Clearing up densities, space/time, time/space, astral plane etc. [Archive]

daresh

03-03-2009, 05:33 AM

hello et guy,
here are some quote from the law of one session 17 which clear it up:

********************
"questioner: i’ve heard that there are seven astral and seven devachanic primary levels. is this correct?

ra: i am ra. you speak of some of the more large distinctions in levels in your inner planes. that is correct.

questioner: who inhabits the astral and devachanic planes?

ra: i am ra. entities inhabit the various planes due to their vibration/nature. the astral plane varies from thought-forms in the lower extremities to enlightened beings who become dedicated to teach/learning in the higher astral planes.

in the devachanic planes, as you call them, are those whose vibrations are even more close to the primal distortions of love/light.

beyond these planes there are others.

questioner: are there seven sub-planes to what we call our physical plane here?

ra: i am ra. you are correct. this is difficult to understand. there are an infinite number of planes. in your particular space/time continuum distortion there are seven sub-planes of mind/body/spirit complexes. you will discover the vibrational nature of these seven planes as you pass through your experiential distortions, meeting other-selves of the various levels which correspond to the energy influx centers of the physical vehicle.

the invisible, or inner, third-density planes are inhabited by those who are not of body complex natures such as yours; that is, they do not collect about their spirit/mind complexes a chemical body. nevertheless these entities are divided in what you may call an artificial dream within a dream into various levels. in the upper levels, desire to communicate knowledge back down to the outer planes of existence becomes less, due to the intensive learn/teaching which occurs upon these levels.

questioner: is it necessary to penetrate one level at a time as we move through these planes?

ra: i am ra. it has been our experience that some penetrate several planes at one time. others penetrate them slowly. some in eagerness attempt to penetrate the higher planes before penetrating the energies of the so-called lower or more fundamental planes. this causes energy imbalance.

you will find ill health, as you call this distortion, to frequently be the result of a subtle mismatch of energies in which some of the higher energy levels are being activated by the conscious attempts of the entity while the entity has not penetrated the lower energy centers or sub-densities of this density.
**************************
"

so the astral planes are the same as the inner planes.
there are 7 densities each having 7 sub-densities, each sub-density again 7 sub-sub densities and so on. the astral planes or inner planes or whatever we want to call them are in this way the sub densities of our 3rd density.
this is also manifested in our physical life. were we can meet enlightened people or people at the lowest stages etc... so there is a core vibration in a density where development can go from the lowest to the highest. but in the end the full intensity of the one infinite creator is available in every moment, in every density.
so each density has its sub-levels and space/time time/space is in every density but i think it is experienced differently because we are very very veiled at this moment and life in space/time is comparatively very short to other densities based on the law of one information. hope this brings some structure.
if something isn't clear, shoot.

kind regards,
daresh

daresh

03-03-2009, 05:45 AM

one more thing. how this relates to the higher densities. in my view: the 7 sub-levels of our density correspond to the great design of all densities. so if we relate this to the chakra's than the 4th chakra or the hearth chakra relates to the 4d, 5th to wisdom or 5d etc...
our core vibration is 3d but as in all densities we can activate through experience and learning the higher chakra's and integrate them and achieve a balance. so in 3d we can taste 4d, 5d, 6d, 7d even 8d. eventually these are normal mundane experiences and not far out up there things, experiencing love, experiencing insight, wisdom, unity, in meditation deep non dual experiences and integrating everything, working on the physical, emotional, mental, spiritual level and integrating it....
one can see this pretty clearly for example in deeply realised people who achieved non dual awareness in every moment, the every present suchness which happens with long term meditators.

greets,
Unknown

Eric The Viking

03-03-2009, 06:06 AM

hello et guy!

you've managed to ask some very complex questions to answer; i'll take a stab at answering a couple.

in regards to numbers 1 & 2: i think the term "astral plane" is a generic term for other planes (both inner and outer). it's an all encompassing term for other planes of existance.

there is a part of your being that is capable of traveling in the "astral plane" mostly while you are sleeping; such as time/space. i think you are able to travel any of the other planes; not just the time/space one.

time/space is the inverse of space/time. in our daily lives we move in space; while time is constant. in time/space; space is fixed and you can move in time.

which plane do you go to when your physical body dies? it could be time/space; i don't know for sure. honestly, i don't think it matters; just to know that you move to another plane, for a time, is good enough for me. what's more important is that; you meet up with your higher self and review your past life experiences and decide if you should re-incarnate into the 3rd density again.

i myself am not sure the distinction between inner and outer planes? perhaps someone else can define these?

regarding higher densities; i either can't remember or, i have not been there yet. you will know when you get there.

ayadew

03-03-2009, 06:59 AM

a thread regarding some speace/time time/space issues
http://www.divinecosmos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12630

Ali Quadir

03-03-2009, 11:17 AM

here as usual. we tend to overcomplicate things. :)

i like the description daresh gives. the chakras do connect to the different densities. and are a direct reflection of their properties. essentially the chakra's bind the densities together and the kundalini flow path is what we are... we are not the material aspect of this able to travel to the higher aspects with training. we are all aspects of this. able to perceive the higher subtler aspects if we know what we are looking at.

this is why initiation works. initiation is when one person takes another persons mind and focuses it on a higher subtler aspect of reality and says. "this is it" if the initiated then says "i knew that" then the connection was successful.

at night when we sleep. or when we close our eyes and imagine stuff, we are shifting our focus to astral perception. we control the flow of our thoughts with our will. this is influencing the astral. every single one of us can do this at a moments notice. and we do it all the time. whenever you dream your focus is on the astral..

the astral consciousness is closest to city level consciousness. the consciousness we usually operate in. this is why it is so easy to get there. however we are not limited to it. and our simple every day experience of the astral is not the limit of the experience you can have there. just like likely your everyday material experience is not the limit of a full strength connection to the material.

anyone noticed how it is hard to realize that we are dreaming? the reason for this is because our mind is a function of the space it functions in. when we shift to the astral dream world. you could say that we think with an astral brain. our mind functions within the astral. so it is unable to perceive alternatives. however it does not start working like this when we shift our focus. it has always worked like this. we have just not perceived it before.

when the initiated are looking to connect their chakra's they essentially connect these brains. so one becomes aware of the other. they are unifying the self.

those who are imaginative and free to be crazy can essentially broaden their perceptions more easily whilst remaining connected to the material brain when they are in the astral. those who are grounded and more solid have stronger compartmentalization of these brains. (the chakras are not aware because they filter each other out and focus on their immediate surroundings.) they still function on all levels though.

carlos castaneda described this quite well. he described how he and a few students entered into a meditation and entered into another world. they had a house there. and lived there. at first they knew they came from another place. but after a few days they had lost connection with the world of origin. and were unable to remember where they came from. instead they were convinced to have a full memory and history in the new world. until someone of their party rejected the new reality and insisted they go back. which helped the others to remember. upon which they actually went back.

see the similarity to the dream world?

our mind generates space... if we change the world we are in, we can only do this by changing the mind we use to perceive it. this means that it is impossible ever to be a 3d entity in a 4d world. or even a 3d entity in another 3d world.

i cannot see what you see because i see what i see... if i were to see what you see. i would be you, in your world and no longer me. so then you would still see what you see. and never i would see what you see... just reflections of it.

however, it is possible to broaden our perspective to the point where we can experience a trancendental variant of ourselves that is shared with others. if i understand it correctly the social memory complex is such a variant.

the point to realize. potentially an impossible realisation... you are complete. you are finalized. you do not have to "escape the body" because you're not in it. you do not have to find a way to enter the "astral" you're already there.

so if you sit down to meditate and nothing is happening... that is because it's already done... instead, accept it, throw thought balls into it and wait for them to come back. then see what happens...

don't try to become 4d... it's as pointless as trying to become human. :)

ETguy

03-03-2009, 03:36 PM

thanks a lot for your thoughts on this everyone, you all had some interesting perspectives. so, it seems to me that the inner planes are what we call the spirit world.

the invisible, or inner, third-density planes are inhabited by those who are not of body complex natures such as yours; that is, they do not collect about their spirit/mind complexes a chemical body.

i'd say space/time and time/space are not actually different places, but rather different perspectives of the same thing. when you dream at night, you perceive the third density outer plane in time/space. this is how some people are able to foretell the future in their dreams (like me).

i also believe the astral plane refers to a specific higher sub-density of our third density. i've been finding some of the different names to describe these planes. obviously, our ordinary chemical physical body is composed of the three lower sub-densities. but, we do also carry about us an etheric and astral body. i don't know what the mental body is, since our brain is made of the lowest three sub-densities. the seventh sub-density i couldn't seem to find a name for, but it seems to be something angelic.

i made a little drawing of how i think this could work, it's probably wrong, but it should serve as food for thought:

http://i41.tinypic.com/ne7ura.gif

Ali Quadir

03-04-2009, 01:44 AM

nice drawing et guy.. it's rather educational. we could bicker and argue about the order of things and how some things should be separated that you put together. but that's probably a point of view. and i think that those distinctions are much less important than the realisation that this drawing puts forward. it's a matter of octaves and harmonics. if you go up an octave there will still be matter, but it will be matter of a different frequency.

i'd like to add an ancient insight that is considered one of the most important esoterical teachings. given to us by hermes trimegistus himself..

"as above so below..."

basically it means. if an event occurs on any of the levels. it will occur on all levels. meaning that if something happens in the material world. then that something also happens in the gasseous world. but also on the astral planes. any event on the astral will likewise be accompanied by events in the material plane. the event might not be equally strong on all levels. it might even seem disconnected and be perceived as separate events.

this indicates that these worlds although seemingly different are one... like light they exist on a full spectrum. however, like light our perception is sensitive only to a small part of the spectrum.

as we shift into 4d, we will experience the new octave. but at first this will seem very much like 3d. untill we start to discover the differences.

this also means that each of our actions has consequences in all levels of existence. not just our own.

ETguy

03-04-2009, 03:29 PM

nice drawing et guy.. it's rather educational. we could bicker and argue about the order of things and how some things should be separated that you put together. but that's probably a point of view. and i think that those distinctions are much less important than the realisation that this drawing puts forward.

thanks! :) i wholeheartedly agree with you that the larger picture is important. but, to me it's pretty interesting to see the technicalities of how the universe is constructed as well.
so, sorry, but i'm just going to hop on deeper into the details here...hehe! :)

what i find interesting is that our first, second and third density are actually coexisting, just like the lower third sub-densites of third density. i guess it's something special with the lower third sub-densities of any density. that's always been something that i haven't quite been able to understand, the interactions between densities.
how can it be that our first, second and third densities are merged together, while fourth density seems to be a completely seperate plane of existence? our houses and constructions are made of first and second density materials, how does that work in fourth density?

say, that there's a planet which has first, second, third and fourth density activated, with beings inhabiting all of them. the fourth density beings are invisible to the third density beings. if a fourth density being chops down a tree (no offense, environmentalists), would the third density being see the tree just fall over by itself, and watch the tree float away in the air as the fourth density being carries it away? or does the tree exist in the second sub-density of fourth density? meaning that there is a separate planet for every density in the octave (taking into the consideration that the 1th-2nd-3rd densities are merged.)
again, i'd greatly appreciate it if someone could clarify this.

Eric The Viking

03-05-2009, 05:22 AM

it's my impression that a 4th density entity would have no need to chop down a tree. you most likely can manifest the physical objects you desire; simply with your consciousness.

ETguy

03-05-2009, 05:23 PM

eric the viking, that makes perfect sense. i can't believe i didn't think about that! :o i guess that just proves how hard it is to try to imagine fourth density, it's nearly impossible. ra states this as well. :)

questioner: thank you. is it possible for you to give a short description of the conditions in the fourth density?

ra: i am ra. we ask you to consider as we speak that there are not words for positively describing fourth density. we can only explain what is not and approximate what is. beyond fourth density our ability grows more limited until we become without words.

this thread has been great, all of my questions have been cleared up and more!

- space/time and time/space are just different perspectives of the same thing.
- inner planes are the areas of the earth where mind/spirit complexes reside, outer planes refers to the actual earth which is inhabited by mind/body/spirit complexes.
- the astral plane is a higher sub-density.
- 1st, 2nd and 3rd density can be considered as one merged plane of existence with three different levels of activation.

DFS

10-25-2009, 05:07 PM

david has explained how time/space is an integral part of our space/time third density experience. though we believe we are functioning primarily in space/time, this may be a false assumption. let me begin with a quote from the law of one web site.

"i am ra. perhaps the most critical difference of the veiling, before and after,
was that before the mind, body, and spirit were veiled, entities were aware that
each energy transfer and, indeed, very nearly all that proceeds from any intercourse,
social or sexual, between two entities has its character and substance in time/space
rather than space/time....."
-- session 84, question 17 --

consider the implications of this statement. thanks to mediums such as the telephone and internet, it is possible to intercourse with other selves without physical proximity. if you doubt that it is possible to transfer energy via phone and/or internet, you haven't been paying attention.

if you've received a nasty or angry e-mail, you have felt the energy being projected in that message, and even with the time delay, the transfer of energy is very tangible and real. how many times have you ended a phone conversation with a needy individual and felt as if that person sucked up all your energy? i know some very good healers and psychics who do all their work via telephone because it's an excellent medium for transferring energy.

thus, as both social intercourse and an energy exchange between individuals, our activity on the phone or internet actually has its character and substance in time/space. these mediums are helping us to dispel the conditioned illusion of separation. in time/space,we know on a deep intuitive level that we are all one being.

this, of course, offers a metaphysical reason for the popularity of text messaging and social networking. in forums such as this one, we are actually connecting on a metaphysical time/space level.

and although they do not involve a direct contact of individuals, other mediums such as books and films may also have their character and substance in time/space. when we connect our consciousness with a book or film, we are shifting our consciousness out of space/time and into time/space. in that way, we are escaping the illusion of separation.

considering the prevalence of these various mediums in our lives, how much real time are we actually spending in our third-density bodies in space/time? will all of these mediums aid us in merging into a unified global consciousness? one can hope so, though it will require a mass awakening into personal responsibility together with numerous paradigm shifts. still, it's a possibility/probability that may be enhanced by the new forms of communication.

dfs

evolving

10-27-2009, 12:20 PM

eric the viking, that makes perfect sense. i can't believe i didn't think about that! :o i guess that just proves how hard it is to try to imagine fourth density, it's nearly impossible. ra states this as well. :)

this thread has been great, all of my questions have been cleared up and more!

- space/time and time/space are just different perspectives of the same thing.
- inner planes are the areas of the earth where mind/spirit complexes reside, outer planes refers to the actual earth which is inhabited by mind/body/spirit complexes.
- the astral plane is a higher sub-density.
- 1st, 2nd and 3rd density can be considered as one merged plane of existence with three different levels of activation.

consider also that the 1st and 8th density also share the same plane because their "octaves" reside next to each other on the increasing or decreasing infinite scale. i hope that doesn't again confuse you.

evolving

01-12-2010, 11:53 AM

space/time v time/space?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i am on book 111 of the law of one. some of it difficult to understand. i have one question.
i think i understand space/time but not time/space. i'd appreciate an explanation of the difference between the two. thanks

space/time is an illusion. space/time is where we are now. space/time has:
3 dimensions of space
1 dimension of time (the illusion of time is that it is linear; that there is a future and a past, but there is not. these are constructs of the mind. in truth there is only now).

time/space is reality. space/time is all of creation. time/space has:
1 dimension of space
3 dimensions of time (the reality of time is that is is multi-dimensional, and may be moved around in like we presently move about in a room. this allows for all points and variations to be viewed.)

i hope that helps in your understanding, brother.

East Sun

01-13-2010, 09:28 AM

space/time is an illusion. space/time is where we are now. space/time has:
3 dimensions of space
1 dimension of time (the illusion of time is that it is linear; that there is a future and a past, but there is not. these are constructs of the mind. in truth there is only now).

time/space is reality. space/time is all of creation. time/space has:
1 dimension of space
3 dimensions of time (the reality of time is that is is multi-dimensional, and may be moved around in like we presently move about in a room. this allows for all points and variations to be viewed.)

i hope that helps in your understanding, brother.

there is only now. i agree with that. but if so, how can we go forward or back in time?

let's say you went forward in time and came back to now and changed something to affect things in the future, then you would have changed a future reality. then a great number of people got in alignment in conscious thought to create a different future. when you got there the reality you had planned for would not be right. so, that shows that we, collectively, are creating the future.
if so, how could you go forward in time when it is not decided yet?

comments or answers or more questions--thanks.

Perseus

01-13-2010, 12:03 PM

this is a great analogy and confirms in my own mind what i have been receiving via my higher self. thank you

Perseus

01-13-2010, 12:16 PM

East Sun

01-13-2010, 01:41 PM

in space/time with a reference point like gmt or another line of longitude potentialy even more localised we can move forward and backwards in time with respect to space within our mind-body-spirit complexes.

in time/space we can also project forward and backward in time with respect to our individuated sub and superconscioussness as well as being present with a consciouness perspective.

as a practitioner/counsellor i work with others in the field of conscioussness space and time and use a therapy that helps with healing the past and projecting a positive future.

let me see if this is right, in your opinion.
gmt is what we set to keep a perspective on time "passing." we can take a plane going east and beat the clock, so to speak, but it's just man made time we are looking at.
in space/time as einstein said we could potentially, literally travel forward or back in time if we traveled fast enough..

in time/space it seems that we are only traveling within our minds, as in dreams or deep thought/meditation etc. or some psychics could in their minds eye see something that happened previously. but would that be traveling back in time/space?

NegaNova

01-13-2010, 04:32 PM

let me see if this is right, in your opinion.
gmt is what we set to keep a perspective on time "passing." we can take a plane going east and beat the clock, so to speak, but it's just man made time we are looking at.
in space/time as einstein said we could potentially, literally travel forward or back in time if we traveled fast enough..

in time/space it seems that we are only traveling within our minds, as in dreams or deep thought/meditation etc. or some psychics could in their minds eye see something that happened previously. but would that be traveling back in time/space?

that's a pretty good a question. i imagine that time/space is a concept that is extremely difficult to fathom because right now we exist in space/time and with a veil which gives us the illusion of a separation of that sort of existence. i think time/space is more than just within the mind though, just as space/time is, they both still occupy the same thing. unless of course we fully felt and knew that we were everything, and then in that case, then yes time/space is within only the mind lol, which is still everywhere and everything.

evolving

01-13-2010, 04:44 PM

there is only now. i agree with that. but if so, how can we go forward or back in time?

let's say you went forward in time and came back to now and changed something to affect things in the future, then you would have changed a future reality. then a great number of people got in alignment in conscious thought to create a different future. when you got there the reality you had planned for would not be right. so, that shows that we, collectively, are creating the future.
if so, how could you go forward in time when it is not decided yet?

comments or answers or more questions--thanks.

the movement in the multiple dimensions of time in time/space allows an entity/social complex to view all possibilities, for each sideways/up/down movement will be viewed a different possibility. from each possibility the entity/social complex may view how that possibility came to exist (the past), or what the result of that possibility (the future) will be in the next instant. it must be understood that each possibility can again hold further future possibilities, which is why ra cannot predict the actual future of our illusory space/time. due to the first distortion, each instant of the future is changed by each decision.

the future may be viewed due to the the occurrence of the past, but just as one may try to understand where the cork will end up in the river five miles away, it truly is a fruitless endeavour, as things always change in our illusion, again, due to the first distortion.

simply put, viewing time in the future only contains possibilities of accuracy, not exactness, and each change in the the current will affect the viewed future.

East Sun

01-14-2010, 06:58 AM

the movement in the multiple dimensions of time in time/space allows an entity/social complex to view all possibilities, for each sideways/up/down movement will be viewed a different possibility. from each possibility the entity/social complex may view how that possibility came to exist (the past), or what the result of that possibility (the future) will be in the next instant. it must be understood that each possibility can again hold further future possibilities, which is why ra cannot predict the actual future of our illusory space/time. due to the first distortion, each instant of the future is changed by each decision.

the future may be viewed due to the the occurrence of the past, but just as one may try to understand where the cork will end up in the river five miles away, it truly is a fruitless endeavour, as things always change in our illusion, again, due to the first distortion.

simply put, viewing time in the future only contains possibilities of accuracy, not exactness, and each change in the the current will affect the viewed future.

thanks evolving, i agree with that. it may be impossible, but i'm trying to get a "vision" of what time/space is so that whenever it is mentioned i "see" it. i can easily imagine space/time as anyone can but to do that with time/space is what i'm after.

East Sun

01-14-2010, 09:34 AM

that's a pretty good a question. i imagine that time/space is a concept that is extremely difficult to fathom because right now we exist in space/time and with a veil which gives us the illusion of a separation of that sort of existence. i think time/space is more than just within the mind though, just as space/time is, they both still occupy the same thing. unless of course we fully felt and knew that we were everything, and then in that case, then yes time/space is within only the mind lol, which is still everywhere and everything.

i just read in the law of one book 111 about time/space being where you would be between incarnations in third density. it would be more than that at other times like when in a trance i think but the description is on p. 157

now the next question is: what is the difference between 'negative' time/space and 'positive' time space?

another question is: if we are creating a future of infinite possibilities if someone goes into the future and observes that reality, but later it actually manifests as something else, what they observed was not real since it never became reality. boggles the mind.

evolving

01-14-2010, 08:47 PM

thanks evolving, i agree with that. it may be impossible, but i'm trying to get a "vision" of what time/space is so that whenever it is mentioned i "see" it. i can easily imagine space/time as anyone can but to do that with time/space is what i'm after.

picture yourself in a doctors office, sitting in a chair. as people come in,and sit down, go to see the doctor, then leave, imagine if minor events were changed. perhaps a pen was dropped, and the phone rang, and someone's name got called a second later. you could view how it happened in the first place, and you could view it if the pen dropped, and you could view it because of the phone ringing, and the outcomes of each of those events and the possibilities because of those events taking place. you would remain in one position, but you could "roll the tape" an infinite number of ways to see what would happen if... then, if you wanted, you could view it from behind the nurses desk. you need not walk over, you may just imagine you are there and you are. then, "roll the tape" again and again and again...

another question is: if we are creating a future of infinite possibilities if someone goes into the future and observes that reality, but later it actually manifests as something else, what they observed was not real since it never became reality. boggles the mind.

one cannot view the reality of the future; only the possibilities of the future. nothing is set until the moment of now, yet even now can be changed if the now in the past is altered to give a new set of possibilities for the future current now.

does that confuse you further brother? hehe

East Sun

01-16-2010, 12:01 PM

picture yourself in a doctors office, sitting in a chair. as people come in,and sit down, go to see the doctor, then leave, imagine if minor events were changed. perhaps a pen was dropped, and the phone rang, and someone's name got called a second later. you could view how it happened in the first place, and you could view it if the pen dropped, and you could view it because of the phone ringing, and the outcomes of each of those events and the possibilities because of those events taking place. you would remain in one position, but you could "roll the tape" an infinite number of ways to see what would happen if... then, if you wanted, you could view it from behind the nurses desk. you need not walk over, you may just imagine you are there and you are. then, "roll the tape" again and again and again...

one cannot view the reality of the future; only the possibilities of the future. nothing is set until the moment of now, yet even now can be changed if the now in the past is altered to give a new set of possibilities for the future current now.

does that confuse you further brother? hehe

yes, confusing. when ra says that it's almost impossible for us to understand certain things we know there are things to accept but still search for understanding of them.

the past being changed to affect the present is impossible from a practicable/logical way of thinking. since every change affects countless other things which have a domino effect forever maybe, then changing something significant in the past would have far reaching effects on things you might not want changed in the present. no matter how i analyze the concept of going back or forward i find more things to make it not possible, from our third density existence.
if you went back and stayed there would you not have lived up to the present already or would that be erased unless you went forward again. we are all one but everyone sees everything from his/her own perspective. if all time is now then every moment of your life is happening at the same time. yes, confusing.

evolving

01-16-2010, 01:52 PM

the past being changed to affect the present is impossible from a practicable/logical way of thinking. since every change affects countless other things which have a domino effect forever maybe, then changing something significant in the past would have far reaching effects on things you might not want changed in the present.

things need not be significantly changed, as we think of significant, to have effect. the simple swatting of a mosquito can have an effect on the the entire future of the illusion. all is linked to all, and nothing is insignificant.

if you went back and stayed there would you not have lived up to the present already or would that be erased unless you went forward again.

our spiritual beingness cannot be erased or removed or destroyed; only events and possibilities can be changed. we "are" during creation, and "are" for infinity.

if all time is now then every moment of your life is happening at the same time.

this statement is indeed true no matter how paradoxical it may appear.

East Sun

01-16-2010, 04:43 PM

things need not be significantly changed, as we think of significant, to have effect. the simple swatting of a mosquito can have an effect on the the entire future of the illusion. all is linked to all, and nothing is insignificant.
[quote]
if an insignificant thing can cause much change just think how much a really significant incident would do.

",,,nothing is insignificant." but i am careful to take seemingly insignificant things with a pinch of salt.

[quote]
our spiritual beingness cannot be erased or removed or destroyed; only events and possibilities can be changed. we "are" during creation, and "are" for infinity.

[quote] yep, i agree. to take another stab at this: if events that have taken place are changed retroactively people who had died before the change could now be alive. they would have died in the now and later not have died.

well, i've added to my own confusion but, who knows, we might stumble on to something not asked before.

this statement is indeed true no matter how paradoxical it may appear.

i think better asking questions. ra would probably say "what you ask is not really important."

evolving

01-16-2010, 07:10 PM

if an insignificant thing can cause much change just think how much a really significant incident would do. but i am careful to take seemingly insignificant things with a pinch of salt.

dear brother, once again, nothing is insignificant. the only difference between significant and insignificant is your perception of such difference.

i have heard the explanation that a butterfly, meandering its way along in a field, may be the initial cause of a hurricane on the other side of the ocean. that imperceivable and seemingly insignificant tiny flutter of a wing, beginning the flow of air in what may begin an increasing snowball effect over time... might alter the lives of thousands...

yep, i agree. to take another stab at this: if events that have taken place are changed retroactively people who had died before the change could now be alive. they would have died in the now and later not have died.

we enter into contract for each incarnate experience to learn specific desired lessons, and the way our physical vehicle becomes unviable is unimportant. if the lessons are learned, or there is no way to further attempt the lessons, then the experience is concluded. if one way is changed through alteration of the timeline, another way will result. alteration of possibilities is only that. it does not stop existence from existing.

East Sun

01-17-2010, 08:38 AM

dear brother, once again, nothing is insignificant. the only difference between significant and insignificant is your perception of such difference.
[quote]

i intended to put in "seemingly" insignificant...

[quote]
i have heard the explanation that a butterfly, meandering its way along in a field, may be the initial cause of a hurricane on the other side of the ocean. that imperceivable and seemingly insignificant tiny flutter of a wing, beginning the flow of air in what may begin an increasing snowball effect over time... might alter the lives of thousands...

to me that is supposition and not part of what is said to be the 'bigger picture.'
if it was the case everything that ever happened or is happening could all affect each other
continually with no seemingly rhyme or reason and be beyond anything we need to be concerned with.

we enter into contract for each incarnate experience to learn specific desired lessons, and the way our physical vehicle becomes unviable is unimportant. if the lessons are learned, or there is no way to further attempt the lessons, then the experience is concluded. if one way is changed through alteration of the timeline, another way will result. alteration of possibilities is only that. it does not stop existence from existing.

as is stated in law of one that is correct. i am looking for a way to understand better, something that is understood by, lets say, david wilcock, maybe.
so far i only get quotes or versions of quotes (not just here) that i have read in loo or elsewhere.
i know that we can not logically explain some of these things, but also know that we can always learn more by questioning.
it's like thinking out loud or thinking by writing. :)

p.s.
it seems that a lot of people feel compelled to give answers to all and every question even if they don't have an answer to that specific question.
for instance; the question i asked earlier about someone dying etc. there is no answer that we know of because it is a contradiction as we see it in this density. i learned that by just asking the question. i hope this makes sense. we learn form each other after reading as much as we can. peace and wellness always.

Perseus

01-17-2010, 09:40 AM

from my own experience and limited perspective i have only been able to view an event and some of the possible outcomes in an altered state where i have had awareness of rewinding an event in time intiating a different action and seeing how that plays out. or being aware of an event before it actually happens, precognition i guess.

i know it is possible to be in the moment and feel the joy when an event feels timeless. to physically move forward and backward in time we would have to be in our light bodies and dissociated from our physical bodies and from what i understand of lo1 those are 5d, 6d attributes.

all international flights have been set up to fly in the same direction around the globe and this also avoids airline's crashing into each other.

it is a heavy topic and the only truth that i can 100% know is that of love and i try to be present in that awareness and radiate it.

billybobbutterball

01-17-2010, 10:00 AM

all international flights have been set up to fly in the same direction around the globe and this also avoids airline's crashing into each other..:eek:

hi, perseus
are you sure about the above thought bite? :confused::)

billybobbutterball....wondering while i'm wandering

evolving

01-17-2010, 10:55 AM

all international flights have been set up to fly in the same direction around the globe and this also avoids airline's crashing into each other.

? where does this come from ? to fly to a city in of asia from north america would be a long couple days if they didn't fly... to the east. to fly to a city in europe from north america would be a long couple of days if the flights did not fly... to the west...

to me that is supposition and not part of what is said to be the 'bigger picture.' if it was the case everything that ever happened or is happening could all affect each other continually with no seemingly rhyme or reason and be beyond anything we need to be concerned with.

ah, but there is rhyme and reason in everything affecting everything else. it is due to the veil that one has little concern for such.

as is stated in law of one that is correct. i am looking for a way to understand better, something that is understood by, lets say, david wilcock, maybe. so far i only get quotes or versions of quotes (not just here) that i have read in loo or elsewhere.

you are correct in that understanding is not of this density. understanding is of the 4th.

i know that we can not logically explain some of these things, but also know that we can always learn more by questioning.
it's like thinking out loud or thinking by writing. :)

yet when you ask these questions out loud or in writing, are you only talking/ writing to yourself?

p.s.
it seems that a lot of people feel compelled to give answers to all and every question even if they don't have an answer to that specific question.
for instance; the question i asked earlier about someone dying etc. there is no answer that we know of because it is a contradiction as we see it in this density. i learned that by just asking the question. i hope this makes sense. we learn form each other after reading as much as we can. peace and wellness always.

there are answers brother. you only desire that there is not, and so it shall be.

East Sun

01-17-2010, 05:48 PM

i had just said that it is not something we need to concern ourselves with.

.[quote]
yet when you ask these questions out loud or in writing, are you only talking/ writing to yourself?

no, of course not. when writing it is for others to read and reply to, and i learn from their responses even if they are just repeating something i already knew.

there are answers brother. you only desire that there is not, and so it shall be.

we know there are answers. that is why we search. i don't desire that there are not. where did you get that from. i desire answers and i get answers. peace and wellness.

billybobbutterball

01-18-2010, 04:24 PM

dear evolving

methinks you need to re-think this one a bit :p

snip

where does this come from ? to fly to a city in of asia from north america would be a long couple days if they didn't fly... to the east. to fly to a city in europe from north america would be a long couple of days if the flights did not fly... to the west...

snip

too bad spell checkers can't check directions..:)

billious g aka bbb

evolving

01-18-2010, 05:57 PM

East Sun

01-19-2010, 07:06 PM

from a 3rd d perspective it is not possible to go back in space. first let's take going forward in time as einstein saw it. at the 'speed of light' lets say, you would go through space for a half hour and land in the same place and the people would have aged, say, 30 years. that would mean you were suspended in time/space for 30 earth years. you would not have aged.
ok, with that. but if you went back 30 earth years you could not be the same age because you would see yourself as a baby etc. if you went back you would have to take time with you and you would be a baby again except that you would not remember anything except what you did when you were a baby. you would have to have taken the whole solar system and maybe the galaxy or maybe all existence with you to go back in time, so it is impossible from our standpoint here now.
we can chose to believe what we are told about higher densities and very advanced modes of existence, but it's just like believing what religions said in the past--a matter of belief.
opinions or thoughts on this anyone? :)

evolving

01-19-2010, 08:47 PM

hence the term "theory" of relativity. einstein only had a theory, not a proven scientific fact. and yes, we can't do this in the 3rd density unless we move into time/space.

East Sun

01-20-2010, 06:03 AM

hence the term "theory" of relativity. einstein only had a theory, not a proven scientific fact. and yes, we can't do this in the 3rd density unless we move into time/space.

right.
if entities traveled through a wormhole/whatever to earth would they be a part of our density system. i think they would because of all being one. they could be from any number of densities. would that mean that they were, at one time, human here on earth?
thought: if you eventually reached a place/level where you could be anywhere at any time, past or future through conscious thought, after a while wouldn't it become monotonous?
of course we don't know. your entire consciousness might/would be altered beyond what we know now.

evolving

01-20-2010, 09:48 AM

right.
if entities traveled through a wormhole/whatever to earth would they be a part of our density system. i think they would because of all being one. they could be from any number of densities. would that mean that they were, at one time, human here on earth?

location and density both are and are not related brother. in the terms which you speak, they are not. because you go to turkey to visit does not mean you are from turkey. if an entity travelled to earth, what density the entity ended up in would depend entirely on what density this entity travelled to. 3rd and 4th densities can co-exist, but it is troubling for 3rd density entities, thus it is designed that each are not activated at the same time. when the 3rd is activated, the 4h is in potentialition, and vice versa.

only 5% of the known universe even looks like us in 3rd density and/or has compatible dna for mixing in the 3rd density experience. the rest... who knows... [moderator: this does not agree with david's blog material, however, in which he concludes that the majority of 3rd density does look similar to us. fyi]

thought: if you eventually reached a place/level where you could be anywhere at any time, past or future through conscious thought, after a while wouldn't it become monotonous?
of course we don't know. your entire consciousness might/would be altered beyond what we know now.

there is no might/would when it comes to consciousness, and there is no alteration. outside of this mind/body//spirit complex, you are yourself. you are unity, connected to infinity. in the term mind/body//spirit complex, the "complex" part is the veil.

your question about monotony; what is monotony? a term to describe a human feeling which we have which is a result of the veil? monotony is an illusion, not part of infinity.

East Sun

01-20-2010, 12:03 PM

location and density both are and are not related brother. in the terms which you speak, they are not. because you go to turkey to visit does not mean you are from turkey. if an entity travelled to earth, what density the entity ended up in would depend entirely on what density this entity travelled to. 3rd and 4th densities can co-exist, but it is troubling for 3rd density entities, thus it is designed that each are not activated at the same time. when the 3rd is activated, the 4h is in potentialition, and vice versa.

only 5% of the known universe even looks like us in 3rd density and/or has compatible dna for mixing in the 3rd density experience. the rest... who knows... [moderator: this does not agree with david's blog material, however, in which he concludes that the majority of 3rd density does look similar to us. fyi]

there is no might/would when it comes to consciousness, and there is no alteration. outside of this mind/body//spirit complex, you are yourself. you are unity, connected to infinity. in the term mind/body//spirit complex, the "complex" part is the veil.

your question about monotony; what is monotony? a term to describe a human feeling which we have which is a result of the veil? monotony is an illusion, not part of infinity.

in my consciousness now there is might/would. when i loose the veil then i will know what is in that now/time.

ok, we are part of infinity and we can't know what that entails. we can surmise, guess, search etc. i'm talking about now. monotony is real to me at this time the same as joy etc.
i'm not going to stop living now to try and "guess" what is beyond what ra or a channeling gives us. peace and joy.

East Sun

01-24-2010, 08:34 AM

hence the term "theory" of relativity. einstein only had a theory, not a proven scientific fact. and yes, we can't do this in the 3rd density unless we move into time/space.

in retrospect,

is not loo and channeling all 'theory' in that it is not proven scientific fact.

this is where totally convinced people disagree with, healthy skepticism searchers. as i said before, just like the religious people past and present.

Chris Hamilton

01-24-2010, 08:57 AM

evolving

01-24-2010, 10:21 AM

East Sun

01-24-2010, 11:24 AM

yes healthy skepticism and researching is needed in the metaphysical community precisely because of all the misleading, manipulative, and fear-laden stuff out there on the internet. however, we are in a private forum originated by its main site developer, david wilcock, and we are here because we want to discuss his theories and the loo information...as the rules state:

"your presence in this group comprises a tacit acceptance of our core values and beliefs as set forth in mr. wilcock's work and the law of one series from l/l research company. while skepticism and critical thinking are always useful in the pursuit of knowledge, we cannot have meaningful discussions if we must constantly defend our fundamentals against those who choose to disagree."

thus, if you do not resonate with the law of one philosophy, the rules of this forum are clear that arguing about the loo is off-topic. if your beliefs resonate with some other channelled material, it is suggested that you post in a forum dedicated to that. chris

hi chris, it is certainly not my intention to argue. i like to discuss these things in a way that is an open and free exchange of opinions. i was not disagreeing with the loo teachings--just asking questions. for instance: i was hypothesizing when asking about time travel but got an obvious answer about the theory of relativity that everyone knows instead of an opinion--that and similar answers rubbed me the wrong way. maybe i'm overly sensitive to that kind of thing. sorry if i offended anyone.
i'm on book 1v of the loo and it is very meaningful to me. i also read david wilcock's material and all books related to him and edgar cayce. these things are my number one focus inc. forums connected with dw.
be well and happy in all you do. east sun

MarkM

01-24-2010, 01:58 PM

only 5% of the known universe even looks like us in 3rd density and/or has compatible dna for mixing in the 3rd density experience. the rest... who knows... [moderator: this does not agree with david's blog material, however, in which he concludes that the majority of 3rd density does look similar to us. fyi]

well, here we have a bit of contextual uncertainty. what is the known universe? would a response from ra attempt to speak of the questioner's concept of the 'known' universe or speak of ra's conception? also, we are told by ra that this particular galaxy (is there some confusion here vis a vis ra, much as the previously noted confusion with the terms, 'solar system' and 'galaxy'?) tends to use the humanoid form as the chosen means of a third density evolutionary vehicle:

questioner: then there is an extreme variation in the form of the physical vehicle in third density in the universe. i assume that this is also true of fourth density. is this correct?

ra: i am ra. this is so. we remind you that it is a great theoretical distance between demanding that the creatures of an infinite creation be unnoticeably similar to one’s self and observing those signs which may be called human which denote the third-density characteristics of self-consciousness, the grouping into pairs, societal groups, and races, and the further characteristic means of using self-consciousness to refine and search for the meaning of the milieu.

so if we could observe a third density being from another planet in this galaxy, such as pandora in the recent movie of note, both the non-native status as well as the obviously humanoid pattern would be immediately noticeable. assuming that ra is referring to all the galactic superclusters which were known to exist in 1981 - comprising untold trillions of galaxys - it would indeed be remarkable that five percent of third density vehicles could pass as native earth-human. david wilcock speaks of evidence both originating from the loo as well as insider testimony that suggests that despite tertiary differences, the milky way galaxy is fraught with the humanoid pattern (while other galaxies may well make use of other means). 'humanness' in terms of a creature undergoing third density may not relate to physical form at all in a wider, intergalactic sense, yet refer to behavioral indicators unrelated to physical form.

in retrospect,

is not loo and channeling all 'theory' in that it is not proven scientific fact.

this is where totally convinced people disagree with, healthy skepticism searchers. as i said before, just like the religious people past and present.

you can have imbalance in either direction, as you can have religious fundamentalists as well as scientific fundamentalists. unlike as with many religions and science groups, a salient point about the loo material is that we are encouraged to take nothing as fact, and to only make useful to ourselves those aspects of the writings which feel good to us, and perhaps serve to stimulate our spiritual growth. unlike many religions and science groups, we are implored to ignore any and all aspects which we prefer not to entertain.

(there is indeed much of this material which touches on scientific properties which were virtually unknown in the early eighties, but which have since come into the view of the scientific community. torsion field research coupled with the concept of the geometrically ordered foundation of all physical matter being changeable with the shifting between densities is but one aspect.)

something which has become apparent to me in my spiritual journey is that my intellectual, rational mind is best left open to be informed by my intuitive center, just as my intuitive faculties are bridled and informed by my powers of intellectual discrimination. for me, spiritual awakening needs this symbiotic relationship to manifest and grow strong and unified. pure intellectual pursuit of matters spiritual and metaphysical is like putting batteries in the radio, while forgetting to attach the antenna! :p much like plunging into intellectual exploration of time travel paradox, the singularly logical study of infinity will at best show the seeker that the mind alone is limited by the bounds of its physical environment.

there can be an inner knowing which transcends either intuition or the intellect, yet relies upon a balanced interface between the two. here, it is well advised that the seeker feel compelled to accept nothing which does not resonate within their being. on the other hand, something may serve your quest for inner knowing although the intellect alone begs in vain for outer proof. the intellect unbalanced by intuition and an opening of the heart center will have a never-ending appetite for such activity! ;) mark

MarkM

01-24-2010, 02:17 PM

so lets get this thread back on track... here're the original questions by etguy:

clearing up densities, space/time, time/space, astral plane etc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

as i understand it, space/time is our everyday normal 3d world, while time/space is the afterlife plane which you only enter after you die. but i've also heard that time/space is the place you enter while you dream, which is confusing. ra also says things like inner planes and outer planes, which i don't understand. and then there's the astral plane, and the higher densities. it's all just a big mess that i don't seem to understand.

so i guess my questions are:

1) what are the inner planes and outer planes?
2) what is the astral plane?
3) how does this relate to other higher densities?
4) does every density have it's own time/space, space/time and astral plane?

i'd greatly appreciate it if someone could explain this to me, or refer me to some material which does.
thanks a bunch in advance!

East Sun

01-24-2010, 04:48 PM

well, here we have a bit of contextual uncertainty. what is the known universe? would a response from ra attempt to speak of the questioner's concept of the 'known' universe or speak or ra's conception? also, we are told by ra that this particular galaxy (is there some confusion here vis a vis ra, much as the previously noted confusion with the terms, 'solar system' and 'galaxy'?) tends to use the humanoid form as the chosen means of a third density evolutionary vehicle:

so if we could observe a third density being from another planet in this galaxy, such as pandora in the recent movie of note, both the non-native status as well as the obviously humanoid pattern would be immediately noticeable. assuming that ra is referring to all the galactic superclusters which were known to exist in 1981 - comprising untold trillions of galaxys - it would indeed be remarkable that five percent of third density vehicles could pass as native earth-human. david wilcock speaks of evidence both originating from the loo as well as insider testimony that suggests that despite tertiary differences, the milky way galaxy is fraught with the humanoid pattern (while other galaxies may well make use of other means). 'humanness' in terms of a creature undergoing third density may not relate to physical form at all in a wider, intergalactic sense, yet refer to behavioral indicators unrelated to physical form.

you can have imbalance in either direction, as you can have religious fundamentalists as well as scientific fundamentalists. unlike as with many religions and science groups, a salient point about the loo material is that we are encouraged to take nothing as fact, and to only make useful to ourselves those aspects of the writings which feel good to us, and perhaps serve to stimulate our spiritual growth. unlike many religions and science groups, we are implored to ignore any and all aspects which we prefer not to entertain.

(there is indeed much of this material which touches on scientific properties which were virtually unknown in the early eighties, but which have since come into the view of the scientific community. torsion field research coupled with the concept of the geometrically ordered foundation of all physical matter being changeable with the shifting between densities is but one aspect.)

something which has become apparent to me in my spiritual journey is that my intellectual, rational mind is best left open to be informed by my intuitive center, just as my intuitive faculties are bridled and informed by my powers of intellectual discrimination. for me, spiritual awakening needs this symbiotic relationship to manifest and grow strong and unified. pure intellectual pursuit of matters spiritual and metaphysical is like putting batteries in the radio, while forgetting to attach the antenna! :p much like plunging into intellectual exploration of time travel paradox, the singularly logical study of infinity will at best show the seeker that the mind alone is limited by the bounds of its physical environment.

there can be an inner knowing which transcends either intuition or the intellect, yet relies upon a balanced interface between the two. here, it is well advised that the seeker feel compelled to accept nothing which does not resonate within their being. on the other hand, something may serve your quest for inner knowing although the intellect alone begs in vain for outer proof. the intellect unbalanced by intuition and an opening of the heart center will have a never-ending appetite for such activity! ;) mark

thank you mark for that very well explained info. i agree especially about using intellect in pursuit of spiritual things. i have learned a lot from questioning even the bible (in my own mind) but also on other forums where the atmosphere is somewhat different to here.
i am spiritual in my thinking and could not be otherwise.
again thanks for the information. east sun

billybobbutterball

01-24-2010, 05:56 PM

question: what about inner/outer/astral planes?.

this question was asked about four years ago and i jumped right in to give an answer.
i didn't really know then and i certainly don't know now ....the only difference is that my awareness concerning my range of ignorance has expanded exponentially.

roughly, such terms relate to areas around earth that are separate from the 4th on up.
they would include earth elementals, odd spirits and sprites and so forth...elements of animism. the white brotherhood are located in the upper astral, there are entities hanging around between incarnations...much psychic communications come from this level...for instance the famed (unauthorized) "urantia" material originated from the astral.

an interesting note from the ra is that they pointed out to some curiosity seekers that the guides in the astral were better suited to answer plainly personal, earthy and more obviously transient questions than the more distanced-from-the-mundane, venusian-originated, ra.

you might well do a search for material from llresearch....for instance i grabbed this tasty bit....

snip

carla: if negative thought forms are from the lower
astral, are positive thought forms from the upper
astral?
i am q’uo. there are, as you are aware, within the
astral planes of your planetary vibration those
middle and upper levels which are home to the more
positive vibrations of entities which would form in
accordance with the generation of the appropriate
vibration within a sufficient number of your
population. the higher frequencies of vibration of
the thoughts of the population of your planet find,
as do grades of a liquid, a more appropriate home
within those upper reaches of what you have called
the astral plane.

notice the mention of thought forms above (bill)
snip

concerning science. before bandying around the term everyone needs to understand and come to an agreement on what science is and what it is not...not that easy!

i have on my cluttered desk a book by an academic dean of the science of science who goes by the name of arthur n. strahler. the book is called, understanding science--- its like 410 pages long, has moderate sized type, sans pictures, and most of it is over my head. when it comes to spiritual and philosophical questions science bolts for the door since such objects of knowledge are out of its highly constricted sphere of usefulness.

no, the ra material cannot be addressed by scientific tools...the best that can be hoped for is using some degree of pseudoscience investigating its logical consistency. (incidentally, logic/math... zero-point energy are not "scientific....oddly enough there is godell's theorem that "proves" that (certain aspect) of mathematics can't be completely"proved" by its own tools:p )

the whole affair can get ridiculous.

for example.

i have a dear christian friend who promotes weird thingies like energy crystals and does dowsing and bibliomancy -- yet accuses me of being seduced by the devil's"new age" stuff and thus am destined to hell...

here is the humorous part... she advertises her healing devices as being "not new age" but "scientific!" :rolleyes:

a saving thought comes from the ra in that intellectual tools are not of much use in the higher dimensions. whew!

wow! i humbly apologize for this weird post...my car is long broke and i'm suffering from cabin fever.

best, billyballbumblingalong

East Sun

01-24-2010, 07:07 PM

billybobbutterball

01-24-2010, 09:11 PM

hi bbb,
i don't know if that was meant for me, but anyway----i like the way you think, with genuine understanding. thanks for the suggestion about ll research i have it in my bookmarks but did not get to it yet.
i have seen q'uo referred to but know nothing about that. i will look it up.
re: science. i mentioned this somewhere today, probably on another forum--when science starts to incorporate spiritual phenomena in their work we will make real progress. a few have and they are very interesting to read.
i was trying to quote tesler(sp) but can not remember his quote ver batem.

hi there es

yeah, i had you in mind for my 'proof' comments..( i mentioned the astral stuff because mark told us to get back on topic...truth is that it was better answered earlier on )

incidentally, of transient interest... tesler is tesla's evil twin brother....i'm not sure about your 'ver batem'....either you meant verboten or perhaps guessing from context, verbatim?

about applying science to spiritual issues...how? keep in mind that using the tools of science does not a science make! (":a few have"...? ...what where how??)

one problem against assembling solid proof is that pesky law of confusion...it is currently not allowable to nail down irrefutable proof concerning many types of spiritual observations....there must always be left a shadow of doubt to accommodate the closed minded by letting such non-sympathetics off the hook (what's the old saying?..yeah, ' a women convinced against her will remains of that same opinion still ...well, sorta..) in more kindly deference to such folk, many have pre-incarnation plans that do not allow them to be sidetracked into becoming true "believers"..it's not their role to play this time around --and certainly not our place to sandbag them into 'illumination' contrary to their predisposed will.

about q'uo and how it came about?..it was by latwii and the ra by creating a principle whereupon they could use carla without the presence of the required threesome....to be able to use her and others of llresearch in non-trance states... use the dc search engine to access the archives where this was discussed in detail....most interesting.

the non trance readings are of a different order and level than those from the original ra connection. but their information has provided a priceless and most wonderful library just begging to be exploited. q'uo and the witty latwii are loved by many. (i'm especially fond of latwii (5-d)because of his sense of humor...we both share persecution because our attempts of levity are not particularly appreciated by our more solemn peers):p

thanks all for your kind attention....best, billious g aka bbb

Perseus

01-30-2010, 09:53 AM

i had an interesting visual image from my 3rd eye regarding a cats claw and the following morning my pet cat attacked me for no reason.

i am aware that animals can be very sensitive and susceptable to the lower vibrations as they are physicaly 2d consciousness.

Nitro

03-14-2010, 01:21 PM

hi everyone :)
i was wondering if any of you knew the exact (scientific) differences between the astral plane and the dreaming plane and also among other planes of time/space.

from what i understand, the astral plane is a collective plane where you can interact with others and view places and things that exist in space/time. the dreaming plane on the other hand, is more of an individual plane where setting and objects are created by one's own subconscious mind.

when i had an obe experience (astral travel) once, i noticed that there was much more light than in my dreams. i also wonder if it were possible to see wormholes in hyperspace while astral projecting. any ideas?

TheChosen

03-16-2010, 03:32 AM

here is my take on the issue

it can be quite confusing because many people tend to think of densities in terms of dimensions (something to go to or from), which is not really a good analogy.

density in its most basic form is the level your total being is able to process from the totality of the universe... once you are able to process say 6th density than your focusing of your consciousness to that level of processing may mean 'traveling' to 6th density.

now we are currently in 3rd density, this physical body is not able to process above 3rd density with its current genetics , it is also not able to process any of the sub-densitites (astral / inner planes)... which means that in order for us to 'visit' any of these sub-densities or higher densities our consciousness must tune out of the physical body.

for most people the physical body needs to be shut down in sleep mode for this to happen. once it is so, the consciousness moves into the next available vessel that can hold it (which is the etheric and right afterwards the astral body)..

using the astral body one can then tune into the sub-densities (astral realms) but only to those to which the one has attained the proper activation inside this density (if you read the books of monroe where he sees this as rings around the planet, you can really get a very good feel on what this means)

now visiting the higher densities gets tricky, you are not really able to visit the higher densities in full (because for this you would need a higher density body) .. but you can visit the respective inner planes / sub densities of those higher densities , but only in case your being has already achieved a consciousness evolution of the respective density ... in other case you would simply not be able to process such a level of the universe.

it is quite confusing i know .. but to make things simple

inner planes/astral = all the planes we can access without the need of a full density body (be that 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th) .. this is what is termed time/space and applies to sub densities relative to all densities (thus once in time space of 3rd density then it becomes much easier to 'travel' to time space of other densities, if your being has achieved the proper level)... so a wanderer incarnated from 6th density would normally be able to tune into the sub-densities (astral planes) of 4th, 5th and 6th density... if such an experience would be able to be translated and kept within the limited mind of 3rd density physical body is a completely another matter (usually only fragments remain).. but the fact remains that access is possible (and often used) on a higher self / subconscious level .. which makes reality manipulation much easier and it is another reason why so many wanderers find it relatively easy to 'create their own reality'

density = the planes that can be accessed only through having a proper density body (usually gained through incarnation)... in theory you could swap bodies with someone else , usually happens with transfers of higher density consciousness into lower density bodies (a.k.a walk ins) - this is everything that can be termed space / time

Nitro

03-20-2010, 02:47 AM

ok i know the difference between densities and sub-densities (ty though). my question was about the astral plane only. do you have any ideas/tips on how to get to astral planes of higher densities? i'm able to consciously access the time-space of our density and have obes/lucid dreams at will, almost every night now. however, i don't really like it there. i have yet to have a decent experience or meet a pleasant entity there. every time i go in there, it's either nothing special or it's really disgusting. sometimes i wake up in the middle of the night and want to puke because of how sick feel from being there (it happens rarely and usually it's just nothing special). plus there are these annoying voices (usually at the beginning) trying to channel through me but i just block or ignore them. it's like please, i know exactly what you are and what you're trying to do and yet you're still pretending to be something you're not. i'm not afraid of them or anything because i know my true nature and its potential, and i know what they are. i just find them very annoying.

i'm not saying all my experiences are bad. it's just that i expected much more (like finally meeting my higher self and talking to it). sometimes i do have some interesting dreams. yesterday for example, i had a very vivid and peculiar dream in which i went back in time to 2005, saw clearly on tv that it was november 25th, 2005, met my family and told them what was going to happen to them in the future. another one where i met a beautiful girl(possibly my soul-mate idk), but when i left her house, i got shot in the head by some gangsters.
anyway, i would love to be able to go to higher astral planes. any advice would be great.
thank you.

TheChosen

03-22-2010, 07:55 AM

nitro: i was giving my view on the original first page post of this topic.

in any case as far as visiting astral layers of the higher densities goes, the short answer is that it is not possible to do so in full 3d conscious mode.

the reason for that is simple, you can go and visit the sub densities (astral layers) of 3rd density and bring back the memories of that experience inside the physical body (with great dificulty and only if you have the proper rays activated)

your consciousness could go and visit lets say 4th density astral layers, but to do so it would be operated from a level higher than your conscious 3d self and only in case that you are a wanderer (i.e. you've already achieved harvest in a different lifetime and already have evolved past 3rd density.. and now you are back on earth).

once such a 'visit' would occur, the experience would simply not be able to be fully 'translated' into your 3rd body because its 'resolution' is much bigger (4th density) than the body you are trying to download it to (3rd density body) ... its like trying to copy over 1 gigabytes of data onto a 100 megabytes disc... it just can't happen, data loss must occur.

so in short, my opinion is that for a visit to occur to a higher density you could focus your intent and let your higher parts of your consciousness do the visit .. and hope that some of the experience is translated into 3d and is brought back all the way to your physical body, so you can then remember it in some way... the rest of the experience would be locked to your conscious mind but still available through your intuition

i do think i've experienced such visits and its pretty surreal, i feel split into two different personalities with memories flushing in to the other one that knows what is doing and feels much more expanded than the 3d one .. while the 3d one is having a hard time to translate the experience into familiar 3d concepts. so the control of the experience is also mixed.. each time it was initiated by the other higher personality with the 3d one only becoming aware sometime during the process. robert bruce goes into length describing these levels of apparent consciousness override into his astral projection book (freely available on the net)

ColtMrFire

07-06-2010, 07:43 PM

t
how can it be that our first, second and third densities are merged together, while fourth density seems to be a completely seperate plane of existence?

i believe this is part of the "firewall" of our senses that david icke talks about...we are genetically engineered beings, we are not "normal" humans in the general sense...we carry genes from different species and were genetically manipulated to only perceive and recognize this density and ones below it to keep us from reaching full potential. because you can obviously perceive the astral plane, but education teaches us dreams and imagination are not real places...again, this is part of the manipulation, because the dream world or astral world or your imagination is a real place, it's the other side of the same coin that you're told is not real, yet it's just as real as the other side, we're only firewalled into space/time as the only true reality. this is why dreams/hopes/wishes,etc are hard to manifest because we don't perceive them as real, when all you would need to is perceive them as just as real as this reality and they would carry over into this realm, just like our realm carries over into the astral/dream realm, it's the same reality, but in one you have apparently more ability, but since you don't perceive it as real, when you wake up or open your eyes you life continues to suck.

this is the big lie the powers that were continually perpetrate. check out christopher nolan's new movie inception, with the tag line

"the dream is real"

hollywood is run by factions of these groups, with them putting the truth in movies as a silent contract for the manipulation, because everyone feels deep down this stuff is real, they just write it off because that's what they've been conditioned to do...but their soul knows what's up, but we don't listen to the soul we listen to the ego...and so the manipulation goes on.