Did Jesus exist or not??

[FooSnik]

i have heard so many strong arguments for both sides. i am sure many of you have seen the film "zeitgeist". the beginning of it lays out a decent argument that jesus was only a personification of cycles of the sun. and then i read this:


over 40 authors and libraries worth of writings that have survived the times of jesus life and shortly after, and he is not mentioned once. even by st. paul. imagine that, in all of st. paul's letters, he never quotes jesus or talks about a story of jesus. not once. paul was supposed to have been there! if you witnessed the son of god do miracles and were the first to spread his church you would be quoting him left and right and speaking of his incredible deeds.


i don't think a single person here would dispute with me how corrupted the religious institutions became in the history of this planet. so why wouldn't they twist and exploit such a powerful message? why wouldn't some evil genius create a story like this up in order to control the people? evil can be extremely creative when it comes to finding a means to their end.

but then i have read several books in which a person, through hpynotic regression, has remembered a lifetime with jesus. this trance state, as we all know from edgar cayce and the "law or one" books, can be extremely accurate. bypassing the limitations of our 3d consciousness, and accessing the collective/super (or whatever you want to call it) consciousness.

which brings me to another, larger question. could both exist at the same time? could he both have been a myth and a real man at the same time? i mean, what exists in mind exists in reality, right?

could there be infinite parallel "pasts" just like there is infinite possible futures?

i guess we all must trust our gut on this one and my gut tells me that he was a man and his story has been distorted and exploited. but i would love to here what all of your guts are telling you.

salute!
:d

[FooSnik]

i have heard so many strong arguments for both sides. i am sure many of you have seen the film "zeitgeist". the beginning of it lays out a decent argument that jesus was only a personification of cycles of the sun. and then i read this:


over 40 authors and libraries worth of writings that have survived the times of jesus life and shortly after, and he is not mentioned once. even by st. paul. imagine that, in all of st. paul's letters, he never quotes jesus or talks about a story of jesus. not once. paul was supposed to have been there! if you witnessed the son of god do miracles and were the first to spread his church you would be quoting him left and right and speaking of his incredible deeds.


i don't think a single person here would dispute with me how corrupted the religious institutions became in the history of this planet. so why wouldn't they twist and exploit such a powerful message? why wouldn't some evil genius create a story like this up in order to control the people? evil can be extremely creative when it comes to finding a means to their end.

but then i have read several books in which a person, through hpynotic regression, has remembered a lifetime with jesus. this trance state, as we all know from edgar cayce and the "law of one" books, can be extremely accurate. bypassing the limitations of our 3d consciousness, and accessing the collective/super (or whatever you want to call it) consciousness.

which brings me to another, larger question. could both exist at the same time? could he both have been a myth and a real man at the same time? i mean, what exists in mind exists in reality, right?

could there be infinite parallel "pasts" just like there is infinite possible futures?

i guess we all must trust our gut on this one and my gut tells me that he was a man and his story has been distorted and exploited. but i would love to here what all of your guts are telling you.

love to all!
:d

[BillD]

paul was not "there", if you mean it in the context i think you do. his conversion to christianity came after the death and resurrection of jesus. as for not mentioning jesus or stories of him, there are many possibilities to explain this. one simple explanation is that the name "jesus" is essentially a nickname given to him by the writers of the canonized scriptures, but was not his true name. there are many arguments about what his name actually was, but nobody knows for sure.

as for the question of whether or not he really existed...personally, i have no doubt that he did. totally aside from other reasons/sources, i read somewhere recently that there are records in monasteries located in tibet and india which mention him travelling there and doing the same sorts of things described in the bible. apparently, this took place during his youth and after the crucifixion.

like many others, i believe that his teachings were not preserved in their pristine form and were severely distorted for a variety of reasons. however, i am not inclined to dismiss him outright, and certainly not with the venom and aggression that so many others these days are willing to do. i think there is a lot of truth to be found there if one truly has an open mind.
i think that to discard anything outright is a mistake, since everything contains at least some elements of truth (even lies!)...likewise, to believe any one thing as totality is also a mistake, since such singularity of thought inevitably brings various forms of blindness.

in the end, we all must assess the truth for ourselves and we all see what we want to see, regardless of how "enlightened" we may like to think we are or who we may be talking to.

[SuperManny]

did jesus exist or not?? i have heard so many strong arguments for both sides. i am sure many of you have seen the film "zeitgeist". imho, yes, he did indeed exist, but didn't do many of the things he's credited for. the christian religion was, for the most part, created by constantine, (except for paul's [rather large] part) and he just rolled different aspects of many religions into one, so that it would appeal to a wider audience.

yes i've seen zeitgeist, and it may not be perfect, but it raises many valid points. i still have some vague, past-life memories of fighting to the death, while trying to protect him, and it seemed pretty real to me.



over 40 authors and libraries worth of writings that have survived the times of jesus life and shortly after, and he is not mentioned once. even by st. paul. imagine that, in all of st. paul's letters, he never quotes jesus or talks about a story of jesus. not once. paul was supposed to have been there! if you witnessed the son of god do miracles and were the first to spread his church you would be quoting him left and right and speaking of his incredible deeds. i don't know where you read this, but some of the historical writers of the time did indeed mention jesus. and also paul was not there at the time, and he did not witness "the son of god do miracles" because he never met him. paul didn't enter the picture until years after the death of jesus, so maybe that's why he didn't mention him.:cool:

[metaman]

perhaps the zeitgeist presenters where not factoring in the fractal nature of our conscious universe. yes the astrological synchronism they uncover about the repetitiousness of the jesus story from the previous civilizations is undeniably accurate. however, there is a good chance that the universe sincronistically caused the actual happenings surrounding these stories to be in direct correlation to the astrological happenings. this is in contrast to their conclusion that jesus and his predecessors where some how concocted to hide the actual truth of the astrology present.

if they wanted to hide this truth, then why tell about it at all.

[FooSnik]

imho, yes, he did indeed exist, but didn't do many of the things he's credited for. the christian religion was, for the most part, created by constantine, (except for paul's [rather large] part) and he just rolled different aspects of many religions into one, so that it would appeal to a wider audience.

yes i've seen zeitgeist, and it may not be perfect, but it raises many valid points. i still have some vague, past-life memories of fighting to the death, while trying to protect him, and it seemed pretty real to me.
i don't know where you read this, but some of the historical writers of the time did indeed mention jesus. and also paul was not there at the time, and he did not witness "the son of god do miracles" because he never met him. paul didn't enter the picture until years after the death of jesus, so maybe that's why he didn't mention him.:cool:

alright, thanks for your response. this jesus thing has become so convoluted. i feel in my gut that he was a real man too. i have also heard that he had exceptionally psychic abilities, even as a small child. and much of his compassion and righteousness came from a particularly traumatic event that happened when he was a kid. i heard that when he was very young, he became angry with a friend and accidentally killed him, and then brought this kid back to life out of saddness and guilt. this is the humanity that they left out of the bible. he was a man with man-like emotions just like the rest of us.

of course none of us actually lived back then so there is no way to say %100 for sure what happened.

love to all,
foo

[litllady]

i think jesus was a real man. i believe alot of the real scriptures were burnt. i love reading the parables, i dont know who wrote them, but there is obviously a peace, love, understanding teaching that seems to be with the stories of christ. i think the symbolism of what he did has a much deeper meaning then what people are willing to look at. teachings of how to weigh what is of love and what is of darkness. i love the parables of the seed and the vineyard and the wine press. i love the parables of the yeast in the dough. these teachings might of even been older then christ, and he was able to go to the other countries and use his intuition in him to pass on what ever teachings of peace and love still existed.


there are 2 gospels that i love to read, ive posted them before. gospels of the holy twelve and the gospels of peace. they ring music in my ears. i dont know if they are truly from christ, but the message is true.

matthew 6 verse 22 the light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy while body shall be full of light.

i do believe christ is as much a part of us as we are of him. i believe in the story of how christ (the first of the first fruits) opened a 'new womb'...i think we get confused when people call christ the savior or messiah....they dont want to think that without christ we cant have eternal life. we have came a long way in understanding why peace and love are the only way. 2000 yrs ago, it may of been just what the people needed to ponder on...peace and love and the true ideas of why one should strive to be true unto themselves and true unto their other selves. i believe the reason christ was so rejected was he taught us to look within...the masses of the people were afraid of this, for it would take away the power that the temples and religion held over the people. he came to change their ways and they didn't want that.

peace to all,
lynette

[Philip Q]

for the last several years, following the jesus life/myth/comination thereof has been sort of a hobby of mine. consequently, i've run across a number of books and online sources regarding this question. to begin by stating my current conclusion/opinion on the matter: yes, he existed as a historical person, but the early catholic church, under constantine's direction/influence, had a political agenda that created major distortions in his life and message(s) that make a current accurate assessment of them virtually impossible at this time without the possible documents the vatican may have buried in its archives somewhere. there's a guy i ran across a reference to once who i can't remember the name of who traced roman geneological records and claims that the new testament was originally a sort of historical novel, mostly, if not entirely, fiction, written by the roman general piso, also known as josephus, and his family (to increase their income probably, as it became popular).

i find it rather ironic that most people who profess themselves to be christians are more interested in following the myth (the virgin birth, the "miracles", the resurrection) than in following his teachings. despite the paucity of them in the canonical gospels and the lack of them in the epistles, what is left of them still allows an ethical basis on which to live one's life that is probably as good or better than any other that has come down the pike within the last few millennia (at least in the west).

a biblical/dead sea scroll scholar from australia spent twenty years decoding the new testament gospels and acts according to the pesher of habbakuk in the dead sea scrolls and came up with some very interesting data: jesus was not born in bethlehem (instead in a small building a few meters south of the qumran monastery/fortress), he was married twice and fathered four children, he was not crucified in jerusalem, but in qumran (she gives the exact spot within inches), and did not die on the cross, and most of the "miracles" can easily be explained by the use of idioms common at the time (for example, "walking on water" was an idiom for walking across the wharf to get to the boat), and, finally, jesus went to rome with peter and paul after the crucifixion.

imo, the nt was deliberately coded by those who wrote it (and only in the greek version, another hurdle for romans who didn't speak it, rabbis of that time being required to speak all 19 languages of the region as one of the requirements for becoming one, so "jesus" was no dummy, "jesus" himself possibly writing at least parts of the gospel of john while he was awaiting mary magdalene to give birth to the required son to carry on the lineage of king david) to mislead the romans as to their activities and inspire converts to their version of judaism, but it was only able to be decoded after the discovery of the dead sea scrolls, although the pesher code is basically quite simple (two others, at least, were employed, including the already commonly known one of gematria).

she put her findings (up to the point of publication; she may have had even more subsequently in another book: she has/had an online discussion group, but only open to serious scholars) in a probably still out of print book called [please pm for title] (i believe it was published in australia under the title [please pm]). that book seems to cover the actual life of jesus up to the time he went to rome (c. 61 ad), but his later life is revealed (to my satisfaction, anyway) in another book called [please pm]. apparently he may have gone to southern france either with mary magdalene (his first wife, euphemistically referred to as his companion in the gospel of philip, one the gospels found in the nag hammadi documents, and considered by gnostic christians to be of virtually equal importance to jesus himself [at least in principle; the gnostics considered both of them to be divine and symbolic only, not physical], which is why their activities were so actively suppressed [possibly to the point of "ethnic cleansing", i.e, mass murder] by both the patriarchal jews and the church) or to visit her and his son after his second marriage to a greek woman, eventually setting in srinegar, where he was buried at the age of 120, after giving sermons where he subsequently became known as avelokiteshvara, the compassionate buddha (!), although he was regarded as the prophet yuz asaf in the small jewish diaspora community at the time.

i found confirmation of this last assertion in another, recent "fluff" book [please pm] written by an australian tv journalist who visited india and was told virtually the same thing by an ak-47-toting muslim. there's a muslim guarding his mausoleum in downtown old town 24/7, and another at moses' gravesite, where there's a small egyptian-style stele marking it, a few miles up the road, since islam considers both of them to be prophets. there's also some rumors that he may have made it to japan (you can really get around, even on foot, in 120 years; as i recall, the book of mormon says he came to the us on a cloud, which might have been a lot faster means of transport in those days, depending on the wind speed and direction).

whatever you choose to believe, or fail to believe, about him, the "jesus" story has certainly had more influence on history in the last couple millenia than that of any other person, real or fictional, with the possible exception of siddharta gotama ("the" buddha [one of maybe over 700]).

peace, philip

[Adam of All]

as far as the astrological factor presented by the "zeitgeist" movie is concerned, there can be no doubt that what was said is true. however, do we not all have our astrological signs? do we not also have a specific astro-chart at the time of our birth?

consider david wilcock - his chart is the same as edgar cayce's. this was no coincidence, but it is rather the way of the universe. the chart of jesus, and horus, and whoever else was brought up in the aforementioned movie happens to be (arguably) the most significant astrological arrangement from our earthbound perspective. these people, more or less with christ consciousness, came time and time again to teach of the law of one.

"zeitgeist" simply made a far more interesting and dare i say more plausible case for the historical figure we know as jesus.

for those of you that would prefer to read books that would otherwise be included in the bible, look into the books of nag hammadi. these were found in the 1930's or so, and have not gone through the hands or authority of anybody in power. in other words, the writings are intact. you'll be surprised to see how different the lessons to be had in the books are from those in the bible, yet the central message of the law of one is there.

[PamelaK]

i feel in my "spirit" that jesus was the christ and he came in the flesh so he could show us the love and mercy of his father who i believe to be "god" or "i am". i am not sure if everything in our bible today is true, but the true reason jesus came into our lives is very simple and we make it so difficult to see. it was a message of love, peace, mercy and forgiveness towards each other. i also believe as he stated so many times that his father does exist and our way to a higher place (heaven) is through christ himself. most of my stern beliefs come about by the energy or spark that i feel in my spirit, my deep place where things get sifted and sorted about until i come to a point of realization of what i believe to be true. i have studied for over 30 years being a christian and i have found nothing yet to move me any other way. christ came to show us that man could be held to a higher level and degree, in the way we treat and relate to each other. we are all connected to him and to each other and to our world as a whole. anyway, that's my two cents worth.
peace and love,
pamelak

[tigermoff]

i've never been a believer in anything spiritual until a couple of months ago and now i believe that jesus did exist. i believe he was a higher density being in a 3d body who came to point us in the right direction and then over the years the writings were changed to give the powers that be more control over the population.

i remember david saying that the film powder was nearly the life story of his contact in the black ops. powder seems like a 4d being in a 3d body, so if that's a possibility then i guess that jesus and his 'miracles' would seem to be along the same lines. jesus did say that one day we would be able to perform the same fetes as him and more.

[PamelaK]

tigermoff,
in defence of what you said about st. paul, he spent his whole life teaching and preaching the gospel of jesus. no, he was not a witness at the time that christ was with the other disciples but jesus choose saul (paul) to be the teacher of the gentles and the world. paul was taught what he needed to know by people christ brought into his life and he had 3 years in the desert being taught by the holy spirit. remember also, peter had a large part to paul's understanding of the teachings of jesus. paul had to stand before the church in jerlusrem and give an account of his faith and how he came to be a christian after killing and prsicute so many of them. james (the brother of jesus) was the leader of the new way and he had a hard time accepting that paul had really changed. it was through peter's standing up for him and the teachings that paul was preaching, that he was given the blessing of "the way" and if you read any of his letters they are dripping with nothing but jesus and what he meant and stands for and how to have faith in his kingdom and know the love and the grace of christ and all love for all mankind and acceptance of each other in the name of love. i am not trying to preach to you or anyone else. i just felt i needed to clear up the fact that paul was a true deciple of jesus.
peace to you,
pamelak

[estopatitiana]

well the law of one said he existed, he was a 4d wanderer and his name was different its something like jehosua, not jesus.

[litllady]

did i miss something. i dont see where tiger mentions st. paul?

[FooSnik]

for the last several years, following the jesus life/myth/comination thereof has been sort of a hobby of mine. consequently, i've run across a number of books and online sources regarding this question. to begin by stating my current conclusion/opinion on the matter: yes, he existed as a historical person, but the early catholic church, under constantine's direction/influence, had a political agenda that created major distortions in his life and message(s) that make a current accurate assessment of them virtually impossible at this time without the possible documents the vatican may have buried in its archives somewhere.

whatever you choose to believe, or fail to believe, about him, the "jesus" story has certainly had more influence on history in the last couple millenia than that of any other person, real or fictional, with the possible exception of siddharta gotama ("the" buddha [one of maybe over 700]).

peace, philip

wow, awesome phillip. thanks for the information. even more food for thought as if my plate wasn't already full of jesus material. i just heard another theory, and they really backed it up with some very detailed and complicated reasoning, that jesus was the son of julias caesar and cleopatra. and when the assassination of caesar happened is when jesus was sent away to live with friends and begin his spiritual journey. i won't even begin to try to list the whole story because it would take up a lot of space. but just let me know if you want a link to the video. it is very interesting.

thanks to everyone.

foo :)

[Joshua]

the way david pronounced it "yehosua" actually is joshua in hebrew. yesua is jesus.

[Joshua]

i was reading the previous posts and wanted to point out that the astrological signs we all know and love were developed in babylon 3000 yrs ago. the significance is that over time the constellations which they are based on will move out of alignment. this is because of the movement of our own solar system. being that 3000 years have passed the charts are no longer correct. so when most people think that the sun is aligned with capricorn for example, it's actually in sagittarius.

[Berry Chastain]

i believe that jesus did indeed live in the time and place that it is recorded that he did. the very fact that a whole sect of jews of that time suddenly started following the way and that the traditions became so widely spread around that within 100 years of jesus' supposed death and ressurection there were followers in the whole eastern part of the mediterranean area indicates strongly that a real person by the name of jesus existed.

the eastern european and middle eastern traditions are not the only historical records of jesus' existance. there is an ancient text in a buddhist monastery in himmis in tibet that records some of the life of jesus, know there as issa, and relates his travels and teachings in what is now india, pakistan and kasmir. here is a link that provides a translation of the life of st. issa. http://www.reluctant-messenger.com/issa.htm.

it is fascinating information.
blessing to all,
berry

[transiten]

joshua

this is a very old and passé debate and i'm not going to initiate it here. the astrological sunsigns we still use are totally valid. the zodiak is a manmade-up mandala, and the size of the constellations vary very much; virgo f.i is much bigger than all the other constellations, but all signs only have 30 degress each.

liliane the transit

[Philip Q]

foosnik: i just heard another theory, and they really backed it up with some very detailed and complicated reasoning, that jesus was the son of julias caesar and cleopatra. and when the assassination of caesar happened is when jesus was sent away to live with friends and begin his spiritual journey. i won't even begin to try to list the whole story because it would take up a lot of space. but just let me know if you want a link to the video. it is very interesting.

well, yes, the link might be worth a gander. i was looking for something to read on going to bed or waking up a day or two ago and pulled the gospel of mary magdalene off the shelf. it's a document with several missing pages that was found in some archive around 1885 or so, and contains some interesting teaching material in the book, with a lot of commentary, most of which is caballistic speculation, but i was reminded of the fact that there is (or was, if madass hussein or the us raiders currently killing about 300 iraqis a day didn't wipe them out) a sect centered around northern iraq, but with a few stray believers in syria and the rest of the middle east that adheres to the idea that the nt was a cover story for john the baptist, and (my idea) jesus may have been the "wicked priest" in the dead sea scrolls that usurped his place in qumran, the cut off "head" being a symbol for that (like the mafia idea that if you cut off the head [like they may have killed jfk {as willing surrogate agents of the cia, which wanted him dead because he was passing on their reports to kruschchev through rfk}, expecting rfk would get off their case, but johnson kept him on, necessitating, in their view {and the cia's}, his assassination, which was a lot "cleaner" in diverting attention from their rôle]). if true, that could produce further obfuscation as to the place of jesus in "real" history. another problem in this whole scenario that i ran into recently was the authors of [please pm for title] (which i finally got around to starting to read this week) found documents missing in the vatican archives (which are supposedly open now to scrutiny) that relate to the early church history as seen through its founders. but it's an accepted fact by most scholars that christianity was a result of massive alteration of its original nature as a "brotherhood" when it was transformed into the state religion of the roman empire by constantine, who laid all sorts of pagan beliefs on the original supposed teachings, followed by a radical "cleansing" of all the gnostic beliefs through destruction of manuscripts and possibly wholesale "ethnic cleansing". jeshua's life would just be a major agatha christie mystery if it wasn't so central to much of what's happened globally since (a butterfly flaps its wings in brazil, and katrina happens? - i recently saw something that claimed it might have been a haarp project to divert attention from political happenings at the time or part of the ongoing plan to destroy the integrity of the us, but then, another source that said that haarp was a "good guys" project set up to hopefully prevent the poles from shifting - you pays your money and takes your choice, depending on your ct orientation). so much for a brief reply.

peace, philip

[Dianin33]

hi guys, i am new :)

i feel the same as you pamelak. only through intuition and trust i believe he is the one. but i think all things are created by god and the teachings were made for human language and understanding way back in the days, still i do meditations and have been reading here and watching a couple of videos on the ascension which i am very inclined, and i am sure we get constant help, but to me the message of jesus is clear and it is applicable to today and in consistency with what i've been reading here about love, compassion and love enemy, etc...

i just can't discard him or substitute him. still i hold no judgement on anyone or anything and i get annoyed by fear methods, but i just cant dettach from him and the idea that we can be as god but through god... anyway, i hope it is not a lot of babbering to you guys.

will be around ;)

[Philip Q]

i was reading the previous posts and wanted to point out that the astrological signs we all know and love were developed in babylon 3000 yrs ago. the significance is that over time the constellations which they are based on will move out of alignment. this is because of the movement of our own solar system. being that 3000 years have passed the charts are no longer correct. so when most people think that the sun is aligned with capricorn for example, it's actually in sagittarius.

it would seem that, if maurice cotterell [who david linked to in a recent blog] is correct in his research and conclusions about astrology that the astrological signs are actually cosmological referents to the monthly changes in the quality of sun emissions that effect most strongly the dna of the developing fetus, but also the newborn infant and later throughout life, but the chinese astrology refers to the sunspot cycles, so the current astrological tables are indeed inaccurate because of the misdirection and consequent misunderstanding of where the influences actually come from, remembering that over 98% of the mass of the solar system is contained in the sun, and that the sun is far more electromagnetically active than any other nearby cosmological body and would virtually overwhelm the local influence of earth itself if it weren't for the van allen belts subduing its effects.

more specifically regarding the topic of this thread, though, cotterell's viewpoint might point to the continuing reincarnation of the "jesus" personality as viracocha, buddha, krishna, etc., possibly whenever needed by a given civilization as "the only son of god" as well as when such an incarnation would be most effective for humanity as a whole.

peace, philip

[lebowski san]

i think jc existed.

i believe that the jc we often hear about is a huge over mystification of a real enlightened man. there is a lot of overlap between what he did, or supposedly did, and other religions, but his message is what is important: interaction with your fellow humans and don't be afraid. when we get over our fears and can interact with those we normally wouldn't, we become enlightened and gain wisdom, understanding, knowledge, etc. i'm sure that he was a real jovial personality too. all great teachers are.

i'm also interested in the "super sage" who taught the 7 sages of ancient greece, who in turn laid the foundations for what we consider classical greece. some of those sages could have their souls leave their bodies at will. but the 7 were all apparently taught by a master who vanished as quickly as he appeared. i wonder if the whole "shepard" metaphor isn't too off after all.

one thing is for sure, eventually, we'll all find out.

peace to you all

[nirvanapirate]

from what i've gathered, jesus did definatly exist and walk and do some of what was reported.:p i think he had extensive training, and he may have been a special type of consciousness, just as every bhudda is picked out. there were reports of a jesus type figure in many other cultures around the world around that time. i've heard the he appeared in south america back in the day when he was living.;)

the crucifixion is a horribly sad story, this and other fear :eek:stories in the bible and told by the church has been holding back human consciousness for way too long. you are what you eat, so focus on positive stories when it comes to the bible.:)

[Flying Pyramid]

this is a very short and maybe unhelpful addition to this thread but i feel compelled to post anyway.

christ as we all know is nothing more than a title. meaning " the anointed one". everybody argues the fact wether "he" was the "son of god" or not, did or did he not do miracles and was or was not mary magdolin his wife and mother of his child(ren).

the question at it's core is "did a man who was names jesus, or like, exist at all", wether or wether not he accomplished anything.
the answer is for each person to find on their own.

ask yourself this: "if you were alive at such a time, in 'the cradle of life', and you knew what you know today about spirituality and perhaps you possessed abilities not common placed in this world, how would you give a message to others about what you knew?"

put yourself in the story as jesus, and in your mid put yourself into the reality of that time along with everything earth bound and off world going on at that time, and you will come to an answer, wether you agree with the answer or not the answer will reveal itself to you.

is it a story repeating itself through our various religions or is it a story of things to come once again?

if this planet has gone though several changes spanning 75,000 years each time then you must take into account that reality is perspective.
you are the viewer. you from your perspective with your limit of knowledge is the one judging these questions.

me personally, i believe that i do not care neither hear nor there, it is the message that counts then and it is the very same message that counts today, from all religions, from all things the message that is given is the knowledge that is taken.

"all the things i do, you will do and more for i go onto my father". - jesus

"do not dwell on the details, relish in the everlasting human spirit" - flying pyramid

[Deerclan]

very interesting thread, and this is the first time i have seen it. my feelings on the main question is that yes, jesus was real. that is a gut feeling i arrived at as a freshman in college, when i read the gospels on my own for the first time. jesus came through as a personality i think anybody would have difficulty making up as a piece of fiction - a rebel, and upstart, a very wise man with a hot temper and impatience for social institutions and authorities mis-using their power to repress the poor and the weak. feeling so inspired by jesus' values and priorities might very well have contributed to my eventual decision to major in social work. this may be begging the question, but even if somebody did offer me evidence that he did not exist as a real person, he would still be real to me because he inspired me to do things like stand up for what i feel is right, and stand up for people who don't have a voice of their own.

i also agree with all the posts talking about constantine adding and changing the story for his own political purposes. the major "christian holidays" are so close to the major pagan days, the solstices & equinoxes, that it makes it hard to come to any other conclusion. for me, part of the magic of it is that no matter how hard constantine and his minions might have worked to wash, dry, starch, iron, and sanitize the actual story, for me he failed to quash the essence of the story because the personality of a man who had such a strong sense of divine mission still shines through.

i further agree with the posts about how meanings of words and sayings have changed. george lamsa has written scholarly work about it, based on growing up in an area so isolated that the language and culture remained unchanged for millenia. things like "cut off your right hand" according to lamsa means to "cut it out," to stop what you are doing wrong. lamsa makes a great deal of sense to me.

like i said - interesting thread.

-- deerclan

[Vermillion]

i beleive in jesus the man, jehosepha or how ever you spell it :)

what i think is that the man existed... but there was also a mythical story made to put him on the front page as the son of god... but mearly he was just a very awake individual who went through an asenscion process. whch then became worshipped.

the elites did not want people to know they too had the power and ability to do the things he did and become like him, so they clouded up the story of him with a ton of lies and mythology and hid it away from people.

luckily the veils are thinning :)

[Deambor]

hi, fellow sekers.

i'm puzzled by the question.

search your inner depths, check with higher self, and you find not only he existed - he exists as we speak.

go backl to ra materials. the one we refer as jesus was one of high 4th dimension, who was ready to graduate to the 5th, but instead chose to go back to the 3rd. his mission was promoting love of one infinite creator.

since then he grew much more powerful up there.

he is an important part of lifting us into 4d upon our phisical death now.

my limited understanding, which i obtained through meditation once is this:

befor jesus did his thing here on earth, the masses (us) were not all taken to light place after physical death, only selected few (like saints and sages) could get there.

what he accomplished is similar to a resetting the default setting in the system - now the light is accessible to all us in the in between incarnation zone. that is a huge thing.

not being a christian at all, i always pay highest respect to jesus.

love to all

deambor

[aqcheryl]

ive come to the belief that in reality, jesus is really an ascended being, who came to show us love and the light. ascended beings have the power to do many things even on this plane/dimension, and that is why he was able to perform certain miracles.

christianity, however, has exaggerated claims, and misled believers by turning jesus into a physical icon, versus the spiritual one jesus was portraying to prove.

i saw zeitgeist, and provided all the information is correct, in regards to how he matches many other figures that came before him, it merely points out to me that ascended beings come to our aid at planned and precise moments, to help us in our growth. so i dont agree with them saying he didnt exist - he very well did, as others before him, and we are now entering the time when a new one is supposed to come.

i read or heard somewhere months ago that one of the mayan beliefs of 2012 was that an ascended being would come to us then, and if i am remembering that correctly...

well i think regardless we should watch out for water-bearers :)

[litllady]

hello aqcheryl

interesting posts there and i just wanted to add a thought....which might not be anything really, or it could be huge....

on sidereal time, david is a aquarius. when david was born, the sun actually was rising in aquarius, but a tropical zodiac would say he is a pisces.

interesting huh

love lynette

[aqcheryl]

hi lynette,
that is interesting. how does one find out sidereal time and all that?

anyways, as we all are the answers we seek, we must look within for the "messiah" - i believe its the project camelot interview where david says this - however we do need guidance in a awakening to our inner selves spiritually, and so in a sense, there indeed could be one person out of many who will help lead us thusly. so although david says there is no one messiah, and hes not a messiah - i do think he shouldnt discount credit where credit is due. he has awakened many people spiritually. ive just recently come across him and already see this.

he might not be a messiah, but i do agree, even (again) the mayans have foretold that we will have a new "prophet" or guide to help guide us.

i believe david's humility and humbleness are what also help others see that what he is saying is truth, outside of their own personal knowing; too many people who speak of spirituality tend to be credit seekers, and thus their information and message becomes tainted. david is not like this, and hes the only one i have seen so far like this.

[PriestOfLight]

if you believe he existed, then he existed..

love and light

priestoflight

[litllady]

hi lynette,
that is interesting. how does one find out sidereal time and all that?

anyways, as we all are the answers we seek, we must look within for the "messiah" - i believe its the project camelot interview where david says this - however we do need guidance in a awakening to our inner selves spiritually, and so in a sense, there indeed could be one person out of many who will help lead us thusly. so although david says there is no one messiah, and hes not a messiah - i do think he shouldnt discount credit where credit is due. he has awakened many people spiritually. ive just recently come across him and already see this.

he might not be a messiah, but i do agree, even (again) the mayans have foretold that we will have a new "prophet" or guide to help guide us.

i believe david's humility and humbleness are what also help others see that what he is saying is truth, outside of their own personal knowing; too many people who speak of spirituality tend to be credit seekers, and thus their information and message becomes tainted. david is not like this, and hes the only one i have seen so far like this.

i couldnt of said it better myself. i do not believe in a messiah either....but i believe there are humans of a high spiritual embodiment that come here to help bring awareness and light to others. possibly, the former teacahers leave us a sign as to something to look for or pay attention to. i personally believe, the reference to the water bearer is the coming age aquarius, not so much a person. we actually dont enter aquarius for another 300-500 yrs and if you believe in the whole 2012 bit, then that far in the future wouldnt really matter. but, for me, 2012 doesnt resonate with me, mabey its a personal thing, but i feel i will still be here, on this very earth, with all the same people i know now.

ya know when you see birds flying south for the winter....and the leader of their formation takes the lead in the flight because he is the strongest bird, and his place up front makes it a easier flight for the birds behind the leader. this is how i look at teachers or bringers of light....they can take the lead to make the pathway easier for the others, they can take the brunt of the blow because they have the strength to do so. this is how i see someone like david....the lead bird making it a bit easier on the others.

but it is a neat little tid bit that he is an aquarius, for me anyways. you can look up the sidereal zodiac through google. all astrology sites mislead people as to where the sun rises. for example, any astrology site most likely will tell you the sun on the spring equinox tomorrow will rise in aries....this is wrong....it rises in pisces....because over time the movement of the stars change 1 degree every 72 yrs. the tropical zodiac does not take into account that this movement happens. about the time of the man jesus was when the sun began to rise in pisces. we saw uproar amongst the people of new teachings and their new age. even back with moses, the golden calf that the people made, to me shows again, a change of age, and the people struggled with this change. i believe most of the bible is really reflecting a movement of the cosmos....such as, the star that falls and the bright new morning star. i found out a while back that i was really a leo, instead of a virgo, which this lead me to some really wild changes in my life after realizing this, it was like a awakening between me and my higher self.

our sun actually spends time in 13 signs, not 12. from november 29 to dec 17 is rises in ophiuchus, the healer, the serpent handler. in ancient times, this sign was a bird of some sort, most people say a hawk or phoenix. egypt recognized it as so did a few other cultures.

and the whelp out of the lion, i believe is to do with leo somehow. the virgin birth, i believe relates to the virgo. the one who is bruised by the heal, i think is the scorpion stinging ophiuchus foot that dips down into the zodiac, just enough to be a part of it.

but these are just thoughts, nothing of certainty....i do enjoy seeking the mysteries of all stories and beliefs.

i also dont think jesus claimed himself as messiah. the orthodox did this, to tie jesus to the jewish book.

its all speculation...but when you brought up water bearer, i thought i would add a interesting thought to that.

peace to all
lynette

[aqcheryl]

i couldnt of said it better myself. i do not believe in a messiah either....but i believe there are humans of a high spiritual embodiment that come here to help bring awareness and light to others.

i believe david is this :)


possibly, the former teacahers leave us a sign as to something to look for or pay attention to.

i couldnt agree more - sometimes we need the history to believe what someone is saying to us; and sometimes that someone would not have awakened without seeing the history either.


i personally believe, the reference to the water bearer is the coming age aquarius, not so much a person. we actually dont enter aquarius for another 300-500 yrs and if you believe in the whole 2012 bit, then that far in the future wouldnt really matter.

the only thing i disagree with is the timespan. one reason is there are several different conflicting reports of when we will officially enter into this age - but the second reason - and the main one for me, is that it doesnt happen overnight. we wouldnt be in the age of pisces on september 22, 2359 and then september 23, 2359 we are suddenly in aquarius. no, instead, we have a cushioning period that helps with the transition into full aquarius, and what may seem like several hundreds of years in our lifetime is the blink of an eye to the heavens. so i do feel we have already begun to move into it.


but, for me, 2012 doesnt resonate with me, mabey its a personal thing, but i feel i will still be here, on this very earth, with all the same people i know now.

when i started researching 2012, it was truth for me as far as the prophecy of spiritual awakening. the doomsday theory didnt sit well at all as far as truth. but i agree with you, we will still be on earth, living our lives. i get lost on the quantum physics lol but i think its possible that as its a spiritual plane, we will move into the 4th dimension, and we will see a new earth, but as everything is an illusion on the physical plane, controlled by the energy we put out, i suspect that when we ascend spiritually to 4th, our new understanding will help us control the energies on the physical plane. this is why those who are awakened will know immediately, and those who are not will take time to understand and compute whats happening to them. im having trouble articulating this.


but it is a neat little tid bit that he is an aquarius, for me anyways.

it is for me as well, awhile back i had read he was pisces and i remember now that at the time i "didnt like that" - meaning it didnt sound right, not a statement on the sign itself. just it didnt match. this made sense to me when i read this.


i believe most of the bible is really reflecting a movement of the cosmos....

i completely agree - it seems rather a history book with prophecy in it than anything else its been misconstrued as.


i did look up sidereal but two calculators i found came up saying "nan" or such after i inputed my information. i do know however in my research on aquarius, i found alot of sites that were.. uninformed, to say the least lol
but i did find a series called [please pm for book title] and when i read it it opened up doors for me - because its practically to the t.

[lala]

does he exist in your actions, feelings and thoughts?

if not... he did not
if yes... he did

...
:rolleyes:

[Purple Dragon]

hi lynette,
that is interesting. how does one find out sidereal time and all that?

i believe i got this link to local apparent sideral time (http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/sidereal.html) from one of david's blog. it will give you your lst if you give it your longitude in degrees, minutes, seconds. 13:30 is peak esp time but i believe he said a there is a 2 hour window.

as for jesus existing, i defiantly think there was an entity that tried to help spread the word of the creator. its quite amazing how many documentaires you can watch that will say there was a jesus, there wasn't, there was but he was named something else (ie different religion). i think everyone needs to believe in something, and jesus tried to teach that the something is yourself and that is what really matters. will jesus re-appear in the next few years to guide us to salvation? maybe he and many other entities are already helping us on our path to awareness already.

i believe that jesus existed, and it all depends on your view point on what kind of a leader you think he is.

[Deerclan]

i recently came across a book that talks about new archaeological evidence that the physical jesus actually did exist. the book was written by a professor of bible at the university of north carolina. he has also gone on his own archaeological digs.

i'm not far enough into the book yet to be able to sit on a jury, but a surprising amount of physical evidence seems to exist.

just my .02 cents for a bright and partly cloudy saturday morning. :)

deerclan

[denisfor]

it is interesting to ask ourselves if jesus did exist but if you cant travel in time, this question is worthless and you will have to rely upon others testimonials and old books no one have access like vatican library.

if you really are interested in this subject, you can establish a link using the dream state and you can see him and hear him talk to you because he know you for having lived so many incarnations in one christian church or the other for the last 2000 years.

my wife is a very gifted psychic and was very much attached to jesus so she was able to recall a couple of dreams with jesus and ask important questions

and you know what, he is the one who ask her to transfer with another spiritual master because she was ready, she was already well established on the 4th density

it was almost 40 years ago and since, she had to transfer a couple more time because her level of consciousness was rising to the 5th and the 6th density

the 4th is basically astral plane, the 5th is mental plane conscious and unconscious and the 6th is soul plane above matter and space and time and above duality, positive and negative. you dont wear a body there, you are just a ball of energy with eyes and consciousness

so try too meet him in the dream state instead of searching for him in old books.

denisfor

[aqcheryl]

i also agree that he existed. it doesnt matter what label hes given, the point is his message, the real one - not him himself.

[Alexander]

to those who believe christ jesus is real(i am one and respect him highly), what is the kingdom?

jesus spoke of the kingdom being not here or there, but inside of us. those of us who obtain spiritual awakening anyway...

how about the densities? 4th, 5th, 6th and so on... how do they tie in? how does christ relate?

i am trying to rationalize the existence of "god", christian theology, and some of the teachings presented here.

i'm not interested in debate, nor doctrine or dogma. just truth.

please share your understanding.

[lala]

hi alexander,
i must admit that i have had to spend some time (the last 2 years) trying to put the old and the new toguether... and i came with a very subversive view of what the personage called jesus would say to his personage followers (in relation to the followers of the message - feelings thoughts and actions)
and the answer took "form" in this song that i found 3 days ago(link below)
just wandering about my understanding;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cmnrvl1dra

[Sarahmay]

in the words of the immortal patti smith:

"jesus died for somebody's sin, but not mine."

[samncheese]

yes the jesus thing happened. now it is surrounded by the mist of history and fables of late night stories passed down for millenia. the jesus story was played out because it was understood that many many people would grasp the good message embeded in it and use it for good.

it was understood that many groups would use it to control others, but don't be fooled it has done more good than evil over time. many of our brothers and sisters from other planets and plans of existance are looking for ways to influence us for good without disturbing the status of who we are. jesus was one of these influences from outside to make the whole of humanity stop and say " what? ".

he gave us a tool to say to each other what is spirit? and salvation? in time he knew we would see him differently, just like a child sees his parents differently when he grows up. jesus's true voice is one of peace and truth, but those groups who would control and enslave the world have twisted as much of his voice as they thought they could get away with.

so like children of divorced parents we must each of us listen with our spirits to the message and dicide for ourselves what is right and wrong. in the end isn't that what it is really all about, learning to choose right from wrong?

[aqcheryl]

[quote=alexander;46918]to those who believe christ jesus is real(i am one and respect him highly), what is the kingdom?

jesus spoke of the kingdom being not here or there, but inside of us. those of us who obtain spiritual awakening anyway...

how about the densities? 4th, 5th, 6th and so on... how do they tie in? how does christ relate?

[quote]

i dont feel anyone can truly answer this question with 100% certainty, from the limitation of 3d knowledge.
so i can only answer in the form of an opinion formulated from the 'facts' as we know them, and that includes search within for answers.

the film stigmata really had an impact on me, because they quoted the phrase (paraphrasing here):
the kingdom of god is within you, and all around you.

this was found in one of the dead sea scrolls, which are purported to include teachings from christ. this really opened my eyes to questioning because i knew it was truth. i felt it with every fiber of my being.

the kingdom, is "god consciousness". as we are all from the creator and thus are the creator, the kingdom is within. this means that to connect with spirit (spirit is really a term i use to describe the "life force" for all densities... and when you connect its almost like you are connecting to a 'spiritual chatroom', and when you receive answers it comes from spiritual guides, usually of higher density - but sometimes you can get answers from knowledgeable 3rd density who also can connect), you have to look within, and not at outside sources to tell you what is truth.

there is also a phrase i have heard that we are walking in heaven and hell right now. this is true because we are living in the kingdom already, we can access it, and its just that if we choose to be negative, we create our own hell by attracting it, vs if we are positive we create our heaven. no, its not easy, because when we come here we forget.

so... now about jesus. he relates to the higher densities because it is my belief he is one. he came here as an ascended being to guide us. our creator does look out for us, as well as the lower densities. the creator is i believe david said 8th(?) density. perhaps jesus was this, or 7th... sent directly from the higher source, and that is perhaps why he retained the knowledge and wisdom as we usually forget.

this is all imho of course. :)

[Deambor]

hi, everyone.
as i recall, somwhere in ra materials they said they the entity we call jesus was in an advanced levels of 4d and was ready to graduate to 5d. instead he chose to regress to 3d to fulfill his mission.
as i had said before, it is my understanding that his mission was do a 'reset" of the system if you will, where by the masses can go now into realms of light, instead of darkness, where before it was not an option available for an average folks.

love and light

[gnostic33]

i am not trying to preach to you or anyone else. i just felt i needed to clear up the fact that paul was a true deciple of jesus.
peace to you,
pamelak[/quote]

i think what the misunderstanding is... that paul didn't actually walk with jesus when he was teaching before the crucifxtion(sp?). i think this is why people say he wasn't one of the disciples. from my understanding seems he may have misinterpreted what jesus really wanted. from my understanding jesus wasn't trying to start a religion he was just trying to teach us to become better people and become whole to treat each other better, love one another and ourselves. i have done alot of research on all of this myself. one of the books i read gave me some very interesting insight. it is called [please pm lisa for the book title and name]. while the information goes against a lot of information about jesus it rings true to me, but thats just me it might not be for everyone. peace to you all
lisa

[gnostic33]

i am not trying to preach to you or anyone else. i just felt i needed to clear up the fact that paul was a true deciple of jesus.
peace to you,
pamelak

i think what the misunderstanding is... that paul didn't actually walk with jesus when he was teaching before the crucifxtion(sp?). i think this is why people say he wasn't one of the disciples. from my understanding seems he may have misinterpreted what jesus really wanted. from my understanding jesus wasn't trying to start a religion he was just trying to teach us to become better people and become whole to treat each other better, love one another and ourselves. i have done alot of research on all of this myself. one of the books i read gave me some very interesting insight. it is called [please pm lisa for the book title and name]. while the information goes against a lot of information about jesus it rings true to me, but thats just me it might not be for everyone. peace to you all
lisa[/quote]
************************************************** ********

i am going to elaborate a little more about my interpretation/understanding about jesus in a new thread called "is jesus a being of light?" i expereinced many synchronicities the week of xmas 2002 and then i awoke to a being of light standing in my room xmas night (dec 26 at about 3:30 in the morning). try to get it on the forum soon. the figure below is what i saw in my room.

[Purple Dragon]

i am going to elaborate a little more about my interpretation/understanding about jesus in a new thread called "is jesus a being of light?"

as was said by deambor, ra has stated that jesus was indeed a 4th density entity ready to goto the 5th, but instead went back to the 3rd to help bring light & guidance to the peoples of earth. a quote i found from ra that may be of value as well:


ra: i am ra. this entity learned the ability by a natural kind of remembering at a very young age. unfortunately, this entity first discovered his ability to penetrate intelligent infinity by becoming the distortion you call “angry” at a playmate. this entity was touched by the entity known as jesus and was fatally wounded.

thus the one known as jesus became aware that there dwelt in him a terrible potential. this entity determined to discover how to use this energy for the good, not for the negative. this entity was extremely positively polarized and remembered more than most wanderers do.

jesus got a catalyst early in life to help him choose his path so that he would be able to benefit more people. there is another quote as well that tells how jesus chose to be a martyr knowing it would be a difficult path to take, but figured it would enlighten the most amount of entities.

[gnostic33]

i feel a little confused about the ra material regarding jesus. i see some people saying the ra material says he is here as the above post shows but also i have had pm with others that say the material says he is no longer here.
are there conflicting acccounts in the ra material or is it due to different channels or different times? meaning maybe he left and then decided to come back. i am very interested in hearing this as it is a subject close to my heart. peace to you all
i really am enjoying the exchanges here:)
lisa
ps i have searched the archives and read some material myself but wasn't sure if maybe i might be missing something

[Alexander]

whether christ will return as we understand it, we'll see. it's quite possible he never left.

there is also a father god. he is not the universal creator, but is a part thereof, as we are.

[gnostic33]

whether christ will return as we understand it, we'll see. it's quite possible he never left.

there is also a father god. he is not the universal creator, but is a part thereof, as we are.


i understand completely what you are saying here:)

i gues i am asking what david's most current information is on jesus wherebouts and happenings now today as we speak? i feel like i am getting conflicting information and don't want to offend anyone anymore if i happen to be on a different page than what david's information is stating. seems i have already made a few mistakes with my posts:( from what i understand there are a number of ra sources could someone point me in the direction of david's most current channelings regard jesus???
peace to you all
lisa:d

[Purple Dragon]

i feel a little confused about the ra material regarding jesus. i see some people saying the ra material says he is here as the above post shows but also i have had pm with others that say the material says he is no longer here.
are there conflicting acccounts in the ra material or is it due to different channels or different times? meaning maybe he left and then decided to come back. i am very interested in hearing this as it is a subject close to my heart.

from what i have read (which is david's enhanced, stream-lined version) is jesus was a 4th density wanderer that was ready to move into the 5th density. he decided there was more work to be done, and so decided to come back to earth in the 3rd density to be a martyr to try and awaken more souls to the truth in love. once he completed his mission, he then moved into the 5th density.

it gets confusing because one could say he is still here with us, only in a higher density. all densities (1st - 7th) are all a part of the octave we are currently in, once we reach the 8th density we then enter a new octave at the 1st density (which i think means new dimension?, haven't read a lot on the 8th density).

further, once we reach the 4th density our perception of time changes from space/time to time/space (or vica versa, which is which gets confusing to me still), meaning time ceases to be linear, so we may be present in all 3rd density times at once.

i think that made sense anyway :)

[aqcheryl]

i understand completely what you are saying here:)

i gues i am asking what david's most current information is on jesus wherebouts and happenings now today as we speak? i feel like i am getting conflicting information and don't want to offend anyone anymore if i happen to be on a different page than what david's information is stating. seems i have already made a few mistakes with my posts:( from what i understand there are a number of ra sources could someone point me in the direction of david's most current channelings regard jesus???
peace to you all
lisa:d

could it be possible that hes here but not here at the same time? for example... he was here the first time and then he 'left' (ascended) but hes still accessible to us 3d'ers in spirit, so in essence hes here now?

like when our family members pass on, they never truly leave us kind of thing... ?

[Schaqq69]

i have heard from my growing up in a christian family the stories. then when i could read i started to figure things out for myself.

concerning ra. there is a belief that the creator has 3 faces. it is called the 3 faces of the gods head. one is the father, then there is the son and the third the holy ghost.

studying religion i have no attraction to it. there are so many opinions i find it easier to believe in me on my own.

christianity, jewish and islam absorbed what they considered pagan beliefs and spun them into their religions benifit.

just throwing a thought out there from what i have learned. i have faith and i know becasue my faith is strong i have no need for religion.

[mmariebored]

who knows? there's no real proof. it doesn't matter.

there are plenty of other things to ponder about, plenty of new fairy tails written every day. maybe one day we'll be considered fairy tales.

[noppy]

jesus excisted but not the way religion tells us. you've gota understand that there where already church's based on christianity before jesus even excisted and there was a lots of editing before the bible came out ( the gen-isis story is edited alot). jesus never was a caucasian to begin with. the white gut we see in pictures and painthing is not the real jesus we read in the bible. the bible story's is nothing but writen story's of the egyptian murals and put the 12 diciples infront of jesus and they will say 'who is that ?' nobody saw jesus but only heard the storys spread trough the years

your a 3 fold being some call it; father, son, holy spirit other consciousness, subconsciousness, superconsciousness. here, there, space between. mind, body ,soul

jesus is one cool guy :cool: an high evolved being

i'm not religius nothing but crap they tell but better stay open cause there are hidden truths in it. i better do my research. like jordan maxwell and neale donald walsch say

[RayneboWolf]

jesus is the greek version of the hebrew name yesu.jesus is a name still commonly used in greece and other places for males.the common images we see of him depict him with a greek likeness as they are based on greek renaiscance art.
however it is my view that he did exist in some shape or form and was more than very likely a follower of isis.
the following extract taken from the "resurrect isis" website .
qoute:"the resurrection of jesus is clearly based on egyptian religion and the resurrection of assur (osiris). jesus had no connection to judaism other than shared opposition to roman military occupation of egypt/syria/palestine/judea. his teachings of love are clearly derived from the teachings of isis, the goddess of love, not from jehovah, the jealous and wrathful god"unqoute,.
see link to site here :http://www.resurrectisis.org/

love in isis`s name tim ~x)o(x~

it`s very interesting that you posted this ,as i am currently researching isis:d.


jesus excisted but not the way religion tells us. you've gota understand that there where already church's based on christianity before jesus even excisted and there was a lots of editing before the bible came out ( the gen-isis story is edited alot). jesus never was a caucasian to begin with. the white gut we see in pictures and painthing is not the real jesus we read in the bible. the bible story's is nothing but writen story's of the egyptian murals and put the 12 diciples infront of jesus and they will say 'who is that ?' nobody saw jesus but only heard the storys spread trough the years

your a 3 fold being some call it; father, son, holy spirit other consciousness, subconsciousness, superconsciousness. here, there, space between. mind, body ,soul

jesus is one cool guy :cool: an high evolved being

i'm not religius nothing but crap they tell but better stay open cause there are hidden truths in it. i better do my research. like jordan maxwell and neale donald walsch say

[evolving]

i can't believe that i am writing the #58 post on this subject, and people still are unsure? first off, i am not a member of any religion, nor do i subscribe to the dogma of any church. i ceased going to church when i was given the choice at 13 years of age and believed i was atheist for a good deal of my life because of religion. only upon reading the loo did i awaken to the true understanding of my purpose here and of my true spiritual nature.

yes, jesus of nazareth, the christ, was a real man. i have walked in his footsteps, literally, and his power, the power of love of the one creator, is still there to this day. are accounts of this man's life accurate. in a storybook kind of way, yes.

the spirit known to us as jesus of nazareth was of the higher levels of vibration in the 4th density. prior to being capable of ascending to the 5th density, this spirit desired to remove distortions that remained from its 3rd density work, thus chose to wander to 3rd density earth to gain the desired experience. the incarnate experience was contracted, though this spirit awakened unusually young and came to penetrate the veil at an early age, gaining access to 4th density powers while in the 3rd density. jesus used these powers to heal people and to bring the message of love of the one creator, and of the one creator's "kingdom" to the masses.

of course, religious leaders were distraught over what they considered blasphemy to god, the fact they were being challenged for what they perceived as their power, and were upset that the teachings of jesus did not align with their teachings. they thus forced the roman's hand (pilate) into flailing and crucifying jesus. pilate did this for several reasons, most noticeably to save his own skin.

upon the cessation of the incarnate experience, this spirit ascended to the 5th density where it currently studies. this spirit is not, nor will walk as a mind/body/spirit complex upon the earth again in the 3rd density. there will be no 'second coming".

was jesus god's son? yes, but then again, we all are god's sons and daughters. jesus simply understood it, having penetrated the veil.

what were jesus teachings? they are known as gnostic. they were about love and of the eternal life in the kingdom of the father, the one creator, who most now know by the german term "god". these teachings were hidden and removed from the christian religion because they did not align with the teachings of "the church", which sought to control and gain power.

was jesus caucasian? only in hollywood.

discrepancies over the true name of the mind/body/spirit complex known now as jesus:
yeshu
yeshua
yehoshua

as noppy posted, christianity was around for many years prior to the incarnation of jesus of nazareth, and christians had tried, unsuccessfully many times, to have someone become their christ. jesus fit the requirements. the story of "the christ" was always the same, based on astrology.
- born three days after the winter solstice to a virgin mother. considering joseph and mary were married, this doesn't sound very realistic...
- visited by the "three kings"
- dies and born again
- etc etc etc

[LightEye]

dear friends,

yes he did. here's several accounts of his likeness.

http://www.thenazareneway.com/likeness_of_our_saviour.htm

be well, be love.

david

physical descriptions of jesus
the oldest views and literary data on the external appearance of jesus the nazarene

"there is no description of jesus in the new testament or in any contemporary source. yet, in hundreds of icons, paintings, and even coins, there is a common quality that enables us to identify jesus in works of art. starting in the sixth century, artistic depictions of jesus seem inspired or even copied from a single source. "

the description of publius lentullus

the following was taken from a manuscript in the possession of lord kelly, and in his library, and was copied from an original letter of publius lentullus at rome. it being the usual custom of roman governors to advertise the senate and people of such material things as happened in their provinces in the days of tiberius caesar, publius lentullus, president of judea, wrote the following epistle to the senate concerning the nazarene called jesus.

"there appeared in these our days a man, of the jewish nation, of great virtue, named yeshua [jesus], who is yet living among us, and of the gentiles is accepted for a prophet of truth, but his own disciples call him the son of god- he raiseth the dead and cureth all manner of diseases. a man of stature somewhat tall, and comely, with very reverent countenance, such as the beholders may both love and fear, his hair of (the colour of) the chestnut, full ripe, plain to his ears, whence downwards it is more orient and curling and wavering about his shoulders. in the midst of his head is a seam or partition in his hair, after the manner of the nazarenes. his forehead plain and very delicate; his face without spot or wrinkle, beautified with a lovely red; his nose and mouth so formed as nothing can be reprehended; his beard thickish, in colour like his hair, not very long, but forked; his look innocent and mature; his eyes grey, clear, and quick- in reproving hypocrisy he is terrible; in admonishing, courteous and fair spoken; pleasant in conversation, mixed with gravity. it cannot be remembered that any have seen him laugh, but many have seen him weep. in proportion of body, most excellent; his hands and arms delicate to behold. in speaking, very temperate, modest, and wise. a man, for his singular beauty, surpassing the children of men"

[Enkidu]

does the importance truly lie with whether or not he existed physically?

shouldn't it be whether or not the message is beneficial?

now, to be a little less abstract and philosophical, my personal idea on the topic:
i have also heard very convincing arguments against the actual being "jesus" existing, though, as i imagine many know, even if he did exist his name certainly was not "jesus". "yeshua/joshua" predates jesus by a great deal of time.

semantics aside, the loo clearly stated that "jesus" was an entity from a higher vibration who came to this planet in order to spread his message, while being able to limit the effect of the veil. i always considered him to be more of a concept than an actual historical entity. 95% of the loo resonates with me but that particular portion has always felt a bit iffy. though, all things considered, according to the law of confusion if jesus was not real, i doubt they could have said "no fool, there aint no jesus".

then again, they could have denied an answer like they did on many other topics, simply by invoking the law of confusion if that was the case. i can feel the short circuit starting in my head and i am a firm student in the model of though that "the third dimension is not one of understanding" so i will look at it from a different angle.

i think, from my own standpoint, the best path to take on that concept is the one of least resistance. i leave room for both possibilities in my consciousness, and either would be accepted if it was irrevocably proven to me. my gut says he was a conceptual medium through which a message could be delivered though.

[Raveninns]

my five year old heart wants to believe that jesus existed, but my fifty two year old brain processor can not find one single categorical, unmitigated verified shred of evidence that he was real, not one.

every time i come up with something that might possibly prove his existence, my five year old heart gets shattered again, invariably, i find that "evidence" is merely forged documents designed to back up a fairly fantastical tale........

one would think that such an entity would have ancilliary evidence in the form of letters from roman officials who were notorious for reporting to rome, objects, something that would back up officious claims as written in the bible, but there are none that have satsfied scholars.

but, despite the lack of plausible evidence, i am more than willing to entertain that enlightened beings have roamed the mother.

in fact, i am sure of this. not because people have told me this, or history records such, but because of my own experiences with people who only wish to spread *love* with whomever they come in contact. this is real, and something i can believe in, so, i can surmise that there have also been such individuals in the past.

lol, my own teacher looks at me with pity whenever this subject comes up, and i cannot help but wonder if jesus must be experienced subjectively. i have often wondered this. i have also searched my soul to ascertain why i cannot get past this, but i have just come to understand that i need evidence, and that is my nature.....

i also often wonder if he was real, what does he think of his religion now? holy smokes. i'd like to have a chat with him about that one day. i understand all is as it should be, but never has there been such a polarising issue as the new testament and the divisions it has caused.

my five year old heart really does want to believe.....

cheers, raven

[evolving]

one of the most difficult things of this density is freeing oneself of the ape mind and learning to fly with the angels wings.

just as the child has a difficult time in initially understanding that he/she will be safe if he/she jumps off something into the arms of the waiting parent, so we must remove our doubt and have faith, simply believing.

only when doubt is removed will one come to the understanding that our parents are not of this earth, but of the stars, and we can never fall and harm ourselves.

each of us chooses their reality, for this is the first distortion. believing in jesus is difficult, just as believing in ufos, in aliens, in atlantis, in life after death. if one has never seen someone from china, would it mean that the people of china do not exist? this all comes down to free will. only when one opens their heart to the possibility of the existence of these things does the possibility exist for these things to be real to the person.

two years ago i walked among people of china that had never seen a caucasian person their entire lives. they very often simply stopped in their tracks and stared at me, mouth agape. the had always heard of caucasians, and seen them on tv, but to actually see one! their reality was changed forever. did they believe that caucasians existed before they saw me? perhaps, but without conclusive proof, i was only a thought in their reality, a possibility.

[Enkidu]

whether or not he did exist physically, there is no doubt that "jesus" exists now. the human mind, especially a powerful unification of minds, is capable of creating anything. with all of the love/light light/love directed towards this "entity" over time, whether or not he actually "existed" in the first place, something certainly exists now.

he/she may simply be the total manifestation of all the love/hope/ideology of the billions who have sent their thoughtforms "his" way over the centuries. a man made deity who possesses all the aspects we wish that we ourselves possessed, a perfect model for the perfect human.

the christ consciousness that every single man woman and child has the chance to be, culminated into a shiny model figure for said consciousness.

[Foghorn]

raven:

the letter from pontius pilate to tiberius caesar


this is a reprinting of a letter from pontius pilate to tiberius caesar describing the physical appearance of jesus. copies are in the congressional library in washington, d.c.

http://www.thenazareneway.com/likeness_of_our_saviour.htm

[Raveninns]

i am grateful that posters to this thread have made the point that whether he existed or not, it is the christ conscienceness that is the real deal, and this is something that i can believe.


he/she may simply be the total manifestation of all the love/hope/ideology of the billions who have sent their thoughtforms "his" way over the centuries. a man made deity who possesses all the aspects we wish that we ourselves possessed, a perfect model for the perfect human.

i have come across a theory of tulpas which mirrors this thought exactly, namely, thoughts are things, and can be made manifest if believed thoroughly.


believing in jesus is difficult, just as believing in ufos, in aliens, in atlantis, in life after death.

actually, i believe in all of those things due to various personal experiences, research,etc.

not to be difficult, but i'm sure it will appear so; the letters of pilate have been dismissed by many scholars for many reasons.

from: http://www.fact-index.com/p/po/pontius_pilate.html


minor pilate literature
there is a forged letter reporting on the crucifixion, purporting to have been sent by pontius pilate to the emperor claudius embodied in the pseudepigraphic forgery known as the acts of peter and paul, of which the catholic encyclopedia states, "this composition is clearly apocryphal though unexpectedly brief and restrained." there is no internal relation between this feigned letter and the 4th century acts of pilate (acta pilati).
this epistle or report of pilate is also inserted into the pseudo-marcellus passion of peter and paul. we thus have it in both greek and latin versions.

more of pilate's fictional correspondence is found in the minor pilate apocrypha, the anaphora pilati ('relation of pilate,'), an 'epistle of herod to pilate; and an 'epistle of pilate to herod,' spurious texts that are no older than the fifth century.

another very well researched treatise can be found at

http://www.ftarchives.net/foote/crimes/c4.htm

which gives lists of well known fraudulent writings......

does any of it really matter anyway? my lack of belief does not change why i visit here, or why anyone else does. we're all just trying to figure out where we're going! nice to exchange ideas too.

cheers, raven

[Rhonda]

if you believe in david wilcock and edgar cayce, you will see (below) that they have been here on earth, together, many times working to turn on the christ light in all. let there be light, for you are the light of the world ! where light exist, dark can not survive

edgar cayce, as uhjtd was once the father of the soul we know as jesus, at that time jesus was zend.... working on his own self to become the christ with the help of many.

so if jesus did not exist, the work now is invoid.

from a earlier post on jesus christ edited:
hi nina and all, your post prompted me to share more on another recarniation of edgar cayce that i had read from the book the persian legacy, which talks about uhjltd after ra-ta, plus much more.....including jesus ... quite a few connections:

* uhjltd, began 8k bc
* ra-ta built (edgar cayce in past life) (10.390 bc), time of atlantis, next to ancient egypt when ra-ta, the healer walked
* moses work was important, he reminded us to listen and follow our own hearts (13k - 15k bc)
* jesus 1 bc - 30 ad

from: the persian legacy book by hugh cayce and edgar cayce readings :

* uhjltd (pron "yoo-it"), next incarnation of edgar cayce (approx 8,000 bc) per xvii cont' (healer, teacher, spirtual leader)
* zend, son of uhjltd, the same soul who eventually incarnated as jesus.... (see below)
* zoroaster 660 bc, son of zend, person most respons for making certain that these tenets (zoroastrianism) survived pg 105
* jesus 'i am the way, the truth and the life'
* edgar cayce 1900 ad


per hugh l cayce, appex in the persian legacy, a fictional account of
persian history intended to serve as the basis of a movie script about ancient perisa. (same book)

prep and dist. august 1935 by are inc, virginia beach, virgina per the persian legacy and edgar cayce material.

two powerful desert tribes gathered to celebrate the marriage of kaila, prince of zu and slumdki, princess of ra they are the parents of uhjltd

pg 120, a priest of egypt had been called to perform this sacred rite. from a foreign tongue, who's volume grew: hear ye! children of the plains! though the seed of this man and women many people shall be blessed. their first-born will be a son whose name shall be called uhjltd. he will reign over you and guide you. follow him and you become a great people. when uhjltd was 21, is he was sent for training for 7 years to this priest. for 7 years he studied in the land of the sun (pg 123), the truths which were taught our fathers. searching for knowledge of the laws of the universe.

pg 145, the time come when uhjltd, took a bride. i now unite these two, and proclaim that you shall call this day blessed, for you are to prepare for the coming of a great world teacher. unto this man and women there shall be a son whose name shall be called zend. the great one has heard your pleas. this work will go on, and people will be wiser and nearer their ultimate goal because of the work which you have done. the way has been opened. may his blessings rest upon you all.

pg 113, zoroastrianism. the persians were gifted in their understanding of the study of the heavens and the celestial bodies. the understanding promptee at least 3 zoroastrian wise men to mark a journey into bethlehem to see for themselves the birth of the one foretold by the stars. (reading 1908-1)

1297-1 24. the entity then was among those of the jewish race, yet had
withdrawn as it were from those teachings of tradition - or the mere service in the temple - and had joined rather with those who had become of the understanding as handed down by the old persian teacher, zoroaster (above, kept the teaching alive)

1158-9
but we are looking as he gave, "i go to prepare a place - if it were not so i would have told you - that where i am there ye may be - i am!"

"who shall i say hast sent me?"

"i am that i am!"

does it not all remain then as a whole?

for without abraham, without moses, yea without david, what need could there be that melchizedek, that enoch, or joseph, or joshua, should again come in the flesh? fulfilling all?

1292-1 e.c.
42. too much might not be said respecting the entity's activities during that particular sojourn. much may be read concerning same; and well, then, that the training of the entity include those admonitions of moses, the leader of the entity then, and of joshua, the companion of the entity


david wilcock (uhjltd, ra-ta, edgar cayce) is here once again to heal through his words, thoughts and actions and to work with others to bring the truth to light for all to see and feel and know. we are all part of this mission.

[RayneboWolf]

it`s ok it`s your understanding and a very personal one by all accounts.i don`t however agree with this mans date of birth.i see that they supplanted the true meaning of yule with a demigod figure.the pagan festival, which i personally enjoy for it`s meaning and celebration is actually about the sun being reborn within the skies after the apparant solar standstill ( sol -stice ,meaning sun still ) from the 21st dec to the 24th dec.that is all it has ever meant.the christians came "charging" along thousands of years later and conveniently used the symbology of the occasion for obvious reasons,again usurping a part of our ancestral heritage.the meaning is always there though, as its about the movement of helios our sun :).on the 25th helios moves again in our heavens but thats only apparant from our perpective and not actually how it is .our ancestors observed with great accuracy the heavenly spheres ,hardly dumb barbarians would you not agree ?


i can't believe that i am writing the #58 post on this subject, and people still are unsure? first off, i am not a member of any religion, nor do i subscribe to the dogma of any church. i ceased going to church when i was given the choice at 13 years of age and believed i was atheist for a good deal of my life because of religion. only upon reading the loo did i awaken to the true understanding of my purpose here and of my true spiritual nature.

yes, jesus of nazareth, the christ, was a real man. i have walked in his footsteps, literally, and his power, the power of love of the one creator, is still there to this day. are accounts of this man's life accurate. in a storybook kind of way, yes.

the spirit known to us as jesus of nazareth was of the higher levels of vibration in the 4th density. prior to being capable of ascending to the 5th density, this spirit desired to remove distortions that remained from its 3rd density work, thus chose to wander to 3rd density earth to gain the desired experience. the incarnate experience was contracted, though this spirit awakened unusually young and came to penetrate the veil at an early age, gaining access to 4th density powers while in the 3rd density. jesus used these powers to heal people and to bring the message of love of the one creator, and of the one creator's "kingdom" to the masses.

of course, religious leaders were distraught over what they considered blasphemy to god, the fact they were being challenged for what they perceived as their power, and were upset that the teachings of jesus did not align with their teachings. they thus forced the roman's hand (pilate) into flailing and crucifying jesus. pilate did this for several reasons, most noticeably to save his own skin.

upon the cessation of the incarnate experience, this spirit ascended to the 5th density where it currently studies. this spirit is not, nor will walk as a mind/body/spirit complex upon the earth again in the 3rd density. there will be no 'second coming".

was jesus god's son? yes, but then again, we all are god's sons and daughters. jesus simply understood it, having penetrated the veil.

what were jesus teachings? they are known as gnostic. they were about love and of the eternal life in the kingdom of the father, the one creator, who most now know by the german term "god". these teachings were hidden and removed from the christian religion because they did not align with the teachings of "the church", which sought to control and gain power.

was jesus caucasian? only in hollywood.

discrepancies over the true name of the mind/body/spirit complex known now as jesus:
yeshu
yeshua
yehoshua

as noppy posted, christianity was around for many years prior to the incarnation of jesus of nazareth, and christians had tried, unsuccessfully many times, to have someone become their christ. jesus fit the requirements. the story of "the christ" was always the same, based on astrology.
- born three days after the winter solstice to a virgin mother. considering joseph and mary were married, this doesn't sound very realistic...
- visited by the "three kings"
- dies and born again
- etc etc etc

[noppy]

jesus is a cool high evolved being.

people of this world often think that he is the only example rather than an example.

ofcourse a lots of things are hidden from us but who search shall find. there is not much of a proof he excisted but if you think about it, what does it care?
if he excisted or not it's about the message that is send to the people. how we recieve it is an other question. it's not who god chose to send but who listen. and of course we need to change our defenition about god because we got it all wrong.

[greenbarry]

is jesus real? yes.

[angelwire]

there are many spirits in our wide world. some are aware of the christ and some are not. to some; jesus is real and tangible, to some he is invisible. regardless of who one thinks christ is, he is at least a grand ambassador for universal justice and love.

[RayneboWolf]

me thinks noppy i like you :).lets move on from being distracted by past maybe`s ,there are plently of ancient prophets that we know existed,so lets just count him amongst them ,wether fictional or not it is the original gnostic message that we have to look too, for that mans "supposed" teachings :)



jesus is a cool high evolved being.

people of this world often think that he is the only example rather than an example.

ofcourse a lots of things are hidden from us but who search shall find. there is not much of a proof he excisted but if you think about it, what does it care?
if he excisted or not it's about the message that is send to the people. how we recieve it is an other question. it's not who god chose to send but who listen. and of course we need to change our defenition about god because we got it all wrong.

moderator: as a side here, noppy is 17 today. i think noppy is doing pretty great for 17 (maybe noppy could check spelling a little better, smile).

[evolving]

it`s ok it`s your understanding and a very personal one by all accounts.i don`t however agree with this mans date of birth.i see that they supplanted the true meaning of yule with a demigod figure.the pagan festival, which i personally enjoy for it`s meaning and celebration is actually about the sun being reborn within the skies after the apparant solar standstill ( sol -stice ,meaning sun still ) from the 21st dec to the 24th dec.that is all it has ever meant.the christians came "charging" along thousands of years later and conveniently used the symbology of the occasion for obvious reasons,again usurping a part of our ancestral heritage.the meaning is always there though, as its about the movement of helios our sun :).on the 25th helios moves again in our heavens but thats only apparant from our perpective and not actually how it is .our ancestors observed with great accuracy the heavenly spheres ,hardly dumb barbarians would you not agree ?

i don't agree with the date of birth "assigned" either. i know it was an astrological event, and i know that christianity was around long before yeshua of nazareth. this does not negate the fact that this man actually walked the earth.

i'm not going to go into religious rhetoric as to right/wrong heaven/hell and the rest, as there have been enough books written on the subject already.

yes, i also agree, our ancestors were not dumb barbarians... actually they were initially, but they were well informed by our elder brothers ;)

[transiten]

hi

on www.astro.com there's an interesting thread dealing with the probable birthdate of jesus, and there are a lot of suggestions. noone thinks it's the 24:th or 25:th of dec though. the myth about a son being sacrified is much older than the alleged person yeshua/jesus being "the son of god". this doesn't contradict that the person jesus did also wander here on earth.

transiten

[Foghorn]

there are several scholars and websites that claim and support their belief with facts that jesus was born september 11th. do a search for more.

http://www.pointsoftruth.com/articles/jesusbirth.html


also, dr. steven hairfield and many others, including the russian ? (can't remember name) that was the first to account for the 18 missing years of jesus' life throughout countries now known as india, tibet, pakistan, etc.

when i learned about this years ago, i found it quite strange the wtc was attacked on september 11, 2001 as jesus' birthday info was published long before that date. there should be no mystery why that date was chosen, why norad used same date also for training, etc.
who all knew this and when did they know it? when you get the answer to that question, you will know who really was responsible.

another interesting point is around 13-`14 million people had premonitions/dreams prior to 911. google "dreams or premonitions 911" . jean houston was one of them. she was scheduled to speak at the un and canceled her flight due to a strong feeling of malaise.
she wasn't sick...she knew she just couldn't go. did you know the planes were around 80% empty that hit the towers?

another strange thing is she has been speaking/teaching material quite identical to the law of one since the 60's.
there is a collective consciousness in the universe. the law of one wasn't channeled till the 80's.

how else can you explain this?


in 1965, along with her husband dr. robert masters, dr. houston founded the foundation for mind research. she is also the founder and principal teacher since 1982 of the mystery school, a school of human development, a program of cross-cultural, mythic and spiritual studies, dedicated to teaching history, philosophy, the new physics, psychology, anthropology, myth and the many dimensions of human potential. she also leads an intensive program in social artistry with leaders coming from all over the world to study with dr. houston and her distinguished associates.

her background is fascinating...and the people she knew from einestein, helen keller, margret meade, joseph campbell, etc.
http://www.jeanhouston.com/index.html

[Echo]

i have heard so many strong arguments for both sides. i am sure many of you have seen the film "zeitgeist". the beginning of it lays out a decent argument that jesus was only a personification of cycles of the sun. and then i read this:



i don't think a single person here would dispute with me how corrupted the religious institutions became in the history of this planet. so why wouldn't they twist and exploit such a powerful message? why wouldn't some evil genius create a story like this up in order to control the people? evil can be extremely creative when it comes to finding a means to their end.

but then i have read several books in which a person, through hpynotic regression, has remembered a lifetime with jesus. this trance state, as we all know from edgar cayce and the "law or one" books, can be extremely accurate. bypassing the limitations of our 3d consciousness, and accessing the collective/super (or whatever you want to call it) consciousness.

which brings me to another, larger question. could both exist at the same time? could he both have been a myth and a real man at the same time? i mean, what exists in mind exists in reality, right?

could there be infinite parallel "pasts" just like there is infinite possible futures?

i guess we all must trust our gut on this one and my gut tells me that he was a man and his story has been distorted and exploited. but i would love to here what all of your guts are telling you.

salute!
:d
you need to utilize all the information david wilcock tells you (websites, books, videos.). i was looking over the law of one readings on the website www.lawofone.info and i typed in a search of jesus. the information you want to know is all there.

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?search_string=jesus&search_type=any

[Echo]

well the law of one said he existed, he was a 4d wanderer and his name was different its something like jehosua, not jesus.

yes! david told everyone how important the law of one texts were but so far i've seen no one utilize it into this websites forums. i have read it aswell!

love and peace. :rolleyes:

[transiten]

hello echo

what do you mean by "noone utilize it into this website forums"??? do you mean noone here on dc tries to live by the law of one? clarification please..

transiten

[onething]

he means we are not searching through the loo texts to find answers to our questions.

[Cosmicdjinn]

according to george noory, jesus of nazerith did in fact exist and executed as told in the bible. with some differences though. i have always believed the jesus story to be true, but most of my life doubting the story or purpose of the bible.
back in 2004, i was in an amazing car accident. 60 mph. head on with another at 60 mph. needless to say there were casualties. i myself sustained the following: fractured back in 3 places, every rib broken in multiple places, a broken shoulder cuff and arm, a severed mid-section: splitting many organs, both lungs damaged, kidney damage, bladder damage, ...anything i forgot? lol. anyhow, it was a long hard road, and this is when i truely wanted to believe in jesus, god, or anything that could get me through it. and i found myself praying everyday, relatives and friends praying for me, ect.
what i'm getting at here is, i did recover 100% back from the dead. i had actually felt myself die several times. but, when i was dependant or willing to accept that some un-natural or suprer-natural power or force was in fact helping me..i healed very fast, and fought harder.
now weather it was god, or the misunderstanding of god for thousands of years. something drove me back from the dead. the cosmic energy vortex of healing, or god... i don't know.
but, in regards to the original question " did jesus really exist?" according to george noory, he did. but the story of jesus and the bible stories can be seperately introduced from god.

besides that, david has alot of material on enigma that goes to show that christianity is built around the function of obtaining higher self, resonating chapels, and iconics that can clearly be recognized as symbols of power, and elightenment. the bible and the stories be true? i guess who ever has the key to the vault in the vadican knows that answer, or jesus himself.

[onething]

revelations 9:11--

9:11 "and they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the hebrew tongue is abaddon, but in the greek tongue hath his name apollyon."

abaddon means "destruction" and apollyon means "destroyer."

[billybobbutterball]

hi, guys...the jesus question keeps popping up like tappets on a car engine. i would suggest using the search engine to see what others have had to say on the subject.

i don't know if it has been mentioned on this go-around but some swear by the talmud of jmmanual -- which is at the very least an interesting read. it is supposedly the true book of mathew, but scribed by judas iscariot ...who was really a good guy.:eek:

according to the ra material. jesus was a high positive fourth who came with much compassion and a certain lack of wisdom ...which put martyrdom on the agenda. jesus is now studying the ways of wisdom on the fifth. as i understand it, "jesus" is part of a social memory complex that has been involved in many of the great religious movements encompassing earth's past.:cool:

as for the hijacking of the old testament....google scott mandelker.com and read his east/west studies

some students stress that the 'christ' and the man are two items (yeah, all is one,,,but....)
there are many entities that are of a level that can qualify as being able to manifest being "christed" for a time ...one example of this strangeness is featured in my favorite nde which is that of a certain mellen thomas benedict.(google the name)

from later readings of ll research some interesting things came concerning the virgin mary and satan...evidently both are extant as thought forms...this is not exactly true of jesus. but when you have billions of people concentrating and praying like mad over a thousand years on an object(s) something special has got to happen -- its universal law or somethin'.

now please take all the above with a grain of salt, i try hard, but i don't really know nuttin.'

except! with this sts post i finally reached three hundred!..(now i can relax for another year or so until 400 comes within reach.:) )

i would like to close by asking for the highest and best good for all concerned!

luv, etc. bill g aka bbb



yes! david told everyone how important the law of one texts were but so far i've seen no one utilize it into this websites forums. i have read it aswell!

love and peace. :rolleyes:

[transiten]

he means we are not searching through the loo texts to find answers to our questions.


but onething and echo, that is not the case is it?

transiten

[noppy]

the reason jesus came to us is because we called him, we created jesus.

we wanted a change, that would stop the suffering of the planet but we just didn't know how. so we prayed to god that he wil send his son to show us the way and the life. our thought went acros the universe and it was so powerfull that it created our prayer into reality.

but we are all one, a part of you is jesus. just ask yourself about yourself. but be careful of what other sources out side of you is telling you about jesus. no matter how postive their message looks like. they wil distract your beautifull mind from the truth. like the acient egyptians said to their children ' pepa is gona get you !! '

[gnothyself]

hello everyone!

i've spent the last 4 years frequenting orthodox christian discussion boards, and i really need to say to you all, that you have taken the most controversial subject in the history of the planet and set an example for so-called christians that identifies you as the real christs. yeshua said "you will have love among yourselves".

a friend of mine sent me a link to david's project camelot lecture a couple of months ago, and i haven't stopped reading since. glad to be here!

as a side note, the gnostics refer to "jesus" as the master aberamentho, and they say he is currently residing in 4th density tibet. they are in agreement with ra in that he was a fallen bodhisattva and was incarnated many times. however, they say that judas was also a master and the betrayal was staged, as judas hanging himself symbolizes the dissolution of the ego. this would be in agreement with the gospel of judas.

peace and love,
gnothyself

[onething]

asks transiten,

"but onething and echo, that is not the case is it?"

that was my reading of what he said. he thought we could find the answers to some of our questions if we searched the (ra) texts more.

i myself have spent a lot of time trying to unravel the jesus mystery, and have come to the conclusion that i cannot know. the answers are buried in history and there are so many fabrications and fabricators.

the important thing about jesus was his high ideals, and his most important message that what we need to be spiritually alive is the experience of the holy spirit. the holy spirit as he teaches me is an energy catalyst, a divine, all-pervading and uncreated energy of the divinity which can reach us and blow life into our souls so that we become functional and able to intuit spiritual truths for ourselves. this is the great gift, the one he really came to teach us about. the ideals he taught (god is always good, forgives endlessly and so must we, love our enemies) are to be attained not by obedience or even belief or understanding, but by allowing the holy spirit into our souls so that we are uplifted to that level. this is the meaning of being born again, not a mental acceptance of jesus as this or that.

if all is one, and all things are interconnected, then it stands to reason that we can experience this energy and let it uplift us, because this divine energy is always available but we are not always sensitive to it. this is our problem in our "fallen" state. this is why jesus said that the holy spirit would make us free. one does not need a priesthood or morality.

"when the great tao is lost, goodness and piety appear."

when you have the tao, you don't need to be told what is good and what is bad.

also, as one writer said, jesus taught unconditional love because he knew that if the soul can attain to that, then the soul is safe. safe, not in the sense most christians understand it, who think there is a god who must be appeased and pleased by obedience, and that we have one lifetime to get it right. but safe in the sense that this is the lesson which will free us from reincarnation on a planet such as this, with many reincarnations into ignorance and confusion. the soul who knows unconditional love has nothing to fear at death.

[docholiday]

hello

from the; for what it is worth department:

after viewing the [name] films and studying the works of [individuals], i too was caught in a mental conundrum between the strong evidence presented against his existance and a lifetime of inner relationship with our "elder brother." but the fact of the matter is; the evidence for his existence is stronger than the evidence that he never existed. for me, this dilema was solved by changing my perspective from; it must be an either/ or situation - to it may be a both/and - in which the reasons for the case against the existance of jesus is solid and he definately existed to serve a monumental mission for humanity by serving as a templete for those on the service to self path.

as i understand it, the compelling case against his existence is the perpetual muti- cultural mesianic tale which includes: a male born of a virgin birth who displays miraculous powers, articulates great wisdom, dies, is resurected followed by an ascension. this mesiah motif correlates most convincingly with pagan sun worship (relating earth's precession with ziodiacal stellar constellations) as portrayed by the christian bible and other religious texts. my problem with the zietgeist/icke/jordan maxwell perspectives is that they provide only one side of the issue - namely because the perpetual mesianic motif symbolically represents our sun - this must mean that the whole concept of yahoshua ever existing must be false - in other words they throw the baby out with the bath water. i sense that the yahoshua mesianic experience was deliberate in its symbollic parallels with pagan/masan/atlantian knowledge of solar cosmology. perhaps this relates to the fractal/holographic nature of the universe - as one of the prior posts very astutely pointed out.

the christian bible appears to have been brilliantly written/coded with many layes of truth which may be assimilated "for those who have ears to hear" or more clearly - for those who possess the consciousness or intellect to comprehend. hence, one can read the bible for prose or literal translation or one may read it in terms of symbolic metaphor - if she has the ears to hear.

before coming to a descision over this compelling argument - it may helps to look at the facts regarding the existance of jesus

1. the highly crediable source (short) list confirming his existence are: parmahansa yogananda, ra/law of one and edgar cayce.

2. record of the birth of yahoshua coded into the construction of the great pyramid

3. clear record of yahoshua travels to tndia/tibet contained in the documents of saint essa

4. the gnostic gospels discovered in a cave around the 1950's

5. discovered gospels according to mary magdelene, thomas, and judas which portray yahoshua's dialect more in line with eastern religious tradition - where he clearly discusses the importance of karma, reincarnation, meditation and ascension


in conclusion: the belief in the existence of our elder brother, jesus, does not have to run contrary to our knowledge of how religions were created and encoded with esoteric knowledge. this case does not have to be an either/or situation, as greater truth may, in fact, be found in viewing the knowlegle with a both/and perspective.

as cayce stated: jesus's life and mission were meant to create a template for mankind. i believe this statement to mean - a template within the collective unconscious which makes it easier for those who come after to achieve ascension - should they so choose.

i hope this adds is some way to the discussion.

nameste

luke

[evolving]

hello
and he definately existed to serve a monumental mission for humanity by serving as a templete for those on the service to self path.


i would believe you meant the service to other self path, brother?

[transiten]

onething and docholiday!

wonderful, you just summed up what i've come across diving into this mystery! also carla rueckert has a beautiful and simple experience from her connection with the entity called jesus. as for myself i've had some strong synchronicities with the crown of thorn and crucifiction at a time i lost my way ending up in an earthly mental and emontional hell from which i was in a way "crucified" and resurrected. i went astray several times after that and i still have a problem with my shadow telling me i have an evil side and have to be bogged down every now and then as to become humble enough to enter "heaven" 4:th density.

i read somewhere there had been 2 "jesuses" and also that jesus should have killed a friend by accident at a young age, that would have propelled him into his mission. if that was the case it would be a very strong impetous for those who have committed crimes to change their ways and be "reborn" in this lifetime to walk the path of jesus the christ and become a servant of hunmanity.

transiten

[noppy]

i know what we think about jesus it's either this or that, wanderer or not wanderer, white or black, full of wisdom or a lack of wisdom, smart or stupid, was here because he needed to learn or here because he wanted to experience who he was.

but what did jesus thought about himself? i think that is the highest truth about jesus. not of what we think could be true.

there ain't no such thing as past-present-future. if we make an conection to our soul and know how to manipulate dream state . we can travel trough time. and maybe we can talk to jesus : d or somebody els. wouldn't that be awesome. we can see the future and if we don't like what we see. we simpley change what is happening now so that future no longer exist : d and we can travel to the past and say to ourselve ' don't go that way, it was no fun'. than the past me has no longer that experience and i aswell : d : d : d

sorry i just had an idea, continue to talk about jesus existence

[docholiday]

ooops!

yes - thank you for catching that - most definately meant service to others :)

peace
luke

[piermarie]

what i believe is true is that jesus (maybe had another name) was from a group called the essenes, a true spiritual group that lived in secret society.

he was a real person and his soul was a christ being that came into the physical world from a very high light level as him. i believe this christ being had come into the human body either as a male or female many times before jesus, and did come into body many times after jesus. not all of this beings lives are known to be famous.

and this christ being has come amoung us in a body right now on the earth.
because the purpose of the christ being is to help the earth and our solor system move into the 4th ascention that is coming now.

so it only make sense to me that this being would be here to help in the final stages of ascention and helping humanity.

also this being brings the light sound code of the christ energy of divine love from the highest almighty source to this physical world.

the essences had a strick code of ethics of conduct, to be kind, and loving, be pure vegetarians, and a light sound meditation. this transmission has continnued to this day.

this is something we can be grateful for that we have the blessing and help from the almightly through the christ being who is willing to be born on earth to help us along with unlimited of light workers.
this is something the dark forces dont take into consideration as they do their deeds.

so as we are polorized in this world with the most negative of beings doing their work, so we are also blessed with the most light love beings doing their work.

i can say that the earth and all of us are being helped by this same soul that was jesus now in this time on earth.

whatever the stories are about his life at that time may all have be altered in some ways but the main idea that the soul or the spirit of god dwells within you is still a message i see true and is there. and the idea that says if your eye is single your whole body will be filled with light., are references to light sound meditation.

those who wish to know more can meditate to ask for more true information to know the divine and it will guide you the way.

[noppy]

if you think about it. what happens after our death, this life that we have is nothing but a beautifull dream that get's created and change it's meaning everyday.

i don't think jesus soul is walking here anymore. his agenda is done. he is some were els in the universe now experiencing and creating who he/she is. like all of us do. and yes he is walkin on earth right now. he is in everything that exist and we are in everything that exist because we are existence it self.

there is only one of us here.

and what if the soul that was jesus is the same soul that was hitler? they both are great masters showing us an important mesage about what the human consciouness can do to the world.

[retired]

though i do not consider myself to be a religious person in the sense of attending church or adhering to a particular religious faith i do believe the man jesus did exist . i base my believe in that existence on past life recall rather than historical or archelogical evidence . i do , however , have reservations in regards to some of the teachings attributed to jesus by the formal church and perhaps more importantly some of his teachings that were "left out" of the holy bible by the powers that were . :-)

[transiten]

noppy

i don' think a soul as advanced as jesus should reincarnate as hitler; there must be some correspondance from one lifetime to another and i think others on the forum could elaborate more on that.

transiten

[Hugh Jorgan]

i was brought up as a methodist so its hard to think jesus didnt exist. they've literally beat it into my brain so deep that my stomach turns when i see things that discredits christianity. but everyone knows thats why they call it a faith based religion. there are just so many arguments for either side that we have to go with what feels/sounds right to us. he may not have existed as a man but that doesnt matter at this point cause he already has and will touch so many lives. the sun of god shines his light on on us every day and saves us from eternal darkness........oops i mean "son". ;)

[ColtMrFire]

the only problem i have with believing jesus existed is his similarity with the dozens of other savior/god forms in other religions...why were they all born on dec. 25th, performed miracles, dead 3 days, raised up, etc, and whyare they all a near identical match with astrological patterns?...i am not into religion, but i wouldn't mind believing jesus existed if the evidence that he didn't wasn't so overhwhelming.

[12thUranus]

can we prove any of us actually existed yesterday? seriously.

here's a thought.
if our infinite souls enter time/space after space/time-death only to re-enter space/time at a different time/space, then each one of us has a chance to go back in time to incarnate the body/life of jesus (if he existed).

what if incarnating as him (or any other "master") is our final incarnation before moving higher? that's just an idea.

or could it be that the soul incarnating jesus planned on going back to incarnate as abraham? john 8:58 "...jesus answered, 'before abraham was born, i am.' "

faith should be in yourself. "lord your god", "god of our father", "father god", "sons of god". don't all those resemble "your higher self", "your spirit guide", "spirits of our ancestors".

"you are the light of the world"-- that sound familiar?
"let go of all your pleasures. love all". -- that sound familiar?
good vs evil. sts vs sto-- that sound familiar?

[12thUranus]

another similarity
jesus preached a coming harvest.
ra does the same.

we don't know jesus is any more real than we know ra is real.

the truth is each one of us chooses to believe what we want. "take what resonates..."

nothing is certain
time doesn't exist
and i believe , heaven is determined by how many persons you actively love in space/time (spiritual love of course. moral and ethical love is just face)

if so, jesus went way way up :)

[DJDeeZe]

he was a real person and his soul was a christ being that came into the physical world from a very high light level as him. i believe this christ being had come into the human body either as a male or female many times before jesus, and did come into body many times after jesus. not all of this beings lives are known to be famous.

and this christ being has come amoung us in a body right now on the earth.
because the purpose of the christ being is to help the earth and our solor system move into the 4th ascention that is coming now.

so it only make sense to me that this being would be here to help in the final stages of ascention and helping humanity.

also this being brings the light sound code of the christ energy of divine love from the highest almighty source to this physical world.

the essences had a strick code of ethics of conduct, to be kind, and loving, be pure vegetarians, and a light sound meditation. this transmission has continnued to this day.

this is something we can be grateful for that we have the blessing and help from the almightly through the christ being who is willing to be born on earth to help us along with unlimited of light workers.
this is something the dark forces dont take into consideration as they do their deeds.

so as we are polorized in this world with the most negative of beings doing their work, so we are also blessed with the most light love beings doing their work.

i can say that the earth and all of us are being helped by this same soul that was jesus now in this time on earth.

whatever the stories are about his life at that time may all have be altered in some ways but the main idea that the soul or the spirit of god dwells within you is still a message i see true and is there. and the idea that says if your eye is single your whole body will be filled with light., are references to light sound meditation.

those who wish to know more can meditate to ask for more true information to know the divine and it will guide you the way.[/quote]



i would agree with all of the above.

peace,
(:-deeze
:d

[Babyblue]

interesting question.
my thoughts are that jesus did exist, but was an alien...star brother. he appeared to me in a vision once so i think he exists. and as to the sun connection, i think lives are like dreams and have symbolic meanings, we can all live symbolic lives and actual lives. layers of meaning, so perhaps there is an astrological story being told, but through the life of someone who actually lived. did shakespear not say we are all but players here, making our exits and entrances....or something like that.
i do also believe that if people all believe in a certain entity/saint/spirit/angel/helper they can bring it in to being, in chaos magic they have a word for that but i dont remember it!! :-))
love babyblue xxx

[_X_]

jesus christ is a myth. like santa claus or robin hood.

yeshua bin yusef of nazareth, however, was a real person. if you care, take a trip to palestine, and the people there will be happy to tell you of stories handed down from generations ago of the man stopping by such and such village, or visiting so and so's family.

yeshua bin yusef and his parents belonged to the essenes and he was a mystery school and pyramid initiate, and therefore a djedy ("jedi" is also appropriate here). the cayce material helps fill in the missing pieces, and the heretical gnostic gospels make for an interesting read, as per docholiday's suggestions.

the fact is he was a figure who understood the sacrament of sacrificial love, and like other teachers of the right hand path, being well versed in mystery subjects and the ills of the world, tried to impart this knowledge. his existence, while debatable, in the same way as socrates or lao tzu (or as is anything), is secondary to the real and human message of love, service, surrender, atonement/ at-one-ment, etc.

it's a nuanced subject, but a firm understanding of the polarity, sts-sto issue allows greater comprehension...

[Psion 3-K]

i believe very firmly that jesus did exist and he did indeed perform miracles. i'll share my idea about this confusing historical figure but it goes without saying that this is just theory. given what i believe is possible through personal exploration and research, i think it went something like this.

first of all, let's look at when jesus was born. he was alive during one of the most corrupt eras of the roman empire. although the romans were very warlike and just plain cruel to the life of the earth, they showed a lot of promise for increasing technological and sociological advancement. they had a society which was founded in principles that have lived on until today and they also had very many bright thinkers. despite this, much of that nation was still ruled by an almost caveman like mentality. thus the roman empire existed as a kind of paradox. you had people with the mentality of brutes coming up with advanced technology and sociopolitical concepts. yet they did not release their sponsoring base urges and see oneness.

jesus, i believe, was an ambassador of sorts sent to earth to show people the height of their potential if they chose to accept it. this is why he was capable of the physical transfiguration of objects; god the one essentially does this on the macro level to create elements and then everything that is derived from them. the way that god goes about this task is that he concentrates his pure essence in a specific direction for long enough until it gains a critical mass to become solid matter. in order to create the universe, he undertook an extremely advanced form of this by concentrating all of his will power into one point of ultra dense matter some know as the akashic particle. that particle then exploded in a sublime way, giving birth to the area which would become known as the land of the relative, or universe.

jesus was given a microcosmic version of the same power in order to demonstrate what a fully evolved human being is capable of. the ramifications of this on a worldwide scale are too sublime to even begin to comprehend. what is if we had a world full of 6 billion+ fully evolved, god conscious beings? but we don't, because what happened to jesus? he was nailed to a cross. by taking this action, the human race 'spat' in the face of its own divinity and even worse, created a religion that teaches you must believe that this divinity died for your 'salvation'. what this has done is it has let everybody's sins, wait, scratch that, own full potential of being ultimate creators, die on the cross with christ.

for 2,000 years people have not been offering their sins up to the lord at all; no, they have been crucifying their own divinity, not their sins. the way christ died in my mind was meant to represent a 4d sacrifice which he probably meant to use to show people divine peace. that was his last effort to try and help people understand his mission, but the church quickly came up with their own dogma of how to skew ultimate divinity to create the most bastardized view of everything imaginable. the core of what christ did is not in question, though. it is only the intent of the people whom created the church of deception that ensured mankind's slavery to untruth and darkness. it's terrible because the people whom created the corrupt religion of christ mixed truth with lies, thus ensuring that the message was very believable.

it's ironic because everything regarding christ was basically preplanned by all the people whom made the prophecies of his coming in the first place. basically this means that it has always been the ultimate purpose of earth to be the way it has been; nothing is truly unholy in life. even though we do not like where we have been, there are many blessings to be taken from it. it is a matter of how you choose to perceive things although i agree it would be extremely difficult to see it this way if the worst possible things happened to you. i only offer this post as observation and in no way intend to ridicule mankind at all.

i think from here on out it is all a matter of the choice mankind takes regarding its technologically advanced future. previously the barbaric states of man could be sustained because there was no technology to ruin the environment. that is no longer the case so we must choose a new path in order to become sustainable... the first time jesus came he was attempting to stop people from playing out the cycle it did. i think the age of jesus's 2nd coming is now, however, but he is not any one person. he is all the people whom are choosing the new path so that we may begin to forge a new direction. that is why so many people are awakening right now, to take the reigns of the power that we could have taken thousands of years ago.

there's my 2 cents. i hope you all enjoyed it!

[noppy]

jesus is cool. i know he won't come back and he knows why he won't come back. i think the 2de coming of christ is not about christ the guy but the consciousness christ had shall excist on that time also but not as one person but this time as an collective consciousness. we all shall reached to the same consciousness as christ had and thus christ had returned in spirit. that is what i think, everybody thinks diffrent. to be honest i don't know what this second coming of christ contains only that he comes back in flesh or something or atleast that is what it sounds like. could be that i got it wrong and the second coming means totaly something els :p

[DJDeeZe]

the following excerpts regarding jesus are from "seth speaks".

david mentioned the seth material in his most recent blog when he wanted to figure out which gate they would fly out of.


pages 370-371

"the historical jesus knew who he was, but he also knew that he was
one of three personalities composing one entity. to a large extent he
shared in the memory of the other two.

the third personality, mentioned many times by me, has not in your
terms yet appeared, although his existence has been prophesied as the
"second coming". now, these prophecies were given in terms of the
current culture at that time, and therefore, while the stage has been
set, the distortions are deplorable, for this christ will not come at
the end of your world as the prophecies have been maintaining.

he will not come to reward the righteous and send evildoers to eternal
doom. he will, however, begin a new religious drama. a certain
historical continuity will be maintained. as happened once before,
however, he will not be generally known for who he is. there will be
no glorious proclamation to which the whole world will bow. he will
return to straighten out christianity, which will be in a shambles at
the time of his arrival, and to set up a new system of thought when
the world is sorely in need of one.

page 372

there were three men whose lives became confused in history and
merged, and whose composite history became known as the life of
christ....each was highly gifted psychically, knew of his role, and
accepted it willingly. the three men were a part of one entity,
gaining physical existence in one time. they were not born on the same
date, however. there are reasons why the entity did not return as one
person. for one thing, the full consciousness of an entity would be
too strong for one physical vehicle. for another, the entity wanted a
more diversified environment that could otherwise be provided.

the entity was born once as john the "baptist, and then he was born in
two other forms. one of these contained the personality that most
stories of christ refer to....


page 373

the third historical personage, already born in your terms, and a
portion of the entire christ personality, took upon himself the role
of a zealot.

this person had superior energy and power and great organizing
abilities, but it was the errors that he made unwittingly that
perpetuated some dangerous distortions. the records of that historical
period are scattered and contradictory.

the man, historically now, was paul or saul. it was given to him to
set up a framework. but it was to be a framework of ideas, not of
regulations; of men, not of groups. here he fell down, and he will
return as the third personality, just mentioned, in your future.

page 374

when the third personality reemerges historically, however, he will
not be called the old paul, but will carry within him the
characteristics of all the three personalities.

page 376

i would like to make certain points clear. the "new" religion
following the second coming will not be christian in your terms,
although the third personality of christ will initiate it.

page 377

this personality will refer to the historical christ, will recognize
his relationship with that personality; but within him the three
personality groupings will form a new psychic entity, a different
psychological gestalt. as this metamorphosis takes place, it will
initiate a metamorphosis on a human level also, as man's inner
abilities are accepted and developed.

the results will be a different kind of existence. many of your
problems now result from spiritual ignorance. no man will look down
upon an individual from another race when he himself recognizes that
his own existence includes such membership also."


peace,
(:-deeze
:d

[royalg333]

consider the fact that several books in the new testement are first hand accounts of people who actually lived and walked with jesus. matthew, mark, luke, john were all eye witness to the life of jesus and their books are tetimony of his walk on earth. not to mention there are several secular writings that claim of jesus' existence. in contrast, there is only one first hand eye witness testimonial account of the great roman ruler cesar but no one argues of his existence. our own justice system is based on eye witness testimony. i am convinved that jesus christ walked the earth. i also believe he is our savior. however, i think his teachings have been buried under institutional religion and unneccessary tradition which has ruined the integrity of jesus' message on earth. i believe there is a definite connection with et's, ufo's, spiritual beings, our existence in a multi-dimensinoal universe, and the existence of god who created everything through and through.

[evolving]

just to clear something up on "the second coming".


17 (http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=17&ss=1).22 (http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=17&ss=1#22) questioner: in our culture there is a saying that he will return. can you tell me if this is planned?

ra: i am ra. i will attempt to sort out this question. it is difficult. this entity became aware that it was not an entity of itself but operated as a messenger of the one creator whom this entity saw as love. this entity was aware that this cycle was in its last portion and spoke to the effect that those of its consciousness would return at the harvest.

the particular mind/body/spirit complex you call jesus is, as what you would call an entity, not to return except as a member of the confederation speaking through a channel. however, there are others of the identical congruency of consciousness that will welcome those to the fourth-density. this is the meaning of the returning.
from this we see that jehoshua (jesus) will be channelled, but as of yet i have not heard of this happening, meaning it is yet to happen.

[MarkM]

maybe he already has channeled, but do you think a clear undistorted channel may have happened? and i wonder if he would claim to be distinguishable as that 3d person that is/was?

perhaps the point being ever so delicately suggested by the ra here deals with considerations of the 3rd density experience being a veiled, transitory mirage, not wishing to transgress against our free will but to suggest that higher densities of communion when channeled out of love may well involve the energies of the one jeshie, but not presented as coming through that persona which lived and died for that incarnation. in this, the combined and multiplied social memory complex which has arisen to some extent by 5th density has left individual lifetimes in 3rd density millions of years behind.

here, i find the meditating on the concept of the social memory complex interesting, as if we consider that the idea of channeling jeshie as he was soon after his incarnation may be hard to pin down, as i feel that even if the arisen jesus could speak to us now, he would rely on his words and vibrational sharing, rather than tipping his hat as to his jesusness - this admittance may distort any message he is a part of. mark

[12thUranus]

i'd like to add my words with regards to the last two posts. to say the same thing in my own way. i think we see with our mind's eye what ra is saying, but here we do the 3d twist ;).




as what you would call an entity
meaning we 3ders can't understand how a 3d body can be part of a 4d social memory complex at the same time. (sidenote: i do think our spirit selfs understand ) ra is kinda saying, "it's over your heads but to answer your question....."


there are others of the identical congruency of consciousness
meaning the guy(body) that was isn't separate, but there are many entities in the whole-- parts that will be here to help, just not the "part" that was incarnated in that body on the cross. again, in 3d they look like parts, but somehow beyond us- in 4d they are one.

my purpose for focusing on these parts of the passage is to point towards our down right inability to fully grasp what we seek in the answer to "did/does jesus exist?" that ra speaks of him/them is a strong indicator to his/their existence.

----
i strongly believe jesus/4dsmc, has channeled to thousands if not millions of 3d entities. i'm 99.99% sure he/they have spoken to me. imo, channelling occurs everyday to just about everyone, and its not something that need be publicly proclaimed or written for all to read. it just is.

[MarkM]

well said, 12th - it's nice that everyone has their own means of expressing things, it seems to me that we are all feeling much the same heart-understanding of the loo, and the variety of expression serves to offer many avenues of potential resonance to those who visit here, who are hoping for a ping off the heart.

as for the smc - outside the veil (after an incarnation) we seem to be commensurate with the sum of all experience garnered to date, from the dawn of individuality and through our trips throughout the densities. perhaps this unveiled state includes inklings of future potential attainment of the higher densities, but i don't know if the attainment of the higher densities is not still a veiled mystery to those who have passed beyond the 3rd density veil and into the afterlife, as it were. maybe the true beauty of experiencing past the veil kicks us back to the knowledge that there is only one soul in many aspects of learning.

i expect that being graduable into fourth density entails the taking of all individually learned experiencing to the next level, though, as apparently there is still a process of learning to match distortion with the ever up and coming challenge to lessen said distortion. i believe that the distortions of this 3d place have served to keep us from loving/seeing one another as ourselves, as valuable as this has been for learning..

if jesus had attained mastery of the 3rd density experience and found the home density of 5th as is suggested by the 6th density ra, and taking into consideration that the higher densities may entail a merging of identities in the sense of everyone taking on (remembering) the full essense of everyone else without losing sense of identity, maybe in reality the totality of the soul of jesus is not a separate quantum from your own unitary identity. what might happen is that we come to realize that all of us are the same identity in a myriad of seemingly separate circumstance.

perhaps that which speaks to our hearts from the benevolent and more evolved corners of the cosmos can only be described as us in the truest sense. from this it may be gathered that the idea of jesus is inextractable from our own identities, and perhaps jesus is no more removed from your own identity than your own potential to be and personify the one. key is that there's only one of us all - or maybe three or four - nah!! ;) so let's create your/my present future, baby, and get past the illusion of me and you? loving you, loving me. loving life. mark

[Patracia]

hi everyone.

i haven't followed all posts here, only the last three or so.....so excuse me, if maybe this doesn't fit in right....

my spiritual journey led me to india in 2004 to study with a young indian master (same age as david), who is giving out essential information of a large palmleaf-library he was led to. to say the least i am deeply touched and forever grateful for the divine experiences i was allowed to have/see/live since studying with him.

why i mention this: he claims to have been best friends with jesus in a former lifetime and to have promised to him to do the work he is doing in this lifetime, then.

for anyone who might be interested, here is the website, (if allowed???...)
[please pm patracia-thank you patricia for being so gracious-your comment does add to the jesus existence discussion ;)]

if the moderators think this is not fitting for this website, anyone interested feel free to email me.

with love and lots of light in my heart to all of you who read this.

[12thUranus]

if jesus had attained mastery of the 3rd density experience and found the home density of 5th as is suggested by the 6th density ra, and taking into consideration that the higher densities may entail a merging of identities in the sense of everyone taking on (remembering) the full essense of everyone else without losing sense of identity, maybe in reality the totality of the soul of jesus is not a separate quantum from your own unitary identity. what might happen is that we come to realize that all of us are the same identity in a myriad of seemingly separate circumstance.
that's good stuff. good stuff. it's about the reality of spirit. reality of thought connection, beings connected. we are more than currency circulators or sustenance recyclers. (holymoly, i just got a new perspective on the "lord's prayer": forgive debt, eat bread, but that ain't what its about). if all the clergy could realize what you wrote here, m, that'd be superb.


perhaps that which speaks to our hearts from the benevolent and more evolved corners of the cosmos can only be described as us in the truest sense. from this it may be gathered that the idea of jesus is inextractable from our own identities, and perhaps jesus is no more removed from your own identity than your own potential to be and personify the one. key is that there's only one of us all - or maybe three or four - nah!! so let's create your/my present future, baby, and get past the illusion of me and you? loving you, loving me. loving life. mark
all aboard! i'm hopping on that train :). hahahaha

[taeko]

i've hear an whole other story about jesus. that he was a soul that came from the planet of ***. an high advance civilazation that is one of the third most highest civilazation in our galaxy. they sended jesus as an example for us humans but they had to make him a male or els people thought that gods son was half female (hermafrodite). things went wrong offcourse and when jesus died they tooke his body back to their home planet.

[heavymetalduck]

i don't understand entirely if david considers ra' his route to ascension or spirit guide,i consider that dangerous,myself as it is written "let no one be found among you…who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. anyone who does these things is detestable to the lord…",i entirely believe in jesus christ's message and teachings on heaven.i could be the one being deceived ,it was written that the early aliens decided to have mankind believe in one god, to better to control us,did we come from alien dna? it is s lot of studying to consider when your beliefs are turning from one direction to another.i will always strive to learn,so my belief in jesus will stand up until a time my belief is proven false.consider the message,jesus took all god's anger upon himself to give us all time to prepare for the day of judgement,if jesus didn't then we are all lost souls or deceived by aliens ,those are scary thoughts.
i would like to hear david's decision,,is he thinking he can listen to ra' and follow jesus christ or does he believe that most are
deceived in the bible teaching of one god because it was an alien trick to control us ? anyone else thinking this way, please respond .

[captainokirk]

responding to the question of the thread, did jesus exist or not? i think the answer is obvious that he did, but did we get his entire message, or an edited version of what the powers of the time that the bible(new testament) was written, wanted us to believe? "all that i can do, ye shall do also, and even greater things" why is that ignored? why did we separate him from us? because we don't believe that we can do all that he did? jesus message was given to us through the writing of the bible, yet, the bible was written from stories passed down through the ancestors. and like most stories that get passed on, the truth gets stretched out, or omitted in segments. technically, humanity has been kept from advancing, simply because of those in power wanting to keep us separated and at odds with each other, it has been this way for 2000 years. not much has changed in the way we treat each other. the difference now, is that a lot of people are starting to realize, that maybe we've got it all wrong...

[heavymetalduck]

i don't want to be misunderstood,i believe in david's journey and the one message,we all should try to be as jesus is clearly the same message."perhaps that which speaks to our hearts from the benevolent and more evolved corners of the cosmos can only be described as us in the truest sense. from this it may be gathered that the idea of jesus is inextractable from our own identities, and perhaps jesus is no more removed from your own identity than your own potential to be and personify the one. key is that there's only one of us all - or maybe three or four - nah!! so let's create your/my present future, baby, and get past the illusion of me and you? loving you, loving me. loving life. mark"
that is perfectly thought out, thank you for sharing that message.i remove my frightened question to david, he is fearless on his journey and if he wants to " absorb ra's knowledge" and share the decisions he makes,i applaud and hope i can journey with the same resolve ! amen !

[Dreimeschier]

"let no one be found among you…who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. anyone who does these things is detestable to the lord…"

its said relatively early in the law of one that the giving of the 10 commandments was the work of the orion group. not that these are a poor set of rules to live by, but because they all begin with "thou shalt not...". the reason that these were considered negative is because, by giving strict commands and orders, they are imposing on the free will others. david himself has said there is a big difference between telling someone the "should" do something rather than simply suggesting it. the word "should" implies that, if you choose no to follow the advice, you are wrong. hence the quoted statement above is a clear infraction of free will. the interpreting of omens was something st. daniel (whom i share a name with) was made famous for, only he attributed his wisdom to god. if divination is detestable, that basically tosses prayer out the window. the bible is full of all kinds of questionable things; for instance, if your son talks back to you, you are supposed to stone them to death publicly.

don't get me wrong, the overall message of the bible is a good one, it's just that people tend to focus on the wrong aspects of it and, thusly, miss the point.

[barryvictor]

its said relatively early in the law of one that the giving of the 10 commandments was the work of the orion group. not that these are a poor set of rules to live by, but because they all begin with "thou shalt not...". the reason that these were considered negative is because, by giving strict commands and orders, they are imposing on the free will others. david himself has said there is a big difference between telling someone the "should" do something rather than simply suggesting it. the word "should" implies that, if you choose no to follow the advice, you are wrong. hence the quoted statement above is a clear infraction of free will. the interpreting of omens was something st. daniel (whom i share a name with) was made famous for, only he attributed his wisdom to god. if divination is detestable, that basically tosses prayer out the window. the bible is full of all kinds of questionable things; for instance, if your son talks back to you, you are supposed to stone them to death publicly.

don't get me wrong, the overall message of the bible is a good one, it's just that people tend to focus on the wrong aspects of it and, thusly, miss the point.

"the overall message of the bible is a good one, it's just that people tend to focus on the wrong aspects of it and, thusly, miss the point" seems to be judgemental at the least and appears in total confusion at worst...one must look at the bible as a historical document written by priests some 160 years past the point of occurence, and then sanitized and rewritten for whichever ruler was in power at the time to suit their own purposes of their select priest class...hence all of the versions of the bible text...what does deserve merit is the content that still makes it the most widely read text in the world...you have a historical account of negativism, barbarism, tribal rites, priestly kingdoms, monarchial rules, religious governmental institutions of control, and yet the basics on just one section of the total work carriers the most weight...that of the christ story...and that christ story is one that tries to turn humanity from a negative view point into one of a positive view point...depending upon the source one reads, one can have differing accounts of the life of the entity known today as christ...and some sources will say that the entity known as jesus, was not the first son of god to enhabit this planet...once again, the reader has to discern within that which rings of the truth, and that which rings of the driven...the christ concept never expected churches to be erected in the glory of his name, yet humanity viewed it that way as a method of control over others, that still hangs with us from tribal conciousness...the concept is that the church resides within each entity, not a group of entities gathered within an edifice for mutual admiration of their thoughts...our very essences include all that is...and ever will be...and the entity of christ taught this concept around the known civilizations of europe and asia...other prohphets spread similar concepts in and around other civilizations of the planet, yet their stories are relatively unknown as their societies failed the test of time...only their edifices remain behind for us to guess what they were and what they believed...so, what exists within your mindset is what you will fathom as beliefs...and your beliefs will guide your decision making in ways and levels beyond your concious awareness...just as the lulaby song goes...." row, row, row your boat gently down the stream....merrily, merrily, merrily... life is but a dream" rings true to the awakened one on this journey through time and space known as "earth"... may love and light fill your mind and soul with contentment and certain knowledge of oneness.

[Jeia Ra Manuk]

friends,
first of all, i absolutely love to read all you have to say, even thought there is a lot to say here. i'm going to keep this short and straight to the point, keeping it general and not quoting anyone. i love edgar cayce's information on this topic. for all of you unfamiliar with that, it is worth looking up. with the information i've been receiving, jesus did exist and is already reborn. it is hard to track him down, because of his high vibration... but as all these weird little coincidence seem to happen, i am led towards strange parallels and information i thought would never come up.

i find this website, oh-so-helpful: http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen049.html

scroll down, there will be a chart, and there you will see, according to edgar, the incarnations of jesus... and of course his future incarnation. pay close attention at which time he is assumed to return...

now, check this out, i found this very insightful. in my opinion, astrological charts are the best method for comparing people, espesially if we're talking about reincarnation.

http://www.astrotheme.com/celestar/
when you get here, select edgar cayce as star 1 and jesus as star 2.
you can then try edgar cayce and david wilcock... just so you get a sense of the accuracy we're dealing with when looking at these charts.

of course when talking about the credibility of the evidence presented for this dilemma, everyone has a good point!
i tend to look at things with a simple and open mind. when looking at similarities throughout world religions on the subject of sons of god born of virgins, the stories become identical. there is one thing that does not match (and as a history major, this is when i get very curious), the time and place, of course.
in this case, i like giving the example of dragons, and all of the corners of the world that share this "myth." who are we to say, what was flying around in those times and exactly when the myth originated (even though most connect it to greek mythology). right now, the biggest birds, as considered by scientist, are those that are already extinct. and except for the blue whale, we got nothing to be proud of when it comes to biggest.
okay, it is obvious to many that we are not the first civilization on earth, thus atlanteans and lemurians had a high chance of seeing pre-historic reptiles.
if we go back to edgar (regarding jesus) we see that he says, that the first incarnation of jesus was adam, or known to atlanteans as amilius. and if we take under consideration that the atlanteans were the closest to us, biologically, it only makes sense.
moving closer to our time and the time of jesus.
first of all, for anyone who is really interested in this subject they should study all the incarnations of jesus according to edgar, to see the similarities.
i like the idea many historian theorists have: the idea that a lot of religious texts around the world were interpretations of the events that actually took place. yes there is credible evidence that all of this seems like a personalized story of celestial objects in the sky, shamanistic rituals and psychedelic substances. but! of course it is difficult to get your head around such ideas as, we come from the light, we are light beings... and so on... we are at the end of one age and the beginning of another, this is why this is called the new age movement. most of us supporting this movement are quick learners are seekers of truth. yet, we still have all those that are resisting. same happened when jesus was here some 2,000 years ago. he is an ascended master. a 4 dimensional being in a 3 dimensional body. how is this possible? i can explain. a 4d being vibrates on a higher frequency and has the ability to do all those fun things we can't. when we except death in our last second of life, we also become a 4d being. there is one thing though, when you live your whole life in a 3d form, and is exposed to all the emotions on this plane, you become attached and want to reincarnate and live again as a human. this is why, if we ascend all together at one point, we will have no need to go back and will finally except our 4d being. jesus is a guide. he is a soul that already ascended in his physical form and thus when he returns, he will help us to do the same. for a 4d being to be in a 3d body, he has to go through a different biological embryonic procedure. thus we have the born-of-a-virgin aspect of the story.

jesus was a hippie in all definitions of that term, and what the authorities could not do to hippies in the 70s, they gladly did to jesus. plus he was one guy, how many hippies are on earth now? jesus peacefully protested until the end, and with this he was able to prove that violence doesn't solve anything.

what jesus did and achieved in a life time, our civilization is only starting to understand. we did hit a dark age at some point, which slowed us down.

[Jeia Ra Manuk]

...
jesus was a 4d being of light in a 3d body, he already knew everything about creation, altering our mind, physics and how to control the forces. he was able to raise vibrations and bring dead back to life. this is why we are most likely going to ascend soon. native tribes of all continents kept this knowledge alive, but they also had a downfall. sure jesus could manifest things from nothing, but we still cannot, and those who can are very rare. these tribes still had families to feed and protect, thus while keeping knowledge alive, they did not progress in war fare, and when the europeans would come... well we all know what happened.

to induce a state of altered mind or to reach alfa waves, we know, there are many methods. jesus knew all these methods. you might be against or for this, but trust me, the easiest thing for all of us right now would be, to get all the conservatives in one place and dose them with some psychedelic substance. i am purely joking and not advocating use of substances. i just don't see all of them sitting down to try to meditate... i hope so... and this was essentially jesus's goal. to alter the minds of as many as he could and to leave teachings so that latter generations can understand this!
as for the written history of the events that took place i have one thing to say. i have a hard time imagining a person following jesus around with a pen and paper, writing down his biography. did you ever hear the term "ahead of his time"? this refers to people whose talents were realised after their death. take for example van gogh. there are barely any documentations of his life from the time of his life. no one really knew of him, until after his death, when people began to realize the meaning of his work.
unlike dali, who although was a genius, fit well into the frames of his time, and joined an already ongoing movement of art. this is why jesus will be excepted much better this time and wasn't documented well enough 2,000 ago.

[Tracena]

i have no doubt jesus existed, and i believe he is emmanuel, god with us, but we are still learning what that really entails. i also believe that the bible is best understood when one has a good understanding of jewish culture and history. when we interpret it according to our 21st century lens, we get into trouble, and i think that's the reason for so many variations and denominations. there is a lot of jewish 'apocalyptic' language for instance... and they used it figuratively, where we tend to literalize it today (is that a word?) lol. sun, moon, stars, sea, heavens & earth... these are terms often used to convey another meaning than the natural one. another problem i see is that people don't use "audience relevance" with the bible as they would with other ancient text. they read themselves into the "you" and "us" instead of understanding the "you" and "us" of the new testament were 1st century people.

apocalyptic language and audience relevance are two hermeneutic principles that greatly enhance bible understanding. but even then, we are still filtering information through our premises and preconceived notions. the bottom line is, i'm glad jesus was here to give us the freedom we all enjoy... freedom to question, freedom to learn, freedom to share, freedom to seek god, freedom to enjoy life on this wonderful planet. on the eve of america's independence day, i pray that for people all over the world.

[AaronMichael]

according to seth, as channeled by jane roberts, jesus was one of three personalities that comprised the christ entity.
the third, paul, portion of this personality is said to return at a wonderful time to merge all of those aspects into one.
this merger is said to initiate a global change as well, which i believe we are encountering as well.

an interesting note:
gnostic and sethian works refer to the "thrice-male" being, which is clearly a representation of this same phenomenon.

so did jesus exist? the more appropriate question is "does jesus exist?"
and the answer is yes.

the only question is: will you recognize him when he is revealed?

[Jeia Ra Manuk]

according to seth, as channeled by jane roberts, jesus was one of three personalities that comprised the christ entity.
the third, paul, portion of this personality is said to return at a wonderful time to merge all of those aspects into one.
this merger is said to initiate a global change as well, which i believe we are encountering as well.

an interesting note:
gnostic and sethian works refer to the "thrice-male" being, which is clearly a representation of this same phenomenon.

so did jesus exist? the more appropriate question is "does jesus exist?"
and the answer is yes.

the only question is: will you recognize him when he is revealed?

moderator note: members should be aware that jeia's remarks are her impressions and may not follow precisely the law of one information or seth books.

the thing about the christ soul you know as jesus, is that his revealing has nothing to do with recognition. those closely related to him, the other liberators, that only themselves began to remember their goals here, have already accepted his return and are subconsciously aware of who he is. interestingly enough, seth being a relative of jesus is unaware of the big picture... same as amun and thoth and many others. the star family is rather big and i am not going to go into details. the fact remains, though: the negative vibrations extending out of our world and time, had distorted all time lines and had a dramatic affect on beings of all times and all worlds that had ever crossed paths with earth. yes, jesus is one of the three that commences the greater one, but certain corrections need to be applied. after 99% of lemurians had successfully ascended at the end of their epoch, jesus (same as adam or amilius) was the first 3d liberator from venus. he was to live a life with all the knowledge of the universe and still choose a simple, loving, serving-others existence. this was the first attempt of the already ascended venusians (one individual comprised of two, not venusians in general) to govern over the immature(at the time) atlantians. this again occurred due to the negative distortion form our time, where those seeing the future vividly (the venusians) had foreseen the horrors of our time and thought that introducing a christ spirit would commence the atlantians to follow in those foot steps. the information i received at age 3 is that jesus's more human persona appeared on this planet as an outcome of rage(negative energy wave) from the venusian we know as amun ra. he was the one to overlook the building of the pyramids and with the outcome that occurred and the unexpected change of events had upset the venusian greatly. amun is a relative of jesus and they are beings of the same single unit. because amun had not experiences a 3d body as a division from his father, the negative energy that he was able to shake off rather easily formulated on earth as a human being. more of an adept. the child that received this massive amount of negativity was picked up and adopted by a roman general. this happened a bit before jesus was born in the 1 century. they were to cross paths again in this lifetime most likely as a single unit. the 3rd part of the story would be the female counterpart of jesus. after the ascension we are awaiting now the three will be able to come in terms with one another and chose their own, new beginnings.

love,
et

[AaronMichael]

the female counterpart of christ is sophia. i would love to meet the physical embodiment of that energy, please give his or her phone number to me directly.

[AaronMichael]

i will also add another hint that seth as channeled by roberts is the eve soul. so although the information may have some of its own biases, i'm rather content knowing that the christ soul and the eve soul are still working together, just as they did with adam and his counterpart.

[AaronMichael]

look up the gnostic tales: sophia, that damned vain girl took it upon herself to gaze at a reflection without the illumination of her father, and spawned some nasty side effects that are being recognized now as the reptilian race. is this the spin off dangerous?
only if one is obsessed with the material aspect, otherwise the lack of a soul power is apparent.

[heavymetalduck]

"in a word, all the souls of men who shall receive the mysteries of the light, will precede all the rulers who have repented, and they will precede all those of the region of the midst and those of the whole region of the right, and they will precede those of the whole region of the treasury of the light. in a word, they will precede all those of the region of the treasury, and they will precede all those of the regions of the first commandment, and they will pass into the interior of them all and go into the inheritance of the light up to the region of their mystery; and every one abideth in the region up to which he hath received mysteries. and those of the region of the midst and of the right and those of the whole region of the treasury, every one abideth in the region of the order into which he hath been set from the beginning on, until the universe shall be raised up. and every one of them accomplisheth his economy to which he hath been set, in respect of the ingathering of the souls whohave received the mysteries, in respect of this economy, so that they may seal all the souls who will receive the mysteries and who will pass through their interior towards the inheritance of the light.
" for every one who will renounce the whole world and all therein and will submit himself to the godhead, that mystery is far easier than all the mysteries of the light-kingdom and it is sooner to understand than them all and it is easier than them all. he who reacheth unto the gnosis of that mystery, renounceth this whole world and all the cares therein".
amen !

[Jeia Ra Manuk]

look up the gnostic tales: sophia, that damned vain girl took it upon herself to gaze at a reflection without the illumination of her father, and spawned some nasty side effects that are being recognized now as the reptilian race. is this the spin off dangerous?
only if one is obsessed with the material aspect, otherwise the lack of a soul power is apparent.

here, i am not sure you read latin, but it is easy to understand:
2019

edit: i am sorry, the picture is so tiny! here is the link, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/file:sophiamystical.jpg

btw, here is what i posted on the edgar cayce discussion, i think it suits to be here as well:


the incarnation as jesus

two years after cayce's death in 1945, the dead sea scrolls were discovered in qumran. this remarkable archeological discovery revealed a large amount of information about a religious sect around the time of jesus referred to as the essenes and affirmed information provided by cayce. the word "essene" is never used in the dead sea scrolls but most scholars accept that the qumran sect was either identical or closely related to the essenes of the classical authors such as josephus and pliny. according to cayce, jesus was an essene along with mary and joseph who was affiliated with an essene community based on mount carmel which was a continuation of a "school of the prophets" begun by elijah, elisha, samuel, and melchizedek. cayce described the essenes as an pious religious community of men and women whose purpose was to prepare the way for the coming of the messiah. archeology does not reveal the meaning behind the word "essene" but cayce mentioned that it means "expectancy." according to josephus, the essenes were known for divination (foretelling the future) which agrees with cayce's descriptions of them spending their time recording experiences of "the supernatural or out of the ordinary experiences; whether in dreams, visions, voices, or what not" (1472-1). cayce also mentioned that the essenes were students of astrology, numerology, and reincarnation.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen049.html

love and light and love,
et

[Jeia Ra Manuk]

p.s: i did not notice before, on the wiki link there is an english translation of the image above!

[AaronMichael]

these are fantastic, thanks.

[heavymetalduck]

hym of jesus -
i found this researching the secret text of john ,it's believed to be a mystery code for ascension
"'before i am delivered over unto them we will hymn the father, and so go forth to what lieth before us.'

"then bidding us make as it were a ring, by holding each others' hands, with him in the midst, he said:

"'answer "amen" to me.'

"then he began to hymn a hymn and say:

glory to thee, father!

(and we going round in a ring answered to him:)

amen!

glory to thee, word !

amen!

glory to thee, grace !

amen!

glory to thee, spirit!
glory to thee, holy one!
glory to thy glory!

amen!

we praise thee, o father;
we give thanks to thee, o light;
in whom darkness dwells not!

amen!

for what we give thanks, i say:
i would be saved; and i would save.

amen!

i would be loosed; and i would loose.

amen!

i would be wounded; and i would wound.

amen!

i would be begotten; and i would beget.

amen!

i would eat; and i would be eaten.

amen!

i would hear; and i would be heard.

amen!

i would understand and i would be understood; being all understanding .

i would be washed; and i would wash.

amen!

(grace leadeth the dance.)

i would pipe; dance ye all.

amen!

i would play a dirge; lament ye all.

amen!

the one eight plays with us.

amen!

the twelfth number above leadeth the dance.

amen!

all whose nature is to dance doth dance.

amen!

who danceth not, knows not what is being done.

amen!

i would flee; and i would stay.

amen!

i would be adorned; and i would adorn.

amen!

i would be at-oned; and i would at-one.

amen!

i have no dwelling; and i have dwellings.

amen!

i have no place; and i have places.

amen!

i have no temple; and i have temples.

amen!

i am a lamp to thee who seest me.

amen!

i am a mirror to thee who understandest me.

amen!

i am a door to thee who knockest at me.

amen!

i am a way to thee a wayfarer.

amen!

now answer to my dancing!

see thyself in me who speak;
and seeing what i do,
keep silence on my mysteries.

understand by dancing, what i do;
for thine is the passion of man
that i am to suffer.

thou couldst not at all be conscious
of what thou dost suffer,
were i not sent as thy word by the father.

seeing what i suffer,

thou sawest me as suffering;
and seeing, thou didst not stand,
but wast moved wholly,
moved to be wise.
thou hast me for a couch; rest thou upon me.

who i am thou shalt know when i depart.
what now i am seen to be, that i am not.
but what i am thou shalt see when thou comest.

if thou hadst known how to suffer,
thou wouldst have power not to suffer.
know then how to suffer, and thou hast power not to suffer.

that which thou knowest not, i myself will teach thee.

i am thy god, not the betrayer's

i would be kept in time with holy souls.

in me know thou the word of wisdom.

say thou to me again:

glory to thee, father!
glory to thee, word!
glory to these, holy spirit!

but as for me, if thou wouldst know what i was:
in a word i am the word who did play [or dance] all things, and was not shamed at all.
'twas i who leaped [and danced].

but do thou understand all, and, understanding, say:

glory to thee, father!

amen!
(and having danced these things with us, beloved, the lord went forth. and we, as though beside ourselves, or wakened out of [deep sleep, fled each our several ways.

hope everyone shares this information..amen !

[Jeia Ra Manuk]

the one eight plays with us.

amen!

the twelfth number above leadeth the dance.

amen!

all whose nature is to dance doth dance.

amen!

who danceth not, knows not what is being done.

i really liked this part!

[AaronMichael]

so appreciative of this:
we are all in this dance, and those who are not swept up in the tides of transformation are only holding themselves down. it is natural for all of us here on this planet to be carried by the new influx of energy, and those who resist it keep themselves out of the know.

[Jeia Ra Manuk]

adding to our 'sophia' discussion!

http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/the_sophia_of_jesus_christ
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/sjc.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/pistis_sophia

love and light and love,
et