Free Will

[kundalini]

something troubles me and it might just be that my progression through the books isn't enough yet to know the answer. but if free will is so important in the grand scheme of things, didn't ra compromise carla rueckert, don elkins, and jim mccarty's free will by transmitting the law of one to them?

it is very different for those of us who don't know l/l research personally as, when we find their books, we decide whether it resonates with us or not just like anything you find stumble across as a spiritual seeker. but if i had the law of one litterally beamed into my head from an entity in a higher density, there would be no doubt that this was the truth.

so many like jesus, gautama buddha, lao tzu and osho (i am an one of osho's sanyassins, just so you know) talk their people in circles which seems to follow this respect for the subjectivity of personal reality and free will. osho himself was often criticised for contradictions. but he would just say that what he tells one person, isn't necessarily right for everyone. infact it is most unlikely. you can't generalise things like this without being incredibly vague.

yet with the law of one ra really lays it out on a plate for everyone. sure there is a lot there that is open for interpretation.

please don't interpret this as some form of troll or negativity. i love l/l research and david for all the work they have done and continue to do in service to others. it is something that has inspired me to whole new realms of personal exploration. i was just curious what my brothers and sisters think about this little issue of free will.

much love
deva

[Silvanus Sanctus Germanus]

something troubles me and it might just be that my progression through the books isn't enough yet to know the answer. but if free will is so important in the grand scheme of things, didn't ra compromise carla rueckert, don elkins, and jim mccarty's free will by transmitting the law of one to them?

hi deva, welcome to the forum! as i understand it don, carla and later jim spent up to 20 years researching and reqesting such a transmission, without dedication perhaps the loo would never have pierced through in such a way.


it is very different for those of us who don't know l/l research personally as, when we find their books, we decide whether it resonates with us or not just like anything you find stumble across as a spiritual seeker. but if i had the law of one litterally beamed into my head from an entity in a higher density, there would be no doubt that this was the truth.

ra themselves are oblivious to the truth, they are a group of ascending beings learning as much as we are, it's just that they are communicating from a higher level of the octave, the 6th density, where they have their own mountain to climb. those of us who resonate with the loo realise that a portion of us resides in 6th density thus is progressing through the lessons of oneness.


but he would just say that what he tells one person, isn't necessarily right for everyone. in fact it is most unlikely. you can't generalise things like this without being incredibly vague.

all in all the ra material is vague, ra repeatedly refrained from answering questions which would infringe on our free will, and would ask you to toss any information aside that does not resonate with you as having no meaning on your path at this time.


yet with the law of one ra really lays it out on a plate for everyone. sure there is a lot there that is open for interpretation.

as you know the ra material was layed out in the form of answers of which much screening was done on the part of ra, and it is all open for interpretation.


please don't interpret this as some form of troll or negativity. i love l/l research and david for all the work they have done and continue to do in service to others. it is something that has inspired me to whole new realms of personal exploration. i was just curious what my brothers and sisters think about this little issue of free will.

not at all,:) it is perfectly natural to question the intentions of hyperdimentional contact from entities and groups. i think ra was very respectfull and nurturing towards our overall free will, this time around, having learnt from previous interactions. a big thanks to l/l research and david for helping make possible this far reaching vibratory state polarized in the most part by the underlying philosophy of the loo.............sylvain............

[kundalini]

well i couldn't have asked for a more concise answer. many thanks to you sylvain.

time to meditate on this me thinks!

=deva=

[KassandraLoves]

i also believe that some folks actually contract to do these kinds of things before an incarnation. the free will is still there, but the decision to deal with such things is obviously forgotten due to the "veil."

[Jivatman]

loo, 2.6

questioner: consider them asked. i don’t have anything to go on. what is the proper use of this instrument? what should we do? what should we do to maximize her ability and her comfort?

ra: i am ra. we are pleased that you have asked this question for it is not our understanding that we have the right/duty to share our perceptions on any subject but philosophy without direct question

at the very first contact, they immediately described their purpose and message of the loo in a concise matter.

i believe that,

1. this immediate statement would prevent future free will violations if it happened that they group did not want to know more, or to be in contact with somebody who had such a mission. it was a clear, earnest statement hoping to prevent any hint or deception/misunderstanding.

2. miracles as performed by jesus, buddha, others have a great possibility of causing free will violations if performed nowadays. note 7.8


ra: i am ra. we do not calculate the possibility of coming among your peoples by the numbers of calling, but by a consensus among an entire societal-memory complex which has become aware of the infinite consciousness of all things. this has been possible among your peoples only in isolated instances.


channeling/loo material is unprovable - and ra made great lengths to make it so, by, for example, refusing to disclose the location of specific items.

scientific mindsets on earth now are so great that doing so would have almost inevitably violated free will.

[Babyblue]

i believe that the channels agree before hand to be the channels, if they don't want to be the channels they can close the connection down.

its like someone telephones you, you can decide if you want to hang up or listen, but you gave them your telephone number before hand.

we always have the freewill to listen and read something, or forget it.

i saw a ufo when i was young very close, i didnt believe in ufo's until i saw it.
seeing it changed everything, was my freewill violated ? no. on the inside i was looking for answers to life and so i got a big wake up call, probably agreed upon before this life time to awaken my conciousness to things bigger then myself.

lots of love
babyblue x x x

[kundalini]

i'm starting to understand now. ra never said anything against the will of l/l. they simply responded to direct questions which are indeed the will of the questioner.

=deva=

[Berry Chastain]

an acquaintance of mine who does a weekly poll/survey whatever you want to call it, asked this question of his contact this week:

a progressive believes that it is the fundamental right of a "human being" to "chose". this "human being", if left to that basic freedom, will, because of "progression", eventually....over time (because time and knowledge are key), make the "right" choice. if you believe this is correct, then why? if not, why?

i have told him that i have a very unorthodox belief system and that sometimes my answers may not please all of his audience. he told me that that matters not. i have shared some of the literature with which we are all now familiar with him. so far have not had a response from him about it. in any case, in response to the above question i posted the following answer which i believe reflect the basic law of one philosophy. i would appreciate any comments regarding this dialogue.


freewill, is first of all and primarily the ultimate bestowed gift of the creator. the opportunity to make choices is the means by which a person is able to grow spiritually as well as intellectually. if one considers that the human spirit is an eternal being experiencing a series of physical human existances, then there are no wrong choices but only lessons to be learned which is what physical incarnation is all about as that spiritual entity evolves toward unity with the one inifinite creator and ultimate spiritual maturity. those choice which are presented to an individual are in fact catalysts for which the main purpose is to stimulate the individual to chose between serving self, or serving others. service to self does nothing to advance the evolution of an individuals spiritual growth whereas service to others not only advances the self and higher self, but those to whom the service is rendered. consequently, as a spirit (soul) evolves there will be a learning curve which in the culmination of the lessons will influence the individual to make the positive, upward, service to others choice

[aqcheryl]

i think its just a matter of how open you are as well. if you do not shield yourself, and leave yourself to being open spiritually, then something can possess you, or channel through you.

some things are good, like ra - some things not so good, like 'demonic'. if asked you could say no i would never invite them - but unless you are strong spiritually, you could have a neon sign invitation.

even if carla had not pursued the contact, they could have contacted her just by being open. it takes alot of strength in constitution to knowingly be open to channeling.

[Truth180]

been thinking about freewill today and isn't everyones freewill being interfered by todays society. like having to go to work everyday and school or church. having to earn money in order to make a living and live by the laws that are put in place. i think laws are put their to protect people from harm, but those people who don't mean any harm can break a law and get into trouble also. isn't their freewill being interfered with?

[charles obscure]

freewill, is first of all and primarily the ultimate bestowed gift of the creator. the opportunity to make choices is the means by which a person is able to grow spiritually as well as intellectually. if one considers that the human spirit is an eternal being experiencing a series of physical human existances, then there are no wrong choices but only lessons to be learned which is what physical incarnation is all about as that spiritual entity evolves toward unity with the one inifinite creator and ultimate spiritual maturity. those choice which are presented to an individual are in fact catalysts for which the main purpose is to stimulate the individual to chose between serving self, or serving others. service to self does nothing to advance the evolution of an individuals spiritual growth whereas service to others not only advances the self and higher self, but those to whom the service is rendered. consequently, as a spirit (soul) evolves there will be a learning curve which in the culmination of the lessons will influence the individual to make the positive, upward, service to others choice


i believe the statement in bold to be incorrect, not reflective of the law of one and also contradictory of previous statements made by the same entity earlier in the same paragraph - namely the idea that anything and everything we experience here ultimately advances the evolution of one's spiritual growth.

this issue is talked about in the ra material, when ra reveals that a negative entity can more easily switch polarities than one who is more neutrally polarized, as the more one polarizes in either direction the more spritually aware an individual is. if an entity can become more spritually aware by polarizing negatively, clearly spiritual growth is being made. if a 5th density negative entity can pierce through to the oneness of 6th density with enough effort than definetely spiritual growth has occured in the negative densities.

do i think the positive path is a more efficient and wiser choice for those incarnate here at this time - yes. do i think it is the only path which advances spritual growth - absolutely not.

[Berry Chastain]

charles, i appreciate the comments you made especially regarding the service to self pathway not leading to spiritual growth and evolution. when i made that statement, it was not originally intended for the dc forum, but was addressed to some individuals who are not at all aware of the law of one information. if i had indicated that the negative path of service to self was in itself a valid pathway toward attaining oneness with all that is, it would have been completely incredible to those individuals.

i discussed this issue with the mods before they ever allowed the post to be submitted, and i agree with you completely. the fact is that the very inference that a spirit/soul is on a pathway encompassing many physical lives was daring to begin with considering the extreme fundamentalist mindset of those people. i haven't as yet seen any responses to this statement and it will be interesting to see the fireworks it will cause.

[kundalini]

thanks for the input there berry. i honestly can't see what you said causeing too much in the way of fireworks as charles pointed out, its all pretty much in order. i think most people who have some experience, even limited, would agree with those statements or at least resonate with your ideas. its really just that one like that charles pulled you up on, but you said it was a case of context.

i don't want to get off topic here, but its strange to me that you would distort your message from what you believe based on your audience. withholding information is one thing, but thats a little different. i think if a person resonates with this subject material they will take to it. distorting the message only messes with that process in my opinion. thinking about it, this might not be as offtopic as i thought. does editing your message in such a way conflict with an entities freedom to process the information as a whole rather than filtered through your mind complex?

just some thoughts. i hope i don't seem too hostile. i mean it with the greatest respect.

[AmentiHall]

the creator forgets who he/she/it is in order to play the game :) that is free will.

we are infinite, multitudes of potentiality of expression of one another. we are all one, manifesting, forgetting where we came from- so as to experience the ultimate gift of free will. a gift, the one bestowed onto itself :)

free will interfered with? sure. the way upper energies work is we are deceived into interfering with our own free will, as a collective- that way these beings do not have to be responsible karmically for our actions. these are similar to the orion group.

it is our responsibility and choice to raise our level of awareness to be able to correct this- but humans in our planet, have expressed their own free will in attempting to further entrap us within the cycle. this is the game...we might appear to be in conflicts and aquire enemies on our path to enlightenment :) but at the end of it all, at the end of the cycles.....we will all realize we are still one.

[noel1111]

been thinking about freewill today and isn't everyones freewill being interfered by todays society. like having to go to work everyday and school or church. having to earn money in order to make a living and live by the laws that are put in place. i think laws are put their to protect people from harm, but those people who don't mean any harm can break a law and get into trouble also. isn't their freewill being interfered with?

i too have been thinking about freewill and the gov't and something has been plexing me. maybe someone can shed some light on this.... recently i was reading about bily meier and the enoch prophecies... about how our own gov't are working on weapons that could destroy the entire ozone layer and cause much destruction, chaos and death. let us assume that billy meier did have contact with et's who told him of the world's future. isn't all of our freewill being compromised because such things as et's and end time prophecies have not been made aware to the general public? if they are kept blind on purpose then how can they make any freewill decisions?

do our governements purposefully hide from us the truth on a miriad of subjects on a daily basis? and if so why wouldn't a higher life form who knows how the people are constantly being deceived feel the need to disclose everything to the people so they can make their own freewill decisions? i know i was blind for a very long time and thought the only thing we were supposed to do in life is work, get money, buy house and car and procreate. most of the masses are still kept in that blindness simply because no one has showed them anything different.

isn't it extremely unbalanced to hang the future of the world on a tiny grouping of people like david and billy to "get the word out"? against the larger whole of the negative elite and the gov'ts of the world who have the power to control, and make decisions for the masses, without ever asking what the masses really want? it just seems like a huge uphill battle for the lightworkers.

i think i am probobly missing a large part of the puzzle here but this has been bothering me. i don't understand how the people are supposed to make freewill decisions if they are kept in the dark on purpose. how can they ever see the other side in order to make an informed decision. ugh... my brain hurts today.

[Truth180]

i too have been thinking about freewill and the gov't and something has been plexing me. maybe someone can shed some light on this.... recently i was reading about bily meier and the enoch prophecies... about how our own gov't are working on weapons that could destroy the entire ozone layer and cause much destruction, chaos and death. let us assume that billy meier did have contact with et's who told him of the world's future. isn't all of our freewill being compromised because such things as et's and end time prophecies have not been made aware to the general public? if they are kept blind on purpose then how can they make any freewill decisions?

do our governements purposefully hide from us the truth on a miriad of subjects on a daily basis? and if so why wouldn't a higher life form who knows how the people are constantly being deceived feel the need to disclose everything to the people so they can make their own freewill decisions? i know i was blind for a very long time and thought the only thing we were supposed to do in life is work, get money, buy house and car and procreate. most of the masses are still kept in that blindness simply because no one has showed them anything different.

isn't it extremely unbalanced to hang the future of the world on a tiny grouping of people like david and billy to "get the word out"? against the larger whole of the negative elite and the gov'ts of the world who have the power to control, and make decisions for the masses, without ever asking what the masses really want? it just seems like a huge uphill battle for the lightworkers.

i think i am probobly missing a large part of the puzzle here but this has been bothering me. i don't understand how the people are supposed to make freewill decisions if they are kept in the dark on purpose. how can they ever see the other side in order to make an informed decision. ugh... my brain hurts today.


i know and everytime i think about these things i think inside the box and then outside and look at the whole picture and then wonder why even talk about it, because there is a reason for it all and the more opputunities for spiritual growth. everyday its like this and sleep thinking. thinking about thinking. :eek:

[Berry Chastain]

here is the only response to my post to that question. i think as you read it you will understand why i avoided posing the proposition that the negative path is also on the eventual vector which lead to oneness with the creator. this is a typical christian fundamentalist response to what we know is truth.

quote:
i agree that we have the freedom to chose and it is a god given freedom. however, from a christian standpoint i will have to go with what our lord said, "he did not put his trust in man....for he knew what was in man." - jn 2:24....and what is in man? "the human heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" - jeremiah 17:9. man is not the answer because we are not progressing but regressing. every nation on the face of the earth goes through this same thing...from the roman empire, the persion empire, the european empire and even israel itself. the human heart is truly wicked and just our life here in america has shown that. freedom only brings rebellion against god or the standards that were originally set up in a particular nation. when given the choice we choose selfishness as a whole and we choose to follow the dictates of our heart.i realize not everyone is this way but for the most part human nature has to be taught selflessness. we already are selfish. i also would like to think that we all could solve the problem of selfishness if we could just band together and do good things. that, however, i have found is an impossible task. the greatest call for the human being is to love god with all of your heart, mind, soul and strength and love your neigbor as you love yourself. this command is impossible to follow! i have tried and become extremely frustated and it was not until i surrendered everything that i am, i hope to be, or have in this world that i knew i couldn't. thank god i got to that place or i would be one frustrated and angry person. the answer to this worlds problems is the change that comes when a person surrenders his whole being and puts his trust in the savior. until then we will be forever regressing.


at this point i would like to make a response to that individual but it would be like throwing snowballs into a bonfire.

it will be interesting to view your responses to this persons defenses.
love and light,
berry

[kundalini]

i can see why you would get frustrated with that berry. i have been in similar positions with christian friends and such. i don't have anything to do with it now. i'm not a great debater like dw anyway. i have my ideas, others have their beliefs. i wouldn't want to interfere with what they seem to be polarised for in this incarnation. but i have found a rarely tell people my ideas about the bigger picture. its just too much of a can of worms. i'd sooner just tell them i love them. that expresses it better than going into the details, however confused that might leave them.

[billybobbutterball]

an acquaintance of mine who does a weekly poll/survey whatever you want to call it, asked this question of his contact this week:

[ freewill, is first of all and primarily the ultimate bestowed gift of the creator. the opportunity to make choices is the means by which a person is able to grow spiritually as well as intellectually. if one considers that the human spirit is an eternal being experiencing a series of physical human existances, then there are no wrong choices but only lessons to be learned which is what physical incarnation is all about as that spiritual entity evolves toward unity with the one inifinite creator and ultimate spiritual maturity. those choice which are presented to an individual are in fact catalysts for which the main purpose is to stimulate the individual to chose between serving self, or serving others. service to self does nothing to advance the evolution of an individuals spiritual growth whereas service to others not only advances the self and higher self, but those to whom the service is rendered. consequently, as a spirit (soul) evolves there will be a learning curve which in the culmination of the lessons will influence the individual to make the positive, upward, service to others choice

hi guys, bbb here.

as one of the moderators i saw berry's post when it was being approved. i wrote berry my impressions at the time. he agreed with my observation and kindly invited me to bring my caveats to the thread. rather than write something new, i chose the lazy path! here is the original private message to berry. berry explained that he tried to accomodate his letter to fit the situation. that is understandable...

hi berry,,,. bill g here.

i'm lousy at finding theads, etc. so am waiting for someone smarter to approve your post.


to jump the gun i have two thought about it...my biggest concern is this statement of yours:

"service to self does nothing to advance the evolution of an individuals spiritual growth whereas service to others not only advances the self and higher self, but those to whom the service is rendered. consequently, as a spirit (soul) evolves there will be a learning curve which in the culmination of the lessons will influence the individual to make the positive, upward, service to others choice "

from past things you have written i'm surprised since you know as well as i do that the "left hand" negative path certainly does advance one spiritually -- right up to the early 6th density where they finally hit the glass ceiling and have to flip polarity to keep on advancing ... which they can do relatively easily because of the tremendous level of self-discipline they have acquired. and the ra states that through their service they are able to bring a wealth of data to the table that is much appreciated.

another point concerns the so-called freedom of the will...which you are defining by the mere effect of "choice" rather than its underlying cause, which is a product of one's "nature"...i like the description that the will consists of "the abiding inclination of the permanent spirtual self".

the truth is that in the special sense of "self determination" the will is indeed free, but on the other side of the coin it is in turn bound by its own nature....as martin luther argued in his stunning response to erasmus, via his great work, "on the bondage of the will"

although most everyone assumes that they have free will as a 'given' they can't really define it. the truth is that the supposedly holy grail concept of "free will" is more apparent than real. think about it...even the will of the one creator is not the freedom of unbridled almightiness but rather it is will governed by the creator's underlying absolute nature.

well, that was more windy than intended!

good cheers, berry, i do appreciate your posts very much... (sorry i once called you "beery" via typo...it was not done by a free will decision!)

concerning the feebleness of "free will"...it has been said that in any contest between the will and the imagination, finds imagination winning hands down. :p

best (apologies that i'm coming in so very late!) luv, etc. billybobbutterball:)

[kundalini]

concerning the feebleness of "free will"...it has been said that in any contest between the will and the imagination, finds imagination winning hands down.

thanks for giving some insight there billy. you lost me with this last bit though. i'm not really sure why free will is in competition with imagination. i don't understand the connection. i'm not saying your statement is wrong. i think i'm either missing something or just lacking the practical intelligence to comprehend the connection.

[billybobbutterball]

thanks for giving some insight there billy. you lost me with this last bit though. i'm not really sure why free will is in competition with imagination. i don't understand the connection. i'm not saying your statement is wrong. i think i'm either missing something or just lacking the practical intelligence to comprehend the connection.

hi, kunda

think of yourself trying to keep a blank mind for ten minutes, then your yogi teacher tells you he can see your salaciously gorgeous girlfriend, bubbles laboom, lounging by the pool in her bikini while making eyes at the handsome young tennis pro just arrived from italy.

your will says, "blank mind, blank mind".... meanwhile, your imagination starts to runs wild. very soon no more blank-slate mind.:d

last sunday i was four days along on a diet. a friend offered me some chocolate cookies. i said,. "no thanks", told her, "i'm on a diet." i did think a bit about the offer...ten minutes later i came back.

on the way home i stopped at the super market and picked up.....well, i only ate three on the drive home, and kept the cookies in the kitchen, that way i used my will power and only went back for two at a time. as i type this i can feel cookie crumbs crunching under my mouse. then there was something soft and bumpy. perhaps an overlooked chocolate chip?"

that darn imagination is making me hungry again!!:p

those are pretty lousy examples, but you should get the idea.:o

billybobbutterfinger

[kundalini]

thanks for the reply billy. but i'm more confused to what end you mean this. i see examples causing tempory distraction from the clarity of existence, but not a lot more. are we talking about the nature of reality here? that sure is a can of worms i don't want to try to get my head around at this time of the morning, hehe.

just feeling a bit lost. in my experience the mind is always seeming to be working against us. i can't really explain it. lack of mental discipline maybe? god knows i'm terrible for that. got this new habbit of falling asleep while meditating.

just seems to me like these things should be experienced before trying to keep a clear head. get it out. live it. do it. whatever. am i missing the point here?

[billybobbutterball]

thanks for the reply billy. but i'm more confused to what end you mean this. i see examples causing tempory distraction from the clarity of existence, but not a lot more. are we talking about the nature of reality here? that sure is a can of worms i don't want to try to get my head around at this time of the morning, hehe.

just feeling a bit lost. in my experience the mind is always seeming to be working against us. i can't really explain it. lack of mental discipline maybe? god knows i'm terrible for that. got this new habbit of falling asleep while meditating.

just seems to me like these things should be experienced before trying to keep a clear head. get it out. live it. do it. whatever. am i missing the point here?

hi, kunda...now you have me confused. :p

your examples mentioned above are not distracting from the clarity of existence...they are examples of existence, no, i'm not talking about the nature of reality -- nothing that metaphysically deep. you mention that your mind always seems to be working against you...that is a general description of imagination unleashed.

as i said, in a battle between the power of the "will" against the powerful distraction of imagination, imagination always/generally wins the tugging contest. :eek:

the concept of so-called free will is all over the board. the will is surrounded by all sorts of constrictures that make it look more like captive will than free will. the only part that is really free is that aspect which is subjective.

the heart of a person's "free will" is not determined by things either taken away or put into its power...such as education, cars, money, women opportunities.:)

the question concerning the will is not what a man can execute whatever he determined in his mind, but whether his understanding exerts freedom of judgment and his will freedom of inclination.

an extreme example of this was offered 500 years ago by john calvin.

... if men possess freedom of inclination and that of judgment then the captive general attilius regulus when confined in the small extent of a cask stuck round with nails, will possess as much free will as mighty augustus caesar who rules the world with his staff of power.

that takes some pondering!

in the loo we have the law of confusion. its generally understood to have something to do with not interfering with the "freedom" of the will, i.e., not grossly upsetting a person's particular balance of judgement and inclination... especially not compelling change in a person's belief system by giving overwhelmingly persuasive evidences. (the old saying comes to mind, "a woman convinced against her will is of that same opinion still"), or in the second sense of interfering with a persons natural accumulation of unique experience and development by supplying unwarranted shortcuts.

boy! this is pretty dense! and worse, leaves out a bunch. i do hope that it will serve to clear up some confusion (such as..."drats! they are interfering with my freedom of will by not letting me do something or the other!....etc." wrong concept! )

needed disclaimer! the above material is not official dc material and is offered without imprimatur from ra, latwii, q'uo, or david w.

i don't understand it either, bbb

[ds37ds]

hi bbb,

i really wanted to elaborate more on your two examples of free will being in competition with imagination (which are very good btw) but i have a feeling i would be either taking the bait or stating the obvious, so i will be quiet for once. do let me know if you don't know what i'm talking about, won't you. it could just be my imagination after all.

as for providing information or evidence that interferes with someone's natural progression, my personal opinion on this is that whenever this has happened, i didn't actually understand what the person was talking about and didn't give it too much afterthought. however, i may have come across the same information, which meant nothing to me at the time, a few months or even years later and got it, so i don't know if it's really all that easy to interfere with someone's free will in this context.

ds

[billybobbutterball]

hi bbb,

i really wanted to elaborate more on your two examples of free will being in competition with imagination (which are very good btw) but i have a feeling i would be either taking the bait or stating the obvious, so i will be quiet for once. do let me know if you don't know what i'm talking about, won't you. it could just be my imagination after all.

as for providing information or evidence that interferes with someone's natural progression, my personal opinion on this is that whenever this has happened, i didn't actually understand what the person was talking about and didn't give it too much afterthought. however, i may have come across the same information, which meant nothing to me at the time, a few months or even years later and got it, so i don't know if it's really all that easy to interfere with someone's free will in this context.

ds

hi, distraut,

for a moment there you caught me off guard....i first misread the above as, "do let me know if you don't know what you are talking about." :eek:my immediate thought was to hang my head and humbly confess all. whew! glad i went back and looked at it again:cool:

you are coming at this from a different angle. i would guess that 99.44/100 of humans are actively interfering with numerous other entity's free wills-- doing such seems to be our nature. ideally we should not offer help unless we are asked. (that takes all the fun out of it!)

in the case of the ra they are in a special position of responsibility being a 6d social memory everything thrown in complex. first, they don't want to upset our particular apple carts and secondly, they don't want to accumulate any more karma for doing such misdeeds.

(note: my keyboard is eating up my text if i try to go back and fix an error...so if the writing seems awkward that is part of the reason..!)

it seems to me that everyone that visits this site is in danger of having their will manipulated...free or otherwize defeating the law of confusion.

i don't think we should get too tightly hung up on the question.

my main purpose for writing is to show that the bandied around term, "free will" is not that easy to understand, and students blow it all out of proportion in thinking that it covers more territory concening our state of being than it actually does. (not having enough money interfers with my right of free will!!!:mad:

some modern definitions seem to get things backwards in thinking the will is only the power of exerting volitions, and overlooks the fact that the heart of the will is best described as power of the heart ...desire, inclination.

try this on for size:"he freedom of the will is primarily a self determination to a single end, and not a choice between two yet unchosen contrary ends."

(please put a t in front of the h for me. ok?)

now there is the power of choice....pick one or another or something out of a bunch. the law of confusion blinds our eye and we just bounce around like a metal marble in a pinball machine...and that is largely what we are supposed to do....exploring bunny trails. that is part of the reason that we are sent into this world like babies being parachuted into the amazon rain forest.

as many have found the "free" will doesn't have much power to change the nasty, dark, abiding will.:o(i now will to love everybody with all my heart and to be bouncingly all smiles and happiness about it).. that kind of direct approach in this density is generally a sure recipe for frustration and failure...in other words, it don't work too good!

we must approach the changing of the will by being sneaky....we go around sideways, doing affrimations. meditations, coaching it,praying for all concerned, we have to seduce it (in a good way, that is) if we can change our nature to the good side then our will will go right along!

please understand that this is not spelled out in the ra philosophy of religion.
so if something here is helpful, then fine...otherwise wave it goodby as you move on to something more resonant.


my best for all! bill g aka bbb pardon the unfixable typos...

[ds37ds]

bbb said:
for a moment there you caught me off guard....i first misread the above as, "do let me know if you don't know what you are talking about."

hahahaha! why on earth would i want to say or imply anything of the kind to a mod! just kidding!

and
hi, distraut,

i think it's 'distraught', but the spelling doesn't change the fact that i really don't know what you're talking about now!

i have noticed that you called berry 'beery'. now i take that a sign and i don't want plant any unwanted seeds in your mind but the sun is shining and a nice cold ale (dark brew) while sitting in the sun is good for strengthening bones.

cheers
ds

[billybobbutterball]

bbb said:
for a moment there you caught me off guard....i first misread the above as, "do let me know if you don't know what you are talking about."

hahahaha! why on earth would i want to say or imply anything of the kind to a mod! just kidding!

and
hi, distraut,

i think it's 'distraught', but the spelling doesn't change the fact that i really don't know what you're talking about now!

i have noticed that you called berry 'beery'. now i take that a sign and i don't want plant any unwanted seeds in your mind but the sun is shining and a nice cold ale (dark brew) while sitting in the sun is good for strengthening bones.

cheers
ds

hi, ds.

sorry, i thought everybody knew......distraut is the maldekian spelling varient.:p

also you would be surprised (maybe not?) concerning the outrageous level of vituperative vile conveyed by pm's addressed to your mod squad. :eek:

note: suggesting beer drinking is a major violation of my free will.

ds37ds, i'm making a wild guess in that i have failed utterly to supply pertinent answers to your query. :o

if you still feel like it please reform your question(s) in a way that i can't miss your intention. i will try mightily to stay on track. ok?:)

bbb your humble servant

[ds37ds]

dear bbb,

what i am saying or not saying is not any different to trying to explain what

free will 'is' or 'is not' or 'how much' free will we 'have' or 'have not got'.

there is no greater teacher than experience. it is all part of the process.

peace
ds

[mcrachierach]

i think – good lord, what does she think – i think that the matter is simpler, and way more obtuse, than is easy to figure out over coffee.

who am i? well, i’m pretty sure i’m a personality named rachel. but, what does that mean? it means that i am a point of focus. i’m actually quite a tightly focused point. so tightly focus, in fact, that i cannot ‘see’ the greater majesty of my being. i cannot ‘see’ that i am an expression of my soul, my ‘higher’ self. i cannot see that that higher self is part of an even greater, or higher, self. i cannot see that there are other ‘personalities’, or points of focus expressed from my soul, or other souls expressed from that higher soul, or even that all points of focus, all selves, all souls, all whatever you what to call it, are all part of an all-that-is, all part of the tao.

when you take a concept like the tao is in everything, and everything is in the tao, and you chew on it for a decade or two, you start to go permanently cross-eyed ;^) no, but seriously, the reason we struggle to wrap our heads around such concepts, is that they are far simpler than we are used to work with.

every single point, even a quark, is a point of focus. so what are you? are you dan, or tony, or brenda, or rachel? are you a collection of billions of self-determinate cells? are you a collection of uncountable atoms? are you an infinite set of energy points, with infinite permutations of possibility? good lord, if you’re all that, you must be god!

yet, you’re also part of something. you’re part of the earth, which is part of the galaxy, which is part of the universe, which is part of all possible forms of reality, etcetera, etcetera, ad nauseam.

wow! you are part of something big, and small, and something big is part of you, and something small is part of you… wait a minute. where was free will again? ;^)

2c

[kundalini]

the question concerning the will is not what a man can execute whatever he determined in his mind, but whether his understanding exerts freedom of judgment and his will freedom of inclination.

thanks for that. makes a lot of sense. it did take some pondering. freedom of judgement and inclination in understanding. it kinda links back to the importance of awareness, as without it you couldn't have such freedoms.

i like it. thanks bbb.

[RayneboWolf]

as we have free will, we choose what we shall allow to happen to ourselves.
intuition, which is our inner guidance system,tells us what is right for us ( and it should be trusted, as it never fails us,when we do ).
through free will we can choose to ignore that inner guide of intuition and let things happen to us that intuition clearly tells us that we should not do.we cannot blame others for things as a result of that choice for we are the ones who made it.
if we do things that intuition says we should not, then that is free will, being misused.
if however we use our free will in accordance with what our inner guide of intuition is telling us,then we walk with the "knowing" that we chose to listen to our own intuition and that misusing our free will is only a result of ignoring that inner guidance system.
the reason i say that it`s "misusing" our free will is because free will should be balanced with intuition in order to affect harmony in ones life and environment to achieve contentmant within that balance in order to be in a place of true compassion for others.
so it becomes a positive force when we work with free will coupled with intuition and it becomes a negative force when we work only with free will, that our inner guidance system ( tells us in no uncertain terms), will lead us into inbalance and dis-harm-ony.
thats the yin and yang of it.
today the corporate media news, radio and tv stations have become our main informers of "consensus reality", they tell us what is true and what is right and good for us.yet intuition,never being wrong,often tellls us that what we are ( sometimes) told is not how it really is.those that choose to follow that media, will at times become confused as there is a direct conflict between their intuition and that which is presented before them.we have been told not to trust in our intuition ,that "it`s just our imagination running riot", so not surprisingly due to that fact,confusion over trusting the inner guidance system versus the "consensus reality" presented, shall manifest itself.
existing now in the 3rd density, we are seeing more conflict both in terms of inter relationships and on a grander scale, between nations, acting out of free will misused and disbelieving in our inner guides.this is a part of the changes that are now upon us,unfolding as it should, as we reach the final days of this space time continuum.:d





i know and everytime i think about these things i think inside the box and then outside and look at the whole picture and then wonder why even talk about it, because there is a reason for it all and the more opputunities for spiritual growth. everyday its like this and sleep thinking. thinking about thinking. :eek:

[kundalini]

i might be remembering this wrong, but i am sure i remember it stating in the loo somewhere that trying to violate another entities free will after 3rd density is akin to us driving a car into a brick wall (probably not those words, but you get the idea). it would seem to me that our little bubble 3rd density veiled reality thing we have going here is unique in the fact that free will can actually be stepped all over by another being and have no immediate consequence (although i'm pretty sure there still must be karmic consequences in order to create a teaching catalyst style mechanism). i don't know about you, but this says to me that a lot of the choices we're supposed to make that are mean't to be the central mechanism of 3rd density, so to speak, are probably to do with this ability to more directly effect the free will of other selves. imagine a world where free will can't be effected in such a way. there is no choice. no choice - no experience. no experience - little opportunity for polarisation. so it would be my assumption that demanstrating the will to not mess with the free will of other selves would actually create positive sto polarisation. actively demanstrating the desire to effect the free will of other selves would in turn create negative sts polarisation. all sounds like a good bit of crystalisation of being to me. great, right? i could be way off here. my higher self didn't seem to think to bless me with a mind like david's. i could be oversimplifying this. i can almost here the ra chuckling at my lack of vision, hehe!

[noppy]

i wonder what the soul thinks about the free-will, it knows everyting that excist and the soul knows that she is one with everything. are their diffrent kinds of levels on free-will? like the ego thinks her free-will is damage or interfer with but the soul knows that is imposible?
if that is true than it means there is more than just one reality. an perceived reality- what we think it is now, and an ultimate reality - the truth of what is happening in the now moment. living in the ultimate reality is soul level, it's truth, joy and love. living on a percieved reality is past past past data living in your mind. but the mind doesn't know the diffrence between what is now and what has happend. so it will give us past data. the soul give us now data.
how does it work? all those aspect in ourselfs comunicating with one or the other and yet we don't know one single thing of it? is it a part of us that we have and on which of these aspect are we living on? if these aspect of ourself is what we have (mind,body,soul) than who am i? if i have choice to chose between those 3 and create tons of layers within. than who am i? i canot be one of them or all 3 togheter.

are we an aspect of god that is individual, created in her likeness and his equal. and we have been given the tools to create our lives.

i don't realy know it, i'm just 17. but i don't want wait till i am 40 or 60, creating unessecery life experience so i can find the truth about who i am and other spritual stuff that has so many layers. heavens no, that's not the reason why i am here, it's not in my agenda.

[kundalini]

i don't realy know it, i'm just 17. but i don't want wait till i am 40 or 60, creating unessecery life experience so i can find the truth about who i am and other spritual stuff that has so many layers. heavens no, that's not the reason why i am here, it's not in my agenda.

do you like cooking noppy? i do, its sort of relaxing to me. say i was to take one of my favourite veggie burgers out of the freezer and put it under the grill. i'm hungry so i get impatient. i decide to put the grill on full power to get her cooked nice and fast so i can enjoy it asap. its not long before my veggie burger begins to char and burn so i bring her out and plate her up. but when i cut into it a tragedy unfolds. it may be a little burnt on the outside, but its still frozen on the inside. i can't eat this. my belly remains empty. my hunger unsatisfied.

if i lost you in my childish metaphor let me explain. existence is like cooking that burger. it takes time. a low heat for a longer time would have made the perfect burger. our soul evolution is the same. you can't rush it.

as far as ra is concerned, you are the creator experiencing itself subjectivly. your awareness of the universe is perception based due to the veil. as annoying as that is, remember that veil is there for good reason. it makes sure that our time is never ever wasted. all experience has the potencial for polarisation. ra said somewhere in the loo that this isn't the density of knowing. this is simply the place to make a choice - sts or sto. but this choice doesn't even have to be concious either. looking at the language you use you're obviously a very powerful seeker at the age of 17. you're already aware of things and processes in the universe that it takes some people their whole lives to figure out. the veil has thinned for you at an early age. a gift from your higher self i would expect. rejoice in this for it truly is the greatest gift you can recieve in this world. anything to thin that veil a little bit so you can get even the tiniest sense of what this madness is really about. most importantly of all - listen to your heart/gut/intuition or whatever you feel like calling it. it won't steer you wrong if you're honest about it.

[Purple Dragon]

i agree with kundalini, noppy it sounds like you have already started on your path to your spiritual awareness. a point to note as well is that this is but one life we are living, we have no idea what we have learned in our past existences, all we can do is do the best we can and learn what resonates with us to help us make our final choice.

l&l

pd

[Echo]

something troubles me and it might just be that my progression through the books isn't enough yet to know the answer. but if free will is so important in the grand scheme of things, didn't ra compromise carla rueckert, don elkins, and jim mccarty's free will by transmitting the law of one to them?

it is very different for those of us who don't know l/l research personally as, when we find their books, we decide whether it resonates with us or not just like anything you find stumble across as a spiritual seeker. but if i had the law of one litterally beamed into my head from an entity in a higher density, there would be no doubt that this was the truth.

so many like jesus, gautama buddha, lao tzu and osho (i am an one of osho's sanyassins, just so you know) talk their people in circles which seems to follow this respect for the subjectivity of personal reality and free will. osho himself was often criticised for contradictions. but he would just say that what he tells one person, isn't necessarily right for everyone. infact it is most unlikely. you can't generalise things like this without being incredibly vague.

yet with the law of one ra really lays it out on a plate for everyone. sure there is a lot there that is open for interpretation.

please don't interpret this as some form of troll or negativity. i love l/l research and david for all the work they have done and continue to do in service to others. it is something that has inspired me to whole new realms of personal exploration. i was just curious what my brothers and sisters think about this little issue of free will.

much love
deva

much love in your attempt to understand free will. service to others is key and this in itself is service to others in a way you might not understand deva. thanks!

:)

[billybobbutterball]

hi, guys.
i promised a friend that i would type up some definitions of free will --largely cause i can't find some long-ago stuff hiding in the archive.. so i thought to post it here for your reading pleasure. :rolleyes:

the thing is, most everyone assumes they have "free will" but don't really know what is and isn't. the ra doesn't disect it...the question was never asked.. but i believe the following is within the spirit of the law of one.


hi, xxxx...as promised, i finally typed up the definitions of the will as given by wgt shedd....who remains an intellectual hero of mine. he was considered the most speculative and philosophically able of those theologians inhabiting nineteenth century following the civil war to the dawn of the twentieth.

summary concerning the freedom of the human will

it is objected that if the will is not able to accomplish certain tasks it is
not "free" this objection requires a definition of finite freedom both negatively and
positively.


negatively, finite freedom is not


(a the freedom of omnipotence. there are many things out of a man's power, but this does not prove that he is forced (necessitated) within his
own proper sphere of action.

(b nor the freedom of independence this species of freedom requires self-existence and self sustentation. human beings are not beyond the influence of other entities or circumstances.

(c nor freedom from the internal consequences of voluntary action. the formation of a habit is voluntary; but when the habit has been voluntarily formed it cannot be eradicated by a volition...ie, through a simple act of the will.

(d nor freedom from the external consequences of voluntary action. the objective fact caused by the will cannot be destroyed by the will. the suicide cannot restore himself to life; the homicide cannot bring his victim back to life.

(e nor is it freedom from action itself. the will is not free not to act at all.
the will must will as the mind must think something. inaction of the will is impossible, like inaction of the understanding.

(f nor freedom from the regulation and restraint of the law. even in god, freedom is not unbridled almightiness unregulated by other attributes. god can do all that he wills to do, but there are some things he cannot will if they are not reflective of his nature. freedom in god is rational freedom.

(g nor the possibility of willing contrary what is already being willed. freedom is the present actual willingness and not the power to will something else in addition to the present actual willingness. freedom is found in the actual act of doing something, not that he could do otherwise.

(h nor indifference, or freedom from a bias or inclination. a bias or inclination of the will is the central and dominant self-determination of the will...the stronger the bias the more intense is the self-determination and hence the the intenser the freedom. the more the will is self-determined and inclined, the farther off it is from indifference; and hence indifference is not the characteristic of freedom.

(i nor the mere liberty of performing an outward act. the mere circumstances of a man are no part of his spontaneous self-determination. the subjective energy of the human will is all that a man can call his own and be responsible for.

defining positively, finite freedom is

(a self-determination in the sense of moral spontaneity; not self-determination and power to the contrary, but self-determination alone, pure and simple. the first is true, the second is spurious and is actually indeterminism.

(b freedom from compulsion, either internal or external.

(c freedom from physical necessity or the operation of the law of cause and effect. (the law of cause and effect operating in matter has no operation in the human will ...the will has the facility of self-motion.)

the material above was in the most part ripped from the "dogmatic theology" of wgt shedd. circa 1894, and is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the full discussion which ran to hundreds of pages filled to the brim with scholasticteria. (a handy word i just coined)

note: as usual...if it doesn't resonate, simply can it.

best bill g aka bbb

[onething]

kundalini,

not sure why you would think the ra material violates their free will when they set themselves up to receive the communication and asked each and every question.

if someone asks you what time it is, are you violating their free will by giving them the answer?

violating someone's free will involves the use of force, threat, intimidation or deception.

it could also involve giving them information they clearly don't want, to which most people have defense mechanisms, i.e., "don't confuse me with the facts!"

[billybobbutterball]

kundalini,

not sure why you would think the ra material violates their free will when they set themselves up to receive the communication and asked each and every question.

if someone asks you what time it is, are you violating their free will by giving them the answer?

violating someone's free will involves the use of force, threat, intimidation or deception.

it could also involve giving them information they clearly don't want, to which most people have defense mechanisms, i.e., "don't confuse me with the facts!"

anna makes some good points, but there are different facets in looking at this since there are times when requests for particular information is withheld under the blanket comment that answering would violate the law of confusion...(also known as the free will clause.)
so, even tho the individual innocently wants certain information getting it would sometimes be more consequential that merely receiving the correct time (tho the ra confess that they don't much know the little hand from the big one)

an entanglement is that our other-worldly contacts also seem to pinch-hit as our guardian nurturers; so they won't give the baby a bottle of vat 69
(or the ferrari keys to the middle-school kid) til he/she/it comes of age. also giving certain information -- that besides warping the unprepared human psyche -- would entail a karmic responsibility onto the messenger -- that is exactly what happened when the ra came onto the ancient egyptian scene and tried to help out face to face ---only to see their gifts turned into figurative weapons against the populace. the end result is that the ra are still trying to unravel the collateral damage.

we see some interesting interplays demonstrated in the work of age regressionists, such as michael newton and dolores cannon (who has been most recently interviewed on p.c.) from their work comes hundreds of examples where a subjects super/subconscious mind block memories in order to protect the equilibrium of their somewhat less advanced self in this present learning incarnation. as the sessions continue there comes a time when much of the formally withheld information is finally considered able 'food' to be digested without ill effect and is passed on to the fledgling psyche.

in d.c.s extended contact with nostradamus he mentioned that correct timing was important in what could be released when. an interesting side-note was that nostradamus mentioned in his originals work that he was much helped in creating the quatrains by contact with spirits in the future. it dawned on dolores that she and her subjects were indeed those very "spirits" he wrote about some 500 years ago!:cool:

i hope my contribution above doesn't merely add more mud to the already muddy water.

best.:)..bbb

[Natho]

this is info that ive gathered from 'nissam haramein. (this thread creator was moved here in regards to relation)
free will & scaling = coherance

nassim was posed a question during his video 'crossing the event horizon' that caught my attention in relation to the 'free will' factor of life.

the question was simple, 'how does free will factor into exsistance?'.
most of us, if not all, have read loo and were given the notion that free will is paramount within the universe and is something i am sure we all agree on and hold dear.

what was interesting about his reply is that he nassim formed a 'scale' method to free will which defines it by boundaries and coherance, so to speak. allow me to explain;

-first, picture the atom. within the spherical bounds of the atom lay free will.
-now, picture the earth. within its bounds also lay free will of the inhabitants.
-human technology can alter molecular structure to form new complex objects. thus, to a degree, altering the free will of the atom.
-now add relativity to the equasion. humans altered the free will of the atom, but not so much as to cause dissfunctionality within the atom. not until you split the atom, then what happens? boom, we made it irrelevant to its nature.

what im getting at is that free will, within its bounds, is relative only to its scale within the universe/s.

an excellent example would be from loo. we were given free will by the logos, but we are such a small part of the logos, agreed? our free will is defined by our scale also, thus the logos was able to infringe, slightly, by adding the 'veil' to our minds.

-picture our galaxy and its bounds + the free will that lay within. it is determined/affected by the free will of the universe but it must remain coherant for relativity to exsist on the 'fractal' scale of things. (fractal is easier to define scale). to consider the earth as an atom of the universe, one can analogise that the free will of the universe is the leading 'heirachy', where the atom would be the lower form. an important factor to add, i believe, is that when we become more advanced, our bounds slowly increase, but know that the universe has already made these allowances, thus we never infringe upon the free will of the heirachy because we can never reach its boundaries as they are 'infinite'.

so, coherance is the key and a major factor of free will when applied to the scale of all things. thus, one can see how things may not be understood (or seem unfair) without the knowledge of this theory. im not saying it is 'fact', but man, it kinda makes alot of sence and you can relate it to many things.:eek:

[billybobbutterball]

hi natho

interesting post and it makes sense. free will is not unbridled across the board. and some things are outside a human's proper field of responsibility.

a qualification may be in order in that i've been led to understand that free will is not widely found across the greater cosmos...it seems that the earth -- along with some selected areas -- is a special case in that it is an experiment/variation, whatsoever. a few post back on this thread there there was an attempt to define free will by using both positive and negative definitions. interestingly enough there are only three positive example set against nearly a dozen negative....which implies that the concept of free will has more negative than positive qualities.:confused:

hmmm... should rewrite the above as i can't even understand it myself...but i'm tired and dragging....i think that this post finally puts me at the 400 mark.....of course mere quantity doesn't reflect quality so i won't celebrate.:o

best. bill g aka bbbb...oh!... the usual desclaimers, etc.

[Shatwanee]

I am new here but learning quickly.
So the 4D world once solid and livable, we are capable of creating what we want there from Free Will or even to re-create what we have here in 3D?

I do not mean to sound ignorant but still trying to understand this part...

A'ho,
Sha Twa' Nee'

[billybobbutterball]

I am new here but learning quickly.
So the 4D world once solid and livable, we are capable of creating what we want there from Free Will or even to re-create what we have here in 3D?

I do not mean to sound ignorant but still trying to understand this part...

A'ho,
Sha Twa' Nee'

Hi, SHA! WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!

About your ponderings

I think you are trying to wag the dog by its tail.

It can be argued that the concept of "Free Will" is misleading via the use of the overly liberal term, "Free", and that the popular term of "Free Will" can be better understood as being that of "Self- Determination."

To whit: the so-called freedom of the will is more accurately described as being "the abiding inclination (nature?) of the permanent spiritual self."

So...It turns out that the power of choice is a mere effect rather than that of the cause itself.

It is a puzzling problem of the ages...and literally countless thousands have been slaughtered over the argument because of differing theological implications and connotations.

As for the 4th dimension? I'll have to wait 'til I get there. best BBB

[EcyaC]

Hi, SHA! WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!...
It can be argued that the concept of "Free Will" is misleading via the use of the overly liberal term, "Free", and that the popular term of "Free Will" can be better understood as being that of "Self- Determination." To whit: the so-called freedom of the will is more accurately described as being "the abiding inclination (nature?) of the permanent spiritual self." So...It turns out that the power of choice is a mere effect rather than that of the cause itself...

HEY BG,
0=)! <3!
One of my favorite lines about freewill is the one that says it doesn't matter whether or not we have it -- all that matters is that we can perceive we do.
This is my favorite Ra line about it:
The seeming contradictions of determinism and freewill melt away when it is accepted that there is such a thing as true simultaneity.

[Detlef]

I am new here but learning quickly.
So the 4D world once solid and livable, we are capable of creating what we want there from Free Will or even to re-create what we have here in 3D?

I do not mean to sound ignorant but still trying to understand this part...

A'ho,
Sha Twa' Nee'

In my understanding and from what I am given, 4D, this is the level earth is moving into and most will stay on this level, is not that much different in physicality then 3D. For me the greatest difference will be, no more free will. After all, we have chosen to stay with earth, on the path toward light, or STO. And this is what free will is all about, the ability to choose between STS, and StO. Once we have chosen, there is no need for free will any longer. We have choices, yes, yet only within the parameter of STO.
What are the parameters of STO? Don't worry, if you step outside of this parameters you will feel it.

Rah nam

[Chris Hamilton]

From Detlef:
For me the greatest difference will be, no more free will. After all, we have chosen to stay with earth, on the path toward light, or STO. And this is what free will is all about, the ability to choose between STS, and StO.

I had to interject here since your statement may confuse Shatwanee. Free will is a contruct of our mind. As long as we perceive positive and negative, there will be free will. This illusion occurs through 6th density, at which point we have the wisdom to understand this illusory concept and positive and negative assimilate (note that these two extremes remain within the whole, integrated and symbiotic). Hope that helped, Chris

[DFS]

From the LOO web site:
13.5
I am Ra. The first known thing in the creation is infinity. The infinity is creation.
13.6
I am Ra. Infinity became aware. This was the next step.
13.7
I am Ra. Awareness led to the focus of infinity into infinite energy. You have called this by various vibrational sound complexes, the most common to your ears being “Logos” or “Love.” The Creator is the focusing of infinity as an aware or conscious principle called by us as closely as we can create understanding/learning in your language, intelligent infinity.
13.12
I am Ra. The intelligent infinity discerned a concept. This concept was discerned to be freedom of will of awareness. This concept was finity. This was the first and primal paradox or distortion of the Law of One. Thus the one intelligent infinity invested itself in an exploration of many-ness. Due to the infinite possibilities of intelligent infinity there is no ending to many-ness. The exploration, thus, is free to continue
infinitely in an eternal present.
1.0
Ra:
The Confederation of Planets in the Service of the Infinite Creator has only one important statement. That statement, my friends, as you know, is “All things, all of life, all of the creation is part of one original thought.” ...
You are part of a thought. You are dancing in a ballroom in which there is no material. You are dancing thoughts. You move your body, your mind, and your spirit in somewhat eccentric patterns for you have not completely grasped the concept that you are part of the original thought.
27.8
I understand that the first distortion of intelligent infinity is the distortion of what we call free will. Can you give me a definition of this distortion?
I am Ra. In this distortion of the Law of One it is recognized that the Creator will know Itself.
27.9
Then am I correct in assuming that the Creator then grants for this knowing the concept of total freedom of choice in the ways of knowing? Am I correct?
I am Ra. This is quite correct.

The above quotations indicate that "freedom of will of awareness" began with the original thought, that original "I am that I am," that original choice of separation from unity which in turn, initiated finity and manyness. As expressions of that manyness, each of us link back to that original thought through our solar logos, which in turn links to the galactic logos, which links to the logos of our particular universe, which links to intelligent infinity and the original thought. Each logos in this chain of manyness expressed freedom of will of awareness by selecting limits or laws that focused/limited the available possibility/probabilities. In essence, each logos freely chose limits narrowing the options available to its creations, including its co-creators.

Within the limits chosen by our solar logos, those of us participating in this 3D illusion remain free to choose what and how we may co-create.

<continued on next post>

DFS

[DFS]

I offer for your consideration a metaphor/analogy for simultaneity. Imagine an omnibus of stories containing everything written by an individual author. Think of this omnibus as analogous to a mind/body/spirit complex totality.

Considered as a whole, everything in this omnibus exists simultaneously, and if this omnibus is housed in a library containing a vast manyness of similar volumes, then everything in that library also exist simultaneously.

An author may choose to add to his/her omnibus or to simply select a single story or any part of that story to read and/or reread. It is simply a matter of selecting a focus of awareness, and in choosing such a focus, one exercises "freedom of will of awareness."

Awareness may be viewed as a focused point of consciousness, a point of beingness which begins with the original thought and spirals downward through each logos. The veiling, one of the limits chosen by our solar logos, inclines us to view self as a separate, isolated material being existing in a challenging, often hostile environment.

Thus, a focused point of awareness expressing as a 3D persona encounters the catalyst of abuse, and believing self separate and isolated, thinks of those catalysts as being imposed rather than freely chosen. The persona declares, "No way would I have chosen to endure all this abuse," and from the persona's limited viewpoint,, this feels absolutely true.

Yet, each 3D persona is free to shift its own focus and freely choose how it views this 3D space/time illusion. More importantly, one is free to choose how one views self within this illusion.

37.6
I am Ra...
"In this way you may see your self, your Higher Self or Oversoul, and your mind/body/spirit complex totality as three points in a circle. The only distinction is that of your time/space continuum. All are the same being."

One may view self as a victim of circumstances, as a material, mortal being struggling to manipulate and control one's environment. Alternatively, one may view self as an extended being, a complex focus of consciousness freely engaging 3D catalysts as a means of learn/teaching.

Although one tends to think of viewpoint as fixed, in actuality, it is fluid, complex, often contradictory and constantly evolving. An appropriate metaphor might be a continuum.

At one extreme is total separation/isolation, which believing anything other than self to be separate and external of self, opts to seek total control of self and all non-self. At the other extreme is unity/oneness, which believing self to be entangled and one with all that is, opts to seek that unity through forgiveness and acceptance. Thus, we have the extremes of STS or STO.

Both extremes offer learn/teaching, differing only in how one chooses to engage that learn/teaching. It may be viewed as external/objective, imposed and thus, to be resisted, manipulated and controlled. Or, it may be viewed as internal/subjective, freely chosen and thus, to be released/forgiven, embraced and accepted. Thereby, every choice moves one toward the extreme of STS or STO.

DFS

[zecharia]

regarding free will, why do you hand over your own free will to find things out to a channeler? Ask, you will be given answers. But stay away from channeling. It is notoriously deceptive. A channeler has no idea who is at the other end of the line. These entities has been shown to be anything else than they purport to be.
So, stay centered. Ask and seek for yourself. You will find. You have that ability. It is granted you by design. But don't put your trust in a channeling.... There are many entities who wish nothing more than to tap your energy, which is what happens when you trust a channeling.
I would never do that.

[Detlef]

I am not sure how I give away my free will by reading a channel or listening to a channel. It is always up to the listener or reader to discern. It is very much like reading any other non fictional book or article.
How can you tell, the channeler does not know who is on the other end? Yes, deception happens, but they are not the norm. And if you use your own higher self or divine self, it will tell you to what degree a material is accurate or inaccurate. Is it valid for you or not.
The level of integrity of the channeler and/or the source of the material.
It's all part of the learning.

Regards



regarding free will, why do you hand over your own free will to find things out to a channeler? Ask, you will be given answers. But stay away from channeling. It is notoriously deceptive. A channeler has no idea who is at the other end of the line. These entities has been shown to be anything else than they purport to be.
So, stay centered. Ask and seek for yourself. You will find. You have that ability. It is granted you by design. But don't put your trust in a channeling.... There are many entities who wish nothing more than to tap your energy, which is what happens when you trust a channeling.
I would never do that.

[Frankensign]

we see some interesting interplays demonstrated in the work of age regressionists, such as michael newton and dolores cannon

If you were looking for similarities between Michael Newton's material and the Law of One, I'll forward you to this report which gives over 20 similarities between the two. Many of these correlations are are really quite amazing.

Here's the link:

http://divinecosmos.info/law_of_one_michael_newton_similarities.html

[MarkM]

This is pretty amazing, Frankish! I've this year read 'Journey of Souls' and 'Destiny of Souls' and the fourth one, Lives Between Lives or something, and see this as taken with the LoO as being very complementary. Just after and finishing Monday past, I've also re-read the Source Field book by David. I'm at a loss about what to read next, I've been googling the Koricancha vids by Brien Foerster on Youtube.

I find after decades of research that the Source Field book by Wilcock is the best by far synthesis of disparate data, masterfully arranged to in effect symphonize the range of findings as to strongly suggest proof of life (and all variations of awareness) itself being the formative principle of all of what is known and experienced...

... rather than life having chanced out of a pre-existing universe.

Then there's the Aticama human, and that grabs me even as the Stanton guys suggest and suppress their surprise and ideas. It reminds me of that which came down to me from my mother of old family tales of little folk - let's face it, as the veil starts to shimmer, we are able to see more - even collectively, and the more we may be able to re-connect with our old fairy tale-ed and childlike ideas of a simpler and joyous world.

[billybobbutterball]

Dear Mark

Don't know what else to read? Hypnotist Dolores Cannon has some 15 books. Her Magnum Opus "The Convoluted Universe" so far extends to Four volumes. Real time Conversations with Nostradamus is in three or four. A 60 minute interview is available on Project Camelot.

An interesting fact is that in retrospect 1931 was a vintage year...it is the birthdate for Newton, Cannon and Billybobbutterball. Newton is retired but Dolores keeps on keeping on. BBB simply keeps on reading and re-reading. (third time for Convoluted )

Newton and Cannon examine the same priceless coin, but from different sides.. Both are enshrined in the Divine Cosmos reading list...or should be..

Good Reading! best, BBB