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David Wilcock
03-13-2002, 11:56 PM
from: "sirbiotech" <sirbiotech@... (/group/asc2k/post?postid=ysz0fgxfddz5uumu6p4ts4hmq7rlrlippxot68 gbqkinwh27-fpk_n1v3dr-bidvcsrbmfr3wi336a)>


> i have to say, that ra's perspective on desire is actually not in
> tune with my own understanding. in fact based on the quote below, it
> may actually be characterized as a negative or misguided teaching.
> i'll take the liberty of saying this now, i am not really finding
> some of ra's teachings as wise as one would expect from a being
> supposedly so evolved.

dw: hmm... seems we hit a nerve. all good discussions seem to start with
someone getting agitated, sounding off - hence my choice of emphasizing this
most difficult passage to truly understand. it is definitely shock-proof and
a complete, integrated teaching, but it takes a great deal of internal
process to see it, and i like to present challenges, not beads and sandals
feelgood curiosity-feeding material - there's plenty of places to find such
content, and that's not the most useful at this time, given the extremes of
catalyst that we're now in. i'm actually surprised we didn't get more people
willing to get a little belligerent, frankly. oh well, one good one is more
than enough, and once i step up to the plate then the rest of you lurkers
can join in...

so, since it's been "blame ra week" lately, it would seem... what are you
all feeling that you need as a group, in general, that you are not getting?

1. are the changes starting to freak you out and, perhaps, you're indulging
in fear and worry, and not feeling that this implicitly free-will based
perspective is comforting enough?

2. are you afraid to let us know that you're afraid? what about letting
yourself know?

3. are you self-conscious about speaking your true feelings, with the
implicit perception that you'll be judged?

4. do you think that i should show more concern that i do, especially with
the prophecies as given?

ask yourself whether it is ultimately better to exist in a state of fear or
trust and you'll get the answer. remember the cayce quote that said, "you
will know the moment has arrived when even the lightworkers are down on
their knees." i'd say it's getting pre-tty darn close; hence my focus is on
teaching acceptance of the real instead of pining away for a fantasy that
the catalyst will stop. it won't! check out smelyakov's cycle again if you
need proof - the website is now up: www.timeofglobalshift.com

so if you're hurting, it's ok to speak honestly about it. if you think i'm
all distorted, fine... fire away. again - to defend oneself is to reinforce
the perception that there is something in need of defense. just be aware of
my ongoing observation that almost all attacks at me and / or the work are
projections. dr. perls, founder of gestalt therapy, said that analyzing
projection is the single most effective way to reveal a person's own
subconscious issues. a client says, "oh, you're not really listening to me,
you just think i'm a tramp for all those men i slept with." in that case the
subconscious is not listening to its own self-judgment over previous
experiences.

so, here in our public environment, people often work out their own
self-issues by creating straw men out of who they think i am or what i / we
have taught and then blowing them down. if they're too belligerent about it,
then they end up violating the free will of the majority and along comes the
ban - which thankfully has only been used on less than five distinct people.

one personal case in point, (most commonly coming my way from cayce / are
folks who do not really want him to come back unless he is exactly the
same,) is that whenever a person begins to get more integrated, they become
fearless - and "true freedom is often seen by those not free as negative or
evil." most on the 4d level are innate martyrs, i.e. not free but shackled
to the idol of mass-consciousness-perceived obligation, and therefore are
not very good public speakers or leaders as they feel obligated to be meek,
humble, self-effacing, damagingly poor, etc. "if you're not a martyr then
you're not spiritual" is the subconscious bias.

those who do occupy such public roles are typically your service-to-self
varieties, such as politicians. hence, some will say, "oh, you have such a
big ego." that is the projection part - the ego is in the accusation, not in
the person offering all of this service freely to the world. the positive
path does not offer criticism unless specifically requested by the entity in
question. and i'm not directing this at you, jason, more as a general rule
so that people understand that i'm in no way more apt to answer a letter if
it goes on the offense - in fact i'm much less likely to, so as not to
create negative reinforcement. here you have raised some good points,
getting to the core of what this is about, hence another big essay comes
along.

so yes - accept the real instead of pining away for fantasy. don't try to
dissolve when you're in an ape body - that's you! your body! your total,
un-expurgated free will! ascension is a byob party - bring your own body.
yes, it seems stupid. it farts. it gets hungry. it gets pissed off. it needs
to be washed every day or it will stink. brush it with ivy / oak / sumac and
you've got a tremendous rash if you scratch it - (and have fun trying not
to!) a few whiffs of nasty powders and it could drop dead. it needs money,
and the ways to get that money might not be to your liking but it often
seems that the only other option is lack of survival. it wants sex, drugs
and rock and roll - and greasy, sloppy, high-calorie food. it stares at the
television with dull intensity if one is turned on in the room, almost
without fail. ok!

accept it. your body. look at those hands. the real is what you have now; so
go do the dishes! they won't dissolve away on their own. we must work in the
real because that's where we are. look at the space around your computer.
how clean is it? what priority do you place on that order? is this a
reflection of your inner thoughts? have you experienced your desire of
clutter and are now ready to let it fall away? can you see a greater love /
light energetic potential in a clean space as opposed to a messy one? can
you see the futility of trying to "dissolve" if your "house" (i.e. inner
self) isn't cleansed of desire first? can desire be cleansed by being
ignored? think. and think some more. find the anchors that moor you to the
harbor, and by this point work them through without anything but a sitting
meditation. yes, silence, not guided visualization. they will fall away.
hence the word distill.

this is the moment we've all been waiting for... thousands of years and many
lifetimes and we're it, right now. so if this is our last shot at 3d, and we
can work out repressed desires through meditation while we're still here,
i'd say we'd better do it! if they're repressed then you haven't accepted
yourself fully. why do you think i've had to go back to high school so often
in the dream plane? you have to keep repeating it until you get it right. i
strongly desired to actually enjoy my life in high school, so now i must
repeat the whole thing over and over under the same circumstances until i do
enjoy it. and it's finally worked itself out, but it has taken much longer
than i would ever have thought possible. it is a weekly feature in dreams
ever since i started recording them, sometimes several a week...

television is something i definitely know i do not need - as is the case
with processed, toxic food, not accepting myself or being honest with
myself, and so forth. look at the base desires that are being promoted on
tv - sex, violence, drug abuse, abysmal diet, etc. once these have fallen
away, through having experienced them with yourself or with others, (i did
have a few brawls in jrh and high school,) you've distilled the experience,
processed it with love and wisdom and seen that it holds no purpose for you.

i wanted to fight, and others wanted to fight me, so we fought - no
abridgement of free will. i wanted a rather meaningless, desire-based
relationship in my past, so did she, so we created one. i wanted to wreck my
body with intoxicants, no one else but myself was to be hurt, so i did. the
experience i took away from those events led me to have no further desire
for them. you realize that what you have been desiring... sucks.

those who do not work these processes have dreams of fighting, drugging and
having meaningless sex - and if they don't really work that stuff, then
there's a lot more to be done after death. that's why the initiation in the
gp was so scary - you'd end up doing it all at once, and hope that it didn't
kill you in the process. now everything is speeding up; the whole earth is
like a collective king's chamber, as i've already said.

i do want to say that this discussion actually prompted a long conversation
between scott (dr. mandelker) and myself. scott was actually impressed with
your (jason's) observations in the letter earlier today. the key goof that
you made is in not realizing that ra said this was the primary purpose for
third-density... most people in 3d are not "enlightened" at all, they are
simply here to make a choice between service to self (sts) or service to
others (sto.)

choice is everything in 3d - and the quote was about 3d. if you can't
distill the experiences, even if just through imagination, then you can't
make the choice honestly. this is where we do it - where we have a veil and
can make choices based on experience with struggle and suffering. scott
pointed out the key importance of ra's line that says, "to those who wish to
sleep, we shall only provide the comforts for the sleeping." this has a
similar meaning as the "experience all things desired" quote.

to you it might seem abysmally stupid to tell someone to experience what
they desire - but the key is that no harm can truly be done, as each person
meets with what they have created for themselves. there are no victims in a
thought-created illusory world holographically distorted from the love/light
energy of oneness. repetition is the mother of learning - you iron out your
distortions in very minute increments most of the time, hence patience. so
if someone wants to sleep, then they will be given assistance to make it
more comfortable - that's all they desire, and they are free to experience
it. they will be aided, albeit in a small way, based on the strength of
their calling, their desire for service, unity, oneness.

the passage also said to have patience and compassion for yourself - so if
you're hip to karma, hip to not violating others' free will and hip to
self-respect of mind, body and spirit, most of these distilled experiences
will fall away pretty quickly - or at least you can have some fun lying to
yourself for a while about how far you've gone, until some new catalyst
comes in and huffs and puffs and blows your house in.

so i was wondering who here through free will would be inspired to take the
"bait" and distort this one brief passage out of context, which is
forgivable but exactly what i had planned on. jason did a better shock-test
of this passage than i had expected, frankly - we've got some great people
on this list, many of whom hide their light under the rocks too often -
hence the lively conference call. the passage must be seen in lieu of a
balanced and disciplined study of all five books - which admittedly takes at
least months - that's why the study guide is just that... a study guide.

most anyone who would be motivated enough to join this list has long since
transcended the need to experience most of the trappings of desire for the
material world - it has "fallen away," as ra would say. read the entire
excerpt that i posted more carefully, really sit with it, then compare it
with the actual question that was asked to begin with:

"q: much of the mystic tradition of seeking on earth holds the belief that
the individual self must be erased or obliterated and the material world
ignored for the individual to reach 'nirvana,' as it is called, or
enlightenment. what is the proper role of the individual self and its
worldly activities to aid an individual to grow more into the law of one?"

with that question in mind, then review all five paragraphs. this is a very
key oversight that has been made in eastern and other traditions - a
valuable, irreplacable stepping-stone before such 7d personality dissolution
into oneness can be attempted. it's all too common to "jump the gun" and
want to get to z without the other parts of the alphabet in place first. yet
you won't be able to do much writing except zzzzzzz....

another major misunderstanding that you (jason) and many others have is
thinking that there is an ego or a mind to be overcome. scott reminded me
that one of ra's key teachings is that there is no ego. remember that
hydroencephalics have just water in their skulls but can still think - so
the mind is part and parcel of the mind / body / spirit complex, an
interlinked whole. you can't say "i'm going to obliterate the mind and have
a body / spirit complex only." impossible. just accept yourself instead of
thinking that you must kill your-self to live. the mind has all levels of
consciousness working in tandem - we don't overcome anything, we simply
train ourselves to sort out what is coming from where. there's a lot more
from the higher mind in the so-called ego than most people realize - hence
the clock synchs, etc.

the real reason for your outburst is that you've very much felt the need to
suppress or overcome desire. yet, this teaching of ra's is to be understood
more as the true framework for polarization in 3d, which you have long, long
since done. once you know about the law of karma you're obviously not going
to seek to mess with it - as was said, that which is not needed falls away.
the real key, again, is in distilling the experiences with love and wisdom.
and that technique is where the whole rest of the book comes in. if you're
not going to use the mind then you're not going to do it, as that's all
you've got - it's a multidimensional matrix.

so the only real difference now is that you understand how this passage
reveals a deeper level of how to defragment yourself and gain
self-acceptance, love/wisdom and balance. repression creates soul fragments
and if you don't deal with them here in 3d, then you've got a long haul
ahead for the afterdeath / timespace realm. one could attain sufficient
purity of seeking through rigorously overcoming desires to become 4d
harvestable, but you're still going to have the repressed desires left
over - and may decide after leaving the body that another go at 3d is the
best way to deal with them.

the deeper goal is of course to seek that 7d state of "the void" or "pure
awareness," which is beyond the unity of 6d. however, to try to rush the
gates when you still have uncleared desires is folly, as i indicated.

scott gave me some important background on osho that i would otherwise have
not known - after all his degree is in east-west psychology. this man was
originally named bhagavan sri rajneesh, amassed a tremendous fortune from
his followers, drove several rolls royces from several massive properties
and was actually banished from the us. after this debacle, of which i only
know what scott told me, he changed his name to osho and continued his work
overseas. the goings-on of his followers were legendary in esoteric gossip
circles, and it is very clear that they in no way were repressing or
overcoming their desires, including those most base. that doesn't mean that
his words are without meaning, but it is important context to keep in mind
before using his words to attack ra as service-to-self.

these gifts of my time will need to fall away so i can finish these projects
that everyone is waiting for... :)

peace be with you -

- david

Chamil1950@...
03-14-2002, 05:50 AM
in light of what is going on around here, i thought a "feel-good" story is in
order. (this is not about me)

ice cream for the soul

last week i took my children to a restaurant. my six-year-old son asked if he
could say grace. as we bowed our heads he said, "god is good. god is great.
thank you for the food, and i would even thank you more if mom gets us ice cream
for dessert. and liberty and justice for all! amen!"

along with the laughter from the other customers nearby i heard a woman remark.
"that's what's wrong with this country. kids today don't even know how to pray.
asking god for ice-cream! why, i never!"

hearing this, my son burst into tears and asked me, "did i do it wrong? is god
mad at me?"

as i held him and assured him that he had done a terrific job and god was
certainly not mad at him, an elderly gentleman approached the table. he winked
at my son and said, "i happen to know that god thought that was a great prayer."

"really?" my son asked. "cross my heart," the man replied. then in a theatrical
whisper he added (indicating the woman whose remark had started this whole
thing), "too bad she never asks god for ice cream. a little ice cream is good
for the soul sometimes."

naturally, i bought my kid ice cream at the end of the meal. my son stared at
his for a moment and then did something i will remember the rest of my life. he
picked up his sundae and without a word, walked over and placed it in front of
the woman. with a big smile he told her, "here, this is for you. ice cream is
good for the soul sometimes, and my soul is good already."



loved this story...... chris

ctx82003
03-14-2002, 07:24 AM
in view of this discussion, i am reminded that we are living in a
time of grace when our powers of "discernment" are greatly enhanced.
our personal use of our powers of discernment will tells us what is
right for us personally.

then i try to remind myself each day of the "law of least effort" as
espoused by deepak chopra and to remember that i should always
pracice "defenselessness"

"today my awareness will remain established in defenselessness. i
will relinquish the need to defend my point of view. i will feel no
need to convince or persuade others to accept my point of view. i
will remain open to all points of view and not be rigidly attached to
any one of them"

best wishes,
lorin




--- in asc2k@y..., "david wilcock" <djw333@e...> wrote:
> from: "sirbiotech" <sirbiotech@y...>
>
>
> > i have to say, that ra's perspective on desire is actually not in
> > tune with my own understanding. in fact based on the quote below,
it
> > may actually be characterized as a negative or misguided teaching.
> > i'll take the liberty of saying this now, i am not really finding
> > some of ra's teachings as wise as one would expect from a being
> > supposedly so evolved.
>
> dw: hmm... seems we hit a nerve. all good discussions seem to start
with
> someone getting agitated, sounding off - hence my choice of
emphasizing this
> most difficult passage to truly understand. it is definitely shock-
proof and
> a complete, integrated teaching, but it takes a great deal of
internal
> process to see it, and i like to present challenges, not beads and
sandals
> feelgood curiosity-feeding material - there's plenty of places to
find such
> content, and that's not the most useful at this time, given the
extremes of
> catalyst that we're now in. i'm actually surprised we didn't get
more people
> willing to get a little belligerent, frankly. oh well, one good one
is more
> than enough, and once i step up to the plate then the rest of you
lurkers
> can join in...
>
> so, since it's been "blame ra week" lately, it would seem... what
are you
> all feeling that you need as a group, in general, that you are not
getting?
>
> 1. are the changes starting to freak you out and, perhaps, you're
indulging
> in fear and worry, and not feeling that this implicitly free-will
based
> perspective is comforting enough?
>
> 2. are you afraid to let us know that you're afraid? what about
letting
> yourself know?
>
> 3. are you self-conscious about speaking your true feelings, with
the
> implicit perception that you'll be judged?
>
> 4. do you think that i should show more concern that i do,
especially with
> the prophecies as given?
>
> ask yourself whether it is ultimately better to exist in a state of
fear or
> trust and you'll get the answer. remember the cayce quote that
said, "you
> will know the moment has arrived when even the lightworkers are
down on
> their knees." i'd say it's getting pre-tty darn close; hence my
focus is on
> teaching acceptance of the real instead of pining away for a
fantasy that
> the catalyst will stop. it won't! check out smelyakov's cycle again
if you
> need proof - the website is now up: www.timeofglobalshift.com
>
> so if you're hurting, it's ok to speak honestly about it. if you
think i'm
> all distorted, fine... fire away. again - to defend oneself is to
reinforce
> the perception that there is something in need of defense. just be
aware of
> my ongoing observation that almost all attacks at me and / or the
work are
> projections. dr. perls, founder of gestalt therapy, said that
analyzing
> projection is the single most effective way to reveal a person's own
> subconscious issues. a client says, "oh, you're not really
listening to me,
> you just think i'm a tramp for all those men i slept with." in that
case the
> subconscious is not listening to its own self-judgment over previous
> experiences.
>
> so, here in our public environment, people often work out their own
> self-issues by creating straw men out of who they think i am or
what i / we
> have taught and then blowing them down. if they're too belligerent
about it,
> then they end up violating the free will of the majority and along
comes the
> ban - which thankfully has only been used on less than five
distinct people.
>
> one personal case in point, (most commonly coming my way from
cayce / are
> folks who do not really want him to come back unless he is exactly
the
> same,) is that whenever a person begins to get more integrated,
they become
> fearless - and "true freedom is often seen by those not free as
negative or
> evil." most on the 4d level are innate martyrs, i.e. not free but
shackled
> to the idol of mass-consciousness-perceived obligation, and
therefore are
> not very good public speakers or leaders as they feel obligated to
be meek,
> humble, self-effacing, damagingly poor, etc. "if you're not a
martyr then
> you're not spiritual" is the subconscious bias.
>
> those who do occupy such public roles are typically your service-to-
self
> varieties, such as politicians. hence, some will say, "oh, you have
such a
> big ego." that is the projection part - the ego is in the
accusation, not in
> the person offering all of this service freely to the world. the
positive
> path does not offer criticism unless specifically requested by the
entity in
> question. and i'm not directing this at you, jason, more as a
general rule
> so that people understand that i'm in no way more apt to answer a
letter if
> it goes on the offense - in fact i'm much less likely to, so as not
to
> create negative reinforcement. here you have raised some good
points,
> getting to the core of what this is about, hence another big essay
comes
> along.
>
> so yes - accept the real instead of pining away for fantasy. don't
try to
> dissolve when you're in an ape body - that's you! your body! your
total,
> un-expurgated free will! ascension is a byob party - bring your own
body.
> yes, it seems stupid. it farts. it gets hungry. it gets pissed off.
it needs
> to be washed every day or it will stink. brush it with ivy / oak /
sumac and
> you've got a tremendous rash if you scratch it - (and have fun
trying not
> to!) a few whiffs of nasty powders and it could drop dead. it needs
money,
> and the ways to get that money might not be to your liking but it
often
> seems that the only other option is lack of survival. it wants sex,
drugs
> and rock and roll - and greasy, sloppy, high-calorie food. it
stares at the
> television with dull intensity if one is turned on in the room,
almost
> without fail. ok!
>
> accept it. your body. look at those hands. the real is what you
have now; so
> go do the dishes! they won't dissolve away on their own. we must
work in the
> real because that's where we are. look at the space around your
computer.
> how clean is it? what priority do you place on that order? is this a
> reflection of your inner thoughts? have you experienced your desire
of
> clutter and are now ready to let it fall away? can you see a
greater love /
> light energetic potential in a clean space as opposed to a messy
one? can
> you see the futility of trying to "dissolve" if your "house" (i.e.
inner
> self) isn't cleansed of desire first? can desire be cleansed by
being
> ignored? think. and think some more. find the anchors that moor you
to the
> harbor, and by this point work them through without anything but a
sitting
> meditation. yes, silence, not guided visualization. they will fall
away.
> hence the word distill.
>
> this is the moment we've all been waiting for... thousands of years
and many
> lifetimes and we're it, right now. so if this is our last shot at
3d, and we
> can work out repressed desires through meditation while we're still
here,
> i'd say we'd better do it! if they're repressed then you haven't
accepted
> yourself fully. why do you think i've had to go back to high school
so often
> in the dream plane? you have to keep repeating it until you get it
right. i
> strongly desired to actually enjoy my life in high school, so now i
must
> repeat the whole thing over and over under the same circumstances
until i do
> enjoy it. and it's finally worked itself out, but it has taken much
longer
> than i would ever have thought possible. it is a weekly feature in
dreams
> ever since i started recording them, sometimes several a week...
>
> television is something i definitely know i do not need - as is the
case
> with processed, toxic food, not accepting myself or being honest
with
> myself, and so forth. look at the base desires that are being
promoted on
> tv - sex, violence, drug abuse, abysmal diet, etc. once these have
fallen
> away, through having experienced them with yourself or with others,
(i did
> have a few brawls in jrh and high school,) you've distilled the
experience,
> processed it with love and wisdom and seen that it holds no purpose
for you.
>
> i wanted to fight, and others wanted to fight me, so we fought - no
> abridgement of free will. i wanted a rather meaningless, desire-
based
> relationship in my past, so did she, so we created one. i wanted to
wreck my
> body with intoxicants, no one else but myself was to be hurt, so i
did. the
> experience i took away from those events led me to have no further
desire
> for them. you realize that what you have been desiring... sucks.
>
> those who do not work these processes have dreams of fighting,
drugging and
> having meaningless sex - and if they don't really work that stuff,
then
> there's a lot more to be done after death. that's why the
initiation in the
> gp was so scary - you'd end up doing it all at once, and hope that
it didn't
> kill you in the process. now everything is speeding up; the whole
earth is
> like a collective king's chamber, as i've already said.
>
> i do want to say that this discussion actually prompted a long
conversation
> between scott (dr. mandelker) and myself. scott was actually
impressed with
> your (jason's) observations in the letter earlier today. the key
goof that
> you made is in not realizing that ra said this was the primary
purpose for
> third-density... most people in 3d are not "enlightened" at all,
they are
> simply here to make a choice between service to self (sts) or
service to
> others (sto.)
>
> choice is everything in 3d - and the quote was about 3d. if you
can't
> distill the experiences, even if just through imagination, then you
can't
> make the choice honestly. this is where we do it - where we have a
veil and
> can make choices based on experience with struggle and suffering.
scott
> pointed out the key importance of ra's line that says, "to those
who wish to
> sleep, we shall only provide the comforts for the sleeping." this
has a
> similar meaning as the "experience all things desired" quote.
>
> to you it might seem abysmally stupid to tell someone to experience
what
> they desire - but the key is that no harm can truly be done, as
each person
> meets with what they have created for themselves. there are no
victims in a
> thought-created illusory world holographically distorted from the
love/light
> energy of oneness. repetition is the mother of learning - you iron
out your
> distortions in very minute increments most of the time, hence
patience. so
> if someone wants to sleep, then they will be given assistance to
make it
> more comfortable - that's all they desire, and they are free to
experience
> it. they will be aided, albeit in a small way, based on the
strength of
> their calling, their desire for service, unity, oneness.
>
> the passage also said to have patience and compassion for yourself -
so if
> you're hip to karma, hip to not violating others' free will and hip
to
> self-respect of mind, body and spirit, most of these distilled
experiences
> will fall away pretty quickly - or at least you can have some fun
lying to
> yourself for a while about how far you've gone, until some new
catalyst
> comes in and huffs and puffs and blows your house in.
>
> so i was wondering who here through free will would be inspired to
take the
> "bait" and distort this one brief passage out of context, which is
> forgivable but exactly what i had planned on. jason did a better
shock-test
> of this passage than i had expected, frankly - we've got some great
people
> on this list, many of whom hide their light under the rocks too
often -
> hence the lively conference call. the passage must be seen in lieu
of a
> balanced and disciplined study of all five books - which admittedly
takes at
> least months - that's why the study guide is just that... a study
guide.
>
> most anyone who would be motivated enough to join this list has
long since
> transcended the need to experience most of the trappings of desire
for the
> material world - it has "fallen away," as ra would say. read the
entire
> excerpt that i posted more carefully, really sit with it, then
compare it
> with the actual question that was asked to begin with:
>
> "q: much of the mystic tradition of seeking on earth holds the
belief that
> the individual self must be erased or obliterated and the material
world
> ignored for the individual to reach 'nirvana,' as it is called, or
> enlightenment. what is the proper role of the individual self and
its
> worldly activities to aid an individual to grow more into the law
of one?"
>
> with that question in mind, then review all five paragraphs. this
is a very
> key oversight that has been made in eastern and other traditions - a
> valuable, irreplacable stepping-stone before such 7d personality
dissolution
> into oneness can be attempted. it's all too common to "jump the
gun" and
> want to get to z without the other parts of the alphabet in place
first. yet
> you won't be able to do much writing except zzzzzzz....
>
> another major misunderstanding that you (jason) and many others
have is
> thinking that there is an ego or a mind to be overcome. scott
reminded me
> that one of ra's key teachings is that there is no ego. remember
that
> hydroencephalics have just water in their skulls but can still
think - so
> the mind is part and parcel of the mind / body / spirit complex, an
> interlinked whole. you can't say "i'm going to obliterate the mind
and have
> a body / spirit complex only." impossible. just accept yourself
instead of
> thinking that you must kill your-self to live. the mind has all
levels of
> consciousness working in tandem - we don't overcome anything, we
simply
> train ourselves to sort out what is coming from where. there's a
lot more
> from the higher mind in the so-called ego than most people realize -
hence
> the clock synchs, etc.
>
> the real reason for your outburst is that you've very much felt the
need to
> suppress or overcome desire. yet, this teaching of ra's is to be
understood
> more as the true framework for polarization in 3d, which you have
long, long
> since done. once you know about the law of karma you're obviously
not going
> to seek to mess with it - as was said, that which is not needed
falls away.
> the real key, again, is in distilling the experiences with love and
wisdom.
> and that technique is where the whole rest of the book comes in. if
you're
> not going to use the mind then you're not going to do it, as that's
all
> you've got - it's a multidimensional matrix.
>
> so the only real difference now is that you understand how this
passage
> reveals a deeper level of how to defragment yourself and gain
> self-acceptance, love/wisdom and balance. repression creates soul
fragments
> and if you don't deal with them here in 3d, then you've got a long
haul
> ahead for the afterdeath / timespace realm. one could attain
sufficient
> purity of seeking through rigorously overcoming desires to become 4d
> harvestable, but you're still going to have the repressed desires
left
> over - and may decide after leaving the body that another go at 3d
is the
> best way to deal with them.
>
> the deeper goal is of course to seek that 7d state of "the void"
or "pure
> awareness," which is beyond the unity of 6d. however, to try to
rush the
> gates when you still have uncleared desires is folly, as i
indicated.
>
> scott gave me some important background on osho that i would
otherwise have
> not known - after all his degree is in east-west psychology. this
man was
> originally named bhagavan sri rajneesh, amassed a tremendous
fortune from
> his followers, drove several rolls royces from several massive
properties
> and was actually banished from the us. after this debacle, of which
i only
> know what scott told me, he changed his name to osho and continued
his work
> overseas. the goings-on of his followers were legendary in esoteric
gossip
> circles, and it is very clear that they in no way were repressing or
> overcoming their desires, including those most base. that doesn't
mean that
> his words are without meaning, but it is important context to keep
in mind
> before using his words to attack ra as service-to-self.
>
> these gifts of my time will need to fall away so i can finish these
projects
> that everyone is waiting for... :)
>
> peace be with you -
>
> - david

zhing311
03-14-2002, 09:46 AM
thats some pretty good stuff about ra and stuff, but jason had
some good points so i dont think you should pick on him just cause
hes not as smart as you. of course he was asking for it by messing
with ra, i can see why you got mad.




--- in asc2k@y..., "david wilcock" <djw333@e...> wrote:
> from: "sirbiotech" <sirbiotech@y...>
>
>
> > i have to say, that ra's perspective on desire is actually not in
> > tune with my own understanding. in fact based on the quote below,
it
> > may actually be characterized as a negative or misguided teaching.
> > i'll take the liberty of saying this now, i am not really finding
> > some of ra's teachings as wise as one would expect from a being
> > supposedly so evolved.
>
> dw: hmm... seems we hit a nerve. all good discussions seem to start
with
> someone getting agitated, sounding off - hence my choice of
emphasizing this
> most difficult passage to truly understand. it is definitely shock-
proof and
> a complete, integrated teaching, but it takes a great deal of
internal
>

Jeremy Weiland
03-14-2002, 10:51 AM
> thats some pretty good stuff about ra and stuff,
> but jason had
> some good points so i dont think you should pick on
> him just cause
> hes not as smart as you. of course he was asking
> for it by messing
> with ra, i can see why you got mad.

nobody's picking on anybody, at least as far as i can
see... and i'm sure that nobody's mad. just a
difference of opinion. it's not implicit in joining
this group that you have to agree with ra 100%.

people are perfectly free to disagree, as long as they
can be civil about it. i thought jason's response was
quite gracious and humble - he just happened to
disagree with ra. i mean, it wouldn't be beneficial
at all to read ra if it wasn't telling us something we
didn't already know, right?

i think this is one of the most diffused agreements
we've had. and one of the most productive.

peazzout,

jeremy

__________________________________________________
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jgernat@...
03-14-2002, 12:23 PM
<font face="arial,helvetica"><font size="2">lorin,



i affirm that -- you are well established in defenselessness. you are perfectly open and accepting to all possibilities. you are comfortable with all opinions. i see you as having accomplished all this.



peace to you, and yours,

</font>

jgernat@...
03-14-2002, 12:28 PM
<font face="arial,helvetica"><font color="#0000ff" size="2">i think this is one of the most diffused agreements

we've had. and one of the most productive

</font><font color="#000000" size="2" family="sansserif" face="arial" lang="0">

speaking of "agreements."



has any one read "the four agreements" by don miguel ruiz?

</font><font color="#0000ff" size="2" family="sansserif" face="arial" lang="0">



</font>

ctx82003
03-14-2002, 12:49 PM
i guess i was fortunate to have been raised in a very nuturing
catholic environment.

my aunt was a nun and eventually a mother superior at a all girls
parochial pre college school, well known for top notch education.
she also holds a masters degree in mathematics and was a teaching
sister. she is almost 90 now an experiencing the grace of god in her
latter years.

but i always remember my aunt gig, saying grace and always ending it
with "in the name of the father, the son, and the holy ghost, who
eats the fastest gets the most"

we were never taught to approach god in a rigid manner, but rather in
a joyful, trusting manner.

best wishes,
lorin



--- in asc2k@y..., chamil1950@a... wrote:
> in light of what is going on around here, i thought a "feel-good"
story is in order. (this is not about me)
>
> ice cream for the soul
>
> last week i took my children to a restaurant. my six-year-old son
asked if he could say grace. as we bowed our heads he said, "god is
good. god is great. thank you for the food, and i would even thank
you more if mom gets us ice cream for dessert. and liberty and
justice for all! amen!"
>
> along with the laughter from the other customers nearby i heard a
woman remark. "that's what's wrong with this country. kids today
don't even know how to pray. asking god for ice-cream! why, i never!"
>
> hearing this, my son burst into tears and asked me, "did i do it
wrong? is god mad at me?"
>
> as i held him and assured him that he had done a terrific job and
god was certainly not mad at him, an elderly gentleman approached the
table. he winked at my son and said, "i happen to know that god
thought that was a great prayer."
>
> "really?" my son asked. "cross my heart," the man replied. then in
a theatrical whisper he added (indicating the woman whose remark had
started this whole thing), "too bad she never asks god for ice cream.
a little ice cream is good for the soul sometimes."
>
> naturally, i bought my kid ice cream at the end of the meal. my son
stared at his for a moment and then did something i will remember the
rest of my life. he picked up his sundae and without a word, walked
over and placed it in front of the woman. with a big smile he told
her, "here, this is for you. ice cream is good for the soul
sometimes, and my soul is good already."
>
>
>
> loved this story...... chris

David Wilcock
03-14-2002, 02:01 PM
from: "zhing311" <zhing311@... (/group/asc2k/post?postid=a2fteqh1m9a7nax56i4kpad12xf3ofuugt6g3d epruveq-ptufmgwo3w8fqylfpjnf_3zbd--h7v4kav2a)>

> thats some pretty good stuff about ra and stuff, but jason had
> some good points so i dont think you should pick on him just cause
> hes not as smart as you. of course he was asking for it by messing
> with ra, i can see why you got mad.

dw: yikes... is that what you thought was going on? oh the imperfections of
this medium of communication...

jason totally made good points. i had a 1.5 hour conversation with dr.
mandelker just because of that one letter. we agreed that it would be wise
for me to look more into 7d teachings, buddhism, et cetera as it's been a
while since i've really sat with the dhammapada and the tao te ching. i'm
much more sophisticated now than i was before and perhaps there will be some
people who could be ready to hear those types of teachings. my only point
was to say that since progress is slow, i think 5d-6d material is the best
place to focus my efforts to try to have the widest "bandwidth" of
comprehensibility to the average spiritual reader.

i wasn't mad at all, so that was an interpretation of what i wrote.
remember... i said that i specifically created the situation to try to have
someone field-test the model with compassionate wisdom. this was done, and
quite well. jason's message would have been even more effective if it had
less of a critical "air," but this was obviously something that triggered
his emotional body, and he indicated in the writing not to take it
personally, which i did not.

lastly, regarding my apparent intelligence, back when i ate a normal
american diet and smoked cannabis, i was frequently bored, forgot things all
the time and lacked motivation to do much of anything. one great fringe
benefit of following these practices and adopting the "distortion" of
discipline is that you will quickly expand the scope and visibility of the
genius within. each person, when truly applying themselves with a strong
desire to seek love/light, has incredible contributions to make - and we are
all students.

peace be with you -

- david

David Wilcock
03-14-2002, 02:27 PM
from: "ctx82003" <reikimstr@... (/group/asc2k/post?postid=r7byvbyprji5hrdbym5fn3tf97zpii3_fdrrih rty5f-lbda56dc8advkrgss7kqixqppwfqt8yhoyw)>

> in view of this discussion, i am reminded that we are living in a
> time of grace when our powers of "discernment" are greatly enhanced.
> our personal use of our powers of discernment will tells us what is
> right for us personally.

dw: agreed.

> then i try to remind myself each day of the "law of least effort" as
> espoused by deepak chopra and to remember that i should always
> pracice "defenselessness"

dw: yes - also the metaphor of the water seeking to flow in the most
convenient path.

> "today my awareness will remain established in defenselessness. i
> will relinquish the need to defend my point of view. i will feel no
> need to convince or persuade others to accept my point of view. i
> will remain open to all points of view and not be rigidly attached to
> any one of them"

dw: certainly that is a powerful meditation. this musing on the total
importance of preserving others' free will has made me feel completely at
peace with the road-warriors of our highway systems. if you've read the
story of my early intuitive experience you'll know that this was one of my
distortions. and on the road today they did all their typical stuff and i
had no adrenaline, no anger, nothing... just peace. fantastic!

on this same trip i went to the surgeon's office and he was amazed at how
fast my finger had healed, nerve-wise. earlier he had told me that the only
value of homeopathy was that vitamin e "made rats horny" in laboratory
tests. that was a great confirmation and he said i was "well ahead of
schedule." as i tried to tell him about how i did it with nutrition he
averted eye contact and changed the subject - but i did not press, as he is
free to have his opinions that it has little or no value.

thing is, he had an er visit to do and i ended up sitting in a tiny room
waiting for him for an entire hour. i wasn't in the least bit perturbed and
showed him no projection or disappointment when he did show up, though i did
see the value of rescheduling if i would have had to wait much longer, as my
time could be put to more effective use. the body got uncomfortable after
about 40 minutes of sitting on the examination table and i had switched to a
chair, and when i was told that he would be arriving in 10 minutes i asked
where the bathroom was.

i had a philosophy professor in college who graded our papers based on how
much they were in the now of what was truly going on when we were writing
them. i got the lowest grade on an essay that i wrote for him than i did in
any other subject, ever. i think it was a c-. i think it reflects on how i
tend to be cerebral in my presentation of written data - and this could have
something to do with having tried to "overcome" the desires of the physical
instead of diluting my known experience. think of the incredible battery of
experiences that all of us have to dilute and work with - it's enough to
make you just drop it all and meditate. that's the trap - and the key is
that the catalyst keeps coming so we keep getting new opportunities to
practice what we learn about ourselves.

fall away, fall away... bless it as it falls
what remains is you.

this is why my own readings so frequently mention the "altar of sacrifice
and purification" of the desires of the conscious self. we offer them up,
saying that we understand why they are not needed and now relinquish them.
cleaning the house and throwing things away is a great physical counterpart
to this process, as fasting and diet can be.

peace be with you -

- david



> best wishes,
> lorin
>

sirbiotech
03-14-2002, 02:30 PM
hey david..

> dw: i wasn't mad at all, so that was an interpretation of what i
wrote.

i know.. i know. no worries :)


dw: jason's message would have been even more effective if it had
> less of a critical "air," but this was obviously something that
triggered his emotional body, and he indicated in the writing not to
take it personally, which i did not.

i agree! my emotional body is going through a lot of explosions...or
implosions..these days. i actually had comments about the rest of
your post, not just the last paragraph about osho...but right now..im
a little burned out from the effort i made to "defend" o-man. i'll be
back once i recharge the grey matter.

in light...

jason

Chamil1950@...
03-15-2002, 01:14 AM
donna b.
oh boy, everything you have said rings a bell. i was thinking about all of this
last night and maybe a different thought needs introduction. it is this: we have
many logically based reponses here. we also have many feeling based responses.
do you see a pattern? perhaps the venus/mars thing is working :). food for
thought. chris

I Luv
03-15-2002, 05:55 AM
<p class="msonormal"><span style="color: blue; font-family: 'courier new'; font-size: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'courier new'">dear david and group,<xml:namespace prefix="o" ns="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"></xml:namespace><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="msonormal"><span style="color: blue; font-family: 'courier new'; font-size: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'courier new'"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="msonormal"><span style="font-family: 'courier new'; font-size: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'courier new'">dw said:

<tt>3. are you self-conscious about speaking your true feelings, with the</tt>
<tt>implicit perception that you'll be judged<span style="color: blue">?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>yes i have felt this way-that is one of the reasons it has taken me so long to post (as well as trying to assimilate all this info)-and i bet there are others that feel this way, as chris said there are some strong opinions on this list that can be intimidating -and i have detected negativity and fear on this list -so what?s wrong with some ?feelgood material?-trying to raise the vibe?? i think that it is needed.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>isn?t the ultimate teaching of the law of one love and unity???? if all you see in the world is pain, fear, negativity ect? then that?s what you will get out of life-i?m just trying to give a different perspective-i think things aren?t as bad as they seem-lots of good people in this world are going to ascend and lots of good people won?t-that is how it is supposed to be.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>i don?t mean ?do nothing? because we can make a huge difference in the ones around us and we can make this transition less ?painful? for mother earth.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>i?m on this path just like everyone else and i will infinitely learn from others.</span></tt>

<tt>4. do you think that i should show more concern that i do, especially with</tt> <tt>the prophecies as given?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span><span style="color: blue">what do you think david?? </span></tt>
<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>
dw: <tt><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span>think. and think some more. find the anchors that moor you to the</tt>
<tt>harbor, and by this point work them through without anything but a sitting</tt> <tt>meditation. yes, silence, not guided visualization. <span style="color: blue">david, i think this is discouraging-it really brings me down-lots of folks have trouble silently meditating and feel they have failed. i agree that silent meditation is by far the greatest tool to access higher knowledge and wisdom-but what about the people i just mentioned or those who have a very busy life-career, husband, wife, marriage, children, little league ect???? and have like 10 min a day to silently meditate-when other times of the day (driving, eating, brushing teeth) you can creatively visualize, (of course those more advanced can also find silence during these times) and how about all the other things we can do to raise our vibe like practicing mindfulness all the time?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>the world is an illusion, that we have created by our thoughts and vibrations-so to see yourself as a ?perfect? being or at least the person you want to be can be transforming-integrate with your higher self.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>am i totally off base here????? maybe silent meditation is what i need to focus on. </span></tt><br style="mso-special-character: line-break"><br style="mso-special-character: line-break"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="msonormal"><tt><span style="font-family: 'courier new'; font-size: 10pt">this is the moment we've all been waiting for... thousands of years and many</span></tt><span style="font-family: 'courier new'; font-size: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'courier new'"> <tt>lifetimes and we're it, right now. so if this is our last shot at 3d, and we</tt> <tt>can work out repressed desires through meditation while we're still here,</tt> <tt>i'd say we'd better do it! if they're repressed then you haven't accepted</tt> <tt>yourself fully. <span style="color: blue">and we all have different ways to do this.-there are many paths but one road-know what i mean???<o:p></o:p></span></tt></span></p>
<p class="msonormal"><span style="font-family: 'courier new'; font-size: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'courier new'">
<tt>the key goof that</tt> <tt>you made is in not realizing that ra said this was the primary purpose for</tt> <tt>third-density... most people in 3d are not "enlightened" at all, they are</tt> <tt>simply here to make a choice between service to self (sts) or service toothers (sto.)<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span><span style="color: blue">exactly-i made the choice to come here-know i?m sto ? i am not worried about ascending personally but am here to help collectively- which is why i believe that there are many ways to be sto and ra?s may not resonate with everyone-doesn?t mean it ain?t a good thing.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>i don?t know about all your other folks but the people around me aren?t all enlightened or anywhere near understanding ra or david?s material -so how do i ?gently? guide these folks-because they are reaching out to me-it has to be done on there level-right????<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>i?m not going to say oh-you have to serve others 51% more than yourself or you will not ascend into the next dimension-which in many peoples mind means they will be ?going to hell?-as the next dimension is heaven???<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>i?m dealing with baptist, god fearing folk here.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></span></p>
<p class="msonormal"><tt><span style="color: blue; font-family: 'courier new'; font-size: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></span></tt></p>
<p class="msonormal"><tt><span style="font-family: 'courier new'; font-size: 10pt">the real reason for your outburst is that you've very much felt the need to</span></tt><span style="font-family: 'courier new'; font-size: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'courier new'"> <tt>suppress or overcome desire. <span style="color: blue">it seems to me that without desire there would be no true learning-</span></tt><span style="color: blue">i love desire! maybe this is not the place for me i don?t know-i am searching for ?how to? not ?why?-anyway........</span></span></p>
<p class="msonormal"><span style="color: blue; font-family: 'courier new'; font-size: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'courier new'">peace and love to you all-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="msonormal"><span style="color: blue; font-family: 'courier new'; font-size: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'courier new'"></span><span style="color: blue; font-family: 'courier new'; font-size: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'courier new'">donna b.<br style="mso-special-character: line-break"><br style="mso-special-character: line-break"></span><span style="font-family: 'courier new'; font-size: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'courier new'"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="msonormal"><tt><span style="font-family: 'courier new'; font-size: 10pt"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"></span></span></tt></p>


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Chamil1950@...
03-15-2002, 06:43 AM
> dear chris,
>
> chris said-we also have many feeling based responses. do you see a pattern?
perhaps the venus/mars thing is working :). yea you got me pegged-by the way i
am a taurus (and very much a taurus)-ruling planet-venus-have strong
feelings-just say what i feel-not always a good thing-just ask my husband!!lol
(btw he just joined the group)
> donna b.

what's his e-mail? and you told me your birthday before, it's two days before
mine :)double. anyway, many times you see the guys all logically discussing
something i would throw up my hands to and just say "what's the big deal?" men
are from mars.:0) chris
>
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madonnafra
03-15-2002, 06:56 AM
<font face="arial,helvetica"><font color="#ff0080" size="2" family="sansserif" face="verdana" lang="0">the four agreements is an awesome book.

blessings,

gayle</font>

I Luv
03-15-2002, 09:23 AM
<font face="arial black"> dear chris,</font>


<font face="arial black"></font><tt><font face="arial">chris said-</font>we also have many feeling based responses. do you see a pattern? perhaps the venus/mars thing is working :). <font face="arial black">yea you got me pegged-by the way i am a taurus (and very much a taurus)-ruling planet-venus-have strong feelings-just say what i feel-not always a good thing-just ask my husband!!lol (btw he just joined the group) </font></tt></p>


<tt><font face="arial black">donna b.</font></tt></p>


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jgernat@...
03-15-2002, 01:51 PM
<font face="arial,helvetica"><font size="2">gayle,



i find the book "the four agreements" a little disturbing and though it is

a small book, hard to read all the way through!



thanks for your response!

</font>

madonnafra
03-16-2002, 09:36 AM
<font face="arial,helvetica"><font color="#ff0080" size="2" family="sansserif" face="verdana" lang="0">i have heard the same thing from others. my sister said that she would give each agreement time to sink in before she read on.

i read them and knew of their truth right away. i was dealing with some of those issues in my own life at the time when i was nudged to buy it. it was confirmation for me.

blessings,

gayle</font>

Sunny One
03-17-2002, 02:03 PM
hi gayle,
i like this book very much and try
to incorporate these agreements as
a harmony in my life.
but like any book, it doesn't have
all the answers and sometimes we
need to break harmonies for the
greater good, and there is no
recipe on how to do that.

i remember you from my first or
second post back in june.
by the way, did you author the
text for the 3d-dragon book?

pat

--- gs5555@... (/group/asc2k/post?postid=c_one6xjcgtm4srr5w5ehjixkh0zbqwk2ytvas jrv2cnitcbywlt823rzyglufdkxcxlglqfjq) wrote:
> the four agreements is an awesome book.
> blessings,
> gayle
>


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