitive and shy (and as you can see, love talking about myself :o) so emotionally i find it difficult and destructive. i have learned a great deal about myself from observing my dog. dogs are like mirrors as they soak up your personality. i probably attracted the dog also as i got him from a dog shelter and did not know anything about the breed if any that he was. he is bangkaew thai dog which has a bit of jackal dna tests have shown. they are therefore a bit fear aggressive. he tries to ignore other dogs but when he has been attacked by a pack he was able to get bites in on them one by one and his sheer ferociousness wins the day. you see the tamer the dog the less fearful they are and that is pretty much down to the amount of adrenalin produced. i and him have a strong fight or fight response because of the high levels of adrenalin produced. this actually makes us shy and fearful because we over react to things. it also probably makes me a bit addicted to arguments :o

carla described jim as having a racehorse personality and that is a good way to describe it, fearful but if forced to act then use that adrenalin well. i wonder if that is a common wanderer trait?

LS12

08-11-2011, 10:34 PM

ever since seeing david in 2012 event horizon, i have been a devoted fan. i beleive so much in his work that i went and read a huge portion of the law of one channeling sessions. although much of the law of one resonates with me their are certain things underlying that throw me for a loop and hang me up. the sheer complexity and subtle nuances and message of true love have me totally transfixed and well almost hypnotized. i know as described by ra there are both a service to others group(the confederation) and a service to the self group(or orion) and neither are right or wrong but just are. ra(as do other aliens like the ones [channeler removed] channels) as goes to great lengths to impress this upon the audience that neither are right or wrong. now if one looks at alien abduction cases and reports, one gets the feeling that the experimentor has no real purpose but to show hate for and terrrorize its victim and then erase their memory leaving them with broken fragments and deep seated fear experience of evil. within ra's paradigm, this would be the orion group and evil on par with good. didn't the main guy from l/l research go crazy and kill himself some years after his channeling sessions? did anyone see the movie "the fourth kind"? yes it is a movie but there are many things about it that echo the true confessions of alien abductees. there is the owl at the window(whitley strieber) to erase the memory, the gut wrenching terror, and distinct smell of sulphur, and the sumerian language being spoken, when these creatures are around. i don't get what their purpose is....but usually the person being affected can go crazy and kill themselves.

first off i am not deeply religious or here to convert anyone to my opinion just to work through my own questions from youth and get a better feeling for david's thoughts on the matter. what does david think of demons? what about negative spirits and the oija board? what does he think about the guy from l/l research going crazy and killing himself. is it possible that negative force might be working through david. has he watched the movie "the rite"? does he consider demonic possession reports and what does he think of that? and last but not least does he ever get the feeling that he is playing with something he shouldn't be or that he is being had? i have these feelings and these doubts that always linger no matter how much it resonates or i beleive in this. every time i try to meditate, i will feel very negative after. if there were a satan it would be ingenious for him to disguise his plans in love to get all men to consider themselves god's equal would it not? the bible always said satan masquerades as an angel of light. what i can't reconcile out of all of this is if we could be falling for someone's trick? i want to get past this but it the thought that i am on the wrong side haunts me. now i also recognize another evil that masquerades as good can be the church so i am balanced in thought here but not in reconciliation of these questions. david's work really resonates but the other stuff seems to linger. sorry if i derailed the post just in need of some answers.

Jeia Ra Manuk

08-12-2011, 10:27 AM

exactly right! i am sensitive and shy (and as you can see, love talking about myself :o) so emotionally i find it difficult and destructive. i have learned a great deal about myself from observing my dog. dogs are like mirrors as they soak up your personality. i probably attracted the dog also as i got him from a dog shelter and did not know anything about the breed if any that he was. he is bangkaew thai dog which has a bit of jackal dna tests have shown. they are therefore a bit fear aggressive. he tries to ignore other dogs but when he has been attacked by a pack he was able to get bites in on them one by one and his sheer ferociousness wins the day. you see the tamer the dog the less fearful they are and that is pretty much down to the amount of adrenalin produced. i and him have a strong fight or fight response because of the high levels of adrenalin produced. this actually makes us shy and fearful because we over react to things. it also probably makes me a bit addicted to arguments :o

carla described jim as having a racehorse personality and that is a good way to describe it, fearful but if forced to act then use that adrenalin well. i wonder if that is a common wanderer trait?

thank you! i also see myself in my cat and when my dog was alive i saw myself in him as well. my cat is very strange. any person i know that has ever told me they don't like cats, changed their minds instantly after meeting her. so, i am sort of the same. i had a couple of cases when i got really close to some one and they told me that when they first met me they thought i was mean or better put b****. i laugh because it's obviously not that way. it's just i can look like it when i don't want to be bothered. throughout my life i tried to define my personality and i finally stopped at chameleon. i get along with all kinds of people. i am very good at knowing what i should say to some and what i shouldn't say to others. although i am a bit of a loner, when i do go public i am on fire. so yes, i am shy and sensitive as well but if i feel comfortable i get a boost of energy and i am okay! i don't like conflict. i am a very neutral person. i'd even say "turn the other cheek" type. i do artistic things to release stress and anger.
although there are traits that all wanderers have in common we do have to remember that even they come from different places. at the end, there are only 12 basic personalities and at the very end, there is only one being. =]

love and light,
ra ma

scottki

08-12-2011, 09:04 PM

wait wait wait.
just thought of this, you guys:
consider a person who learns the loo. he might be very kind to start with and always did do good things for others. or he might've been a bit shallow before reading the loo. that's not the point. he learns in the loo that to "pass" you need either 51% sto or 95% sts. let's say that this person is not anywhere near the sto requirement. well, take even the fact that he reads the loo and takes his actions under consideration. he sees that he is leaning more to the 51% sto. he isn't sure if he is there yet. so after being introduced to this idea he is going to try to do more sto to "pass." he wants to pass, so essentially he is doing this because he has a need and this need is to serve others so that he, himself, will end up passing. is this action sts or sto? you decide!

since i read loo my opinions did not change and i am not paying more attention to my actions in order to pass. i am still the same me. the thing is is that most of us here are 49%sts and 51% sto. 49% of our actions are sts and 49% sto in the reflection of sts. the 2% sto is what separates us from all the non-polarized human beings that are just trying to survive. pretty much for them, the amount of please and thankyous are the same. using this analogy we thank those who never did anything for us in the first place thus adding the 2%. we do this by being a part of communities like the one we have here.
i can't really call a self centered person evil. they don't care but they are not evil. hitler was evil, but then again we can't say that he was sts because for one, he was serving those he believed were the supreme people. and let's not forget that hitler himself was no where near the biological make up of these "elites." why was he doing this then? because he was obviously nuts, but what is less obvious, is that he was under the control of negative forces and thus was serving them. hitler didn't do anything without the approval of his secret adviser. maybe this information will put it in perspective the reasons why the negative forces rather have us not ascend at all instead of making us all become sts and ascend negatively.

love and light,
et

i have heard people say that hitler was a rothschild but he did not graduate to sts 4d-. i think you can force yourself to make harvest even if you do not enjoy it as ra said that when they were in 3d, some found the love a bit sickly and in order for them to make harvest, they had to be taught the logic behind graduating. they forced themselves to make graduation.

scottki

08-12-2011, 09:30 PM

i used to think abraham hicks message was a bit selfish but now i realize it is just the reality of the loo. the creator split in order to experience and therefore whatever makes you happy is what serves the creator. the only caveat being not to infringe on another part of the creator's free will. the emotions are the guidance system. if you feel bad about doing something, then you know that that something was not serving the creator, that is not in your own best interest.

LS12

08-13-2011, 08:41 PM

Jeia Ra Manuk

08-13-2011, 09:44 PM

think the law of one answer to where hitler is now was a little strange. ra said "the mind/body/spirit complex known as adolf is at this time in an healing process in the middle astral planes of your spherical force field. this entity was greatly confused and, although aware of the circumstance of change in vibratory level associated with the cessation of the chemical body complex, nevertheless, needed a great deal of care." what is the heeling process? where is karma? how come it doesn't apply here. i would say he infringed on people's free will when he took their lives and chance to have free will to live. any kind of consequence to that kind of atrocious behavior seems grossly minimized by protocol. what might one imagine the extra special care is that adolf is receiving in the middle astral planes?

interesting point! i don't quite know what kind of care he is receiving. this raises a lot of questions. hitler was involved with the orion group. maybe his own free will was infringed upon and so this might explain why he was so confused? so hitler knew about ascension but did not quite make it because his being "needed a grate deal of care" because he was confused?

love,
ra ma

scottki

08-14-2011, 03:33 AM

think the law of one answer to where hitler is now was a little strange. ra said "the mind/body/spirit complex known as adolf is at this time in an healing process in the middle astral planes of your spherical force field. this entity was greatly confused and, although aware of the circumstance of change in vibratory level associated with the cessation of the chemical body complex, nevertheless, needed a great deal of care." what is the heeling process? where is karma? how come it doesn't apply here. i would say he infringed on people's free will when he took their lives and chance to have free will to live. any kind of consequence to that kind of atrocious behavior seems grossly minimized by protocol. what might one imagine the extra special care is that adolf is receiving in the middle astral planes?

i think they are saying that hitler was not entirely convinced he had died and thus is what we would call a ghost? ? ? he needs healing in order to get to where he can then contemplate what he did. as for karma, well that is entirely up to him. in 3d, one only chooses to repay a karmic debt if they want to gain in positive polarity. if he wants to gain in negative polarity he will have to incarnate as a rothschild etc and orchestrate world events and take away the free will of 6bn people etc. do you think gengis khan repaid any karmic debts and he made hitler look like a saint?

Burton

08-14-2011, 06:38 AM

think the law of one answer to where hitler is now was a little strange. ra said "the mind/body/spirit complex known as adolf is at this time in an healing process in the middle astral planes of your spherical force field. this entity was greatly confused and, although aware of the circumstance of change in vibratory level associated with the cessation of the chemical body complex, nevertheless, needed a great deal of care." what is the heeling process? where is karma? how come it doesn't apply here. i would say he infringed on people's free will when he took their lives and chance to have free will to live. any kind of consequence to that kind of atrocious behavior seems grossly minimized by protocol. what might one imagine the extra special care is that adolf is receiving in the middle astral planes?

to me this means that the one known as aldof, after essentially commanding these atrocities be committed, is still unable to even begin the healing process. it seems that he is still caught up in a bundle of fear so to speak. the healing process begins with forgiveness. the greater the misstep the harder to find that forgiveness of self.

the special aid would, i assume, be the amount of love being offered to this entity to untangle the knot of fear and start the process of restitution.

LS12

08-14-2011, 08:45 AM

good answers guys. karma only is repaid in going the positive route then i guess. but i do not think he is a ghost from this statement: "although aware of the circumstance of change in vibratory level associated with the cessation of the chemical body complex, nevertheless, needed a great deal of care." so maybe he is receiving love, but how would that be unless he were in the positive choosing to repay his karma? wouldn't the negative path basically allow him to come back as a rothschild or rockefeller and orchestrate world events and forgo a :eek:silly healing crisis as it goes against his beleifs........ i feel this is one of the most important subjects for discerning ra's dualistic 6th density nature. if i were asking him questions, i would get as much detail as possible on this one as i feel it might give one great insight into where ra really stands on this issue and if he really knows where hitler is and/or if he is holding back something(i feel he is). the detail i would ask would be what is his day like? is he surrounded by people? what is his confusion? why did he need a great deal of care if he chose the negative polarity and care would go against this? i think ra contradicts himself here. :eek:

Chris Priddy

08-14-2011, 10:47 PM

questioner: thank you. would you define karma?

ra: i am ra. our understanding of karma is that which may be called inertia. those actions which are put into motion will continue using the ways of balancing until such time as the controlling or higher principle which you may liken unto your braking or stopping is invoked. this stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. these two concepts are inseparable.

i always think of 'love at first sight' when i read this. what i mean is if a hitler or a tobaco industry were to instantly forgive themselves; 'inertia' or karmic liability would cease. strangely enough those that could not, or would not accept that a perspective of malicious sts indifference for life & liberty could instantly become love, would effectively be serving out the apparent absenteeism from karmic debt. not unlike the imbalance of martyrdom the ra spoke of when outlining jesus' trials of perspective. course we're seemingly talking a 'perfect world' transformation (?) ..it's an astounding thing, love is.

if retribution or karmic liability were the reality rather than one's perspective-illusion, sts-inertia would be a constant and sto-forgiveness or love would then necessarily be an illusion. which isn't possible given the fact that the system or consciousness must be absolute or devoid dysfunction. otherwise consciousness would cease, or couldn't be is accurate.

intelligent infinity intelligent energy

there is unity. this unity is all there is. this unity has a potential and a kinetic. the potential is intelligent infinity. tapping this potential will yield work, or the kinetic. this work has been called intelligent energy. yet there is no difference, potential or kinetic, in unity. the basic rhythms of intelligent infinity are totally without distortion of any kind. its unity is undistorted.

-ra

from a mathematical perspective - a pure point - has no “time” and “space” as we now think of it.

-dw

scottki

08-15-2011, 03:20 AM

the more fear and guilt he feels the more positive/less negative he is imo.

LS12

08-15-2011, 08:58 PM

Burton

08-16-2011, 05:53 AM

if he needed special care........wouldn't he have to ask for it? and if he was just intent on continuing on the sts path, then he could forgoe unnecessary holdups, like the special care ra said he needed/was receiving. if he decided to somehow polarize positive then he would be bound by karma. the contradiction remains. did ra really know or was he not telling us something here.......

here is another helpful quote i found from the ra material. it appears that adolfo attempt to achieve a level of activation of the higher energy centers that it was not ready for, from a balancing perspective. this helps explain why so much care was/is needed with this entity.

35.4 questioner: i would now like to ask for the same type of information with respect to adolf hitler. you have given a little of this already. it is not necessary for you to recover what you have already given. could you complete that information?
ra: i am ra. in speaking of the one you call adolf we have some difficulty due to the intense amount of confusion present in this entity’s life patterns as well as the great confusion which greets any discussion of this entity.

here we see an example of one who, in attempting activation of the highest rays of energy while lacking the green ray key, canceled itself out as far as polarization either towards positive or negative. this entity was basically negative. however, its confusion was such that the personality disintegrated, thus leaving the mind/body/spirit complex unharvestable and much in need of healing.

this entity followed the pattern of negative polarization which suggests the elite and the enslaved, this being seen by the entity to be of an helpful nature for the societal structure. however, in drifting from the conscious polarization into what you may call a twilight world where dream took the place of events in your space/time continuum, this entity failed in its attempt to serve the creator in an harvestable degree along the path of service to self. thus we see the so-called insanity which may often arise when an entity attempts to polarize more quickly than experience may be integrated.

we have advised and suggested caution and patience in previous communications and do so again, using this entity as an example of the over-hasty opening of polarization without due attention to the synthesized and integrated mind/body/spirit complex. to know your self is to have the foundation upon firm ground.

Jeia Ra Manuk

08-16-2011, 06:17 AM

not hiding, just not finishing its thoughts i guess. or maybe the right follow up question never came up!

LS12

08-16-2011, 07:40 AM

"however, in drifting from the conscious polarization into what you may call a twilight world where dream took the place of events in your space/time continuum, this entity failed in its attempt to serve the creator in an harvestable degree along the path of service to self." well this looks like what happened to him after he died maybe. i would assume lower astral planes, but they put him in the middle astral planes?? and i wonder how he failed in service to self, i mean this guy is a prime example of service to self. it's almost like he's saying hitler wasn't evil enough.

LS12

08-16-2011, 07:45 AM

Burton

08-16-2011, 09:23 AM

"here we see an example of one who, in attempting activation of the highest rays of energy while lacking the green ray key, canceled itself out as far as polarization either towards positive or negative. this entity was basically negative. however, its confusion was such that the personality disintegrated, thus leaving the mind/body/spirit complex unharvestable and much in need of healing." i guess this should cover a bunch of it but i do not understand the green ray key stuff yet in reference to the harvest and such. how did he cancel himself out for negative???? and personality disintegrated....dont' understand sorry. anybody have a quick synopsis of key attainment and such?

the green ray is completely closed on the negative path. a sts entity believes universal love is a folly, as ra puts it. this gets a little bit tricky to explain, and please note most of this is my opinion on what ra has taught. it states that adolf had activated the higher energy centers (5/6/7) with out achieving the minimum activation level of the first three chakras.

essentially this caused an instreaming of energy into his complex that his base vibration was unable to sustain. causing it to collapse. think of it like a foundation of a sky scraper, you can't achieve the hights required, with out a strong foundation. or the building will collapse.

this is why there must be a minimum balance level achieved for graduation because without that balance the entity would not be able to handle the higher density of light.

ra also states that when taking [names deleted] drugs there is the possibility of "blowing a hole in your aura/energy body". i believe this is what happened to adolf but on a larger scale, causing complete disintegration of the personality complex.

Jeia Ra Manuk

08-16-2011, 12:08 PM

[moderator deleting drug discussion as it invites others to talk about them which is against the rules]

i wonder what was the last thing that finally pushed hitler to kill himself and how did it all happen? maybe that whole situation is exactly what caused him to go to "spiritual rehab."

[moderator: hitler is believed to have contracted syphillis in his early years, which can cause insanity-please google "hitler and syphillis"-]

love and light and love,
ra ma

LS12

08-16-2011, 07:53 PM

adolf killed himself because he lost the war and the allies were going to capture him. so he shot his wife and his dog and then himself. he was defiant till the end. that's why i can't see him trying for any positive reality and he didn't make the cut the other way.

scottki

08-16-2011, 10:25 PM

[ and i wonder how he failed in service to self, i mean this guy is a prime example of service to self. it's almost like he's saying hitler wasn't evil enough.

i know what you mean. i think there are a few reasons; 1. he thought he was doing a good thing - he was insane 2. he was honest about what he was doing and was not particularly manipulative. ra says those with the distortion towards power are in communication with the orion group. we have probably never of them and they certainly do not make speeches about what they think. they manipulative events so that the people demand a police state, war etc. hitler was a genocidal maniac. those that make sts harvest are patient, charming, cool and calculating. they come across as someone like tony blair although obviously he is a puppet.

scottki

08-16-2011, 10:34 PM

it states that adolf had activated the higher energy centers (5/6/7) with out achieving the minimum activation level of the first three chakras.

i speculate that it was mostly the yellow ray energy centre that was blocked as that is the centre for self awareness. if he was living in a twilight world he could well have become unselfaware? ? ?

Apophis

11-01-2011, 10:16 PM

in the movie series the matrix, is the character neo, service to self orientated, or service to others orientated?

Sammy

11-02-2011, 06:20 AM

in the movie series the matrix, is the character neo, service to self orientated, or service to others orientated?

thats a good question. i would say he is service to himself. others have him being pushed to service them, but with him also as another demise if he fails. before morphius had shown up with his fancy pills, neo was a hacker dealer with no thought toward helping others that i saw. i think the only things actualy servicing others in that series is the machines... just in a totaly creepy way haha.

Apophis

11-02-2011, 11:07 AM

so even by the end of the movie series, when he sacrifices himself to save everyone else, human or program, he is still in service to himself?

Jeia Ra Manuk

11-02-2011, 01:26 PM

you are always in service to self, because others are you as well. it is just when you are sts you are focusing only on yourself and that is only a fraction of the whole, right? when you are sto you are focusing on all other selves and through that you realize the oneness with all. so sts is not only limiting but you keep pushing for separation from all other selves. when through sto you can rejoin the one that is all of us.

for example,
if i love you, i will treat you how i would want to be treated, thus i also love myself.
to be able to agree fully with someone else does not require you abandoning your opinion, it only requires your trust in the opinions of others.
thus even if you do not love me, i love you and i love myself. and if i am accepting of your opinion, that means i respect the choice that you, my other self, is making. thus i can love myself through you, completing the circle.

if i love only myself and concentrate only on my opinions and respect no one else's.
1. i cannot love myself through others.
2. i cannot fully love myself and i love only the part of myself that i contained in this physical form, i.e my body.
this limits my growth, the growth that will take me out of this physical form. and even if i do graduate into 4th and 5th density as a sts, the only way to 6th density is through an individual that is alike me in every way. and the only way to accept this truth is to accept that that individual is also me, thus breaking the veil of separation and accepting the sto path.

love and light,
ra ma

Apophis

11-03-2011, 05:50 PM

then would the movie be a portrayal of the transition from sts to sto?

Jeia Ra Manuk

11-03-2011, 08:13 PM

in a way.
before neo walk up he was already reachning for the path of sto.
but he was no where near sts and did not pertain to the life style of regular stss.
he was close to reaching that 1% over the 50/50 neutral zone. just as the people in the world right now that are literally zombified by the material world.
they are not sts and not sto they are neutral; hanging in the middle, doing only that that the body is asking for.
but neo's thirst for the truth, the same thirst that drives those alike us, in these communities, let him to a greater realization.
and the sacrifice was a redemption.
this is jesus in a futuristic setting.
the machines are the romans, wanting to bend those that are under but also not wanting to destroy themselves in the process.

love and light,
ra ma

Apophis

11-18-2011, 01:18 AM

Apophis

11-18-2011, 07:31 PM

the more i study what was meant by sto and sts the more i can relate it to wants and needs. many people have tricked themselves into focusing on more wants than needs. but let’s look just under the surface. a want is a service to yourself; when you want more things than you need your serving yourself more than anything else. we have very little true needs. we need substance/food and we need a comfortable environment, the ability to create comfort in harsh environments or comfortable environments such as near the equator.

wants turn into needs. we want a big house, well there are many needs that come out of wanting that house. the need to pay a big mortgage, the need to clean several rooms, the need to create comfort in mass, among many other needs we all know about. this is an example of how a want can easily turn into a need.

when we look at needs we can see that to obtain the needs we must do something for others. the usual method of trade in this world is money, therefor money is a need. you must do something for someone else; serve others, to gain those needs. we can purchase/trade money for our wants. and when we have more needs than wants we are saving money! this is because we’ve served others more than we have served ourselves. paying our bills is “proof” that we are serving others. and when we are “scared” into paying our bills, we are really just seeing a catalyst to serve others. but again, so many of us have been tricked into only serving ourselves, that we see it as an attack on our freedoms.

it really discusses me how much of our daily lives are bombarded with messages of serving ourselves. i’ve not allowed a television in my house for several years because i couldn’t handle how often it told me to serve myself. and guess what all those people that are in the occupy movement, yah they are all on a path of self service. it’s another trick, it’s to flush out all those who are very far along the path of self service. ra has said, those who are on a sts path will be placed on a prison like planet, well guess what the fema camps were built for! yah we are going to have to work for other people in order to keep ourselves on the sto path.

so we are required to continue to do things for others and now were being asked to do it in a more balanced way. we are being asked to combine thoughts and actions into a balanced conscious coherent expression, for someone else more than for ourselves. this is the beginning of a community that does not need money. as long as we are dedicated to serving others and can act consciously, in our service we will be fine. there’s no big crazy event that will totally change the world. what there will be are individual conscious decisions to serve the community, which will spiral into a collective expression of the same. we are the change, we are the new species, and our children will be even more advanced than us. this is the time when our future generations will discuss as the end of the old world; a time when they will recognize as a true collective shift. we don’t need any kind of mass public announcement to change our ways. that will come only after the majority is there.

Shin'Ar

03-11-2012, 02:22 PM

Friends,

I will not go into details of how or where I manage the information that I bring to you, but to say that is a source that I have trusted for countless years. Through it I bear thoughts that often blend with my own as I write. I cannot recall a time when I did not have this connection, and I can defintely see the difference between my own writing and the blend.

So I understand channeling very intimately. I am NOT my self. That which many view as self is vastly different than what I perceive. This dimension in which I experience creation in the flesh does not reveal my self as a form of flesh. These incarnations are vehicles of experience only. Temporary and wrought with complications from which we learn and evolve our true identity as the One Consciousness. I am not this temporary identity. I am the field of consciousness that surrounds me.

I was called here from my path to acquire something from the teachings of the Law of One, and as yet, I have been unable to discover what exactly that is. I have been studying the Ra material in order to converse with others who do the same, and I cannot really find anything that I does not compliment my own divine understandings.

What I have found that stands out from everything else is some sort of a darkness prevading over the interpretation of service to self. And I know that this has been debated heavily already in other threads, and that there seems to be no way to come to a concensus on the issue because everyone is entitled to their own opinions. However, this one issue is the one thing that causes me to cringe away from the Law of One teachings, and it is not because it is what Ra teaches, as much as it is how Ra's teachings are misinterpreted.

So without trying to start a debate on the issue which can be found in other threads, I was hoping that I could ask of you to explain to me why it is that those of STS believe that the need to satisfy the flesh should be seen as a means to enhancing their spirit.

I tried to get this information on the Bring4th forums, but it is diffcult to get reasonable responses because they seem to be so defensive about the issue. It seems that in their desire to satisfy the flesh they avoid any questioning of it. The answers are always vague and when asked in deliberation for precise answers, they balk.

Now I am not here to preach what my views on darkness and the flesh are. as I said that has already been done and the problematic clashes of the types is very obvious. What I do seek is understanding so I can discover why it is that I was brought here.

I honestly cannot see how the Ra material teaches that STS is a path that anyone would want to choose to explore. In fact what I gather from the teachings the exact opposite is declared. So can somone point me to the places where these STS practitioners get the idea that darkness is not something of which they should beware.

It has taken me many lifetimes to learn how to understand the dangers of addiction to the flesh and how to grow in spirit. My being led here must have some reason and this seems to be the target for me. There is something here in this teaching of the Ra material with regard to the flesh and the darkness that I am either called to stand against or derive some futher understanding. And since everything else I have learned from the material, I cannot see it as a calling to denounce it.

There is a dark denial taking place in the misinterpretation and I need to explore that.

Thank you for your tolerance.

Apophis

03-14-2012, 03:37 PM

The STS path is one of isolation. Those who serve this path are under the impression that they are the only ones who know the truth.

We can look at the situation we are in, and see that truth is shared among all life. As you may be able to deduce, it is not just this single flesh suit incarnation that is bringing forth the knowledge of the present moment. It takes many to come to the agreement of present life.

Where many get trapped in egotism is in the statement, there is only one of us here.

A STO person realizes that if there is only one of us here, that means other people are me. The one is simultaneously present in every perceived "other self" thus when identifying with the one, we identify with the all.

A STS person realizes that if there is only one of us here, they must be that one. In this state all "other selves" are simply a product of imagination. Unknowingly trapping themselves in the single flesh suit they are in.

A glass of water sitting on a rock overlooking a fresh water stream can identify in two ways. One that they are the same as the flowing water below and that they will one day return to that stream and enjoy the rest of the body that they are. Or two they are the same as the flowing water below and that they will one day control that stream and enjoy being the one who decides where it will flow.

Technically you can alter the flow of a river one glass at a time, but the amount of glasses needed would have to equal the amount of water flowing through the stream itself, at any given point along that stream. A few have been and still are doing this, moving the flow of the stream to a run they wish the water to flow through. But there are two difficulties with that, one is the glasses they are using to transport the stream from one flow to the other will one day break and have to be replaced, or the stream will resume it's natural course, and two the newly formed stream due to there intervention will eventually find it's way back to the natural flow, unless they continuously revert the stream back unto itself or continuously 'readjust' the flow manually. Why someone would go through all this work over lifetimes is beyond me. Maybe it's someones misguided attempt to prove that water can flow unnaturally.