sirbiotech
03-14-2002, 02:19 PM
david,
i am not familiar with this man, dr. phil's work, but he was on
oprah the other day, and i caught one snipper of the end of a
conversation while "surfing" the tube. dr. phil said
"when people are gossiping? take the position to defend those
who
aren't here to defend themselves". i extensively quote osho,
as he
would obviously be better at defending himself in his own words than
i would at trying to paraphrase his teachings and statements?.so
here goes?
the entire paragraph at the end of your post is as follows, then
i'll break it down into parts and address each section as best i
can at this moment.
dw: "scott gave me some important background on osho that i would
otherwise have not known - after all his degree is in east-west
psychology. this man was originally named bhagavan sri rajneesh,
amassed a tremendous fortune from his followers, drove several rolls
royces from several massive properties and was actually banished from
the us. after this debacle, of which i only know what scott told me,
he changed his name to osho and continued his work overseas. the
goings-on of his followers were legendary in esoteric gossip
circles, and it is very clear that they in no way were repressing or
overcoming their desires, including those most base. that doesn't
mean that his words are without meaning, but it is important context
to keep in mind before using his words to attack ra as service-to-
self."
dw: scott gave me some important background on osho that i would
otherwise have not known - after all his degree is in east-west
psychology.
well, after all?a degree in east-west psychology does not imply a
knowledge of the life of the man named raja-osho. i do not mean this
to be an attack on anyone, but degrees are rather irrelevant in
assessing the intelligence of a man. if i could only tell you how
many "degreed" men i have met who show little awareness of
truth. it would be a long list.
anyway, that comment was not directed to scott specifically, but
let's demonstrate how a man with a degree can make a wide range
of statements, without doing the due diligence to research that which
he is commenting, and how you in turn repeat those things in a manner
which clearly is judgemental on a situation you have also not
investigated to any degree. i'd be lying if i wasn't
disspointed about that, but oh well. i'll state from the outset,
i am
not an osho sanyassin, he is just one of many teachers i have had in
my life. yes i have a love for him as you would for those in your own
life who brought light and clarity into the darkness. no particular
allegience, but i do feel that to misrepresent such a wonderful
teacher as osho is a real disservice. this will be the only time i
respond to defend osho as it really is a wastage of energy, but i
felt compelled. there is enough information here, and the link
provided at the bottom, in addition to the hundreds of books
containing his discourses, that anyone who wishes to find out more on
their own can do so. so?here goes?
1) dw: this man was originally named bhagavan sri rajneesh
jason: yes. i am aware of this.
"during his life, osho was known by several names: raja, as a
child; then rajneesh; acharya rajneesh in the 1960's; bhagwan shree
rajneesh from 1971; from december 1988 there are four name changes;
and from september 1989, he is known simply as 'osho'. he requested
that his name be changed to osho in all new editions of his
books."
2) dw:?(osho) amassed a tremendous fortune from his followers
jason: first off..you use the word "followers" when referring
to osho's sanyassins.
osho: sannyasins are friends not followers. the real master creates
masters, not followers. the real master throws you back to yourself.
his whole effort is to make you independent of him, because you have
been dependent for centuries, and it has not led you anywhere. you
still continue to stumble in the dark night of the soul.only your
inner light can become the sunrise. the false master persuades you to
follow him, to imitate him, to be just a carbon copy of him. the real
master will not allow you to be a carbon copy, he wants you to be the
original. he loves you! how can he make you imitative? he has
compassion for you, he would like you to be utterly free--free from
all outer dependencies.
people even follow, but then too they follow out of misunderstanding.
just by becoming a follower it does not change anything in your life.
it is not a question of following somebody: it is a question of
understanding somebody who is awakened. hence, i don't call you my
followers but only my friends. if you can be my friends, if you can
be in deep love and trust here in my presence, if you can be present
to my presence, if we can face each other and mirror each other,
tremendously important things will start happening of their own
accord--because your heart will understand, and when the heart
understands, immediately transformations happen.
jason: now, regarding the statement that he "amassed a tremendous
fortune" from his sanyassins?
osho amassed a tremendous fortune from the royalties of his books and
tapes. his followers may have donated money to osho, but it was all
given to the commune, not osho. he had his own fortune based on sales
of his "works". he did not own the commune and never laid
claim to any of the moneys that were donated to it. that is a gross
misrepresentation of the facts. besides, if people sent
"donations" to you, as you have previously mentioned you
would appreciate to support your "work" david, would you like
it if
years after it was characterized as "amassing a ..fortune..from
your
followers"?
in any case, that was not the case with osho. he made money from the
sales of his work, just like you may if you are able to sell your
work in barnes and nobles and such. and i truly do hope your book
appears on the bookshelves of the bookstores in my area. it would
make me very happy to see that happen. and if you make money from
sales, i would also be happy because it is well-deserved source of
energy based on the time and significance of what you have produced.
as you said, what we say, where we put our focus?is a mirror of
ourselves, places we need to "clear:" in our own m/b/s
complex.
3) dw:?(osho) drove several rolls royces
jason: i include a long passage to indicate the depth of his approach
and how again, you are not seeing what the point of it, so i feel
obliged to allow osho to answer you for himself.
osho: if they were intelligent enough, they could have understood
that there must be a purpose behind these rolls royces. it cannot be
just the one-hour ride. for that, one rolls royce would have been
enough. everything that i have done in my life has a purpose. it is a
device to bring out something in you of which you are not aware.
people are very much interested in your rolls royces. what do you
want to prove with this, so many cars and so much luxury around you?
why are people concerned? then certainly they need it; then more
rolls royces will be here. until they stop asking me, more and more
rolls royces are going to be here. now it has to be seen that it is a
challenge: the day nobody asks me about rolls royces, they will not
be coming.
people's interest in rolls royces shows their mind. they are not
interested what is happening here. they don't ask about meditation,
they don't ask about sannyas, they don't ask about people's life,
love, the laughter that happens in this desert. they only ask about
rolls royces. that means i have touched some painful nerve. and i
will go on pressing it till they stop asking.
i am not a worshipper of poverty. that's what those rolls royces
prove. i respect wealth. nobody before me had the guts to say it. the
pope cannot say that he respects wealth, although he is the
wealthiest man on the earth.
i am not a hypocrite. i am the poorest man on the earth. i don't have
a single cent with me. but i want to show these people what attracts
their mind. if there were no rolls royces here, perhaps there would
be nothing for the whole world ask about me, about you, about
meditation, about initiation into sannyas, about love, about
anything. it is for those idiots that i am keeping all those rolls
royces, because they cannot move their eyes away from those rolls
royces. and meanwhile i will go on pouring other things in their
minds. without those rolls royces they would not have asked a single
question.
those rolls royces are doing their work. every idiot around the world
is interested in them. and i want them to be somehow interested--in
anything in rajneeshpuram. then we will manage about other things.
so tell those people--when anybody asks, tell them that "these rolls
royces are for you idiots. otherwise you are not interested in
anything." once they stop asking about rolls royces, then i will have
to think of something else, whether to have rockets which are going
to the moon.... i will have to think of something else.
those rolls royces were not produced by the commune. they were
presents from outside, from all over the world. and i was not their
owner--i had given them to the commune. they were commune property,
and i have not brought any of them with me; i have left them with the
commune. everything that i had has been left with the commune. i
never owned anything.
i have not purchased anything from the money produced by the commune
because the commune never produced any money. the commune was
absorbing money.
in fact all my royalties, all my books, all their profits were going
to the commune. the situation is just the opposite--that i had given
everything to the commune. now, four hundred books in different
languages were bringing millions of dollars in royalties, and those
royalties were going to the commune.
if i had wanted to purchase roll royces, i could have purchased my
own rolls royces, as many as i wanted, just out of my royalties.
it is part of my whole device to change the very structure of human
consciousness. the past has revered poverty, asceticism, masochistic
attitudes. a man was respected if he was renouncing all that is
pleasant, all that is comfortable. he was respected for torturing
himself; the greater the torture, the greater the respect. the whole
human past is masochistic, and all the religions have contributed to
this insanity. my effort is to change such a vast past and its
influence. so it has been only a device. i have not been creating
desires for materialistic things in people; they are there without
anybody's creating them. yes, they have been repressed so deeply that
people have even forgotten that they had them. i am not creating
them; i simply want to remove the cover-up, the repression, and to
make the person realize that he wants a rolls royce more than
enlightenment. this realization will be a basic step towards
enlightenment, because it will make him aware of his own reality, his
greed. there was no need for ninety-three rolls royces. i could not
use ninety-three rolls royces simultaneously -- the same model, the
same car. but i wanted to make it clear to you that you would be
ready to drop all your desires for truth, for love, for spiritual
growth to have a rolls royce. i was knowingly creating a situation in
which you would feel jealous. the function of a master is very
strange. he has to help you come to an understanding of your inner
structure of consciousness: it is full of jealousy.
4) dw:?(osho had) several massive properties
jason: osho had 1 large home in montclair which i have seen
personally. not a castle by any stretch of the imagination, although
that's what osho calls it. and the only other property in the us
was his a large ranch in central oregon which he purchased after he
left nj.
osho: "first, we had purchased a very beautiful castle, one
hundred year old, in new jersey. montclair."
"?new jersey was not the right place, it was humid, very humid.
it was beautiful, it is really a garden state--the whole state is a
garden--so i loved it, but my allergy was giving trouble."
"then the ranch in oregon was found, and this suited me."
jason: and he has a one commune in poona, india, his original
commune, and to where he returns after being "deported". all
other communes in the osho name were established by people who
inspired by his teachings and presence, desireing a place to gather
with like-minded souls to meditate.
i am not familiar with this man, dr. phil's work, but he was on
oprah the other day, and i caught one snipper of the end of a
conversation while "surfing" the tube. dr. phil said
"when people are gossiping? take the position to defend those
who
aren't here to defend themselves". i extensively quote osho,
as he
would obviously be better at defending himself in his own words than
i would at trying to paraphrase his teachings and statements?.so
here goes?
the entire paragraph at the end of your post is as follows, then
i'll break it down into parts and address each section as best i
can at this moment.
dw: "scott gave me some important background on osho that i would
otherwise have not known - after all his degree is in east-west
psychology. this man was originally named bhagavan sri rajneesh,
amassed a tremendous fortune from his followers, drove several rolls
royces from several massive properties and was actually banished from
the us. after this debacle, of which i only know what scott told me,
he changed his name to osho and continued his work overseas. the
goings-on of his followers were legendary in esoteric gossip
circles, and it is very clear that they in no way were repressing or
overcoming their desires, including those most base. that doesn't
mean that his words are without meaning, but it is important context
to keep in mind before using his words to attack ra as service-to-
self."
dw: scott gave me some important background on osho that i would
otherwise have not known - after all his degree is in east-west
psychology.
well, after all?a degree in east-west psychology does not imply a
knowledge of the life of the man named raja-osho. i do not mean this
to be an attack on anyone, but degrees are rather irrelevant in
assessing the intelligence of a man. if i could only tell you how
many "degreed" men i have met who show little awareness of
truth. it would be a long list.
anyway, that comment was not directed to scott specifically, but
let's demonstrate how a man with a degree can make a wide range
of statements, without doing the due diligence to research that which
he is commenting, and how you in turn repeat those things in a manner
which clearly is judgemental on a situation you have also not
investigated to any degree. i'd be lying if i wasn't
disspointed about that, but oh well. i'll state from the outset,
i am
not an osho sanyassin, he is just one of many teachers i have had in
my life. yes i have a love for him as you would for those in your own
life who brought light and clarity into the darkness. no particular
allegience, but i do feel that to misrepresent such a wonderful
teacher as osho is a real disservice. this will be the only time i
respond to defend osho as it really is a wastage of energy, but i
felt compelled. there is enough information here, and the link
provided at the bottom, in addition to the hundreds of books
containing his discourses, that anyone who wishes to find out more on
their own can do so. so?here goes?
1) dw: this man was originally named bhagavan sri rajneesh
jason: yes. i am aware of this.
"during his life, osho was known by several names: raja, as a
child; then rajneesh; acharya rajneesh in the 1960's; bhagwan shree
rajneesh from 1971; from december 1988 there are four name changes;
and from september 1989, he is known simply as 'osho'. he requested
that his name be changed to osho in all new editions of his
books."
2) dw:?(osho) amassed a tremendous fortune from his followers
jason: first off..you use the word "followers" when referring
to osho's sanyassins.
osho: sannyasins are friends not followers. the real master creates
masters, not followers. the real master throws you back to yourself.
his whole effort is to make you independent of him, because you have
been dependent for centuries, and it has not led you anywhere. you
still continue to stumble in the dark night of the soul.only your
inner light can become the sunrise. the false master persuades you to
follow him, to imitate him, to be just a carbon copy of him. the real
master will not allow you to be a carbon copy, he wants you to be the
original. he loves you! how can he make you imitative? he has
compassion for you, he would like you to be utterly free--free from
all outer dependencies.
people even follow, but then too they follow out of misunderstanding.
just by becoming a follower it does not change anything in your life.
it is not a question of following somebody: it is a question of
understanding somebody who is awakened. hence, i don't call you my
followers but only my friends. if you can be my friends, if you can
be in deep love and trust here in my presence, if you can be present
to my presence, if we can face each other and mirror each other,
tremendously important things will start happening of their own
accord--because your heart will understand, and when the heart
understands, immediately transformations happen.
jason: now, regarding the statement that he "amassed a tremendous
fortune" from his sanyassins?
osho amassed a tremendous fortune from the royalties of his books and
tapes. his followers may have donated money to osho, but it was all
given to the commune, not osho. he had his own fortune based on sales
of his "works". he did not own the commune and never laid
claim to any of the moneys that were donated to it. that is a gross
misrepresentation of the facts. besides, if people sent
"donations" to you, as you have previously mentioned you
would appreciate to support your "work" david, would you like
it if
years after it was characterized as "amassing a ..fortune..from
your
followers"?
in any case, that was not the case with osho. he made money from the
sales of his work, just like you may if you are able to sell your
work in barnes and nobles and such. and i truly do hope your book
appears on the bookshelves of the bookstores in my area. it would
make me very happy to see that happen. and if you make money from
sales, i would also be happy because it is well-deserved source of
energy based on the time and significance of what you have produced.
as you said, what we say, where we put our focus?is a mirror of
ourselves, places we need to "clear:" in our own m/b/s
complex.
3) dw:?(osho) drove several rolls royces
jason: i include a long passage to indicate the depth of his approach
and how again, you are not seeing what the point of it, so i feel
obliged to allow osho to answer you for himself.
osho: if they were intelligent enough, they could have understood
that there must be a purpose behind these rolls royces. it cannot be
just the one-hour ride. for that, one rolls royce would have been
enough. everything that i have done in my life has a purpose. it is a
device to bring out something in you of which you are not aware.
people are very much interested in your rolls royces. what do you
want to prove with this, so many cars and so much luxury around you?
why are people concerned? then certainly they need it; then more
rolls royces will be here. until they stop asking me, more and more
rolls royces are going to be here. now it has to be seen that it is a
challenge: the day nobody asks me about rolls royces, they will not
be coming.
people's interest in rolls royces shows their mind. they are not
interested what is happening here. they don't ask about meditation,
they don't ask about sannyas, they don't ask about people's life,
love, the laughter that happens in this desert. they only ask about
rolls royces. that means i have touched some painful nerve. and i
will go on pressing it till they stop asking.
i am not a worshipper of poverty. that's what those rolls royces
prove. i respect wealth. nobody before me had the guts to say it. the
pope cannot say that he respects wealth, although he is the
wealthiest man on the earth.
i am not a hypocrite. i am the poorest man on the earth. i don't have
a single cent with me. but i want to show these people what attracts
their mind. if there were no rolls royces here, perhaps there would
be nothing for the whole world ask about me, about you, about
meditation, about initiation into sannyas, about love, about
anything. it is for those idiots that i am keeping all those rolls
royces, because they cannot move their eyes away from those rolls
royces. and meanwhile i will go on pouring other things in their
minds. without those rolls royces they would not have asked a single
question.
those rolls royces are doing their work. every idiot around the world
is interested in them. and i want them to be somehow interested--in
anything in rajneeshpuram. then we will manage about other things.
so tell those people--when anybody asks, tell them that "these rolls
royces are for you idiots. otherwise you are not interested in
anything." once they stop asking about rolls royces, then i will have
to think of something else, whether to have rockets which are going
to the moon.... i will have to think of something else.
those rolls royces were not produced by the commune. they were
presents from outside, from all over the world. and i was not their
owner--i had given them to the commune. they were commune property,
and i have not brought any of them with me; i have left them with the
commune. everything that i had has been left with the commune. i
never owned anything.
i have not purchased anything from the money produced by the commune
because the commune never produced any money. the commune was
absorbing money.
in fact all my royalties, all my books, all their profits were going
to the commune. the situation is just the opposite--that i had given
everything to the commune. now, four hundred books in different
languages were bringing millions of dollars in royalties, and those
royalties were going to the commune.
if i had wanted to purchase roll royces, i could have purchased my
own rolls royces, as many as i wanted, just out of my royalties.
it is part of my whole device to change the very structure of human
consciousness. the past has revered poverty, asceticism, masochistic
attitudes. a man was respected if he was renouncing all that is
pleasant, all that is comfortable. he was respected for torturing
himself; the greater the torture, the greater the respect. the whole
human past is masochistic, and all the religions have contributed to
this insanity. my effort is to change such a vast past and its
influence. so it has been only a device. i have not been creating
desires for materialistic things in people; they are there without
anybody's creating them. yes, they have been repressed so deeply that
people have even forgotten that they had them. i am not creating
them; i simply want to remove the cover-up, the repression, and to
make the person realize that he wants a rolls royce more than
enlightenment. this realization will be a basic step towards
enlightenment, because it will make him aware of his own reality, his
greed. there was no need for ninety-three rolls royces. i could not
use ninety-three rolls royces simultaneously -- the same model, the
same car. but i wanted to make it clear to you that you would be
ready to drop all your desires for truth, for love, for spiritual
growth to have a rolls royce. i was knowingly creating a situation in
which you would feel jealous. the function of a master is very
strange. he has to help you come to an understanding of your inner
structure of consciousness: it is full of jealousy.
4) dw:?(osho had) several massive properties
jason: osho had 1 large home in montclair which i have seen
personally. not a castle by any stretch of the imagination, although
that's what osho calls it. and the only other property in the us
was his a large ranch in central oregon which he purchased after he
left nj.
osho: "first, we had purchased a very beautiful castle, one
hundred year old, in new jersey. montclair."
"?new jersey was not the right place, it was humid, very humid.
it was beautiful, it is really a garden state--the whole state is a
garden--so i loved it, but my allergy was giving trouble."
"then the ranch in oregon was found, and this suited me."
jason: and he has a one commune in poona, india, his original
commune, and to where he returns after being "deported". all
other communes in the osho name were established by people who
inspired by his teachings and presence, desireing a place to gather
with like-minded souls to meditate.