The "distortion" of free will & the issue of mental illness

[AmelieJolie]

hi everyone.....

i haven't read the law of one lately, but i think i will return to studying them at some point soon. i have read the first two books so far.

i just recalled something whilst pondering the topic of "free will" today, that, interestingly, ra used the term "the distortion of free will".

what does "free will" really mean?

maybe it exists, but perhaps in a distorted way?


i was thinking today about the issues of mental illness and how these might effect free will. for example, when someone has severe clinical depression, caused by a chemical imbalance, which takes away their motivation and makes them feel joyless....they might be an incredibly loving person deep down, but are unable to express it in their daily lives because of the way their brain chemistry makes them feel.

perhaps these things, these illnesses, happen to people not as part of some punishment or as a result of any fault of their own.....perhaps it goes a lot deeper than that. perhaps the reason why these things happen is to allow us to evolve (love) towards a deeper understanding of each other. the people suffering from mental illnesses such as depression must learn to love themselves, and stop blaming themselves/ self-loathing. the people around them who find it difficult to understand people with such conditions must eventually learn to understand and learn not to judge them.


in the ideal world, it would be a simple case of "mind over matter". people who are paralyzed or disabled in any way would be able to walk or be cured through the sheer power of their will and thought. we would all be able to transform our bodies to be whatever we desired. in the same way, illnesses like mental illnesses which are not as obvious as the more external ones, but just as real, would likewise be able to be cured.

it does happen....these kinds of "miracles", from time to time.....however, as a general rule, this is not the nature of the 3d world that we have come to grow and learn in.....and i feel that there must be a reason for this. if all of these types of things came to us so easily before we were evolved enough to handle such capabilities, it might not be a good thing.

so basically, what i am trying to say, is that there is not always a simple answer to cure illnesses such as clinical depression, as those who perhaps don't understand would like to believe.


therefore, to get back to the topic....free will.

if clinical depression and mental illness (which are just as real as any physical illness) affect a person's emotions, etc to such a strong degree, then perhaps they cannot always be in control as those who are quick to judge and condemn might like to believe.

could this possibly be what ra meant, when they referred to free will as "the distortion of free will"?

i am certainly not saying that i think that there is no such thing as free will, as some philosophers believed.

on the contrary, i often find that what feel most right, on many subjects, seems to lie in the middle somewhere. :) ;)

so maybe, when it comes down to it, all we really need to learn is to just love each other, and ourselves, a little more.


love.

[FIIISH]

could this possibly be what ra meant, when they referred to free will as "the distortion of free will"?

perhaps free will could be viewed as a distortion in the context of "all are one"?

or maybe it's something to the effect of having the blessing of making a choice, but not always being able to control the choices available?

it appears to me that many of the challenges and difficulties we face are catalyst to learn, grow, and love.

as someone who has suffered from various forms of depression for most of my life, i can affirm that it has indeed help me foster compassion and understanding for others, and myself.

[soup]

that's curious - how "the distortion of free will" relates to depression etc.

generally there seems some related idea called the law of confusion that somehow supports the idea that the creator will have free choice in the ways it desires to know itself. so if there wasn't confusion, if we weren't veiled, than from some standpoint of greater awareness we may better choose somehow.

the idea of choice seems to imply consequences and the dire states in question may be in some regard a consequence for some choice in some way.

i've met a couple schitzo people who read me like an open book - in some amusing way, i saw nothing wrong with them other than an incompatibility with socially accepted behavior. so maybe the labels and social systems are consequence to a choice which limits a person to a depressing extent.

i knew a person contending with post partum depression syndrome, i learned that lack of regular sleep can lead to a depressed state which can lead to all sorts antidepressive pharmacutical solutions which can then lead to other less than great states of being.

possibly the relinquishment of healing authority to others such as doctors can seem in some cases a choice with consequences which enslave us in dire states of being. and possibly we need to get sick and tired of being sick and tired before we can break out of less than great thought cycles that support the quandry - and begin living in some other way l

[Adam of All]

ra would consider everything a distortion, simply because it deviates from the idea of complete oneness. by this logic, anything that is outside of oneness, or in other words, definite, is a distortion.

i also believe that free will was mentioned as being the first distortion of the law of one, rather than just being distorted.

[KassandraLoves]

i feel that most or all people have actually chosen to deal with all kinds of physical and mental disablities previous to incarnating for very good reasons. it might sound like a stupid decision to us now, but when we are in our spirit bodies, its probably looked at totally differently and objectively.

i feel its definitely a "heavy catalyst" as i call them, for growth. not only for the person it affects, but for those involved with that persons life as well. its an immensely difficult thing to struggle with, therefore it can yeild great advancements when assimilated properly. i know that its very hard to do it, but it wouldnt be an available life experience if it didnt have the capabilites of doing something good for the soul.

as an example, 3 people in my family (and even i used to) support the physically and mentally disable for a living. my mother has done it since i can even remember remembering and is still doing it so ive been around it for my entire life. and theres a lot to be learned from an onlooker or an indiviual involved with even just 1 person that has a disablity. its an amazing opportunity for service-to-others just to help someone in their daily lives like this. its a very hard job, too. and i think that disabilities come in many forms and even struggling with depression/chemical imbalances could be called somehwat of a mental disability. but the goal in experiencing it is there, its just really hard to see at times.

these are issues that we actually chose to incarnate with or around to grow. yes, people that have chemical imbalances can do some not-so-fun things like murder or rape or even just make their own lives more difficult on the lighter side. but at the same time, ive seen some people with forms of disability who have 10 times the happiness capacity than the "regular" folks.

my opinion all in all, is that we chose these things to deal with for our collective betterment. its like jumping in the water without floaties on. you'll learn waaaaay quicker the rules of swimming than the kid who wont let go of the poolside and every limb is wrapped in floaties. its seems a difficult thing while we are here right now, wrapped in confusion and having forgotten most of what we know, but i know that when we are incarnating, chosing these things to deal with is noble and a great way to accelerate if you think you can use it correctly...

[dazcox]

i think that there are moments of appreciation in the lives of all humans, even if that appreciation is from the humblest of meals and appreciation is always a free will thing.

if you can find a moment of joy in a situation where there is little comparative joy then you might justr be getting the big picture.

[soup]

possibly as part of out human condition there is a predestined healthcare component which in some ways can act to channel society's resources back into itself, healthcare seems expensive.

possibly thousands of years ago the pyramids were likewise part of some healthcare system which fell into the hands of the ellite.

people talk about our consumerism as if we are a disposable society. instead of fixing something when it is broken, many times it will be thrown away and replaced with new instead.

such an attitude may be part of our health issues, that instead of taking preventative measures we simply surrender to the idea of replacement.

from another perspective, the lions often hunt and feed upon the weak of the pack and this keeps the pack strong. instead of a slow painful miserable death the weak are put to chase and end in a quick glory of excitement. is the healthcare system like a feeble lion who mercifully milks the prey and is humanity a pack weakened by complacency having such a merciful predator?

somehow the fact that lifespans have shortened due to some shift in attitude needs to be reconciled - has the power/control influence ra mentions effectively weakened us? from the standpoint of longevity, what change of attitude has supported our progression so? were we meant to dysfunctionally baby each other in some codependant way which diminishes our quality of life as alternative to giving thanks and joyous praise for the glory of our being, or is this just another matter of so many choices and consequences?


soup

[Firewalker]

i think free will is more complex than. 'you have the ability to choose anything you want at any given moment'.

for instance, ra stated that, loosely phrased 'to accept the self is necessary. it is not for a being of third density to pick and choose among it's attributes.'

so obviously we do not have free will as implied in certain areas.

upon the subtle question of justice and fairness in this query, nobody should be judging and condemning them, firstly, and, aside from the contractual choice, this can be an almost conscious choice to get something like schizophrenia for instance, and was covered by ra in 'those that are unable to face the self for the first time, are disturbed by the influx of fourth density vibrations.'


hi everyone.....
in the ideal world, it would be a simple case of "mind over matter". people who are paralyzed or disabled in any way would be able to walk or be cured through the sheer power of their will and thought. we would all be able to transform our bodies to be whatever we desired. in the same way, illnesses like mental illnesses which are not as obvious as the more external ones, but just as real, would likewise be able to be cured.


i find healing to be quite different from this in my understanding so far. it's more about aligning intention with the creator, accepting the healing, the joy, the self, the life, the service to others path. only in certain cases, often for those with a very strong spiritual message, does it come to 'sheer power' of will. the will is used in finding the healing path.

[soup]

so there can seem a sense of confinement which seems to limit freedom of choice, say in one way - though may offer a power of focus in another by a nature of trade-offs. maybe holding a small candle flame to see within a great expanse of darkness is aligned with the divine intent inherent within the creation of our beingness - as if our situations contain such catalyst for a reason.

related to this seems part of what interests me in dw, his knack of riding the threshold of perceptions, of pioneering concepts which seem on a forefront of uncommon understanding. where many find themselves befuddled, dw can lend an inspiring perspective. maybe there is some example of holding an attitude conducive to progress. thanks for that, i imagine that if his attitude was somehow contageous than people may catch on and be better able to cope productively with whatever situation they find themselves in.


soup

[conundrum]

its not confinement that bothers me its the pain and suffering involved when i rebel against
my captives and having to do what i don't want to... if people want to be brain dead thats all well and good why does every one else have to pretend to enjoy it when there is obviously some thing incorrect .

for example being a human being is ridiculous our minds are corruptible and incompatible
our bodies are easily damaged and taken advantage of yet if some one says go **** your self this is in correct you a breaching every bodies free will... we do not want a stampede now do we ?

so if a person isolates them self from others they are looked upon to be negative beings?
i once seen a guy bashing his head against a brick wall i chose not to join in and walked away i choose not to walk in dog **** yet thats negative.

if you can look at others and learn and see that there is some thing not correct can you not choose to correct it in ones self if one chooses to do so or does a person have to pretend that they are happy so as not to infringe on some one else's free will.

telling people that there is free will is an infringement in itself so consequently breaches its own rule... looking at people and seeing an error is also a breach or is that a preference whom really knows we all get a head full of mush and bodies which are pain full we should be grateful for the experience regardless of how un enjoyable the experience is just be grateful.

and put on a happy face just like a cow does while you cut its throat and you turn it into burgers.

just be happy :) its all ?

[Firewalker]

i like the way you speak soup.

having read both yours and my own post in order, i've noticed you seem to go from one thing to the next, giving the impression that you're discovering it as you go along and bringing the reader with you.

seems i'm a bit more, 'here's how it is, here's the evidence.'

[3D Sunset]

hi ameliejolie,

i'd like to start by directly addressing your question. ra refers to free will as as the first distortion of the the law of one. it is a distortion in that it moves away from the law of one by creating the appearance of separation.


law of one book i, session 13
questioner: can you tell me how intelligent infinity became, shall we say (i’m having difficulty with the language), how intelligent infinity became individualized from itself.

ra: i am ra. this is an appropriate question. the intelligent infinity discerned a concept. this concept was discerned to be freedom of will of awareness. this concept was finity. this was the first and primal paradox or distortion of the law of one. thus the one intelligent infinity invested itself in an exploration of many-ness. due to the infinite possibilities of intelligent infinity there is no ending to many-ness. the exploration, thus, is free to continue infinitely in an eternal present.

as such, anything that is separated from intelligent infinity is distorted. such is obviously the case with free will, in that it is founded on separation. now, here is my favorite quote of ra on the subject of the mental distortions.


law of one book ii, session 30
questioner: is there any loss to the mind or spirit after this transition which we call death or any impairment of either because of the loss of this chemical body which we now have?

ra: i am ra. in your terms there is a great loss of mind complex due to the fact that much of the activity of the mental nature of which you are aware during the experience of this space/time continuum is as much of a surface illusion as is the chemical body complex.

in other terms nothing whatever of importance is lost; the character or, shall we say, pure distortion of emotions and biases or distortions and wisdoms, if you will, becoming obvious for the first time, shall we say; these pure emotions and wisdoms and bias/distortions being, for the most part, either ignored or underestimated during physical life experience.

so ra is saying that our true selves are far removed from our "mental" sleves. as such, it may well be that those that appear "mentally distorted" to our modern medical community, are, in fact, much more closely aligned to our true nature.

food for thought,

3d sunset

[Tenet Nosce]

just wanted to chime in with a couple of thoughts.

with regard to free will, we each have complete and utter control over the thoughts we think, and the thoughts we think are at the root of all psychological disorders, including depression.

just because we observe chemical imbalances in people who experience depression does not mean that chemical imbalances are the cause of depression.

as a physician, and as a person who has overcome depression and anxiety without the use of pharmaceutical drugs, i can say with surety that it is possible to cure depression and anxiety by the practices of meditation and deliberate thinking.

to be sure, patterns of habitual negative thinking can manifest in our brains as "preferred pathways" and particular chemical imbalances can make it difficult for us to get out of a rut, so to speak. yet realize that pharmaceutical interventions were originally intended to help take the "edge" off of anxiety and depression while we worked to change our thinking patterns.

unfortunately the crutch has been confused for the cure.

i know this is a sensitive subject and that for somebody who is in the grips of severe depression offering a smile and a simple "snap out of it" is probably the last thing that will be of any service to them.

all that i would point out is that we each have the ability to choose a better- feeling thought in each moment of every day. as we practice choosing better-feeling thoughts it will become easier and easier. eventually it will become second nature, and then you will have an individual who no longer suffers from depression.

i'm not saying it's easy, but simply that it's possible.

[transiten]

hi 3dsunset

well my mother was shizophrenic and also an elitist and rasist, so i question that anyone being mentally, or i would prefer "emotionally" ill, should be closer to "our true nature". anyhow, i have had contact with her through two english mediums, where she has asked me for forgivness and that she is now helping me to finally blossom.

liliane the transit

[soup]

so possibly through working through our catalyst with some diligence we can arrive at authentic states of happiness to a greater extent than if we say denied our catalyst and just arrived pretending to be happy? in some sense there seems some assumption that we need to earn happiness, in another there seems a sense that without earning it we arrive at some sort is shallow state short of our potential. maybe so. of course there seem other perspectives, where some choose a nonjudgmental approach and by such simplification can arrive at happiness - and others who may choose happiness as an inferior state to balanced neutrality independant of circumstance, as free of ups and downs. that our brains can come up with many reasons to promote less than happy states seems some mechanism exploited by the press which must be valuable in some way to all the people out there buying into it. as one grows aware of the nature of trade-offs than possibly one can better chose superior states of being by consciously letting go of the inferior, as if they fall short of supporting a person to their potential goodness.


soup

[ds37ds]

wrong thread

[3D Sunset]

well my mother was shizophrenic and also an elitist and rasist, so i question that anyone being mentally, or i would prefer "emotionally" ill, should be closer to "our true nature".

hi liliane,

hmmmm, sounds like mum had some more "distortions" than just emotional illness. it is difficult, sometimes, to distinguish between cause and effect in some of these distortions, and i never meant to imply that all mental / emotional illness has manifestations that are "closer to our true nature", just that some may.

glad to hear that she's asked for forgiveness. i notice that you didn't mention having forgiven her yet. is that significant?

3d sunset

[Adam of All]

whenever a negative thought pattern is explored, the body releases what can be considered a natural relaxant (something like an opiate) that calms us and makes us feel better. because of this, we become mildly to severely addicted to these thought patterns. these thoughts patterns are justified by all surrounding thought.

[transiten]

hi 3dsunset.

i have forgiven her and i took her to gothenburgh after a stroke. before thatwe had not had contact for 20 years, according to her wish and she denied i was hrer daughter. she was intelligent, musical and beautiful when she had her bright moments between mano-depression and persecutionmania. she had a difficult adolesence and i have no problem understanding her falling into this illness, especially when you think of the fear and intolerance in the 50:ies for mental disorder. i was with her when she passed away and i learned to love her finally as i "became the mother" as a medium said.

liliane the transit

[transiten]

3dsunset

my brother just called and told me that his mother/my stepmother passed away last night, just a short time after my post about my mother passing away. she did not treat me well emotionally, she was jealous and managed to keep me separated form the rest of the family. in the latest years our contact was getting better and better and i've tried to forgive her. i can also understand where she was coming from.

my father and my halfbrother and sister and my stepsister suddenly come closer. i feel love for my stepmother and i'm crying tears for the reason we could not talk openly about what happened in our relationship. i live on the westcoast and they on the eastcoast. i talked to her twice though for rather a long time one and a half week ago.

i'm seeing forward to have contact with her through a medium and we will make peace finally.

liliane

[mwr1026]

ra would consider everything a distortion...

adam is on the right track here. we tend to think of the word "distortion" as meaning perverse, damaged, or inferior in some way. but as adam points out, everything is a distortion of the law of one. ra even referrs to love as a distortion. ra is making no value judgement in using this term.

the easiest way for me to grasp what distortion means in the context of loo is to consider a musical chord that contains all the notes of an octave held constantly with no variation at all. if you hear such a chord you will probably notice it at first, but after a while it becomes white noise in the background and you cease to hear it. but distort that chord in any possible way: pulse it rythmically or erratically, turn the volume up or down on various notes in the chord, tweak the shape of the complex of sound waves of the chord in any way, and suddenly you hear it again and perceive it as being varied and complex. reality is like this chord: pure, undifferentiated oneness. distortion is the modulation of that oneness that makes it possible for beings such as us to perceive the potential complexity and sophistication of the chord. this distortion is infinite in potential.

[3D Sunset]

my brother just called and told me that his mother/my stepmother passed away last night, just a short time after my post about my mother passing away. she did not treat me well emotionally, she was jealous and managed to keep me separated form the rest of the family. in the latest years our contact was getting better and better and i've tried to forgive her. i can also understand where she was coming from.

my father and my halfbrother and sister and my stepsister suddenly come closer. i feel love for my stepmother and i'm crying tears for the reason we could not talk openly about what happened in our relationship. i live on the westcoast and they on the eastcoast. i talked to her twice though for rather a long time one and a half week ago.

i'm seeing forward to have contact with her through a medium and we will make peace finally.

liliane,

i'm sad for your loss, but happy (and quite impressed) for you at working to resolve things with her before, during and after her passing.

love and light,

3d sunset

[soup]

that word distortion may carry some stigma which suggests aspects that may seem less than great, less than desireable, less than harmonious. it seems difficult to comprehend the context the useage there seem examples in nature where distortion can seem quite pleasing, entertaining, and amusing and so part of making peace with our condition may be related to positioning ourselves in the right perspective which allows the positive connotations of distortion to catalyze our growth in an enjoyable way.

an example of getting along with difficult to relate to relatives by giving them space and time (to die) before attempting reconcilliation could fit such a pattern of managing position and perspective on distortion in a way which can benevolently catalyze growth.


soup

[transiten]

3dsunset....

thankyou for your kind remarks. also it is a real gift to have this forum to turn to even in personal matters, and how daily life blend into the more abstract discussions about it. (i have not mastered the quotationbutton yet but i'm sure you'll find my post;)

it also struck me that i'm thankful that my stepmother gave me sistes and a brother that i now can have more and better contact with.

i watched a beautiful 3d sunset from my sungazingtree on a hill the day before yesterday where the :) passed behind a cloud that was surrounded with a golden border and a broad misty sunray came out of it and lit up a forest below, and now it's glowing on the yellow leaves outside my window.

liliane transiten

[Adam of All]

adam is on the right track here. we tend to think of the word "distortion" as meaning perverse, damaged, or inferior in some way. but as adam points out, everything is a distortion of the law of one. ra even referrs to love as a distortion. ra is making no value judgement in using this term.

the easiest way for me to grasp what distortion means in the context of loo is to consider a musical chord that contains all the notes of an octave held constantly with no variation at all. if you hear such a chord you will probably notice it at first, but after a while it becomes white noise in the background and you cease to hear it. but distort that chord in any possible way: pulse it rythmically or erratically, turn the volume up or down on various notes in the chord, tweak the shape of the complex of sound waves of the chord in any way, and suddenly you hear it again and perceive it as being varied and complex. reality is like this chord: pure, undifferentiated oneness. distortion is the modulation of that oneness that makes it possible for beings such as us to perceive the potential complexity and sophistication of the chord. this distortion is infinite in potential.

that is an excellent insite on the subject. i'm very happy to have read that at all. thank you for posting that :-)

[transiten]

hi mwr1026

i love all alludations (is that a word?) to music in connection to our universe. as a guy said in the sacred geometry-thread -our matrial world is "frozen music".......

[mwr1026]

hi mwr1026

i love all alludations (is that a word?) to music in connection to our universe. as a guy said in the sacred geometry-thread -our material world is "frozen music".......
i cannot find "alludation" in my dictionary. that just means that they don't know that you have created the word yet. :cool: if we all use it for a while and know its meaning, the dictionary will pick it up eventually. generally the language is resistant to formulation of redundant synonyms from the same root word though, so good luck. it can happen, but tends not to. we tend to accept new meanings for old words much more readily, like this "new" definition of "distortion."

but "allusion" is probably the word you were looking for. it means something alluded to. totally different from "illusion" which means something that appears differently from it's reality. this illustrates that spelling sometimes matters. that's why we get those little red lines under words sometimes. :)

my training is in theoretical linguistics, so please forgive me if i go off on stuff like spelling and semantics and such.

[transiten]

hi mrew1026

:)theoretical linguistics! wow.. i think our languages and ethymology is extremely interesting! "allude" is a synonyme to "hint" so i was forming a noun of that verb being too lazy to lok it up first in the dictionary, not knowing that "allusion" without "de" already existed.
by the way i recorded an album in 1971 called "illusions", maybe my new one should be called "allusions" "allusioner" ;) (hint) but i think i'll choose something more spiritual.

neptunic somewhat "desillusioned" :dscorpio

[soup]

some suggest that a good percentage of communication goes on non-verbally, that other cues help to transfer more complete meaning.

in story telling this may utilized in descriptions of behavior that suplement whatever conversation transpires.

anyhow, within the ra materials seems episodes where the condition of "the instrument" seemed the focus of attention. it was as if the useage of such description somewhat de-humanized carla the channel in order to render some feeling her body had been rendered into some sort of mechanical device used for communication - but is that entirely true?

is it possible that some important essence of carla was observing the conversation and rebelling in some way, in some occurances, as reaction to information shared that was not to her liking?

another component i consider in what was being "alluded to" is the distraction some of the information may have been to jim, depending of course on the quality of his attention. that is, i consider the possibility that in some cases for whatever reason, jim was unable to flow love/light to carla in a supportive sense which resulted in a sort of communication breakdown...

for example, don asks some prodding question, ra retorts in some less than aprehensible way, jim gets distracted and stops ressonating, carla rebels, and so the instrument doesn't seem so well for some mysterious reason. i wonder if such cause and effect intermingling could have transpired so.

soup