The Gospel of Thomas STO and STS

[korga@...]

okay, i have to put this on the table - from all my studies of the topic in
general, ascension is attained with
neither sto or sts. both of these imply duality which is incompatible, i know
there is talk of duality in both
fourth and fifth densities but the implications of both of these is a proper
understanding of non-dual existence.
duality may not be shed until the sixth but progression beyond the third
requires an acceptance of the non-
duality of everything.

that said let me add this, read the gospel of thomas again. some key quotes
pertaining to this issue and others
include: 6, 14, 16, 28, 59, 60, 64, 83, 85 and 88.

in my last post i was talking about understanding, this is all throughout the
got. specifically all of the times
jesus uses one of those stories to explain the kingdom of heaven and our
relationship to it, the most important
thing being conveyed is that what separates humanity from the kingdom of heaven
is proper understanding. in
these same stories you will notice that which must be understand is quite
simple, but beyond the common
comprehension of humanity.

these same stories have an interesting tie in to sufic tales. many of these
stories are actively used in sufi circles.
other sufi tales parallel the got specifically as teachings of jesus. this is
quite interesting on two levels. first it
implies that when jesus went to the east he very easily could have been studying
under sufis, his teachings after
all do have quite a sufic quality in general. the second thing is that the root
of these teachings existed in the
east prior to jesus. the sufis are often traditionally thought of as a muslim
movement, but in fact the sufi's
themselves acknowledge that they pre-date islam, mohammed is just one of the
more prominent sufis. another
paralell is between the sufic tales and the taoist texts. this is very
important because most of the sufi history
only begins post-mohammed, making it barely one thousand years old. taoist
texts on the other had are the
oldest written texts we have going back one or two thousand years b.c. and they
are all very literally studies in
ascension. the issue, well for the time being 98% of these texts are only
available in chinese.

even another paralell is in most religions there is the secretive side with only
oral traditions. at the heart of most
of these cryptic teachings and initiations is the exact same quest to ascend.
the written word unfourtunately has
ruined much of these teachings as the words without understanding are worthless.

what am i talking about?

it's not that you will have to learn what to do in order to ascend, you must
recognize that everything that you do
keeps you from ascending.

incarnations
korga

[Jeremy Weiland]

welcome back korga!

> okay, i have to put this on the table - from all my studies of the topic
in general, ascension is attained with
> neither sto or sts. both of these imply duality which is incompatible, i
know there is talk of duality in both
> fourth and fifth densities but the implications of both of these is a
proper understanding of non-dual existence.
> duality may not be shed until the sixth but progression beyond the third
requires an acceptance of the non-
> duality of everything.

cool, i can dig that. it makes sense - if you are sto, then you are
serving self by serving others, thereby choosing not to recognize the
duality of self / otherself. you see all as self, and seek to serve
self/all.
ra seems to say that gaining a polarity one way or another (sto/sts)
allows one to gain more efficient experience, and by induction i assume that
this means that ascension is a means to this end of gaining more experience,
i.e. experiencing the creator. the point is that polarity (duality) can be
a tool rather than an obstacle.
understanding comes in lots of flavors. "there is only one path, but
there are many ways to experience that path," as ra says.
>
> that said let me add this, read the gospel of thomas again. some key
quotes pertaining to this issue and others
> include: 6, 14, 16, 28, 59, 60, 64, 83, 85 and 88.
>
> in my last post i was talking about understanding, this is all throughout
the got. specifically all of the times
> jesus uses one of those stories to explain the kingdom of heaven and our
relationship to it, the most important
> thing being conveyed is that what separates humanity from the kingdom of
heaven is proper understanding. in
> these same stories you will notice that which must be understand is quite
simple, but beyond the common
> comprehension of humanity.
>
> these same stories have an interesting tie in to sufic tales. many of
these stories are actively used in sufi circles.
> other sufi tales parallel the got specifically as teachings of jesus.
this is quite interesting on two levels. first it
> implies that when jesus went to the east he very easily could have been
studying under sufis, his teachings after
> all do have quite a sufic quality in general. the second thing is that
the root of these teachings existed in the
> east prior to jesus. the sufis are often traditionally thought of as a
muslim movement, but in fact the sufi's
> themselves acknowledge that they pre-date islam, mohammed is just one of
the more prominent sufis. another
> paralell is between the sufic tales and the taoist texts. this is very
important because most of the sufi history
> only begins post-mohammed, making it barely one thousand years old.
taoist texts on the other had are the
> oldest written texts we have going back one or two thousand years b.c. and
they are all very literally studies in
> ascension. the issue, well for the time being 98% of these texts are only
available in chinese.
>
> even another paralell is in most religions there is the secretive side
with only oral traditions. at the heart of most
> of these cryptic teachings and initiations is the exact same quest to
ascend. the written word unfourtunately has
> ruined much of these teachings as the words without understanding are
worthless.
>
> what am i talking about?
>
> it's not that you will have to learn what to do in order to ascend, you
must recognize that everything that you do
> keeps you from ascending.
>
> incarnations
> korga
>
>
>
>
> to unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postid=r1uydpkmbuikdn04w3hteb0jtumssjrimgo96v wxcm62tro-kjzx_migzozmz59_ztgr9bxw53_eksuyw32fv7-taa)
>
>
>

[korga@...]

--- in asc2k@y..., "jeremy weiland" <jweiland@n...> wrote:
> cool, i can dig that. it makes sense - if you are sto, then you are
> serving self by serving others, thereby choosing not to recognize the
> duality of self / otherself. you see all as self, and seek to serve
> self/all.
> ra seems to say that gaining a polarity one way or another (sto/sts)
> allows one to gain more efficient experience, and by induction i assume that
> this means that ascension is a means to this end of gaining more experience,
> i.e. experiencing the creator. the point is that polarity (duality) can be
> a tool rather than an obstacle.
> understanding comes in lots of flavors. "there is only one path, but
> there are many ways to experience that path," as ra says.

(a bit hesitant here)
this is where i have to disagree. i could either say i disagree with your
induction jeremy or with ra's premise on
experience. in my studies, experience in this world, as you are speaking (via
sto or sts), though it is the
means to ascension, is not related to ascension. there is no experience, as you
speak of it, which can prepare
you for experiencing the creator. that would be against your induction.

polarity exists in this plane of reality and every plane below this one.
gaining a polarity one way or the other will
in fact allow for more experience but i don't know how effective it will be.
specifically both sto and sts can only
serve the ego. the ego thrives on duality. this may end up feeling great, but
at the end of the day we remain
attached. so what then of experience. again it is the tool, but the purpose of
this tool is to show you, you don't
need a tool. as long as you experience duality you need to experience duality
until you come to the realization
that there is no duality. that you need this experience however does not make
it effective but perhaps the
biggest paradox known to mankind. this would be against ra.

keep reading got. how does jesus see himself/others?

what am i talking about?

of everything you learn to prepare for ascension, the most important is that in
order to prepare for ascension you
will have to unlearn everything you have learned to prepare yourself for
ascension.

incarnations
korga

[Jeremy Weiland]

> experience. in my studies, experience in this world, as you are speaking
(via sto or sts), though it is the
> means to ascension, is not related to ascension. there is no experience,
as you speak of it, which can prepare
> you for experiencing the creator. that would be against your induction.

i can see that you and i are coming from two different schools of
thought. you see, i have been operating under the impression that polarity
was a direct result of experience, and that ascension rested on your
polarity (not which polarity you have attained, but how much you have
polarized one way or another). you do not see ascension in these terms,
apparently, so we have a difference of opinion in this area that i think may
be unresolvable. that's cool.
one point i'd like to bring up is the fact that, when perceived in
unity, all is the creator, including self and everything that is not self.
so in this world we are experiencing the creator each and every waking (and
sleeping) moment. every experience catalyzes us for the moment, not when we
will experience the creator, for that happens all the time, but rather for
the moment when we will choose to *perceive* the creator as self and all in
unity.
so if our closeness to unity is a function of perception and
understanding, then experience helps us learn to change our perception, and
the duality of this world catalyzes our experience. polarity is, imho, just
the path we take to get to that perfect understanding of unity and the
creator.
gotta run, but i'll follow up later...
late for class again,
jeremy

>
> polarity exists in this plane of reality and every plane below this one.
gaining a polarity one way or the other will
> in fact allow for more experience but i don't know how effective it will
be. specifically both sto and sts can only
> serve the ego. the ego thrives on duality. this may end up feeling
great, but at the end of the day we remain
> attached. so what then of experience. again it is the tool, but the
purpose of this tool is to show you, you don't
> need a tool. as long as you experience duality you need to experience
duality until you come to the realization
> that there is no duality. that you need this experience however does not
make it effective but perhaps the
> biggest paradox known to mankind. this would be against ra.
>
> keep reading got. how does jesus see himself/others?
>
> what am i talking about?
>
> of everything you learn to prepare for ascension, the most important is
that in order to prepare for ascension you
> will have to unlearn everything you have learned to prepare yourself for
ascension.
>
> incarnations
> korga
>
>
>
>
> to unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> asc2k-unsubscribe@egroups.com (/group/asc2k/post?postid=tr47weukrljhbicjlpr9vv4-hx3zktzs0swt3v4nejakhw4mgt0xh02pf7mj5pf6dybl5xhph2 8rqqmseprkhlpp2jq)
>
>
>