Alien Anatomy, Species, & Genetics (part 1)

[LightEye]

dear friends,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywqe7btrtui

be well, be love.

david

this video got cut short, part 2 i will finish when i have time... here is the script i have written beyond the point it cuts off for those of you who can't wait:
(how to freeze and revive by stefan anitei, science editor)

frogs are amphibians which are also cold blooded. however certain types of frogs can be frozen in ice and then thawed out and revitalized due to an antifreeze component in their blood which prevents or alters crystallization of water molecules so they dont puncture cell walls destroying the cells. while cryobiological genetics engineering is still an emerging field of science, we have much more scientific reasons to believe in the so called greys than we do the reptilian or insectoid aliens. the anti-ufology propaganda film men in black used insect aliens, so did starship troopers (anti alien+pro war) but that could just be a coincidence...

this is a subject we know so little about... (virtually nothing) putting this video together took a long time and a lot of discussion and i still had to cut a lot of material and discussion. this research is by no means complete!

dinosaurs ruled the earth for a period of 300 million years and there is no evidence to suggest that any intelligent species of dinosaur evolved at all during that time period when 65 million years ago they were all wiped out by a massive meteor leaving us humans (1/5 of that time) to evolve from rodents. monkey like creatures date back to 35-45 million years ago. the earliest known hominid dates between 6 and 7 million years old. and we only have a few thousand years of recorded human history, the earliest humans date back 10-14,000 years ago which in retrospect is like the blink of an eye!

so if it only took us a couple thousand years to figure how to produce computers and airplanes and technology to send astronauts into space, then what does that say about 300 million years of dinosaur evolution obviously their brains were not suited for technology. so what makes a monkey brain more suited for complex thought and memory? why would something like this evolve in apes but not dinosaurs?

well we think the reason we have such complex knowledge trees has to do with the fact that our ancestors lived in trees. remembering complex networks of tree branches would have been crucial for survival, no such evolutionary mechanism existed for dinosaurs that would insure the natural selection of the most intelligent members of the gene pool.

from all these different perspectives i find the whole shape-shifting reptilian humanoid thing highly unlikely (although not impossible)
i just think its more likely that business interests and secret societies like the knights templar, the jesuits, skull and bones, and the illuminatti would have enough desire for world domination on their own without the help of some external or extraterrestrial force and in a movement that is supposed to be about opening minds and creating a paradigm shift in human consciousness, telling people that shapeshifting reptilian humanoids are trying to take over the world doesnt exactly make them want to listen to whatever else you might have to say im just throwing it out there, do what ever you want with it!

if you liked this video and enjoy learning and talking about these kinds of subjects, dont forget to rate 5 stars and subscribe to my channel! peace and truth my friends.

[conundrum]

thanks for the tin foil tip i wont even bother now no where to run no where to hide not that they will find much :rolleyes:

i just know life ain't ever going to be the same again which is possibly a good thing or is it ?
life looks more ridiculous by the minute hopefully people can start having fun.

[autumray]

hello lighteye,
thanks for the information-very interesting-the video is beautiful. i find it amazing that dinosaurs could rule the earth for millions of years while 'intelligent' humans seem to be destroying it in a very short time-a blink of an eye! i long for the 'graduation'.
love and light to you.
donna

[C-JEAN]

hi dave and all.

leaving us humans (1/5 of that time) to evolve from rodents. monkey like creatures date back to 35-45 million years ago. the earliest known hominid dates between 6 and 7 million years old. and we only have a few thousand years of recorded human history, the earliest humans date back 10-14,000 years ago which in retrospect is like the blink of an eye!

as we know it from sources of infos, and dave's works/books/videos, "modern men"
could come from atlantis, mu, and/or from what ramtha or ra said in channeling
sessions, as in the law of one.

here is a confirmation about the possibility that we had a long time to evolve:
michael_cremo__richard_thompson___the_hidden_histo ry_of_the_human_race__1998_.pdf
you can download and read that:

http://www.conspiracyresearch.org/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=297

foreword
by graham hancock (author of fingerprints of the gods)
it is my great pleasure and honor to introduce this abridged edition of forbidden
archeology.
. . .etc. . .

are we that old ????
nail in devonian sandstone, scotland
in 1844, sir david brewster reported that a nail had been discovered firmly
embedded in a block of sandstone from the kingoodie (mylnfield) quarry in scotland.
this sandstone is of "lower old red sandstone age"
(devonian, between 360 and 408 million years old).

gold thread in carboniferous stone, england
a gold thread was discovered embedded in the stone at a depth of eight feet.
this stone is of early carboniferous age (between 320 and 360 million years old).

gold chain in carboniferous coal from morrisonville, illinois
the illinois state geological survey has said the coal in which the gold chain was
found is 260-320 million years old. this raises the possibility that culturally advanced
human beings were present in north america during that time.

metallic vase from precambrian rock at dorchester, massachusetts
. . .etc. . .

and tell us what you think.

blue skies.

[Anders Lindman]

david wilcock has said that many of the ets look like humans. i think that is correct. then there are stories about aliens like the greys. in the past i didn't really believe in stories about greys, but recently i have changed my mind, because the greys could be droids created by extremely advanced technology, which means that they could do things that humans would not find comfortable, like:

* living thousands of years underground.
* living in inhospitable places including on moons without natural biological life environments.
* fly around in small uncomfortable ufos.
* do a relentless job of being 'watchers' of humanity and other younger civilizations.
* etc, etc.

we have to understand that the real ets who look like humans only need to do what they want to do. they don't have to go to work, to do labor, or be of service unless they want to. they don't themselves need to have things like governments, police, construction workers, service personal, and so on. they can let super-advanced technology such as droids and artificial technology take care of all that.

[11wanderer11]

notice how the author of the video is a little judgemental towards not believing in reptilians but at the same time admits he doesn't have much to base that theory on. it angers him that people would mention it at all because it's associated him with being crazy. it's the most uncomfortable and hard to accept facet of the conspiracy and most people would rather just not think about it.
first off, i think david icke is truthful and doesn't make up anything about his research findings. why would he? he's only received a lifetime of mockery and ill judgment upon himself for it. personally i haven't read any icke books that explain his evidence (it's on my to-do list)on reptilians but i bet there's a mountain of it. if it's disinfo, it originated with somebody else.
ok then, maybe they're from one of the other infinite parallel universes with different rules or molds? yeah reptilians didn't evolve to be intelligent on our planet. i completely agree with d.wilcock that there are unimaginable forces and entities in higher realms that direct everything in the physical world, so to me that says maybe they just made sure that reptilians couldn't evolve like that on earth and primates got special treatment/protection. divine fate if you will. from what i've researched, i've seen quite a few reptilian connections pop up from time to time. aren't the annunaki described in the sumerian tablets and artwork depicted as reptilian? they were able to live here when the earth was hospitable for them at that time. the first adam was reptilian and then 'the fall' was a change in the genetics to the primate form supposedly. there is an interesting mention of these scaley badges on certain people's bodies in the old testament books that prove their lineage to the race, and they're the ones contacted and trusted by the annunaki (noah/moses/abraham etc). t
here are the stories of humanity's battles with dragons over and over. the fact that japan claims that the first emperor was a dragon. quetzalcoatl is the feathered serpent god of aztec culture said to possibly return in 2012. there are many references in ancient cultures to reptilian beings/serpent beings/dragons so to me it's not something that can easily just be brushed off. there is also several 'eye-witness testimonies' from people who've supposedly seen them and there is several varieties documented that have different heights and features, including that some even have wings. i understand why david w. and other people think it just distracts from more important things to focus on and i agree it shouldn't be something you ever mention to a 'newbie' because it would scare them off or they wouldn't take you seriously. anyway i remember reading somewhere the 'illuminati' bloodlines around the world probably only have a small percentage of reptilian dna codes or whatever now. there's probably no longer any full-blood reptilians still alive unless they live for untold thousands of years and they're underground or something. who knows?

[Alexander]

allowing suspicion about the existence of reptilians to continue its logical course, i had an interesting dream once.

it's one of those dreams you know are profound because they stick with you and don't go away.

i saw a species of reptilian humanoids that were essentially two legged upright crocodiles.

in this dream i had a "sister" who was in the same house as i was(a large very nice home), and she was very much on top of things, extremely competent in her duties. she was going to release information to the public that would without a doubt prove the existence of these crocodile reptilians to the people.

the reptilians knew what she was going to do and they were greatly alarmed, because once my sister released this information the crocodile people were finished and going to be defeated. it was certain.

in essence the crocodile reptilians were not good guys in my dream and they had the ability to blend in or hide from people while doing their evil deeds on earth.

[Alexander]

speaking of the so called "greys" i see a problem with their construction as typically described.

looking at people here on earth, we all have minds, hearts, faces, and eyes, with which we have the ability express emotion. the eyes are called the gateway to the soul for a reason. you can learn much by looking into them.

the grey shape is out of proportion. their heads are huge, their eyes too big, their bodies too small, and their faces emotionless. the outward form tends to show what they value, what they appreciate most, what they really are inside.

it is not love that they value, not emotion, not expression(hence the black lenses over their eyes).

they likely do not care much for their fellow living beings. it is their physical form and its function which matters to them. intelligence, ability, prowess...

that being said, perhaps some of the species with the "grey" shape have an intricate way of expressing emotion via telepathy. i don't know. not all of them are the same as clifford stone and others describe many varieties of the grey et shape. not all of them are bad...

i could see how their existence ties in with what david theorized, about greys being our future descendants from a possibly negative future where their reality, their existence is falling apart, and they're looking back to their past, us.

[Anders Lindman]

speaking of the so called "greys" i see a problem with their construction as typically described.

looking at people here on earth, we all have minds, hearts, faces, and eyes, with which we have the ability express emotion. the eyes are called the gateway to the soul for a reason. you can learn much by looking into them.

the grey shape is out of proportion. their heads are huge, their eyes too big, their bodies too small, and their faces emotionless. the outward form tends to show what they value, what they appreciate most, what they really are inside.

it is not love that they value, not emotion, not expression(hence the black lenses over their eyes).

they likely do not care much for their fellow living beings. it is their physical form and its function which matters to them. intelligence, ability, prowess...

that being said, perhaps some of the species with the "grey" shape have an intricate way of expressing emotion via telepathy. i don't know. not all of them are the same as clifford stone and others describe many varieties of the grey et shape. not all of them are bad...

i could see how their existence ties in with what david theorized, about greys being our future descendants from a possibly negative future where their reality, their existence is falling apart, and they're looking back to their past, us.

that's why i previously thought that the greys were just some result of people watching too many ufo b-movies. but then it hit me that the greys could be droids, biotech machines. and they could even look like that, if their eyes are goggles. and they have no genitals and they look less organic than humans. that would be typical for a droid.

one guess is that the greys are workers watching over humanity and are spoon-feeding us with technology and knowledge when we are ready for it, such as the roswell crash which could have been a deliberate 'crash' to give us some new technologies to reverse engineer. philip corso talked about how things like semiconductors, the laser and teflon were a result of such reverse engineering.

a further guess is that the greys are a part of a quarantine until we have become peaceful enough to be allowed into space. i don't think our planet is special, no more than i believe i am a special person. unique, granted, but similar to other planets with civilizations. it's more likely that all planets with young civilizations have this kind of quarantine.

to believe earth is special is similar to the hybris people had in the past when they believed the earth was the center of the universe.

[Alexander]

that's why i previously thought that the greys were just some result of people watching too many ufo b-movies. but then it hit me that the greys could be droids, biotech machines. and they could even look like that, if their eyes are goggles. and they have no genitals and they look less organic than humans. that would be typical for a droid.

yes, you are onto something anders. i too have heard reports that the greys(at least the bad ones) are biological robots. soulless.

there is interesting information online regarding them, and while some of it may be disinformation, a lot of it reads true.

there is another source i read(i wish i remembered where) that described the race of greys and why they are dying. the source said they are not only dying, falling apart, but they are suffering in pain.

they don't understand why, and they are trying to use their technology to fix themselves.

the pain comes from the denial of their souls, of their spiritual aspects.

they must be reaching the limits of what they can do with technology. until they learn to return and stop denying themselves and the universe, they will not be saved.

[Anders Lindman]

they must be reaching the limits of what they can do with technology. until they learn to return and stop denying themselves and the universe, they will not be saved.

ok, but my guess is that the greys are constructed using post-singularity technology, which means almost infinitely advanced technology. so i don't think they are in any kind of trouble. i believe they are 'merely' watching over us, and have been spoon-feeding us with technology and knowledge, at times in history when humanity has been ready for it.

i believe the greys will be finished with their task when the quarantine is removed from our planet and civilization. i do believe they have things like emotions and extremely advanced mental capacity, but that they are droids serving a very exact purpose, and ultimately a good purpose, although they are probably not to be messed with. :eek::d

[11wanderer11]

as steven greer says, the 'black ops' community has the technology to not only duplicate the alien ships, but they've been able to duplicate/clone their bodies and program them ('programmed life forms') to do their dark bidding in an effort to fool much of the public into believing in negative ets in the first place. perhaps it's true that the negative accounts we hear of tormentive abductions by greys and reptilians are really just an elaborate trick, like the descriptions of souless droid-like behavior help to suggest. remember that any type of creature is possible to create using advanced genetic technologies as in the abominations of atlantian experimentation.

[Anders Lindman]

as steven greer says, the 'black ops' community has the technology to not only duplicate the alien ships, but they've been able to duplicate/clone their bodies and program them ('programmed life forms') to do their dark bidding in an effort to fool much of the public into believing in negative ets in the first place. perhaps it's true that the negative accounts we hear of tormentive abductions by greys and reptilians are really just an elaborate trick, like the descriptions of souless droid-like behavior help to suggest. remember that any type of creature is possible to create using advanced genetic technologies as in the abominations of atlantian experimentation.

it sounds reasonable, that alien abductions, if they are real are done by black-op projects rather than real ets. there are probably many extraterrestrial civilizations that would do things like abduct people, but all these are young civilizations i believe, like our civilization at the moment with a lot of wars and other atrocities going on.

an advanced civilization i guess will be inherently peaceful, or they would have blown themselves to pieces with super-advanced technology. plus, the idea of quarantines for younger civilizations seems very plausible to me, which means that civilizations using violence are not allowed to do interstellar travel.

only when a civilization has matured into a state of peaceful living can it be allowed post-singularity technologies and interstellar space travel. our civilization has not yet reached that level of maturity. imagine humanity as a single body. it would be foolish if in my own body my left arm would be at war with my right arm. yet that is exactly what we have in the 'body' of humanity today.

[11wanderer11]

[quote=anders lindman;51641]it sounds reasonable, that alien abductions, if they are real are done by black-op projects rather than real ets. there are probably many extraterrestrial civilizations that would do things like abduct people, but all these are young civilizations i believe, like our civilization at the moment with a lot of wars and other atrocities going on.\quote]
that's what i'm saying yes, (although i'm still left wondering about records of ancient contact) but i want to reiterate it's the negative abductions that these black-ops groups are responsible for. there are still many positive or neutral abductions that are reported or brought to light through regressive hypnosis. things like the ets just sharing knowledge or downloading knowledge, performing physical checkups or psychic surgery, etc. supposedly even things like implanted devices aren't neccesarrily negative because they might be there to help correct imbalances in the person's physical body or energy body. often times people are intentionally left without conscious memories of these experiences because the positive entities understand how it would interfere with their lives if they remembered. on the other hand the negative and torturous accounts are intentionally left remembered(unless the person's brain chooses to block it out on their own anyway) to induce fear & hatred of ets.
anyway, steering back to genetics...the video that started the thread says that, a) there is no evidence dinosaurs ever evolved to be intelligent & b) if they didn't evolve to be intelligent in 300 million years, they weren't ever going to. well i've got a big problem with both of those. first, when we're talking about things that happened hundreds of millions of years ago, isn't it a little common sense to assume that any 'evidence' from then of intelligent life has long been eroded or lost to earth's changes? maybe at the bottom of the sea or in the crust. second, if there was evidence, do you actually think the shadowy government would allow the people to have access to it? i'm thinking here of all the giant skeletons with 6 & 7 finger hands & even horned skulls that have been found & then mysteriously vanished. and third, even if they truly didn't evolve to intelligence in 300 million years...so what? how do we know how long it takes? on other planets that haven't had cataclysms maybe they did evolve intelligent reptilians, felines, birds, amphibians, insects or whatever. they say humans seem to have evolved rather quickly...well they also say that aliens came and genetically engineered our race so what the #$@% do we really know about how long it takes for a primate to naturally evolve? there are many reports of aliens of all kinds. i just tend to think anything is possible. as david has said, life is everywhere. it just depends on the conditions as to what kind of life arises there. there are infinite conditions in an infinite universe/s.

[Anders Lindman]

there are still many positive or neutral abductions that are reported or brought to light through regressive hypnosis. things like the ets just sharing knowledge or downloading knowledge, performing physical checkups or psychic surgery, etc. supposedly even things like implanted devices aren't neccesarrily negative because they might be there to help correct imbalances in the person's physical body or energy body.

i do believe real ets have been visiting earth and perhaps still do today. but my guess is that advanced extraterrestrial civilizations don't violate people's integrity or sovereignty. abduction is a serious breach of personal integrity. if abductions are real, it smacks more of something humans would do to each other (such as a shadow government) rather than something performed by advanced ets. even when it comes to positive abductions, it's still a serious violation of personal integrity.

think of our planet as a big planetary egg, and humanity is the undeveloped chick growing inside the egg. just as a hen wouldn't crack the egg herself, so do the advanced extraterrestrial civilizations not interfere directly with human development.

this would explain why no ets have come to save humanity. advanced et technology could remove all poverty, energy and pollution problems etc within seconds. yet that hasn't happened. the reason is i believe that our civilization must evolve and develop by itself, and has only been given help in very special ways, such as 'crashed' ufos that can be used for reverse engineering; the so-called crashes have been done on purpose by the greys who act as the 'eggshell' for our civilization.

undeveloped extraterrestrial civilizations, who would do things like abduct people, are themselves confined to their planetary eggs, just as humanity, in a state of quarantine preventing the undeveloped civilizations from prematurely going out into space and interfere with other civilizations.

the egg and chick metaphor is hardly an exact comparison, but i believe it works something like that throughout the universe. i don't rule out the possibility that some people have contact with real ets. that would be possible in cases where there is a mutual understanding between the ets and humans, rather than some abductions or telepathic messages happening to humans out of the blue.

[11wanderer11]

the egg and chick metaphor is hardly an exact comparison, but i believe it works something like that throughout the universe. i don't rule out the possibility that some people have contact with real ets. that would be possible in cases where there is a mutual understanding between the ets and humans, rather than some abductions or telepathic messages happening to humans out of the blue.

yes i agree with your basic thesis. from what i've read, that's exactly the case with the 'positive abductions'. that the ets made previous agreements with these people to be allowed to do whatever before they just take people. before they were even born sometimes. other times it's subconsciously. sometimes the aliens are just gathering information. sometimes it's dna upgrading or sometimes it's like school for the person.

[Anders Lindman]

yes i agree with your basic thesis. from what i've read, that's exactly the case with the 'positive abductions'. that the ets made previous agreements with these people to be allowed to do whatever before they just take people. before they were even born sometimes. other times it's subconsciously. sometimes the aliens are just gathering information. sometimes it's dna upgrading or sometimes it's like school for the person.

could be, but i'm thinking that if i myself was an advanced et i would not want to mess with things like abductions. maybe the greys are droids doing that kind of work for the ets. my doubts are that the whole abduction business sounds like something humans would do. i doubt that the advanced ets really need to do anything at all unless they want to. it's only undeveloped civilizations who need to deal with problems i think.

some may ask if it would not be cruel of advanced ets to not want to help us. my answer to that is that i believe our planet and civilization are in a state of quarantine, and that we must develop and evolve on our own, just as the egg example where the hen doesn't break the eggshell and has to wait for the chick to mature by itself. and even if ets are helping some people, why are they not helping others? it would be unfair is some people had special contracts with the ets while others don't.

[11wanderer11]

could be, but i'm thinking that if i myself was an advanced et i would not want to mess with things like abductions. maybe the greys are droids doing that kind of work for the ets. my doubts are that the whole abduction business sounds like something humans would do. i doubt that the advanced ets really need to do anything at all unless they want to. it's only undeveloped civilizations who need to deal with problems i think.

some may ask if it would not be cruel of advanced ets to not want to help us. my answer to that is that i believe our planet and civilization are in a state of quarantine, and that we must develop and evolve on our own, just as the egg example where the hen doesn't break the eggshell and has to wait for the chick to mature by itself. and even if ets are helping some people, why are they not helping others? it would be unfair is some people had special contracts with the ets while others don't.

something humans would do? aren't ets humans or do you mean earthlings? how advanced are you picturing these civilizations to be? there are many levels of advancement and nobody's judging. fairness is relative, and not something that can be determined with a limited perspective. a lot of things don't seem to be fair in this world but when looked at from other angles they start to make more sense. so maybe everybody doesn't get special attention from ets.

it boils down to the fact that it's a choice. you could have the same attention if you asked for it. i'm sure many have even been asked and declined. you ask for help and you get help. but another important thing to remember is of course this is a unique planet in a unique time with many different types of people living on it with different origins (alien, extra-dimensional, star, etc). many are perhaps just chillin with their et families in their off time. do you understand it's these people that are involved with the positive alien experiences? those that have already made their choice to be positive long ago and were sent to help earth in the first place. they're not getting some special help or shortcut to evolution because they've allready 'graduated'. they're just being assisted on their special missions.

[Anders Lindman]

something humans would do? aren't ets humans or do you mean earthlings? how advanced are you picturing these civilizations to be?

i meant humans as in our civilization here on earth. advanced civilizations have moved from being fear-based into being peaceful. otherwise their advanced technology would have blown to pieces at the first weaponized conflict.

[Alexander]

well i've got a big problem with both of those. first, when we're talking about things that happened hundreds of millions of years ago, isn't it a little common sense to assume that any 'evidence' from then of intelligent life has long been eroded or lost to earth's changes? maybe at the bottom of the sea or in the crust. second, if there was evidence, do you actually think the shadowy government would allow the people to have access to it? i'm thinking here of all the giant skeletons with 6 & 7 finger hands & even horned skulls that have been found & then mysteriously vanished. and third, even if they truly didn't evolve to intelligence in 300 million years...so what? how do we know how long it takes? on other planets that haven't had cataclysms maybe they did evolve intelligent reptilians, felines, birds, amphibians, insects or whatever. they say humans seem to have evolved rather quickly...well they also say that aliens came and genetically engineered our race so what the #$@% do we really know about how long it takes for a primate to naturally evolve? there are many reports of aliens of all kinds. i just tend to think anything is possible. as david has said, life is everywhere. it just depends on the conditions as to what kind of life arises there. there are infinite conditions in an infinite universe/s.

well said 11wanderer 11.



i meant humans as in our civilization here on earth. advanced civilizations have moved from being fear-based into being peaceful. otherwise their advanced technology would have blown to pieces at the first weaponized conflict.

i disagree. that is an assumption based on logic. according to some whistleblowers earth's experiences with et's have found many of the advanced ones to be good, bad, or indifferent to us.

the negative elite on earth are responsible for much of the harm perpetrated against its people directly or indirectly yes, but they are not the only force doing so. contact with other beings have continued long back into earth's past and just like today some of it was good, some of it was bad.


do not deny the place of "evil" or "darkness" in this universe as its exists for a reason. it doesn't need to be feared by those in the light, but by those who are not, it is needed as a force for spiritual evolution. balance comes into play.

[MarkM]

hi all,

in keeping with david wilcock's assertion that our milky way galaxy is 'hard-wired' to create the human species wherever planetary conditions so allow, this thread was allowed so as for members to discuss specific issues of extraterrestrial biology.

the mods have watched as the thread has instead delved into a general discussion of aliens and possible alien agendas including such things as the hidden and manipulative goals of the negative elites, the perceived threats to humanity from outer sources, etc.

the purpose of the forum is to allow a venue for discussion of dw's efforts to disseminate (among other things) a view of the positive potential of mankind to throw off the need for 'big brother' manifesting in the form of the negs but really representing our own oppression of our selves - our collective shadow side appearing to be an exterior and hostile enemy.

a focusing on our positive and creative potential to build a more free and equitable world through the agency of unconditional love, acceptance, forgiveness and gratitude of all conditions is key to our ending the quarantine and joining the brotherhood of the greater human family, both in this density and the next.

as such, dc forum is not formatted for open ended discussion of issues of neg intrigue and possible alien agendas, or of discussion dedicated to delineating and illustrating and worrying over the potentially fear-raising and devisive issues surrounding the alien question.

there are some great forums out there which are indeed formatted for such discussion, yet here we are dedicated primarily to discussion of our members' shared experiences of learning of and integrating the precepts of the law of one as is being illustrated and brought into a world-class view by dw - and this is the stuff which lies at the core of dc forum's purpose as well as david's mission.

as this thread has led us somewhat astray from this vision, the mods have decided to close the thread. i do hope the readers of and subscribers to this thread understand somewhat the reason behind our decision. regards and best wishes, mark