No one survives ?

[HalexandriaAngel]

i know i have heard david wilcox talk about the upcoming 2012/2011 issue and i got the impression that it would be bad but not too terrible, and that apparently some of us would be living through this to bring in the 4th density.

i saw this in the ra material, and it sure does not sound to me like we will be living through anything based on that. does he know something we don't or am i taking this out of context or too literal and david has it right?

63.25 questioner: then at some time in the future the fourth-density sphere will be fully activated. what is the difference between full activation and partial activation for this sphere?

ra: i am ra. at this time the cosmic influxes are conducive to true color green core particles being formed and material of this nature thus being formed. however, there is a mixture of the yellow-ray and green-ray environments at this time necessitating the birthing of transitional mind/body/spirit complex types of energy distortions. at full activation of the true color green density of love the planetary sphere will be solid and inhabitable upon its own and the birthing that takes place will have been transformed through the process of time, shall we say, to the appropriate type of vehicle to appreciate in full the fourth-density planetary environment. at this nexus the green-ray environment exists to a far greater extent in time/space than in space/time.

[evolving]

i know i have heard david wilcox talk about the upcoming 2012/2011 issue and i got the impression that it would be bad but not too terrible, and that apparently some of us would be living through this to bring in the 4th density.

i saw this in the ra material, and it sure does not sound to me like we will be living through anything based on that. does he know something we don't or am i taking this out of context or too literal and david has it right?

63.25 questioner: then at some time in the future the fourth-density sphere will be fully activated. what is the difference between full activation and partial activation for this sphere?

ra: i am ra. at this time the cosmic influxes are conducive to true color green core particles being formed and material of this nature thus being formed. however, there is a mixture of the yellow-ray and green-ray environments at this time necessitating the birthing of transitional mind/body/spirit complex types of energy distortions. at full activation of the true color green density of love the planetary sphere will be solid and inhabitable upon its own and the birthing that takes place will have been transformed through the process of time, shall we say, to the appropriate type of vehicle to appreciate in full the fourth-density planetary environment. at this nexus the green-ray environment exists to a far greater extent in time/space than in space/time.

dearest halexandriaangel,

define "survives"...
define "living"...

all will survive, though not in this particular 3rd density illusion. we are but spirits having a human experience, already billions of years old, and some have been gaining incarnate experiences in the 3rd density for more than 100,000 years already. though this physical body will not remain, our spirit will live infinitely.

those with duel activated bodies will remain, but will undergo a process whereby they leave the body and are returned to it again, though the body they return to is not the same. it might look the same, but it will be denser, more full of light, and of a higher vibration.

there is nothing to fear. we did not fear being born, which is much more difficult to do than dying. we will not suffer during the process of harvest, and we won't be frightened, nor will we have reason to be. harvest will be a pleasant experience, much like going to sleep and waking up, only waking up, in this case, might be a little confusing, but there is much assistance for each and every one of us. removing any trauma from the experience will make the process much more orderly and quicker, and thus it will be so.

this is something to look forward to, in all cases. irregardless of whether one ascends or not, the negativity of this plane will be left behind, and a fresh beginning will be available.

personally, i feel like a child anxiously waiting for christmas, but performing my service to others faithfully and with joy. i am also enjoying the 4d light, and all the experiences and changes that come with it. i feel honored to be part of this process at this time, and thank the one creator for allowing me such experience.

i hope you can find solace in what i say here. have no fear. live and love and enjoy every day. these are some of the reasons you are here.

[RayneboWolf]

could it be that ra is talking about an inter dependant co existance involving us and gaia intrinsicly bound and working to support eachother and without that bond we cannot exist ?.then if so you need not be concerned because the upgrades are being sent for us to take in anyway but we must be aware and prepareand be open to the cosmic cal.all the essential information is being supplied for us and gaia to survive the shift genetically and spiritually.am i following your train of thought or am i just rambling in another direction? lol
i know i have heard david wilcox talk about the upcoming 2012/2011 issue and i got the impression that it would be bad but not too terrible, and that apparently some of us would be living through this to bring in the 4th density.

i saw this in the ra material, and it sure does not sound to me like we will be living through anything based on that. does he know something we don't or am i taking this out of context or too literal and david has it right?

63.25 questioner: then at some time in the future the fourth-density sphere will be fully activated. what is the difference between full activation and partial activation for this sphere?

ra: i am ra. at this time the cosmic influxes are conducive to true color green core particles being formed and material of this nature thus being formed. however, there is a mixture of the yellow-ray and green-ray environments at this time necessitating the birthing of transitional mind/body/spirit complex types of energy distortions. at full activation of the true color green density of love the planetary sphere will be solid and inhabitable upon its own and the birthing that takes place will have been transformed through the process of time, shall we say, to the appropriate type of vehicle to appreciate in full the fourth-density planetary environment. at this nexus the green-ray environment exists to a far greater extent in time/space than in space/time.

[capt.libra]

evolving, iam under the impression that our 4d bodies would be lighter not denser but i agree with everything else you said.

[evolving]

evolving, iam under the impression that our 4d bodies would be lighter not denser but i agree with everything else you said.

i believe you are using your understanding as to the illusion of gravity, where denser means being heavier, and less dense means being lighter.

two statements by ra about the 4th density:

16.44 ra: ... it is not of heavy chemical vehicles for body complex activities.
... it is a plane of type of bipedal vehicle which is much denser and more full of life
this means that the 4th density is not of the illusion of flesh as we perceive it now, but is denser, not in a gravitational sense, but in the sense of being more full of light. each increasing "density" is being of increased light. because the light is more pure and with less distortion.

[HalexandriaAngel]

thank you, i am understanding quite well what is being conveyed here. my point is i don't understand why david w. is telling people things that are not completely honest. we all will suffer the 3rd density death, and quite soon in our estimation. if we were given the honor/duty to usher in the 4th density on a completely uninhabitable to 3rd density planet, then yes we will likely die and then wake. fetched with some inconvenience keeps ringing in my head. ya think? hehe ughh. i think it is wrong to give people a false sense of hope to survive, when apparently the philosophy he "lives by" is clear that they will not. people really believe what he sells them, and although it is his cross to bare i thought perhaps i missed something and was hoping to be given some great news. it is better to say nothing than to be anything other than completely honest. ra says blah blah , but i say.. blah blah would be the best way.

i have a child and people have lives and well i just am uncomfortable with the thought .

thanks for being so kind and giving with your responses. they were in truth and came with much love and compassion. this is all that we need , david of all people should be representing this material honestly when asked. :confused:

[capt.libra]

thanks, put that way it makes sense.
namaste'

[evolving]

thank you, i am understanding quite well what is being conveyed here. my point is i don't understand why david w. is telling people things that are not completely honest. we all will suffer the 3rd density death, and quite soon in our estimation. if we were given the honor/duty to usher in the 4th density on a completely uninhabitable to 3rd density planet, then yes we will likely die and then wake. fetched with some inconvenience keeps ringing in my head. ya think? hehe ughh. i think it is wrong to give people a false sense of hope to survive, when apparently the philosophy he "lives by" is clear that they will not. people really believe what he sells them, and although it is his cross to bare i thought perhaps i missed something and was hoping to be given some great news. it is better to say nothing than to be anything other than completely honest. ra says blah blah , but i say.. blah blah would be the best way.

dearest halexandriaangel,

this is a difficult response to write, because i understand your feelings, why you have those feelings, and what they do to you. please consider what i am about to tell you carefully. i only speak the truth, and only hoped to convey to you an understanding of that which will occur, so that you do not fear it. what david tells is the truth, with the fear mongering left out. david delivers only the great news... he gives hope of what is to come, and i feel the same way he does. the reason he does not tell the story the way that i just have is that many will find reason to fear this, as you put it, "suffer the 3rd density death". to david, as well as myself, these 3rd density physical bodies unviability is not the end, or something to fear at all, but the beginning of something new, something exciting, something we have worked for, sacrificed for, and toiled for, all in the name of a love so great we can only, if very lucky, touch it at its core a few times in a 3rd density lifetime. if you can think back to those moments of pure love, try to understand you will feel that all the time in 4d!

david, being in the public light, has a great responsibility is to a large number of people, and proclaiming (even quietly) "we are all going to die" will not convey what needs to be conveyed. hollywood and the media do well enough at conveying that unjustifiable fear already. what david and others, including myself, understand is... how we approach this is as important as how we approach the birth of a child. we must look forward to it, basking in the infinite possibilities of it, and reveling in the beauty of such an amazing event. the end of this 3rd density is, for many, as the birth into the 4th density. what a glorious thing this is! there is and should be no suffering; only joy, for this is the grand finale to the greatest show thus far on earth, and we have been the principle players! onward to the next bigger stage!


i have a child and people have lives and well i just am uncomfortable with the thought .

i overwhelmingly understand this. i have a 17 month old daughter who i changed my life for, my very understanding of being for, in this incarnation. i have family, and friends, and loved ones also. as much as i desire to tell them what will transpire, i think it is probably better to tell them nothing.

know that you are supposed to feel the way you do. we were designed by the logos using the bipedal ape mind/body, and thus have the instincts of the ape. we instinctively strive to self preserve, and to preserve the life of those of our families and our clan. what i would like you to consider now, is that before we were in these mind/bodies of apes, which in this illusion become mind/body/spirit complexes, we were only spirits first, and when the illusion is gone, we will be spirits again.

at this point, because you must decide what to do yourself, i can only tell you what i wish to do, and you may accordingly seek what you wish to do.

what i strive to do is to overcome the limitations of the ape, and become closer to that which i truly am, a benevolent loving spirit in touch with the one creator and all of creation. as a spirit, i will understand that this was but an illusion, and when it is finished, i will know more joy and love than i can possibly know, have known, or will know here in this illusion, and that everyone i have ever loved will be a mere thought away from me. there will be no suffering, no fear of death, no bills, no taxes, no fear, no worries, no arguments, no fights... the list goes on and on and on. wait... because i am a spirit, i can do this now! i simply must release the ape instincts, have faith, and that faith will release me from fear, worry, and distress. i am set free, as will be my daughter. no one or thing has control over me but myself, including death. it is for me to decide how i face all things.


thanks for being so kind and giving with your responses. they were in truth and came with much love and compassion. this is all that we need , david of all people should be representing this material honestly when asked. :confused:

you are most welcome for my responses. i enjoy being of service.

i only hope you may understand the burden which is upon the shoulders of david, and that he does what is best for the many. his position and even the smallest mistake or flaw make it easy to criticism him, yet do not judge him harshly. send him your love, for he has helped, and will help many, including myself, move forward on our path. he was been as an instrumental stepping stone on my advancement to enlightenment, and were it not for him, i would not be where i am. i give him great thanks, and i hope you can find it in your heart to do the same.


thanks, put that way it makes sense.
namaste'

dearest cpt.libra

you are most welcome. it is a pleasant experience when i can make sense :d as i do not always do so!!! :rolleyes:

[Matthew Clark]

also a big thank you from me - i enjoyed reading those posts.

you really are a clever one arnt you. ;)

god bless my friend.

matt :)

[capt.libra]

a 17 month old daughter, what a blessing for all three of you! sending love and light

[evolving]

also a big thank you from me - i enjoyed reading those posts.

you really are a clever one arnt you. ;)

god bless my friend.

matt :)

dearest mathew,

i accept your gracious thanks, but must say that i am only as clever as we all are, and as thus cannot accept your compliment. the acceptance of such requires pride, and i have chosen to have such vanities removed from my incarnate experience.

i only seek to be a humble voice of love and light, and if any credit for anything is due, it is to our father the one infinite creator. he is all that we are, and we are all that he is, and for such i give thanks.

may god bless you too my brother. i have seen a change in you in the last months, one i much admire and respect. you do well to use the catalyst given to you, and it shows :)

[evolving]

a 17 month old daughter, what a blessing for all three of you! sending love and light

a blessing indeed, even if there are but the two of us. my daughter's mother is a crack addict, and as thus is "out of the picture". though i always have hope and love for her, she continues on her path.

thank you for the love and light. it truly helps us, and i feel it each time such love is sent. my heart becomes more aglow each and every day.

[Daune]

dear evolving,

thank you so much for your reply to halexandriaangel. in replying to her you have answered a question i have had for a while that being how can so many look at the data surrounding 2012 and come up with polor opposite views. one being the end of life and the other being the begining of life as we know it. i can now say i do not fear death for it is an awakining to a new dimension. clothed in light awaiting our coming together with the one creator.

[Deambor]

dearest halexandriaangel,

there is nothing to fear. we did not fear being born, which is much more difficult to do than dying. we will not suffer during the process of harvest, and we won't be frightened, nor will we have reason to be. harvest will be a pleasant experience, much like going to sleep and waking up, only waking up, in this case, might be a little confusing, but there is much assistance for each and every one of us. removing any trauma from the experience will make the process much more orderly and quicker, and thus it will be so.

this is something to look forward to, in all cases. irregardless of whether one ascends or not, the negativity of this plane will be left behind, and a fresh beginning will be available.

personally, i feel like a child anxiously waiting for christmas

bravo, evolving!

i 100% share your anticipation. it must be said that there are very substantial post ra channelings through carla, including very recent ones. it's good to remember that the situation is continually changing. what looked like inevitable 3d death from the point of view of ra back in our 80s, doesn't look so any longer from the point of view of q'uo in the 2000-2009. as they said, the situation on the sphear has changed to the extent that the probability is very high that we don't have to experience physical death.
i'm no prophet by any stretch of imagination, but i do have a very profound dreams from time to time and i did have one, which i believe was about 2012 shift. and it was exactly as you put it, evolving: we wake up as if on a regular winter day (very snowy, mind you, me being in north east of us), but very soon realize that even though it seems the same regular winter morning at first site, it's not - it feels different, much lighter (heavier by ra measurements) existence, able to create by thought, manipulate space etc. and yes - there is an appearance of a helper, as i understand each family gets one, whose task is to explain how everything functions now, and that - yes - you don;t have to go to work, or to worry about things like food etc.. and yes - there are, quite literally, lots of christmas presents just showing up for us (not sure if these were a product of my thoughts - most likely). and the undiscribable beauty of the snow outside, and most importantly, the ease of existence. hard to describe, but believe me - you'll feel like the burden is lifted off you.
it's worth waiting for - believe me.

in the meantime - love and be loved.

deambor

[DFS]

hello, halexandriaangel,

no one survives ?

i was struck by your question and found myself considering its implications. evolving did a very nice reply to the thrust of your original post. what i offer are not really intended as answers but as thoughts for consideration. they are not really about your specific concerns. they are simply some thoughts on the issue of survival.

first, i would note that the question expresses the concerns of the persona or ego-self, which is programmed to survive. we have, by agreement, forgotten that we are divine beings of light who have entered into this 3d experience in order to learn how to love, and despite our social conditioning, it's not a one-shot pass-or-fail situation. we get as many opportunities to learn as are necessary. no one fails or loses or ceases to exist if they do not get it right.

thus, our 3d life experiences are not about survival. if they were,all the masters who came to teach and show the way would have been preaching and teaching survival. some of those masters would be hundreds, perhaps thousands of years old and would be proclaiming, "follow my teachings and you can do as i have done."

don't get me wrong. as a persona with a definite ego-self, i do not find the prospect of dying to be an attractive option. but, all those spiritual masters who have come to show us the true intent of 3d experiences have all lived and died. their messages and lives were not about survival.

in session 95, question 26, ra implies that it's service to self folks who are most concerned about staying alive in 3d.
questioner:
am i to understand, then, that there is no protection at all if the experience of
the mind has chosen the left-hand path and that path is traveled? all random catalyst
may affect the negatively polarized individual as a function of the statistical nature
of the random catalyst. is this correct?
ra:
i am ra. this is correct. you may note some of those of your peoples which, at this
space/time nexus, seek places of survival. this is due to the lack of protection when service to self is invoked.
******
one assumes that if one is seeking to assist others to survive, this would be considered as sto rather than sts. still, it does make one wonder about those individuals who predict dire outcomes and then urge others to seek out ""safe places" and to prepare with an eye to surviving the predicted chaos.

as form my ego-self not wanting to die, if one can expand one's view to that of the all-i or total-self, one can intellectually grasp that dying is simply one phase of the #3d experience. truly grasping this understanding on an emotional level is another matter. <smile>

thanks for your post and your most thought provoking question. sorry that i could not offer any magic wand or all-purpose answers. <wry shrug>

dfs

[Hummingbird]

i understand "ascension" in the context of 2012 (it's actually occurring right now, as we speak) to be an unprecedented happening in the history of the cosmos. it is unprecedented because we will be ascending to our appropriate stations based on our distinct vibratory signature (4d, 5d, etc.) without the necessity of the death experience. as the 3d matrix continues its break down, it can no longer hold us back from the natural magnetic migration to the vibratory experience that matches our heart frequency. many years have passed since the law of one channelings and humanity has moved far closer to sto orientation than was anticipated at the time the law of one was channeled.

i fully expect to seamlessly integrate into a new "timeline," so to speak, of 5th or 6th density existence without experiencing any calamity or illusion of death. the transition will be so smooth that there will not be any consciousness of a particular transitional event, but the realization will come as i begin to notice that my experience has transcended physical, 3d laws. frankly, many of us are transcending at the present time. the increased prevalence of synchronistic happenings is a testament to this fact. do not fear calamity. if the 3d illusion is to cease to exist, and 3d is not your natural vibratory heart frequency, you will not remain on the 3d timeline and will not experience the illusion of calamity.

[HalexandriaAngel]

evolving.

you write beautifully, and with clear thought, easily understandable.

i want you to know that i have thrown off the ape long ago. i am an old soul, on a planet i have never felt like i belonged, embraced the situation, and have counseled hundreds. i am here to help with this transformation, and i am quite happy to die to be honest. i just want to make sure i live until i have helped as many as i can . that is my purpose, my gift, and my joy. it is not my inability to accept what is to come that is not the issue. not everyone will be going to a better time, most will be doing this all over again, for the record. i speak for the general public. fully aware of the position david has chosen to place himself in.

you are correct in saying that david can not go around saying "we are all going to die". however, it is still not correct to misrepresent facts , with scenarios that give false hope for a survival. here is why, and also what grave consequences are now possible as a result. you see, there is truth in how this information is given to others is important. the reason for that importance is because this is catalyst, and of the strongest kind. we who have read and then chosen to believe this most awesome material in the ra information, have the luxury to understand this is not the final death. that we have many lives and can even choose to come back to this density if we are among the few that are harvest ready.

however, the public that david is speaking to, cannot be assumed to have a belief in reincarnation. this too is not the point however. the point is that they still deserve an honest representation, to hear the truth, and be allowed the right to react or handle the truth any way they please. what david is robbing them of is the chance to have this unique catalyst do its full and complete work for these people., who may have gained whatever it was they needed to join us in harvest. the need to survive is a key point to learning in 3rd density. now they have been given hope of survival , when if they had not , they may have been able to look at things from a higher level of acceptance and new vibration as a result of that acceptance.

this is the betrayal of our leaders, and david has fallen into a similar trap. we deserve to know the truth as our public figures see it. the last thing he should be doing, especially at this point, is taking away the very last chance we have at catalyst of this proportion. does he know better for us? truth is what we need and if we choose to be public figures then the awesome responsibility of that must be done with the highest integrity and purest of truth, as we believe it to be.

we have everything we need already inside of us. let us be free to hear the truth as it stands. we are human , we can take it better than most people understand. if they can't handle it , then we will be here to help them, that's what we came to do. let us give these people the best opportunity. it is a difficult position for him to have placed himself in. that was his choice. delicate to balance something as violent as this. it requires him to put himself out on the line. it requires conviction of belief , and if he wanted to avoid that , then say little at all. to sugar coat or give false hopes brings dishonor to the mighty gift of this material and to the power in all of us to embrace truth.

the fact is that we do not know for sure that any of this will actually be our fate. it is not of the 3rd density to know, per ra hehe... however, that point is not what he is pushing is it? if you are going to be out there pushing, it, you best be an honest and straight forword attempt. that is the point of my concerns. give us a chance to do our jobs, we are here to help. many, many have sacrificed, at great personal risk, to be here to help them.

thank you for listening. i appreciate your love and light. xx

[HalexandriaAngel]

i fully expect to seamlessly integrate into a new "timeline," so to speak, of 5th or 6th density existence without experiencing any calamity or illusion of death. the transition will be so smooth that there will not be any consciousness of a particular transitional event, but the realization will come as i begin to notice that my experience has transcended physical, 3d laws. frankly, many of us are transcending at the present time. the increased prevalence of synchronistic happenings is a testament to this fact. do not fear calamity. if the 3d illusion is to cease to exist, and 3d is not your natural vibratory heart frequency, you will not remain on the 3d timeline and will not experience the illusion of calamity.

hummingbird,

63.14 questioner: you are saying, then, that for the transition from third to fourth-density for one of the entities with doubly activated bodies, in order to make the transition the third-density body will go through the process of what we call death. is this correct?

ra: i am ra. the third and fourth, combination, density’s body will die according to the necessity of third-density mind/body/spirit complex distortions.

we may respond to the heart of your question by noting that the purpose of such combined activation of mind/body/spirit complexes is that such entities, to some extent, conscientiously are aware of those fourth-density understandings which third-density is unable to remember due to the forgetting. thus fourth-density experience may be begun with the added attraction to an entity oriented toward service-to-others of dwelling in a troubled third-density environment and offering its love and compassion.

[evolving]

dearest halexandriaangel,

this is to be another long and difficult response requiring carefully wording. you have brought up many points. please understand, a few things i say may be uncomfortable, but that i only say such to provoke thought; not anger or resentment.

i am not going to champion david's in defence too much, as i do not believe i need to. he is a beacon of light for those that seek, and he offers the positive in a way which benefits the many without causing fear. only those that seek are wanderers, and as thus his intention is pure. he need not try to help the general masses that do not seek, for they do not desire his help.

again, you make your own decisions. please keep what resonates with you, and let the rest fall away.



i want you to know that i have thrown off the ape long ago. i am an old soul, on a planet i have never felt like i belonged, embraced the situation, and have counseled hundreds. i am here to help with this transformation, and i am quite happy to die to be honest. i just want to make sure i live until i have helped as many as i can . that is my purpose, my gift, and my joy. it is not my inability to accept what is to come that is not the issue. not everyone will be going to a better time, most will be doing this all over again, for the record. i speak for the general public. fully aware of the position david has chosen to place himself in.
if i may ask, what special power or ability did the one creator give you that allows you to speak for the "general public", all people? although we are all part of the one creator, it is not our place to be too godlike in this illusion. you are correct that everyone will not be going to a "better time" , but they will be going where they desire to go. this is the first distortion, free will. these people are not wandering aimlessly. they have contracted to be where they are and to do what they do, just as you and i have done.

to quote q'uo february 11, 2007


when the time lateral ends and those who are still breathing third-density air upon earth are still around to pick up the pieces—which you are already doing, my friends—those who were not able to make the transition with you will all have been picked up as they enter larger life through the gates of death and with infinite care, cherished and supported through their own process of discovering what lay behind the veil of forgetting. they will be given every chance to consider their lives and what they wish to do next. they will go to a third-density planet somewhere that is not earth and they will take up the third-density classroom once again, attempting to learn to make that choice and to set the intention not just for third density but for so many densities to come, all the way through the middle of sixth density.

if they fail to learn what they need to, they will be given the opportunity to continue to work at it. this is not lke school where one can "get away with" missing certain things. in order to become one with the one creator again, all distortion must be removed. all must be experienced. this is another reason that higher density beings step down to the 3rd density. this density is, simply, the fastest way to use catalyst and remove distortion. what we may consider a long time is like going back to school for a ten second refresher, like reading a quote in a book you like; nothing too strenuous, but required if one wishes to "get it right". this is but an illusion designed for us to learn, and another 75,000 years is like reading another ten seconds, reading one more line in a book. nothing too strenuous.


you are correct in saying that david can not go around saying "we are all going to die". however, it is still not correct to misrepresent facts , with scenarios that give false hope for a survival. here is why, and also what grave consequences are now possible as a result. you see, there is truth in how this information is given to others is important. the reason for that importance is because this is catalyst, and of the strongest kind. we who have read and then chosen to believe this most awesome material in the ra information, have the luxury to understand this is not the final death. that we have many lives and can even choose to come back to this density if we are among the few that are harvest ready.

i'm sorry dear, but all i see in the above two statements is the instinct of the great ape. what i understand you as wanting to do is wake everyone and tell them what is coming so that they can make their decision and work towards ascension.

my instincts, firstly as an ape, and then as a wanderer, also cry out to do the same. less than two months ago i was of the belief that if only i could do something in a big way, i could help millions. what i have learned since then is that it simply is not my place to do so. if i may quote ra:


46.7 ra: ...control is the key to negatively polarized use of catalyst. acceptance is the key to positively polarized use of catalyst.and as thus, waking people, alarming them, is trying to control the situation of all.

i agree that being a shepherd is a positive thing, but this must apply only to those that seek to be guided. i find humor in this term shepherd, since one of the new terminologies for unawakened people is sheeple... and yet each sheeple is in their own illusion of their own making, and if they are ready to seek and understand at a higher level, then i am more than willing to help them do so. alternately, if they are not ready, it is not my place to "wake" them, for they simply are not ready to wake. i choose to think of them like sleeping bears. it does more harm to wake them than it does to allow them to wake when the time is right.

i understand that there are but a few wanderers here, numbering at most a few hundred million. i would believe you are also a wanderer, seeing that you also have a strong desire to serve. that means that the other six and a half billion + are here not to help in the harvest, but to experience and learn on each their own path. it is through this learning and experience that they remove distortion from their being and move closer to being at one with the one creator.

they are but our younger siblings, and is it our place to slam their fingers in the drawer so that they may learn according to our wishes? or, do we allow them to explore and catch their fingers in the drawer by themselves? the one way they will learn that we are malevolent. the other way they will simply learn on their own.

i often chuckle at the saying "learn from other's mistakes; you don't have time to make them all yourself". this is wrong. we have all the time we need.


however, the public that david is speaking to, cannot be assumed to have a belief in reincarnation. this too is not the point however. the point is that they still deserve an honest representation, to hear the truth, and be allowed the right to react or handle the truth any way they please. what david is robbing them of is the chance to have this unique catalyst do its full and complete work for these people., who may have gained whatever it was they needed to join us in harvest. the need to survive is a key point to learning in 3rd density. now they have been given hope of survival , when if they had not , they may have been able to look at things from a higher level of acceptance and new vibration as a result of that acceptance.
there is not only "hope for survival', we do all survive, infinitely. david pours the concrete foundation. what a person builds on it is up to them. it is not davids, nor yours, nor my responsibility to do the work of the entire world. it is up to each individually to make their own choices.


this is the betrayal of our leaders, and david has fallen into a similar trap. we deserve to know the truth as our public figures see it. the last thing he should be doing, especially at this point, is taking away the very last chance we have at catalyst of this proportion. does he know better for us? truth is what we need and if we choose to be public figures then the awesome responsibility of that must be done with the highest integrity and purest of truth, as we believe it to be.
do you know better? do i? what is the truth? if you hit people over the head with it, will they recognize it? if you put it in their shoes, will it make it uncomfortable for them to walk? there is but only one truth dearest, and that is the law of one. all else are distortions.

each of us is here in our own part of the illusion, on our own path, and we all have lessons which we have worked towards learning in this incarnation. is it for you or me to tell them what we know so that they may learn it? i would dare say not, as this clearly interferes with their advancement at their own speed. perhaps the goal they set was in facing death, and nothing more. without knowledge of the loo, they will meet that death as per the guidelines of the lessons which they desire to learn prior to their incarnate experience. with our interference, they will not.


we have everything we need already inside of us. let us be free to hear the truth as it stands. we are human , we can take it better than most people understand. if they can't handle it , then we will be here to help them, that's what we came to do. let us give these people the best opportunity. it is a difficult position for him to have placed himself in. that was his choice. delicate to balance something as violent as this. it requires him to put himself out on the line. it requires conviction of belief , and if he wanted to avoid that , then say little at all. to sugar coat or give false hopes brings dishonor to the mighty gift of this material and to the power in all of us to embrace truth.
i hope you would consider that if they are not ready to hear it, it will only cause them to fear greatly and perhaps fail to ascend because they concentrate on that which they would not have concentrated on. you desire to make judgment on that which need not be judged.


the fact is that we do not know for sure that any of this will actually be our fate. it is not of the 3rd density to know, per ra hehe... however, that point is not what he is pushing is it? if you are going to be out there pushing, it, you best be an honest and straight forword attempt. that is the point of my concerns. give us a chance to do our jobs, we are here to help. many, many have sacrificed, at great personal risk, to be here to help them.

i do not believe david is pushing anything. it was of our free will that we watched david on a video, or read his material. he provides his ideas and understanding in a thoughtful, scientific, and innovative way. he pushes nothing; he only offers for those that seek. we are seekers. all else are not.

i would ask you to consider that what we do is as a double edged sword. it may help directed in one way, and yet harm when directed the other way, and yet there is no telling which way the swing is directed because we are in the dark. do we choose to dangerously swing our sword, or to have faith in our creator?

again, i see that this does not sit comfortably with you. you talk of these events as 'facts that we do not know for sure... will be our fate". this appears to me to be a catalyst for you, in that sometime you will have to decide to either continue using the ape instincts which you clearly show though logically deny, or simply accept everything as being perfect and move into that place of faith.

truly, whether we live or die in in this transformational event is unimportant, as that has less significance in our infinite spiritual evolution than the closing of a door. what is important is the event itself.


thank you for listening. i appreciate your love and light. xx i hope you can find solace in my words dearest, and that you may find that which you seek. i see in you part of me, for we are one and the same. if i may suggest, perhaps you might consider gaining knowledge in that of the rays (chakras), and to work on gaining a balance. i would believe that although you have a strong green ray emanation, you may need significant work in the area of the orange ray. i say this because i have had to work on balancing my rays, and specifically worked much on my orange ray for sometime. i have within the last few weeks achieved the balance i seek, and i would wish the same for you.

love and light.

[capt.libra]

maybe i'm all wet but when we move from a 3d body to a 4d body one of them has to go. so yes the 3d body dies. yet this is different than normal death. i see it as more like changing a coat and there will be a guide holding the coat for anyone not prefroming their misson seamlessly. i'm 60 years old and doing much better than most my age. but give me a new 4d body i won't need anyones help.
namaste"

[billybobbutterball]

hi everyone! bbb here

the old guy, capt libra, is right on.:cool:

i'm continually amazed by those with spiritual leanings who seem to be so overly concerned about taking along "their" body. ( i put quotes around the term,"their" in deference to the fact that it is merely a borrowed second density vehicle that we might rightly call a 'meat suit'.)-- the actual owners are some 50 trillion intelligent cells who make up its substance and run maintenance on themselves....also involved is a hugish symbiotic crowd of bacteria who lend their vital substance in making it work. ( see bruce lipton's "biology of belief") but do remember your lessee agreement...you have to respect it and take care of it! it does requires high maintenance to keep it functioning....remember, it doesn't belong to you so don't abuse it

these meat suits we inhabit are marvelous biologic instruments designed to support our spiritual adventure lessons...in fact they are much admired and lusted after by 3-ds across the milky way.

but sometimes being too good is not good when the lessee's of these mighty devices misuse it to lord over others who are wearing last age's out of fashion apparel (for some insights on this please google scott mandleker's site and read the chapters on east-west studies)

let me pull my brain together here...oh, yeah. bodies. every 7 years the body is completely rebuilt from new materials...to take our body along should that also include all the elements that got dropped along the wayside? (icky!) and what about our three-year old body? ten years old? what the heck happened to them on the way? did they die on us?? they certainly aren't here now! but truthfully, have you really missed them? most likely you were only too anxious to move along and leave them behind as mere curiosity items in a photo album.

no. we can't take earthly model bodies with us...they cannot survive outside of the 3rd density they were designed for.....and thus it goes such from density/ dimension to density/dimension... as i understand it we have 7 or so ethereal bods.

now i must state with conviction that i'm not particularly afraid of "dying"...the only caveat i have is that i just don't want to be there :eek: when it happens (smart-alec remark stolen from woody allen)

i would like to put in a plug for my favorite nde which is that of mellen thomas benedict. just google for a great read...it was most helpful to me before i encountered the ra material study guide (available here on d.c.) from the encounter he had and the information he gathered i suspect that he is a fifth or sixth density wanderer.

thanks for your kind attention...i hope i have been more of a help than a hindrance,,,in any case use only that which resonates, and any part that doesn't...just dis.....no! stop right there! come to think of it you better not discard even a punctuation mark! i worked hard on this and any trash-canning would really hurt my feelings!:p

best,,, bbb aka billybobbutterball :d





maybe i'm all wet but when we move from a 3d body to a 4d body one of them has to go. so yes the 3d body dies. yet this is different than normal death. i see it as more like changing a coat and there will be a guide holding the coat for anyone not prefroming their misson seamlessly. i'm 60 years old and doing much better than most my age. but give me a new 4d body i won't need anyones help.
namaste"

[Hummingbird]

our physical body is an illusion. our only "reality" is the "twenty-watt bulb"--our consciousness-- as explained in the article below by robert lanza, m.d. our consciousness is immortal. the timeline concept helps explain why our transition from one experience to another is seamless. our life, or existence, is never interrupted--even for a moment--by the so-called "death" of the body.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-lanza/does-death-exist-new-theo_b_384515.html

[DFS]

halexandriaangel wrote:
it is not of the 3rd density to know, per ra hehe... however, that point is not what
he is pushing is it? if you are going to be out there pushing, it, you best be an
honest and straight forword attempt. that is the point of my concerns. give us a
chance to do our jobs, we are here to help. many, many have sacrificed, at great
personal risk, to be here to help them.
thank you for listening. i appreciate your love and light. xx
****

i empathize with your concerns about integrity and honesty, and with your desire to do the work you came to do. you are speaking as a wanderer or volunteer and from a higher stage of consciousness. thus, when you state that your concern is for the ordinary individuals, i accept this is your intent, but would point out that we all interpret our experiences in terms of our stage of consciousness. you are clearly working out of a worldcentric or kosmocentric stage of development, and according to integral philosopher, ken wilber, these are inclusive, pluralistic stages.

wilber asserts that 70% of the planetary population are working out of an ethnocentric stage of development or lower. in other words, ordinary folks on this planet tend to interpret their experiences in terms of "we" - the peer group, the tribe, ethnic group, nation or race. it's exclusive rather than inclusive and often manifests as "us versus them." they want fixed givens and prefer to rely on trusted authorities to provide those givens. this includes those who think of themselves as rationalistic and scientific but are, in fact, quite ethnocentric.

according to wilber, the evidence that people interpret experiences, including higher, altered states of consciousness, in terms of their stage of development is overwhelming. he says that one can experience a higher state of consciousness - an insight, revelation or even cosmic consciousness - at any stage of development, but upon returning to their waking state, they will interpret this higher state in terms of their stage of consciousness. a nazi could achieve cosmic consciousness, but he would interpret it in terms of his ethnocentric nazi stage of development.

here's the rub. if one has experienced higher states of consciousness and has evolved a solid understanding of the meaning and implications of those higher states, how might that person effectively convey his understanding to others? in short order, he will discover that his audience will hear what they want to hear, or more precisely, will interpret what they hear in terms of their stage of consciousness. how, then, can he present his insights in a manner that actually communicates some of his understanding to a majority of his audience?

jesus used parables, knowing that his listeners would grasp the level of the parable that made sense to them. most would hear only the superficial, but a few would see the deeper meaning..

david wilcock employs data points complete with sources to convey his key concepts. many of his listeners will retain only a few of his points, but hopefully, they will be able to fit these points into their interpretation of his message.for many, all they will take away is a sense of the tone of david's message, which is why i believe he works so hard to establish and maintain a positive tone. if he spent an hour establishing his points and his positive tone and then explained that to ascend to this new higher density, we all have to die, the dying would be all most of them heard, and they would interpret it as some sort of cataclysm.

ordinary, ethnocentric folks may be able to handle the truth, but they will almost always handle it in terms of their present stage of consciousness. <sad smile>

which is more likely to generate karma? choosing to gloss over scary possibility/probabilities or truth telling that induces mindless fear? dw has elected to focus on the positive possibility/probabilities with the hope that those who are ready to hear will be motivated to check sources and to eventually understand that ascension will likely require a transition similar to death. if i were in david's position, i believe i would make the same choice. <hopeful smile>

btw, here's an example of stages in action you may recognize. a seeker gathers odd bits of data and follows cryptic leads until one day, he has a revelation, an altered, higher state experience. he returns to his waking self and thinks, "this is amazing. it's dangerous and awful. i must warn people, must wake them up."

he mounts his trusty steed and gallops about, crying, "the reptilians are coming. the reptilians are coming."

if questioned about his message, he will say, "i know it's negative and scary, but i have to wake people up. if they don't know what is really going on, they can't fight back," which is a classic us-versus-them, ethnocentric interpretation and reaction. he is simply unable to make the leap to a higher, worldcentric view. his revelation and duty are clear, and henceforth, all new data must be cast to conform with his revealed truth.

so, when disclosure occurs, do not expect the fear porn crowd to alter their versions of events. unless disclosure magically elevates their level of consciousness, they will simply recast the disclosure to hold up as further proof that they are right and everyone else clearly wrong. <sly wink>

dfs

[MarkM]

for what it's worth, here's an observation that i have gathered regarding david's take on the issue. remember when david told us of the incident in which an entire planeload of people encountered a super-energetic hyper-dimensional 'portal' wherein the plane flipped over into time/space (analogous to the after-life plane of existence) and were lost to ground control for a period of 10 minutes?

effectively, there was a 10 minute period where all these people did not exist in our normal space/time continuum. one might well make the philosophical argument that these people were literally deceased - dead, (although no dead bodies were left behind) no longer in the land of the living, so to speak.

one may also argue that they took their bodies with them when they passed over, considering that they all returned safe and sound - even though they had no experience of any missing time or anything weird or unusual having happened, considering they were literally gone for a 10 minute timeframe. all their watches and the plane's chronometer were 10 minutes slow, as it was found after the plane landed.

the concept of 'death' when visited under hyper-dimensional circumstance becomes a purely semantic exercise. david has said that he believes that the whole planet and all aboard is approaching a high-frequencied enough energetic point where it flips over into time/space for good, and the experience of those still learning 3d lessons will be a seamless passage to a place wherein they 'reload the matrix', so to speak, and in general terms don't even know that anything has changed - as they collectively re-create the world of our common experience, warts and all - nations, governments, lady gaga, pop culture, crumbling city utilities, acne, philosophical enquiry, football, high school exams, bad backs and dental appointments, etc.

here, it may take the subjective experience of centuries for 3d folk to gradually move out of this place, and be re-settled into new space/time 3d planets in order to continue with their normal 3d evolution.

concurrently with this, those who are no longer needing/wishing 3d experiencing move seamlessly into their native vibratory environs.

from the perspective of our normal space/time frame of reference, they are dead, only in terms of the fact that they no longer live in space/time. what david is trying to convey is that here, there is no personal experience of death. 'death' as we have come to know and experience it in terms of leaving behind a dead body is in this unique circumstance not an issue. mark

[transiten]

hello

here comes my naive question: the explanation from both markm and dfs implies then that those who choose to stay in 3d will:

1: either continue life as the ascended beings (friends, parents, other "known" pple) had never been together with them

2: or will continously wonder where on earth these pple might be?

3: or will somehow be told by the ascended 4d:s what happened?

transiten:confused:

[capt.libra]

people left in 3d will mostly beleive that they had a major religous experience and will think that ours was different. they will come to think of as 144,000 that the bible refers to.

[transiten]

:d

so we are the 144.000, not the jehova witnesses:rolleyes:

transiten

[evolving]

once again, to quote q'uo february 11, 2007, some of the latest channelling on the subject of the harvest:

when the time lateral ends and those who are still breathing third-density air upon earth are still around to pick up the pieces—which you are already doing, my friends—those who were not able to make the transition with you will all have been picked up as they enter larger life through the gates of death and with infinite care, cherished and supported through their own process of discovering what lay behind the veil of forgetting. they will be given every chance to consider their lives and what they wish to do next. they will go to a third-density planet somewhere that is not earth and they will take up the third-density classroom once again, attempting to learn to make that choice and to set the intention not just for third density but for so many densities to come, all the way through the middle of sixth density.

translation: the transition between the third and fourth densities is not a split second event, even though what we observe as time in our current illusion will come to a specific end at 11:11 gmt dec 21, 2012. we have been in 3rd density for thousands of years, but are steadily becoming capable of the 4th density.at the time of harvest, third density will steadily wain away, as steadily as the 4th density came.those that are unable to make the transition to fourth density will pass on, either before, or at the time of the time lateral ending. with infinite care, cherished and supported through their own process of discovering what lay behind the veil of forgetting, they will be given every chance to consider their past lives and what they wish to do next. they will go to a third-density planet somewhere that is not earth and continue learning.

the remaining that are still aware of the third density (air) which is now waining, will also require a review of life lessons. the possibility exists that this may be done in the new classroom, as it were, of the fourth density.

in all cases, there is a requirement to rid ourselves of these third density bodies, for we will not require them no matter where we are going.

there appears to be a requirement to keep people calm for all this. i am coming to the belief that world leaders all know of this, but to alert the masses will only bring a great deal of chaos, fear, and unnecessary violence, resulting in significantly longer healing time for a great deal of those that should not require it such.

simply, it appears to be better that most do not know.

dfs,
i appreciated your response with understanding towards stages of social development.

[DFS]

transiten wrote:

hello
here comes my naive question: the explanation from both markm and dfs implies then that those who choose to stay in 3d will:
1: either continue life as the ascended beings (friends, parents, other "known" pple)
had never been together with them
2: or will continously wonder where on earth these pple might be?
3: or will somehow be told by the ascended 4d:s what happened?
transiten
confused
****

hello, transiten
,
anything i offer in response to your confusion should be considered as speculations extracted from the loo responses. i have no recalled experiences or special guidance to draw on , so it's just my best 3d guesses. <smile>

i liked markm's explanation. it has a certain elegance that appeals, but it does include an assumption common to several of the responses in this thread. the assumption appears to be that if we do not actually die or if we only experience the exchange of our 3d body for a body suited to our core bib rations, then our present persona will simply shift into the higher density.

if one is a wanderer, i seriously doubt that she/he wants to return to their core density as their 3d persona. however, that's probably a moot point because i believe that ascending to a higher density will require closing the book, as if were, on our present incarnation. in fact, the review process following each incarnation appears to serve both as a testing/distilling and a process of releasing the present persona as a complete book or record in order that we can undertake a new incarnation or course of study. it seems logical to me that we will undergo a similar process as part of ascension.

in session 83, question 7, ra states:
i am ra. it is true that the nature of time/space is such that a lifetime may be seen whole as a book or record, the pages studied, riffled through, and re-read....

however, the value of review is that of the testing as opposed to the studying. at the testing, when the test is true, the distillations of all study are made clear. during the process of study, which you may call the incarnation, regardless of an
entity’s awareness of the process taking place, the material is diffused and over-attention is almost inevitably placed upon detail.

the testing upon the cessation of the incarnative state is not that testing which involves the correct memorization of many details. this testing is, rather, the observing of self by self, often with aid as we have said. in this observation one sees the sum of all the detailed study; that being an attitude or complex of attitudes which bias the consciousness of the mind/body/spirit.
****

in session 48, question 6, ra reiterates this, but there is also some info specific to the harvest::
ra:
...upon the bodily complex death, as you call this transition, the entity will immediately, upon realization of its state, return to the indigo form-maker body and rest therein until the proper future placement is made.

here we have the anomaly of harvest. in harvest the entity will then transfer its
indigo body into violet-ray manifestation as seen in true color yellow. this is for the purpose of gauging the harvestability of the entity. after this anomalous activity has been carefully completed, the entity will move into indigo body again and be placed in the correct true color locus in space/time and time/space at which time the healing's and learn/teachings necessary shall be completed and further incarnation needs determined.
****

even in markm's elegant explanation, there is a need to determine harvestability. i believe there is also a need to complete and release the present persona in order that our "whole self" or total self, including the aspects of self that have been blocked by the forgetting can ascend to the proper bib rational density.

my ego-self balks at the idea of being reduced to a "has been." <wry grin> however, that is the nature of multiple incarnations or courses of study. each time i take up a new course of study, i also take on a new persona, and i suspect this will also be necessary for ascension. the difference will be that i will no longer be subject to the forgetting, and my prior personas, all of them, will be a part of my memory. the cool aspect is that i will recall and know all those special souls who have been sharing in my many courses of study. much of the fun of early 4d may come from getting together with my soul friends/family and recalling and sorting out our multiple relationships in our 3d incarnations. the really fun part will be doing this sharing/sorting telepathically. <big grin>

i'm apologizing to transiten in advance because i suspect i have only muddied up the waters even more. will those who knew us in this incarnation recall us and wonder about us if they remain in 3d and do not undergo a review process that includes a new persona? i do not know, but i'm certain that those managing the harvest will do so in the most loving of manners, assisting and guiding without infringing on free will.

dfs

[MarkM]

dfs, a little clarification is in order, as i feel my quick post of yesterday has been misconstrued due to my carelesness in elucidating clearly.:rolleyes:

i was referring to the proverbial ra-mentioned three way split - specifically for the purpose of making my point, those unharvestable in the sense of progressing into higher densities, and a theoretical scenario which both addresses the issues surrounding death, as well as possibly accounting for and resolving the dichotomy of both the concept of a sudden shift and the concept of a centuries long shift into full 4d activation of the earth plane.

what i did last night was to briefly revisit a working hypothesis put together by david wilcock and dr. scott mandelker which envisions a flipping over into 3d time/space of the unpolarized human masses currently on earth. i did fail to make this distinction yesterday, thus i accept responsibility for the misconception!

in this scenario, unpolarized humanity continues to 'haunt' the third density precincts of earth, yet existing in the time/space realm only - as opposed to the space/time aspect with which we are all dwelling in our waking experience currently. here, 3d space/time is no longer occupied, but this doesn't mean that six billion corpses are lying around!

i did not intend to express the idea that our normal 3d conciousness is imported into higher densities. ideas pertaining to our placement into appropriate density of environ and vehicles of higher expression belong in a different convo.

i was addressing a small part of the overall picture, choosing to use the unpolarized segment of humanity in order to illustrate a concept relating to the potential ease whereby matter, energy and people seem to be capable of flipping between the space/time and time/space aspects of a given density.

dw has written extensively of this phenomenon, and has provided extremely compelling evidence to back up these ideas. physical matter in the form of ormes material is known to be easily made to flip over into time/space with the application of heat, causing this form of exotic matter's constituent atoms to vibrate at rates exceeding the speed of light, thus allowing for the flip.

dw's published work is huge in scope. most who visit here have no idea of the incredible scientific case he has made for the reality of life, as opposed to the illusion of death. :p mark

[NegaNova]

i understand that earth is going into fourth density positive, and as a result there is an extreme focus right now on the positive side of things..

...but i guess there is part of me that is very interested in how the negative oriented entity functions. people have told me that positive is 100% love and the negative is 100% hate, but if that is so, i'm curious as to why a person chooses the negative path? i mean, why would someone choose the negative side if there seems to be so much unpleasant experience and fear in it? is it because of power?

also, another questions comes to me, if you desire to be unified in polarity, as the 6th density being is, why do we choose to reject the negative? would it not be better to accept all parts, both positive and negative in order to be complete?

[onething]

the pain of death comes of the feeling of being cut off from the departed, a sharp division between the worlds with little or no communication and which tries our faith. but if we go through a transition together, even if we do drop these bodies, how is that to be feared like the regular death where we go one by one, with those left behind grieving and confused?

some people have mentioned children, but i do not see why children are in any different boat than the adults. they are having an incarnation and so are we. your child might be an older soul than you.
it matters not that those unready to progress to 4d are going to have a less happy experience than those who are. if our planet were not undergoing the transition, then each of those unready people would die anyway in their time and reincarnate in their time, and so on until they are ready to progress.

as to the fear of death, which has always dogged me and which i have puzzled over for years and years, always with the goal of being ready for it but without success, an odd thing has happened to me since my son was murdered a few months ago. although i am deeply grieved, i no longer carry much fear of death, nor does his father. it is very freeing to have that removed. i cannot particularly understand it. when my mother died a year ago, i felt her presence in a very definite way; it has been one of the most beautiful experiences of my life and yet it did not affect my fear of death. it must be that i feel him beckoning. it must be that if he can do it i can do it. my love for him is stronger than death. i long for a more definite contact with him, and yet i am beginning to understand that his presence is very light and subtle. it has uplifted the four remaining members of the family and the knowledge that we were gifted by the presence of so fine a being has called us to our own highest potential as it has also done for his many, many friends.

he said in one of his songs:
we are angels of love, coming here to spread light in the world.

[clairead]

thank you, onething, for sharing your beautiful witness of the fact that we do go on. to lift the barriers of fear from even one soul, is great work. your words are a tremendous example of what david meant when he said that genuine, gritty, to-the-point sharing is the most effective means of haveing people really connect with your message.

may your communication with your son in his true presence go on and on.
namaste,
kelly


an odd thing has happened to me since my son was murdered a few months ago. although i am deeply grieved, i no longer carry much fear of death, nor does his father. it is very freeing to have that removed. i cannot particularly understand it.... my love for him is stronger than death. i long for a more definite contact with him, and yet i am beginning to understand that his presence is very light and subtle. it has uplifted the four remaining members of the family and the knowledge that we were gifted by the presence of so fine a being has called us to our own highest potential as it has also done for his many, many friends.

[DFS]

hello, markm,

thank you for the thoughtful clarification. i apologize for introducing a tangent better suited to a different thread, but i find the loo material to be so consistent and layered that discussion of one aspect tends to lead one into consideration of linked aspects. the consideration of harvest tends to link one to how it works, which links to the question of harvestability, and so on. or, at least, that is how my own thought processes often work, but then, i've been accused of thinking laterally and of making some odd connections. <wry smile>

it's true that my understanding of dw's published work is limited to this site, and i was very grateful when my guidance pointed me to the site with a random mention in an astrological article. i have read and reread his freely shared books and articles because they offer concrete data and solid references that confirm many of the conclusions i had arrived at independently but could not support with any hard facts. this site is a most generous resource. my heartfelt thanks to david and all of those like yourself who make the site function so effectively.

dfs

[KassandraLoves]

i can walk away with 2 major things from this conversation that are integral to understanding the ra philosophy, what i believe to be davids philosophy, and my own....

death and suffering are not what we have been told to think they are. its not going to matter if you get "seperated from loved ones." its not going to matter if you "die." worrying about that is something that is strictly 3d in nature. we, as 3d humans, have an obviously difficult time comprehending that death and pain arent actually what we think they are because we havent experienced it yet. not that we remember currently anyway...

there is so much more going on here that this so-called death and the so-called suffering both become something completely and utterly different. its not death as we are so conditioned to. there wont be a longing for those that didnt end up in 4d. there will be happiness for your friends and families no matter where they go! thats because they are exactly where they need to be to fully evolve. it doesnt make them any better or worse off! there arent any people "left behind" or more special than anyone else. and no one more or less "deserving" of anything....everyone is doing just what they want, and when they want it. no exceptions. take solace in knowing that we are all eternal and we do exactly what we are supposed to do according to ourselves. thats called being a creator! and its awesome to know we are so powerful and beautiful! (especially when we are taught the opposite our whole lives and are conditioned to fear the most imperatively integral parts of experiencing 3d human life....)

i get the feeling that because of our earthly lives, we tend to feel like this is a big test and we either make the grade, or be ashamed, you know? we are all so used to being judged and judging eachother, that we attach all this stigma to our 3d to 4d transition. theres no teacher saying wow a+ or woah, youre a failure. theres no shame in wanting to stay 3d for a while to continue your learning. theres especially no rush! no need to hurry through it all! we have all the time in the universe! and all the love and support anyone could need regarless of what density we are currently experiencing!!! dont fret over the welfare of other souls either. they are just as amazing as you and are on the exact same premise no matter what their physcial age may be in this life. kids are souls just as old as you or me and they fully know what they were doing when they chose to incarnate here. the risk is minimal when we really never die. what has anyone got to lose then? i'm happy to face this so called "death" knowing that my soul will never cease to exist and neither will the souls of everyone else.

anyway, once you release your fears of death/pain then you can take a huge step forward spiritually. these 2 issues are one of the very tough things we percieve we are facing here. and once you can step back and see the game being played from the stands instead of being a player, every thing changes. we have got to get away from the scary 3d thoughts about death and suffering and fearing for our loved ones and what not. there is no such thing as the death we've been taught. and suffering is only superficial illusion, and if anything, teaches you more and helps you evolve faster. our kids will be absolutely fine, just as you and everyone else you know and dont know will be. superficial illusions of the 3d world of this nature will be shed once we pull into 4d and remember how eternal and beautful and amazing and resilient and powerful we all are. :) every dang one of us (or is it just the one of us ;) )

in the end, if i move on to 4d? great! if i stay in 3d? great! if my loved ones split up and do what they need to do? great! no matter what happens, i am warmed right down the the sub-cockles of my heart knowing that we are all experiencing whatever is for our greatest good. and that feels good...

i bet ra had one heck of a time trying to convey this to everyone stuck in a 3d web. thankfully, i was born without the fear of death and minimal fears of pain/suffering...but be that whole being-born-in-'84-during-the-wanderer-incarnation-surge thing, hahaha...

[cadescurlies]

thank you all for your participation in this post. i have all the law of one books and have gotten through book 3. i've attended 4 of the conferences david has spoken at and follow his work.
for me it's all in the way you place your thoughts. which is a choice. david's positive attitude and deliverance is to be commended in my way of seeing all this. there are plenty of places you can read about all that there is which one should be frightened of. for someone who's mission is to hold the light, "you're going to die" would not be the place to send anyone.
i'm not all about white puffy clouds and beautiful rainbows. looking at both the positive and the negative and choosing how you think about it, tells you which path you'll be taking. how i feel about something, in this 3d body, tells me how to continue on or change my thoughts. the experience we have left in this reality can be one of fear or one of love, peace and happiness. it's a choice.
i have 2 twenty plus year old daughters and a 6 year old grand daughter. my girls know all of what i study or at least all of what they've chosen to listen to. i tell them not to worry because that will effect their reality. enjoy life, be kind, honest, trustworthy and find something positive to think about when things aren't going so well. when the transition happens we'll all be taken care of by our higher selves. no one is going to be left behind. trust and have faith that you are loved more than you can possibly imagine.
blessings to all of you for your input, i've enjoyed reading what you've all had to say.
claudia
p.s. could someone let me know the best source to read carla's channeling of q'uo?

[HalexandriaAngel]

kassandra!!! yes sweet thang. you have really got it going on!! beautiful. only thing i would not agree with , and that is precisely at the crux of my concerns is where you say at the end there that we have really got to move away from this 3d thinking and realize... . although, yes, yes, if we want to be without fear, we really should come to understand that we are immortal, therefore dying, has no more power over our lives.

however, this is the 3rd dimension, and the catalyst of death here is more profound than most any of the rest . that 3d reality, creates the "survival instinct", it also creates so many other survival tactics and the joy of being "alive".

when our 3d persona comes face to face with pending death, great transformation can, and often does occur. this catalyst is one of the most powerful of all the tools to help us transform. it comes in the reflective moments of our life, in the acceptance of it, in how we choose to deal with the truth of it and how we then help the others to prepare and accept that we are leaving. the full potential in such transformation, is precisely what my point in this thread is about. if the 3d conditioned to survive at all costs, has been mislead, holds false understanding , they cannot possibly gain the fullness of this catalyst and that is truly unfair and unjust. quite sad.

i hace always had problems dealing with excess empathy. this empathy inside has literally rendered me unable to function in normal society, for weeks at a time. the thought of death, devastating. to lose a child like the blessed woman above, incomprehensible for someone like myself. until the ra material that is. i can not put to words, not with any real exactness, how much this material has helped me to balance my empathy. it is truly like giving me a miracle and a bandaid for my bleeding heart. i am forever in gratitude to know that death is not the winner. that we are amazing just as we are, where we are. that children who go before their parents ate indeed as old as i in my soul, and indeed did incarnate with the intent to do what they did. i have a personal burning feeling that most have done so in an act of service to others, so that by their death, others might know love on a deeper level. what an honor that brings those left behind, and how much more does their life mean now? even those children or adults that die at the hand of violence. pre programmed choice i am sure of it!. wow , i have been transformed by these things , no longer suffering desperately, or living in constant worry for all .

very few of us in the 3rd dimensional experience are aware or believe in reincarnation. thus one of the biggest problems with most religions... or is it? could it be that it is one of the things contributing to the uniqueness of the learning made available only to this 3d experience.? i think it is. bottom line is , when it hits the fan, humans have shown time after time that what they are good at doing then is stepping up. it is wrong to withhold truth , every time! this time it will cost quite a lot. however, you are right, no need to hurry, and no need to try so hard to ascend either. we have eternity. take some time to enjoy this time as it is, have some fun, make love, dance, play with each other. its all good.

[HalexandriaAngel]

dfs,

you have been a great blessing and help to me. i had to tell you that. indeed, i got the point , sooooo needed to hear this point, and finally, will ask where i can go to agree more with the philosopher named weber. thank you.

[HalexandriaAngel]

i understand that earth is going into fourth density positive, and as a result there is an extreme focus right now on the positive side of things..

...but i guess there is part of me that is very interested in how the negative oriented entity functions. people have told me that positive is 100% love and the negative is 100% hate, but if that is so, i'm curious as to why a person chooses the negative path? i mean, why would someone choose the negative side if there seems to be so much unpleasant experience and fear in it? is it because of power?

also, another questions comes to me, if you desire to be unified in polarity, as the 6th density being is, why do we choose to reject the negative? would it not be better to accept all parts, both positive and negative in order to be complete?

hi neganova,

your questions here are ones that carry much weight in emotional blockages and i was hoping to lend my own thoughts or learnings in an effort to help you understand even a little bit more. anything at all would make you feel better about these points i know that confusion very well. in fact, trying to understand negative path enities is my greatest challenge. learning then to love them as if they were myself, or god, seems truly impossible even today, for some of those leaning in the high opposite of the positive path anyway. hehe. ughh.

i was conditioned as you were too, to think of god as being all good and the devil being all bad. well this is not the truth as we can intelligently understand that if we are in god and god is in us, that that can't be a true statement. humans are both good and bad. if god created us, he created both good and bad. can you have a positive charge without a negative? can you have good without bad. we all make up the original 100%. indeed ra testified that there really is no good/bad only the creator.

i like the way it is put and understood also when we understand that the positive path or service to others, simply means the creator learning about self, through others! . the negative path, or service to self path is simply, and most profoundly , the creator learning to know self!

the only thing i can lend to your curiosity on why on earth anyone would choose to take the negative path, because it carries so much pain etc, is to remind us that the pain is not felt by those of the negative path, only by the victims, those of the positive path. lol. think about how much you enjoy and how it really makes you feel awesome inside when you help others.... this same wonderful feeling for a service to self person, comes when they have been able to dominate, to enslave, to conive or to steal it from you. these are slickness, smartness, or simply discovering how far then can go and how much they can manipulate. it really is the creator learning about self. i admit that it blows my mind too, but in all truth, i am elated that he is not 100% good, because neither am i , nor would i truly ever want to be. i like that i enjoy being naughty now and again. i am free now to do so.


also, another questions comes to me, if you desire to be unified in polarity, as the 6th density being is, why do we choose to reject the negative? would it not be better to accept all parts, both positive and negative in order to be complete?

exceptional question here. the answer i am quite confident about . we are truly not working to be anything other than balanced all the way up through our chakra centers, or colors of vibration. we should not reject, not try to embelish or anything like them. we should seek only to understand the free will to seek whatever it is we want, knowing with wisdom, that it is the creator learning about himself, in that entity at that level of development, always holding fast to our being immortal , eternal , multi life entity and this is merely a programmed illusion for experience. much easier said than done, i agree, but it is where we will be, when we are standing nearest him ready to rejoin the source. in my opinion, you are definately god material, when you are able to love. with understanding someone who rapes and murders a child for example. i am long long away from that place. thats ok , i have plenty of time, theres no reason to hurry!

i hope this brings you some help,or understanding.

[maryv]

after reading law of one--i, too, came away with the same take as halex angel--thinking there would be some who are alive now, that would physically survive the "upgrade process". i wonder if anyone really knows how it will play out. the lovely mr. evolving seems to know or have a good sense of what is to come. have you foreseen our earthly path? i don't know if david really knows either. or perhaps as you say, he is projecting the mindset of hope-positivity-joy, because it is the best thing for the majority of his readers.

to make public (for example) that there are a few that will indeed survive, but they will make the transition in some underground cities, or remote areas, would cause much panic/upheaval/despair. (this is pit of the stomach stuff).

i do feel an extraordinary amount of caring and love while reading mr. e's (and other) posts here--it is quite miraculous to me that our strong emotional responses can be felt so remotely.( okay, well i know the remote part is a function of this reality we reside in). it truly seems we are made of magic!

thanks to all who have written and presented their unique perspectives.

[KassandraLoves]

i wholeheartedly agree that death and suffering are the major catalysts here in 3d. i have seen many people learn lessons from those 2 things that they couldnt have learned any other way. its only by these to things can we move forward.

but the fear of experiencing them is what i was referring to mostly. everyone is just so darn scared of everything and if we all embrace these things instead of living in fear our whole lives, it will help us in our tasks here. i acknowledge the importance of negativity for growth, but i do not condone living in fear of experiencing it.

that fear is what holds people back. a lot. and as we transition, the experiencing part becomes less imperative to our current state. we will slowly but surelt transfer into a more observative role. the duality wont be so much in the foreground as it is now. and this is happening every day because we are already making the switch...

thats all i am saying. at this point, it seems most of us have already experienced enough to progress, otherwise we wouldnt be here, right?

i also know i am part of the influx of wanderers born starting in the mid 80's. and one of the big memories i carried into this incarnation was to not fear death in any way. so i understand that death is important here, but i guess its difficult for me to relate sometimes. "its not the end of the world" is normally how i see it, hahaha...

[capt.libra]

death was something i found unacceptable when i was raising my children. i knew they needed me to guide them. i have finnished that part of this incaration. i feel my grand daughter is a star seed and came here to help her parents.

one thing i feel i need to remind all that the 3d reality is not cast in stone. much has changed and is changing due to free will. so casting the realities of 3d and planet earth all bets are off.

i'm watching and waiting for the financial collapse that is coming. the chess board will certainly be rearranged.

[DFS]

dfs,

you have been a great blessing and help to me. i had to tell you that. indeed, i got the point , sooooo needed to hear this point, and finally, will ask where i can go to agree more with the philosopher named weber. thank you.


hello, halexandriaangel,

a good place to get an introduction to ken wilber is at:

[please pm for link]

this is the site for enlighten next magazine, and it includes free access to past issues which include dialogues between ken wilber and andrew cohen. there are links to other articles and interviews from the earlier issues, but it is these dialogues that will give you a good introduction to ken wilber.

they require you provide an e-mail address, but i have received only two or three low-key posts promoting the magazine, and one may sign off the mailing list at any time. they apparently use a cookie to identify you, so if one signs off, the cookie is gone and you cannot access the free articles. <shrug>

i tend to be quite eclectic and take info that resonates wherever i am guided to find it. as with the dc site, i happened onto the dialogues while searching for something else. <smile>

wilber and cohen draw on eastern practices as a basis for many of their examples. it's a different take and i have tended to focus on the concepts that clarified various issues for me and simply shelved the eastern practices as interesting but not something that resonates. may you also find info that resonates for you.

dfs

[NegaNova]

i can walk away with 2 major things from this conversation that are integral to understanding the ra philosophy, what i believe to be davids philosophy, and my own....

death and suffering are not what we have been told to think they are. its not going to matter if you get "seperated from loved ones." its not going to matter if you "die." worrying about that is something that is strictly 3d in nature. we, as 3d humans, have an obviously difficult time comprehending that death and pain arent actually what we think they are because we havent experienced it yet. not that we remember currently anyway...

there is so much more going on here that this so-called death and the so-called suffering both become something completely and utterly different. its not death as we are so conditioned to. there wont be a longing for those that didnt end up in 4d. there will be happiness for your friends and families no matter where they go! thats because they are exactly where they need to be to fully evolve. it doesnt make them any better or worse off! there arent any people "left behind" or more special than anyone else. and no one more or less "deserving" of anything....everyone is doing just what they want, and when they want it. no exceptions. take solace in knowing that we are all eternal and we do exactly what we are supposed to do according to ourselves. thats called being a creator! and its awesome to know we are so powerful and beautiful! (especially when we are taught the opposite our whole lives and are conditioned to fear the most imperatively integral parts of experiencing 3d human life....)

i get the feeling that because of our earthly lives, we tend to feel like this is a big test and we either make the grade, or be ashamed, you know? we are all so used to being judged and judging eachother, that we attach all this stigma to our 3d to 4d transition. theres no teacher saying wow a+ or woah, youre a failure. theres no shame in wanting to stay 3d for a while to continue your learning. theres especially no rush! no need to hurry through it all! we have all the time in the universe! and all the love and support anyone could need regarless of what density we are currently experiencing!!! dont fret over the welfare of other souls either. they are just as amazing as you and are on the exact same premise no matter what their physcial age may be in this life. kids are souls just as old as you or me and they fully know what they were doing when they chose to incarnate here. the risk is minimal when we really never die. what has anyone got to lose then? i'm happy to face this so called "death" knowing that my soul will never cease to exist and neither will the souls of everyone else.

anyway, once you release your fears of death/pain then you can take a huge step forward spiritually. these 2 issues are one of the very tough things we percieve we are facing here. and once you can step back and see the game being played from the stands instead of being a player, every thing changes. we have got to get away from the scary 3d thoughts about death and suffering and fearing for our loved ones and what not. there is no such thing as the death we've been taught. and suffering is only superficial illusion, and if anything, teaches you more and helps you evolve faster. our kids will be absolutely fine, just as you and everyone else you know and dont know will be. superficial illusions of the 3d world of this nature will be shed once we pull into 4d and remember how eternal and beautful and amazing and resilient and powerful we all are. :) every dang one of us (or is it just the one of us ;) )

in the end, if i move on to 4d? great! if i stay in 3d? great! if my loved ones split up and do what they need to do? great! no matter what happens, i am warmed right down the the sub-cockles of my heart knowing that we are all experiencing whatever is for our greatest good. and that feels good...

i bet ra had one heck of a time trying to convey this to everyone stuck in a 3d web. thankfully, i was born without the fear of death and minimal fears of pain/suffering...but be that whole being-born-in-'84-during-the-wanderer-incarnation-surge thing, hahaha...

this was beautiful haha, i just hope you know. thank you so much for this post. sometimes i myself forget that i am perceiving a lot of these things through our 3d perspective, and perhaps i am focusing too much on trying to know the future which is unwritten, rather than just living in the now. because like everything... when the time comes, it's never the way you expect it to be.

[NegaNova]

hi neganova,

your questions here are ones that carry much weight in emotional blockages and i was hoping to lend my own thoughts or learnings in an effort to help you understand even a little bit more. anything at all would make you feel better about these points i know that confusion very well. in fact, trying to understand negative path enities is my greatest challenge. learning then to love them as if they were myself, or god, seems truly impossible even today, for some of those leaning in the high opposite of the positive path anyway. hehe. ughh.

i was conditioned as you were too, to think of god as being all good and the devil being all bad. well this is not the truth as we can intelligently understand that if we are in god and god is in us, that that can't be a true statement. humans are both good and bad. if god created us, he created both good and bad. can you have a positive charge without a negative? can you have good without bad. we all make up the original 100%. indeed ra testified that there really is no good/bad only the creator.

i like the way it is put and understood also when we understand that the positive path or service to others, simply means the creator learning about self, through others! . the negative path, or service to self path is simply, and most profoundly , the creator learning to know self!

the only thing i can lend to your curiosity on why on earth anyone would choose to take the negative path, because it carries so much pain etc, is to remind us that the pain is not felt by those of the negative path, only by the victims, those of the positive path. lol. think about how much you enjoy and how it really makes you feel awesome inside when you help others.... this same wonderful feeling for a service to self person, comes when they have been able to dominate, to enslave, to conive or to steal it from you. these are slickness, smartness, or simply discovering how far then can go and how much they can manipulate. it really is the creator learning about self. i admit that it blows my mind too, but in all truth, i am elated that he is not 100% good, because neither am i , nor would i truly ever want to be. i like that i enjoy being naughty now and again. i am free now to do so.



exceptional question here. the answer i am quite confident about . we are truly not working to be anything other than balanced all the way up through our chakra centers, or colors of vibration. we should not reject, not try to embelish or anything like them. we should seek only to understand the free will to seek whatever it is we want, knowing with wisdom, that it is the creator learning about himself, in that entity at that level of development, always holding fast to our being immortal , eternal , multi life entity and this is merely a programmed illusion for experience. much easier said than done, i agree, but it is where we will be, when we are standing nearest him ready to rejoin the source. in my opinion, you are definately god material, when you are able to love. with understanding someone who rapes and murders a child for example. i am long long away from that place. thats ok , i have plenty of time, theres no reason to hurry!

i hope this brings you some help,or understanding.

these are good points. you have pretty good insight into this whole concept, thanks for responding to my question! haha. sometimes i think that perhaps i don't necessarily need to understand it all right now though, because i've chosen this incarnation for other sorts of purposes and understandings, and who's to say that we haven't already been the negative-entity a million times already and that is why we have chosen to follow the positive path today. the universe is like a kazillion years old and beyond right? i'm not trying to say that the negative path is bad though, or the positive is good, i mean they are both unique and are what they are, but i was just curious as to why one might choose that path, but you answered it quite well. so... yeah. thank you again!


on a side note, just wanted to say that we have a really awesome community going on here. i love reading up on all your guys' responses and perspectives! :d

[onething]

i don't think that david is engaging in a pious fiction regarding mass death. i wish i could remember the details, but i believe he has discussed this and thinks there are other ways it may play out.

also, i think that there is sometimes a bit of a misconception about evil being a necessary part of reality. if that were true, we would have to resign ourselves to eternal vulnerability to suffering. duality appears to run the universe, but in fact the one folds into the other. we think from our relative perspective (3d bodies) that there is such a thing as hot and cold but there is only heat. cold is less heat. cold is not an actual thing. that's how duality really works.

this is the reason why 6th density negatives have to go positive in order to progress. remember that in some logos systems there isn't evil. they progress much slower due to lack of catalyst, but they do eventually progress.
evil is not self-existent. it is a distortion of the good. in the resolution of evil, evil disappears and dissolves and becomes good.
all beings want the good, but negatives operate on a paradigm of separation (which is a lower truth) and they try to steal their pleasure in illegitimate ways, so that others must suffer for their pleasure. without the others (which is a good) they have nothing to feed upon. so they are seeking the good for themselves, but wrongly.

the fundament of all reality is existence itself (which is god) and it is an unmixed goodness. the good has no opposite!

[transiten]

goodmorning dfs and all

i'm in a period of facing bodily decay both for myself and my beloved dog and i have spent a lot of money to try to stop it. i even pay for a rehabilitationprogram for my dog who is 13.5 years old. i'm loosing my hair, i've tried altrnative treatments where the therapists have failed to make the proper diagnosis which probably is overactive thyroidgland and i have been "mistreated" by a dentist who did not take my symptoms of infection seriously after he pulled out a tooth which is now causing me extreme inconvenience, not being able to go home for christmas, having problems to find help to stop the infection, will try the cheekacute tomorrow, took my dog to the vet already two times, going back tomorrow and i know he will not live for very long even if he temporarily gets better....

i have tried to rebuild my life after extremely traumatic experiences in the 80:ies and 90:ies, not that i have not had any beautiful experiences both before and after that , but at the moment i feel as my life is being stripped away once more and i feel fear.

i also meet compassion from many pple and the opposite from old aquaintances that suddenly turn against me. i find myself thinking i would trade my gained "wisdom" and esoteric knowledge for being a healthy and happy 3dmuggle again and if not, if i'm facing a diffcult period in my life loosing my health, diminishing my chances to ever meet a loving man again and earning my own livivng on singing/leading voiceliberationcourses/picking up astrologyreading finding clients again, i find myself wishing to die together with my dog.

this feels like absolute taboo to even think not to talk about posting it on a forum because "thoughts are things" and what you put out there will manifest right? and at the same time my survival instincts are extrmely strong. but i don't want to fight and i don't want to meditate i just want to rest in peace...

as carl gustav jung stated, individuation occurs as one manage to contain both good and bad inside your own psyche without projecting the bad outside yourself. that would go for life and deathwish also. i live in symbiosis with my dog, it's like i love him more than any living person and i suppose this is not in line with the loo, but it's the truth. i don't have any children and i have never been really close to anyone although i had many love relationships both normal and dysfunctional and i have had many friends but in this very moment i feel there is always a hughe feeling of not vibrating on the same level, always feeling a gap that i'm trying to ignore but which i experience in this very moment has always been the truth.

this doesn't mean i cannot feel love. i can, i try every day to make conscious acts of love and understanding and i meet a lot of kindness that fills me with light and warmth but i always have the feeling they do not understand who i am and that i must look past that.

also i read posts as divinitys which puts my life in perspective and gives me strenght to not give in.

i surely still suffer from a slight borderlinesyndrome though. what is the hope for ascension in that case ifi don't even think myself i'm ready for it or even believe it in my current depressive state of mind....

this post should perhaps have been posted in the "i really need some helpthread"..i suppose the universe will place it where it should be, and perhaps heed my call for help and understanding.

transiten

[maryv]

[quote=the fundament of all reality is existence itself (which is god) and it is an unmixed goodness. the good has no opposite![/quote]

your post, onething, resounds with me in a major way. after many months of intense reading--loo, many of the seth books, online sources, edgar cayce, etc, my head has been heavy with information, but my heart (though many premises and much information "hits home") has been a bit lost. i have been feeling as of late that i have no visceral understanding of it all--and an intellectual understanding is only part of the process. reason must accompany intuitive knowledge.

these posts are important (i think) because we all have so few in our lives to discuss these things with. i have found my heart "kicking in" as i read through these pages. finally, a forum for the kinds of exchanges i've been longing to have.

i feel in my heart the good that cannot be overcome. i hope to have something of value to contribute here in the upcoming days/months/years.

[NegaNova]

goodmorning dfs and all

i'm in a period of facing bodily decay both for myself and my beloved dog and i have spent a lot of money to try to stop it. i even pay for a rehabilitationprogram for my dog who is 13.5 years old. i'm loosing my hair, i've tried altrnative treatments where the therapists have failed to make the proper diagnosis which probably is overactive thyroidgland and i have been "mistreated" by a dentist who did not take my symptoms of infection seriously after he pulled out a tooth which is now causing me extreme inconvenience, not being able to go home for christmas, having problems to find help to stop the infection, will try the cheekacute tomorrow, took my dog to the vet already two times, going back tomorrow and i know he will not live for very long even if he temporarily gets better....

i have tried to rebuild my life after extremely traumatic experiences in the 80:ies and 90:ies, not that i have not had any beautiful experiences both before and after that , but at the moment i feel as my life is being stripped away once more and i feel fear.

i also meet compassion from many pple and the opposite from old aquaintances that suddenly turn against me. i find myself thinking i would trade my gained "wisdom" and esoteric knowledge for being a healthy and happy 3dmuggle again and if not, if i'm facing a diffcult period in my life loosing my health, diminishing my chances to ever meet a loving man again and earning my own livivng on singing/leading voiceliberationcourses/picking up astrologyreading finding clients again, i find myself wishing to die together with my dog.

this feels like absolute taboo to even think not to talk about posting it on a forum because "thoughts are things" and what you put out there will manifest right? and at the same time my survival instincts are extrmely strong. but i don't want to fight and i don't want to meditate i just want to rest in peace...

as carl gustav jung stated, individuation occurs as one manage to contain both good and bad inside your own psyche without projecting the bad outside yourself. that would go for life and deathwish also. i live in symbiosis with my dog, it's like i love him more than any living person and i suppose this is not in line with the loo, but it's the truth. i don't have any children and i have never been really close to anyone although i had many love relationships both normal and dysfunctional and i have had many friends but in this very moment i feel there is always a hughe feeling of not vibrating on the same level, always feeling a gap that i'm trying to ignore but which i experience in this very moment has always been the truth.

this doesn't mean i cannot feel love. i can, i try every day to make conscious acts of love and understanding and i meet a lot of kindness that fills me with light and warmth but i always have the feeling they do not understand who i am and that i must look past that.

also i read posts as divinitys which puts my life in perspective and gives me strenght to not give in.

i surely still suffer from a slight borderlinesyndrome though. what is the hope for ascension in that case ifi don't even think myself i'm ready for it or even believe it in my current depressive state of mind....

this post should perhaps have been posted in the "i really need some helpthread"..i suppose the universe will place it where it should be, and perhaps heed my call for help and understanding.

transiten

i feel for you transiten, although i don't know much of what i could say.

i guess the only thoughts that really cross my mind when reading your post is that to remember that there is nothing that you need or are supposed to do. the idea of ascension isn't all about completely ridding yourself of fear, i mean, we all feel fear at times of our lives, and it's not a bad thing. the point is to just... feel whatever you're feeling. if you are sad/happy/angry/whatever, just embrace whatever that might be. there are no mistakes in the scheme of infinity, take comfort in that. :d

and i like what you said about your dog, your relationship with him/her sounds really beautiful.

we're always with you! dream well. :o

[onething]

dear transiten,

i have been searching for words of wisdom. i am so sorry that you are having a difficult time. i don't think suppression of your feelings is the answer, sometimes we have to voice them and work through it. if you make yourself wrong for feeling that way it only adds to the burden.

my son was more than a son to me, he had one of the purest hearts we are likely to meet and quite a few people compared him to an angel. i find that word on old birthday cards from friends and in spontaneous conversation about him by other people. his sole mission was to make this world a better place and he was a spiritual companion to me. so i no longer feel the same attachment to this life and often feel impatient for it to end so that i can see him again. perhaps this will pass, i don't know.

i recommend to you and to everyone to read michael newton's books because you will realize that our lives and permanent home are in the spirit world and that you have soul companions who have been with your for many thousands of years. being happy and well adjusted is not something to judge as superior. in some ways it is luck. i changed my thoughts about this sort of judgment when my mother died. she was a depressed and lonely person whose glass was always half empty. she was dogged by her neurosis and never could really get over her lousy childhood. perhaps a stronger soul would have overcome it. i always thought so, and even worried about her soul development and afterlife.

but when i took her in for the last 4 months of her life, it was so sweet and loving between us, and i noticed how much she loved children...when she passed it was amazing. that negativity was all gone and just her pure essence, the real "her" was felt as a presence around me. i could even feel her thoughts. and i realized that her many fine qualities - honesty, kindness, and idealism, were the true self of her, and she was so peaceful. i have rethought my idea that she was a less advanced soul, because all that unhappiness was tied to her personality of this lifetime and her good qualities are those of an older soul.

the healing was mutual because the love between us during her life was always tainted with sadness and frustration that i could not help her, but the love we had while she was dying and after she died was so pure...i realized how much we had always loved each other and longed to have the chance to tell her, and then i had a dream and all that happened is that i met her in a hallway of her house, and she was wearing her best dress, and i hugged her and hugged and told her i loved her. (i had never said the actual words to her before - not our style.)

she had no idea how to live but she died with elegance and finesse. she also came to my daughter in a dream, and resolved her issues with her, the only person who had lingering unresolved feelings, and the dream was amazing.

[transiten]

thankyou neganova and onething::heart::


i remember your story about your son onething and it's truly uplifting.

you know i believe in the spirit world; i've had messages from all relatives that passed to the other side via different mediums and it's almost like these contacts feel more real than the ones i have with living pple, they really touche my soul on a deeper level and give me true conslolation. only that it costs money to talk to them:(

i attended a mediumshipcourse but i didn't finish it and i've been told i already have what's needed to develop my psychic and intuitive faculties...wouldn't it be better if we could contact our own friends on the other side without having to see a medium;)

i went to the dentistacute today and met 2 angels, one in the reception and the assistant who was soon becoming a dentist herself. i don't know what happened, but as soon as she adressed me i started to talk and then i burst into tears and cried for 15 minutes and she just quietly said something and stayed emotionally present.

not until you meet a person like that you forget that they exist. the dentist was more "flesh and blood" but quite ok and i now hope my problem will go away although i'm still exhausted.

it's invaluable to have a forum like this to turn to as times get hard. i appreciate my friends also but they don't have the perspective that you've got. other forummembers have given me their support and prayers as well and i thank you all

tomorrow is christmas eve and i will go to church in the morning with a friend of mine to listen to a choire where her 11 year old son sings christmas carols.

a peaceful christmas and ...well what will 2010 bring???

transiten

[onething]

transiten,

i am lucky that my son met a psychic woman about two weeks before he was killed, and she channeled him a couple of times for me. she was one who insisted that he is an angel. but i also contacted a psychic recently and he charged a lot! what i like about newton's approach is that he is a hypnotherapist and has trained a lot of others to help a person access their past lives and the spirit world between lives, so they get a lot of incredible information that is not through a medium. that is what i want. i went to one of them, but i did not go deep enough to even access a past life and i intend to try again but i am a little worried that i might not be able to. most people can but a few can't.

[transiten]

goodmorning neganova, onething and all of you

christmas eve came with peace and harmony for me an my beloved shorthaired collie pajazzo. i don't know if my tribulations are over yet, depends on how i can handle the tense energies reflected in my transits the coming week. the beginning of 2010 brings a sunnier outlook coinciding with the time my penicillincure will be done.

after an incredible number of telephonecalls, visits and revisits to dentists and doctors i finally ended up on christmas eve with one that had a broader perspective and confirmed that bacteria can spread from a tooth to other parts of your body, giving the sinusite i had and can also spread to the jaw or the brain.

i give thanks to the universe for being on this forum and the support i got here.

onething, what do you mean by "newton's approach"? is that the hypnotherapist who charged a lot? i didn't mean it's wrong for a medium to charge for their services, only that in the long run it will be expensive if you want to "keep contact" with your loved ones on the other side.

transiten

[onething]

transiten,

a hypnotherapist is not a medium. i am talking about his books that detail his discovery of the spirit world as revealed through people undergoing hypnosis, who access their own memories and also go there in real time. the charge is pretty much for that, but it would be worth it to have my own contact, as opposed to going through a medium.

the medium who charged a lot gave good information that i think is mostly true, and it matches what the free psychic (friend) said and also i consulted an astrologer, who didn't really give me a good understanding of the astrological influences involved, but also said some psychic things and there is a lot of corroboration with what they all three said, as well as facts of the situation as revealed by the police and other people.

i think that the information/channeling i get from the mediums has comforted me but it is definitely not the same. if i could contact him in a strong way myself, i think i would begin to feel much better. i hope to do so eventually.

you should read journey of souls.

[transiten]

hell onething

i actually have read almost everything posible on regression to earlier lives, i've been to mediums, i attended a course in mediumship and i also do astrology, i just did not get who newton was.

like you, i would also want to have my own contact without having to use another medium, wonder what will happen in this respect in connection to "ascension"?

journey of souls?? who wrote that one? david?

i'm listening to a choire singing "gloria in excelsis deo"

love and light

transiten

[onething]

michael newton wrote journey of souls and destiny of souls. i believe that they are unique in the new information they give, the clear picture they give about the spirit world and our life between incarnations. david mentions these books.