What nutrition style do you have? [Archive]

3D Sunset

10-06-2008, 06:05 PM

hi jadde44,

here are some pertinent quotes from the law of one regarding food.

law of one book i, session 18
questioner: are there any foods that are helpful or harmful that the instrument might eat?

ra: i am ra. this instrument has body complex distortion towards ill health in the distortion direction corrected best by ingestion of the foodstuffs of your grains and your vegetables, as you call them. however, this is extremely unimportant when regarded as an aid with equality to other aids such as attitude which this instrument has in abundance. it, however, aids the vital energies of this instrument, with less distortion towards ill health, to ingest foodstuffs in the above manner with the occasional ingestion of what you call your meats, due to the instrument’s need to lessen the distortion towards low vital energy.

{later in the same session}

questioner: i just have two little questions here at the end. the instrument wanted to ask if there were any other substances, foods, etc. that she should not eat or dring or things that she should not do because she does not wish to have poor contact for any reason.

ra: i am ra. there is no activity which this instrument engages in which affects abilities negatively. there is one activity which affects its abilities positively. this is the sexual activity, as you would call it. there are substances ingested which do not aid the individual in the service it has chosen, this being that which you would call the marijuana. this is due to the distortion towards chemical lapses within the mind complex causing lack of synaptic continuity. this is a chemical reaction of short duration. this instrument, however, has not used this particular substance at any time while performing this service. we believe we have covered the use of such chemical agents as lsd, this being positive to a certain extent due to the energizing or speeding up of the vital forces. however, it is not recommended for this instrument due to the toll it takes upon the vital energies once the substance wears off. this being true of any speeding-up chemical.

also:

law of one book ii, session 40
questioner: in dietary matters, what would be the foods that one would include and what would be the foods that one would exclude in a general way for the greatest care of one’s bodily complex?

ra: i am ra. firstly, we underline and emphasize that this information is not to be understood literally but as a link or psychological nudge for the body and the mind and spirit. thus it is the care and respect for the self that is the true thing of importance. in this light we may iterate the basic information given for this instrument’s diet. the vegetables, the fruits, the grains, and to the extent necessary for the individual metabolism, the animal products. these are those substances showing respect for the self. in addition, though this has not been mentioned for this instrument is not in need of purification, those entities in need of purging the self of a poison thought-form or emotion complex do well to take care in following a program of careful fasting until the destructive thought-form has been purged analogously with the by-products of ridding the physical vehicle of excess material. again you see the value not to the body complex but used as a link for the mind and spirit. thus self reveals self to self.

so it would appear that according to the law of one, what is most important is your attitude and supporting environment. it is certainly not considered sts to ingest meat, but it is also suggested to be done in moderation according to the discernment and need of the individual.

hope that helps,

3d sunset

Deambor

10-06-2008, 06:53 PM

hi, jadde.

i was a heavy meat eater for all my life, but about... well, about 13 or so years ago i simply lost the desire for it. i'm often asked why? i'm not sure myself. it particularly strikes others when they see me cooking meat, which i do on ocasion and have no problem with it.
i think the real reason is thast i hate when things get stuck in my teeth :), which is very true - it drives me crazy.

since then i have read that meat eating is associated with heavier energy, and as long as a person needs this energy - they will crave it. once the cravings or desire is gone - a person doesn't need that type of energy any more.
i know some people vegetarians for 10 year and then they suddenly go back to meat eating. it's what ever energy you need at this particular moment. that, of course, is one view only.

funny thing - recently i lost the desire for bread. not sure whast that means.

love to you and good luck.

checkmate

10-06-2008, 06:56 PM

i think it is an individual choice. i see no harm in eating meat as it is necessary to provide a well balanced diet. there is still so much we don't know about what our bodies need to perform to their maximum capacity.

i've always been drawn to the elements, the air is my friend yet i still breathe it. it comes down to what is comfortable for you.

as far as having visions, i have them also, but i'm not a vegetarian, although i have been in the past.

i think the important point is moderation and to obtain the purest foods we possibly can to aid our bodies to perform to their maximum capacity. jmho

wintersun

10-06-2008, 07:00 PM

david wilcock reported being a meat eater, citing the ineffectiveness of vegetarianism to meet specific nutritional needs.

ok now, this is not completely true! he had to consume meat at one time cos he had some serious work to do at the time, as there was no other way he could get regain the necessary energy.

david moved to louisville, kentucky in february 2003 to join forces with jim and carla, the two surviving members of the law of one contact. he was soon followed by fellow members vara in march and gary in late april. david reliably paid 601 dollars monthly rent, shopped for the group’s food on friday night and cooked the group’s food for the entire week all day saturday (with fellow member vara, who also did all the bookkeeping). david also regularly performed a variety of skilled labor tasks, including a complete remodeling of the basement, creating three new bedrooms and a large laundry room, under the direction and partnership of fellow l/l member bruce, also known as lonebear, who moved in as of december. gary also provided assistance in construction.

this remodeling process proved to be the most grueling physical labor david would ever perform. he literally worked from the time he woke up to the time he went to bed every day, stopping only to take paid clients, cook group food all day saturday and attend group meetings on sunday. he began eating regular animal protein again to support his physical body’s muscular exertion, and discovered that his particular blood type really benefited from it - thus he allowed limited types of organic meat back in after a seven-year stint of severely disciplined vegan dieting. (sorry to our dedicated vegetarians out there… some people can do it and some can’t.)

here's a quote from the archive:

dw: let's not forget that non-organic produce has many pesticides and contaminants that significantly increase the risks to health and decrease any perceived benefits.

overall my diet is quite strict and repetitive (sabrina hates this about me) but it suits me well. of course we start with the no's. no white flour (and now no flour of any kind, due to my sensitive system,) no refined sugar (now i'm actually avoiding all sweeteners, period, except for the occasional glass of rice milk,) no meat except fish, (and especially no red meat,) no dairy whatsoever, (if you must have eggs only do the yolks,) no white rice, (same effect as white flour,) no msg (which is so cleverly hidden with names like "natural flavor" that you basically don't buy anything prepackaged unless it is from an established health food store and is labeled as clean,) no fried foodand no preservatives. now by this point most do not think that there is much left to work with.

what i have every day, based on a constant interchange with the readings, is as follows: two or three huge glasses of water after awakening. wait 45 minutes. cooked millet grains forbreakfast (a complete protein.) wait two and a half hours, drink two or three glasses of water, wait30-45 minutes, thenmixed greens salad with garbanzo beans, shredded carrots, avocado, olives, extra-virgin olive oil, lemon juice and tamari for lunch. wait two and a half hours, drink two or three glasses of water, wait 45 minutes,and steamed dark greens for dinner, again with lemon juice, olive oil and tamari - usually a half onion, cabbage and broccoli included - always organic and never inorganic. if required for energy, i.e. if energy is too low, then baked fish can also be a part of lunch or dinner - although from a digestive standpoint it seems to work much better with cooked greens as opposed to raw salad greens. i do have the occasional unsalted brown rice cakes with almond butter for the in-between periods of water and meals - i.e. after water cycles but before meal cycles, or after meals but before water.

two hours after dinner you can have your in-season fruit, remembering that the really sugary ones do more harm than good, such as the bananas, pineapples, mangoes, et cetera. apples should only be eaten as cooked unless you're on a cleansing diet, oranges and citrus are doable, pears are ok at this time of year, melons of all kinds always good, papaya is fine, but again make sure it is organic. if the fruit is one where it needs to be peeled to eat, there is less danger of buying inorganic if your only other choice is starvation. citrus fruits should only be had by themselves and not with other fruits, and if you are a blood type o you are allergic to strawberries.

food combinations catch a lot of people. if you are going to have fish on this diet, you cannot blend it with carbohydrates (grains) in the same meal. you should never combine fruits and vegetables in the same meal. if for some reason you feel you must have dairy, it should only be had by itself - nothing before or after. also important is the water cycle. minimum of 30 minutes without significant water intake before a meal, minimum of two hours without any significant water intake after a meal. the reason is that it rinses away digestive enzymes and you end up with a lot of undigested debris stuck in your colon, which is not fun or healthy. also, you don't end up digesting the food and your body gets weak. the only exception to the water cycle is that you can drink water only 30 minutes after eating fruit, due to the speedy digestion that ensues (unless it is dried fruit - but that can have molds that again are very bad for you.) using enzyme supplements isextremely highly suggested.

going out to eat? don't do it too often (twice a week is plenty) and stick to either health-food store cafe's if possible, or chinese restaurants, hold the rice and the msg. (many sauces have sugar in them as well.) you can find your way around an indian restaurant fairly well, though many dishes have some form of dairy and / or may be uncomfortably spicy (which is detrimental to the body above a certain point.) should you be forced to go to a more mainstream restaurant, tell them that you have "special needs" and you would like the baked fish entree, without butter, and the lightly steamed vegetables on the side, without butter. ask for water only with your meal and don't drink any of it. then pray to god that you'll make it home without a coronary for your obsessive-compulsive behavior with the waitress, your guests and yourself. it's often better just to stay home.

- david wilcock

wintersun

10-06-2008, 07:24 PM

as far as having visions, i have them also, but i'm not a vegetarian, although i have been in the past.

yap, but these are kinda self initiated. until now i never was able to make them happen at will. now, it's like i have the necessary means to make them happen! i'll update my thread later so you will know what i mean.

johnasmodeus

10-06-2008, 08:40 PM

i don't see how diet reflects on your polarity much at all, unless you are purposely choosing your food in order to maximize control over other-selves.

and unless you are killing the animals yourself, it shouldn't affect your karma much either, i would think...

its all speculation anyway, though. keep doing whatever you feel is best for you.

estopatitiana

10-06-2008, 09:09 PM

hmm this is an interesting one because ive noticed many people take what they eat very personally.

one thing i find interesting is the survivial argument against vegetarianism, "you have to eat meat to survive." who can argue with that, its me or the animal right? and most people say its the animal thats going , not me. why not change that, why not be out in the woods, starving, and you come across a juicy fat slow rabbit. easy pickings right?, and instead of killing it and eating it say, "you know what im not doing this" i will go ahead and just die. that is a very selfless act, it might be easier for most people to sacrifice themselves for another person. but those who will do it for an animal? now i admire these people. if you study jainism maybe you already have a good hold on this idea.

2012 is all about change right? when is man ever going let meat go? lets move on and forget about our top "predatory" status. if more and more people put the steak knives down we will adjust! remember the italian lizard study david mantioned, it we be like that!

sorry for the rant

leo scone

10-06-2008, 10:34 PM

i have a friend who is blackfoot indian. he has participated in the sun dance ceremony and is not a "costume" indian. he is a deeply spiritual being who has described many amazing things to me, some of them direct confirmation of such things as ufo's, underground bases, free and alternative energies. he is a rare being and i am blessed to have any association with him.

along the way, i treated him and his wife to a big home-made tamale feast. as we were sitting down during the meal we got to talking about food, and its health benefits and effects relative to each of us. my friend "bear" told a story of a day he was invited by the buddhist monks from a local monastery (in the colestine valley of northern northern california) to participate in a ceremony up in the mountains with them. he accepted and when the day came they all went up in the mountains and had their ceremony. it lasted all day, and when they were done one of the monks said "phew, i sure am hungry! let's go down into medford (oregon) and get some hamburgers!" and they did. at some funky little greasy burger stand. "bear" said they were absolutely delicious and that everyone was rejuvenated by the food.

of course, they blessed the food well before consumption, and they ate with gratitude, and in that "bear" pointed out that all food was equal then, that it wasn't so much what you ate, but how you ate it.

on the flip side, from me, consider this: everything is made of light, and everything is made of consciousness. at what point, other than, say, rocks being un-chewable, does it matter what we eat? it's all made of the same stuff. what might matter most is how we eat.

then on the way, way, flip side from me, imagine this: one cow, one scream, many people fed. one vegetarian, one mouthful of avocado and sprout sandwich (mind you, sprouts are still alive!!!), many, many, screams!!!
oh, the horror!

so please people! don't eat live things! sprouts are people too!

or perhaps, eat what you eat, preferably that which makes you feel physically vitalized (not emotionally satisfied), but have great gratitude.
love is the very stuff of this universe, but gratitude makes it move!

bless you all and thank you for being! bon apetit!

Jadde44

10-07-2008, 05:58 AM

what we need to see is this: animals are alive and yes plants alive, but animals feel pain. studies have been conducted on this. according to what i have researched plants do not have a nervous system so they are unable to feel pain. now have you seen the way they kill animals in slaughter houses. [video did not work, please do not insert if it is graphic. thank you, moderator]
i know we do not need to eat meat to survive, because i have done it.
animals were not born to live in cages, in crowded conditions, not meant to be
beaten, and killed. they were meant to live like you and i. if we want to help
mother earth move into a new 4th density world then we must stop the pain
we stop the killing. by you buying your meat, you are supporting slaughter houses. you may not be taking the knife and killing them, but you are paying
someone to do it for you. it goes the same for fish. i have a problem eating
corpses because i sometimes feel the pain the animal felt during slaughter.
sometimes i don't know what to eat because i get hungry very often and
have not yet developed a good vegetarian diet. buddhist monks do not eat meat. i read that they go to pet shops and buy thousands of fish and then free them in the ocean. they are so loving towards creatures. tell what do you guys think about this?

KassandraLoves

10-07-2008, 12:39 PM

and in that "bear" pointed out that all food was equal then, that it wasn't so much what you ate, but how you ate it.

or perhaps, eat what you eat, preferably that which makes you feel physically vitalized (not emotionally satisfied), but have great gratitude.
love is the very stuff of this universe, but gratitude makes it move!

thank you for these excerpts. this is what i think it comes down to. there are no rules here. some things may work for one, but not for another. and isnt that beautiful? all of our balances are different in a million ways!!!! do what works for you and dont expect others to be that exact way. they have their own lessons, thier own time, their own physical needs...its not for us to say what will get another to oneness...

all we are here to do is radiate our love to all, not to tell people how to live or how to obtain the oneness with the creator.

love and light to everyone! meat or no meat! problems or no problems! enlightened or not! :d

estopatitiana

10-07-2008, 01:18 PM

leo scone

10-07-2008, 09:30 PM

so, i am a chef and have been cooking in professional kitchens now for 28 years. i don't think this discussion would be complete if we didn't speak as well about the energy that goes into food during preparation.

currently i am plying my skills as a shaman/chef at a pasta joint. good stuff. we use as many organic and natural ingredients as we can (a proviso about organic, people: organic is only as organic as the air and water that go upon the food - what with pollution and chemtrails i question just how "organic" we can call anything!) but as well serve plenty of meats and cheese. now, as a chef it isn't really for me to decide how or what people eat, past whatever controls i have over the menu itself. it's not to say i don't cringe when i see someone who weighs about 250# super-sizing our fettuccine alfredo. but i have to recognize their free will.

and i have to do my job, as well. i can't begin to tell you the difficulty in sorting out the issues involved in restaurant work: the waste, the flesh, questions about service orientation (yes, it is the "service" industry), like am i doing that large person a positive service by feeding them 3000 calories? i seek to be of service to others, and have found my feet on a path that intimately serves others, regardless of their orientation. but still i've questioned it.

however, i have come to understand what i do much better now as i have come to embrace the shamanistic qualities of working with food. to prepare a meal i am calling forth the principles of earth, water, air, fire, and spirit, and with an alchemical dash of salt and pepper, i transmute the raw materials into the refined. and in that moment i can put forth the intent that the food be healthful for the person it goes to. this higher view of my service is all that gets my aching feet through some redundant days.

it is like a standing order for me now, no matter my mood, be it joyous or pessimistic, playful or pissed. the food and its energy come first. i am not to judge anyone or their choice in meal, i am but to make it as energizing and positive an experience for them as possible.

indeed, the kitchen itself becomes a conditioned space, like an altar, or a meditation space. and in that conditioned space an intent can be set like a standing wave. mine is that the food be metaphysically nourishing.

and the feedback i get from my customers is that the food is delicious, and they appreciate that we do as much natural and organic as we can afford to, but they keep coming back because there is something else there, because the food just "makes them feel good" or makes them feel "whole again". and i cannot deny after all of these years that it is more than ingredients, or a recipe, or my physical skill with the food that produces these effects. it is because i am consciously in service knowing the intimacy of the mixing of my energy and the customer's.

thus am i shaman/chef.

point is, we are all wonderful, magical beings, and in conscious food preparation, aware of the melding of energies therein, that food can be positively charged - regardless of what it is. so along with the gratitude i spoke of earlier, we can also be proactive about the energy of our food. let your kitchen be a sacred space, and set within the intent that your food be magical and soul nourishing.

AmelieJolie

10-08-2008, 12:05 PM

you may want to consider the possibility that the animals know on some level why they are here, and that they too may have elected to do a service to humanity.

yes, this is a possibility, but we don't know this for a fact. i don't think any animal really wants to die- by instinct we wish to live and to survive.

i can imagine higher planes of existence where death is no more and that beings no longer need to hunt others for sustenance.

having said that, i was vegan for a while but i have lapsed away from this, also from being vegetarian. this is partly because i am slightly intolerant to soya (which contains enzyme inhibitors unless it has been fermented for a long time such as tempeh). and the other reason is through lack of convenience now i live on my own; a veggie/ semi-vegan diet needs a lot of careful planning and the meals need preparing well to make them exciting.

there are plenty of healthy alternatives to meet, quinoa for example (a super grain) is great, spirulina is a fantastic superfood supplement which is a "superfood", contains lots of b12 as well as being great for others things (as does marmite, yeast extract, contain b12). unwashed organic veg can also supply sufficient amounts of b12....lol. hemp is also a great food source. aww, i love those spicy frankfurter style tofu sausages.....lol

and the other thing is that healthy food (including fruit and veg) seems to be so expensive these days, at least it is here in the uk. :rolleyes:

i'm waffling....

David Radway

10-08-2008, 12:55 PM

one of the main problems for the meat eater is the fact that even if an animal could consider its death its sole purpose in life, it fears, it is bred in fear lives its life in fear and fears its death, that adrenaline of anger fear and aggression is then consumed by you, i have been a vegetarian for many years there are many meat substitute products to give all the protein and needed fats to our diet, the notion that an animal will choose to reincarnate be it knows that humans need food is nonsense, there are no more excuses, we are no longer hunter gatherers, our prey does not roam free with a resonable chance of escape, on another level i do believe in thanking my food and water for its sacrifice and you no what it tastes better, try it.

love and peace

:rolleyes:

dazcox

10-08-2008, 03:59 PM

or perhaps, eat what you eat, preferably that which makes you feel physically vitalized (not emotionally satisfied), but have great gratitude.

well said my friend! that totally makes sense to me!

johnasmodeus

10-08-2008, 05:36 PM

studies have been conducted on this. according to what i have researched plants do not have a nervous system so they are unable to feel pain. now have you seen the way they kill animals in slaughter houses.

buddhist monks do not eat meat. i read that they go to pet shops and buy thousands of fish and then free them in the ocean.

actually, if you read up on some of temple grandin's work [please pm as the link](i hope that this link is tangential enough to pass through the filter, otherwise just pm me) you will find that, when the killing is done correctly, cattle at least will not feel pain, even while their throats are being cut. it has something to do with the shape of the knofe and where the cut is made, but it is possible to take the animal's life with no apparent suffering.

also, as for the monks, i know that tibetan buddhist monks, at least, will eat meat. a group came to my state some years back to make sand mandalas and ate at least one meal at a local mcdonald's.

KassandraLoves

10-08-2008, 07:38 PM

if everything, even planets, even trees, even animals, even us, if every single living organism and cell is made up of "the spark of the divine" then arent we here to experience eachother anyway? we do it in relationships a lot. not only that, but ra discusses the fact that the creator is always experiencing itself. how is eating any different? i would consider that part of that umbrella, whether your a sprout or cattle or a human.

also, i do see from posts in this thread that everyone is centered on the "killing" part. well, really? arent we all eternal? havent we decided that? i mean, most of us do not fear death because we know there is more. and does that animal or life form or plant not go right to the creator, just as we all do??? we are incorporating that "fear reflex" when it comes to death in our statements against meat or plant eating....

------------------

we can all try and debate the food issue all day, really. it seems like it could go on forever. :) its very intruiging to listen to everyone's view points. at the same time, until we truly know when we are in a different plane of existence...then....we'll never know!

meat or no meat, right or wrong, good or bad....

it doesnt mean a thing if we are all truly loving and happy. and we will all, every single speck of it all will return to the creator at some point. so what does it matter?

Magical_Mongoose

10-08-2008, 10:48 PM

great points. remember that hitler was a vegetarian ;) it can point towards certain polarities, but really your diet has to do with biological necessity and not your true spiritual frequency.
some blood types, such as o-type blood, require animal protein. i've always said that the size and efficiency of the human brain is linked with our historical digestion of omega-6 fatty acids, such as fish. yet people over-consume animal protein to such an extent it becomes damaging to their body...which again is another extreme.
it raises several questions too about the act of hunting as well; a hunter could be a loving soul but if she/he needs to feed their family, then the act of killing an animal becomes a necessity. i wouldn't think it would be a negative karmic act if it's done with love and respect. although it may to some degree indicate sts polarity, the only way you can truly be of service is if you look after yourself too ;) and sometimes, that means gobbling down a nice burger or two...
but factory slaughterhouse conditions are pretty horrific...go for free range!

Detlef

10-09-2008, 05:36 AM

dear jadde44,
just a quick comment, in my understanding, eating meat, or other flesh, has very little if nothing to to with sts or sto, but a lot with vibration; our vibration.
many argument can be made or or against eating meat, or whether eating plant material is still killing. it all involves the mind, if you ought to sustain from eating meat, you will know, and you never will eat meat again. that simple. until then, eat with appreciation, what you enjoy.

regards detlef
rah nam

Jadde44

10-09-2008, 07:01 AM

i don't want to judge anyone. but after i saw "meet you meat" on you tube my life has never been the same. i think anyone that watches this video and sees the torture that animals go through in slaughter houses will never eat meat if they have a conscious and aware mind. these animals did not come here to live in cages, be tortured and killed. if you see the video you will see the suffering, you will see the sad life these animals live. for what???for us, when we can eat so many other things. there are so many alternatives to meat today that i feel animals should be left torture free. can you imagine someone slicing your throat and leaving you there to bleed to death? just so that we could eat...no human needs meat to survive, that is a false statement. you will not die if you stop eating meat, guaranteed. there is so much myth. i think many humans are not ready to understand and that is okay it takes time. when slaves were allowed they were viewed as human property and they were viewed as less than us. i hope one day we will not view animals as less than us and killing an animal will be punishable by law. i don't care if buddha, jesus, or the holiest masters ate meat. they too were not perfect and we should not follow anyone blindly. follow your heart but open eyes, stop sugarcoding and making it alright to kill these poor creatures. they came here to live just like you, not to be on your plate. i think its heartless to do what we do. i too included. i swear to you i can not understand humans. how can we have a pet birds,pet fish, pet dogs, pet cats and love them so much but turn around and eat chicken. how would you feel if they killed your pet? i hope noone on this forum gets upset or takes this personal but i am writing this because i am confused. confused at how this world can be so cruel. animals in the wild may not have a choice but we do.

tigermoff

10-09-2008, 09:33 AM

i go with what my body requires. my body tells me what it needs. i eat when i'm hungry and stop when ive had sufficient.

this may seem like teaching granny to suck eggs, but its surprising how many people over indulge on a daily basis.

3D Sunset

10-09-2008, 10:54 AM

leo scone

10-09-2008, 11:39 AM

so let's open this up even further. we live in an age of incredible ease and abundance, and truly all most of us can do is give lip-service to the idea of actually sustaining ourselves. i own my home and it has a small yard which my wife and i intensively garden. we have fruit trees and do our best to freeze, dry, or can all that is possible come harvest time.

do you know what we can grow enough of to get through the whole year on, including seed or stock for starting the next season's crop? garlic and cayenne peppers. and apples (dried or otherwise prepared).

really people, our ability to provide our own food is virtually non-existent. i garden for joy and health. i don't know that it saves that much on our food-bill as gardening has its own expenses (the rising cost of water being one of them, although its cost isn't rising like food at the store!), but the product is superior if only in that it is food i have been physically present and involved with, that i have imbued with as much love as i can.

but we are doing what we can to close the circle, to cut out the waste of transportation of food, to use the debris for our compost, to make the most of that which we have. frankly, while it is only garlic i can grow enough of to last all year, what if everyone grew enough garlic to last a year? it doesn't take much space at all and the reduction in diesel fuel used to transport garlic all over heck and back would be huge!

i've gotten perpendicular here though. we have chickens as well, kept for the eggs. they are loved, but we were careful to name them things like dumpling, potsticker, and barbie (i think her last name was "q" something!)
because in taking on chickens as part of our trying to close the circle, as it were, we have taken on all that is implied therein.

this year we got eight new birds as our four that were left are finishing egg production. this weekend it is time for me to thin the flock as we can't afford to feed chickens that aren't closing the circle anymore, y'know? organic chicken feed just went up $5 a bag. i am going to harvest the eldest chickens and add them to the circle (likely as enchiladas or chili).

they have been part of our circle, eating our leftovers, creating hi-test fertilizer for our garden, providing eggs for our larder, and ultimately providing protein of themselves to the table.

and it is a huge amount of work, but it is hands on and honest.

there was one comment in this thread along the lines of "well, at least i don't get the bad karma of actually killing an animal." i have to disagree, and say with this, as with anything, there is no single right or wrong on this free-will plane. i agree slaughter-house practices are deplorable, and egg-farms as well (another reason i raise my own chickens). so it seems very silly to think that i could be so fully and consciously involved in a process, trying to close the circle and lessen my impact upon the planet, and taking personal responsibility with as much love in my heart as i can, and i'm gonna end up sucking bad karma eggs for honoring my circle?! i think not.

and free will sez you may not like it, but that doesn't mean you can legislate against it. so easy there jadde44! if we can reach a global consciousness of love and eradicate the need for protein production (it is very inefficient raising, say, cattle, compared to what the feed would provide people directly) that will be wonderful. if we don't attain such consciousness, well, i'm gonna need to feed my family. you too. what then?

some of our ideas are based on the concept that the world food supply and local economies are going to allow the continuing choice of organic or not, meat or not. we are omnivores for a reason. beyond these great choices we currently have lays necessity. faced with necessity much of what is spoken of in this thread would be moot, philosophies that won't fill the belly.

let's bless the abundance of choice we have and seek that world-wide epiphany! between here and there, respect, love, and gratitude to all.

and pardon's for the length of this...

KassandraLoves

10-09-2008, 12:07 PM

...holding so much resentment for those who eat meat or kill animals or do anything you view as negative or unhealthy will only hold you back spiritually.

we are not here to judge what is right and what is wrong onto others. i think drinking alcohol is gross and i dont understand why people do it, but it is simply not for me to understand. i dont harbor resentment of a person who drinks. nor do i harp on them and tell them that "it is not the right way."

toss the judgements aside of those that are eating meat. toss the judgement aside for those that murder or love or hate or help or anything. we are not here on this forum for this, are we? to tell eachother that "eating meat is wrong" or doing whatever is wrong...

you cant guilt someone into not eating an animal or attatch the fear of death in your own mind to what is going on. one must come to their own conclusions and balances. if it involves eating meat? great! if it involves living a life off the grid and eating berries and twigs? great! if it involves anything that balances an individual in the way they require? wonderful!

everyone has their own balances!!!! rejoice in the fact that you have found your balance! stop chastising people for their path being different and wish for them to achieve the same wonderful balance, if they have not already, in any way that suits them!!!

the truth is, we are all as unique as snowflakes. one mans trash is anothers treasure. its not for you to say what is good and bad karma for anyone else.

again, rejoice, my friends, for we are all individuals with our own individual balances. meat or no meat.

butterfriends

10-09-2008, 01:54 PM

i agree with detlef 110%
i'm a natural vegetarian - eating meat and fish was always wrong to me, i was completely confused by it as a child, i ate it to please my parents but stopped at age 10, at which time i was old enough to explain why i needed to be vegetarian and to assist in food preparation.

the only place you need to look for answers to the vegetarian or not vegetarian debate is within.

however, i work as a marketing consultant - among my clients are a butcher and an organic livestock farm. i have the utmost respect for these businesses, they are non exploitative and trade ethically, sustainably and seek to encourage people to understand their food. despite being veggie i enjoy promoting what they do. i would however feel differently about exploitative farming practices or wasteful food production companies.

interestingly my son who turned 2 a couple of weeks ago asked his first vegetarian question today - he was watching a kids tv programme that mentioned fish as in food, and was clearly confused by the difference between fish for eating and fish swimming about. i tried to explain the difference and that we don't eat fish. i suspect we shall have many interesting vegetarian-related discussions as he grows... i however believe that since he chose me to parent him, he has already chosen a vegetarian childhood.

dazcox

10-09-2008, 06:58 PM

i'm broke right now (just started my new job after moving and haven't been paid yet) and i am so thankful for cheap food like lunch meat and hotdogs and mcdonalds hamburgers.

leo scone

10-09-2008, 09:24 PM

hey dazcox! a part of me has always considered hot dogs to be good karma food because they don't waste anything from the animal!

just make sure you bless the s**t out of that *hi* before you eat it!!!

Djonne

11-12-2008, 09:53 PM

i'm quite intrigued about other people's nutrition. are most people vegetarian or carnivore or quite mixed.

myself, i'm much more into steak, meat. i know that each time i eat a steak it is a living creature being killed for some to eat, that part is sad, but at the same time, even if human are killing thousands and millions each day, it is the way of nature. each animals hunt and kill to be able to live. i'm a naturalist, even if death can be sometimes disgusting.
i do not know much about food, but as our ancestors ate mainly meat, and a lot of living animals have to kill, in order to live.
*when you have to kill, it costs nothing to be polite*
i very seldom eat vegetables. my main meals are around 90% meat, 10% veggies. i tried eating veggies only in a day and honestly, i did not feel very well the day after. no energy, small headache.
my body needs that meat and stuff coming from it.
it may not be healthy, but i believe in nature, and nature shows me that human is made to eat meat, like a lot of other animals.

i have great respect for vegetarians, though i am not ready to stop eating meat. no that i approve of endless massacre of poor animals, i will not stop eating meat, as nature is meant to be.

Nancy

11-13-2008, 06:35 AM

it is certainly a bounty and blessing to be in the presence of such abundance that one can afford to be picky in choosing one's food. may it someday be thus for all people of the planet. :o

nancy in oregon

estopatitiana

11-13-2008, 07:14 AM

the difference between nature and the animal kingdom is that they are not aware of their actions, they have no choice, no free will. a cat is hungry it can only use what it has (instincts, anatomy) to obtain its food, it has no other choice. we have free will are well aware of our actions, and have a choice. confining 8,000 pigs in a barn is not nature. nature is perfect, in harmony, flawless. throw modern man in the mix it is exploited and out of balance.

list all the reasons why its necessary to eat meat, then all the reasons its necessary to be a vegetarian, you will notice your answeres for vegetariansim are moslty sto and meat eating sts.

the argument for plant suffering isnt valid if you know anything about plants.
grass thrives on grazing.
some plants benefit from being eaten, berries, fruits, which are colorful to advertise to thier vertebrate consumers.
root veggies might disagree, and some parts of plants like the foliage too. but they arent "screaming"

yossarian

11-13-2008, 10:35 AM

i pulled this from a website (decades of research back it up) pm for name

blood type o should basically stick to a high protein diet (including red meat), low carbs, fruits and vegetables. cut out wheat and most other grains, corn, and avoid dairy products and most nuts. must engage in vigorous physical exercise.

based on davids description he must be type o im apos and low and behold my diet and lifestyle fit niceley into this description (before i even knew about the blood type thing).

blood type a must ideally be vegetarian - high carbohydrate, low fat. basically, stick to fruits and vegetables. this blood type is supposed to have relatively thicker blood, and a sensitive immune system. must not consume dairy products, animal fat and meat. should engage in gentle exercise such as yoga or golf, and meditate to deal with stress.

blood type b can have the most varied diet of all the blood types. should consume a balanced diet of fruits and vegetables, grains, fish, dairy products. chicken is best avoided. should engage in moderate exercise such as swimming or walking.

blood type ab has most of the benefits and limitations of types a and b. should consume a mostly vegetarian diet, and only on rare occasions some fish, meat (no chicken), and dairy products. should engage in calming exercises and relaxation techniques. considered the friendliest immune system of all the blood types.

so basically everyone can go vegan except o's so there you have it.

i just want to point out that i've read descriptions of the blood types that do not fit in perfectly with these.

however, both agreed that type o benefits the most from meat.

i am ab and meat doesn't do much if anything for me... it actually makes me feel sick and heavy and lazy.

personally i don't think it is wrong per se to eat meat, however i think the way that animals are treated and slaughtered is not ok. i think if you do eat meat you should make an effort to get cruelty-free free range meat.

i have it easy because when i've tried to go off my vegan diet, i get really really sick immediately, haha. so it's actually been extremely easy for me to keep my diet. i'm not a perfect vegan though i have dairy every now and then.

FIIISH

11-13-2008, 11:37 AM

daily diet includes:

* lots of water

* fresh fruit and vegetables

* legumes and nuts

* chicken

* milk and cheese

occasionally tuna and some red meat. try to minimize
all medications and supplements- i see these as potential
poison.

jsnell26

11-13-2008, 02:39 PM

i highly recommend the work of [please pm for authors]. they have 3 books out. really groundbreaking ideas on nutrition, health, cause of disease, methods to heal.

ive been doing some liver/gallbladder flushes lately and getting out large bright green stones. i feel better than ever and my digestion has never been so smooth. i grew up with constant upset stomach and abdominal pain - even had gallbladder surgery at age 7 to remove a cyst. in high school i developed really terrible acid reflux and started to have celiac-like symptoms - intestinal pain, bloody stool, low weight, low energy, apathy. by age 19 i knew the food was the culprit and i had to make a change. so ive been following a mostly raw and vegan diet for 1.5 years. im still finding a balance. just changing diet is not a cure-all.

Leo1123

11-14-2008, 02:21 AM

as an aspiring strongman, i eat tons of egg whites, turkey sausage, chicken, almonds, and fish, for muscle growth and strength gains.

<chris>

piermarie

02-01-2010, 05:38 AM

hi i would like to share my thoughts about the vegan diet and our transition to 4d.
i find it interesting that as we rise in frequency to the 4d we wish to eat a vegan diet.
i have been a vegetarian for 16 years but only the last 2 years eating a vegan diet, with no dairy, eggs, or honey.
i have found it has helped me feel much better and more in"tune" with my self and better concentration in meditation.

many books i am reading now share the same concept that as us humans evolve and add the next strand of our repressed dna we all will be vegan humans.

the sirian high council books that i just read mentioned that it is better not to eat the killed animals. the fear and pain and hurt goes into these animal bodies when they are tortured and killed and then into us humans when we eat them. the low frequency keeps us closer to the 3d and the fear reality and way of life. i believe this has been a way the dark forces used to keep us humans in the lower killing mode of behavior and keep us from contacting the higher light beings and higher spiritual qualities that we carryin us like unconditional love.

would anyone like to share their thoughts and feelings about if they have changed to a vegetarian diet and vegan diet lately due to the rising of our earth to 4d?

i have read that our planet has 40% percent vegetarian people now and rising.

i just read some things that talked about beings from andromeda who are 5d and they are fruitarians. i can see us humans evolving to 4d with vegan diet than 5d as fruitarians.

as i understand the fruitarian diet beings only eat foods that can be plucked from a plant or tree, bush without hurting the plant itself. foods like tomato or cucumber and oranges and nuts, berries. because vegetable that are cut like lettuce, parsley have a "scared conciousnes" because the plant has an awarness. when a plant is cut it it gets a "scared feeling" that goes into the plant and you will get this into you when you eat it.
they may eat wheat or brown rise because it is only harvested after the plant is dried out and does not have any conciousness.

so i see that the 5d people are very sensitive to this and only eat foods that are karma free.

i am thinking that 6d beings would not have to eat anything just get their energy from the light.

there are now many web sites that talk about mass raising of animals for food is causing harm to our planet earth. the animals give out methaine gas that is causing global warming and drastic climate changes. there was a climate conference in copenhagan in december 2009 which talked some about this concept.

it would be better for the planet and us humans if we stopped raising animals and ate a vegan diet. if we all stopped buying this "dead meat food" , "dead fish food" then we could use the money to plant more organic farms around the world. the resources of water and grains that are given to animals could be better used for starving people on our planet.

please share your positive feelings about the vegan diet as helping you in anyway.

please refrain from posting to advance the animal eating diet because i believe this is already "old stuff" and soon will vanish from our planet as a way of eating. thank you.

Karen Rusk

02-01-2010, 08:21 AM

i've noticed many people saying how they feel better when they eat a certain way, which leads to my post: life is about how i feel about it, my perspective. so if i'm eating a fabulous chocolate brownie with roasted walnuts all over it, and i'm loving it and enjoying it and reveling in every bite, then it is "good" for me. if i'm eating a chunk of tofu, but not really enjoying it, it's "bad" for me. it really is that simple. i eat what i want, when i want. i don't go to doctors very often, but the last time i did, all of my blood work turned up textbook normal. i am at a perfect weight for my height, etc., etc. this is not because i am careful about [i]what[i] i eat, or how much exercise i get, i am sure of this. it is absolutely because of how i feel. someone mentioned blessing the s*** out of what we eat, and it seems to me that this might be a good way to start because then we would be putting ourselves into that mode of appreciation. however you get there, just get there. appreciate what the world gives us, love what you have, and allow yourself to be loved back, by the world and all of its inhabitants.

as a side note, i will say that with this idea about what i eat (and it covers my whole life really) i don't eat much meat, if at all, and over all don't eat much in total volume. i feel full faster, i am completely satisfied, and i live in this place of appreciation far more often because i remind myself to enjoy things, such as food. my long term goal is to simply stop eating all together because i'm not convinced i really need food. i do think, at least from this point in time, that i would still want to have some chocolate now and then, just because it tastes soooo good :)

docholiday

02-01-2010, 10:02 AM

putting 2 cents in regarding blood type diets :):

the book is written by [name-please pm for name] is a second generation naturopathic physician who states that he has furthered his fathers original theories and ideas. as a nd i can say this:

1. the theory of a blood type correlating with human tribal evoulution and eating patterns is intrigueing and seems logical, however; it is not backed up by any research - it is merely theory, speculation and opinion.

2. i have used the diet and continue to recommend it on occassion - i use it only when the person will not subject herself to specific food allergy testing and there is an obvious food allergy component - beyond the standard wheat and diary

3. the dietary recommendations frequently do not correlate with specific food allergy testing - and with each person being unique - i wanna know specifically what food allergies are/or are not present. i owe it to my patient to not speculate nor base my recommendations on someone else's opinion

4. if the theory were universally correct then we would see blood type o dominate sports/ olympic events etc... - fact is, there have been many vegetarian sports champions - in the olympics and other sports. in bodybuilding i remember andreas cahling as being vegetarian - again this would be contrary to [name's] theory. other world class vegetarian atheletes include:
desmond howard
bill pearl
art still (kc chiefs defensive end mvp hall of fame)
i have a list of 25 others and the mathematical odds of all being type a is 35,000,000,000 to 1

5. [name]states that type b and type o should eat meat daily to stay optimally healthy - yet we know that proper practicing vegetarians have significantly lower rates of cancer, gall stones, diabetes, kidney disease, obesity and colon diseases. it is mathmatically impossible, as the numbers are staggering, that the health advantages seen in vegetarians are accounted for by only type a's benefitting from the exclusion of meat.

american red cross data states that type a's make up 39% of the us population, b = 11, o= 46 and ab= 4. there is no possible way that the consistent superiority of a vegetarian based diet, as demonstrated repeatedly by world medical research, could be due to vegetarian diets having health advantages only for type a's, who are, after all, a minority of the population.

6. [name] believes that the increased risk of heart disease seen in type o's is decreased with daily meat consumption. that is contrary to any scientific/medical research (and perhaps contrary to common sense)

7. following research - i do agree that type o's have greater hcl production suggesting a more robust digestion and the ability to digest dense protein - but that doesn't necessarily correlate to better health.

8. the statement that cro magnon was type o is not found any research - the research is in fact to the contrary - all four blood types types existed at the time of the cromagnon.

9. according to paleontologist richard leakey - recognized as the world expert on the evolution of the human diet - meat would have been eaten rarely as evidenced by the inferior anterior and canine teeth

with all of that said, when i was in nd school, dr. diadamo came to speak; i attempted to ask some of my questions - he did not have an answer and quickly ran out of time for further questions. attempts to get questions answered via phone or email have not been returned. also during the my time spent with the 20 doctors that i shadowed or interned with - not one used the blood type diet.

my biggest pet peeve is the our profession is associated with this concept - this is unfortunate - as it has been my experience that so few naturopaths advocate it.

in regards to bodybuilding - a type o approach appears undeniably best -regardless of your blood type. the serious bodybuilder needs dense protein in order to achieve the physique he desires.

a few things to keep in mind: science/and metaphysics teaches us that dna is not set in stone but is malleable to our consciousness. studies of multiple personality patients prove this - as one personality can have type 1 diabetes, need glasses and be allergic to wheat/diary and another is not diabetic, has perfect vision and eats pizza without problems. if our dna can be changed by a shift of ones personality then perhaps this could account for the results seen clinically. i have a greater success rate using food allergy testing and the acid/alkaline diet approach.

also if the dna is malleable to our core beliefs then i would confidently state that there is nothing more powerful than clear vision, will power, self control, and knowledge in achieving one's goals.

luke

C-JEAN

02-01-2010, 12:46 PM

hi, food/diet watchers.

what nutrition style i have?

i/we changed radicaly, if we can say that ! b-)

we buy bio only (wellllll. . . as much as possible) !
buying bio assures you that the animals and plants you eat are well treated !
no bizarre hormones, antibiotic, etc. . .
no bizarre herbicide, pesticide, fertilizer etc. . .

_! ! if it is not bio, we avoid ! !_

this way we are eating much less bizare molecules, unknown, dangerous,
put in food by crazy industries like full-of-psychopaths-monsanto ! ! !
check the ** round-up ready ** crazyness ! !

and we aim:
no msg,
no aspartame-and-same-crap,
no colorant,
...and some i forget. . .
no fluoride, in water and tooth paste. . .
. . .any more suggestions ? please add some/many !

blue skies.

hazyjane

02-02-2010, 04:06 PM

i don't subscribe too much to the blood type thing, but i will say i know many o's (myself included) who do better on meat and don't tolerate grains/carbs well.
however, if you were to look at me (willowy, sensitive, the opposite of strong and athletic) you'd laugh if you read the description of the strapping, athletic, go-getter type o, lol!
i also suffer from low stomach acid, which is supposed to be strong in o's.

i changed my diet radically last year after 16 years as primarily vegetarian (with very occasional fish).
i had, for awhile, become a raw foodist, mostly vegan, but wasn't getting the healing results i was hoping for. then i had three different dreams dealing with my diet. in one dream, i had to analyze a table of the foods eaten by a very healthy-looking athletic man. it was basically a paleo diet spread i was looking at.

then, i had a dream that i was eavesdropping on two chinese medicine practitioners and one said to the other, while shaking her head "she needs to eat meat!" how much more blunt could my higher self have been, lol!?

in the third dream, another chinese practitioner was needling my head and said to me, very sternly, "are you really willing to do what it takes?" implying there was some area i was hesitant to address.

despite these dreams, it still took me awhile to finally eat the meat. i finally did and eventually adopted a higher-fat, lower carb, moderate protein paleo-type diet and i feel better now physically than i have in such a long time.

i eat small portions of organic, pasture-raised meat and eggs, fish, small amounts of dairy, lots of green veggies, some nuts and seeds and a bit of fruit (usually berries). no grains, beans or sweeteners. if i want to bake something, i use coconut or almond flour.

i don't, at this point, believe anymore that not eating meat makes one more spiritually evolved like i used to. i still feel myself growing and my frequencies changing, only now, my body is stronger and more grounded.

i know quite a few people who all have empathic/sensitive makeups who have gone from vegetarian to eating animal products and felt much better (david included).
i kind of wonder if some people maybe actually need the energies these foods provide in order to stay strong/fortified enough to handle this world's energy fields, whereas others might need something lighter to accelerate their frequencies?

docholiday

02-02-2010, 11:35 PM

kind of wonder if some people maybe actually need the energies these foods provide in order to stay strong/fortified enough to handle this world's energy fields, whereas others might need something lighter to accelerate their frequencies?

hello jane,

congrats - your current diet approach sounds excellent and it appears to be working for you. it has been my experience that many vegens, vegetarians are not optimally healthy
and find they feel much better after moving toward a more omnivorous approach. like yourself, i have experimented with and studied many types of diets over the years and have come to some conclusions that may add to this discussion:

1. every spiritual master that i have ever studied has firmly taught the importance of a balanced diet - free of animal flesh. as i understand it, the primary reason is that the ingestion of meat lowers the frequency of the mind/body/spirit complex, thus making it more difficult, if not impossible, to maximally elevate one's consciousness. in other words, the intake would be incongruent with one who desires maximal progress along the spiritual path. personal experience in meditation tells me that it is certainly easier to raise my consiousness up when i am fasting or eating raw foods.

2. i believe as one's consciousness rises the desire to eat the flesh of animals will decrease proportionately.

3. research into longevity has shown that if man is living according to natural laws, he can live healthfully/disease free into the 120's. there are verifiable, documented cases of those living 150 years and beyond. a partial list of these cultures are; the hunza, vilcambamba gregorians, and akasians (for starters).

the basic underlying principles of these healthy long-lived cultures are:

1. traditional cultural diets with:
local/mineral/vitamin/efa rich foods (and fiber)
(ie they get all of the necessary building blocks the body needs to regenerate and maintain the body)

2. the usually live in elevation:
(theories: a. the air is cleaner less toxins, b. they produce more rbc's in order to compensate for the decrease in oxygen, and perhaps they have developed more efficient ways of getting o2 to the tissue)

2. if meat is eaten, it is usually one to two times/week and is of course local/ free range and organic
-again vitamin/mineral/efa/protein rich - thus providing the raw material without the pollution.

3.fermented foods are eaten in all of these cultures
-provides the good intestinal bugs which are very important for elimination/assimilation

4.a spiritual belief or practice
-provides foundation for empowering attitudes, thoughts, beliefs, relationships, etc

5. daily vigorous exercise -
-circulation:
-increased o2/energy/nutrition to the cells enhanced waste product removal

6.perhaps the most fascinating - to be old in these cultures is to be revered. they are the celebrities in the community- they are the elders, the wise ones, the ones who are sought after to teach, to give advice, to share wisdom. (unfortunely this is not the case in the u.s. we tend to discard the elders)

in conclusion and perhaps most importantly: i would like to paraphrase what edgar cayce stated in regards to diet, .. it is much important what comes out one's mouth - then what goes in :).

regards luke

conundrum

02-03-2010, 05:52 AM

salt is an interesting subject as it contains trace elements depending on what type you eat.

billybobbutterball

02-03-2010, 12:18 PM

hi there, health food fans!

some threads in the archives tried to thrash out this subject a few years ago.

mention was made of the failed attempts of gandhi and his followers to eliminate animal products from their diets...this well-meant and spiritually motivated effort eventually failed as many --if not all -- got sickly and run-down.

in the ra material the ra mentioned an occasional need of whomever (carla?) to include the use of "meats" in the diet.

a short while ago i ran into an investigation of the hunza claim of extreme longevity -- supposedly grounded on their diet of supposedly healthy diet/water. according to this latest evaluation the whole thing was based on a misunderstanding of how age was determined by the hunza's -- plus acute ignorance of what actually constituted their diet seeing that it had to accommodate changing seasonal conditions during the year. this report painted a wholly different and quite miserable picture than that sketched by those who helped create the famous fable which inspired so many would-be food gurus to reccommend emulating the supposed hunza lifestyle.

at the heart of the misunderstanding was that the hunza's did not count age as in years but rather according to the wealth of life experiences encountered and survived by a particular individual. also, the initial encounter by the explorers missed the fact that the lower class were downtrodden and miserable...they may have been rich in experience but not in the western tradition of counting by mere years!

my latest attempt to remain healthy until i die--------

for what it is worth i'm basically a grainless starchless vegetarian..(tho sometimes in the past food-choice damn near killed me -- probably because of residual pesticides on green leafy stuff that i thought to be "healthy")

cutting to the chase below is a short version of what seems to be working for me now:
(note for blood type devotee's, i'm the rare blood type ab)

my basic meals come out of the freezer then through my powerful blender. my veggies are mainly cauliflower, broccoli, bok-choy, asparagus, --smaller amounts of carrots(for vit,a) lemon, apple, cranberries, blueberries, etc.

for amino acids i add copious amounts of isolated rice protein and isolated pea protein. i stick in a high omega-3 raw egg gifted to me from a cage-free hen. i add a dollop of exv olive oil and apple cider vinegar, plus a couple of nuts..such as brazil or almond --

added in is a heaping couple of tbs of stabalized rice bran (one of the most highly concentrated and amazingly nutritious of all the super-foods) i add varying amounts of chlorella and spirulina. a key ingredient is a couple of spoonfuls of the fabled chia seed -- which i stick into my coffee blender along with a spoonful of organic cocoa...(the cocoa powder keeps the chia seed oil from forming a sticky paste)

there is a bunch of other minor stuff that gets dumped in....all depends just what happens to be in reach at the moment. my kitchen does sport all sorts of bottles of this and that type of supplement...i have a hard time keeping track of it..

for moderating taste i depend upon a few drops of stevia/glycerite balanced by some added ascorbic acid powder...sometimes i brew up a motley herbal tea and use it for my liquid base. it never tastes the same twice. some of it turns out really good...but like the famous "lost chord" in music i can never recapture it. groan.

now i'm quite satisfied with the above vittles ... once or twice a week i will take about 3 ounces of range-fed bison and stew it in a 1/2 cup of picante sauce.

i do confess that..i keep some tumeric-seasoned white basmati rice and quinoa, in the fridge. i warm up 1/3rd cup with a little coconut oil to make an added side dish taste treat sprinkled with parmesan ..but i take this in very small doses -- or it triggers off a raging lust for sugary and starchy junk!! (i've begun to look on the dangers of getting entangled in entrapping junk food like a resolutely reformed alcoholic regards a drop of booze)

above all...one must be thankful and grateful for the food and (filtered) water and to fill it with prayer-power to fully support our 3-d meat suit we are borrowing for this go-around.

hey! my very best to those managing to get this far:d billybobbutterisgood.

ps for information on food google-dial nutrition data......one item to keep in mind when checking a food out is its the inflammation score....inflammation is the killer!:eek:

believe it or not two of the foods rating the highest in health-building and desirability are ........(drum roll)....broccoli and cauliflower!...i don't like their taste or to eat them in the regular manner...but in the smoothie drink they do good..cauliflower in fact rules since it blends up in a bland, creamy manner that goes well with other ingredients. :)

Shrike

02-03-2010, 12:38 PM

i eat everything :)
from broccoli to beans, corn, lettuce onions peppers and from chicken to beef, lamb and goat. i also eat pizza, burgers, fries and what not kinda fast food.
but everything in moderation. there's no day or week or month that i eat the same thing over and over.
as for drinks same there i drink water, thee, coffee, pop, beer.
i'll just eat & drink it all and don't think about it :)

for the record no health or weight problems here :d

billybobbutterball

02-03-2010, 04:03 PM

hi there, shrike

seeing your self-proclaimed ruthlessly no-holds-barred eating habits i can see where you got your name!:d

(besides their hair-raising screeching criy, shrikes are known for their habit of catching insects, small birds, or mammals and impaling their bloodied bodies onto thorns. this helps them tear and rip the flesh into smaller, more conveniently-sized fragments, and serves as a cache so that the shrike can ration its food so as return to the uneaten portions at a later time.:eek: ) (slightly modified from wiki bg)

okay...shrike, one thing we need to know before we can fully evaluate your health-preserving diet as described.....just how old in years are you? ( your personal info file has zip)

inquiring minds need to know!

my best etc., billybobbutternut

i eat everything :)
from broccoli to beans, corn, lettuce onions peppers and from chicken to beef, lamb and goat. i also eat pizza, burgers, fries and what not kinda fast food.
but everything in moderation. there's no day or week or month that i eat the same thing over and over.
as for drinks same there i drink water, thee, coffee, pop, beer.
i'll just eat & drink it all and don't think about it

for the record no health or weight problems here :d

Shrike

02-03-2010, 04:57 PM

i am 38 years.

well my previous post seems like a statement now that i look back on it.
but more or less it kinda what i ment. ( i just don't master english enough to express fully what i mean)
i do care about the factory slaughter houses. i don't want those to exist.
our super market also sells bio products what we usualy buy.

Shrike

02-03-2010, 05:09 PM

oh and yes for the name "shrike". i know that is my online name for many many years and i know about the bird :)
but i choose it from 'dan simmons' hyperion book series when i was a teenager

billybobbutterball

02-03-2010, 06:57 PM

shrike, i was just pulling your leg a bit ...teasing you. (incidentally, "the shrike" was a movie way back when staring june allyson; whereas this normally sweet-natured actress played against her type and took on the role of a very nasty, sharp-tongued, bitchy wife....a real shrike!!):eek:

anyway, shrike, you haven't answered the important age question in that -- keeping in mind -- when one is relatively young the body can often take heaps of abuse before it starts to show signs of wear, tear and despair.----------:p

so, if you are somewhere in your teens or twenties your eating agenda may not have much going for it in recommending its use for older, more decrepit human specimens. true perhaps?:) no big deal, just curious. bill g aka billybobbutterball

oh and yes for the name "shrike". i know that is my online name for many many years and i know about the bird :)
but i choose it from 'dan simmons' hyperion book series when i was a teenager

Shrike

02-03-2010, 07:11 PM

my first reply is on page 5 :)
the name post was follow up
but again i am 38

Shrike

02-03-2010, 08:55 PM

-----------
best policy.... don't mess with no shrike's!
-----------

to billybob
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfhxylsqt2q
there's yr shrike in action.

piermarie

02-04-2010, 04:57 AM

hi, i just wanted to share my opinion on masters and diet. from my understanding and from what i have learned from my living spiritual master is that all true masters that have been born on earth always eat a vegan diet. if anyone is actually in touch with the higher realms of spirit these people will deffinately eat vegan because they know of the law of karma, and the law that the pain and hurt, fear, and hate of the animals killed goes into the body and then into the person whrn they eat these animals.

this lowers your frequency to the divine light. making it impossible to meditate to go to the hugher deminsions. and all these masters meditate on the divine light and sound.
i am talking about the famouse masters that we have read about such as jesus, buddha, prophet mohamid, rumi, and more for example.

my beliefe is that any information that states that a divine master, likes these beings, have eaten animals is a false teaching and was changed by the dark forces in the history books and sacred books. i think many people believe that the holy books are true as they read now, but i have come to believe that they have been rewritten and altered in favor of the dark control teaching.

the true teaching related to diet is harder to find and always points to masters as being vegan, because they live the life of :"ahimsa" non-harming of any sentienent being.

this is what i believe and many people do too, i know it is hard for people still eating dead animals to believe this is not correct but after this time 2012 when we are free from the dark forces it will be easier to see the correct diet for us humans is vegan. thanks.

hazyjane

02-06-2010, 12:17 PM

there isn't reliable data on what all the spiritual masters ate. i know that the dalai lama eats some meat for (his own words) "health reasons".

many taoist masters are not vegan or even vegetarian except for certain energetic cultivation processes that are for a short-term period (and even then, they eat a very carefully crafted diet full of special herbs to replace the "jing essence" energies of the animal products). taoism is all about becoming sensitive to the energy in everything and observing the effects of that energy. some people truly do lack certain energies and need to make up for it with animal products in diet.

if i could feel good without it, i would be vegan;) my higher self is telling me otherwise at this moment in time! it certainly doesn't seem to impede david's spiritual growth to be eating a non-vegan diet.

as for karma, much karma can be actively transmuted on a daily basis. what is karma, after all, but a series of contracts that we make and energetic imprints we accumulate? in taoism, this is called the "acquired self" which obscures the "true self". there are wonderful techniques that completely remove these energetic patterns and imprints and repattern them. it is amazing to experience this- it's like old wounds are instantly gone!

i see it this way- i chose to incarnate into a 3d world, fully aware of the cycles of life and death that all living creatures interact with in this world and my place within them. i am at peace with that. i will be absolutely thrilled if/when the needs of my physical body change after the big shift;-)

rose star

02-08-2010, 08:41 AM

hi jadde44

i too am vegetarian, because i do not want to have the animals harmed.

i hope you will be able to continue with the vegatarian way, not going back to meat.

i once went to a state fair and was able to see in person up close the animals like brown cows, chickens, pink pigs and turkeys. looking directly into their eyes and seeing a highly loving being in these animals really helped me to know i was "doing the right thing" by being a vegatarian.

these animals look so lovely just like dogs, cats, horses, parrots.
why do people eat cows, pigs, chickens when they are just as intelligent as dogs pigs, horses?

it must be programing from many generations and centuries that has taught people to eat these animals. we would never consider eating our dogs, parrots and horses.

most people are separated from animals and nature and live in the city.
i think if most people went to a farm or fair to see them and hug these animals they would become vegetarian.

i know that the farm people who raise these for food are also conditioned that it is ok to do as a job to make money.
if people didnt buy these meats, then the animal farms would find better things to sell.

not to mention ,if people went to slaughter places and saw and heard the screems of the animals this would awaken many people to be vegetarian. mercy for animals page at choose veg has good info about animal farms and suffering of animals.

but pictures do not give us the full feeling that seeing these animals in person would do.

i recommend anyone to go to see beautiful animals in person to awaken them to the benifits of being a vegetarian.

we are given these animals "gift wraped" in the grocery store and are not reminded of whose body the "meat" comes from.

i hope more people can awake to the kind and compassionate way of eating as vegetarian.
please consider the suffering of these beautiful animals before buying it .thanks,rose atar

transiten

02-08-2010, 11:14 AM

hello rose star

what do you think the indigenious pple of greenland should eat to survive? if they don't move into cities and become unemployed starting to drink as they are getting cut out from their natural lifestyle where vegetables just don't exist....

it's not that easy, black or white, the same solution for everybody at the same time...

transiten

evolving

02-08-2010, 06:39 PM

i too am vegetarian, because i do not want to have the animals harmed.

i once went to a state fair and was able to see in person up close the animals like brown cows, chickens, pink pigs and turkeys. looking directly into their eyes and seeing a highly loving being in these animals really helped me to know i was "doing the right thing" by being a vegetarian.

these animals look so lovely just like dogs, cats, horses, parrots.
why do people eat cows, pigs, chickens when they are just as intelligent as dogs pigs, horses?

i know that the farm people who raise these for food are also conditioned that it is ok to do as a job to make money.
if people didnt buy these meats, then the animal farms would find better things to sell.

i recommend anyone to go to see beautiful animals in person to awaken them to the benifits of being a vegetarian.

we are given these animals "gift wraped" in the grocery store and are not reminded of whose body the "meat" comes from.

i too am a vegetarian, but your view on "farm animals" from one trip the state fair and from pictures is both naive and slanted. having grown up on a farm and lived around animals most of my life, 99.9% are simply not huggable. i guarantee the first time you try get near a cow in a field it will either run from you or try to kill you. i've seen plenty of cattle that would be plenty happy to kill a person. chickens can be downright mean and chase people all the time. pigs will kill you and eat you before the neighbor shows up to look for you, and horses... they bite, kick, and trample when in their natural environment, and even trained, broke, gentle, whatever term a person wants to use nowadays, can still do major harm to a human. you are talking about some animals that weigh 10 times what a person weighs. it's like comparing a 200 lb man to a 20 lb child. if the man wanted to do harm, it could easily be done.

why am i a vegetarian? there are two reasons.

the first is that feedlot farm animals... well ok, all cattle in the us (as many places) are given, in their lifetime, more shots of toxic growth hormones and other pharma cocktails that simply gets passed on to those eating the animals. chickens are fed the hormones and god knows what else a well nowadays. i will not ingest poison, no matter how pretty it looks. i don't know about pigs, having not worked in a pig barn, but i expect even though very clean, they are crowed to capacity and the pigs are given all sorts of shots as well.

the second is because i also believe that the pain and suffering of animals is passed on via their flesh, and i do not wish to take that on. feedlot and chicken farms (i have worked both) involves a terrible life for these animals. there are cattle nowadays that never see a field other than over a fence, and chickens that only see the outside world through a door or when they are loaded into crates and onto a truck for slaughter. i think this is downright despicable that humans can do this to animals for their own gluttony, and when you see the size of steaks in restaurants, yes it is gluttony. considering one cannot digest 50 grams of meat from one sitting, eating more than that is a waste and serves no purpose other than to try and satisfy the empty hole in their heart from lack of spiritualism.

now, that being said, i believe that i would eat a free grazed cow/chicken/deer/moose/etc that had led a harmonious natural existence and had a wonderful life, and that was killed without the animal having been in fear or suffering. what i mean by that is that an animal that is killed without the time to even understand it was dead... a heart shot, so no suffering is invoked... no toxins, no suffering, all good.

now, when it comes to eating other animals, dogs, cats, horses... etc... i've eaten those too, but because i was living in asia and it was an insult to turn them down, for these delectables were for the guest of honor, me. i never cared for them and always ate as little as i could so as to not offend, but many people in many parts of the world do enjoy these meats. in some parts they even eat guinea pigs, fried an with a little butter "mmm" they will say thinking about it while their mouths water.

i agree with you that the western "gift wrapped" style does make it simple, convenient, and with a lack of responsibility and remorse. i think everyone should have to take responsibility for eating meat. make everyone watch a 30 second video of the animals living arrangement and its slaughter, and then they can choose to eat it or not.

transiten

02-09-2010, 01:36 AM

hi

i share your perspective evolving and i've been a vegetarian for a long time but for some months now i felt i had to eat meat to get enough potein. i've been weakened physically for some time but now i'm gaining strength so by this spring i will go back to a more vegetarian diet but i think i will still eat fish and shrimps though. in many cultures they live on a vegetarian diet with rice and beans combined that give a high percentage of protein and they eat meat just now and then when celebrating something f.i.

transiten

piermarie

02-09-2010, 06:56 AM

hi, i like david wilcock latest blog about be at peace with the coming changes.
and the higher self is a good spiritual guide.

david does say that he believes all of us can get connected with our higher self.
he has put much work into making the connection with his higher self.
david does mention that a "pure diet" helps for him with this connection among other things.

for me "pure diet" means eating animals free foods.
so for me i believe the pure diet is a vegan diet. this is how i see it.

you may see it differently.

if you are able to connect to your higher self and have higher spiritual experiences with the cosmic light with an animal diet than that is good for you.

from my understanding and beliefs and from my own spiritual experiences , no one can "go far" or go "higher" into the domain of the light with the low energy of animals foods because they vibrate at very low level due to the harm and pain and hurt the animals suffer which goes into their body then into you when you eat it, as well as the negative karma that you receive from it.

i understand this concept is upsetting to many people.

there are many people who practice meditation while still eating a meat diet.
however i believe they do not go to the higher realms in the light.
there is only so far they can go with the low vibration animal diet. this is logical to me.

as we go higher in the light vibration it is much faster or "quicker" these light realms. there is more divine love and greater intensity of light.
for example, if your body is only a 25 watt bulb in vibration you can not even handle a 1000 watt energy much less a 1,000,000 watt energy.

but i believe most of humanity thinks the animal body food is ok due to the thousands of years programed by the low dark forces. these beings have taught this to us.
this low animal diet is just another one of the dark forces way to keep us in a low vibration and hold us back from connection with our higher self.

it is hard to break free from this.

once you do break free and eat vegetarian diet you can see and feel much ligher and better and have a deeper connection to your higher self. you must do the work that it takes to make the connection to your higher self like david does.

all of us can have perfect health on a vegan diet. the plant kingdom has all the vitamins and minerals we need. now a days there is much "fake" meat from soy to help us make this transition to vegetarian diet for those that need foods that look like the animal kind.

some frozen soy foods called " imitation meats" are coming from taiwan, they look like real shrimp and chicken and ham, but are not. theses foods are a good start for many of us. there is plenty of vegan hamburgers and hot dogs out there too. just look up on the internet for online stores that can ship to your house.

i myself do not see why it is so difficult for most people to put down the dead animal and fish food, but it must be very hard to do.
adonai, peace, pier marie

transiten

02-09-2010, 11:46 AM

ok piermarie

so you mean that the inuite pple on greenland f.i. has reincarnated as a group and as long as they withhold their natural lifestyle eating seal and fish they cannot rise their vibration and are doomed to not being able to contact their higher self?

transiten

billybobbutterball

02-09-2010, 12:05 PM

more than your ever wanted to know about eating.....

for those embarking on a vegan diet please make sure you have a good source of vitamin b-12 as there is no reliable veg source for it. (spirulina and chlorella supposedly are a source of b-12 but it seems these are only b-12 analogues which are not bio-available) the type of b-12 needed is that called methyl b-12 (methylcobalamin)

whatever, do not use soy products! watch out for gmo corn. don't use seed oils.
(too high in omega 6)

use coconut oil, ev olive oil, chia seeds...the superior source of omega 3

for much needed protein there is available very high-quality isolated protein extracted from peas and brown rice.

check out your food at www.nutritiondata.com the vegetables rated highest for my purposes are broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus, brussels sprouts, carrots, bok choy.

most days i add a gifted high omega 3 egg from a cage free and hopefully happy hen

about twice a week i use a cup of picante sauce to stew 3 ounces of blessed ground meat from a free-range bison...i bless him for the contribution she has made for the health of the 2-d body i'm borrowing.

if you are tempted to go on a complete vegan diet keep in mind that it is an embarrassment to the vegan community that many of the vegan gurus die at an early age.

years ago my wife and i decided on spiritual grounds to try a macrobiotic diet...we liked the food. but changes were taking place in our bodies that escaped notice...looking at pictures taken then i'm surprised about how haggard we were looking. my wife's beautiful hair had even lost its sheen,-- and she was barely twenty! in turn i had lost a great deal of muscle from my arms and shoulders and looked ten years older.:eek:
luckily we finally woke up to the fact that we were on a dangerous path...but i don't think we ever fully recovered from that well-intentioned but misguided experiment.

i have a good friend who was a vegan for many years. she had spent some time with anne wigamore's group...that very woman who made wheat grass famous. geri claimed she ate and ate enormous amounts but kept losing weight until she was 65lbs at 5'4". she married, but no children, when she added meat to her diet it seemed that overnight her lips gained color -- she finally got pregnant in her forties...four times in fact! she is a blood type o and now knows that she must have meat a couple of times a week -- else her lips lose their color and she starts on a downward slide, physically and emotionally.

concerning humans and animals....in the archives can be found a discussion of what possible good could come from an encounter of a hunter with a deer. it seems that because the hunter is of a higher density than the deer his attention directed to the deer has a favorable effect on the deer's future -- even if it is killed in the contact. the deer is part of a community soul of deerness...so to speak.. but this contact has the beneficial effect of helping to individualize the deer from the soul-herd and to send it on its way to 3-d.! (now if such an apparently brutal act of hunting has a reciprocal payback to the 'victim', imagine the positive power given to a dear pet who is so much loved by its person!):cool:

i truly hope that some of the above info above will be of help and not a hindrance.
all of us have different agendas here on earth and must go our chosen way...so
naturally we can expect a great deal of disparity between our various yellow brick roads.:)

love... bbb

capt.libra

02-09-2010, 04:41 PM

iam a hunter. when i hunt i sit and wait for an animal to come to me. we are both aware of each other and the deer, elk, or antelope know why i'm there. our spirits commune. i believe only in clean kills and i thank the animal that privides its life to nurish my tribe. enough said on that.

if you have ever had a free range egg you won't eat those at the markets. i like bbb"s explanation of them being gifted!

broccoli,, the flower is ok in salad but the stem cooked and pealed is the best part of the plant.

btw i have 4 fruit trees in my yard and when in season i very little meat.

here in idaho we have a place named snake river farms the home of kobe beef. they are raised free range and the slaughter is as humane as possible.

Understanding

02-09-2010, 04:47 PM

hi everyone i don't know if anyone remembers me, but i use to post here i took a break for probably almost 1 year and a half, but we probably be posting here a bit more in the future.i am very concerned with my diet and try to eat raw fresh fruits and vegetables as much as i can. i do know that fruits raise your insulin levels and i was on divinecosmos earlier looking for that article about the instance evolution every couple hundred thousand years from the university of illinois i think, if anyone knows where to find it and help out, thanks. i was wonder about fruit because i was skiming through davids blog and found one about diet and how some fruits contain a lot of frutose,and is acidic was was wondering if i should avoid fruits. i have a juicer and like to make juices with strawberries, kiki, pineapples, apples, blueberries thing of that nature. should i cut it down??? another thing is brewers yeast which is popular nowadays....i don't use brewers yeast, but i know a lot of people who do. any tips would be appreciated thanks and good luck to all!!

docholiday

02-09-2010, 07:10 PM

docholiday

02-09-2010, 07:44 PM

hello understanding,

in reference to: i was wonder about fruit because i was skiming through davids blog and found one about diet and how some fruits contain a lot of frutose,and is acidic was was wondering if i should avoid fruits. i have a juicer and like to make juices with strawberries, kiki, pineapples, apples, blueberries thing of that nature. should i cut it down???

i have some experience answering this type of question so - from the for what is worth department:

first of all, i too juice daily and love it!!! and believe that the juices extracted from high quality fruits and vegetables by a reputable uicer are absolutely some of the best things you could put into your body.

2. regarding your question about the sugar content of fruits juices from the juicer: as always, every one is unique - so you have to determine how your body is reacting to the fresh fruit juice in order to make a truly educated descision. one thing you might try is a glucometer ( these are very affordable from local drug stores) and test your blood sugar before you drink your juice, for a baseline and then take readings 30 min, 1 hour and 2 hour following and see how you handle it.

3 .if one has been diagnosed with blood sugar dysregulation problems ( ie has sx's of hypoglycemia, or diabetes) then it becomes very difficult to advise one to continue drinking fruit juices.

3. if your blood glucose readings were too high for your comfort then you could try;

a. blending in some of the pulp - which will enhance the fiber content, thus slowing down the glucose release into the bloodstream

b. have a 1-2 teaspoons of some high quality oils with the drink

c. ensure that you are eating some high quality protein with the fresh juice

4. i recenly bought the 'blender' via a tv ad and i must say that it makes one heck of smoothie !!- which is chuck full of that important fiber which is typically lost in the juicing.

(note from mod..brand names are not allowed..please pm docholiday for details bbb)

blessings luke

sacredsound

02-09-2010, 08:54 PM

i have to say that since i switched to a vegetarian diet, my mental clarity has increased, and meditation is easier. however, i'm not saying that becoming a vegetarian does the work for you, it just makes things a little easier. also, remember that people like jesus and milarepa ate meat during their spiritual journey, and they both attained total enlightenment. now, becoming a vegetarian/vegan can only help (unless there is some medical issue), but don't beat yourself up if you aren't. many people find that they naturally stop eating meat after a while on the spiritual path. the most important thing is your "internal" system (meditation, prayer, mental stability).

billybobbutterball

02-09-2010, 09:49 PM

hi there understanding...wondered what happened to you!

fruits...in moderation...strict "fruitarians" generally don't seem to do well over the long haul. only diets seemingly worse for the average persons is that of "breatharians" seriously, there are some around...but they do tend to disappear without notice.
citric acid in citrus fruits cause some people problems...i stay away from oranges and grapefruit but lemons are in general highly recommended. i use a frozen slice every day.
( the electron rotation of lemons is opposite that of virtually all other foods...at least according to some pseudo-scientists who are interested in quantum things)

fructose in fruit is not generally a problem. the really dangerous fructose is that known as "high fructose corn syrup" -- used in hundreds if not thousands of products...and despite the propaganda ads to the contrary it is very nasty stuff. fructose does not directly effect blood sugar (which why it was once considered the darling of all sweeteners) however it is the most fattening of the sugars and plays havoc with one's metabolism...do a google to find out why. another counterfeit slipping under the radar is agave nectar...the process used to extract this supposedly health-giving sugar is virtually identical to that of corn syrup technology.

i don't use commercial grapes anymore as they seem to be loaded with pesticides...i ended up trashing ten lbs of them...right along with bags full of greens -- such as romaine lettuce-- all of which caused my skin to break out and fingers tremble.

note: i don't use a juicer anymore...rather i use a top of the line blender in order to keep the most valuable pulp. one item i consider extremely important is chia seed.
a beneficial side-effect of chia is the gel it forms...which slows down absorption of high glycemic index foods -- which in turn keeps blood sugar surges under control

( incidentally, most of my foods come out of the freezer into the blender...if there is an extended power outage from a solar flare i will be a dead duck!:eek: )

i didn't know that brewer's yeast is all that popular (again)....wow! that jumps back 60 years to the days of adele davis -- whom it turns out was both a blessing and a curse to the budding health movement. but come to think of it, a health bar she popularized and dubbed the "tiger's milk bar" is still sold...and it is loaded with brewer's yeast. i haven't taken the stuff for forty years... very high in phosphorus and an embarrassing gas producer to boot...

i would strongly suggest that those interested in diet/health issues check out mercola.com
(note: to maintain our policy concerning advertisements issues you are all instructed to ignore completely any commercial ads that might have accidentally wandered onto his site. seriously, mercola has dedicated his life to spreading vital health information..his is a great place to start looking ...(spoiler) don't let his looks throw you off )

my best to you...hang in there!...if you disappear again i will fear that something went seriously wrong with the dietary advice! (pm bbb for source of chia stateside)

billybob

hi everyone i don't know if anyone remembers me, but i use to post here i took a break for probably almost 1 year and a half, but we probably be posting here a bit more in the future.i am very concerned with my diet and try to eat raw fresh fruits and vegetables as much as i can. i do know that fruits raise your insulin levels and i was on divinecosmos earlier looking for that article about the instance evolution every couple hundred thousand years from the university of illinois i think, if anyone knows where to find it and help out, thanks. i was wonder about fruit because i was skimming through davids blog and found one about diet and how some fruits contain a lot of fructose,and is acidic was was wondering if i should avoid fruits. i have a juicer and like to make juices with strawberries, kiki, pineapples, apples, blueberries thing of that nature. should i cut it down??? another thing is brewers yeast which is popular nowadays....i don't use brewers yeast, but i know a lot of people who do. any tips would be appreciated thanks and good luck to all!!

evolving

02-09-2010, 11:05 PM

do not use soy products!

may i ask why? being a vegnoob, i am learning this whole thing, and i just found tasty veggie burgers (well... tasty as compared to veggie soup over and over and over...) and have been enjoying them...

Understanding

02-09-2010, 11:48 PM

evolving

02-10-2010, 10:15 AM

thanks for the info, i have been hearing about chia seed recently. i was concerned about fruit for awhile because i heard it can raise insulin levels....i usually make a fruit juice in the morning have a regular meal for dinner if i eat meat i try to eat grass fed meat. i use himalayan salt....i hope the one i have is not a knock off it is pink in color, after my meal i make a vegtable smoothie....my family tries to keep it organic as possible. i am interested in the chia seed and will probably pm you sometime this week after some research, thanks

"organic" can be smoke and mirrors costing more for something you may or may not be getting. it means, i believe , that the field where the crop is grown has to have been insecticide free for three years. it doesn't mean that the field right next to it isn't being sprayed three times a year and the wind does not carry the pesticides over...

billybobbutterball

02-10-2010, 10:15 AM

setting aside all the positive propaganda concerning it ........

in ancient chinese dynasties soy was only used as a food source during a famine. it has been found to be dangerously high in phytoestrogens, in another manner it suppresses the thyroid. soy's original usage was strictly crop rotation for enriching the soil.

according to "experts" the only safe soy is that which has been fermented -- a process which neutralizes the estrogen hormone mimicker's. for a number of years i used an isolated soy protein called "supro" in my smoothies...but it finally dawned on me -- after an half hour or so of downing the stuff -- my vision was compromised and my thinking somewhat clouded. i threw it out my goodly stock... i became sensitive to whey protein so i now use rice and pea protein isolates...good stuff.

two of the major whistle blowers ..sally fallon and mary enig -- have written extensively on the subject....below is a sample

http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm

a growing problem is that most of the soy now extant comes from genetically modified stock...a totally new danger, as you may know if you follow the evil doings of monsanto.

(i do use a 98% phosphatide soy lecithin supposedly derived from a non gmo source)

while i'm at it, i might as well mention that the newly popularized flax seed has some problems...it was never used as a food but as a source of fibre. it has two troublesome toxins the body must deal with...chia is a far superior source of oil. flax easily goes rancid...chia has enough antioxidants to avoid that problem.( it was once known as "the runner's food" -- centuries ago indian runners would go from the interior to the coast for trading...they would take along only a small pouch full of chia seed for nourishment,):cool:

i mentioned in an earlier post the health problem my wife and i had....a large part of our diet was soy in its various guises.:eek:

hope this helps!! best, bbb

may i ask why? being a vegnoob, i am learning this whole thing, and i just found tasty veggie burgers (well... tasty as compared to veggie soup over and over and over...) and have been enjoying them...

onething

02-10-2010, 01:30 PM

billybob,

what do you think about taking flax oil? flax oil with cottage cheese is one of the breast cancer treatments promoted in europe by a woman doctor-researcher whose name i cannot remember right now, but apparently people have a lot of success. i suppose one could just eat chia - i do have some and it is great in the way that it soaks up a bit of water and becomes quite soft in a few minutes and you don't have to cook it. you can add it to hot cereal for example, and i am sure there are other ways to eat it.

probably another reason it was convenient for those runners to take is that you just put a wad of chia in your mouth and let it become soft. very easy preparation!

billybobbutterball

02-10-2010, 02:53 PM

hi, onething

the german researcher you are thinking of was johanna budwig,

if my memory is correct she waged war against the use of margarine...which sterile substance she held responsible for many ills popping up...big business didn't cotton to her efforts and tried with some success to stamp her out.. it is an interesting fact that new variations on heart problems started cropping up right along with the use of the margarine as counterfeit butter.:mad:

from what i understand bottled flax oil is highly unstable. i used to put the refrigerated seeds in my coffee 'grinder' --spin the blades -- then dump the paste in my blender.

one downside of the flax oil cottage cheese therapy was that once discontinued there could be a hefty relapse back past ground zero.

incidentally, it seems today that claims are being advanced by researchers that vitamin d-3 seems to be a breast cancer preventive... my guess is that -- for the safety of women everywhere -- it will be withdrawn from the market place since it would be an unpatentable, dangerous pharmaceutical ...etc.:rolleyes:

the omega 3 is markedly superior to that of flax oil. also it has long-chain triglycerides that reportedly 'scrub' the arteries, and its protein and antioxidants are better also.

i played indian runner and kept some in my mouth while doing a turn on an exercise machine much like a cross country ski thing...the chia bolus kept my mouth moist and well hydrated....kept looking for the coastline, but it never showed...need to get a travelogue dvd to help me along....

billybobbutterfingers

billybob,

what do you think about taking flax oil? flax oil with cottage cheese is one of the breast cancer treatments promoted in europe by a woman doctor-researcher whose name i cannot remember right now, but apparently people have a lot of success. i suppose one could just eat chia - i do have some and it is great in the way that it soaks up a bit of water and becomes quite soft in a few minutes and you don't have to cook it. you can add it to hot cereal for example, and i am sure there are other ways to eat it.

probably another reason it was convenient for those runners to take is that you just put a wad of chia in your mouth and let it become soft. very easy preparation!

piermarie

02-10-2010, 03:31 PM

hi there, whatever we decide to eat is acording to our understanding and spiritual growth.
we all are free to follow whatever we like. i am sharing my way of eating and if it resounds with you that's fine, if not, that's fine too.

each of us will be drawn to whatever is similar to our understanding, like attracts like.

sometimes we do make changes as we come to a different understanding.
i changed from a meat eater to a non-meat eater.

the vegan diet is a noble way of eating that causes the least suffering and dealth to a sentinent being.

if you want to find a justifiable reason to keep eating animals i am sure you can find many reasons and they all will seem perfect to you.

those of us who follow the vegan diet likewise find justifiable reasons to continue with the vegan diet. you just follow whatever is right for you.

there are many vegans in the world not just me!
even yogananda was a vegan.
i believe organic soy is good to eat.

be at peace at whatever you decide to eat today.
pier marie

lvxseeker

02-10-2010, 05:30 PM

( incidentally, most of my foods come out of the freezer into the blender...if there is an extended power outage from a solar flare i will be a dead duck! )

hi bbb,

interesting to read your insights and knowledge into nutrition, which is quite a passion of mine (not surprising as i have a virgo sun, and virgo ascendant).

i have recently been introduced to chia seeds, their time seems to have arrived worldwide!!

i do wonder about your reliance on the freezer. i have heard that freezing foods, does tend to minimize their life force, and is best to rely on frozen food in moderation

mikeypb1

02-10-2010, 06:28 PM

i actually went on a 21 day water fast. this is something i did to clear my head, clean my system and to give myself a focus that did not revolve around food. at the end of the fast i tried raw vegan, then just vegan and for now i've settled on vegetarian. you put into words, very nicely my feelings about the negative or fear energy that must come with the eating of any meat, chicken fish or beef or as the tag line to my upcoming restaurant named "let's not meat" says go vegan or vegetarian 4 the health of it. needless to say i'm committed or is it that i should be committed, some of my friends think the latter. my true feelings are that are complete health starts with our vibratory state which is no doubt effected by eating the meat of living creatures that have been treated in such a shameful manner. the fact is after 55 years of eating meat, i can honestly say i've never felt better now that i'm a vegetarian. anyway, thanks for the post, it's the first post i've come across that i had anything to add to.

billybobbutterball

02-10-2010, 06:54 PM

hi, seeker....you are right about the nutritional drawback of freezing produce. but freezing prime stuff is better then watching it decompose into slime in the lower fridge. i have a so-called "energy" mug that i nestle in with them ...hoping it will do some quantum blessing.

another rational is that i only hit a grocery store about once or twice a month. i wait for a sale then grab as much as i can-- just noticed that asparagus is on sale for $1.25 a lb. that is a look-forward-to opportunity to lasso five or ten lbs of the green spheres; which amount will get me close to springtime.:d

(i've seen all sorts of outrageous prices for chia. if you are paying through the nose, so to speak, drop me a pm and i'll give you a quality site where it is close to $5.00 lb...i picked up 6 lbs to amortize the postage -- i like them..):cool:

thanks for the note...best, etc. bbbbbbbbbbb

hi bbb,

interesting to read your insights and knowledge into nutrition, which is quite a passion of mine (not surprising as i have a virgo sun, and virgo ascendant).

i have recently been introduced to chia seeds, their time seems to have arrived worldwide!!

i do wonder about your reliance on the freezer. i have heard that freezing foods, does tend to minimize their life force, and is best to rely on frozen food in moderation

clairead

02-10-2010, 07:16 PM

piermarie for this posting. i have watched all the postings with interest, looking at the various ideas, seeing where people are. i appreciate your tolerance as well as your firmness in your own path. i think that is the correct attitude.

i am a vegan, and have been so for about two years. for many years (18) i was a vegetarian, after having been into whole foods for about seven years before that. i was raised in a meat eating family, but my grandparents were followers of adele davis.

i went vegan for reasons of spirituality, ecology, and self-sufficiency. i buy extremely few packaged foods of any kind (some tofu being an exception - but i am learning how to make nigari tofu) and make my own bread and soy or oat dairy products, and 'cheese'.

one of the interesting 'side effects' of going vegan was that my lifelong allergies cleared up. i never thought that i was in any way lactose intolerant could eat vast quantities of 'white meats' - dairy and cheese - as i am an ab blood type of british isles and scandinavian stock. but once i went vegan - even eating gluten 'meats' my allergies are totally gone, along with asthma, arthitis (from ballet) and adrenal dysfunction - all autoimmune problems- which apparently, wanderers have.

i found david's diet very inspiring (i believe it is the one that was recommended for edgar, but he didn't follow it)

as for the spiritual side of things - zoom, baby! i am in the stratosphere.

so that's my testimony, my own experience. each must chosse according to his own guidance.

peace and love,
kell

hi there, whatever we decide to eat is acording to our understanding and spiritual growth.
we all are free to follow whatever we like. i am sharing my way of eating and if it resounds with you that's fine, if not, that's fine too.

each of us will be drawn to whatever is similar to our understanding, like attracts like.

sometimes we do make changes as we come to a different understanding.
i changed from a meat eater to a non-meat eater.

the vegan diet is a noble way of eating that causes the least suffering and dealth to a sentinent being.

if you want to find a justifiable reason to keep eating animals i am sure you can find many reasons and they all will seem perfect to you.

those of us who follow the vegan diet likewise find justifiable reasons to continue with the vegan diet. you just follow whatever is right for you.

there are many vegans in the world not just me!
even yogananda was a vegan.
i believe organic soy is good to eat.

be at peace at whatever you decide to eat today.
pier marie

Understanding

02-11-2010, 03:06 PM

currently i am on a 70 percent raw food diet. i do consume meat for proteins, i am still reseraching and up to any sort of modifaction if nessacry. right now i am using flax seed in my morning fruit shake i grind up the seeds in a coffee grinder mix it in my juices. i try to eat garlic as much as possible...this diet has me feeling less bloated i am passing stools at least 4-5 times a day my skin looks refreshed i have more neergy, no more naps around 3:30 p.m, plus i am looking even younger if that is possible.

billybobbutterball

02-13-2010, 09:42 AM

sorry, me again... beginning to feel like an old dog worrying away at a bone.

i was tracking down some food info and stumbled across very good summary of basic protein sources which examined the pros and cons of meats, soy, whey/dairy, egg and vegan. anyone taking nutrition seriously should find it most helpful.:cool:

http://www.nutribodyprotein.com/protein-types.php

i was glad to see that my use of rice and yellow pea isolates, along with chlorella and spirulina as my main protein sources seems a near optimum choice...

a couple of weeks ago i watched the old classic movie, "land of the pharaohs". backing up the main characters were thousands of egyptian extras. what struck me was that virtually all the soldiers looked like they came out of the same mold...slender and muscle-less to the point of being emaciated. :confused:

the dr's eades (of 'protein power' fame) did a study on findings concerning the state of health of ancient egyptians by forensic examination of their skeletal remains....the ancients --who existed on a basically vegetable diet (one that would be hailed as a healthy choice today) exhibited obvious signs of rampant tooth decay and skeletal malformation....which was taken as evidence of long-term protein deficiency.:eek:

if one is a vegetarian or vegan it would seem a smart choice to select the right balance of food stuff to pull it off successfully.

it has been mentioned that many holy men were veg/vegans.

true.

but so was adolph hitler -- who was a teetotaler and vegetarian; he was a physical and mental wreck when he suicided at 56... yogananda ( who authored the wonderful, "autobiography of a yogi", passed away all too soon at 59.

true, i may be a physical and mental wreck -- but i've lasted an extra two decades.:)

best bbb.

Amber

02-13-2010, 11:52 PM

transiten

02-14-2010, 07:40 AM

amber

fyi: if you eat fish you are not a vegetarian. if you eat cheese, egg and milk you are a lactovegetarian. if you exclude all this including meat of course you are a vegan.

transiten

rose star

02-15-2010, 09:34 AM

i believe in the vegetarian diet. i believe all animals are intelligent and have feelings. i know there are some people who can talk with animals now. they know what the animals are thinking and feeling. as we progress to the 4d, i believe with the added dna that we will have united, more of us will have this animal telepathy as well as the human telepathy.

what will happen when more people then can hear the animals thoughts and feelings and fears and joys? will this awaken people to their suffering, to their mass killing in the billions? what happens when people can hear and communicate with fish, shrimp, clams too? we often look down on these animals because we think they have no feelings or intelligence.but what happens when we find out they do and we can talk to them? some people can talk to plants and trees too.

what will happen when people can talk and hear the earth speak as well, and her wish to stop all killing on her planet earth?

when you have compassion in your heart and sympathy and can hear the suffering of animals we will then want to choose the vegatarian diet.

for me service to others means all others in this universe; humans, animals, plants, earth, and other life forms.

when our governments are free of negative people in charge of the corporations and laws, i believe we will see an abundance of new fresh organic fruit and vegatables on the market.
ever wonder why there are so few foods to eat in our stores?

i see the future earth as an abundance of veg produce, like 20 kinds of organic tomatos in all clolors and shapes such as yellow, orange, red, purple, black, stripped.
now they are called heirloom fruit and they are hard to find anyone growing or selling them.if you are lucky to find a farmers market and find them. not sold in the mass food stores.
how about 20 kinds of apples, and pears, and peppers, and everything else?
this abundance of fresh organic produce will help make it easier for people in our near future to be vegetarian.

the negative people in charge now have stopped this high vibration food from reaching the masses but when these people are gone and new service to other people are in charge,
i believe these kinds of food will be easy to find and eat and shared with all people on our planet. there will be no need to use the animals for food any longer.

docholiday

02-15-2010, 09:41 AM

but so was adolph hitler -- who was a teetotaler and vegetarian; he was a physical and mental wreck when he suicided at 56... yogananda ( who authored the wonderful, "autobiography of a yogi", passed away all too soon at 59

bbb

i respect your knowledge base - but my man - i have to call you out on the yogananda reference. i do not mean to sound condensending - rather my intent is to respectfully add clarity. to imply that somehow the master's death was in any way attributable to a being a vegan is ... well - grossly inaccurate. if he was a master, and by even casual study of his life one would have to conclude that he was, then by definition his consciousness was beyond 3d laws.

as i understand it - masters such as yogananda serve as a catalytic reflection intended to efficiently move others toward harvest.

re his death from wikipedia:
. in the days leading up to his death, he began hinting that it was time for him to leave the world.[16] on march 7, 1952, he attended a dinner for the visiting indian ambassador to the u.s., binay ranjan sen, and his wife at the biltmore hotel in los angeles."[18] according to two eyewitnesses—long-time disciples swami kriyananda and daya mata—as yogananda ended his speech, he read from his poem my india, concluding with the words "where ganges, woods, himalayan caves, and men dream god—i am hallowed; my body touched that sod".[17][19] at the very last words, he slid to the floor,[17] dead from a heart attack.[20] kriyananda wrote that yogananda had once stated in a lecture, "a heart attack is the easiest way to die. that is how i choose to die."[17] yogananda is buried at the forest lawn memorial park in glendale, california.

as reported in time magazine on august 4, 1952, harry t. rowe, los angeles mortuary director of the forest lawn memorial park cemetery in glendale, california where yogananda's body was embalmed,[28][29] stated in a notarized letter:

the absence of any visual signs of decay in the dead body of paramahansa yogananda offers the most extraordinary case in our experience.... no physical disintegration was visible in his body even twenty days after death.... no indication of mold was visible on his skin, and no visible drying up took place in the bodily tissues. this state of perfect preservation of a body is, so far as we know from mortuary annals, an unparalleled one.... no odor of decay emanated from his body at any time....

i respect that you that you were trying to make a point with the reference - but as a srf member i have to call you out regarding the one i call master..

peace

luke

billybobbutterball

02-15-2010, 03:15 PM

my dear doctor holiday...

you are absolutely right about paramahansa yogananda :o...and i was wondering if anyone was actually reading my postings by witnessing such a calumny going so long unchallenged. thank you!

i read the "autobiography of a yogi" about forty years, and i was most taken by his person, works and message. but i was taken aback a bit concerning his transformation from a slender, most handsome personage of his youth, unto an obviously overly rotund maturity.

so... it was a gambit -- too much a temptation to resist since saints and yogananda in particular were offered as examples of the spiritual and health giving virtues of the veggie path...( i take it you don't take any offense in my using adolph hitler as an example?)

ah! the spiritual life of a yogi! i tried and failed attempting it myself... i was a foundering student going on the gi bill to the university of colorado, boulder. nothing was going well. i had a horrible case of writer's block...one sentance an hour kind of thing...

i was starving...i had brought about fifteen lbs of hoffman's high protein powder to empower my meals. high protein powder in those days was merely ground soybeans; the taste was, ugh! ghastly! ( for years afterwards the slightest thought of it caused my memory to relieve the horrible taste and smell. of that so overly gross putridity... it met its well deserved fate in filling up the trash can -- better that than my stomach!)

i needed to save money so i could eat once again...my camel cigarette smoking had to go!

i was reading patanjali's little book on yoga sudra's when the impulse came to me...i slung on my pack, rolled up the army surplus sleeping bag, then hitched a ride up clear creek canyon into the front range of the rocky mountains....i took no cigarettes and planned to do yogi stuff in the primeval wilderness...

the first night was interrupted by the sound of a timber rattlesnake slithering across my hooded bag...the frightening sound became louder and louder until i could stand it no longer! desperate, i grasped for the handle of my razor sharp machete stuck in the bole of a lone pine just behind my head....i missed! however, the snake had escaped ... but after thinking it over i discovered the sound was made by my anxious eyelashes flittering across the inside of the closed bag.

well, one can never be too careful. that morning i decided to go exploring up the castellated rocky ridge of a mountain across the valley...i got high-up when dark clouds arrived and dampness came in dribbles...i kept climbing, but wondered about a tickling sensation in my scalp... lighting flashed far away on a sister peak soon followed by a crack of doom!.:eek:.i got the heck out of there -- somehow i safely stumbled my way down a slippery grass slope.

the next day i went exploring a creek. i found an old abandoned mine shack. i went inside, saw a part of the flooring sticking up. i pulled up the board and uncovered a virtual treasure! there it was! a gift from above! a cigarette!! how could i turn it down? i put it to my trembling lips and struck a match. but as soon as the flame encountered the cig. there came a sudden flash as the fire devoured the paper tube in one tremendous flare of instant consumption. not a wisp of smoke reached my needy lungs.

i packed up my gear and hiked down to st mary's glacier road. i got a lift, i asked the driver if he had a spare cigarette...any brand would do....i failed that test...but twenty years later i ran into yogananda.:)

i aplogize! bbb:)

docholiday

02-15-2010, 06:16 PM

read the "autobiography of a yogi" about forty years, and i was most taken by his person, works and message. but i was taken aback a bit concerning his transformation from a slender, most handsome personage of his youth, unto an obviously overly rotund maturity.

so... it was a gambit -- too much a temptation to resist since saints and yogananda in particular were offered as examples of the spiritual and health giving virtues of the veggie path...( i take it you don't take any offense in my using adolph hitler as an example?)

hello bbb

in response to the above comments:

re: yogananda's body transformation from a very thin youth to a full figured adult

. seeing as you have read his classic autobiography then what is to follow will simply be a humble reminder:):
yogananda's guru, swami sri yuketeshwar, decided that yogananda's thin build did not match his future mission - so he simply bestowed upon him the blessing of a fuller figure in order to enhance the completion of his mission in the west. in other words, his body was not the result of being unable to control sensual appetites (a true oxymoron when discussing masters) but was literally morphed into the full figure in a matter of a few weeks.

an excerpt from the aboy...

one afternoon during my early months at the ashram, found sri yukteswar’s eyes fixed on me piercingly.

“you are too thin, mukunda.”

his remark struck a sensitive point. that my sunken eyes and emaciated appearance were far from my liking was testified to by rows of tonics in my room at calcutta. nothing availed; chronic dyspepsia had pursued me since childhood. my despair reached an occasional zenith when i asked myself if it were worth-while to carry on this life with a body so unsound.

“medicines have limitations; the creative life-force has none. believe that: you shall be well and strong.”

sri yukteswar’s words aroused a conviction of personally-applicable truth which no other healer—and i had tried many!—had been able to summon within me.

day by day, behold! i waxed. two weeks after master’s hidden blessing, i had accumulated the invigorating weight which eluded me in the past. my persistent stomach ailments vanished with a lifelong permanency.

in regards to hitler's vegetarianism being a component of his senility and early death: i did not respond secondary to not having a strong knowledge base regarding his life - but truth be told - i don't find the hitler reference offensive - but i do find it equally absurd :).

as i understand it, hitler was committed to the service to self path and was a deeply disturbed and mentally ill human being - whose psychosis only intensified as the war progressed - culminating in his suicide.

bbb, i do not mean to challenge you - but do you really think vegetarianism played any part in his death or psychosis? also how many key positive historical vegetarian icons do you think i could name?

( by the way and perhaps more importantly - cwg points out that the hitler experience is crucial to understanding the cosmology of the universe. ndw states - the real horror of the hitler holocaust was not that hitler came along - but that so many went along. he follows this up with the most controversial statement is his epic trilogy by saying: hitler went to heaven - now there is conversation starter :). (of course the loo goes into greater detail on the afterlife of the hitler soul)

peace my friend

luke
http://www.ananda.org/autobiography/images/friends_and_kebalananda.jpg
http://www.ananda.org/autobiography/images/giri_bala.jpg

docholiday

02-15-2010, 09:10 PM

i actually went on a 21 day water fast.

hello mikeypb1

wow! you actually did that - i must say that is incredible!!!! could you elaborate on you experience? and what were your feelings towards the end? did you work during this time? did you do this at home or a retreat?

peace luke

billybobbutterball

02-16-2010, 12:26 AM

seems that billy bob has got himself all turned around by being painted as a rabid, anti- veggie/vegan foe. truth is -- except for a couple of raw eggs and 1/3rd lb of grass-raised bison a week -- (the vegetarian george bernard shaw took liver capsules...excusing his lapse by counting it medicine) and counting my eggs and bison as medicine i'm about the most veggie guy on my block!...i seldom eat any grains/bread...and except for carrots i don't eat root vegetables. my staples are raw bok choy, asparagus, cauliflower, broccoli, brussels sprouts.

i use a couple of organic apples a day, some blueberries, cranberries, and lemon. my raw protein is enzymatic-ally processed from brown rice and yellow peas, with those two i add a special stabilized super rice bran along with chlorella and spirulina. i take a variety of supplements to cover base....among them is the methyl form of vitamin b-12 ....which next to certain minerals is the most critical missing nutrient in most veggie/vegetarian's diet.

if you are inclined to attempt a vegan lifestyle you need to check out and study the advice available on the following link.

http://www.drbass.com/

(some samples out of many from dr. bass's vast research.)

super nutrition - vegetarian
three generations of vegetarian hygienists
these children, the skeletal development wasn't right, the dental arches were not well-formed, teeth came in crowded - click here

in search of the ultimate diet
i put a group of mice on a fruitarian diet. but they didn't seem to be eating very much fruit, and they certainly weren't crazy about it - after a short period of time the mice became cannibilistic...fruitarians beware!

the ideal 100% raw diet

my (dr. bass) aim here was to try to find a diet of 100% raw foods that mice and equally humans could live on, with all the factors needed for excellent health - etc.

snip

concerning yogananda... non-ashram sources classified him as obese plus suffering from longstanding health issues. but that could be mere slander or sour grapes. i'll give him a pass....note: becoming fat is not always a simple issue of calories. all of my life i have had to battle yo-yo-ing weight. ten years ago strategies i had used in the past stopped working and i ballooned up to 260lbs.:eek: i made some radical changes and dropped 90lbs. but now, once again, i have to take off fat....but this time a mere 15 or 20 lbs ( gained this while sitting around watching a broken ankle heal and indulging in seemingly innocent amounts of comfort food.:o)

about adolph hitler and his vegetarianism. according to some retro-analysis he suffered from symptoms resembling those often attending long-term deficiency of b-12 ,

symptoms and damage from deficiency

main article: vitamin b12 deficiency
vitamin b12 deficiency can potentially cause severe and irreversible damage, especially to the brain and nervous system. at levels only slightly lower than normal, a range of symptoms such as fatigue, depression, and poor memory may be experienced.[25] however, these symptoms by themselves are too nonspecific to diagnose deficiency of the vitamin.

vitamin b12 deficiency can also cause symptoms of mania and psychosis.[26][27]

vitamin b12 deficiency has the following pathomorphology and symptoms:[28]

pathomorphology includes: a spongiform state of neural tissue along with edema of fibers and deficiency of tissue. the myelin decays, along with axial fiber. in later phases, fibric sclerosis of nervous tissues occurs. those changes apply to dorsal parts of the spinal cord, and to pyramidal tracts in lateral cords. the pathophysiologic state of the spinal cord is called subacute combined degeneration of spinal cord.

in the brain itself, changes are less severe: they occur as small sources of nervous fibers decay and accumulation of astrocytes, usually subcortically located, an also round hemorrhages with a torus of glial cells. pathological changes can be noticed as well in the posterior roots of the cord and, to lesser extent, in peripheral nerves.

snip

hey! a couple of apples a day, ok...but soy? better stay far away!:rolleyes: just teasing, but do google researchers fallon and enig

declaring a one-sided truce i'm throwing in the diet towel....best, etc...bbb:d

rose star

02-16-2010, 10:19 AM

i'm sharing this for those who are looking for cow milk subsitute.

i have a soy milk maker using organic whole soy beans.
i think it is better to make it myself because i know what i put in to it.
i bought it on line, there are a few kinds of machines that heat the soy and squeeze out the milk.
cows milk is not for humans.

i also like fresh almond milk.
i use almonds imported from spain because i found out the california almonds are now treated with radiation.

i use a good blender and one cup almonds with 3 cups filter walter.

then add dates or organic sugar, or some coconut oil.
i do not use white sugar because it has animals bones in it to bleach it white,

then can filter the almond milk with cheese cloth. this is very good.
there are many web search to learn how to make almond milk.

store milks in glass mason jars. some plastic jars are not food safe.
these milks can be used in baking too.

do no eat or use eggs in baking
.
they are very low vibration and have a life force in them, so it is not good to eat for us. learn to find replacement for eggs.

after awile when you are free from eggs and smell them cooking you will get sick and wonder how you ever ate them.
i found very good organic vege butter and vege cheese when looking for essentails for vegans, i am sure you can find it too.

to eat only plant base foods makes me very healthy and happy.

onething

02-16-2010, 06:58 PM

oh heck i just thought i would weigh in here and let y'all know that i try to eat two or three raw eggs a week (farm raised of course) washed down with raw milk and vanilla and banana (all raw!) and also grass fed beef. beef is my soul food. non-red meat is good but gets tiresome. soon as i can get the truck off the driveway (snow) i'm going to pick up a half a lamb right from the farmer.

i heard about this guy who almost killed himself at the age of six by drinking lye and burned this throat and esophagus so badly that he could only ever drink liquids. after a time, he was doing poorly, until someone told him to drink raw milk. he drank almost nothing but raw cow's milk from then on, and lived in good health to a ripe age.

i try to avoid bread, pasta and white potatoes for the most part. corn too. all things corn. corn is very gmo, and tends to have fungus. all peanuts except valencia are also very prone to fungus. some people think fungus is the real culprit in cancer.

the almond milk recipe sounds quite good. if i were to ever recommend a milk substitute that would be it. as for soy, i'd feed it to the pigs, but the poor things never did anything to deserve it.

just kidding. maybe they can digest it. i once decided to make some real good home baked beans. i found some beans left by some kids who lived in my house a while. i soaked them, but for some odd reason they had to be soaked way longer than i expected. and they took like three days to cook. i mean it. they ended up tasting great but i always got a bellyache after. finally, someone asked me to describe the beans and the long cooking time, and told me they were soybeans.

hey, let me recommend a good book that is neutral on the veggie topic but incredibly informative. it's called [please pm for title]. after you read it, you'll soak your nuts. which taste better, too. if you soak walnuts, a bitter yellow water comes out. that's the enzyme inhibitors, of which grains, nuts and seeds are full.

transiten

02-16-2010, 10:21 PM

hi

corn has been the main source of nutrition for the native americans at least in south america, they even worshipped the corngod....do you mean they got funghus and cancer:confused:

transiten

piermarie

02-17-2010, 09:23 AM

i follow the vegatarian vegan diet because it is non-violent.

meat eating means killing animals.
i prefer to not kill anything if possible.

i take myself out of the killing animal cycle.

i also try to look at my thoughts to see if they are non-violent towards any beings.

even if someone eats vegatarian but has other violent thoughts and actions to kill people or other animals they are in the negative killing realm.

i try to look at the whole.
for instance the dalai lama's home kitchen is vegatarian and all his thoughts and beliefs all go along the lines of non-violent actions.

vegan diet is part of the whole picture towards non-violent.
vegan diet is a peaceful way to eat that is healthy.

the vegan diet is easy to do as well, just keep blood off your plate.
choose plant based foods to eat. i do.

Kris

02-17-2010, 10:00 AM

i follow the vegatarian vegan diet because it is non-violent.

meat eating means killing animals.
i prefer to not kill anything if possible.
choose plant based foods to eat. i do.

piermarie:

aren't plants alive as well? if you prefer not to kill anything, then how can you eat plant based foods :confused:

david often talks about cleve backster's experiement with plants where backster claimed to have discovered that a polygraph instrument attached to a plant leaf registered a change in electrical resistance when the plant was harmed or even threatened with harm. he also felt that plants perceived human intentions and that other human thoughts and emotions caused reactions in plants that could be recorded by a polygraph instrument.

it is your choice how you eat and i agree that real live foods, rather than processed, are definately the way to go. but is killing a plant more peaceful than killing an animal if the plant feels it as well?

you have a right to your opinion, of course, as does everybody, but a vegan diet is not healthy for everybody and so people who do need high amounts of protein should not be made to feel like murderers for getting their protein from animals.

i think it is very important to always check with your doctor before changing your diet radically as well.:)

capt.libra

02-17-2010, 10:51 AM

in 3d we are mearly a part of the food chain. i find most of the bantering humorous but lets see...do you own leather shoes, belts, purses? what are your car seats made of? do you recycle? where does it all go? yep we're still in 3d, a duality of existance. frankly i'm looking forward to living on prana (sun light).

btw, i saw a good movie about an autistic girl who redesigned the cattle industry to be more humane. her name is temple grandin, also the title of the movie. i found it enlightening.

billybobbutterball

02-17-2010, 11:59 AM

in 3d we are merely a part of the food chain. i find most of the bantering humorous but lets see...do you own leather shoes, belts, purses? what are your car seats made of? do you recycle? where does it all go? yep we're still in 3d, a duality of existence. frankly i'm looking forward to living on prana (sun light).

btw, i saw a good movie about an autistic girl who redesigned the cattle industry to be more humane. her name is temple grandin, also the title of the movie. i found it enlightening.

hi, capt

in response to the first part of your post...my car seats are made of duck tape.:o

as to the second...

i picked up the interview of temple grandin on public service radio...i was figuratively blown away.

at age 4 the family doc badly advised her parents to put her in an institution...they wisely refused..well, she did end up in an institution anyway ... that being the colorado state university of agriculture -- with temple on board being hailed as the world's most renowned professor of animal whatsoevers!.:d

wonderful, touching, amazing, true story. best, bbb

billybobbutterball

02-17-2010, 12:32 PM

hi

corn has been the main source of nutrition for the native americans at least in south america, they even worshipped the corngod....do you mean they got funghus and cancer:confused:

transiten

yes indead, our dearest swedish nightengale....

corn is not recommended by those who know about such things since they are too apt to be carrying all sorts of tasty, but nasty, fungus tagalongs. peanuts from certain areas are considered a danger because of fungus contamination and humid storage conditions. (variety of aspergillus?) sp? :eek:

there is some question about how long this spore carrying has been going on -- or if it is possible to untaint the seed supply...then there are the gmo modifications to corn that have been introduced -- which brings us to another type of horror story.. being this ninja assassin frankincorn is used in feedlots..and fish farms..right along with the treacherous, gender-state-modification-inducer, soy...:eek:

what a mess!..(bestest advice? ..an oganic apple a day, throw the (organic or othewise) soy away>>! ):cool:

ps. i always knew in my heart that reese's peanut butter cups were too good to be true.

best, intentions, farmer, billybobbutterball

ps., for doubters, please do some serious googling

onething

02-17-2010, 12:46 PM

yes, there is evidence that when hunter-gatherer or horticultural-herder peoples settled down and ate too many grains and lost the variety in their diets, their stature decreased and diseases increased. so it might be that the native americans had less than optimal health. certainly they have very small stature.

also, it is interesting to note that the hunter gatherer peoples generally love and respect animals, whereas farmers got used to penning them up and enslaving them to hard labor.

it is best to always be compassionate toward animals, and that is why i avoid factory farmed produce of all sorts.

i find a lot of evidence that vegans don't have the best health and also, if a diet is treacherous such as not providing b12, then why should we assume it is in line with nature? also it is a clue that remaining on a vegan or even vegetarian diet is very hard, and they are always making frankenfoods that taste like meat...why is that? it is nearly impossible to get adequate vitamin a as well, and beta carotene is not vitamin a. the body may convert it but not reliably enough.

i find it sad, but true, that our whole ecosystem here is one of the constant morphing of one thing into another, by eating. everything eats everything. the balance of nature is set up that way here. the real question is, not what do we want or wish, but is the human body designed to thrive on a vegan diet? so far, my research says no.

i would like to be in a situation where this was not so.
.
tofu may be here to stay, but you should only eat it if it has been processed the slow old-fashioned way, by fermentation, which very few manufacturers are willing to do.

as for plants, a great book is the secret life of plants and it is just an amazing, spiritually uplifting book with all the research david mentions and more.

coneyisland

02-17-2010, 02:19 PM

i've been vegan for about 6 months now. for me it was a very long progression over the past 20 years. back and forth between eating meat or not, eating dairy or not. vegetarian for a year, then meat eating for 3 years...back to veggie. now i'm determined to stick to veganism for my health, for the animals, for the planet.

i firmly believe that we should not enslave, slaughter and eat the inhabitants of the planet. what would spock think of slaughter houses? he'd be shocked, i'm sure.

animals are a higher type of being than plants, and feel pain, anger, fear, etc. when we make them live through the awful lives of being kept in factory farms, and then slaughtered the horrible way they are, we take those massively negative feelings into our bodies.

watch meet your meat, and also earthlings.

there's so much that we need to move away from on this planet, everything is so negatively based here. anything we can do to help the current situation is a good thing. eat less meat, tread more lightly on the planet, be nice to your neighbor. it will take a long time to undo this mess, but if we all pitch in, our planet will become nicer every day!

billybobbutterball

02-18-2010, 10:11 AM

dear coneyisland ...are you venting a bit of anti-plant bigotry below?

----- seeing that the luminous ra evolved from vegetation, namely 'trees'.:p

animals are a higher type of being than plants, and feel pain, anger, fear, etc. .

sorta slow here this morning and i couldn't stop myself...anyway, latwii made me do it. :eek:

.apologies...etc. bbb

Amber

02-18-2010, 04:00 PM

i was a vegetarian for about eight years, no meat, no milk, but eggs and fish were okay. i felt cleansed, mentally alert, but i needed more protein. nowadays i do not eat red meat, and have not for about nine years. even though i believe in a balanced diet, my diet lacks enough fresh fruit. organic foods are the way to go; avoid genetically modified foods. unfortunately, most corn is gm and also soy!
i agree with those posting that one's intention determines how to eat.
i am an animal lover who raises small animals. these little ones have much sensitivity. they form relationships and they communicate. what must the larger animals feel?

amber

fyi: if you eat fish you are not a vegetarian. if you eat cheese, egg and milk you are a lactovegetarian. if you exclude all this including meat of course you are a vegan.

transiten

thanks for that reminder. during my veggie years i did not eat fish, as i later recalled. sorry for the confusion. i started eating fish after about eight years, so do not wish to discount the reason for my veggie-day wellbeing. i suppose all the hype about omega 3 persuaded my fish eating.

evolving

02-20-2010, 09:31 AM

life is life, no matter whether it is an elephant, horse, man, dog, cat, beetle... the only difference is the one we create in our minds for our own selfish purposes.

Vaughn

02-27-2010, 08:25 AM

i eat vegan just for many reasons, least of which is health and vitality. i just feel lighter, happier, healthy, more energy.
when i eat meat i don't feel as well.
i eat organic, unprocessed as much as possible, raw veggies, lots of fruits and i do take some supplements even.

OatmealLoverxx

03-11-2010, 04:43 PM

billybobbutterball

03-11-2010, 07:58 PM

looking to start fasting asap. . since this is my first time i'd like to avoid fasting on water alone (i heard this can lead to severe headaches / nausea due to all the poisons being released from your body.) does anyone know of any good detox plans along with how long i should do it for - keeping in mind this is my first time and i plan on working my way up slowly . . also i have several amalgam mercury fillings, would i be in any danger of the mercury leaching out? or should i wait until i have the mercury removed?

i'm no expert on fasting.....been years since i went on a 7 day venture. so you may get better advice in coming posts.

most of the toxins involved come about from the fast itself...(.toxic clinkers from the metabolism of fat and muscle.) make sure you have good water, and just because it comes in a bottle is no guarantee of its purity.

take a glass of water before going to sleep, take a glass first thing on waking. put some fresh lemon juice in the water --- especially in the morn. one of the best detoxers is chlorella.... cilantro is another good chelator.... both great sources of chlorophyll. if you have a blender i would suggest that you whip up some organic lettuce drinks. or even half an apple..give something to help clear out the colon. there are some special teas that would be helpful, check your local health food emporium.

don't worry about the mercury...there will be more of a danger during their removal.

if i were you i would get hold of some chia seed....make some chia gel. the insoluble and soluble fibers work great in cleaning the colon...the long chain triglycerides clean out the arteries. they are a great source of energy and omega 3. chia was known as "the runners food" -- indian runners would take a small pouch as their only nourishment traveling to and fro from the interior to the south american coast for trade,,,,

hope some of this helps....don't try to set any records with your fast...there is a point of diminishing returns.

i assume your 'doctor' etc. gives you the okay?

best, billybob:)

docholiday

03-12-2010, 06:02 PM

originally posted by oatmealloverxx

looking to start fasting asap. . since this is my first time i'd like to avoid fasting on water alone (i heard this can lead to severe headaches / nausea due to all the poisons being released from your body.) does anyone know of any good detox plans along with how long i should do it for - keeping in mind this is my first time and i plan on working my way up slowly . . also i have several amalgam mercury fillings, would i be in any danger of the mercury leaching out? or should i wait until i have the mercury removed?

hello oatmeal lover

i have some experience in this area and offer the following:
in regards to your dental almalgams: it is my contention that your are at no greater risk for mercury toxicity during a short (3-5 day) fast then you would be otherwise - and i support your descision to have them removed by a reputable biological dentist. researching the work of dr. hal huggins dds on this topic may prove helpful.

and now some bullet points on fasting

• length of fast:
• benefits do not kick in until the third day--the first three days are the hardest with hunger, bad breath, headaches, etc. on the third day the hunger pains go away, energy rises, glow to the skin occurs. basically patient should fast until they feel hungry again (after day three). patient can be chilly with ketosis.
• out patient fasting should be 3-14 days mostly.
• types of fasting:
• water--only water. herb teas allowed.
• juice fasting--water, herb tea, a little fruit and vegie juice a day. perhaps 6 oz of each once or twice a day. not jugs of juice.
• n. walker suggests fruits juice for 3-4 days followed by vegetable juice and eating raw vegetables
• eating fasts: only eating brown and vegies (for example).

• fasting
• have your health and blood reports evaluated before initiating fast.
• choose to do daily enemas or not to do enemas--i recommend to do them.
• •
fasting protocol
• activities to do while fasting:
• rest and skin brushing
• a little stroll outside and reading
• meditation and/or reading and/or education
• protocol for a short fast
• spend 2-3 days before the fast eating only brown rice, veggies, fruits, to begin cleansing the system. use stewed prunes or some laxatives to make sure the colon is purged.
• this protocol is adapted from “how to stay slim, healthy and young with juice fasting” by paavo airola.

• fasting protocol 2
• upon arising: enema
• can drink water as you wish during the day: chlorine free--try to do half body weight in ounces.
• after enema: dry brush massage, followed by hot shower (ending with cold).
• 9 a.m.: cup (8 oz) of herb tea--warm, not hot. especially good are peppermint, chamomile, rose hips, ginger, but any herb, no caffeine tea is fine.
• 11 a.m.: a glass of fresh fruit juice, diluted 50:50 with water.
• 11 a.m.-1 p.m.: walk or mild exercise, or sunbathing, if weather permits.
• 1:30-4:00 p.m.: rest
• 4 p.m.: cup of herb tea
• 4:15-7:00 p.m.: walk, mild exercise, massage. \
• 7:00 p.m.: glass of diluted veggie or fruit juice, or cup of veggie broth.

• fasting protocol
• breaking the fast: do not overeat!!
• takes at least 2 days to get to eating normally from a 3-4 day fast and at least 4 days from a 7 day fast
• first day, eat one whole apple in the am, and a very small bowl of steamed veggies or raw beggie salad at lunch, in addition to the usual juice and broth menu.
• second day, soaked prunes or figs for breakfast. small bowl of fresh veggie salad for lunch. veggie soup at dinner. two apples eaten between meals. all this in addition to the usual juice and broth menu.

for more in depth information on the subject of fasting, i highly recommend the work of - dr. gabriel cousins md - he uses medicinal fasing as his primary modality in successfully treating all types of chronic disease - his masterful combination of conventional medicine, naturopathy, jewish and hindu mysticism is unparalleled.

oh and please let us know of your experience:)

blessings luke

Zenith

03-13-2010, 06:28 AM

just a reminder:)

the illusory food we put in our illusory bodies on this illusory planet within this
illusory universe, is illusory.

peace

billybobbutterball

03-13-2010, 07:47 PM

"it is not the place nor the condition, but the mind alone that can make anyone happy or miserable." *

however, be that as may...;)

"life can be defined as the result of the exchanges we make with the whole of nature. life is made up only of exchanges. the most obvious expressions of this are eating and breathing - if these exchanges are prevented from taking place, weakness, illness and death will follow. but the exchanges we need in order to live are not limited to eating and breathing. or, to be more precise, they also consist in eating and breathing in all the different regions of the universe, so that our subtle bodies - the etheric, astral, mental, causal, buddhic and atmic bodies - are also nourished. when you understand how you can find food in the universe to suit your various bodies, your life will feel like an immense symphony. but you must first start by re-establishing communications, so that the currents of energy can circulate between you and the universe, and this can only be achieved by working with thought. "

..... omraam mikhaël aïvanhov

* roger l'estrange

best!.:) bbb

billybobbutterball

03-14-2010, 02:23 PM

is there a proposed optimized schedule for daily water intake?

might be!

recent email ...sorry, pretty pictures not included.

drinking water at the correct time
maximizes its effectiveness on the human body::cool:

2 glasses of water after waking up - helps activate internal organs

1 glass of water 30 minutes before a meal - helps digestion

1 glass of water before taking a bath - helps lower blood pressure

1 glass of water before going to bed - avoids stroke or heart attack

y'all drink up now, hear! billybobbobbledbottle:)

(note: billybob ain't really no red-neck...he just likes to purtend is all :p)

OatmealLoverxx

03-14-2010, 07:15 PM

thanks everyone for taking the time out to respond ! i'll definitely be putting all the information to good use and will be doing further research into the workings of dr. gabriel cousins md and dr. hal huggins dds. i'm hoping to soon be able to nourish my subtle bodies (the etheric, astral, mental etc.) as well but figure i first must begin with my physical body. i am pretty healthy as it is. .so it's been years since i've seen a "doctor", most of them are criminals in my eyes so i try to avoid them as much as i can. therefore, i have not even consulted a doctor about my plans for fasting. although i get daily exercise and eat a 60% raw (100% organic) diet, i still have very low energy & find it hard to train my thoughts into positive ones. i often think very negatively of myself, am very shy, and possess few to no real friendships. i long for compassion and love in my life . and because i communicate so little with other people i find myself to be depressed often. but thanks everyone for the advice and i'll definitely let ya'll know how it goes.

:o

Mozart

03-14-2010, 10:32 PM

my nutrition style is a slightly-bit different than others, to wit:

1) road kill -- great meat there and thank god for a-1 sauce! gotta have a case of a-1 for those road kills, especially skunks, but good meat, just the same.

2) dumpster-diving food -- tons of pizza are thrown away; tons of food that are still edible in many forms that people throw away, etc -- all for free... you just need a good pair of gloves, a long coat with long sleeves, like a doctor's lab coat, a long pole with a hook on it and a pair of extended grabbers. with that equipment, you'll never go hungry.

3) with the cash-back $ coming from the bottles and cans from the dumpsters -- if you are lucky to be living in a state that has those cash-back stuff -- you can feed yourself silly with the $40 to $100 a day or even more that you can make just from snagging the cash-back dumpster-diving stuff.

4) food bank food -- you can load up on tons of free food from the food banks.

i'm jok'n, y'all... i don't eat that way, but believe it or not, there are people out there that eat exactly as described above. wild!

docholiday

03-15-2010, 03:24 AM

i
often think very negatively of myself, am very shy, and possess few to no real friendships. i long for compassion and love in my life

hello

i admire your transparency and can profoundly emphathise with your current state of lonliness. perhaps, i could advise a technique from cwg which i have found to be successful when sincerely applied. the exercise is simply, give to another that which you desire for yourself. i have discovered that when i give to another i begin to realize (that is - make real) that i must have that which i gave away. so by sincerely giving to another - you will also be giving to yourself - for weareallone (we are all one).

by the way, should you decide to take me up on this exercise (given the state of the world today) i am sure it will not be too hard to find someone in need of a little friendship, love and compassion:). be the source

peace my friend

luke

ps: thanks for letting us know of your experience with the short fast

Creativemerger

03-16-2010, 08:49 PM

the most "awakening" experiences and that includes visions happened when i was consuming a lot of raw animal foods especially raw milk and raw butter. could be because they both contain properties that help to decalcify your pineal gland.

Psion 3-K

04-02-2010, 02:14 PM

you should check out the blood type diet. the blood type diet states that every blood type has certain foods it is best suited fot. i am type a- which is 'agrarian' blood. that means i am best suited to digest mainly vegetables and things of that nature. i can eat fish as far as meat goes, but any red meat will literally clog up my blood. this is due to the fact that type as have low levels of stomach acid which leads to them improperly digesting meats.

type o blood stands for the original type which means you can eat a lot of meat and process it very efficiently. these people have very strong and plentiful stomach acid. this may be an evolutionary answer to your ethical question but i wouldn't worry about it either way, really. animals do have consciousnesses and they should be respected of course. that's why if you do eat meat, the best way you can do so respectfully is to buy organic meats and look for the kind which was treated as humanely as possible.

i personally adhere to a strict gluten free diet because of allergies and as well do not eat any fast food and probably less than 3% of anything i eat is significantly processed. i shouldn't eat meat because of my blood type but i do anyways. then when i have my blood examined under the microscope i can very easily see the results; it's a condition call rouleau. it isn't a major risk, but it also doesn't help you function. because of my diet, which is also largely organic, i find that my head is normally very clear and i can easily maintain a high level of awareness. relatively speaking, anyways.

i hope this helps!

billybobbutterball

04-02-2010, 06:18 PM

hi, all

i think the blood type diet info can be of help...but the rules aren't cast in concrete...each
individual is, well, individual.

a friend of mine is interested in dowsing for hidden food intolerances threatening her volunteer 'patients'...generally the villain turns out to be a particular combination of two innocuous seeming foods that in combination are quite disruptive to certain one's health...in my case she tells me that my particular nemesis is (cane/beet) sugar and fruit...so, no matter how healthy your diet might look on paper there can be a pair of hidden clinker lurking to get ya!

i'm the rare type ab so i should be able to handle milk products such as whey protein....but i can't.....whey is a great muscle-builder in combination with anaerobic exercise, so i keep forgetting and trying it once again every couple of years...after a few weeks i start hacking and coughing like i have a cold or flue ---after a couple of months it finally it dawns on me what is happening...i throw the stuff out and in a few days --one side or the other of a week -- i miraculously recover.

i'm supposed to be able to eat turkey and some fish...but i don't like turkey and as far as fish are concerned, forget it! (seems that 80% of the fish coming into the usa is from asia and it is estimated that 80% of that is filthy, diseased, even contaminated by being raised in sewage --and thus inflicted with assorted nasty toxins. of course all that makes it in various ways unfit for safe consumption by man or beast. :eek:the main clue is that those who know don't touch it.:cool:

what does one do for protein? in main i use isolated pea protein along with isolated rice protein extracted from sprouted organic brown rice (higher protein efficiency than meat!)

all that powdered stuff above goes into my fabulous vm blender along with gifted raw eggs from deliriously happy cage-free chickens. (plus assorted secret ingredients to make it barely pass a lenient test taste:p)

whatever, but keep this is mind: jesus once remarked that much more important than what goes into one's mouth is what comes out of it!

best, etc. billybob:)

clairead

04-04-2010, 11:08 AM

bbb, i am an ab too, and never realised until i became a vegan that i had a problem with whey. wot, me? my ancestors ate (eat) more dairy that anybody on the planet. but the difference was phenomenal. so we have to be aware of our own bodies when considering the recommendations of the blood type diet (or indeed any diet)

speaking of jesus, it is said that the blood from the shroud of turin, the blood on that magical host, and the stains on 'veronica's napkin' are all from an ab- man, so you are in good company ;)

cheerio,
kelly

billybobbutterball

04-04-2010, 12:53 PM

hi kelly clair

i gotta confess that when pete peterson mentioned that a small percentage of humanity
had a dna connection with aliens i rushed to the mirror to see what my ears looked like :p
...nothing to be discovered there, but when i screwed up my face in a grimace i could
see a bit of klingon looking back and scowling at me....:eek:.

best, bbb :)

bbb, i am an ab too, and never realised until i became a vegan that i had a problem with whey. wot, me? my ancestors ate (eat) more dairy that anybody on the planet. but the difference was phenomenal. so we have to be aware of our own bodies when considering the recommendations of the blood type diet (or indeed any diet)

speaking of jesus, it is said that the blood from the shroud of turin, the blood on that magical host, and the stains on 'veronica's napkin' are all from an ab- man, so you are in good company ;)

cheerio,
kelly

clairead

04-04-2010, 07:22 PM

pardon- to the mods, i know this is ot, but-

that would be those [of us] who were preciously responsible for seeding planets elsewhere [pleiades, andromeda, etc]- and then it was decided that it would be 'better' for us to incarnate as well, so as to avoid the complaints of being 'overlords'...

and again we say 'oh man, we volunteered for this gig.... seemed like a good idea at the time...'
:rolleyes:
peace and love,
kelly

hi kelly clair

i gotta confess that when pete peterson mentioned that a small percentage of humanity
had a dna connection with aliens
best, bbb :)

_X_

04-04-2010, 09:09 PM

hay guys

informative talk on the consequences of consuming animal products--
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1549763175867837730&hl=en#

my interpretation is, for spiritual/moral/health reasons you would do good by excusing yourself from the food chain... it's not that plants aren't life, but they are a different kind of life and our bodies happen to be equipped to metabolize them best. and keeping animals around hoping to harvest fluids or body parts from... that is a bizarre kind of relationship you have going on there, if you think about it, but to each their own, baby...

i think the human biology and the diet thing goes hand in hand with the 3rd density polarity choice we're here to make... of course i guess you could be sto and be an omnivore, but i think the fact that we're built to be herbivores is a subtle hint as to what nature had planned for the humans of this planet.

and on top of that, some animals are culturally okay to eat, and in other cultures those same animals aren't. like think about dogs and cows... that's a discussion that can be avoided altogether by just not eating animals... all this is my own bias, and your mileage may vary of course. the only way i would eat meat is if i reared and personally slaughtered it myself in my back yard, but that is just way too predatory for my liking; and additionally i'm not going to be a lazy predator and pay someone to kill something for me.

i've been vegan for a few years, and was vegetarian before that, and haven't had problems healthily gaining weight, or maintaining muscle mass. go organic, avoid the things on the big nasty list you're supposed to avoid like excitotoxins, brand name sweetners, hydrogenated oils, sketchy polysyllabic chemical compounds, etc. keep your ph level as base as you can, stay away from the hard liquor, like the cayce readings suggest. take a nutritional supplement (try it and be amazed) and make sure you get what protein, carbs, and the appropriate calorie intake you need. job's tears, or pearl barley, is a pretty awesome source of protein i've found, and hemp is great too, but it's possible to od on protein, which isn't healthy either...

the thing is, going on the typical american mcdonald's-and-stuff diet, you aren't getting the nutrition you need anyway, herbivore or not, and you're getting too much of the stuff you don't, mixed in with a dash of death of course. in all the literature i've seen, the mcdonalds are one of the 13 families here in america, so think about what's going on there, like eugenics and whatever dark vibratory jinx they're putting out there. going vegan or organic doesn't have to be expensive either (how much is a box of spaghetti and some vegetables a day going to set you back?), but i guess it's relative to how worth it it's all to you anyway...

veganism a profound, massive, all encompassing lifestyle-worldview change, which probably means avoiding 80% of the western economy as it is. that alone is the worst kind of shock to someone new, but weigh your options and decide what is worth pursuing...

the occasional 16-hour fasting isn't nearly as bad as people say it is. the problem is, you can't sell not eating to people.

and as always, of course, consult your hcp before you do anything stupid...

consume responsibly

clairead

04-05-2010, 05:48 PM

thanks ,_x_!!!!
what a powerful statement!
for me, this was the most profound part of going vegan

<a... massive, all encompassing lifestyle-worldview change, which probably means avoiding 80% of the western economy as it is>

this gave me my life and real self back, and made me feel whole and connected and human in the best way - as in, how i came here to be, what this means practically is making your own everything, and not relying on packaged goods. there are several good new cookbooks and some old all-purpose books, like kloss, that show you how to do it. buy ingredients, buy in bulk, buy local organic produce, plant a garden (you can do this in pots in an apartment.) know your body and what protein, carb, fat ratio you need, what your allergies are. etc. live consciously, basically.

does this sound like too much work? i have a full time job and many hobbies. it's an extra couple of hours at the weekends, and a few extra minutes a day.

speaking of old books, cayce's encyclopedia of healing is worth its weight in gold and an interesting read besides.

peace and love,
kelly

_X_

04-05-2010, 07:22 PM

well!

having said that, i just got back from making various purchases at a well-known grocery chain. and didn't break any rules either... it's not hard (or expensive) once you get your own system going, and when you know what to look for. starting out, for me, was a solo endeavor, and was ridiculous and embarrassing. it definitely took me awhile to figure things out...

the thing is the general public doesn't understand that, say, a business like mcdonald's (yes i'm going out of my way to pick on them), is out there to provide you with the most wholesome, nutritious, health promoting food they possibly can... right??

wrong! they're in the business of making money... and selling you hamburgers is just how they do it. if they actually cared, and the public assumption was indeed true, the food would speak for itself, and they wouldn't need the billion dollar ad campaigns or family friendly marketing mascots to hawk their mongrel meat, or to cover up the fact their stuff is awful for you...

even if you are going to be carnivorous, at least want better things for yourself. have some self respect! look at how the windsors eat... they grow it on their palatial farms, then have it shipped out to them wherever they are around the world, and they will only eat what they grow. of course it's all gmo & pesticide free, additive free, 100% organic... maybe they know something we don't? or, maybe they consider themselves too good to eat what the common folk eat?... and why would that be...?

if the demand were high enough, "healthy" food would be readily available and inexpensive. that's just where we are right with that now.

so, growing your own stuff might take a little more effort, sure... but it may be worth it to you, economically, health, or otherwise. presently i'm not growing anything, mainly because of my living situation. but so it goes...

billybobbutterball

04-05-2010, 07:40 PM

interesting letter mr x

i watched the video you provided a link to, the good doctor presents a powerful argument for his plant food position...( but his choices of food seems third rate to me.)

anyway, there are recognized 'experts' who think otherwise concerning certain points and they mount some impressive arguments themselves. two experts in one family would be the dr eades' who champion a different view in their acclaimed book,"protein power".

a recent blog of dr. eades' lauds a new book called the "the vegetarian myth" written by a very intelligent woman who was vegan for 20 years. lierre kieth makes the case that agriculture is in a strange way a more violent earth-destroyer than animal husbandry. sorry to say that at a recent book signing and lecture she was physically surrounded by several masked men who assaulted her with flying pies and pepper spray. question?what was wrong with these guys? were these presumed vegetarians lacking some vital brain nutrient??:confused:

lierre makes the case that sustaining the population on present agriculture methods is unsustainable. and she is probably right....and then beyond that we have that most arguably evil monsanto corporation with their absolutely horrendous gmo frankenfoods agenda.

if you can refrain from pie throwing please check this out..

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/book-reviews/2009-bestseller-list/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=feed%3a+drmikenutritionblog+%28the+bl og+of+michael+r.+eades%2c+m.d.%29

i have mentioned him before but if you are considering a veg diet then google dr. stanley bass ( http://drbass.com/ ...study his article on super nutrition ) ... see which experimental diets failed :eek:and which diets thrived.:d

my good friend geri is a blood type o...(a type that must have meat) from age 23 to 36 she was a strict vegetarian. she claims that despite eating a great amount of food her weight was only 65 lbs at 5'7". when talking to the 'type a' physician father of the famous dr. d'adamo he convinced her that being an o she must have meat -- which lack, he speculated, was probably the reason she couldn't conceive. she ate meat; in a few days her lips flushed red, and she proceeded to have 4 children. (not all at once, of course)

in an earlier post i mentioned that muhatma gandhi and his immediate followers became vegetarians. after a period of time their health deteriorated to the point that they had to liberalize their food. they had high spiritual aspirations but....their bodies were 3-d animals.

as for myself i'm basically a raw, 'green' foods vegetarian. but i have a small amount of buffalo once a week( 1/6th lb.sauteed in pace picante sauce) i do take numerous supplements....especially the methyl form of b-12 .. a most vital vitamin which is absent from plants.

trying to see the big picture:cool: best, bbb

_X_

04-05-2010, 09:39 PM

people get really touchy when "science" is supposed to "settle" things for them.

it's not so much the information as the presentation. at the risk of sounding sardonic, maybe if she had taken a page from tony robbins and called her book, "how i learned to love meat" or "why meat is awesome", instead of presupposing in her title that there are groups of people out there who need to be told what to think because they aren't thinking correctly, she could have still conveyed the pertinent information and perhaps not attracted the ire of having polarized the aforementioned people against her?... i see that attitude in the science culture a lot, and it's not pretty. maybe that's not what she did, though. however, i must politely state i have no immediate interest in her book.

dr. bass does have some interesting things to say it seems. might be checking more of that out later...

besides, people don't believe things because they're true. don't be ridiculous... if you thought i was going to believe something because it's "true", well sir, you clearly don't know with whom you are dealing!

diversity exists. not knocking meat eaters, but if you're gonna do it, do it right.

to each their own my friend

Banana123

04-06-2010, 05:53 AM

i wonder if one of the reason we are so apposed to eating meat is because there is no soul in it. let me elaborate...many ainchent cultures believe that when they consume the flesh of a great warrior or noble animal, part of their spirit energy is transferred. imagine if trace lifeforce from any living thing you consume has remained with you even now.
this to me is a probable reason that eating low grade meats from depressed animals, that have been caged, and not allowed to follow their path of being an animal, leads to humans who feel depressed, caged, and are unable to follow their path of being a human.
also, it seems to me that society has put up every obstacle possible in the way of natural evolution. for example: did salmon who were able to swim upstream to spawn, have a deeper connection with the origional dna pattern set forth by the creator because they follow the correct path that their dna has programmed? in comparison to those born annualy in a fishery?
i tell you vegies what, i definatley know the differance between how i feel after eating a cage free, egg,chicken,buffalo, ect. and eating something low quality.
also eating meat doest seem as cruel to me if the animal is legitimatley hunted.

billybobbutterball

04-06-2010, 10:24 AM

hi, banana ....banana? don't you realize what imaginative pictures come into a reader's mind? how about black-spotted overripe fruit!! not flattering! now, if you were to spell it backwards.... ananab! wow! a transformation! we now have a mysterious name that rings with conanic like power!!!

anyway, mr b you bring up some good points.

however, as i understand it, animals do have souls, but of a different ilk...they share a group soul, sort of an archetype. however, in contact with humans -- even in a hunter/prey encounter which seems only negative --the experience can be enough to help the animal to become individualized, and thus set free of the group soul and now enabled to follow its singular path of spiritual evolution.

one utterly dismal word picture inflicted by vegetarians that makes me feel queasy is this one: "don't let your stomach become the graveyard of murdered animals." aaagghh! bad mind-meld!

well, eating the heart of a lion, or that of a brave but fallen warrior, has gotta have some effect on one's psyche...and then again there is the example of taking of the blood and flesh of jesus christ.....:confused:

one thing for sure, our food and water supply is being drastically if not fatally compromised. about the only food i feel really good about is hawaiian spirulina and spring-sourced chlorella.

sorry for teasing you about your name...at least i will never forget it!!

best, billybobbutterfinger ( image: red-neck sittin' on a rail fence, busy suckin' on a straw...)

:)

i wonder if one of the reason we are so apposed to eating meat is because there is no soul in it. let me elaborate...many ancient cultures believe that when they consume the flesh of a great warrior or noble animal, part of their spirit energy is transferred. imagine if trace lifeforce from any living thing you consume has remained with you even now.
this to me is a probable reason that eating low grade meats from depressed animals, that have been caged, and not allowed to follow their path of being an animal, leads to humans who feel depressed, caged, and are unable to follow their path of being a human.
also, it seems to me that society has put up every obstacle possible in the way of natural evolution. for example: did salmon who were able to swim upstream to spawn, have a deeper connection with the original dna pattern set forth by the creator because they follow the correct path that their dna has programmed? in comparison to those born annually in a fishery?
i tell you vegies what, i definitely know the difference between how i feel after eating a cage free, egg,chicken,buffalo, etc. and eating something low quality.
also eating meat doest seem as cruel to me if the animal is legitimately hunted.

billybobbutterball

04-06-2010, 11:05 AM

hi, x ...and lurkers, of course...

you are right about the authoress of the vegetarian myth not having an alert sense of humour.
i did a google and it was definitely a put on, send-up. no one can be so stupid as to call for putting a fence across africa, with the prey on one side and the predators on the other--with all living on grass!! (i don't think so...? are there?) anyway, the misunderstanding did push her over the edge to write her book.

misunderstanding...hey! she was not lauding the eating of meat, but rather pointing out the indisputable, factual truthmistic truism that agriculture as practised is not the pretty and quaint kincaidic pastorol picture as envisioned by most of us-- rather it is killing the planet.

the highest and best good for all concerned! :) bbb

people get really touchy when "science" is supposed to "settle" things for them.

it's not so much the information as the presentation. at the risk of sounding sardonic, maybe if she had taken a page from tony robbins and called her book, "how i learned to love meat" or "why meat is awesome", instead of presupposing in her title that there are groups of people out there who need to be told what to think because they aren't thinking correctly, she could have still conveyed the pertinent information and perhaps not attracted the ire of having polarized the aforementioned people against her?... i see that attitude in the science culture a lot, and it's not pretty. maybe that's not what she did, though. however, i must politely state i have no immediate interest in her book.

dr. bass does have some interesting things to say it seems. might be checking more of that out later...

besides, people don't believe things because they're true. don't be ridiculous... if you thought i was going to believe something because it's "true", well sir, you clearly don't know with whom you are dealing!

diversity exists. not knocking meat eaters, but if you're gonna do it, do it right.

to each their own my friend

_X_

04-06-2010, 12:22 PM

@bbb

... which isn't to say that agriculture practiced some other way wouldn't be feasible, either using vertical farming, permaculture methods, or otherwise decentralize the industry (a big hush hush, no no). of course sustainability is desirable, but good luck talking monsanto into it.

but you have to see that she comes across like she's trying to shut vegetarians down when she puts her information the way she does. that's where she's running into problems.

so if meat is the only source of b12, where do the herbivore animals get theirs?... i'm looking at the bottle of the vegan-friendly supplement i take (yeah thanks bilbo), and b12 is in there derived from cyanocobalamin, i.e. bacteria.

to wit, "meat" doesn't have b12...

the only source of b12 is bacteria. why it is in meat is that the b12 producing bacteria are found in the gut and the mouth of the animal. but unless you're eating those parts, chances are you aren't getting your b12 either.

i was pretty sure hemp had the complete vitamin b complex, but so long as you get to be wrong with me as well, i guess it works out...!

@banana123

you're actually pretty spot on, that one exception aside. if one thinks of the dinner table as a ritual with an altar, set with knives and plates and candles, it makes sense. the animal becomes a sacrifice, the banqueters pray before eating, and consume the vital energies (you could say the soul, just a yummy, perhaps, also?).

like i said, it's doable, but i'm trying to find a way around it. it's too predatory for my liking...

Banana123

04-06-2010, 05:17 PM

do insects count as animals or meat? at what stage does a lifeform count as meat? i know that sounded kinda dumb. do you know what supplimentsl b-12 is actually made of?
yours truly, devouerer of souls

billybobbutterball

04-06-2010, 05:33 PM

hi, x (incidentally, god changed her mind about hemp...she let the supplement companies do it for her.)

your rhetorical question/challenge: how do herbivores and such get vitamin b-12 without eating meat?....answer: they have a digestive track that is designed to support the cultivation of unique b-12 producing bacteria.

your vitamin pill does not contain such living bacteria...only their product. and the cyanocobalamin form you are taking is not found in nature.:p the superior form is that of methylcobalamin...as it much better addresses the nerves and other brain thingies that are of major importance to mental and physical clarity and vitality.:cool:

to whit:

ultimately, animals must obtain vitamin b12 directly or indirectly from bacteria, and these bacteria may inhabit a section of the gut which is posterior to the section where b12 is absorbed. thus, herbivorous animals must either obtain b12 from bacteria in their rumens, or (if fermenting plant material in the hindgut) by reingestion of cecotrope fæces.

vitamin b12 is found in foods that come from animals, including fish and shellfish, meat (especially liver), poultry, eggs, milk, and milk products.[30] one half chicken breast provides some 0.3 µg per serving or 6.0% of one's daily value (dv); 3 ounces of beef, 2.4 µg, or 40% of one's dv; one slice of liver 47.9 µg or 780% of dv; and 3 ounces of molluscs 84.1 µg, or 1,400 % of dv.

eggs are often mentioned as a good b12 source, but they also contain a factor (avidin) that blocks absorption.[31] certain insects such as termites contain b12 produced by their gut bacteria, in a way analogous to ruminant animals.[32] an nih fact sheet lists a variety of food sources of vitamin b12.

while lacto-ovo vegetarians usually get enough b12 through consuming dairy products, vegans will lack b12 unless they consume multivitamin supplements or b12-fortified foods. examples of fortified foods include fortified breakfast cereals, fortified soy products, and fortified energy bars. according to the uk vegan society, the present consensus is that any b12 present in plant foods is likely to be unavailable to humans because b12 analogues can compete with b12 and inhibit metabolism.[33][34]

claimed sources of b12 that have been shown to be inadequate or unreliable through direct studies[35] of vegans include laver (a seaweed), barley grass, and human gut bacteria.

supplements

vitamin b12 is provided as a supplement in many processed foods, and is also available in vitamin pill form, including multi-vitamins. vitamin b12 can be supplemented in healthy subjects also by liquid, transdermal patch, nasal spray, or injection and is available singly or in combination with other supplements.

cyanocobalamin is converted to its active forms, first hydroxocobalamin and then methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin in the liver. (problems with conversion are quite common, especially in the aged.. so naturally i opt for the more expensive methyl form.)

best, billybobbutterb12

_X_

04-06-2010, 07:52 PM

well, b^3, i think we both read the same mike adams article there, bubba...

so, to summarize--
* b12 doesn't come from meat, but the critters living inside it. you don't have to be a codependent predator. you can get it from other sources.

* agriculture is sustainable, but probably not with the current patented, massively centralized, government meddled, monsanto sponsored methods. if the demand were high enough however, the eugenicists and their frankenfoods and factory farming would be out of here, and we would make agriculture sustainable. in the meantime, you certainly aren't harming the planet by growing your own freedom garden.

hope that bit of "science" there "settles" some things for a few people...

enjoy life, guys. be kind to yourselves, and be well

billybobbutterball

04-06-2010, 09:53 PM

greetings x i'm having trouble getting this thing launched...thinks the message is only 10 characters long....

well, b^3, i think we both read the same mike adams article there, bubba...

## x i don't know the gentleman you are talking about. i pulled some b12 material from wiki.

so, to summarize--
* b12 doesn't come from meat, but the critters living inside it. you don't have to be a codependent predator. you can get it from other sources.

## what! didn't you read my last post? ...what are these other food sources you can get it from? tests showed that the intestinal flora of man doesn't serve as a source. ok maybe a long shot -- the bacteria is active further down the intestinal track...so if one eats their own feces (like the deer and antelope do playing around) just maybe one could get some b12.

## whoops. i'm overreacting to your statement that the b-12 comes from the critters living inside the meat...no!! that's a major truth violation!! :rolleyes: b12 is a by-product from the critters that is absorbed through the digestive track! the critters are not in the meat....the critters depart via the respective anuses.

## you are right...one can get b12 via a supplement. you had me going there.
do check out dr. bass' work...omnivores lived longer and produced massive amounts more work (on cage wheels )during their lifetimes. vegetarians faded fast before midlife -- weak, scraggly and pooped out, then died off while the omnivores were just getting started.

* agriculture is sustainable, but probably not with the current patented, massively centralized, government meddled, monsanto sponsored methods. if the demand were high enough however, the eugenicists and their frankenfoods and factory farming would be out of here, and we would make agriculture sustainable. in the meantime, you certainly aren't harming the planet by growing your own freedom garden.

## there is not that much time left to fix it in a leisurely manner...smile! be sappy?..ughh --- happy, that is,

old billious, limping off into the twilight

hope that bit of "science" there "settles" some things for a few people...

enjoy life, guys. be kind to yourselves, and be well

_X_

04-07-2010, 09:08 AM

it's somewhere in there--
http://www.naturalnews.com

i recognize that the b12 is a bacterial byproduct. no truth violations there, just a convenient tautological reduction. most humans do have bacteria living in their gi tract, acquired at birth or through contact with antibiotics or acquired some other way, but it's typically not the symbiotic kind. in those cases, the bacteria consume sugars, and the byproduct is higher acidity in the body.

humans are primates, and there are strong, strictly plant eating primate species and other herbivorous specimens out there. i understand why rats are typically used in experiments, but i will have to disagree with his conclusions in this case... i'm not a zoologist, but from what i understand, the cliche is mice and rats are fond of cheese, so it would be no surprise that the findings of his experiments which used rats would conclude that cheese and egg yolk would be part of their optimal diet.

so, if all essential vitamins and nutrients can be provided for, including b12 and vitamin d (byproduct of the skin's reaction to sunlight), and you can get amino acids, proteins, omega acids, carbohydrates, everything, without having to consume fish, egg, cheeses, meats... a vegan diet is then just as feasible as being an omnivore, which is what i have going on right now anyway. and that's definitely not because i'm some genius.

as a vegan, and for spiritual reasons that is not going to change, i'm more concerned with arguments actually for veganism and strengthening a vegan diet, and not reasons why i should consume animal products. that dog just won't hunt.

i think as we've demonstrated, either style of nutritional intake, as per the title of the thread, can be equally efficacious, that is herbivore or omnivore (being a strict carnivore is probably not a good idea, diverticulitis comes to mind).

so why choose one over the other? that's when more intangible personal factors come into play...

glad we got some meat eating myths debunked here. no truth violations allowed! the science has settled it for you. aren't you happy now?

billybobbutterball

04-07-2010, 11:29 AM

well, mr x vegan, thanks for presenting your side of the food question. always interesting to explore such controversial issues.

a couple of points that i'm still hung on....

x says: so, if all essential vitamins and nutrients can be provided for, including b12 and vitamin d (byproduct of the skin's reaction to sunlight), and you can get amino acids, proteins, omega acids, carbohydrates, everything, without having to consume fish, egg, cheeses, meats... a vegan diet is then just as feasible as being an omnivore, which is what i have going on right now anyway. and that's definitely not because i'm some genius.

bbb ventures, yes the statement above leaps across the truth bar, the only trouble here is how does one implement it all to becoming a healthy vegan? of course such is easier said than done. the scientifical factual is that haphazard veganism is dangerous to ones health. the term vegan does not automatically equate to a healthful diet but only specifically to items eliminated from the serving table --. what confounds me are all the attempts to make tasty vegetarian recipes that ape meatloaf. meatloaf? then there is the ubiquitous, supposedly health-giving soy products...a plant that was never intended for food in its original home in china...they knew better than to eat it (except out of desperation in famines) it was only used in crop rotation since it replaced depleted nitrogen to the soil.

x says:as a vegan, and for spiritual reasons that is not going to change, i'm more concerned with arguments actually for veganism and strengthening a vegan diet, and not reasons why i should consume animal products. that dog just won't hunt.

bbb yeah..sorta like .keep your eye single...damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.

x claims....i think as we've demonstrated, either style of nutritional intake, as per the title of the thread, can be equally efficacious, that is herbivore or omnivore (being a strict carnivore is probably not a good idea, diverticulitis comes to mind).

bb says. i don't think it has been demonstrated at all, merely declared. big difference.
complete nutrition is very difficult to obtain...crops are grown in depleted soil...even going back 80 years ago a warning was given on the senate floor that the food quality was substandard...lacking vitamins and minerals. things have not improved...produce has most likely been sprayed with dozens of chemicals, and irradiated (destroying vital nutritional factors) and genetically modified, creating end results that will live to haunt us.
several times i have run into problems -- the last time using grapes, and greens. my skin broke out, my fingers so sensitive i had to wear gloves in order to handle money operating out of a register. i came to the conclusion was that they were drenched with pesticides.

as for meat causing diverticulitis.?..once i lived for two years on 3/4th lb of hamburger, a generous dollop of ketchup, plus half a grapefruit per day. did well but lacked omega 3 since it was corn finished beef... then i went on a "healthy" macro biotic diet that was a health disaster to not only myself but my wife.:eek:

okay...end of rant...thank heavens!:d

billybobbutterball

04-07-2010, 08:14 PM

hi, b...oh, mighty devourer of souls! :eek: scary!!

you do ask disturbing questions. if you are a follower of ahimsa then all life is sacred to the point where walking down a path is a study in slow motion...making sure you don't step on any bugs..and you would not be allowed to whack a mosquito. one time i was attracted to the idea and didn't want to disturb bugs in the apartment...even had a web i didn't bother... but then came the day a horde of pink and white baby black widow babies came forth into the kitchen. my brutal wife told me to change my philosophy, or else!

the human body is made up of some 50 trillion cells...these are like little individual entities gathered together in symbiosis. then about 15% of the body mass is bacteria. the intestinal flora made up of some 500 species of things that crawl and or multiply can range from 3 to 5 lbs or so. we have critters living down there that can become relatively large...the biggest of which could be an adult tape worm that could reach an amazing 50feet or so, (whom is devouring whom, dear devourer of souls??:p)

so we cut ourselves...agghh! murdering cell entities,,, take a purge....kill billions --
but then again we could give life to billions by taking probiotics.:confused:

many native tribes consider insects as food if not as meat...roasted locusts supposedly taste pretty good....i understand that in china anything that crawls, swims or can fly is considered fair gourmet game. and hey! they can supply vitally needed b12. but hey again! if a bug tries to share my green smoothie i flick the intruder out to starve. i'm ruthless in my battle to survive.

i think that the ra mentioned the dance of life...at one time or the other every living thing supposedly takes their turn in becoming food for something else. it balances out.

the b12 tablets are made from bacteria that end up as cultures on a yeast bed. there are
supposed vegan versions but i wouldn't trust them as they are more idealistic than real. feeding youself the live bacteria doesn't work since they become b-12 producers far below the part of the intestine that can absorb it...the feces does contain the b-12. spirulina and chlorella are said to contain b12 but it has been argued that it is an 'impostor' analogue which interferes with the absorption of the real stuff..also what is real is probably donated via bird droppings...i don't think about that aspect when i add it to my green-slime smoothie:cool:

personally, i think the vegans come up short when compared to breatharians..but then most breathers (the few that are) do drink water and breath air...both of which are known mediums for supporting life forms..

and then what about viruses? they are much like crystals until invigorated. living rock?
but then everthing has some level of consciousness.

dear banana, i hope this helps you. once you figure it all out please let me know. i can use some help!

best, bill, aka bbb

do insects count as animals or meat? at what stage does a lifeform count as meat? i know that sounded kinda dumb. do you know what supplements b-12 is actually made of?
yours truly, devourer of souls

clairead

04-07-2010, 08:43 PM

from http://www.naturalnews.com/026402_health_food_vegan.html

(please note, i eat a fair amount of raw foods, but i am not a raw foodie.i have nothing to promote here except balance.) -kelly

"kevin: so you mentioned b12. if someone encounters a b12 deficiency, so they are there, then what's the approach to get out of it?

dr. graham: there are various approaches, the medical model would be to supplement with b12. this is akin to saying, "i've got a bucket. it's supposed to be full of water, but there's no water in here." the medical model would say, "let's add water." the hygienic model or the health model would say, "let's fill the hole. once you fill the hole your body will refill the bucket automatically." what i've experienced is people with b12 deficiency are put on a fast. they consume no food of any kind other than pure water, who three to four weeks later test perfectly normal for b12 levels. what this showed is that it was an absorption problem not an exposure problem. b12 is everywhere. it's in the air. it's in the mucus membranes of your nose. every time you inhale, you're breathing in b12; every time you swallow your own saliva, you're swallowing b12. it's not an exposure issue. there's no animal that produces b12. it's all bacterially produced, and yet we keep hearing myths. it has been shown in every diet; there is a certain percentage of people who go b12 deficient. whether you are vegan, vegetarian, raw fooder, or standard american diet, that percentage is the same. b12 deficiency was first discovered in carnivorous or what you would call "people who would eat anything" - kind of a diet. that's where b12 was first discovered and treated.

kevin: ok. so it wasn't in a vegan...

dr. graham:: no, it was not in a vegan in any way. we're not showing that vegans have higher b12 deficiencies. but we do have to look at the reality that most grain products, especially those that are called "enriched grain products," cereal, breads, and pasta, and whatnots, are typically enriched with b12. so, although you might be eating twinkees, it's enriched with b12, which means you're taking a b12 supplement every day. what we call the normal level of b12 is based on testing people who are supplementing with b12 at every meal. this is an abnormally high level of b12 compared to the normal population or compared to a population which isn't supplementing. we also have to understand that there's always a rebound phenomenon for anything in our body. it's like an over-steering mechanism that says, "if you're very high on something, then you come off of it, you're going to come down before you level out." so if you're high on speed you're going to crash...

kevin: right.

dr. graham:: ...before you level out. this is true for all drugs and substances in every way. so we see that if you were eating enriched b12 products or products enriched with b12 with every meal and when you totally stop, you may drop down before you level out. b12 testing is not a bad idea, particularly, but i wouldn't test for b12 until someone was showing me b12 deficiency symptoms."

evolving

04-07-2010, 09:28 PM

many native tribes consider insects as food if not as meat...roasted locusts supposedly taste pretty good....i understand that in china anything that crawls, swims or can fly is considered fair gourmet game. and hey! they can supply vitally needed b12.

actually, i worked there for a couple years and they eat anything that walks, crawls, swims, jumps, slithers, or can fly, as well as things that don't even move (deep fried leaves from the trees among other things - which were surprisingly tasty). the only exception to eating what flies is aircraft :)

billybobbutterball

04-08-2010, 12:04 PM

bbb says, hi all!

i thought the big b12 discussion had run its course but clairead offered some more input.
i checked out the link, quite interesting watching a healthy looking dr. graham put his pupils through their exercise program (much more convincing charisma than another 'natural' dr appearing on video who looked like a refugee from a concentration camp, and despite that off-putting had the nerve to bad-mouth diets -- following standard recommendation -- as having twice too much protein...)

however, looks are not all that counts, probably my favorite source for health news is that of dr. mercola's free newsletter, and, to be fair, dr.(orthopedist) mercola won't win any senior bodybuilding titles. but he knows a lot about nutrition and special exercise protocols (that he picked up from dr. al sears' pace training program)

anyway, by special spiritual synchronicity his latest newsletter offers us some much needed insights into the b12 "problem" -- so i'm going to give the link

http://products.mercola.com/vitamin-b12-spray/?source=nl

one point of importance is that the b12 in multi-vitamins is prone to degradation --with the result that not only will it not deliver the goods but will prevent the utilization of b12 from other sources. the nanotech product he mentions is not available so this fyi

note: for 10 years i have been using sub-lingual tablets of methylcobalamin and am happy to report that i'm still alive, and most mornings i can remember my name once i look into the mirror.

my personal reaction to dr. graham and his comment about not checking for b12 deficiency until symptoms pop up and start waving a red flag is this: by that time severe damage has incurred and would be most difficult to reverse...we are talking about serious, long term destruction of nerve tissue....senior people have problems utilizing b12 and are already most at risk for being mentally challenged.

readers will be relieved to know that i've finally exhausted my lore of b whatever...

:d pop a pill and save a brain.:p..just kidding....bill g aka bbb

from http://www.naturalnews.com/026402_health_food_vegan.html

(please note, i eat a fair amount of raw foods, but i am not a raw foodie.i have nothing to promote here except balance.) -kelly

"kevin: so you mentioned b12. if someone encounters a b12 deficiency, so they are there, then what's the approach to get out of it?

dr. graham: there are various approaches, the medical model would be to supplement with b12. who go b12 deficient. whether you are vegan, vegetarian, raw fooder, or standard american diet, that percentage is the same. b12 deficiency was first discovered in carnivorous or what you would call "people who would eat anything" - kind of a diet. that's where b12 was first discovered and treated.

big snip...check original...

dr. graham:: ...before you level out. this is true for all drugs and substances in every way. so we see that if you were eating enriched b12 products or products enriched with b12 with every meal and when you totally stop, you may drop down before you level out. b12 testing is not a bad idea, particularly, but i wouldn't test for b12 until someone was showing me b12 deficiency symptoms."

clairead

04-08-2010, 01:01 PM

billybobbutterball

04-08-2010, 03:16 PM

thanks, bbb!
i read mr. mercola's site.
i don't take multivitamins any more. not that i'm evolved beyond them or anything, i just decided a while back to see if getting my vitamins and minerals 'the old fashioned way' from herb infusions, kelp and brewer's yeast ([brand name removed], which has that much-disputed vitamin which shall go nameless) would work just as well. for me, it does. i'm not recommending this to anyone.
peace and love,
kelly

hi, kelly

that seems a viable path. i was with an mlm company long ago. the president was a learned biologist. he had made a tape based on the theme: "how i got well by throwing out my multivitamins" he made a good case for such.

in formulating your diet you might find "nutritiondata.com" of great help... you can select your foods then find out how they stack up nutritionally.my most important options turned out to be: broccoli, cauliflower, bok choy, carrots (for vitamin a) green peas, string beans, these vegetables rated tops in weight loss, max heath nutrition, complete protein, lowest in promoting weight gain. i don't cook them, i run them through my vm.x blender. at least they don't pretend to look like pseudo meatloaf! supposedly the cauliflower and broccoli need less pesticides.

i generally avoid grains on principle, but recently i've been experimenting with doing 48 hours worth of sprouting fantastic mayan quinoa mixed alongside plain old, red lentils.

best,,, bill

clairead

04-08-2010, 04:23 PM

you do make me smile, bill :d
thank you for the site. it's very good!
now, i will confess that i am trained as a herbalist, am an empirical midwife, and first stumbled on whole foods (not the market!) back before some of these young-uns was borned. okay 1970-something.... some of my taped-together old cookbooks and such would make you laugh. anyway, suffice it to say, i am a nutrition nerd.

when you say mlm, i naturally think amway and shaklee. i knew people who sold that, back in the day and since. i was not a good customer, client, mark (?) for them because i'm not into packaged products of any kind. i'm a kind of diy girl for everything. i won't say that i subscribed to the big chill is coming belief of other back-to-nature freaks at the time (and i use the word freak most affectionately) but my friends all say that if 'anything' happens, i will know how to do all that old timey stuff without electricity and gadgets. ha! little do they know none of us will need electricity or gadgets!

i have seen vitamixes in action at close range, and they are impressive. but i'm kind of at the amish end of things, with a hand-crank blender and grain mill.... noisy machines make me nervy. i agree with you about grains - is this an ab thing? too many grains make me feel awful. sprouted and eaten raw seems to work better for me, too. i assume the lentils are sprouted as well?

peace, bro,
kelly

onething

04-08-2010, 08:03 PM

as an animal lover i can definitely empathize with the desire to get off the wheel of predator/prey. and yet it is agriculturists and not hunter-gatherers who enslave animals and lose their spiritual respect for them.

i also agree that if people demanded it, we would have sustainable, locally grown food. but if we went vegetarian i do seriously doubt that we could feed all the humans without making our planet unbalanced and sick, as well as the absolutely huge amounts of land which would be required, the even greater amounts of natural habitat that would have to be cleared - cleared of all the living creatures within. and how to maintain the soil without chemical fertilizers if there are no animals to provide that balance?

on old macdonald's farm, the excess milk of the cows goes to the pigs, scraps go to the chickens, the animals fertilize the soil, and the crops are in balance with the animals.

if the world were to go vegan we would destroy our soils, destroy more habitat, and have far few animals both wild and domestic. if the world went vegan, i would no longer see the happy, silly chickens getting underfoot of the sheep, all grazing upon a hillside quite unsuited to crops...these animals would all go extinct.

i have a problem with adopting a diet that requires modern technology, such as b12 supplementation, to keep one alive. if it doesn't fit in easily with a simple lifestyle, is it likely to be right for our health?

i, too, rail against this system we find ourselves in, in which all things are eating one another and in which if that did not occur, even worse things would happen. perhaps the problem is with our perception of death as being real. but i know that suffering is real, and the factory farmed animals are suffering.

it seems to me that being vegan is almost completely unlikely to be healthy and i am so far unimpressed with the appearance of the ones i have seen, who were intelligent and diligent. so if you eat dairy products, then the question is, what are we to do with the fact that every second calf born is going to be male? in india, they use them to plow the fields. we have no such use for them. but what about the cow? it seems to me the more important question is, what kind of life is that cow living? our dairy industry is an ugly one, in which cows live to be only 4! that is startlingly young for such a large animal. they should live to be 18 or twenty, and that is with frequent pregnancy. it's no use eating dairy products out of compassion for not killing and eating meat, if those dairy products come from a factory farmed cow, who never sees the light of day or eats grass.

_X_

04-08-2010, 08:12 PM

alas bilbo, your not-so-tongue-in-cheek critique of jainism aside, i hate to disappoint, but i'm not seeking converts, only citing personal experience as a reference for those who may be interested in pursuing a lifestyle similar to mine.

the fact is i became vegan, and also for the past few years have been taking a daily whole food supplement, which included the white whale b12. i used to have wicked allergies, now no more. i used to have a regular seasonal sickness, now no more. most illnesses skip over me, and when i get them they are probably a fraction of the intensity of what i have experienced them to be, barring some nasty viral infection.

i have never felt better, i run cleaner, have gained 25+ lbs approximately of muscle mass (wasn't a big guy to begin with), and to this day have never had problems maintaining desirable weight. and i can take pride that my life isn't that of a codependent predator... so, i'm going to have to disagree with you on this one and say that being vegan, haphazard or otherwise, isn't nearly quite as dangerous as perhaps it ought to be. if this goes against all the findings, my apologies dr. baggins.

additionally, i encourage you to go back and reread what i've written as you've obviously missed my ongoing stealth irony in the last few posts. the broad conclusions and pseudo-skepticism i've employed were there on purpose. the reason being, i have no desire to debate you on this or engage you on your facts. that reason should be clear now, given the energy you're injecting into the discussion now, and to try to debate you beyond that becomes very absurd.

however, you were fairly warned-- if you think i believe things because they're "true", well... i don't! perhaps you should just let this truth offender go on this one...

for the folks playing at home... this message is brought to you by: supplement. take one. i don't care what you eat. take a whole food supplement (notice i didn't say vitamin) that meets all the daily nutritional requirements a human is supposed to have, and take it consistently. there is a popular brand out there that accomplishes just that, which i recommend (not a spokesperson, just a satisfied customer). it's amazing, and i mean that sincerely...

that is all my friends

billybobbutterball

04-08-2010, 11:30 PM

well, gee whiz mr. x,

i didn't mean to offend you by misunderstanding your tone...or not being able to recognize the undertow of your stealth tactics ...which after re-reading your posts still remains below my radar...(but then my friends keep reminding me that i'm not the sharpest tool in the box.)

part of the reason i kept coming back with more input was because your repartee didn't seem to match up with my previous comments -- frustrating. or was that your stealth mode?

and what did you mean by my "not so tongue in cheek comments"? the baby black widow spiders? that was a true story with a bit of wry humor... so i guess i was not speaking with tongue in cheek after all ?

x, i'm not trying to simply bang on your beliefs; the fact is that others are following our conversation and i think it is important that they have both sides of the story, and keep in mind that some of my replies were directed to these interested others.

i am very glad for you that you have a regime that is paying of with health and a sense of well being...plus an added 25 lbs more muscle! wow! that is remarkable!...

hmmm...that is, unless you happen to be over 8' tall and big boned...? of course at one time in my adult life i myself gained 100lbs! ...but unfortunately there was only 5lbs of that which was made up of muscle. :o

yes! i would like to know what supplement foodstuff you are taking....you can send me a pm (private message). also i would be very interested in knowing your blood type.

you know, all this fuss reminds me of an old truism...."a man convinced against his will remains of that same opinion still.":d free will in all its filibuster glory!

go in peace, brother. in truth i'm delighted to see you busily posting on this forum':)

to everyone tuning in! the highest and best good for all concerned!!!!! bill g

FooSnik

04-09-2010, 09:24 AM

hello all. very interesting convo going on here. and two very good writers involved in a passionate debate makes for very good reading.

i find that the most important thing for me, during this unique shift of energy that the planet is going through, is to go with the flow. i have read in many places that as the earth becomes lighter, so will our bodies, and so should our diets. but to stray too far extreme out of balance with the current energy of the planet would not be optimal for a balanced body. i have read that sooner or later we will all evolve to a liquid only diet. and eventually to just live off of light. i feel like this makes the most sense to me. but we are not there yet.

i tried a vegan diet and found it made me feel weak and tired. but a conventional meat and potatoes diet made me feel sluggish and cloudy in the mind. so the key words for me and my diet, as of late, is raw and organic. raw, raw, raw. everything raw. i eat some raw fish, raw milk, raw yogurt, raw honey, raw apple cider vinegar, raw cacao... i think you get the point. and this has worked lovely for me. raw milk is so good for me. i have had stomach issues which the raw milk as been great to strengthen the walls of my stomach and has cleared my mind up.

so, mr x., can i ask you a question, please? you are a vegan so i would love to know what your opinion is. i never understood why vegans object to eating honey. what is wrong with honey? you are not killing any bees. and honey is so good for the body in so many ways it seems as if it was intended for humans and bears to enjoy. i think some things are on the planet, made by animals, for humans. like the wool of a sheep. wool is made by an animal. so do vegans not wear wool sweaters either?

also, plants have conciousness too. i don't think a plant would like it very much to have you chewing it up and swallowing it. and yes, plants do have conciousness.

i think the diet of the human has more to do with the cocoon of energy that we live in here on earth. all things have conciousness and we have to eat something. the energy of the earth is rapidly lightening up and we need to try rise along with it. hence, the second i have down there in my signature.

love to all,
foo

billybobbutterball

04-09-2010, 04:29 PM

question: can mushrooms save the world...energy, food?

you betcha, its a big yes!

i thought this was a gag, until i saw this video (2008) where it is spelled out!:d

http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_stamets_on_6_ways_mushrooms_can_save_the_worl d.html

i had no inkling what feats of rebuilding they are capable of...these m'roomies
know what they are doing!

detoxify! transform! create viable soil out of refuse ... over time, even stone!
incredible! seems they set the stage for the original, viable earth ecology!:cool:

i think you will be surprised and amazed ...please give it a look-see.

:) bbb

_X_

04-09-2010, 11:22 PM

and hopefully this ends the debate portion of the show...

however, b³, it seemed like all the evidence you were citing was unfairly equivocating the dangers of malnutrition with nutrition style... malnutrition can occur with any dietary preference, which is why i emphasized taking a whole food supplement, and i freely admit it is the only way i can pursue the diet i do. however, that would be true if i were a carnivore... my advice would be the same to anyone, regardless of their preference, whatever their reason, if it's voluntary (like mine was at first, though now i'm kinda locked in), or involuntary (intolerances, allergies, etc.).

my impetus, however, to take upon my present diet was more 4th ray related. if you've ever watched videos of how foie gras is made, or the inside of a cattle slaughterhouse, you may see where i'm coming from. sounds cliche, but i didn't need much convincing, though your mileage may vary. the journey's worth it, i think...

an online setting makes it easier for the ego to get bruised, so if we had had this discussion in person, it probably would have gone down a little bit differently... the stealth humor's there friend. but i'm glad you and i used the power of science (!!) and the wikifacts to settle things for everyone, enforce the truth, keep people safe and properly educated as we deign fit, dispel deviant superstitious myths, and bring reason and truth upon the irrational and truth offenders and settle hard hitting controversial issues with iron clad determinations made in an unbiased debate setting... psyke.

certainty is the stumbling block of reason, so they say. i mean, i say, rather...

@ foosnik

i don't have a problem with honey, or silk... this is when it gets more challenging for me to intellectualize. honey is okay, but milk isn't... silk is okay, but leather isn't (but wool is more okay than leather i guess). if that makes any sense...

insects are weird, and they're not like most four legged animals with faces and blood and nervous systems, and they're going to be making that stuff anyway... they're just part of a different intelligence found in nature: hierarchical, communal, frequently hegemonic, slave labor driven... i guess i'm thinking more of bees and ants when i say that though.

for all the usual compassionate reasons i may have for not eating meat... for whatever reason, i don't feel the same way about insects and reptiles. i won't eat them, or anything else walking around, but if i had to, which is the most hypothetical of hypotheticals, i would sooner eat them than fellow mammals... i don't see us ever really being friends. but the insects in this case, i'll settle for some odd master-slave relationship, if i benefit and they get something out of it (even if that means my simply sparing their puny lives!)... sounds crazy and idiosyncratic, but hey...

on a personal note, i have an intense dislike of fish... again, they're just weird and different. don't want to eat them. don't know what i would have in common with them...

you all probably know way too much about me now...

i definitely don't have a problem with probiotics, like kombucha. also, plants are life and do have a consciousness... in the material, ra says on this plane of existence, having to consume another life to preserve your own is pretty much unavoidable. i would add, of course, unless you develop some photonic nutritive abilities, which some rumored individuals purportedly have...

i guess going out of my way to not consume animal products is just part of the standards i have for myself as a person, like how a gentleman would expect himself to do and say certain things, but to behave in an uncivil or belittling manner would be out of the question, because of the high regard he holds himself and others... he understands that he ought not do wrong necessarily because of the external consequences, but the kind of person he would become by doing it; that is some valuable part of himself becomes diminished in some way. but i at least won't consume anything that has a face and a mother and a nervous system, or anything that came from it...

like i said, my reasons are more, say, 4th ray, than rooted in the scientific, or spelled out in laundry lists of wikifacts and articles.

it's important not to rule out energy exchange when consuming foodstuffs. like why "live" food or "blessed" food is "better" for you... some sources are purer and more universal than others, but then there are sources which you have to be tuned to, to really get something out of it. but then again, why would you pursue consuming any kind of energy unless you weren't attuned to it in the first place? this might be a bad example, but a vampire drinks blood, not so much for the nutritional value of the blood, but the energy exchange going on there. but in order to really benefit from it, you have to be tuned to that particular way, as befitting of such an exchange...

docholiday

04-10-2010, 08:23 AM

this might be a bad example, but a vampire drinks blood, not so much for the nutritional value of the blood, but the energy exchange going on there. but in order to really benefit from it, you have to be tuned to that particular way, as befitting of such an exchange...

hello x

i have been enjoying this interesting exchange without anything to add until your last comment - which i believe sums up the debate perfectly..

in matters such as these, where a charged and compelling arguement can be made (and certainly has been here) for both sides of the issue - the answer is not an either/or situation - rather is what i like to call a both/and issue where rightness/wrongness or optimal/not optimal is dependent on perspective - or as you have adroitly stated - the manner in which you are attuned.

as i stated in an earlier post, every spiritual master that i have ever studied has recommended a balanced diet free from animal flesh for the purpose of achieving optimal progress toward union with one's higher self (ie christ consciousness etc..).

with the above clearly understood, the vegan/vegatarian diets are very difficult for most to thrive in secondary to today's high stress lifestyles, combined with the,continous multifaceted consciousness lowering bombardment by the self proclaimed "elite". the key point is meatless diets appear to work very well for those who possess a higher level of "attunement" or whose mind/body/spirit system (mbss) is consistently vibrating at a higher frequency. ( point - higher does need mean better - it just means higher). for these people, a meatless diet is the most congruent and a meat laden diet would be incongruent with their mbss. now the opposite could be said for those whose mbss is vibrating or is attuned to a lower frequency level - and this would undoubtedly include the majority of the world's population. this is precisely why the majority of the world's people feels better on a diet that includes meat - they are, as you have stated x, attuned to it.

(now i am sure b-- will have a rebuttal - to which i will not respond beyond this reply :) - but will add the following. in the past, i have spent some time living on an ashram and have observed that a meatless diet works very well for those attending the ashram - as radiant health is abudantly evident, sickness/disease are virtually non-existant and "youngevity" is plentiful. i discovered that when i retured to normal americanized living the balanced meatless diet absolutely did not work for me - unless - i diligently maintained my spirtual practice - in other words i needed to stay "attuned"

in conclusion, i would like to state that although it appears that the majority of earth people are attuned to having meat in their diet - it should not prevent those from striving to attain attunement to a balanced meatless diet - as it would allow for optimal progress toward fullfilling the purpose of life - that being union with the higher self.

billybobbutterball

04-10-2010, 01:14 PM

end of the great debate:confused:

mrx has dropped the first spadeful of dirt over my coffin...even doc holiday drops by to give a sayonara eulogy... i've been disposed of.:(

even the heavens are against me....wrote a wonderful summation conflagration --twice --and just before sending the last effort it also vanished before my eyes...without a trace of hyperspace smoke.:eek:.

agghh!

one thing left...

concerning the whole debacle of misunderstanding i had copied a paragraph from a previous post that sums up my worry about those not aware of the need to do their diets --whatever--right! ...it is still here...hasn't gone away....here is the paste

"the only trouble here is how does one implement it all to becoming a healthy vegan? of course such is easier said than done. the scientifical factual is that haphazard veganism is dangerous to ones health. the term 'vegan' does not automatically equate to a healthful diet but only specifically to items eliminated from the serving table --. what confounds me are all the attempts to make tasty vegetarian recipes that ape meatloaf. meatloaf? then there is the ubiquitous, supposedly health-giving soy products...a plant that was never intended for food in its original home in china...they knew better than to eat it (except out of desperation in famines) it was only used in crop rotation since it replaced depleted nitrogen to the soil."

i hereby quit in frustration!! snarl, sulk, whimper ..pitiful cries of, "why me, oh lord?" (answer) "why not?"

FooSnik

04-10-2010, 07:47 PM

ok that is pretty much what i thought, x. i guess each person much listen to their body and soul to tell them what is right or wrong for him or her.

and, bbb, i read somewhere that those soy/wheat based meat imitations were created for chinese buddhists trying to live a vegetarian life style. i always thought that if yhou are going to be a vegetarian then learn to love veggies. trying to fake it will just make you miss the real thing. like trying to quit skoking tobacco by switching to smoking cloves.

also, i just discovered kava. drinking raw, natural kava has a lot of health benefits aside from feeling, relaxed, friendly and peaceful. it promotes deep, restful, refreshing sleep with bright vivid dreams as well as mental clarity. it is also nonaddictive with no side affects. it does put your body into a state of detox which is why it should not be used i n conjunction with alcohol or prescription drugs. could cause liver damage. perfect for an axious dude like me.

:)

billybobbutterball

04-10-2010, 09:54 PM

hi foo

i had a confused moment of memory lapse there ....it has been years since i heard about kava kava...way back when it made quite an intial splash -- then things cooled off when some of the side-effects started to come to light. boy! i've sure been a kill-joy lately! must be going through a change of life... sorry.:o

best, billious g

_X_

04-10-2010, 11:06 PM

@ bilbo

the term 'vegan' does not automatically equate to a healthful diet

neither does eating meat. can't have it both ways.

there's nothing wrong with trying to emulate the meat-based foods you grew up with. but if you look at how most non western cultures organize their cuisine, you'll find they tend to situate it around the starch rather than the meat, and perhaps taking that angle would enable one to be less laborious in meal planning, when meat isn't the primary foodstuff.

i don't recommend regular soy product consumption, either. every now and then is okay, but definitely not frequently, nor as a regular meat substitute. there are more viable alternatives, of course... however as a soy product, miso paste, because it is fermented, is perfectly fine.

as per the great debate, then no more... like i said, presentation's crucial. don't be tempted to become the truth bearing bringer of light. the truth is simply a point of view, no matter how convincing... lest divine intervention seek you out again! (or not.)

@ docholiday

wow... your experiences between the ashram and civilization... very interesting. there's probably more to the iconography of consumer culture than simple commercial appeal...

the energetic focus is probably where this discussion should have been in the first place, i guess... the purpose of consuming food stuffs is to acquire energy to sustain the chemical functions of the body. which is just that, energy... and food can be revitalized with orgone, or golod pyramids, and was probably the initial purpose behind blessing the food before consumption.

there's also the 3 temperaments and their correlative, recommended diets in ayurvedic medicine, which would make sense seeing it through the lens of attunement and drawing likened energy towards the self. if you could absorb raw energy to fuel your metabolic processes in accord with your biomorphic field, that would be great...

it's sort of like the relationship between the lock and the key. they exist for one another, they both fit, because they compliment each other. coorigination would also apply to the diet and energy intake in a way.

the ramifications of that are very exciting... because of where i am right now, it's easy for me to sometimes forget the more subtle, occluded elements at play (which is why i come here).

@ foosnik

this forum is full of crazy people, and i'm one of them. if what i say makes any sense, awesome. be a pragmatist, and figure out what works for you.

with kava, though... i think it's important to maintain some kind of variety in your diet. i doubt people were meant to eat the same thing every single day of their lives, even if it's really super good. the body will catch on, then the effects won't be as efficacious, or the body will get sick of it because of accumulation in the system. unless it's something vitally nutritive. or unless that thing is hemp (that's a guess on my part, guys).

variety is important to promote stimulation and refreshment, but at the same time within some parameters. however, i found that once i cut my intake of animal products and got cleaned up, it became a lot easier to gauge the effects of things on the body, and what was causing whatever to happen and why...

great discussion. felt like we accomplished something here today

FooSnik

04-11-2010, 06:46 AM

from what i read there is no evidence of liver damage unless used with alcohol or prescriptions drugs. the reason for that being that kava detoxifies the body putting extra stress on the liver and, to me, that is a beneficial side effect. no other side effects other then that that i could find. it has been used for thousands of years on the islands. of course everything should be used in moderation. any other side effects you know of, billy?

Fortyball

04-11-2010, 09:32 AM

hey lads, im not sure if this has been posted already and im far too lazy at the moment to sift through over a hundred posts but here is a video i stumbled across on youtube.
its a google tech talk given by steven fowkes in december 2009 entitled nutrients for better mental performance. very interesting....

abstract

presented by steven wm. fowkes.

the talk will answer questions like:

1. which nutrients promote optimal brain function?
2. what nutrients are commonly deficient enough to impair mental performance?
3. how can you get a better nights sleep without ambien?
4. what nutrients counteract aspects of aging?
5. is there an alternative to serotonin reuptake inhibitor (sri) antidepressants?
6. what modern nutrition myths lead us to consume products that sabotage healthy brain function?
7. what tests can you get from your doctor?
8. what nutrients affect appetite, alertness, and tension?
9. what nutrient combo will prevent hangovers 90% of the time?

about steven wm. fowkes
steven wm. fowkes is the director of the cognitive enhancement research institute and a co-author of the book smart drugs ii.
he has appeared on larry king live and in two anti-aging documentaries. steve will explain how different nutritions can help people of all ages treat various physical and mental conditions, spanning from genetic disorders such as down syndrome, to adolescent behavior problems and on to senility and alzheimer's disease in the elderly. he will also speak about using nutrients to address memory problems as well as verbal and multi-tasking challenges that the testosterone-poised homo sapiens (i.e., men) are commonly known for. in the q&a feel free to ask him how to use nutrients to improve ones sense of humor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pa-buwi3q4

_X_

04-11-2010, 10:40 AM

i just read the wiki article on it, and there was a 2009 australian study done that showed the water-soluble extract kava that the islanders use didn't cause liver problems, and as a result they lifted the ban in australia...

what you said, foosnik, about liver stress from detoxification, would also make sense as to why the english findings, given what the general population probably has at any given time in their systems, would have the results it did...

sounds like some pretty good stuff

FooSnik

04-11-2010, 11:38 AM

@ x:

well yes, the world is full of crazy people. depending on what your definition of what c@razy is, you sound more sane then today's standard of what the norm is.

i have ceased thinking so much. there are no absolutes, unless there is, of course. and you should always keep variety in your diet, unless you shouldn't, of course.

such is the paradox. i just do stuff till i'm tired of it and move on. or else i will drive myself crazy thinking about when and what to do how.

billybobbutterball

04-11-2010, 03:50 PM

i need to have 10 characters to post this thing...since my text is included within the quotes....that should do it:o

@ bilbo

## (bill said: the term vegan does not automatically translate to healthy eating)

x said: neither does eating meat. can't have it both ways.

## good grief, x, i never implied otherwise! (is this one of your infamous "stealth" tactics? :p ) i know that you don't think much of facts but the fact here is that the overwhelming majority of people auditing this site are moving toward vegetarianism -- they are not rushing off to become vociferous, flesh-devouring carnivores!

# i've been there, done both -- and about everything in between. i'm simply trying to encourage some to look carefully before they leap...if they do so, there is a better chance that their choice of foods will work out for them, not sabotage them. i already posted the following as a helpful lead in checking out one's dietary balance..it is not perfect, but it offers some help in selecting the makeup of one's diet.

## "that seems a viable path. i was with an mlm company long ago. the president was a learned biologist. he had made a tape based on the theme: 'how i got well by throwing out my multivitamins' he made a good case for such. they can interfere rather than help.

## in formulating your diet you might find "nutritiondata.com" of great help... you can select your foods then find out how they stack up nutritionally.my most important options turned out to be: broccoli, cauliflower, bok choy, carrots (for vitamin a) green peas, string beans, these vegetables rated tops in weight loss, max heath nutrition, complete protein, lowest in promoting weight gain. i don't cook them, i run them through my vm.x blender. at least they don't pretend to look like pseudo meatloaf! supposedly the cauliflower and broccoli need less pesticides than most other crops.

## i generally avoid grains on principle, but recently i've been experimenting with doing 48 hours worth of sprouting fantastic mayan quinoa mixed along with plain old, sprouted red lentils." now, x, what the sam hill is wrong with offering this tool for use in helping refine a newbies' diet? ...if they add in apple pie, white bread, corn flakes, et al they will get a better idea of a disaster better avoided. and i also advised innocents in the diet thingie to study the work of dr. stanley bass...who has been around since the beginning of the natural hygiene society -- the great advocate and promoter of vegetarianism...bass was asked by the founding father to evaluate the product of the movement...i.e., the health of third generation children.

x says: there's nothing wrong with trying to emulate the meat-based foods you grew up with. but if you look at how most non western cultures organize their cuisine, you'll find they tend to situate it around the starch rather than the meat, and perhaps taking that angle would enable one to be less laborious in meal planning, when meat isn't the primary foodstuff.

## what do you use for starch? gmo potatoes that kill test animals by altering their intestinal flora to generate pesticides? people need to know these things.

i don't recommend regular soy product consumption, either. every now and then is okay, but definitely not frequently, nor as a regular meat substitute. there are more viable alternatives, of course... however as a soy product, miso paste, because it is fermented, is perfectly fine.

## ok., i'll buy that on principle...but what got me early on was a nice young lady who's
signature line was running something like, dah dah dah..and soy is here to stay. aagghh! i know, free will, etc.but she is influencing others...i'm just trying to set the record straight.

x says, as per the great debate, then no more... like i said, presentation's crucial. don't be tempted to become the truth bearing bringer of light. the truth is simply a point of view, no matter how convincing... lest divine intervention seek you out again! (or not.)

## yeah, uninvited help is a recipe for karmic disaster...no good deed goes unpunished.

## something i read last night in cannons 2nd volume...it was like ...that diet comes to an individual rather than the reverse. illness can be regarded as a positive rather than a negative since it is most likely a sought-after learning experience..

## omraam mikael aivanhov states that the blessing of a foodstuff is more important than its material mixture...he learned this early on when he had to go without breakfast -- yet must do heavy work all day with the forest brigade. his mother had only a small scrape of bread to give him for later she prayed for it to give her son strength, she wrapped it lovingly and put it in his pack...at the end of the day he was still going strong..

snip

to foo and doc., x says..great discussion. felt like we accomplished something here today

billybobbutterball

04-11-2010, 04:47 PM

hi,foo (keep thinking of foo-fighter from ww2 ....any connection there?)

anyway, link below lists numerous side effect concerns linked
to kava kava

seems that intake over 310 grams per week is problematical
this site was updated in 2009 so i don't know how it fits in
with the action in australia also during 2009.

http://www.personalhealthzone.com/kavakava.html

there are cognitive and skin problems resulting from overuse..

i don't really know zilch, but suggest anyone best approach
it with caution.

wonder if it could be compared at all to st. john's wort??:confused:

billbob

FooSnik

04-12-2010, 03:32 PM

foo-fighter... i like that but i didn't think of that. just tried to throw some letters together that no one else had. i had just read my chinese horoscope, right before i joined this forum, which is a fire snake. fire snake, foo snik.

i see there is some side effects. :( oh well. should still be ok in moderation. thank you much for the info. its good to know.

the weak muscles side effect remids me of a funny side effect of beer and soy milk. they both raise estrogen and lower testosterone levels in the body. they have been shown to make the body soft and grow breasts.

ah well, to bad about kava. i guess i will have to find another way to calm my frayed nerves. i feel like a cat with his tail in a light socket.

:)

onething

04-12-2010, 11:45 PM

the health food stores carry several good herbs and herb combos for calming the nerves.

how about blessing food...i don't quite know how to go about it. does anyone here want to share their techniques?

billybobbutterball

04-13-2010, 11:33 AM

(i meant, one angle! in the heading...sheesh!)

hi! onething.

i'm at a loss myself in exactly how to go about ritualistically "blessing" food,..but perhaps the last section of this trilogy concerning the human condition gives us some hints towards a spiritual attitude we should best aspire to

aivanhov discusses...

prevention
« a man owns a beautiful car. he is extremely vigilant with regard to its maintenance, he uses the highest grade petrol in it, fits it with the best tyres, and so on. but when he gets into it he is not careful, nor is he able to keep his self-control. he performs rough and dangerous manoeuvres, he drives at great speed, he brakes suddenly, and then of course this poor man-handled car soon breaks down. well, this is how most human beings treat their physical body. they are not in the least bit aware of the marvel their organism represents, in what workshops it was built, how much work the spirit put into it and how much it cost the creator to perfect it. you will say you treat your physical body with care and respect. maybe, but that is not enough. if you really want to be in good health then you must be attentive, provident and careful, in other words avoid impassioned states, chaotic thoughts and emotions, all of which weaken and wear out your organism. »

omraam mikhael aivanhov

being prudent

« it is true that medical science is making great progress, but this is no excuse for people to live imprudently. if they fail to educate themselves in the science of life, medicine will remain powerless in spite of all its progress. while it is trying to cure certain diseases, the disorders people continue to produce in their organisms by their unreasonable lives will cause new ones to appear. when you puncture a rubber ball, a depression forms in it. you may try to correct it, but the depression will appear elsewhere.

i can tell you that even if medicine has made enormous advances and continues to make even greater ones, this does not give human beings license to live however they please, without taking certain principles into account. nor will any psychologist, psychiatrist or psychoanalyst ever manage to restore balance in someone who believes he can transgress with impunity the laws of the moral and spiritual worlds. »

omraam mikhaël aïvanhov

food
« one of people's main concerns nowadays is to be able to eat healthy food. it is of course highly desirable that food should not be contaminated, but it is also important for those people who are involved in its preparation to be aware that the food they handle becomes impregnated with their emanations and subsequently passes these on to those who eat it. people use their hands to prepare food and a person's hands magically transmit something of this person's quintessence. chefs, cooks, bakers and all those people who prepare food for their families on a daily basis must know this law of chemistry and magic. with this knowledge they will then get into the habit of touching food, conscious that what they are holding in their hands will contribute to the edification of the body of people nearby and far away, persons known and persons unknown. this is a huge responsibility and it is therefore worthwhile for them to endeavour to be dwelling in the best inner state when they prepare food, fostering thoughts of good health, peace and light for those who are due to eat it. »

omraam mikhael aivanhov

hope this helps somewhat. love, :) bbb

billybobbutterball

04-13-2010, 01:21 PM

it has come to my attention that some recent conversations with mr x had become unpleasantly strident...and that my own role in such was over the top. this is embarrassing as i am one of the sites 5 moderators...it is part of my job to keep things on an even keel, and to squelch any "flames" that are launched, much less generate any of my own making.

so my humble apologies to all concerned.

yeah, we evidently had a basic failure to communicate.

one comment that i made seemed a study in moronicity...i claimed that i was basically a vegetarian -- except for..dah dah dah.....it was correctly pointed out that there is no "except for's" allowed. however in feeble defense i would try to claim that i was indeed a vegetarian 6 days of every week...but that is a stretch seeing that i use raw eggs from cage-free hens in my smoothies. moronic.

another confusion in my mind is that i have a particular idea about the term, vegetarian.
in my mind-set, to be vegetarian means being a vegetable eater...when i shop i go to the produce department, not the bakery. the only visit i make to the middle isles is to occasionally pick up a 12 pack of bathroom tissue.

it seems that grass seeds are often considered "grains" not vegetables...fruits are fruits.

so, although all falls under the blanket term, vegetarian, we have some who aspire to be grainarians while yet others are fruitarians -- with those i especially admire, being the noble vegetabletarians -- but i have only contempt for the socially despicable beanarians:p

my apologies to mr x. for appearing to attack him personally. in fact i had my head in an entirely different venue....and i confess that my secret desire to be a stand-up comic sometimes comes bounding out wanting to entertain at any price.:o

thanks all for putting up with me.....much luv, respect, etc. billybobspratfall:)

finis

islandgirl

04-13-2010, 10:08 PM

try the herb valerian. i use it every night and it really calms well. i used to use it during the day too and found it very calming but it didn't put me to sleep (in a very bad marriage:( )

i'd also like to add to others that have mentioned hempseed protein powder.....wow, this stuff is like a miracle substance. it detoxifies (loaded w/chlorophyll) and has so many wonderful ingredients natural to it ....like a whole lot of the essential fatty acids (the omega fats) and the best plant source of the all important one, which is gla (gamma linolenic acid) and boy is that one hard to find and not in regular foods. i use hempseed pro powder every morning in my fruit smoothie.

i literally cured myself of ms with gla as many of you may know they also do in europe, but here i'm still no one talks about it. i had ms really bad and was told i'd be in a wheelchair soon by the asst professor of medicine at ucla and went home mad as hell about that. thus began my journey into self healing and natural cures.........

anyway, try the valerian to keep you calm and serene as it really works well.

cheri

onething

04-13-2010, 11:10 PM

but billybob, the term vegetarian is commonly understood to mean someone who doesn't eat meat. the rest are called vegans.

valerian does help me sleep. also melatonin and 5 htp. but i believe foo is looking not for something to sleep but to be calm.

as for me, i am fascinated by the consciousness of insects and often try to penetrate it. i seem to have more luck with them than with more complex creatures, although i had a moment of deep communion with a horse once. and think of the poor plants! they can't even run, all they can do is silently scream...and thus they engage in chemical warfare.

kickleeoutthevan

04-14-2010, 01:32 AM

does the law of one say anything about eating animals? i have been a vegetarian for almost two years now and i am pondering on going back to eating meat. the reason i stopped eating meat was because i wanted to cause the least harm possible. i feel we kill plants too. is it a service to self action to eat animals to live? i want to cause the least harm possible and reach enlightment. i know even jesus fished, buddha ate meat and they are two great examples. but moving into this new dimension of love should we eat meat and kill animals? or should we just eat plants which do not feel pain and do not have a nervous system?

ive been a veg for about 6 years. yeh ive considered going back 2 meat. ive ate meat twice in dat tyme. just to see if it was as bad as i remembered and i agreed it was. if yr gonna eat meat stay away from factory farmed fast food thats jacked with hormones. go out and kill it yrself if u need it so bad. i don't have it in me 2 kill so i deprive myself. do what thou wilt. it's your spiritual journey. peace, lee

FooSnik

04-14-2010, 07:49 AM

thank you islandgirl and onething. i will try valerian root. i tried melatonin but it didn't do much for me. i get to sleep ok but my sleep is rarely refreshing. i am going to start blessing my food too. maybe that will help me to slow down and create my reality more. sometimes i feel like i am being dragged around by my responsibilities.

wow, cured yourself of ms? you go girl! and hemp seed powder was a big part of that? i will be checking that out. my friend has ms. his eyesight goes in and out on him, among other things. must be hell to have your body's elictrical system keep shorting out.

billybobbutterball

04-14-2010, 12:26 PM

but billybob, the term vegetarian is commonly understood to mean someone who doesn't eat meat. the rest are called vegans.

snip

and think of the poor plants! they can't even run, all they can do is silently scream...and thus they engage in chemical warfare.

onething, you are absolutely correct about the exclusiveness of the term "vegetarian". it was my warped mental perception that is the problem. i'm technically an omnivore ...but i illogically fall back on thinking of the eggs and once-weekly token portion of bison as being in the largest part mere neutral 'medicine'. (which is how george bernard shaw excused his daily liver pills)

i also have an "idealized" view of the term, "vegetarian" in that i think of it as consisting of the healthiest food-stuffs imaginable, and with virtually all selections consumed raw.

a memory just came to me. i was influenced by the late norman walker -- who was a nut on juicing. i bought a norwalk juicer (his design). i got 50lb sacks of carrots from an ashram cooperative in denver for like $5.00! after several months i didn't need a suntan...i had turned orange! i didn't realize what had happened to me until my son told me i looked like some weird alien from a star trek episode.

i really liked your true quip about veggie's capable chemical warfare...and now they are being upgraded to wmd by monsanto.

best bbb

islandgirl

04-15-2010, 08:39 AM

foosnik,

tell your friend that gla rebuilds the myelin sheath that surrounds the nerves . this is well known and proven, period. thank you very much to our medical community for keeping this info from folks suffering from nerve diseases......wouldn't want to be them during the 'life review'. :eek:

so the answer is to de-tox big time and i use the hempseed pro pwdr or you could add as well msm which is cheap, natural and really detoxes down to the bone marrow.....and also totally cures fibromyalgia, by the way.

the last step to assist is to build up the immune system , which the above does, but i'd take a healthy diet very seriously, giving up alcohol, sugar and flour products. (an occasional relapse here won't kill you).... i also supplemented with lots of beta carotene and quality vitamins during the beginning of this and now i just do my hemp drinks and eat healthy . i've turned into a vegetarian/fruitarian just because it's what my body wanted .

i'm 62 and very, very active taking care of horses, giving lessons and riding several horses, every day. i regularly lift 45# saddles up and onto horses and throw 50# feed bags over my shoulder like a purse, so yes, i have stamina like crazy.....and very mentally sharp. also, i have stabalized my body condition and duriing the last 7 years have maintained 122 lbs @ 5'5" tall and that is considering a large muscle percentage, which weighs more than fat !

so anythiing is possible with a greatful, loving and positive outlook/attitude always and taking care of the body as we discussed. tell your friend to go for it......do the work and reap the rewards.......onward and upward :-)

love to all.......cheri

FooSnik

04-16-2010, 08:50 AM

islandgirl,

wow. congratulations and thank you for sharing that. that is a story i will pass on to my friend and share with others.

i wonder what deteriorated the nerve casing in the first place. any ideas? and i am so sick of the greed that keeps healthy information like this from coming to light. so sick of it. like chris rock said, "the money is in the medicine, not the cure."

i will tell my friend what you said about eating healthy but right now he is of the mentality that, "life is short and i don't want to deny myself life's indulgences." but we will see.

:)

capt.libra

04-16-2010, 09:50 AM

blessing your food is quite simple. it is done purely by intention, sending it love and light ect.
namaste'

islandgirl

04-16-2010, 06:50 PM

foosnik,

the nerve sheaths are damaged by toxins eating away at them. could be anything, even just daily build up to your environment....home or work. sometimes our work or homes have especially high toxins or we take medicines that do it, but i personally think all of us have some degree of damage already done living in today's world so i would think it would be a good thing for everyone to detox with something with high chlorophyll or msm (organic sulfur) in it and then get going taking either a supplement w/ gla (400-500mgs daily) or the hempseed pro pwr or both. this way you hit it with both guns blazing........get rid of toxins that caused the problem and rebuild back to healthy nerves.

let me know by pm or here if you have any other questions or comments. i just love the open minds here .....we are all learning from each other after all :)

bunches of love and light,
cheri

onething

04-17-2010, 12:08 AM

i'm just saying, i really love insects, they represent abundant life to me. i love the way they are so everywhere, the way they come in waves just like the wildflowers do, about two weeks for each species, and how they sing and screech and chirp, making noises of life tirelessly. the cricket is my totem animal.

i would never dream of eating them.

dLight

04-25-2010, 07:30 AM

hi guys / gals

i wanted to share this video of dr. brownstein's talk on the importance of iodine on our overall health:
-endocrine / hormonal health
-breast and testicular cancers
-autoimmune disorders
-heavy metal detox
-weight loss
-decalcify pineal gland
-detoxify including heavy metals
-many more....

moderator....link not active. removed

note: the iodine formula channeled through
edgar cacye is named, atomidine -- 70+
years and still going strong!. bbb

2010... believe in miracles!
peace, blessings and grace!

Amber

04-25-2010, 05:01 PM

ochratoxin a which is produced by certain fungi has been shown to be carcinogenic and teratogenic. certain foods are best avoided to reduce its occurrence in the diet. the list of foods to avoid is quite long, and left me being very doubtful about just what to eat to be confident of not consuming ota. fungi grow just about everywhere, and spores can be carried by wind. i researched a little online and found the following about reducing their effects by consumption of garlic and orange juice. urine was used as a marker:

"...garlic and fresh orange juice effectively reduced the levels of ota in urine. after two weeks of consumption 20g garlic and a cup of orange daily morning the reducing percentage of ota in participants urine were 100 and 87.78% respectively" (zohair et al, "a study of human exposure to ochratoxin a in a selected population in egypt." american-eurasian j. agric. & environ. sci., 1(1): 19-25, 2006).

i don't want to research more now, so i'll probably eat more garlic and be more motivated to drink oj daily. comments, anyone?

dLight

04-26-2010, 12:58 AM

if you do oj, remember it has to be fresh. the reconstituted stuff has too many additives and doesn't have the vitality. i wonder if it is the vit. c that has that effect or not. there are much better sources for vit. c than oj!
i wonder, oregano oil and other natural substances that have anti-fungal properties might have similar effects.

i would not worry about ota or any other cancer causing thing. cancer is the bodies natural response to toxicity... environmental, mental or emotional.
be wise about your choices!

i am of the opinion that many people with cancer want to remain in victim-hood, versus taking full responsibility for their lives and educating themselves, then taking action and implementing the required changes. even if it flies in the face of what is accepted by "modern" society.

peace and oneness!

billybobbutterball

04-27-2010, 11:38 AM

all hail, fellow fat fighters!

even painlessly staying on a diet, trimming-down is easier imagined than done. there are some major exceptions to the commonly assumed simple relationship of calorie intake in determining one's reading on the fat scale.

cutting down food calories to an apparent deficiency has some hangups...when calories are cut the body metabolism slows down in order to buffer the result....and it is maddening to cut calories in half only to find one adapting to the lower intake without further weight loses...or to find one losing muscle --scavenged to produce energy -- with insult added to injury when one's fat ratio goes up!...one has simply become skinny/fat. aghhh!

furthermore, ofttimes an experienced dieter finds that what once worked no longer does the job...the body has grown smarter and has learned to defeat the best laid plans hatched in the lofty cerebellum --- which has ideas contrary to the body's primeval wisdom of knowing that fat stored is vital survival insurance against bleak starvation.... after all, being stranded on an arctic iceberg following a plane crash, one will find that an extra 30 lb of body fat fuel --rather than an excess of low-calorific lean muscle -- might just keep you alive long enough until miraculously rescued at the last minute.

aside from nutritional tricks of the trade, exercise is a key factor. but the exercise needed is not that of long, grueling endurance training -- which, ironically, favors fat-storage and the conversion of desirable muscle into mere fuel through the process of deamination!

this link will introduce the needful to the new approach in generating body-fat reduction. if you are now young, lean and fit, well, stick it in a folder for the time you will desperately need it!

http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2010/04/27/reducing-calories-alone-is-not-enough.aspx

one extra consideration not mentioned above is that of the vital importance of "cheat" days. when calories are cut the metabolism slows down to adapt to the reduced food supply...this is why people hit plateaus that last for months. once-a-week bonus calories will kick up the metabolism to a higher level (the body is tricked into thinking starvation is over) this increase in metabolism rate will last about one week....following this boost the exercise and reduced food intake will tap into and galvanize fat stores as energy yet another week! but be careful in that you might be tricked into lusting after rich food and end up continuing the binge! :eek:

hope this will help someone locked into frustration mode!

just keep mind that you are a soul borrowing a body -- not a body with a soul!

billybobbetterbod :)

derek

04-27-2010, 08:38 PM

i found this post from david archived from 2002.

http://divinecosmos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2364

from: "tony p."

> i want sources (of dietary guidance) that are from channelings which ever
way this goes.

dw: this has been well covered on my website before. i first came across
dietary information in "we the arcturians" by dr. norma milanovich. the
edgar cayce readings had extensive information about diet that have become
the subject of several books. it is amazing how few cayce people here in vb
actually follow those guidelines, though. whitley strieber was strongly told
by his et contacts to quit all refined sugar. gordon michael scallion
couldn't eat junk food once his mystical experiences began without getting
sick. i have an ongoing acne condition with my skin that prevents me from
eating other than an outrageously strict diet. the law of one series has
dietary guidelines as well.

every person who gets a reading from me is run through a dietary assessment.
i have worked extensively with the higher forces to refine dietary
suggestions. here's the bottom line of what all these sources suggest, when
taken together:

no:

unfiltered "tap" water, refined sugar, white flour, dairy / butter / cheese
/ yogurt / ice cream, nutra sweet / saccharine / diet soda, eggs, meat
(except fish that is not farm-raised,) fried food / heated oils, canola oil,
wheat, corn, boxed cereals, white potatoes, white rice, peanuts, cashews,
msg (can go by many different names including anything "autolyzed" or
"hydrolyzed" as well as "spices" and "natural flavors"), pre-packaged foods,
preservatives, vinegar, black pepper, refined salt (sea salt ok),
microwaving, conventional dish detergent, conventional laundry detergent and
fabric softener, conventional mint toothpaste, caffeine, nicotine, alcohol,
all mind-altering drugs, stale air / overabundant positive ions, excessive
air conditioning / heating

food combining:

- fruit and vegetables should not be combined in one meal, as they mold and
ferment, causing health problems and impeding digestion.

- grain and meat should not be combined in one meal, for the same reason.
eat meat with lightly steamed or raw vegetables.

- dairy, if ever taken at all, should only be done by itself.

- citrus fruit should not be combined with any other fruit for the first
half-hour after eating.

- no water / liquids for at least 30 minutes before a meal and 2 hours after
you are finished. (you only have to wait 30 minutes if you ate fresh fruit -
longer for dried.) this will rinse away enzymes and inhibit digestion,
leading first to weakness and eventually degenerative diseases. this means
that soups are out.

yes:

the optimal diet consists of primarily raw / living foods, especially
organic vegetables, fruits and nuts. this definitely makes you have to think
creatively as to where to go and what to have if you want to eat out - best
to stick with ethnic (chinese, indian, thai, middle eastern) or health food
restaurants. keep at least two glasses of water near to your bed and drink
them within 2-3 minutes of waking up, for the torsion-field benefits as well
as health reasons, and also drink at least two glasses between meals as per
the "water cycles" - two hours after / 45 minutes before.

to retool your mind to eat like this, it is essentially required that you
stop being influenced by television or it won't work. everything becomes
"fruits and salad, fruits and salad." you do not need to eat "protein" to
anywhere near the degree that the mainstream would have you believe, nor do
you need grain for carbohydrates. fresh organic fruits and vegetables can
provide everything the body needs - and we have herbivorial intestines.

so, eat at least one huge organic salad a day, and one significant fruit
meal, which many choose to do in the morning - i tend to do it at night. it
is best to go for fruits that are less as opposed to more sweet. unsugared /
unsulphured dried organic fruits can provide needed carbohydrates between
larger meals, as well as munching on almonds, sunflower seeds, brazil nuts,
walnuts, etc. good to eat one avocado a day for healthy fats, as well as
your complete essential oil blend of balanced omega 3, 6 and 9, which can be
used as salad dressing combined with sea salt, lemon juice and perhaps some
green tabasco sauce. the salad should automatically have at least one cup of
nuts on it, such as sunflower seeds and pumpkin seeds, as well as at least
one large shredded carrot. i invariably dice half an avocado for each salad.

continues here http://divinecosmos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2364

dLight

04-28-2010, 12:52 AM

if you are considering dieting, please see my message about iodine a few messages back...
and here is another very important video of a true scientist that has linked obesity with our modern diets of carbohydrates and the use of hfcs (high fructose corn syrup - which i have heard is contaminated with mercury, since it is used in the process!! can you believe that!)

low fat, low calorie diets add to obesity, not decrease it!
carbohydrate messes with your insulin, which controls fat storage in the body.
obesity has increased with the popularization of fructose in the north american diet.
both carbs and hfcs affects the body and hormones in a particular way that tells the body to store fat.

hello! that is why we are seeing problems with obesity and juvenile diabetes and such!

so, if you want to hear the research and understanding behind it all, please watch this video....
http://www.dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

which i found in this article...
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/01/09/alternative-explanation-for-why-people-get-fat.aspx

sweat to the oldies!
peace

conundrum

04-28-2010, 12:52 AM

i used this stuff years ago with certain results.. one interesting effect was the decrease of sunburn kept energy levels up ect good for ducking weaving stepping away from heavy objects quickly ect.

removing milk from my diet and any thing containing milk eliminated all acne within 2 weeks .

the optimal diet consists of primarily raw / living foods,
raw yes know the feeling

em1 that is ingest able for human bodies is available google effective microorganisms or beneficial they are even beneficial for the environment .

coneyisland

04-28-2010, 12:51 PM

i can't remember if i've posted on this thread before, but i went vegan back in august of 2009. there's a great video encouraging a plant based diet i saw on youtube the other day, the guy links animal mass slaughter and meat eating with tptb (i think it's called all are one including animals, or something like that). very good vid. really hit the heart of the issue of meat/slavery.

if you don't want to help promote suffering on our planet, which we know makes the rulers stronger, cut down on--or quit eating meat.

OatmealLoverxx

04-30-2010, 01:56 PM

i found this post from david archived from 2002.

http://divinecosmos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2364

no:

unfiltered "tap" water, refined sugar, white flour, dairy / butter / cheese
/ yogurt / ice cream, nutra sweet / saccharine / diet soda, eggs, meat
(except fish that is not farm-raised,) fried food / heated oils, canola oil,
wheat, corn, boxed cereals, white potatoes, white rice, peanuts, cashews,
msg (can go by many different names including anything "autolyzed" or
"hydrolyzed" as well as "spices" and "natural flavors"), pre-packaged foods,
preservatives, vinegar, black pepper, refined salt (sea salt ok),
microwaving, conventional dish detergent, conventional laundry detergent and
fabric softener, conventional mint toothpaste, caffeine, nicotine, alcohol,
all mind-altering drugs, stale air / overabundant positive ions, excessive
air conditioning / heating

why no cashews? i love cashews!!!

billybobbutterball

04-30-2010, 08:46 PM

puzzling question: why no cashews?

in this case i don't know why since cashews are right behind almonds in nutrient density.

from an edgar cayce reccomendation: "rather use the fruit and vegetable diet. the fats should be more from nuts than meats; for these, as we find, would be most helpful - and especially cashew nuts, almonds, filberts, and the like.” (1000-11)

however, going by the sheer volume of ec reccomendations, it seems that almonds are ranked as the top kernal in the kingdom of the nuts.

keep in mind that a couple of nuts will do ya....cayce talks in terms such as 2 almonds a day.
however, you have my permission to add 1/2 of an undoctored, virgin cashew nut to the above mentioned two almonds...

but you do so at your own risk, of course.:cool:

any time bro....luv, billybobbutternut

OatmealLoverxx

05-01-2010, 03:19 PM

did some research, this could be the reason why:

the cashew tree is a fast-growing evergreen that produces a fruit and a nut. the fruit, or cashew apple, is usually discarded since it ferments rapidly. the nut, which is actually a seed, is surrounded by an outer shell that contains urushiol, a skin irritant toxin also found in poison ivy. there is also a toxic resin in the shell layer that can get on the cashew nut itself, making it inedible. to make the cashew seeds edible, most manufacturers use heat, steaming the shell at high temperatures. some companies have developed a special tool that they claim opens the shell without ever letting the toxin get on the cashew.

----------------------------------------

off topic, but i am looking to start an all raw diet asap. i've been looking for the best possible dehydrator (thus far i've been leaning towards getting an [please pm for brand] but idk) before i drop all of that money i figured i'd ask around for advice. i certainly don't want one if it contains bpa, so stainless steel would be nice. help please :)

billybobbutterball

05-06-2010, 12:19 PM

hi, gang.

in short....

our bodies are from 55% to 78% water, so its a no-brainer that in-taking good
water rather than bad is a major health goal.:)

one of the most profound negative impacts on planetary health has been masquerading as a positive, good-guy health boon.:confused:

the truth about bottled water comes as a shock to multi millions of loyal, but brain-washed, consumers... are you one of the victims?

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/05/06/a-movie-about-water-you-need-to-see.aspx

after seeing this vid i'm now even concerned about all my supposedly health-giving freezer-frozen veggies hibernating in their (death-- dealing?) plastic envelopes...:eek:

3d ain't what its cracked up to be! time to move on....i hope.

billybobbanbottles

transiten

05-06-2010, 02:07 PM

hi

well get yourselves a microclustering ph-levelrising waterionizer and see to get the proper brand. change your water, change your life.

transiten

ILoveCoffee

05-12-2010, 09:55 AM

derek

05-12-2010, 04:11 PM

well, i haven't read all of the ra. my nutrition style is i try to eat a basic diet that gives an okay amount of nutrients. sometimes, i don't eat a variety of foods but take a vitamin.

however,a few days ago, i was at the vegetable/fruit section in the store. the prices have gone up on nearly all vegetables here. so, many people are growing foods now. it seems that meats, also, are more filling. maybe there's a way to make veggies more filling, too, but they don't keep me full for as long of a time as starches or meats. my point is that with prices going up on the vegetables and fruits, i don't think one can really get around buying meats (chicken, beef, etc.) and starches. meats and starches are probably not as healthy for us though. since eating more vegetables, i feel much better.

ive noticed i eat much less food since switching to a raw food diet. not to mention the laundry list of other very positive mental, emotional, spiritual, psychic, social, and physical changes. i drink some fresh vegetable juice or a smoothie in the morning, and have some avacado, sunflower seeds, maybe a bannana or two etc and thats all i eat for the day. i don't feel hungry eating like this, in fact i feel better than i ever thought was possible. most hunger is actually emotional hunger disguised as physical hunger. unhealthy and cooked foods are very addicting. once you break that addiction, you eat just enough to really fill you up, and your body needs less and less.

docholiday

05-14-2010, 07:11 AM

ive noticed i eat much less food since switching to a raw food diet. not to mention the laundry list of other very positive mental, emotional, spiritual, psychic, social, and physical changes. i drink some fresh vegetable juice or a smoothie in the morning, and have some avacado, sunflower seeds, maybe a bannana or two etc and thats all i eat for the day. i don't feel hungry eating like this, in fact i feel better than i ever thought was possible. most hunger is actually emotional hunger disguised as physical hunger. unhealthy and cooked foods are very addicting. once you break that addiction, you eat just enough to really fill you up, and your body needs less and less.

i have also noticed the drastic reduction in the food consumption phenomenon after switching to a quasi-raw food diet. i believe that once the body is getting what it needs the signaling from the brain hunger centers in reduced dramatically. the reverse would be true of the standard american diet - better known as sad.

blessings luke

shadowoman52

05-16-2010, 12:24 PM

ever hear that phrase? it was a slogan of the 60's/70's. group consciousness was moving in all kinds of directions at that time.......i, myself, was compelled to become vegan when the smell of cooking meat repulsed me. i think that what we eat is a matter of social influence and personal preference. five hundred years ago we wouldn't have thought of having this discussion, we'd just eat what we could get.

i found that the strict vegan approach was lacking in essential amino acids found in meat and that the diet itself lifted my consciousness levels to such an extent of high frequency vibration that my "head" was always "in the clouds" spiritually. i became too addicted to the "high" and was cautioned by "teachers" to "become grounded!"

with the "chakra" work i do, i use a catch phrase that suits........"feed the root." yea, finding the balance is a good guideline, but sometimes that takes years! it's such a relative experience that is in constant flux.
i like a good steak or piece of prime rib every now and then, but it's not my staple diet.

as far as the plant healers are concerned, i think that plants do feel "pain" on some level we don't understand, yet. (this "wanderer" has the ability to hear the frequency vibration of plant's communications.)

i gravitate toward the native american's practice and follow their guidelines. i thank everything that sustains this body in this lifetime.

you are what you think.................

ILoveCoffee

05-16-2010, 04:17 PM

ive noticed i eat much less food since switching to a raw food diet. not to mention the laundry list of other very positive mental, emotional, spiritual, psychic, social, and physical changes. i drink some fresh vegetable juice or a smoothie in the morning, and have some avacado, sunflower seeds, maybe a bannana or two etc and thats all i eat for the day. i don't feel hungry eating like this, in fact i feel better than i ever thought was possible. most hunger is actually emotional hunger disguised as physical hunger. unhealthy and cooked foods are very addicting. once you break that addiction, you eat just enough to really fill you up, and your body needs less and less.

yes, they say that raw foods are best. also, uncooked vegetables have more of what we need rather than cooked vegetables. i think its because you cook the vitamins out of foods-so i guess that raw foods are probably best. vegetabe juice is healthy, and i need to get back to doing that.

islandgirl

05-16-2010, 04:30 PM

just another plug for the amazing hempseed protein powder that i love, love, love.

i eat raw 99% and my fruit smoothie w/h.p.p. in it is all i need because it has everything our bodies need especially when you load up your smoothie with berries and other fruits.

all the amino acids, essential oils (omegas), loads of chlorophyll and much much more are all in h.p.p. so give it a try folks.......you will feel like a million bucks .....i sure do :-)

Berry Chastain

05-19-2010, 05:42 PM

since my companion ray died a month ago, i have eaten less beef, pork and chicken than i have ever eaten in my previous life. i am repelled by the thought of a stake or a pork chop. i still eat some white meat chicken but more fish than ever, (especially since ray was not a fish eater and i was). however, i am more and more drawn to a vegetarian lifestyle. i am also aware of the alkaline style of eating wherein one avoids acid making food in the diet and concentrates on those food which are alkaline producing in the body which is a natural healthy state. this style of eating, which btw is very similar to the macrobiotic method, is a healing and very beneficial style of nourishment.

it calls for an approximate 70%/30% ratio of alkaline producing foods to acid producing foods which allows for some fish/chicken/meat, sugar-starchy food, dairy products and others, but they must stay under 30% of the food consumed. i will look for a ph factor of 7.5 when i start checking saliva and urine with ph strips.

it is claimed and substantiated that the physical health of an individual maintaining this eating style is increased dramatically. i suspect, as most dieticians are not spiritual individuals as well, have not notice that perhaps the spiritual connection may increase as well.

since i am accepting change in my life, which is first of all required since ray's transition, i have stopped smoking, i have changed my eating habits ie less meat, and there are other changes which have been necessary. each change has been feeling natural so, i am going to gradually transition into this new style of consumption. i will keep you all informed of how it goes.
l&l
berry

billybobbutterball

07-08-2010, 01:21 PM

time to revive and oldie but goodie thread?

how about something politically incorrect?

i received an interesting email concerning the proper classification of a human physiology.
the argument has been advanced in earlier posting in this thread that humans can be classified with herbivores --- nature's innocent vegetarians -- however. this may turn out to be a grossly mistaken assumption....sounds nice and seemingly of spiritual consequence -- but when closely examined it may turn out to be naive.

below is found an alternative view to "naive vegetarianism":

http://www.scienceofhealthindex.com/herbivorecarnivoretxt.pdf

near the end the differences are viably demonstrated in charts comparing aspects
of sheep, wolves and humans.

an interesting note is that gorillas' --who are generally regarded as vegetarian in the wild -- reportedly can not thrive in captivity without the addition of animal protein...it seem that in the wild the gorilla's maintain a peculiar intestinal flora that aids vegetative digestion. (perhaps hso...homeostatic soil organisms?)

other interesting reads coming my way point out that mere diet changes can induce a sense of well-being! which can be misleading since the positive effect is not lasting. it seems that many failed vegetarian's report seemingly hitting a "wall" after mere months or a couple of years. :eek:

oddly enough, fasting can induce a feeling of well-being, and so can cutting back on sleep. but this demonstrates a temporary survival mechanism kicking in as a response to stress...of course if the stress is maintained overlong the counterfeit sense of well-being will be short-lived with the system finally collapsing into a slump.

unfortunately, been there, done that. in fact,too many times -- personality description: ever seeking, ever learning --- but never coming to an understanding of the truth.:o

thoughts/comments? best, bbb

.

onething

07-08-2010, 11:02 PM

i had that experience when i decided to be vegan some years ago. i did it along with a few other positive changes in my life, and felt a great sense of well being for about four months. then i noticed i was getting a bit tired.

after a time i found the weston price website and decided to start buying raw milk. i remember the first day i drank some milk and cooked a couple of farm eggs. i again felt a noticeable sensation of peace descend upon me, and i slept very well.

i think your linked article is quite good, but he seems to leave out omnivores like the bear. they eat lots of fish when they can get it. i am not sure what other meat they eat. i'd like to know what sort of digestion a bear has.

wild humans do eat a fair amount of gathered plant foods, nuts, berries, fruits, edible roots and so forth.

12thUranus

07-09-2010, 08:50 AM

the conclusion i draw from all this is that nutrients, while essential, are not necessary daily. it would be great if we could monitor our digestive nutrient needs readily. impossible- science doesn't even know exactly how the body uses/absorbs/digests nutrients.
too much of anything is a bad thing, and that goes both ways, i.e. too much fasting will kill the body. too much obsessing over eating is bad, as is gorging on meat.

i think i've been given an ability to listen to what my body needs( toot toot ). in this way, i think everybody is capable of it, but evidently not. my son was craving nuts yesterday (a first) and i am fully ready to think his body needed the extra fat in that form.

in a nutshell, your body is an instrument that can be tuned in many many ways. eat what feels right, but listen carefully to it's tune.

billybobbutterball

07-22-2010, 02:31 PM

bbb must confess a particular weakness for reese's peanut butter cups. just typing
out the mere words elicits a major pavlovian reaction; i would guess that 20% of those reading this sentence are experiencing a bit of distracting mouth-watering themselves.

getting to the science of the thing we have the renowned dr. allen s. josephs' recent
blog in a vitacost newsletter............

chocolate is a universal comfort food. it makes you forget your worries while it's in your mouth and afterwards leaves you feeling temporarily uplifted. but apart from its reputation for helping the blues in popular culture, little scientific research exists to confirm chocolate's actual role in altering mood.

recently, researchers at the university of california delved into the topic. they asked 1,000 men and women about their chocolate consumption, and measured their levels of sadness on a standard scale. it was found that sad individuals ate about nine servings of chocolate a month, while those who weren't sad ate about five. those who scored highest on the mood tests-indicating severe sadness-ate the most chocolate: almost 12 servings a month. the authors concluded that feeling blue is significantly related to higher chocolate consumption.

eating excessive amounts of chocolate could be a psychological response to having a low mood. the researchers pointed out that because it's thought to improve mood, sad people may be “self-medicating” by eating more chocolate.

chocolate is known to trigger the release of certain feel-good chemicals, called endorphins, in the brain. it's also a rich source of antioxidants, which offer health benefits beyond boosting mood, including cardiovascular and cognitive health support. eating small amounts of chocolate-particularly dark chocolate-can be healthy for you. i suggest eating dark chocolate with 60 to 80 percent cocoa so as to get more chocolate while limiting the intake of sugar.

if you're feeling chronically sad and notice yourself regularly binging on chocolate, you may want to examine your mood and consider other options. there are a number of nutrients that may help support healthy mood including omega-3 epa and dha essential fatty acids, sam-e, 5-htp and st. john's wort.

as always, to your good health,
dr. allen s. josephs

bbb sez, i think the above has some typos....from my own experience it should read 12 servings per day -- not per month....( let's get real, dr. j. !)

onething

07-23-2010, 09:57 PM

yeah, i'm thinking like, even the really sad people go nearly three days between chocolate?

ILoveCoffee

07-24-2010, 11:00 AM

yeah, i'm thinking like, even the really sad people go nearly three days between chocolate?

i love chocolate too, but also if you buy the reduced fat cookies (devil's food cookies) they are just as good as any other chocolate. right now, i'm trying to cut back on salty foods, but i just have developed a daily craving for salty foods. the strange thing is that i find i only like to eat cereal at certain times and not really often at all. maybe i am losing my sweet tooth somewhat. however, i still love chocolate, but am starting to prefer saltier foods (except for right now).
i'm not a vegetarian. i eat more vegetables now, though. i wonder how vegans still maintian energy levels? do they all take vitamins?

billybobbutterball

07-25-2010, 12:48 PM

i love coffee wrote:

i love chocolate too, but also if you buy the reduced fat cookies (devil's food cookies) they are just as good as any other chocolate. right now, i'm trying to cut back on salty foods, but i just have developed a daily craving for salty foods. the strange thing is that i find i only like to eat cereal at certain times and not really often at all. maybe i am losing my sweet tooth somewhat. however, i still love chocolate, but am starting to prefer saltier foods (except for right now).
i'm not a vegetarian. i eat more vegetables now, though. i wonder how vegans still maintain energy levels? do they all take vitamins?

bbb replies.

greetings dear coffee person.

i would think that cookies are something else again as they bring a lot more nutritional complexity into the equation. i think the idea was that the researchers were trying to isolate elements in the chocolate beyond the broad concept of "comfort foods" per se.

as for salt i've read that sugar and sodium chloride are the manufactures double-whammy addictive tools to enrapture customers into gulping down whole bagful's of goodies -- only to turn right around and come back for more! :eek:

your vegetarian question is a real hot potato...suggest you read through the whole nutrition thread -- including those in the archives -- to see some conflicting comments....no, not all vegetarian/vegans etc take vitamins. actually the term vegetarian is far too inclusive to be useful; in fact i think that the only broader classification would be that of "eaters".

about coffee.....that is another loaded subject. there are health-seekers on both sides as to whether it is evil or good....interestingly enough there is a learned faction who damn it as a drink but praise its abilities when used in enemas. these doctors claim that taking it internally from the other end stimulates the liver to safely detoxify (if that is the right term) but when consumed as a drink the caffeine acts as a toxic agent that over-stimulates and eventually over stresses and breaks down the body... yeah, i've tried it both ways. but don't tell anybody. (bad for the image)

best, bbb

taking too much salt is not a good idea. ( unrefined sea or himalayan salts have their advocates.)..one way around this salt craving problem is to mix potassium chloride with the sodium chloride... the potassium has a "salty taste" so fits right in....that way the vitally important balance of sodium and potassium is maintained

ILoveCoffee

08-04-2010, 10:01 AM

billybobbutterball

08-04-2010, 03:11 PM

i have noticed that i have cut back on salt, and now it is like i don't have the same cravings for it. since now i use a salt substitute, and rarely eat as much salty foods, the cravings have almost went away. apparently it is true that they put things in foods to make us buy even more of them. this, combined with working out some, has helped me to lose a few pounds, too. it's just that many people do not realize, i know that i didn't, how much salt is in certain foods we eat every day.
my coffee habit is not much better, but it's easier to cut back on it if you can think of how good water is for your body.

hi, coffee love

glad you have the salt thing under control....what are the ingredients of the salt substitute?

i've been experimenting with coffee in the morning. before i do anything else i drink about 20 oz of water. i make a cup of coffee using some great stuff (two different brands)from a local health store. i boil the water, dump in the freshly ground coffee then turn off the heat and let it simmer while i fire up the 'puter to check if the end of the world has come yet. (so far it hasn't...or at least it has not been disclosed as being so yet) after a couple of minutes i pour the coffee through a fine mesh thing at the end of a handle (this is not good...should be through a natural paper filter as it supposedly removes rumored negative toxins...)

now here is the kicker, coffee releases fat into the blood stream (if i remember right ) if one exercises immediately the body will preferentially burn the fat for energy...if you merely sit around then the window of opportunity slams shut and all you are left with is agitated nerves and more fat.:eek:

so, i slip on my bruce jenner's olympic triathlete championship shoes; pin on my mp3 player and hit the track...after a few hundred yards down course i'm warmed up so then i'm able to maintain an aggressive waddle all around and about the foxridge trailer court community. a mile or two will do it... when i get back i think about preparing a late breakfast...early lunch?

keep in mind that this is on an empty stomach...any dietary sugar in the bloodstream activates insulin which will stifle the metabolism and shut it down.there are some more sophisticated angles to this routine but the above should help a bunch.

i don't think the coffee strategy should be maintained indefinitely...best to take some long breaks.

all above is my opinion, obviously fed by other's more learned opinions... so follow your instincts, or better advice.

question: is taking good care of your borrowed 2d body entirely service to self? well, i figure that i've got 49% to ration out.:p

about reducing cravings. i was using stevia as a sweetener....but my body got used to it and i became craving more and more sweetening....like you with salt, dropping the sweetening
made food things a whole lot easier.. oddly enough my tongue is now more sensitive and can pick up subtle, natural flavors that were masked before...

good luck! and thanks so much for the progress report!!

bill g aka bbb

noppy

08-09-2010, 06:03 AM

since i had an meeting with my shadow self i felt verry sad and guilty. that i decided to eat what i real feel like to eat and not what my mind tells me to eat.i only eat junk food so i can experience the joy of eating them agian but than i won't eath it for 3 weeks or serveral months. depens on what kind of experience it will give me and what i will choose that it shall give me.

billybobbutterball

08-09-2010, 03:47 PM

since i had an meeting with my shadow self i felt very sad and
guilty that i decided to eat what i really feel like eating and not
what my mind tells me to eat; i now only eat junk food in order
that i can experience the joy of eating them -- but than i won't
eat them again for 3 weeks, or perhaps even for several months.
all depends on what kind of experience it will give me and what
i determine it shall give me.

i had to read noopy's original a couple of time over to get the gist of it...
the above translation from english to english is my take on it...

now about tea. health benefits or no?? linked to lower risk of death?

this is what i picked up from a health letter...

"japanese researchers analyzed the relationship between green
tea consumption and the risk of death among 14,000 elderly
subjects over six years, people who consumed seven or
more cups ( like 4 mugs usa) of green tea daily (compared
with those who consumed one cup or less) were 76% less
likely to die from cardiovascular disease and about 31 % less
likely to die from colorectal cancer."

(suzuki e. annals of epidemiology, 2009;19:732-739. )

seven cups a day! that's a stretch from a mere one dose or less a day!

lot of questions here but for better or worse i'm increasing my green tea
ration... to my thinking tea is horribly overpriced especially when in tea bags.
much of the so-called "green" tea appears anything but when in some cases
it is oxidized into brown--which isn't a good sign healthwize.

i picked up an 8 oz bulk container of loose japanese twiggy tea for only $5.00. and it
is a healthy green.(food dye?:eek:) since it is rather coarse i stick it into
my coffee mill to give it a twirl. i dump the powder into hot water...when ready to
use i pour it through a strainer then save the residue for augmenting my
my blender fixins. (throwing away whetted leaves seems a big
waste )

a thought..i assume that drinking tea in japan is marked by ceremony...since
a good mind-set imprints water could this have a beneficial aspect beyond
mere in-taking tea nutrients? if focused thought modifies water, should
the same also work for tea.? i would think/hope so!

sip up!! billybobbutterball

noppy

08-09-2010, 04:15 PM

thank you for translating my grammer. i just suck at any grammer no matter if it's spanish, german or my native language, dutch.

dear noppy, my fixing grammer is a hazardous affair when it concerns accuracy... i see that you speak german, spanish and dutch....
that makes you tri-lingual. do you know what they call a person who speaks only one language?

answer: an american.

best, bbb

billybobbutterball

09-16-2010, 12:17 PM

well, not dead...just bringing it back on front stage

comments on david's latest blog has seen much heated interchange between the pure and the profane eating advocates... i added some comments that touch on the issues...much of the material has been posted earlier, but this pulls several issues together...it was recommended that those interested see the forum thread...in case they come by this makes it easier to find.

##
below posted on david's blog....

hi everyone---( which friendly greeting encompasses breatharians through ethical cannibals ):)

a note to meg: meg, i have no idea how to pm (private message) you for information on a bio-available plant source of b-12 ...i checked the forum and there is no less than 7 megs! if you would please go to the forum and pm one billybobbutterball it would be appreciated. as for myself i augment by using methylcobalamin...which is probably derived from bacterial sources.

some other oddities:
i understand that the alchoholic anonymous 12 step program resulted from
a reading requested of edgar cayce...which considering david's later experience with the 12 steppers has a certain irony of karmic twisting. seems that ra works in mysterious ways.

another one. for those who assume that merely eliminating animal farming would save much more sentient life may not understand the big picture.

'onething' touched on this in an earlier posting...
anyone interested in the food question should investigate this book review:

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/lipid-hypothesis/the-vegetarian-myth/

this represents the research done by one who was a dedicated, whole heart, vegetarian (vegan?) for some twenty years. a must read.

it is virtually undeniable that the toll on flora and fauna accompanying the hijacking of land to accommodate a society based on agriculture -- as practiced -- amounts to the brutal rape of nature.

yes. our food supply comes tainted with brutality whether sourced in plant or animal.

about david's recommendation of sushi. i recently watched an expose of fish farming. it concerned in particular the mekong delta...arguably the most contaminated river in the world...besides being one of the largest suppliers of fish to the usa. the delta is in actuality a huge sewer as thousands of primitive dwellings overreach the banks to better accommodate their sewage disposal needs. not good, since as some sages have pointed out "one is not what one eats but rather what one's 'food' had eaten.)

one last comment. the idea that things 'dieing' being of utmost concern in our appreciation of reality seems misplaced to me in that it unduly exalts the transitory 3rd dimensional reality.
but...the third density is not one of understanding!
in fact we are informed that one cannot move into the 4th without understanding requirement. true, our stomachs may be the graveyard of entities eaten and their shadows follow us. but to disengage from the clutch of karma is simply to forgive...and that means forgiving not only others but ourselves! ...simple, yet extremely difficult!

interestingly enough there was a reading from ll research about the moral question of hunting...seems there is a little understood payback in that the deer "victim" in its encounter with a higher density hunter received the gift of "individuation". this means that the prey is lifted from being merely a part of the deer group soul and is sent on its way along the path to the one creator...some millions of our years in the future the hunter in question may be named ra -- who becomes a gentle mentor to the ascending bambi's mother.:d

thanks for reading...of course what doesn't resonate, dump.

billybobbutterball

kingdom of heaven

09-17-2010, 09:12 AM

12thUranus

09-17-2010, 12:21 PM

if a man can live off fruit, grain, vegetables alone, why eat an animal? too me it's not even a matter of somebody choosing to eat meat for it is their own free will but the meat source here in america contains not only harmful hormones but lots of bad karma that has been brought to the 5 sensed animal through torture and slaughter in which now you are consuming.

dead matter can not carry karma.

if you want to accept the idea that it contains negative vibration, that is fine. to that, i would say it is a wonderful thing for a positive, loving entity to raise that vibration to positive, and helpful to us all.

i love plants too. they are of equal value and of second density as are animals.

12thUranus

09-17-2010, 12:25 PM

i work with plants. i am genuinely sad whenever i have to throw out, recycle, or uproot a plant. it's all 3d flesh and it all regenerates in cycle.

billybobbutterball

09-17-2010, 03:30 PM

hi kh....you ask an important question...you will find some discussion concerning that query if you take some time to go through the thread from the start....lots of interesting material.

and who says that man can live off fruit, grain, vegetables alone? much has to do with individual metabolism....some researchers find that one's blood type determines compatibility... type a can best handle plant based diets...the type b needs kefir, and meat. type o will often go to hell without meat. i'm an ab....genetically programed to eat meat, but my stomach doesn't produce hydrochloric acid for digestion....i'm still looking for an ideal diet.:confused:

please keep in mind that we are not bodies with souls....we are souls with borrowed bodies.
it is expected that we will treat our host with care and consideration... the idea of beating the hell out of our poor meat suits to get them to behave is plain wrong...i think anyway...one observer pointed out that a second density entity has to sacrifice their natural life to provide us a dwelling place.. when our spirit enters this world is only a fraction of the whole entity. it has to blend with the qualities of the host -- which adds a whole new aspect to the earthly product..think about it, please.

the above merely tries to put a new spin on old concepts. if nothing resonates then certainly ignore it...or perhaps write a feisty response in return :eek:

billousbobbutterball

if a man can live off fruit, grain, vegetables alone, why eat an animal? too me it's not even a matter of somebody choosing to eat meat for it is their own free will but the meat source here in america contains not only harmful hormones but lots of bad karma that has been brought to the 5 sensed animal through torture and slaughter in which now you are consuming.

kingdom of heaven

09-17-2010, 04:47 PM

i am blood type o and have been a vegan for 2 years. never had i have a craving for meat. i once fasted therefore cleansing and detoxing my body and becoming aware of how certain foods would effect me consciously once ingested. meat had flooded with thought process with toxicity.

Chris Hamilton

09-17-2010, 05:51 PM

hi kingdom,

granted that i have never concerned myself with what i eat or don't.....i have a dental hygeniest who is a vegetarian, but she does tell me that periodontal health is poor on strict vegans. have you found this is so ? there are a number of things that can affect the teeth of course, so just curious of your particular situation? there does seem to be certain minerals and vitamins missing from a strict veg diet that we need, so how do you get those proteins etc? thanks for your input:) chris

NorthernLights

09-17-2010, 08:56 PM

there is only one single vitamin in which a varied vegan diet cannot provide, which is vitamin b12. the reason why this is is not solely agreed upon because of the lack of animal products. one high level epidemiologist thinks it is because of the lack of soil culture within our modern farming practices (vegetables can absorb this vitamin if there is enough in the soil). either way it is extremely easy to supplement with or to eat foods fortified with it like most non-dairy milk beverages.

there is no reason to worry about protein. all real foods contain protein, plant or not. not many single plant sources are complete proteins (a few are though), but a varied enough diet will provide more than enough of all the essential amino acids (building blocks of protein, which the body breaks proteins down to anyway). there really is no such thing as a protein deficiency, unless all you ate was pure sugar.

NorthernLights

09-17-2010, 08:58 PM

periodontal health is poor on strict vegans.

there is no evidence of this on a large scale with a group of vegans consuming a balanced diet.

kingdom of heaven

09-18-2010, 07:08 AM

my protein source comes from beans, nuts and tofu and as far my teeth, they appear to be fine.

kingdom of heaven

09-18-2010, 09:22 AM

billybobbutterball

09-18-2010, 08:08 PM

b12

from the departments of internal medicine and of diabetes and metabolic diseases, medical clinic b (andrès, loukili, noel, abdelgheni, blicklé), internal medicine and geriatrics (kaltenbach, noblet-dick), internal medicine and nutrition (perrin, schlienger), and the oncology and hematology department (maloisel), strasbourg university hospitals, strasbourg, france.

abstract

vitamin b12 or cobalamin deficiency occurs frequently (> 20%) among elderly people, but it is often unrecognized because the clinical manifestations are subtle; they are also potentially serious, particularly from a neuropsychiatric and hematological perspective. causes of the deficiency include, most frequently, food-cobalamin malabsorption syndrome (> 60% of all cases), pernicious anemia (15%–20% of all cases), insufficient dietary intake and malabsorption. food-cobalamin malabsorption, which has only recently been identified as a significant cause of cobalamin deficiency among elderly people, is characterized by the inability to release cobalamin from food or a deficiency of intestinal cobalamin transport proteins or both. we review the epidemiology and causes of cobalamin deficiency in elderly people, with an emphasis on food-cobalamin malabsorption syndrome. we also review diagnostic and management strategies for cobalamin deficiency.

comment: b12 is very difficult to utilize as many people lack the esentual "intrinsic factor" needed to make it bio-available. there seems to be an advantage in energy available for some to take more than the recommended intake. for a long period of time injection was used to get past the digestion problem. now sublingual nano sprays are coming into more use. for myself i use a sublingual tablet of 1000 mcg using the superior form of b12 methylcobalamin ...which is what (cheap) cyanocobalamin must be converted before it can work. methyl b12 also has the advantage of protecting brain cells and nerve tissue

protein:

calculating protein requirements
recently, studies on nitrogen balance provided more accurate ways to measure the body's protein requirements. joel fuhrman, m.d. in his book eat to live writes that an easy way to calculate your own daily protein requirement according to the u.s. rda is to multiply 0.36 (grams) by your body weight. that translates to about 44 grams for a 120-pound woman and 54 grams for a 150-pound male. in metric terminology the rda is 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight.

brenda davis, r.d., and vesanto melina, m.s., r.d., in their book becoming vegan consider 0.9 grams per kilogram of body weight per day to be more ideal for vegans eating whole plant foods such as legumes, whole grains, and vegetables. multiplying 0.45 grams by your body weight in pounds will give you the approximate protein need for your body. these figures are a little higher than actual rda requirements but were considered necessary as a safety factor to account for reduced digestibility of whole plant foods versus more refined foods such as tofu, textured soy protein, and meat substitutes.

with this slightly higher figure a 120-pound person would need 54 grams of protein daily and a 150-pound person needs 67.5 grams. another way to calculate your rda for protein is to take your weight in pounds and divide by 2.2 (pounds per kilogram) to determine your weight in kilograms. then figure 1 gram of protein for every kilogram of body weight. those who include tofu, textured soy protein, meat substitutes, and refined grains will find 0.8 grams per kilogram of protein daily quite adequate.

protein needs during pregnancy and breastfeeding
reed mangels, phd, r.d. says, "the newest rda has looked at all the places where additional protein is needed in pregnancy (fetus, placenta, amniotic fluid, uterus, breasts, blood, etc.) and has recommended that protein intake in pregnancy should be 1.1 grams per kilogram per day or 25 grams more of protein than the rda for non-pregnant women.

comment:

there are sites that give relative values. i like nutrition data.com...one can check the amount of protein and its biological rating -- and what best to combine it with...i would not use any non-fermented soy products etc.:eek:!!!!! and i do not use any gluten grains.:eek: to simplify and bolster my protein needs i use either isolated rice protein or-- smoother to the palate -- pea protein. i don't eat enough regular food to meet my requirement.

my comments are merely that...my opinion at this stage of life.

best! bbb

12thUranus

09-19-2010, 04:56 AM

i eat what is available to me. when i obsess over my intake, i become a monster with an unstable mind :mad:

i think the true authorities on what the body (*meat suit, hehe bb) needs to survive are the people starving in third world countries.

billybobbutterball

09-19-2010, 06:07 AM

i eat what is available to me. when i obsess over my intake, i become a monster with an unstable mind :mad: ### i was wondering about that.....bbb:p

i think the true authorities on what the body (*meat suit, hehe bb) needs to survive are the people starving in third world countries.

!2th, i make a pointed distinction between surviving and thriving......something i read...2nd ww.japan....american prisoners -- the relatively lucky ones- got the normal oriental rations. the japanese did fine, but the westerners soon looked like they came out of dachau. but i get your point.

good eatin' bbbbbb

Tenet Nosce

09-19-2010, 09:46 AM

my general thoughts are contained here:

http://divinecosmos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14492

to any vegan: i would love to see a detailed meal plan outlining exactly how you are meeting the body's nutritional needs without consuming animal products. it is definitely possible.. however in my experience i have found that most vegans do not come even close.

bbb... the minimum amount of protein one needs to consume on a daily basis is 0.8 grams per kilogram body weight although the needs increase as one's activity levels increase. this number is calculated to determine the amount of protein needed to put down one's feeding tube in a hospital. therefore, it represents the amount of protein required for a person with almost no physical activity.

one of the reasons that so many people have trouble losing weight is because they decide to begin an exercise program (increasing activity) while decreasing their caloric intake... specifically protein as many people with weight problems eat too much sugar and carbohydrate and so when they decide to cut back on calories the first thing they cut is protein. big mistake. people who engage in moderate to high physical activity on a regular basis should get around 1.2 - 1.5 grams per kilogram.

using these numbers, a reasonable "average" required intake would be about 80 - 100 grams of protein a day. seeing as how most plant foods (excepting nuts, seeds, and legumes) have about 2 grams of protein per cup, it makes it very difficult to achieve.

NorthernLights

09-19-2010, 09:58 AM

b12

there are sites that give relative values. i like nutrition data.com...one can check the amount of protein and its biological rating -- and what best to combine it with...i would not use any non-fermented soy products etc.:eek:!!!!! and i do not use any gluten grains.:eek: to simplify and bolster my protein needs i use either isolated rice protein or-- smoother to the palate -- pea protein. i don't eat enough regular food to meet my requirement.

my comments are merely that...my opinion at this stage of life.

best! bbb

nice articles bbb. i like that methylcobalamin b12 was mentioned as it is a natural source. cyanocobalamin is synthesized with with cyanide which is released when it breaks down, probably not the best thing.

i once totally recorded my nutritional intake for a week and even without paying much attention to eating protein rich plant foods like beans and tofu, my protein levels (on a 100% plant based diet) were still well over the recommended intake. i think the fact of the matter is most westerners consume far too much protein.

Tenet Nosce

09-19-2010, 11:12 AM

i once totally recorded my nutritional intake for a week and even without paying much attention to eating protein rich plant foods like beans and tofu, my protein levels (on a 100% plant based diet) were still well over the recommended intake.

if you still have this data available, i would be very interested to see it.

NorthernLights

09-19-2010, 01:28 PM

eek! dont know if i still do, i will have a look around.
if not i could probably do it again when i have the time.
if its the protein your interested in, my intake was at or around 100 g/day and recommended intake for my body weight is around 65 g/day.

[moderator suggests that if this information is sent, it should be in a private message;) ]

NegaNova

09-19-2010, 04:39 PM

i like the post!

i choose candy.

billybobbutterball

09-20-2010, 11:20 AM

all this food talk is making me hungry...and this happens to be my fast day. groan. bad timing!

out of morbid curiosity i did a look-see at my daily, non-fasting day protein summation of highly- regarded veggie stuff.

it comes to 27 grams. a little low in first order food element. (protein = "of first importance")

so --in my case anyway -- i think that supplementation is called for.

a raw egg gifted from hopefully contented hens = 6 grams of super protein.
a heaping dose of green pond scum chlorella and spirulina = 7 grams
heaping amount of highest quality of protein isolate from peas/brown rice = 28 grams

that added to the above figure comes to 68 grams....a modest amount

every week or so i add 2.5 oz of bison ( to obtain some suspected, unknown factor x) which would add another 20 grams for the daily dose.

an interesting factoid turned up concerning sweet potatoes/aka yams. the primary food stuff
that fueled george washington's army of revolution through the frozen winter of great suffering was the humble sweet potato. in actuality it is a powerhouse of nutrition, also of great importance to ones health is that it is one of the most highly anti-inflammatory of foods!.:cool:

(speaking of anti...does our poster, neganova, mean one who is supremely and most gigantically imploded? hmmm.

ol' billybob, asittin' on his rail fence, sucking on an oat straw, contemplating the turnip patch.:)

NorthernLights

09-21-2010, 06:11 AM

a little low in first order food element. (protein = "of first importance")

who says that? carbohydrates are much more important imo.
it is the fuel of life.

billybobbutterball

09-21-2010, 12:57 PM

who says that? carbohydrates are much more important imo.
it is the fuel of life.

hi. nl good question

the word protein is classical greek for "of primary importance"

things to consider....there is no daily requirement for carbohydrates! protein can be used for fuel. body muscle can be deaminated for fuel. carbohydrate cannot rebuild any body parts -- unless you consider the energy-fuel glycogen as a turn-over body part...

according to wiki here is where it got its designation:

snip

proteins were first described by the dutch chemist gerhardus johannes mulder and named by the swedish chemist jöns jakob berzelius in 1838. early nutritional scientists such as the german carl von voit believed that protein was the most important nutrient for maintaining the structure of the body, because it was generally believed that "flesh makes flesh."[3] the central role of proteins as enzymes in living organisms was however not fully appreciated until 1926, when james b. sumner showed that the enzyme urease was in fact a protein.[4] the first protein to be sequenced was insulin, by frederick sanger, who won the nobel prize for this achievement in 1958. the first protein structures to be solved were hemoglobin and myoglobin, by max perutz and sir john cowdery kendrew, respectively, in 1958.[5][6] the three-dimensional structures of both proteins were first determined by x-ray diffraction analysis; perutz and kendrew shared the 1962 nobel prize in chemistry for these discoveries....snip snip

carbohydrate and protein do have their dark side. premature aging of cells can occur when an improper wedding of protein and carbs take place which results in a morbid process called "glycation"....just imagine your bod turning into a pot of hardening glue.

i'm nearly 80 years old...i don't much like what glycation has done to my body and mind.
perhaps you can understand why i'm interested in health issues?....the ra material stated that longevity is not of prime importance in these later years...of course i don't want to live here forever, i just want to have enough remaining faculties intact so i can fade away gracefully.:p

factoid. the longest-lived people are slender okinawans...it seems under-eating helps promote longevity. it is speculated that americans' are suffering from the curse of having an over-flowing, super-abundance of tempting vittles.:eek:

lunch time!! bbb

.

Tenet Nosce

09-22-2010, 04:18 PM

who says that? carbohydrates are much more important imo.

carbohydrate may be synthesized from protein, but protein cannot be synthesized from carbohydrate. (at least in the human body.) there are also certain fats which must be acquired from the diet.

the body can live indefinitely without intake of carbohydrate, although it probably won't function too well. on the other hand, a body without intake adequate protein will die fairly rapidly, as it will begin to digest its own organs in order to recover the protein that has been incorporated into them.

billybobbutterball

09-23-2010, 12:07 PM

carbohydrate may be synthesized from protein, but protein cannot be synthesized from carbohydrate. (at least in the human body.) there are also certain fats which must be acquired from the diet.

the body can live indefinitely without intake of carbohydrate, although it probably won't function too well. on the other hand, a body without intake adequate protein will die fairly rapidly, as it will begin to digest its own organs in order to recover the protein that has been incorporated into them.

right!

another factoid...the noted explorer,.vilhjalmur stefansson , spent a year or so with arctic eskimos and of course had to adapt to their food. he found that the eskimo's thrived on virtually an all meat/fat diet...the kids would eat frozen fish on a stick like southern kids devouring popsicles. but there was one food delicacy exception in this community stuck in natures deep-freeze, and what they considered of real value was the stomach content of harvested seals....which consisted in large part of green stuff taken from the ocean garden. well, they prized it!

then came civilisation bringing along its food... the first reported heart attack of an arctic eskimo was an unlucky fellow who served as a cook on a whaler.

steffansson in his later years -- living on an orange orchard farm -- recovered his failing health by going back to the primitive diet..anyway as best he could. and yes, i tried it myself.

he wrote a politically incorrect book entitled, "the fat of the land" one of the findings was that the type of fat was vitally important in that it needed to match the climate....(polyunsaturates would deep fat fry tropical natives.-- so they did better on the more solid saturated fats.)

steffansson was a great advocate of pemmican...it was the secret food that actually opened up the exploration of the great continent!.. a trapper could literally carry a year's supply of food on his back! (pemmican recipe.50% dehydrated lean, ground and mixed with 50% animal fat)

now i don't want the above to sound like a lecture...its only a "believe it or not" bit of trivia. please! hey! discussion is most welcome!...to whit, my feeling is that diet is a minor factor in spiritual advancement. as jesus is reported as saying...."what comes out of the mouth is more important than what goes in" ???

my wish? the highest and best good for all concerned! (grass grazers and cannibals alike ) :pbbb

Strider44

09-27-2010, 04:27 AM

lets say being vegetarian makes you 10% more spiritual.

being raw makes you 90% more spiritual (even if you eat meat!)

ive been raw for 10 months and have noticed dramatic improvements in my health and spirituality.. i am more easy going, forgiving, tolerant etc.. things which would have excited my anger on cooked now slip away like water off a ducks back.

about 4 years ago as a cooked eater, i decided to go veggie to see if it would make me more spiritual, which sounds like what you are after.

a year later i started eating meat again as i noticed little difference in my health and spirituality. i was dissapointed.

the question is not weather you eat animal flesh or not, the question is weather you cook your food or not.

most fruits/veggies contain 70% water. nature intended for food to both nourish and hydrate. the health benefits from raw imo come from the fact that you are constantly being hydrated by living, intelligent water. cooking vegetables evaporates all that nourishing, rejuvinating juice.

eating raw will take you to another level. just go raw if your looking to elevate your consciousness, it wakes you up to the food matrix in a way i cant explain.

raw eating is absoltely the way to go.

Karen Rusk

09-27-2010, 03:11 PM

i feel like i have to add to the discussion here, even though i'm not saying i have all the answers. i just know that not one of us is a victim, which is to say, there is nothing "out there" that can harm us, unless of course we allow it to do/seem so.

from that i conclude that it does not matter what we eat, no matter what results any one is having from their current choices. food is simply energy, as are our bodies, and so we align ourselves appropriately. i have been told over and over again by my guides that it does not matter what i do, the only thing that will affect my experience (and therefore the collective experience) is how i feel about what i do. when all i do originates from love then all i do is love, at least this has been my experience.

as for food, i eat what i enjoy, what sounds "good" at any time that i may be hungry. i do not eat if i'm not hungry, generally, but will often engage in social eating, but at that point i'm in a space of love, once again, and so my snacks are of course beautiful!

isn't this the whole point? that we realize who and what we are (love) and that we live that? food is simply one more choice we make; it cannot "make" us into anything, it has no power over us unless we give it power. i am all for farming that takes into account the nature of all things, that is, farming based in love and gratitude, and i am sure there are many farmers out there who practice this. but if we allow ourselves to be victim to something we take in or see the earth as a victim to our activities then that is exactly what we will experience, and i for one do not wish to see things this way.

i understand how the things we do often seem to be the solution to some problem we have, but i am simply asking that we all look at what is going on in our thoughts before we start blaming or crediting something that appears to be outside of us for our failures or successes. in this way we take charge of our existence here and that can only lead us to more connection with our true selves and each other (you know, the one of us that is here).

i say all of this in love and hope that we can all begin to take charge of our lives, because it seems that that is what is truly needed at this point in our timeline.

in love and honor,
karen

NorthernLights

09-28-2010, 08:04 AM

Tenet Nosce

09-28-2010, 02:29 PM

he wrote a politically incorrect book entitled, "the fat of the land" one of the findings was that the type of fat was vitally important in that it needed to match the climate....(polyunsaturates would deep fat fry tropical natives.-- so they did better on the more solid saturated fats.)

you know, i gotta say that i really do love fat! especially animal fat. don't get me wrong, i love avocado, olives, almonds, and pumpkin seeds too. ;) but you bring up a very good point, which is that not only does the diet need to be matched to the body, but where the body is and even when the body is (i.e. time of year) matters.

i do wonder what would happen if an eskimo was fed a diet consisting primarily of coconut.

which brings me back to my usual landing point of believing that one's best bet is to get in tune with their own body and follow its recommendations. where i think people get into trouble is by taking some external authority (food guru, expert, religion, ada, usda, etc) and doggedly following their advice despite the fact that they are not getting the results they are looking for.

i used to work with a lot of weight loss clients. when i "crunched the numbers" on their food logs, almost invariably the people who just couldn't seem to lose weight were eating too much carbohydrate, and following a "lowfat" diet. (especially the vegans.) first of all, most people i encounter (including doctors, nurses, and dieticians) don't seem to realize that a lowfat diet consists of about 20-25% fat. they are so proud of the fact that they got their diet down to 10-15% fat, even as they scratch their heads as to why they can't seem to lose weight.

"you're eating too much carbohydrate!" i tell them.

"but i am so hungry all the time, i just can't help myself!" they say.

"how about you try increasing your fat intake, so that you aren't so hungry all the time?" i suggest.

this is usually when they cock their head sideways and stare at me like i am a complete idiot. i mean.... "everybody knows" that a lowfat diet is the key to losing weight! fat has the most calories! :rolleyes:

oh really? then why isn't it working?!

in the end, theories are nice, and very interesting to debate, but i am fairly certain that even if science does "figure it all out" it will be long after i have departed my earthly vessel.

...to whit, my feeling is that diet is a minor factor in spiritual advancement.

agreed. as i have wrote about ad nauseum. very popular idea, though, that if one wishes to grow spiritually they must start with the diet. again... how is that working out for everybody?

as jesus is reported as saying...."what comes out of the mouth is more important than what goes in" ???

matthew 15:11 is the reference. one of my faves.

Tenet Nosce

09-28-2010, 02:32 PM

where did i say anything about intake my friend? i was speaking biochemically, carbohydrates are more important. whether or not you can synthesis them from other sources is a different matter.

my bad. i must have misread your words. even so, the body can't transfer energy from sugar to atp without enzymes, which are made of protein.

Tenet Nosce

09-28-2010, 03:42 PM

hi karen,

thanks for joining in the discussion!

i feel like i have to add to the discussion here, even though i'm not saying i have all the answers. i just know that not one of us is a victim, which is to say, there is nothing "out there" that can harm us, unless of course we allow it to do/seem so.

i think this depends on your perspective and level of awareness. do you mean to say that a bullet flying at your body is not going to cause some damage if you don't move out of the way? maybe if you are neo!

also if you are speaking from the perspective that we are spirit, and not the body, then i agree that we cannot- in the highest sense- be harmed. as you may note, i am not a proponent of eating this way or that in order to supposedly attain spiritual growth.

on the flip side, if someone were to slip enough strychnine into your food, i am sure you would quickly find your spirit and body to be quite incompatible. i assume this would be doing you a great disservice.

one must be wary of this line of reasoning, as it is similar to the one used by high level negative beings. well sure, maybe i am abusing you, enslaving you, raping you, killing you, etc., but since we are one and there are no victims, you must have "at some level" agreed to it and therefore i may proceed with impunity and complete disregard and disrespect for your wishes at this level. slippery slope there. :eek:

from that i conclude that it does not matter what we eat, no matter what results any one is having from their current choices. food is simply energy, as are our bodies, and so we align ourselves appropriately. i have been told over and over again by my guides that it does not matter what i do, the only thing that will affect my experience (and therefore the collective experience) is how i feel about what i do. when all i do originates from love then all i do is love, at least this has been my experience.

well that certainly makes sense to me! being trumps doing every time.

still i would point out an inconsistency to your logic. if all is energy, and you are me, and i am you, then with respect to food everything "you" do does not originate from love by virtue of the fact that there is "another you" out there who was not at all in a state of love when they slaughtered that cow or chicken you just ate for dinner.

there is also "another you" out there who did not offer a prayer of gratitude or appreciation before they ate those chicken nuggets who is also contributing to the collective experience.

i really don't mean to be argumentative, as i think we are pretty much in agreement on a practical level. i just used to run in certain circles where these sort of new age aphorisms were blithely tossed about in such a way as to engender denial of negative influences.

[i am reminded of an old acquaintance who was training to be a trance channeler. one evening during a little gathering, his eyes suddenly rolled back into his head and he fell to the floor writhing in pain and convulsions. as some of the onlookers were casually tossing about their favorite new age one-liners, (it's all energy!) a friend and i got busy extracting a demon from this man's body. but i digress.]

as for food, i eat what i enjoy, what sounds "good" at any time that i may be hungry.

me too. :d

NorthernLights

09-28-2010, 05:15 PM

my bad. i must have misread your words. even so, the body can't transfer energy from sugar to atp without enzymes, which are made of protein.

indeed!

the chicken or the egg... :rolleyes:

billybobbutterball

09-28-2010, 10:41 PM

indeed!

the chicken or the egg... :rolleyes:

hmmm ....both virtually all protein....doesn't support your line of thought, nl

how about 'the corn or the cob?' nah.....still contaminated with 'p'.

ahah! "honey or the comb!"...hmm ...now i'm reaching too hard for perfection.:o

failed, fell short.... bbbbb

Karen Rusk

09-29-2010, 11:04 AM

i see that we all originate from love, even if one of us chooses to negatively polarize themselves, to put it into ra terms. love is the basis of our entire existence, so really it seems it's just a matter of whether or not we are aware of this. which is exactly what this site does - open people's eyes, i hope :) - and it was my motivation for posting.

i could have reacted to your response saying, you are trying to convince me that i am not in charge of myself and therefore you are the one with negative motives. however, i do not feel that from you, and even if i did, it wouldn't matter because i would continue to know who i am no matter what you say. i say this with honor, not anger, as i simply want to explain my thoughts on the matter. if you are remembering some "new age" students who behaved poorly in your eyes then i can understand why you would caution against blindly quoting wisdom while ignoring compassion. i am not trying to encourage people to go out and ignore their own knowing. what i am trying to do is encourage people to know what that is.

bullets and poison do not come into my awareness so they do not exist for me. does that sound naive? maybe so, but it is my experience and therefore my "reality" and i know the power of, well, knowing. i suppose i can see why you would bring these things up, although at first i thought perhaps it was out of fear (the idea of bullets, poison or evil-doers being most likely fearful to most people). it just seems to me that again the point of my study is to let go of these ideas as even being possible and to focus myself in a way that is absolutely powerful.

i have not mastered this, i am not claiming to know anything more than what is in my own awareness. i also know that each of us is right where we are and so are working from the here and now even if we don't know it. what this means is i am giving this perspective out of love because i want to see all of my fellow beings living in their fullest power and awareness. in this discussion about food i think it is absolutely appropriate as we are talking about what our body "needs" in order to function. i just don't want to give my body that much power, i.e. i don't see it as being who i am.

there are certainly channels, including ra, which have stated some forms of dietary intake are preferable to others, and so i guess this is where i diverge because i simply cannot see that something as unreal as food can have any affect on me. perhaps i see it as a starting point for growing beyond all physical limitations. i mean, i have to start somewhere, right? :)

in love and light,
karen

12thUranus

09-29-2010, 08:32 PM

the last four posts are clear to me. i see a wholeness. it is quite lovely.

i have an example of following intuition of what the body "needs."

today i was feeling the effects of allergies in my chest (the cold front- not used to dry air) [i feel fine about the allergies karen, i don't mean to undermine your beautiful point ;)].
anyway, my intuition brought a craving for a strong spice, and i wasn't sure what i would reach for. then, later in the day i had a daydream (still a valid dream guys) about being at the boat dock and befriending the local ducks by consistently supplying them with sardines vs the ol' ordinary bread.
i stopped at the grocery to get pizza for the kids. i had to follow my intuition and grab a can of sardines for myself. oh cool, they come packaged in louisiana hot sauce. perfect!

short of being a climatic end to my story, i enjoyed the heck out of those sardines. i have never eaten a can of sardines in my life! until now. i am very confident that i gave my body something it verily needed, and i don't know what nor much care.

love and blessings,

Tenet Nosce

09-29-2010, 10:47 PM

i see that we all originate from love, even if one of us chooses to negatively polarize themselves

that is a very eloquent way of putting it. :)

i could have reacted to your response saying, you are trying to convince me that i am not in charge of myself and therefore you are the one with negative motives. however, i do not feel that from you, and even if i did, it wouldn't matter because i would continue to know who i am no matter what you say. i say this with honor, not anger, as i simply want to explain my thoughts on the matter.

happy you didn't since i do not have negative motives. it is always a sticky situation to engage in these types of discussions as one never knows if the person on the other end is a "troller" which, based on your response, i think you are not. not that my opinion should matter all that much to you!

the essence of my comments center around the contrast between wisdom and naivete. it is one of those pesky paradoxes. to one who is aware of who they really are, that hamburger is not really a threat at all. but to those who are in denial it may be a much greater threat than they are aware. and to those who think they know, but really don't, it may be downright deadly. i can think of many people who are chronically ill, and in severe denial about the fact that is has something to do with the poor excuse for food that they eat on a daily basis.

if you are remembering some "new age" students who behaved poorly in your eyes then i can understand why you would caution against blindly quoting wisdom while ignoring compassion. i am not trying to encourage people to go out and ignore their own knowing. what i am trying to do is encourage people to know what that is.

sweet! although in my mind i am more concerned about those who would blindly follow compassion at the expense of wisdom. then again i am one who is more distorted toward wisdom and probably came here to balance myself toward compassion. so there ya go. ;)

i just know of many genuinely curious souls who get hoodwinked into this sort of spiritual numbness where they are barely beginning to search and come across a few tidbits of hard-earned wisdom and claim it for their own. there are no shortcuts, and i am saying that from experience.

bullets and poison do not come into my awareness so they do not exist for me. does that sound naive? maybe so, but it is my experience and therefore my "reality" and i know the power of, well, knowing. i suppose i can see why you would bring these things up, although at first i thought perhaps it was out of fear (the idea of bullets, poison or evil-doers being most likely fearful to most people). it just seems to me that again the point of my study is to let go of these ideas as even being possible and to focus myself in a way that is absolutely powerful.

nope that's awesome, and i am neither too concerned about bullets or poison. i would just point out the difference between becoming aware of a negative possibility and choosing a different path, and being in denial of the negative possibility altogether. each state is quite different from the other, although they can appear very similar from the outside to the casual observer.

in this discussion about food i think it is absolutely appropriate as we are talking about what our body "needs" in order to function. i just don't want to give my body that much power, i.e. i don't see it as being who i am.

totally appropriate, and i am thankful for your perspective. again, i have happened to work with several people in this area of diet who appear to be in a great state of denial with regard to the physical requirements of the body. not saying this is you. but the body does require certain physical elements in order to function in optimal health... at least until one has reached the level of awareness where they no longer require a physical body in the sense that we tend to think of it.

my experiences have led me to be concerned (perhaps overly so) about people who have significant nutritional deficiencies due to what i believe to be a misunderstanding of how physicality actually operates. until the point that one is able to manifest protein or zinc from the ethers, they need to take it in from food. whether it comes from an animal, a plant, or otherwise, seems irrelevant to me but it is very important that they meet the requirements somehow. you cannot will your body into a state of health despite an overt nutritional deficiency. at least that is what i believe. if i were to encounter a person who is in a vibrant state of health despite having several holes in their nutritional spectrum, i would promptly change my belief.

thanks again for your contributions. i would put in another smiley but it looks like i am limited to two these days.

Tenet Nosce

09-30-2010, 07:44 AM

short of being a climatic end to my story, i enjoyed the heck out of those sardines. i have never eaten a can of sardines in my life! until now. i am very confident that i gave my body something it verily needed, and i don't know what nor much care.

great story! sardines are very high in omega-3 fats and zinc. both are a first-line approach for an overactive immune system.

Karen Rusk

09-30-2010, 08:01 AM

i love to read about all of our stories of how we are waking up and as you said, tenet nosce, the journey to the hard-earned pieces of wisdom we gain. i, too, have worried about others and their habits, and not just in the area of nutrition. somewhere along the way i had to let go of a lot of that because it was filling my entire field of vision. it is difficult not to feel for our fellow beings here on earth and i sense this is where we all come from here on these forums, that we truly want our fellow explorers to thrive.

but as you said, there are no shortcuts, and nothing i do or say can really make any difference... or can it? i don't know for sure, so i say it anyways. perhaps that is all i need to do.

i love when i have an intuition as you did, 12thuranus, because when i follow through on it i always feel great! perhaps the idea of simply listening to our bodies is an easy explanation of how it works. i mean, i'm still not saying my body is "real" but i can certainly entertain the wisdom it carries (i.e. in my cells). after all, our bodies are divinely inspired creations, whatever they are, so there's got to be something behind them, the first thought you know...

i have had to work for years to get beyond my attitude - an impatience and frustration with anyone who i thought wasn't awake enough (how awful!) - and finally realized that that judgment, along with judging myself for having it, were just getting in my way. all of a sudden each and every person became this amazing creation and i could feel true compassion for each of us. phew! i bring this up only as an explanation in case some of this impatience seeps through my words into one of these posts.. obviously i'm still a work in progress!

i'll add a couple more smilies for all of us :) :)

karen

billybobbutterball

10-06-2010, 12:22 PM

hi, billybob confesses all.

two years ago comes christmas eve i shattered my ankle...i was late getting to the white coat guys and they didn't pin the floppy thing back together...told me not to put any more weight than that which would break an egg....they mentioned that meant a raw egg!

i actually followed their advice...i one-legged it with the help of crutches and when i fell i was sure to hold the fragile leg way up into the air. i spent a great deal of time on the computer and watched an endless supply of netflix movies with my leg up on my work bench like i was told.

about may i could get around better and started to walk a couple of miles...i worked out on a device called an "air walker" which is much like a cross country ski machine..i would spend up to a couple of hours a day 'skiing' and watching netflix stuff. i was also adding some comfort foods..i would flirt with suicide by getting cartons of professional grade"death by chocolate chip cookies". i figured that with all the physical activity i could.get away with it and maybe even re-classify reeses' peanut butter cups as a health food.

wrong! wrong kind of thinking, wrong kind of exercise!

came this jan i weighed in at 186 lbs..ouch! so i got real serious...i checked my metabolism level...my morning body temperature was only 96.6 degrees -- it should be 98.6. what this meant was that my required calories to maintain equilibrium was extremely low...i decided to do some strength training...but was shocked to find a light dumbbell felt like it was double the weight. i tried running...the shock to my hips felt like mini pile-driver's were slamming into the joints! (t took several months of careful work before that aspect returned closer to normal.)

the weight dropped quickly the first couple of weeks then slowed down to a crawl then came the dreaded plateau.... it hovered at 167 for months.

early in september i started doing an occasional fast day...then after reading an article by dr,.baylock i did a search for "every other day fasting."

the key to success lies in that every hour --for ten hours -- one takes a small amount of nutrients that stabilize the blood sugar level...that plan is designed to control hunger!! yes! it works!

but one can't do fast days back to back...on the "eat days" one intakes at least a normal amount of good calories... that maneuver keeps the body from declaring a starvation situation that calls for lowering the metabolism and storing fat. (the body will burn muscle for energy rather than sacrificing blessed, life-extending high-energy fat ..its gotta be fooled and foiled ! ) :cool:

the bottom line is that i've misplaced another 9lbs in about four weeks..that's good!

oddly enough the fast days are easier than the eat days...to help out those days...i add the hourly "recipe" between the regular meals. i figure that i should be at a fighting weight by the first of december...and if i can avoid breaking my other ankle --comes xmas eve.-- i will continue to age gracefully.:p

note: dr. baylock pointed out that under-eating increases longevity (that is different from "life span") he claims that merely fasting once or twice a week can accomplish the same thing, which would make the project more feasible over the long run...other researchers agree...

hope this will help my fellow "yo-yo'rs" to fool their misguided, fat-loving bodies.

best!, billybobblubberless

goodyear8504

10-06-2010, 03:15 PM

after reading your past, karen, a thought came to mind. i have not yet watched the entire new video on david's blog about food and nutrition, but i do remember him mentioning something to the effect of once our (american) food chains are built in other countries (like taco bell and mcdonalds), it will be easier for people in those countries to be controlled and manipulated like we are here in the us.

i wonder, maybe it's not the food itself that allows for this, rather the lack of positive emotions and thoughts we have when we eat at these types of restaurants. it takes little effort to go through a drive-thru, hand over some money, and immediately dig in. likewise, the people who are responsible for making your food in that situation are most likely not preparing your food while having the same emotions one would have if they were cooking for loved ones or themselves in a positive environment. perhaps by entirely eliminating one's self from the hunting/preparing/cooking process, we miss out on a lot of potential positive energy. just a thought

12thUranus

10-06-2010, 06:19 PM

early in september i started doing an occasional fast day...then after reading an article by dr,.baylock i did a search for "every other day fasting."

the key to success lies in that every hour --for ten hours -- one takes a small amount of nutrients that stabilize the blood sugar level...that plan is designed to control hunger!! yes! it works!

but one can't do fast days back to back...on the "eat days" one intakes at least a normal amount of good calories... that maneuver keeps the body from declaring a starvation situation that calls for lowering the metabolism and storing fat. (the body will burn muscle for energy rather than sacrificing blessed, life-extending high-energy fat ..its gotta be fooled and foiled ! ) :cool:

why you're no butterball at all mr. billy!!

excellent post. this is the idea i had in mind, in this post http://divinecosmos.com/forums/showpost.php?p=56844&postcount=195, that didn't come across nearly as well as bbbb, balancing brash and boast beautifully, could state it. (haha. yes! <3 )

we don't need 3 meals a day. we don't even need groceries. we need a little here and there, and our body makes do with the nutrients it has the privilege to ingest.

Berni

10-09-2010, 05:25 AM

has anyone ever heard of (or tried) food grade diatomaceous earth? it's a form of silica.

we have started using it like recommend[ed]. i just wondered if anyone else out there has tried it.

[moderator: personal experience is favored here. please avoid brands as per rules and no quoting claims of advertisers]

billybobbutterball

10-09-2010, 11:12 AM

good grief!...we already got vegans, vegetarians, carnivores, omnivores, blood suckers, breatharians...but now.. earth eaters?! :eek:

thanks for the post, berni! i fall back in complete ignorance....thanks to you i now know just enough to be dangerous. i did understand that some earth products can be quite beneficial -- such as the powerful anti-virus agent humic acid from humate ("green coal") and certain soils can contain functional pro-biotic "homostatic based soil organisms" (modern farming destroys them) but the stuff of crushed exoskeletons belonging to long dead, itsy bitsy little critters is a new one on me.:cool:

has anyone ever heard of (or tried) food grade diatomaceous earth? it's a form of silica.

we have started using it like recommend[ed]. i just wondered if anyone else out there has tried it.

[moderator: personal experience is favored here. please avoid brands as per rules and no quoting claims of advertisers]

islandgirl

10-09-2010, 04:27 PM

well, i've used de for almost 4 years daily for my horses, my dog and mom and i used in our smoothies.

i have the horses and dog tested quarterly for parasites and it does help quite a bit, but not completely for roundworms. i end up doing a complete wormer dose once or twice a year on the horses.....as you all know they eat off the ground and mine are in pasture half of every day so it's unavoidable as far as exposure goes. but the normal protocol for horses is every other month worming so i have been able to cut waaaay back on the chemicals because de keeps it at least at bay. the worm counts are very small when they are detected too, so that's a good sign.

horses and doggie get their de along with other supplements in their regular food and never know it........can't let anyone inhale the stuff as it tears up the lungs so be careful with that, must be mixed with something wet for ingestion.

same for our dog, we just worm him a couple of times yearly for roundworms and heartworms are roundworms so that gets taken care of too.
mom and i take a 1/2tbs daily in our fruit smoothie/pro powder drink.

so according to the fecal tests for our pup and our horses it's working pretty darn good....just not 100%, so best to get checks for your animals from the vet every so often.

de is also supposed to be good in getting in more minerals into your body, so that's a good thing these days too.

cheri

billybobbutterball

10-15-2010, 11:57 AM

wow! it belatedly dawned on me that......

there is no life without silica !!

in 1939, the nobel prize winner for chemistry, professor adolf butenant, proved that life can not exist without silica.

in the 2003 book "water & salt" dr. barbara hendel states: "silica it the most important trace mineral for human health!"

hey! diatomaceous earth is 84% silicon dioxide (silica)

"silica plays an important role in many body functions and has a direct relationship to mineral absorption. the average human body holds approximately seven grams of silica, a quantity far exceeding the figures for other important minerals such as iron."

thought to be transmutable (?! ) silica can pinch-hit for a calcium deficiency.

silica supports healthy bones, joints, promotes youthful looking skin, hair, nails, teeth, etc.

getting enough silica in one's diet is considered a problem...thus the usual but expensive supplement formulas (herbal extract from horse tail harvested at an optimal time in its growth cycle) silica drops in liquid form is bio-available but expensive even in little dispenser bottles delivering 6 drops for the daily supply.

so, if the diatomaceous earth is a good nutritional source of silica , i.e., bio-available, then that feature alone would justify its use --- far beyond that of being a scourge for any fecal (whatever that means:eek:) nasty little critters that humans, pets and assorted domesticated animals can be better rid of !

bon vivant!! bbbb...

p.s. rx two pills this evening, check with the office monday morning. :p