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Dennis
02-07-2001, 08:45 PM
are we here to defend david? i think not. if someone decides it is
necessary to attack david, he would simply turn the other cheek and
offer it to his attacker. because david knows that when he is being
attacked, it is not him that is being attacked. he knows that the
attacker is attacking their own self. however, fa fa fooey was not
attacking, but merely expressing an opinion and has every right to do
so. david would welcome attacks and full expression of opinions
knowing that deep down there is truth in what was expressed. truth
that applies to all of here in this discussion.

no one is perfect least of myself, david, or any of us. jesus was not
perfect either and anyone who thinks he was is mistaken. he was a man
like all of us. he made mistakes like we all do. the smart person is
the one who learns from his/her mistakes so they don't continue over
and over again. the person who learns from mistakes "rises above".
this person "honors" all opinions and try to see things from the
others "point of view" (perspective). this person welcomes "attacks"
and lower their defenses knowing full well that their is still a
certain part of them that requires healing. s/he knows that s/he is
simply looking in the mirror which reflects themself, for their is
no difference. so i say again. when you attack someone, you are
attacking your own self, because we are one!

oneness is the essense of david's teachings. this is the message david
is conveying, not who makes the grade! david is trying to change
anyone, nor should he try for he knows this is futile. for mellenia
has mankind been trying to change everyone else into believing or
thinking what they believe. and we have killed in the name of god over
religion, land, jeaolusy, greed, you name it. we have killed for it.
this is self-ishness (cause) and we simply need to look at our
world to see the (effect) of it. not a judgement, simply an
observation, because to make a judgement, would be to condemn
ourselves and god's creation. we simply need to see the perfection all
around us and know that we are all part of the master plan.

we are seeking to become god. that is the soul path. of course their
are fast slow paths, but we honor all. we do not get to a higher level
and never look back. we get to a higher level and we hold the ladder
so others do not slip. if they, do we offer them our hand. and if they
fall off the ladder, we jump off to help them. we always honor
and respect their decision. no help is given until it is asked for.
this is the universal law of non-intervention. this is unconditional
love because it allows freedom of choice. freedom is love.


if you want to change the world, change your-self first! and this is a
great truth. you do not have be perfect to speak of perfection. there
is a difference between speaking your mind and speaking from your
heart, neither of which is less perfect than the other. anger is
fear expressed. f.e.a.r is false evidence appearing real. fear and
guilt are the only true enemies of man. we have nothing to fear but
fear itself. when our consciousness is in a state of fear, it is said
that we are "sucking energy" thus losing it and that is why we "feel"
drained. when we in a state of love, we are constantly "giving energy"
and it is constantly replaced by the universe. the universe is a
constant supply of loving energy which is being poured on the planet
earth at this time. please don't worry about ascension. god assures
us that all paths lead home! this is good news.

David Wilcock
02-07-2001, 09:13 PM
<table bgcolor="#ffffff">
><font face="arial" size="2">dennis, you've become much more eloquent and i notice that you no longer use the</font>
><font face="arial" size="2">label that you used to always write after your name regarding your job - it's only</font>
><font face="arial" size="2">necessary to be you, the oneness, not to give in to representation. your studies</font>
><font face="arial" size="2">of my work, cathie, jon peniel and neale donald walsch have obviously paid</font>
><font face="arial" size="2">richly in their dividends.</font>
><font face="arial" size="2"></font>
><font face="arial" size="2">i truly appreciate you and everyone else who makes my job easier so that i can</font>
><font face="arial" size="2">continue to serve to my highest capacity.</font>
><font face="arial" size="2"></font>
><font face="arial" size="2">peace be with you -</font>
><font face="arial" size="2"></font>
><font face="arial" size="2">- david</font>
<blockquote style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left: #000000 2px solid; margin-right: 0px">
style="font: 10pt arial">----- original message -----
style="background: #e4e4e4; font: 10pt arial; font-color: black">from: dennis (dholmes@kronos.com)
style="font: 10pt arial">to: asc2k@yahoogroups.com
style="font: 10pt arial">sent: wednesday, february 07, 2001 11:45 pm
style="font: 10pt arial">subject: [asc2k] freedom = love
>
<tt>are we here to defend david? i think not. if someone decides it is
necessary to attack david, he would simply turn the other cheek and
offer it to his attacker. because david knows that when he is being
attacked, it is not him that is being attacked. he knows that the
attacker is attacking their own self. however, fa fa fooey was not
attacking, but merely expressing an opinion and has every right to do
so. david would welcome attacks and full expression of opinions
knowing that deep down there is truth in what was expressed. truth
that applies to all of here in this discussion.

no one is perfect least of myself, david, or any of us. jesus was not
perfect either and anyone who thinks he was is mistaken. he was a man
like all of us. he made mistakes like we all do. the smart person is
the one who learns from his/her mistakes so they don't continue over
and over again. the person who learns from mistakes "rises above".
this person "honors" all opinions and try to see things from the
others "point of view" (perspective). this person welcomes "attacks"
and lower their defenses knowing full well that their is still a
certain part of them that requires healing. s/he knows that s/he is
simply looking in the mirror which reflects themself, for their is
no difference. so i say again. when you attack someone, you are
attacking your own self, because we are one!

oneness is the essense of david's teachings. this is the message david
is conveying, not who makes the grade! david is trying to change
anyone, nor should he try for he knows this is futile. for mellenia
has mankind been trying to change everyone else into believing or
thinking what they believe. and we have killed in the name of god over
religion, land, jeaolusy, greed, you name it. we have killed for it.
this is self-ishness (cause) and we simply need to look at our
world to see the (effect) of it. not a judgement, simply an
observation, because to make a judgement, would be to condemn
ourselves and god's creation. we simply need to see the perfection all
around us and know that we are all part of the master plan.

we are seeking to become god. that is the soul path. of course their
are fast slow paths, but we honor all. we do not get to a higher level
and never look back. we get to a higher level and we hold the ladder
so others do not slip. if they, do we offer them our hand. and if they
fall off the ladder, we jump off to help them. we always honor
and respect their decision. no help is given until it is asked for.
this is the universal law of non-intervention. this is unconditional
love because it allows freedom of choice. freedom is love.


if you want to change the world, change your-self first! and this is a
great truth. you do not have be perfect to speak of perfection. there
is a difference between speaking your mind and speaking from your
heart, neither of which is less perfect than the other. anger is
fear expressed. f.e.a.r is false evidence appearing real. fear and
guilt are the only true enemies of man. we have nothing to fear but
fear itself. when our consciousness is in a state of fear, it is said
that we are "sucking energy" thus losing it and that is why we "feel"
drained. when we in a state of love, we are constantly "giving energy"
and it is constantly replaced by the universe. the universe is a
constant supply of loving energy which is being poured on the planet
earth at this time. please don't worry about ascension. god assures
us that all paths lead home! this is good news.


</tt>

<tt>to unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com

</tt>
</blockquote>

Jeremy Weiland
02-08-2001, 06:54 AM
<table bgcolor="#ffffff">
><font size="2"> well said, dennis. i would be crazy to deny what you are saying. i am most grateful for having this list, as it has provided pointed catalyst consistently. i *think* i am starting to use this catalyst productively, by opening up to the fact that what i see as wrong or annoying is a part of myself that i have not integrated. starting to conciously integrate these aspects through meditation has been a quantum leap for my own progress, which for a while was a little stagnant. so my first point is that i am quite aware of the emotions that i often display (though i try to remain objective) and appreciate your wisdom on being at peace with things that would anger me. this point is well taken.</font>
><font size="2"> when i responded to jason's post, however, i had two ideas that i wanted to share. the first was the above idea about anger. the second was the factual misrepresentation made. if someone distorts knowledge in some way, it seems right for another to set that straight, and if the two disagree, for discussion to entail over this until an agreement can be reached on the topic. what happened was that i showed some places in his judgement of david's work where he had overlooked critical points, and these points were not addressed. fine, you don't have to participate in the dialogue, but at least take responsibility for what you say. this is not just something unique to the asc2k list, but it is important anytime you have communication. this was a far more important point and i guess it wasn't the one that was stressed maybe. oh well. </font>
><font size="2"> anyway, i'm at peace now with everything (i think) and hope y'all are too. next time i promise i'll be more mature! heh heh</font>
><font size="2"> word,</font>
><font size="2"> jeremy</font>
><font size="2"> </font>
<blockquote style="border-left: #000000 2px solid; margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px">
><font face="arial" size="2">-----original message-----
from: dennis <dholmes@kronos.com>
to: asc2k@yahoogroups.com <asc2k@yahoogroups.com>
date: wednesday, february 07, 2001 11:46 pm
subject: [asc2k] freedom = love

</font><tt>are we here to defend david? i think not. if someone decides it is
necessary to attack david, he would simply turn the other cheek and
offer it to his attacker. because david knows that when he is being
attacked, it is not him that is being attacked. he knows that the
attacker is attacking their own self. however, fa fa fooey was not
attacking, but merely expressing an opinion and has every right to do
so. david would welcome attacks and full expression of opinions
knowing that deep down there is truth in what was expressed. truth
that applies to all of here in this discussion.

no one is perfect least of myself, david, or any of us. jesus was not
perfect either and anyone who thinks he was is mistaken. he was a man
like all of us. he made mistakes like we all do. the smart person is
the one who learns from his/her mistakes so they don't continue over
and over again. the person who learns from mistakes "rises above".
this person "honors" all opinions and try to see things from the
others "point of view" (perspective). this person welcomes "attacks"
and lower their defenses knowing full well that their is still a
certain part of them that requires healing. s/he knows that s/he is
simply looking in the mirror which reflects themself, for their is
no difference. so i say again. when you attack someone, you are
attacking your own self, because we are one!

oneness is the essense of david's teachings. this is the message david
is conveying, not who makes the grade! david is trying to change
anyone, nor should he try for he knows this is futile. for mellenia
has mankind been trying to change everyone else into believing or
thinking what they believe. and we have killed in the name of god over
religion, land, jeaolusy, greed, you name it. we have killed for it.
this is self-ishness (cause) and we simply need to look at our
world to see the (effect) of it. not a judgement, simply an
observation, because to make a judgement, would be to condemn
ourselves and god's creation. we simply need to see the perfection all
around us and know that we are all part of the master plan.

we are seeking to become god. that is the soul path. of course their
are fast slow paths, but we honor all. we do not get to a higher level
and never look back. we get to a higher level and we hold the ladder
so others do not slip. if they, do we offer them our hand. and if they
fall off the ladder, we jump off to help them. we always honor
and respect their decision. no help is given until it is asked for.
this is the universal law of non-intervention. this is unconditional
love because it allows freedom of choice. freedom is love.


if you want to change the world, change your-self first! and this is a
great truth. you do not have be perfect to speak of perfection. there
is a difference between speaking your mind and speaking from your
heart, neither of which is less perfect than the other. anger is
fear expressed. f.e.a.r is false evidence appearing real. fear and
guilt are the only true enemies of man. we have nothing to fear but
fear itself. when our consciousness is in a state of fear, it is said
that we are "sucking energy" thus losing it and that is why we "feel"
drained. when we in a state of love, we are constantly "giving energy"
and it is constantly replaced by the universe. the universe is a
constant supply of loving energy which is being poured on the planet
earth at this time. please don't worry about ascension. god assures
us that all paths lead home! this is good news.


</tt>

<tt>to unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com

</tt>
</blockquote>

Donn.Byrne@...
02-08-2001, 05:09 PM
hi, jeremy:

i would bet money you are a young man (but quite an earnest and
sincere one, too). learning to temper one's intensity is a process
which gets easier with age and, of course, application. the only way
to convince an adversary of anything is to find something in their
argument with which you agree and add something to it. only then
might they feel secure enough to allow you to gently express your
point of view. one never, ever convinces another person of anything;
they see your point of view only of their own accord.

now, that having been said, take your head out of wilcock's butt long
enough to see that you chased away someone who clearly had something
to offer, and contemplate the irony that the them-and-us mindset
which was being gently pointed out was the very thing you affirmed.

you're still a hell of a nice guy, though.

x

--- in asc2k@y..., "jeremy weiland" <jweiland@n...> wrote:
> well said, dennis. i would be crazy to deny what you are
saying. i am most grateful for having this list, as it has provided
pointed catalyst consistently. i *think* i am starting to use this
catalyst productively, by opening up to the fact that what i see as
wrong or annoying is a part of myself that i have not integrated.
starting to conciously integrate these aspects through meditation has
been a quantum leap for my own progress, which for a while was a
little stagnant. so my first point is that i am quite aware of the
emotions that i often display (though i try to remain objective) and
appreciate your wisdom on being at peace with things that would anger
me. this point is well taken.
> when i responded to jason's post, however, i had two ideas that
i wanted to share. the first was the above idea about anger. the
second was the factual misrepresentation made. if someone distorts
knowledge in some way, it seems right for another to set that
straight, and if the two disagree, for discussion to entail over this
until an agreement can be reached on the topic. what happened was
that i showed some places in his judgement of david's work where he
had overlooked critical points, and these points were not addressed.
fine, you don't have to participate in the dialogue, but at least
take responsibility for what you say. this is not just something
unique to the asc2k list, but it is important anytime you have
communication. this was a far more important point and i guess it
wasn't the one that was stressed maybe. oh well.
> anyway, i'm at peace now with everything (i think) and hope
y'all are too. next time i promise i'll be more mature! heh heh
> word,
> jeremy
>
> -----original message-----
> from: dennis <dholmes@k...>
> to: asc2k@y... <asc2k@y...>
> date: wednesday, february 07, 2001 11:46 pm
> subject: [asc2k] freedom = love
>
>
> are we here to defend david? i think not. if someone decides it
is
> necessary to attack david, he would simply turn the other cheek
and
> offer it to his attacker. because david knows that when he is
being
> attacked, it is not him that is being attacked. he knows that the
> attacker is attacking their own self. however, fa fa fooey was
not
> attacking, but merely expressing an opinion and has every right
to do
> so. david would welcome attacks and full expression of opinions
> knowing that deep down there is truth in what was expressed.
truth
> that applies to all of here in this discussion.
>
> no one is perfect least of myself, david, or any of us. jesus was
not
> perfect either and anyone who thinks he was is mistaken. he was a
man
> like all of us. he made mistakes like we all do. the smart person
is
> the one who learns from his/her mistakes so they don't continue
over
> and over again. the person who learns from mistakes "rises
above".
> this person "honors" all opinions and try to see things from the
> others "point of view" (perspective). this person welcomes
"attacks"
> and lower their defenses knowing full well that their is still a
> certain part of them that requires healing. s/he knows that s/he
is
> simply looking in the mirror which reflects themself, for their
is
> no difference. so i say again. when you attack someone, you are
> attacking your own self, because we are one!
>
> oneness is the essense of david's teachings. this is the message
david
> is conveying, not who makes the grade! david is trying to change
> anyone, nor should he try for he knows this is futile. for
mellenia
> has mankind been trying to change everyone else into believing or
> thinking what they believe. and we have killed in the name of god
over
> religion, land, jeaolusy, greed, you name it. we have killed for
it.
> this is self-ishness (cause) and we simply need to look at our
> world to see the (effect) of it. not a judgement, simply an
> observation, because to make a judgement, would be to condemn
> ourselves and god's creation. we simply need to see the
perfection all
> around us and know that we are all part of the master plan.
>
> we are seeking to become god. that is the soul path. of course
their
> are fast slow paths, but we honor all. we do not get to a higher
level
> and never look back. we get to a higher level and we hold the
ladder
> so others do not slip. if they, do we offer them our hand. and if
they
> fall off the ladder, we jump off to help them. we always honor
> and respect their decision. no help is given until it is asked
for.
> this is the universal law of non-intervention. this is
unconditional
> love because it allows freedom of choice. freedom is love.
>
>
> if you want to change the world, change your-self first! and this
is a
> great truth. you do not have be perfect to speak of perfection.
there
> is a difference between speaking your mind and speaking from your
> heart, neither of which is less perfect than the other. anger is
> fear expressed. f.e.a.r is false evidence appearing real. fear
and
> guilt are the only true enemies of man. we have nothing to fear
but
> fear itself. when our consciousness is in a state of fear, it is
said
> that we are "sucking energy" thus losing it and that is why we
"feel"
> drained. when we in a state of love, we are constantly "giving
energy"
> and it is constantly replaced by the universe. the universe is a
> constant supply of loving energy which is being poured on the
planet
> earth at this time. please don't worry about ascension. god
assures
> us that all paths lead home! this is good news.
>
>
>
> yahoo! groups sponsor
>
> grab the opportunity to market your company. choose
the domain name below and press go!
> www.
>
>
>
>
> to unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postid=2ul8ypnmdx-mhf7oomyk0emauo5gbaokc9hiyxyskzcsikqfqrfnoxagi2838 rrd6dde34iopdk4gssvsueksfqk-5ctzb5v)

Jeremy Weiland
02-08-2001, 07:43 PM
<table bgcolor="#ffffff">
><font size="2">yeah, well... point taken. i see that you use the very concepts you're talking about to make me "feel secure" and they worked. is it ok that someone distorts david's work and nobody provides a counterbalance to that? i mean this quite seriously, as i am not sure. maybe i shouldcalm down and let conversation flow. it's not so much that i *need* to oppose all different points ofview (hardly that!) but i truly do not want david to have to get depressed or stop his work to correct errors promulgated on the list. </font>
><font size="2">i love the freedom we have to go off into all different aspects of conversation, but the bottom line is that this is the ascension2000 list, and what goes on here does reflect on david. i'm not ta</font><font face="arial" size="2">lking about interpretations and opinions, but honest to goodness factual errors, and sweeping, negative statements. </font>
><font face="arial" size="2">so, just so i'm clear, you're saying that i should not have offered my opinions on his work, and not have had a problem with errors in david's work being left uncorrected? i mean, it would be much easier if i didn't have to worry about it... :-)</font>
><font size="2">one more thing... i hardly think i chased him away. not only is he still a list member (cause i checked) but you could just as easily have surmised that *his* post could have turned me off to the list, couldn't you? the point is to have a civil, informed discussion, not that nobody's feelings are going to get hurt, though i am all for avoiding that.</font>
><font size="2">but what you're saying has merit. but head up his ass?</font>
><font size="2">that's a first. :-)</font>
><font size="2">how compassionate of you <g></font>
><font size="2">l/l</font>
><font size="2">jeremy</font>
><font face="arial" size="2">-----original message-----
from: donn.byrne@goldbergkohn.com <donn.byrne@goldbergkohn.com>
to: asc2k@yahoogroups.com <asc2k@yahoogroups.com>
date: thursday, february 08, 2001 8:11 pm
subject: [asc2k] re: freedom = love


<blockquote style="border-left: #000000 2px solid; margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px"></font><tt>hi, jeremy:

i would bet money you are a young man (but quite an earnest and
sincere one, too). learning to temper one's intensity is a process
which gets easier with age and, of course, application. the only way
to convince an adversary of anything is to find something in their
argument with which you agree and add something to it. only then
might they feel secure enough to allow you to gently express your
point of view. one never, ever convinces another person of anything;
they see your point of view only of their own accord.

now, that having been said, take your head out of wilcock's butt long
enough to see that you chased away someone who clearly had something
to offer, and contemplate the irony that the them-and-us mindset
which was being gently pointed out was the very thing you affirmed.

you're still a hell of a nice guy, though.

x

--- in asc2k@y..., "jeremy weiland" <jweiland@n...> wrote:
> well said, dennis. i would be crazy to deny what you are
saying. i am most grateful for having this list, as it has provided
pointed catalyst consistently. i *think* i am starting to use this
catalyst productively, by opening up to the fact that what i see as
wrong or annoying is a part of myself that i have not integrated.
starting to conciously integrate these aspects through meditation has
been a quantum leap for my own progress, which for a while was a
little stagnant. so my first point is that i am quite aware of the
emotions that i often display (though i try to remain objective) and
appreciate your wisdom on being at peace with things that would anger
me. this point is well taken.
> when i responded to jason's post, however, i had two ideas that
i wanted to share. the first was the above idea about anger. the
second was the factual misrepresentation made. if someone distorts
knowledge in some way, it seems right for another to set that
straight, and if the two disagree, for discussion to entail over this
until an agreement can be reached on the topic. what happened was
that i showed some places in his judgement of david's work where he
had overlooked critical points, and these points were not addressed.
fine, you don't have to participate in the dialogue, but at least
take responsibility for what you say. this is not just something
unique to the asc2k list, but it is important anytime you have
communication. this was a far more important point and i guess it
wasn't the one that was stressed maybe. oh well.
> anyway, i'm at peace now with everything (i think) and hope
y'all are too. next time i promise i'll be more mature! heh heh
> word,
> jeremy
>
> -----original message-----
> from: dennis <dholmes@k...>
> to: asc2k@y... <asc2k@y...>
> date: wednesday, february 07, 2001 11:46 pm
> subject: [asc2k] freedom = love
>
>
> are we here to defend david? i think not. if someone decides it
is
> necessary to attack david, he would simply turn the other cheek
and
> offer it to his attacker. because david knows that when he is
being
> attacked, it is not him that is being attacked. he knows that the
> attacker is attacking their own self. however, fa fa fooey was
not
> attacking, but merely expressing an opinion and has every right
to do
> so. david would welcome attacks and full expression of opinions
> knowing that deep down there is truth in what was expressed.
truth
> that applies to all of here in this discussion.
>
> no one is perfect least of myself, david, or any of us. jesus was
not
> perfect either and anyone who thinks he was is mistaken. he was a
man
> like all of us. he made mistakes like we all do. the smart person
is
> the one who learns from his/her mistakes so they don't continue
over
> and over again. the person who learns from mistakes "rises
above".
> this person "honors" all opinions and try to see things from the
> others "point of view" (perspective). this person welcomes
"attacks"
> and lower their defenses knowing full well that their is still a
> certain part of them that requires healing. s/he knows that s/he
is
> simply looking in the mirror which reflects themself, for their
is
> no difference. so i say again. when you attack someone, you are
> attacking your own self, because we are one!
>
> oneness is the essense of david's teachings. this is the message
david
> is conveying, not who makes the grade! david is trying to change
> anyone, nor should he try for he knows this is futile. for
mellenia
> has mankind been trying to change everyone else into believing or
> thinking what they believe. and we have killed in the name of god
over
> religion, land, jeaolusy, greed, you name it. we have killed for
it.
> this is self-ishness (cause) and we simply need to look at our
> world to see the (effect) of it. not a judgement, simply an
> observation, because to make a judgement, would be to condemn
> ourselves and god's creation. we simply need to see the
perfection all
> around us and know that we are all part of the master plan.
>
> we are seeking to become god. that is the soul path. of course
their
> are fast slow paths, but we honor all. we do not get to a higher
level
> and never look back. we get to a higher level and we hold the
ladder
> so others do not slip. if they, do we offer them our hand. and if
they
> fall off the ladder, we jump off to help them. we always honor
> and respect their decision. no help is given until it is asked
for.
> this is the universal law of non-intervention. this is
unconditional
> love because it allows freedom of choice. freedom is love.
>
>
> if you want to change the world, change your-self first! and this
is a
> great truth. you do not have be perfect to speak of perfection.
there
> is a difference between speaking your mind and speaking from your
> heart, neither of which is less perfect than the other. anger is
> fear expressed. f.e.a.r is false evidence appearing real. fear
and
> guilt are the only true enemies of man. we have nothing to fear
but
> fear itself. when our consciousness is in a state of fear, it is
said
> that we are "sucking energy" thus losing it and that is why we
"feel"
> drained. when we in a state of love, we are constantly "giving
energy"
> and it is constantly replaced by the universe. the universe is a
> constant supply of loving energy which is being poured on the
planet
> earth at this time. please don't worry about ascension. god
assures
> us that all paths lead home! this is good news.
>
>
>
> yahoo! groups sponsor
>
> grab the opportunity to market your company. choose
the domain name below and press go!
> www.
>
>
>
>
> to unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com

</tt>

<tt>to unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com

</tt>
</blockquote>

Donn.Byrne@...
02-08-2001, 10:18 PM
sorry, buddy. i'm not biting. this style of debate is neither to my
taste nor to my liking. shouting down a well always makes me hoarse,
which, incidentally, was the only subtext of my response.

x

--- in asc2k@y..., "jeremy weiland" <jweiland@n...> wrote:
> yeah, well... point taken. i see that you use the very concepts
you're talking about to make me "feel secure" and they worked. is it
ok that someone distorts david's work and nobody provides a
counterbalance to that? i mean this quite seriously, as i am not
sure. maybe i should calm down and let conversation flow. it's not
so much that i *need* to oppose all different points of view (hardly
that!) but i truly do not want david to have to get depressed or stop
his work to correct errors promulgated on the list.
> i love the freedom we have to go off into all different aspects of
conversation, but the bottom line is that this is the ascension2000
list, and what goes on here does reflect on david. i'm not talking
about interpretations and opinions, but honest to goodness factual
errors, and sweeping, negative statements.
> so, just so i'm clear, you're saying that i should not have offered
my opinions on his work, and not have had a problem with errors in
david's work being left uncorrected? i mean, it would be much easier
if i didn't have to worry about it... :-)
> one more thing... i hardly think i chased him away. not only is he
still a list member (cause i checked) but you could just as easily
have surmised that *his* post could have turned me off to the list,
couldn't you? the point is to have a civil, informed discussion, not
that nobody's feelings are going to get hurt, though i am all for
avoiding that.
> but what you're saying has merit. but head up his ass?
> that's a first. :-)
> how compassionate of you <g>
> l/l
> jeremy
> -----original message-----
> from: donn.byrne@g... <donn.byrne@g...>
> to: asc2k@y... <asc2k@y...>
> date: thursday, february 08, 2001 8:11 pm
> subject: [asc2k] re: freedom = love
>
>
> hi, jeremy:
>
> i would bet money you are a young man (but quite an earnest and
> sincere one, too). learning to temper one's intensity is a
process
> which gets easier with age and, of course, application. the only
way
> to convince an adversary of anything is to find something in their
> argument with which you agree and add something to it. only then
> might they feel secure enough to allow you to gently express your
> point of view.
>
> now, that having been said, take your head out of wilcock's butt
long
> enough to see that you chased away someone who clearly had
something
> to offer, and contemplate the irony that the them-and-us mindset
> which was being gently pointed out was the very thing you
affirmed.
>
> you're still a hell of a nice guy, though.
>
> x
>
> --- in asc2k@y..., "jeremy weiland" <jweiland@n...> wrote:
> > well said, dennis. i would be crazy to deny what you are
> saying. i am most grateful for having this list, as it has
provided
> pointed catalyst consistently. i *think* i am starting to use
this
> catalyst productively, by opening up to the fact that what i see
as
> wrong or annoying is a part of myself that i have not integrated.

> starting to conciously integrate these aspects through meditation
has
> been a quantum leap for my own progress, which for a while was a
> little stagnant. so my first point is that i am quite aware of
the
> emotions that i often display (though i try to remain objective)
and
> appreciate your wisdom on being at peace with things that would
anger
> me. this point is well taken.
> > when i responded to jason's post, however, i had two ideas
that
> i wanted to share. the first was the above idea about anger. the
> second was the factual misrepresentation made. if someone
distorts
> knowledge in some way, it seems right for another to set that
> straight, and if the two disagree, for discussion to entail over
this
> until an agreement can be reached on the topic. what happened was
> that i showed some places in his judgement of david's work where
he
> had overlooked critical points, and these points were not
addressed.
> fine, you don't have to participate in the dialogue, but at least
> take responsibility for what you say. this is not just something
> unique to the asc2k list, but it is important anytime you have
> communication. this was a far more important point and i guess it
> wasn't the one that was stressed maybe. oh well.
> > anyway, i'm at peace now with everything (i think) and hope
> y'all are too. next time i promise i'll be more mature! heh heh
> > word,
> > jeremy
> >
> > -----original message-----
> > from: dennis <dholmes@k...>
> > to: asc2k@y... <asc2k@y...>
> > date: wednesday, february 07, 2001 11:46 pm
> > subject: [asc2k] freedom = love
> >
> >
> > are we here to defend david? i think not. if someone decides
it
> is
> > necessary to attack david, he would simply turn the other
cheek
> and
> > offer it to his attacker. because david knows that when he is
> being
> > attacked, it is not him that is being attacked. he knows that
the
> > attacker is attacking their own self. however, fa fa fooey was
> not
> > attacking, but merely expressing an opinion and has every
right
> to do
> > so. david would welcome attacks and full expression of
opinions
> > knowing that deep down there is truth in what was expressed.
> truth
> > that applies to all of here in this discussion.
> >
> > no one is perfect least of myself, david, or any of us. jesus
was
> not
> > perfect either and anyone who thinks he was is mistaken. he
was a
> man
> > like all of us. he made mistakes like we all do. the smart
person
> is
> > the one who learns from his/her mistakes so they don't
continue
> over
> > and over again. the person who learns from mistakes "rises
> above".
> > this person "honors" all opinions and try to see things from
the
> > others "point of view" (perspective). this person welcomes
> "attacks"
> > and lower their defenses knowing full well that their is still
a
> > certain part of them that requires healing. s/he knows that
s/he
> is
> > simply looking in the mirror which reflects themself, for
their
> is
> > no difference. so i say again. when you attack someone, you
are
> > attacking your own self, because we are one!
> >
> > oneness is the essense of david's teachings. this is the
message
> david
> > is conveying, not who makes the grade! david is trying to
change
> > anyone, nor should he try for he knows this is futile. for
> mellenia
> > has mankind been trying to change everyone else into believing
or
> > thinking what they believe. and we have killed in the name of
god
> over
> > religion, land, jeaolusy, greed, you name it. we have killed
for
> it.
> > this is self-ishness (cause) and we simply need to look at our
> > world to see the (effect) of it. not a judgement, simply an
> > observation, because to make a judgement, would be to condemn
> > ourselves and god's creation. we simply need to see the
> perfection all
> > around us and know that we are all part of the master plan.
> >
> > we are seeking to become god. that is the soul path. of course
> their
> > are fast slow paths, but we honor all. we do not get to a
higher
> level
> > and never look back. we get to a higher level and we hold the
> ladder
> > so others do not slip. if they, do we offer them our hand. and
if
> they
> > fall off the ladder, we jump off to help them. we always honor
> > and respect their decision. no help is given until it is asked
> for.
> > this is the universal law of non-intervention. this is
> unconditional
> > love because it allows freedom of choice. freedom is love.
> >
> >
> > if you want to change the world, change your-self first! and
this
> is a
> > great truth. you do not have be perfect to speak of
perfection.
> there
> > is a difference between speaking your mind and speaking from
your
> > heart, neither of which is less perfect than the other. anger
is
> > fear expressed. f.e.a.r is false evidence appearing real. fear
> and
> > guilt are the only true enemies of man. we have nothing to
fear
> but
> > fear itself. when our consciousness is in a state of fear, it
is
> said
> > that we are "sucking energy" thus losing it and that is why we
> "feel"
> > drained. when we in a state of love, we are constantly "giving
> energy"
> > and it is constantly replaced by the universe. the universe is
a
> > constant supply of loving energy which is being poured on the
> planet
> > earth at this time. please don't worry about ascension. god
> assures
> > us that all paths lead home! this is good news.
> >
> >
> >
> > yahoo! groups sponsor
> >
> > grab the opportunity to market your company.
choose
> the domain name below and press go!
> > www.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > to unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postid=c3ysks7n81gbnroig3qhdjtfixrttq1o9n3-dbh-s4ebr2q_iknnz4qjypqvf90oydpnz8cwlykufgsmdsjajrdcga )
>
>
> yahoo! groups sponsor
>
> www.
>
>
>
> to unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postid=c3ysks7n81gbnroig3qhdjtfixrttq1o9n3-dbh-s4ebr2q_iknnz4qjypqvf90oydpnz8cwlykufgsmdsjajrdcga )

Jeremy Weiland
02-09-2001, 06:16 AM
<table bgcolor="#ffffff">
><font face="arial" size="2">i don't think you understand where i'm coming from at all!</font>
><font face="arial" size="2">wouldn't be the first time... :-)</font>
><font face="arial" size="2">l/l</font>
><font face="arial" size="2">jeremy</font>
<blockquote style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left: #000000 2px solid; margin-right: 0px">
style="font: 10pt arial">----- original message -----
style="background: #e4e4e4; font: 10pt arial; font-color: black">from: donn.byrne@goldbergkohn.com
style="font: 10pt arial">to: asc2k@yahoogroups.com
style="font: 10pt arial">sent: friday, february 09, 2001 1:18 am
style="font: 10pt arial">subject: [asc2k] re: freedom = love
>
<tt>sorry, buddy. i'm not biting. this style of debate is neither to my
taste nor to my liking. shouting down a well always makes me hoarse,
which, incidentally, was the only subtext of my response.

x

--- in asc2k@y..., "jeremy weiland" <jweiland@n...> wrote:
> yeah, well... point taken. i see that you use the very concepts
you're talking about to make me "feel secure" and they worked. is it
ok that someone distorts david's work and nobody provides a
counterbalance to that? i mean this quite seriously, as i am not
sure. maybe i should calm down and let conversation flow. it's not
so much that i *need* to oppose all different points of view (hardly
that!) but i truly do not want david to have to get depressed or stop
his work to correct errors promulgated on the list.
> i love the freedom we have to go off into all different aspects of
conversation, but the bottom line is that this is the ascension2000
list, and what goes on here does reflect on david. i'm not talking
about interpretations and opinions, but honest to goodness factual
errors, and sweeping, negative statements.
> so, just so i'm clear, you're saying that i should not have offered
my opinions on his work, and not have had a problem with errors in
david's work being left uncorrected? i mean, it would be much easier
if i didn't have to worry about it... :-)
> one more thing... i hardly think i chased him away. not only is he
still a list member (cause i checked) but you could just as easily
have surmised that *his* post could have turned me off to the list,
couldn't you? the point is to have a civil, informed discussion, not
that nobody's feelings are going to get hurt, though i am all for
avoiding that.
> but what you're saying has merit. but head up his ass?
> that's a first. :-)
> how compassionate of you <g>
> l/l
> jeremy
> -----original message-----
> from: donn.byrne@g... <donn.byrne@g...>
> to: asc2k@y... <asc2k@y...>
> date: thursday, february 08, 2001 8:11 pm
> subject: [asc2k] re: freedom = love
>
>
> hi, jeremy:
>
> i would bet money you are a young man (but quite an earnest and
> sincere one, too). learning to temper one's intensity is a
process
> which gets easier with age and, of course, application. the only
way
> to convince an adversary of anything is to find something in their
> argument with which you agree and add something to it. only then
> might they feel secure enough to allow you to gently express your
> point of view.
>
> now, that having been said, take your head out of wilcock's butt
long
> enough to see that you chased away someone who clearly had
something
> to offer, and contemplate the irony that the them-and-us mindset
> which was being gently pointed out was the very thing you
affirmed.
>
> you're still a hell of a nice guy, though.
>
> x
>
> --- in asc2k@y..., "jeremy weiland" <jweiland@n...> wrote:
> > well said, dennis. i would be crazy to deny what you are
> saying. i am most grateful for having this list, as it has
provided
> pointed catalyst consistently. i *think* i am starting to use
this
> catalyst productively, by opening up to the fact that what i see
as
> wrong or annoying is a part of myself that i have not integrated.

> starting to conciously integrate these aspects through meditation
has
> been a quantum leap for my own progress, which for a while was a
> little stagnant. so my first point is that i am quite aware of
the
> emotions that i often display (though i try to remain objective)
and
> appreciate your wisdom on being at peace with things that would
anger
> me. this point is well taken.
> > when i responded to jason's post, however, i had two ideas
that
> i wanted to share. the first was the above idea about anger. the
> second was the factual misrepresentation made. if someone
distorts
> knowledge in some way, it seems right for another to set that
> straight, and if the two disagree, for discussion to entail over
this
> until an agreement can be reached on the topic. what happened was
> that i showed some places in his judgement of david's work where
he
> had overlooked critical points, and these points were not
addressed.
> fine, you don't have to participate in the dialogue, but at least
> take responsibility for what you say. this is not just something
> unique to the asc2k list, but it is important anytime you have
> communication. this was a far more important point and i guess it
> wasn't the one that was stressed maybe. oh well.
> > anyway, i'm at peace now with everything (i think) and hope
> y'all are too. next time i promise i'll be more mature! heh heh
> > word,
> > jeremy
> >
> > -----original message-----
> > from: dennis <dholmes@k...>
> > to: asc2k@y... <asc2k@y...>
> > date: wednesday, february 07, 2001 11:46 pm
> > subject: [asc2k] freedom = love
> >
> >
> > are we here to defend david? i think not. if someone decides
it
> is
> > necessary to attack david, he would simply turn the other
cheek
> and
> > offer it to his attacker. because david knows that when he is
> being
> > attacked, it is not him that is being attacked. he knows that
the
> > attacker is attacking their own self. however, fa fa fooey was
> not
> > attacking, but merely expressing an opinion and has every
right
> to do
> > so. david would welcome attacks and full expression of
opinions
> > knowing that deep down there is truth in what was expressed.
> truth
> > that applies to all of here in this discussion.
> >
> > no one is perfect least of myself, david, or any of us. jesus
was
> not
> > perfect either and anyone who thinks he was is mistaken. he
was a
> man
> > like all of us. he made mistakes like we all do. the smart
person
> is
> > the one who learns from his/her mistakes so they don't
continue
> over
> > and over again. the person who learns from mistakes "rises
> above".
> > this person "honors" all opinions and try to see things from
the
> > others "point of view" (perspective). this person welcomes
> "attacks"
> > and lower their defenses knowing full well that their is still
a
> > certain part of them that requires healing. s/he knows that
s/he
> is
> > simply looking in the mirror which reflects themself, for
their
> is
> > no difference. so i say again. when you attack someone, you
are
> > attacking your own self, because we are one!
> >
> > oneness is the essense of david's teachings. this is the
message
> david
> > is conveying, not who makes the grade! david is trying to
change
> > anyone, nor should he try for he knows this is futile. for
> mellenia
> > has mankind been trying to change everyone else into believing
or
> > thinking what they believe. and we have killed in the name of
god
> over
> > religion, land, jeaolusy, greed, you name it. we have killed
for
> it.
> > this is self-ishness (cause) and we simply need to look at our
> > world to see the (effect) of it. not a judgement, simply an
> > observation, because to make a judgement, would be to condemn
> > ourselves and god's creation. we simply need to see the
> perfection all
> > around us and know that we are all part of the master plan.
> >
> > we are seeking to become god. that is the soul path. of course
> their
> > are fast slow paths, but we honor all. we do not get to a
higher
> level
> > and never look back. we get to a higher level and we hold the
> ladder
> > so others do not slip. if they, do we offer them our hand. and
if
> they
> > fall off the ladder, we jump off to help them. we always honor
> > and respect their decision. no help is given until it is asked
> for.
> > this is the universal law of non-intervention. this is
> unconditional
> > love because it allows freedom of choice. freedom is love.
> >
> >
> > if you want to change the world, change your-self first! and
this
> is a
> > great truth. you do not have be perfect to speak of
perfection.
> there
> > is a difference between speaking your mind and speaking from
your
> > heart, neither of which is less perfect than the other. anger
is
> > fear expressed. f.e.a.r is false evidence appearing real. fear
> and
> > guilt are the only true enemies of man. we have nothing to
fear
> but
> > fear itself. when our consciousness is in a state of fear, it
is
> said
> > that we are "sucking energy" thus losing it and that is why we
> "feel"
> > drained. when we in a state of love, we are constantly "giving
> energy"
> > and it is constantly replaced by the universe. the universe is
a
> > constant supply of loving energy which is being poured on the
> planet
> > earth at this time. please don't worry about ascension. god
> assures
> > us that all paths lead home! this is good news.
> >
> >
> >
> > yahoo! groups sponsor
> >
> > grab the opportunity to market your company.
choose
> the domain name below and press go!
> > www.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > to unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
> yahoo! groups sponsor
>
> www.
>
>
>
> to unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com

</tt>

<tt>to unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com

</tt>
</blockquote>