Am I Messing With Animals Spiritual Growth? If I Report Abuse?

[MarBu13]

long story short: my uncle is a real jerk whose bad luck in life is everyone's fault i guess. he's 50 something and lives with my grandma. she's a real timid and sweet woman, but the reason i say this is because he also has several pitbulls on her property. to my knowledge, at least one of them are quite vicious (male pitbull, about 4 or 5 yrs old attacked my dog last year. instead of reporting the animal, my uncle agreed to take him away. but he just brought the dog back three months ago.) but the 4 others are within the range of 1-3 years old. and they are actually nice pups.

i know the debate going around about pitbulls. i sometimes agree that most of them are vicious and will rip anything to shreds just because. but these puppies i feel sorry for because he has them locked down in cages and chained on short chains in the back.

all their lives, that's all they ever known. very small tight cage space with little room to breath, exercise or other. he doesn't walk them to my knowledge and all of them are really slender. a couple way below their natural weight. my dog is 11 years old this year and comparing my dog to them, is like day and night. these dogs look worn out, eaten up by insects or fleas and just miserable. at 3 or 4 years old.

every day i'm really torn between reporting this as animal neglect. what's keeping me back, is that my uncle has had a lot of bad luck and i don't want to take his pets away since he really seems to love them. (or seems to love them. he probably just keeps them around because he needs to feel in control of something.) and this is my grandma's property and even though she's an enabler and a doormat, i just don't want her to be at fault.

but my uncle is cruel and these animals really deserve a chance. they bark all day and night and go crazy when they see other dogs from the road, and i fear that they are too uncontrollable now in their social skills. i've offered to at least walk them but he's not hearing it. lol he even got upset when i gave them a toy (it was a stuffed football and they had cotton everywhere in the cage).

i've asked this question on a few forums, and of course i got the regular answer - report him. but i'm interested in the spiritual-inclined point of view since this is a more spiritual oriented forum. do you think i would be hindering his free will in anyway or break some lesson he has to learn if i report him? do you think the dogs will learn more in whatever mission they have to accomplish if i don't interfere? i know the situation is going to end up bad, but i think his dogs really deserve better. but i am really torn and everyday, it gets harder to make a decision.

[transiten]

if you can't make him change, report him of course. what about your own free will and spiritual development?

transiten

[Detlef]

there is only one question you need to answer to yourself,

is the situation the dogs are in, acceptable in your view and understanding?

you can not interfere in his free will, since you don't control your uncle.
control is the only way to interfere in someones fee will, and who is controlling?
perhaps your grand mother will enjoy the backyard with out the dogs.

regards detlef

[Jetamus]

report it of course.
it might get the dogs out of those horrible conditions.

[Firewalker]

no you are not, this query is very confused.

we live in an interactive world which we effect others. to not make the obvious moral choice in this regard is a movement away from the service to others polarity.

[islandgirl]

instead of asking if you're 'messing with animals spiritual growth' by reporting your uncle maybe you should ask yourself if you're going to miss out on an important lesson/test for yourself if you continue to ignore it.

the authorities will let you remain anonymous if you ask them. they will take care of it, you don't have to say anything to your uncle or aunt....and i wouldn't mention reporting them (if you do) to anyone else....ever.

have you wondered who will stop this horrible situation if not you ? or how about if it was a child instead of an animal......would you even hesitate for a moment to come to their aid ? all animals housed by humans and children too, depend on others to come to their aid and rescue them when it is put before you to see.

think of it this way, you will be saving a person or other animal in the future from the fury of these abused dogs ......how will you feel when/if they break free and attack another......either animal or human ?

take heart, we've all been faced with these decisions.

you already know the right action to take. you've felt it in your heart. you also have the courage to follow through with your inner urging.

this is a lesson for you not the dogs.

just my opinion, since you asked,
cheri

[Valo]

the decision to report may be full of compassion but is it wise? what if the dogs, even in their apparent unfortunate state are just what your uncle needs for his spritual progress? what does the current situation have to offer you in terms of lessons/spritual progress?

personally, i am not sure i would act on it unless "the service was requested".

in the law of one material, remember the mistake ra made and how they are now "paying" for it in what we call our ancient past?

you seem to be getting what you termed the "regular answer" here too so i thought i'd throw another perspective out there.

enjoy.

[meganarline]

i would definitely report them. it drives me crazy to see animals abused. when ra was asked about the conditions in africa with people starving etc. and what the correct response to that would be ra said:


ra: i am ra. this is incorrect. to a mind/body/spirit complex which is starving, the appropriate response is the feeding of the body. you may extrapolate from this.



ra: i am ra. your previous assumption was correct as to the catalytic action of this starvation and ill health. however, it is within the free will of an entity to respond to this plight of otherselves, and the offering of the needed foodstuffs and substances is an appropriate response within the framework of your learn/teachings at this time which involve the growing sense of love for and service to other-selves.

i hope this helps.

[transiten]

valo

i fel obliged to say that your perspective very much sounds like some in india holding the idea that the low-cast untouchable should not be helped because it's their karma to be poor. beware of misusing and misinterpreting spiritual teachings. use "common sense2.

namaste from transiten

[felixnova]

well how about warning him about reporting, first. or send in an anonimous letter saying that.
it might just change something, if only you brought him up to the fact that there is an authority that is very serious about mistreating pets.

as for the spiritual progress i think this is a lesson that both your uncle and yourself have to learn from. who knows, it may be karma.

do your best.

[HardKnockSoldi3r]

valo

i fel obliged to say that your perspective very much sounds like some in india holding the idea that the low-cast untouchable should not be helped because it's their karma to be poor. beware of misusing and misinterpreting spiritual teachings. use "common sense2.

namaste from transiten

the dog is in 2nd density consciousness. we are in 3rd density consciousness. what is the will of the dog and what choice would you make if the dog would choose to be aggressive? is the aggesiveness a sign of him wanting to change? animal instincts are different than human instincts.

if my son murdered someone and he didnt want to go to jail, and i could prevent it, then i would not. he will have to go to jail. he had the ability, the will, the choice to not murder, but he did.

ra says its appropriate to feed starving children, but what about the emotionally starved abused and neglected kids, like me? is there a difrence in he spirital developement between densities? i would say not. catalysts are here for us to grow, regardless of density.

there are many positive forces wanting to help us at this time right now, but they can not appear because we have not requested them. ra will not channel someone not requesting him.

[Blacksunshine]

animal abuse is rough. pitbulls makes it even harder. they are beginning to "ban" pitbulls from cities where i live. meaning if she reports, the dogs get put down....but a dog in suffering for no apparent reasons...i dont understand that either. you really have asked a good question, unfortunately you are the only one that knows what answer is best for you, the dogs, and your uncle. i am a strong believer in reincarnation, and i also belive that with each incarnation we "improve" but i dont know how much i would struggle "saving the dogs, knowing they were probabaly going to die" becuase i have never been put in that situation.

many blessings and i wish the best for you and for this particular decision.

[grs9769]

i'd report him. if they were humans (and not dogs) being treated that way, would you be asking if you'd be interfering in their development??? i don't think so. maybe they were put there for your development...

on another level... if you feel it's wrong and you are not doing it to seek revenge but because you truly know in your heart it's the right thing to do, then you should do it.

[MarBu13]

i'd report him. if they were humans (and not dogs) being treated that way, would you be asking if you'd be interfering in their development??? i don't think so. maybe they were put there for your development...

on another level... if you feel it's wrong and you are not doing it to seek revenge but because you truly know in your heart it's the right thing to do, then you should do it.

no, it's not just that "easy". if it was, than i would not have posted this on the message board in the first place. at all. people must understand the relationship between my uncle and myself. there is none. he's an angry, terrible, evil little man who only show signs that he has a heart once every blue moon. i can genuinely say that i hate the guy, and i don't say that about many people. i hate him and i fear him. but, being that i am human, i feel for him. i have sympathy for him. my heart aches for him. because as negative as he is to me and others, i can say that he cares for his animals. and who am i to rip anyone's heart out? that's my internal struggle. coupled with the fact that he will bring down his own personal hell on me if i do? than why would you think it's that easy?

but i did call animal control several days ago and spoke with someone friday. they'll be out here to investigate tomorrow or tuesday at the latest. let's just hope whatever backlash he plans up isn't as "easy" as this decision right?

but anyway, thank you everyone for your input. it really did help me a lot. a lot. you all had different views and perspectives and that's what i was looking for.

[aqcheryl]

i believe you did the right thing.

the fact you reported to animal cruelty means you more than likely saved their lives in the long run. had they gotten to the point of attack, they would have been euthanized immediately, especially when a child is involved. not to mention by reporting him, you have removed any threat to those living there.

when you see a crime of any sort, youd have to ask yourself would you report that or stand by and say nothing? if you say nothing then you have to question if you are acting accomplice. that could have led to negative karmic effects for you. i do believe this was a spiritual test for you (and is for him as well). doing the right thing is not always easy.

your uncle's bad luck is perpetuated by his negativity. he would continue to receive it and take it out on the dogs. perhaps he needs animal control to come to him, so that he can learn. you are not messing with his free will by doing this. he still chooses whether to learn from this situation or not.

you did the right thing.

[grs9769]

well, there you go. since none of us can understand your complex relationship then you need to figure this out on your own. we can't do it for you. that's how you learn, by doing it for yourself.

[Matthew Clark]

hi marbu13,


well, there you go. since none of us can understand your complex relationship then you need to figure this out on your own. we can't do it for you. that's how you learn, by doing it for yourself

i have to say i feel the comment posted by grs9769 was a little harsh and pushes the ball back in your court, especially when you obviously needed some advice.

now you have contacted the relevant dept, it is likely that you will not return to this thread you created.


i can genuinely say that i hate the guy, and i don't say that about many people. i hate him and i fear him. but, being that i am human, i feel for him. i have sympathy for him. my heart aches for him.

i will say this though and this is from my own perspective from your own words above.

can you or anyone say they hate someone (hate is a very strong word and of course emotion) and at the same time say they have empathy for that same person? empathy to my understanding is putting yourself in someone else's shoes and understanding them, or at least trying to.

you have done the right thing by doing what you have done and i think you do not have to dig too deep to know that.

personally i applaud and also thank you. these animals had no choice where they are just now and you have stepped in to help them. being an animal lover i thank you again and again.

i wish you and your uncle well - you did the right thing in the end and hey i think you knew what had to be done from the beginning. :)

matt

[MarBu13]

hi marbu13,



i have to say i feel the comment posted by grs9769 was a little harsh and pushes the ball back in your court, especially when you obviously needed some advice.

now you have contacted the relevant dept, it is likely that you will not return to this thread you created.



i will say this though and this is from my own perspective from your own words above.

can you or anyone say they hate someone (hate is a very strong word and of course emotion) and at the same time say they have empathy for that same person? empathy to my understanding is putting yourself in someone else's shoes and understanding them, or at least trying to.

you have done the right thing by doing what you have done and i think you do not have to dig too deep to know that.

personally i applaud and also thank you. these animals had no choice where they are just now and you have stepped in to help them. being an animal lover i thank you again and again.

i wish you and your uncle well - you did the right thing in the end and hey i think you knew what had to be done from the beginning. :)

matt


well thank you matt. that's extremely nice of you to say. even though i knew what i had to do, i do think creating this thread and getting everyone's thoughts on the subject gave me courage to do it. which is why i didn't appreciate other's negative inputs. but it was well worth it. so thank you as well!

and an update on the situation as well. i did get into contact with a few people from a non profit adoption center and they were able to come out and survey the area and condition. they did agree with me that the dogs were being neglected but after talking with my uncle, they weren't really able to figure out whether he was purposely neglecting them or if he's just not educated on taking care of animals properly. of course i call bullsh*t because he thinks he's just the expert on animals and he doesn't really deserve to have them. so i have to stay in contact with them and they'll be visiting again in a few weeks to see if conditions improve.

no, i'm not really satisfied and yes he's angry but if he continues to treat them like trash than hopefully they'll get taken to a better home soon.

[hope108]

well, do undo others as you would have them do unto you.
if you report him, what happens? the dogs go to the pound and in a day or week or two, get transferred to heaven.
what about, and i know this is not easy, but saying to him.

uncle, i see you love these dogs very much and they bring great joy to you, and i know we are all very busy in life and so many things are taking attention and need attention, so it is very hard, that is what i find in life, to do all the things that i think need attention.

but nontheless, i just want to see what you think about something. i am willing to cover the expense and the of labor involved to give the pups more food and exercise.

what do you think?

or some such thing expressing in a kind and concerned way about his situation and dogs. it is tricky, as you dont want him to feel like you think he is too poor or to lazy, so the above wording may not be the best...

[hope108]

have found that 'mind your own business' can really save alot of heartache in life. and if i was minding my own business i wouldnt be telling to the same....haa haa.....

[hope108]

ok, here is another angle. it is a popular saying in india:

saha nav avatu
saha viryam karavavahai
tejasvi nav adhitam astu
ma vidvisavahai

om shanti shanti shanti

translation:

let us be together,
let us eat together,
let us be vital together,
let us be radiating truth, radiating the light of life,
never shall we denounce anyone, never entertain negativity.

jai guru dev

so what about this: the idea is that first one has to establish a mutual togetherness by being together and eating together, and then you get to know someone and the you grow in strength together and something nice starts to develop with mutual admiration (an oppourtunity to see the good in 'ol uncle), then truths of his life and situation and the light will be seen about his situation, ..... already you are feeling sympathetic to him a bit...yes?..... somthing nice will start to grow with him and you.

so this could mean, that it is an opportunity to get to know your uncle and be with him, do things with him and eat with him. grow in a relationship, could take a few days, then once you get to enjoy each other, propbably the topic will come up about that dog, as it is in your mind, so therefore it will get into his mind, and all you appreciate the good qualities about the dogs and his care for them, there must be some good, you already even mentioned some good things, the he will probably mention about his dogs and his worries about them, then you can offer to help, and it will be a great new opening for him and you and granny to have all this love flowing in the yard and home.

what do you think?

you have a kind heart and open attitude to try and find something nice in all this. it is very clear from your post.

[hope108]

so now i've read all the posts, i see that steps have been taken to save the pups. sometimes people that are very insecure (like dear uncle), like to act like they know alot, like how to take care of pups. it is just because they are insecure that they put on these airs. one can only feel sorry for them. when we are in a situation closely, it is more hard to see the bigger picture, like god would see it, but you do show a huge amount of compassion for dear uncle and maybe your kind attention on his miserable situation will help him. 'fear and anger, know these to be the enemies here on earth' - bhagavad gita

maybe he wont know it is you who called the people to come look. so the possibility of a nice relationship can grow.

good luck kind hearted one.....xoxoxo

[grs9769]

hi marbu13,



i have to say i feel the comment posted by grs9769 was a little harsh and pushes the ball back in your court, especially when you obviously needed some advice.


matt

i was simply stating my opinion. it's true i didn't "sugar coat" it, but if you read what i said, it's just very bluntly stating what i think. that's much different than harsh. i do apologize if i offended anyone, it really was not my intention. ;)

[Matthew Clark]

i am not offended and i offer you my apologies if that was how it come across to you.

we are all entitled to our own opinions, that way we learn from each other and grow, hopefully together.

group hug! :)

[grs9769]

no apology needed :) sometimes i'm blunt and have to remember how it can come across online! haha

i noticed that was your 111th post! cool. love that number eleven! :)

[noppy]

maybe the question isn't about what we think is right for the animals, plants or humans but what they think is right for themselves.

aslong as you know ther higher purpose. if dying is one of them, than let them be. if living is one of them, than you might save it. just remember what the soul wants for it self and you will have your answer