PDA

View Full Version : Ask and ye shall receive


Karen Bisson
02-21-2002, 08:55 AM
{{{Jeremy}}}


I was SO looking forward to your response! B.t.w. thanks for the advice
about the html on this e-mail address. I did have it registered as html
and have now corrected it.


<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
I can honestly say that this conversation has given me
cause to do a more intense study of Ra than I have in
some time. Thanks for being my catalyst. ;-)
</blockquote>



You're MOST welcome and a heartfelt thank you to you for being mine!
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
ALTHOUGH, I will confess that, if I'm not arguing
about something, I don't find much reason to post.
</blockquote>



LOL! You're not the only one. Were it not for catalysts, there simply
wouldn't be much to discuss. From this perspective we can get a pretty
clear picture of the "purpose" for catalysts and things being the way they
are.
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
*BTW, if it as at all possible, I urge you with every
ounce of compulsion I can muster ;-) to attend the
Louisville seminar and see Carla and Jim speak, as
this promises to be a most insightful presentation on
the backbone of all of David's and our work.*
</blockquote>



Oh I would love to go and see it but it's unlikely I will be able
to. Louisville is a fair distance from where I live. Gonna hafta work on
my teleportation skills!!


Thanks for the lead... I will add the www.llresearch.org site to my
"must read regularly" list.
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
I am totally humbled by these words. Don't anybody
think that just because some people express themselves
better than others that your thoughts are any less
worthy than anybody else's. I have so very much still
to learn that it brings tears to my eyes to consider
the possiblity that I could have stifled the sincere
seeker.
</blockquote>



Catalysts for learning. Wow, amazing stuff. You know, I find it
fascinating and humbling that some of our biggest and most humbling lessons
so often come from the most seemingly simple things. Things we might have
otherwise overlooked. Life does keep us on our toes! Ego is such a tricky
thing isn't it? We all have it. It serves a purpose. But man, it can sure
bite you in the arse when you're not paying attention and no one is really
immune to it here on this plane. I've done some long meditations on the
subject of ego over the years and have come to some interesting conclusions.
Conclusions that constantly evolve each and every day and lessons that
have taught me the vitally important lesson of never placing one's ego
above love of all. That's a tough one I tell ya.
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
I also realized the importance of the message you are
giving me, Karen. There is unity in the personal path
and the collective path if you're willing to abandon
whatever dogma you've consoled yourself with and
accept your situation as it is.
</blockquote>



Wow... that was really well said and I wholeheartedly agree!
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">Let me try and be perfectly clear about what I was

against. Many people think the most noble change to

the world that they can render is to affect some

outward, political change. I don't think that that

should be the goal of the seeker who intends to help

the world. However, I am in agreement that, if

seekers send a high enough quality of undifferentiated

love to the planet, such changes can be affected. The

key is to not be fixed on any one outcome but rather

to send the love energy and let the best outcome

manifest itself.</blockquote>
This is somewhat of a gray area, although essentially I agree with what
you are saying in that the LOVE need manifest the best outcome. The most
important thing is that the "goal" or the "intent" of the seeker be not
for personal glory but for the love of ALL. When I say that it is
a gray area, I mean that each one of us are driven by catalysts for learning
and that these catalysts come in all sizes. Some are so big they encompass
a huge portion of each lifetime. In other words, some individuals are destined
for work in the political arena and others are destined for work in other
areas. That some seek to enter the political arena in order to affect change
is due to the fact it is an area in which most change on a larger scale
seems possible to them and therefor it ALSO reflects the fact that these
individuals NEED that catalyst for learning. This, in a sense, reflects
the tapestry of our existence here. It's such a huge subject that it is
difficult to go into here in any great detail. The bottom line though is
that here is where we can get a sense of the overall positive or negative
balance that currently prevails.


There is also a point in case here with respect to the issue of "control".
You see, in one breath you are saying that you enjoy the challenge of rising
to the occasion to show your stuff. (we both do of course) In other words,
you admit to enjoying the "control" you have earned by following your heart
center and rising to the level where you are. But in the next breath it
appears that you are saying that the outcome is, or rather should be, determined
by an external factor which you defined as "undifferentiated love". In
other words, you are suggesting a relinquishing of "control" over the outcome
and suggest you are separate from it. This is a very tricky subject, worthy
of great discussion and is indeed an enormous catalyst for learning for
every one of us here in this lifetime. I will have to pick up on this at
a later time as my time is running short here this morning.


<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
Right. Although I don't think that there's such a
thing as unneccessary catalyst. Sometimes you have to
break things down to build up again, but I don't
regret this destruction because *it is the stuff of
life*. I mean, that's life, y'know? Struggle,
balance, integration... it's not only neccessary, it
is what we're here for. Would the catalyst occur if
it were unneccessary?
</blockquote>



Absolutely. I guess what I keep hoping for is an evolution beyond
the point of having to rip it ALL to shreds. One that is less destructive
and more constructive. I'm thinking of past civilizations on this planet
in this respect and how much time and effort it has taken to rebuild them.
<sigh>
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
I'm still not sure what you mean by "controlling
catalysts." If you mean using them or being catalysed
by them, then that makes sense to me. Is there
another connotation I'm not picking up on?
</blockquote>



No, that's pretty much exactly what I meant. "Control" has both
negative and positive connotations, as do all things. I was attempting
to refer to the more positive aspects of it.
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
I do agree - as long as one is not committed to any
one outcome but is simply sending love out to make the
world a better place. But to say, we need to put this
type of political or economic order in place is to
control, which is a negative impulse.
</blockquote>



Okay... here's where my previous explanation might help although
we may end up disagreeing on this point. I have a simple personal theory
about every single thing in this plane of existence. And that is that NOTHING,
absolutely NOTHING is inherently negative or positive. EVERYTHING is a
GIFT. It's how we use it... it is OUR FREE WILL which determines whether
it is positive or negative. That includes money, medicine, politics, you
name it. And when we're finished using it, it still essentially remains
neither positive or negative. What does remain, however, is the memories
of the experience which are either positive or negative. When we forget
that it was our free will, and not the gift, which created the catalyst
towards negative or positive then we have set aside and lost a very important
gift regardless of what it was. I honestly believe, with my whole heart,
that when we fully take responsibility for these GIFTS in this way, SO
MUCH of life will become clearer to us. You see... the Creator is neither
positive or negative... this is the message which is constantly being relayed
to us. I believe the SPARK that is FREE WILL is another one of those PIVOTAL
points we talked about yesterday. Think about what it is we're here to
learn and I'm sure my theory will begin to make sense to you. I welcome
everyone's thoughts on this.
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
I think you're right, as long as we decide what
"changing the external world" means.
</blockquote>



Now THAT is something that must be decided by the individual for
THAT is the very reason and basis upon which we were given FREE WILL.
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
I think I understand what you're saying now. You're
saying that you can affect a change on the external
world by your own inner work. That that has a subtle
affect on other people by its very nature.
</blockquote>



BINGO! This is a constant. Has been happening since the beginning
and will keep on happening to the very end... be there such a beginning
and ending.
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
The catalyst for 4D is the end of the cycle, IMHO. We
have a choice to be catalysed by these events and take
part in 4D or not and stay in 3D.
</blockquote>



I believe that any cycle ends when the manifestation of its purpose
is complete. Therefore there really isn't any "time" limit on it other
than the one it eventually creates for itself by having completed itself.
A flower, for example, has a purpose... it has a "time frame" in which
it takes to grow and then die. That time frame is different from say a
human from birth to death. Both had to complete their own cycle before
the "time frame" could be determined.


I think essentially we both have the same idea about ascension and the
cycle. But I hesitate to mention here that everyone seems to be waiting
for some miraculous specific event which will be the catalyst for these
changes. If we ASK for that catalyst, it WILL occur. Many people think
that when "it" happens then POOF, suddenly things are going to warp out
and become really different. I personally believe it is already happening.
I think, as with any change, until we are ready for it, we won't be able
to accept it and the "time frame" will be different for each person therefore
some will remain in 3D as you put it, and some will advance to 4D. I wrote
a piece on my web site about alternate dimensions and the concepts of belief
vs disbelief which might help to explain a bit more about my theories on
this. It is on the same page I posted yesterday containing the article
about the gardener. Bear in mind though (she says blushing) that many of
the concepts on that sight are outdated in terms of my own personal development
over the years and I simply haven't had the time to properly update it.
Still, those concepts are the basis upon which my current beliefs have
grown.


<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
A little from column A, a little from column B. I
think the fact that we are in 3D consciousness makes
us think of every situation in a time based context.
Since we have a very hard time imagining growth
without time as we know it, I can understand the
impulse to project this time idea on our spiritual
evolution and to identify a "speedier" ascension as
preferrable to a lengthier ascension. And also, while
I try to take the reigns of my progress to the fullest
extent possible, I am resigned to the fact that, if I
am not ready, I shouldn't beat myself up for not
ascending.
</blockquote>



BINGO! I'm no authority, but from my perspective you're doing just
great!
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
But I don't work on the self to ascend. I work on
myself because *that is the stuff of life*. That IS
life. Ascension is the result of an evolution that
conforms to harmonic principles, but the engine is
life / progress.
</blockquote>



Very healthily put!
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
(Continuing with this analogy of the building,) If my conception of
the final structure of the building is advanced enough
to know what materials are preferrable to what others,
I would naturally avoid the materials that cause
suffering. But if, in my ignorance, I build with the
wrong materials and later at a more enlightened state
discover that the building must be destroyed, I will
not begrudge the neccessary destruction and
rebuilding. This goes back to the idea that we cannot
act in accordance with principles we cannot
understand, but the point of life is to highten our
understanding so that eventually we can understand
them. Not only that, but the "bad" materials
faciliate that education. They are "good" in that
they show us what is conducive and what is
counterproductive to soul evolution.
</blockquote>



Yes I agree fully. My whining about this subject is mostly an expression
of my desire to understand what the right materials are. But it is also
an expression of my concern for what we haphazardly toss away without realizing
its potential value. I truly and WHOLEHEARTEDLY believe that EVERYTHING
is a GIFT and needs be treated as such. We, as in humanity, hasn't done
a very good job of that so far.


<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
Because we don't know any better. If we blow it up
enough times, though, eventually we'll learn the
lesson. And that lesson is so valuable that it's
worth a few virtual demolitions.
</blockquote>



<sigh> I know you're right but my love for the gifts we've been
given makes this painful to accept or want to tolerate to any great extreme.
I wonder if that's how the Creator feels about it too. I assume (and sincerely
pray) that the Creator has a whole lot more patience about it than I do!
Hmm.. worthy contemplation. Sometimes I think I'm a little different from
most folks in that regard. I perceive the Creator as being my dearest friend
and confidant and I treat He/She as such. I think too many people hold
the Creator aloft in fear and thus hold back their own personal development.
That is, of course, just my personal opinion. I think most people have
forgotten "ask and ye shall receive." Still, the Creator keeps on giving
them what they ask for. If that is a negative experience then a negative
experience they shall receive. If one really, and I mean REALLY meditates
on this, I believe they'll see that everything, including the coffee in
your hand, including the day you're having, including this very conversation
we're having, is something that you have asked for on some level for whatever
reason. EVERYTHING is a gift and needs be treated as such. That realization
changed my entire world.
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
Like I said above, being attached to a specific
outcome does not allow for free will to be exercised.
Otherwise, I agree with you.
</blockquote>



On the contrary... I believe that being attached to a specific outcome
is actually the manifestation of one's free will. It is the combination
of "free wills" that make up the fabric of our existence here. If one chooses
to extract one's self from any specific outcome then that too is the manifestation
of the individual's free will. If one believes in an outcome manifested
by love then THAT is the outcome one will achieve. To extract oneself from
ALL outcome... well now there's a concept that's pretty big. From my level
of understanding, that would be like casting oneself out upon the currents
of what is... and if everyone were to do that... what would be left? Would
the currents cease altogether? The thing is, if you believe that you are
a manifestation of the Creator's desire and WILL to experience Itself,
then why would you want to do that? Awareness of this journey, the ability
to manifest free, will which I believe is actually an inseparable part
of the Creator's will, is a GIFT.
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
>> Who said it wasn't hard work? Me?<she looks="looks" around="">> the room with a quizzical look> LOL!

Not to bust balls, but... <<etc etc>> It IS hard... just doesn't seem hard once you're
there.
</blockquote>
ROFL! That is the way of it isn't it?
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
>> What makes you think that since the Creator in
>> unity exists outside time he doesn't need to be
>> patient?

Patient implies waiting. Waiting implies the passage
of time. But if the Creator exists outside of time,
is there any need for patience? That's what I meant.
</blockquote>



But, as I said, the Creator exists EVERYWHERE including outside
AND inside of time... therefore patience is a GIFT. Time as we conceive
it, does not exist... but in a way it does for we need it to understand
the nature of how events unfold and therefor understand the nature of ourselves.
Therefore... could the same not be said for the greater Entity Itself?
I'm no expert on time but I perceive it as something that is a simple tool.
Something that is much more highly flexible than we, the average human,
can conceive at our current level of understanding.
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
It is my humble and personal belief that true patience
signifies an undestanding and the nature of how events
unfold that is multidimensional and outside of time.
In this sense the Creator is patient. Of course, it's
easy to be patient when you're outside of time.
</blockquote>



And who has the only true and complete understanding of why and
how the nature of events unfold? The Creator of course. And why is the
Creator playing this multidimensional game of "hide and seek"? To understand
Itself in this very way.


Once again, this has been a most enjoyable experience and I look forward
to hearing from you again.


TONS of love & light

Karen
<blockquote TYPE="CITE">

</blockquote>

karena83540
02-21-2002, 10:14 AM
Dear Karen,

What a beautiful post! Yea! I have been waiting to hear those
thoughts put together like that all my life. All of your thoughts
really reasonate with me:)

Thankfully,
Idaho Karen

Jeremy Weiland
02-21-2002, 02:09 PM
Hey Karen,

I was just thinking how cool this conversation is that
we are having, and got a 2:22.

> Ego is
> such a tricky thing isn't it? We all have it. It
> serves a purpose. But
> man, it can sure bite you in the arse when you're
> not paying attention
> and no one is really immune to it here on this
> plane.

It's just nice to finally recognize it; once you
understand the game you are playing, a lot of stuff
makes more sense.

> This is somewhat of a gray area, although
> essentially I agree with what
> you are saying in that the LOVE need manifest the
> best outcome. The most
> important thing is that the "goal" or the "intent"
> of the seeker be not
> for personal glory but for the love of ALL.

But doesn't the impulse to affect a certain outcome
come from a need to impose one's will, even with the
best of intentions? From the perspective of unity, is
it ever neccessary to impose a certain outcome, rather
than go with the flow and with your own higher
guidance? I think I need to distinguish between the
imposition of the ego and the effortless action of the
higher self. So if you cannot let go of your need for
fear and control and let the higher self guide your
actions, the best you can do is project love and let
the best outcome manifest. In essence, this is what
the higher self is doing anyway, except the more
advanced soul can allow his 3D body to "channel" the
love into a proactive, more outwardly useful form.

> In other words, some
> individuals are destined for work in the political
> arena and others are
> destined for work in other areas. That some seek to
> enter the political
> arena in order to affect change is due to the fact
> it is an area in
> which most change on a larger scale seems possible
> to them and therefor
> it ALSO reflects the fact that these individuals
> NEED that catalyst for
> learning. This, in a sense, reflects the tapestry of
> our existence here.

Yeah, that's true. I guess it depends upon your
perspective. There's service and then there's
service. And there's catalyst and then there's
catalyst. It's really splitting hairs, but it's
important.

If you are moved in a political direction, or any
direction, it doesn't matter because the best action
to take is always the one that manifests the most
love. So if you can keep a high level of love flowing
through you, you will be able to act more in
accordance with the positive polarity. Making the
choice to love rather than to judge and react is akin,
I believe, to sending love out in a situation. I got
the idea of sending "undifferentiated love" to people
because Ra and David had both mentioned. I think the
context in which this is mentioned is whether you
should pray for something specific for a person, the
point being it is much more powerful to simply
surround the subject in love and light and allow the
best outcome to manifest as a function of that light
and love. In this case of choosing personal action,
it would seem that you do a similar task when you
surround *yourself* with love and light and allow
*yourself* to manifest the most loving act for
yourself. This is exactly like saying you're "moved"
to do something, as I often hear new agers say.

It means that you are not calling the shots, but are
allowing the shots to manifest through you. This
subtlely affirms the unified will over the separate
will.

> great detail. The bottom line though is that here is
> where we can get a
> sense of the overall positive or negative balance
> that currently
> prevails.

Exactly. What I'm trying to do is articulate the
underlying philosophical distinction between a
positive and a negative act, as they manifest in 3D
duality reality.

> There is also a point in case here with respect to
> the issue of
> "control". You see, in one breath you are saying
> that you enjoy the
> challenge of rising to the occasion to show your
> stuff. (we both do of
> course)

Maybe I wasn't clear. I enjoy it, but I'm afraid that
it comes from an ego-centered impulse to dominate and
"be right" sometimes. On the other hand, there are
times where it seems that I genuinely seek wisdom
through conversation and have the search for truth
foremost in my mind rather than simply being right.
The key is to be able to tell the difference, I guess.
I think before I read that Q'uo reading, I was
concerned about proving my point more than learning.
Now I'm having much more fun because I'm not defending
myself so much as challenging my beliefs.

And believe me, the ego is still being worked on :-)


> In other words, you admit to enjoying the
> "control" you have
> earned by following your heart center and rising to
> the level where you
> are. But in the next breath it appears that you are
> saying that the
> outcome is, or rather should be, determined by an
> external factor which
> you defined as "undifferentiated love". In other
> words, you are
> suggesting a relinquishing of "control" over the
> outcome and suggest you
> are separate from it.

I admit that my ego enjoys control but not that it's
in my best interest. I don't think it's a function of
the "level" I'm at (I don't know what to think of
that) but rather simply the fact that, sometimes I am
a channel for unity and love, sometimes I'm a channel
for separation and fear and control.

I can approach this conversation, for instance, from
two angles. I can approach it as a learning excercise
or as a preaching excercise. In the latter capacity,
I am acting no better than Simon. In the former
capacity, I serve as a conduit for love/light and am
learning from the raw experience instead of
manipulating to achieve some outcome (such as a
concession from you). I'm highlighting two extremes
to show how I can do both those things you are
describing "in the same breath."

> Absolutely. I guess what I keep hoping for is an
> evolution beyond the
> point of having to rip it ALL to shreds. One that is
> less destructive
> and more constructive. I'm thinking of past
> civilizations on this planet
> in this respect and how much time and effort it has
> taken to rebuild
> them. <sigh>

I would rather expend less effort than more effort to
reach unity. In that sense, I perfectly understand
what you are saying.

> "Control" has both negative
> and positive connotations, as do all things. I was
> attempting to refer
> to the more positive aspects of it.

Could you elaborate here?

> that is that NOTHING,
> absolutely NOTHING is inherently negative or
> positive. EVERYTHING is a
> GIFT. It's how we use it... it is OUR FREE WILL
> which determines whether
> it is positive or negative.

I agree here. But I'm not sure that seeing events in
the world as devoid of polarity is beneficial to our
task of polarizing.

This is a pretty strongly held belief of mine: that
the utility of 3D existence is in it's ability to
polarize beings and that, right now, that is our chief
goal. It is polarity that determines all future
evolution through the higher densities, according to
my understanding.

> And when we're finished using it, it still
> essentially remains
> neither positive or negative. What does remain,
> however, is the memories
> of the experience which are either positive or
> negative. When we forget
> that it was our free will, and not the gift, which
> created the catalyst
> towards negative or positive then we have set aside
> and lost a very
> important gift regardless of what it was. I honestly
> believe, with my
> whole heart, that when we fully take responsibility
> for these GIFTS in
> this way, SO MUCH of life will become clearer to us.

I can't agree more. And isn't that what we're
attempting to do now through our conversation? :-)

> You see... the
> Creator is neither positive or negative... this is
> the message which is
> constantly being relayed to us. I believe the SPARK
> that is FREE WILL is
> another one of those PIVOTAL points we talked about
> yesterday.

How you define the will is crucial. We need to talk
with some common terms here.

> Think
> about what it is we're here to learn and I'm sure my
> theory will begin
> to make sense to you. I welcome everyone's thoughts
> on this.

Your theory certainly makes sense to me. I think we
just need to decide what constitues positive versus
negative use of will. Since we're all on the positive
path, we can use this conversation as a catalyst to a
more precise understanding of what it is towards which
we're striving.

> > I think you're right, as long as we decide what
> > "changing the external world" means.
> Now THAT is something that must be decided by the
> individual for THAT is
> the very reason and basis upon which we were given
> FREE WILL.

Right, I agree; it must be decided by the individual.
The key is not the decision but the capacity in which
it is made. Does the individual seek to serve self or
others? If the person is changing the world to have
it conform to it's will, then I'd consider that
negative. If the person is changing the world by
seeing the world as self and loving it, then I'd
consider that positive. Where it looks like we differ
is when a person seeks to love the world as self by
manipulating it according to his/her will.

> I believe that any cycle ends when the manifestation
> of its purpose is
> complete. Therefore there really isn't any "time"
> limit on it other than
> the one it eventually creates for itself by having
> completed itself.

OK, I can accept that, but I don't think that the
local 3D inhabitants of the sector of the universe
experiencing the cycle's end are the only determinants
of cycle completion.

> A
> flower, for example, has a purpose... it has a "time
> frame" in which it
> takes to grow and then die. That time frame is
> different from say a
> human from birth to death. Both had to complete
> their own cycle before
> the "time frame" could be determined.

My first impulse is to reject that explanation in
favor of the harmonic principle that is bringing the
cycle to a close whether we are ready or not. I don't
think the flower/human example is a good analogy for
the 75,000 year cycle that is drawing to a close soon
- I think it's a good analogy for the timetable of
ascension for each entity. In that, the personal
cycle draws to completion when a change in form or
experience occurs (like ascension) but there are also
cycles in the environment for such experience that
serve to enhance and facilitate such personal cycles
(like the 75,000 year cycle). There's more going on
in the universe than our local 3D soap opera. :-)

> I think essentially we both have the same idea about
> ascension and the
> cycle. But I hesitate to mention here that everyone
> seems to be waiting
> for some miraculous specific event which will be the
> catalyst for these
> changes. If we ASK for that catalyst, it WILL occur.

Does that asking neccessarily have to be the
concscious request of individual entities or could it
be the collective consciousness of the creator that
grows according to cycles that are larger in scope
than our progress at the individual level? The form
that such an event takes is a secondary consideration
to the purpose of the event, right?

> Many people think
> that when "it" happens then POOF, suddenly things
> are going to warp out
> and become really different. I personally believe it
> is already
> happening.

Of course; we're not talking about discrete events
neccessarily, since the harmonic nature of the cycle
implies a fractal nature as well. It is happening on
a wide variety of levels in a wide variety of degrees.
I think time is sometimes a distorting influence in
understanding the cycle.

> I think, as with any change, until we are
> ready for it, we
> won't be able to accept it and the "time frame" will
> be different for
> each person therefore some will remain in 3D as you
> put it, and some
> will advance to 4D.

Well, ultimately I agree. But just because a person
chooses not to progress to 3D doesn't mean that
everything will neccessarily stay the same. Actions
do have consequences.

> I wrote a piece on my web site
> about alternate
> dimensions and the concepts of belief vs disbelief
> which might help to
> explain a bit more about my theories on this.

Are you suggesting a more subjective definition of the
ascension concept? I'd be interesting in exploring
it.

> It is
> on the same page I
> posted yesterday containing the article about the
> gardener. Bear in mind
> though (she says blushing) that many of the concepts
> on that sight are
> outdated in terms of my own personal development
> over the years and I
> simply haven't had the time to properly update it.

Nope. You wrote it, and you're stuck with it ;-)

> Still, those concepts
> are the basis upon which my current beliefs have
> grown.

Throw me that URL again?

> Yes I agree fully. My whining about this subject is
> mostly an expression
> of my desire to understand what the right materials
> are.

You are probably a wanderer, since your desire to not
learn these lessons again "the hard way" signifies
that you know what the right materials are; you're
just trying to remember what they are!

> But it is also
> an expression of my concern for what we haphazardly
> toss away without
> realizing its potential value. I truly and
> WHOLEHEARTEDLY believe that
> EVERYTHING is a GIFT and needs be treated as such.
> We, as in humanity,
> haven't done a very good job of that so far.

No, but our freedom to screw up so often has also been
a gift, too, I guess.

> <sigh> I know you're right but my love for the gifts
> we've been given
> makes this painful to accept or want to tolerate to
> any great extreme. I
> wonder if that's how the Creator feels about it too.

:-)

> I assume (and
> sincerely pray) that the Creator has a whole lot
> more patience about it
> than I do! Hmm.. worthy contemplation. Sometimes I
> think I'm a little
> different from most folks in that regard. I perceive
> the Creator as
> being my dearest friend and confidant and I treat
> He/She as such.

Maybe this is the real difference between us. The
more I study metaphysics, the farther I get from the
concept of a "personal" God per se.

> I
> think too many people hold the Creator aloft in fear
> and thus hold back
> their own personal development. That is, of course,
> just my personal
> opinion. I think most people have forgotten "ask and
> ye shall receive."

True dat.

> Still, the Creator keeps on giving them what they
> ask for. If that is a
> negative experience then a negative experience they
> shall receive. If
> one really, and I mean REALLY meditates on this, I
> believe they'll see
> that everything, including the coffee in your hand,
> including the day
> you're having, including this very conversation
> we're having, is
> something that you have asked for on some level for
> whatever reason.
> EVERYTHING is a gift and needs be treated as such.
> That realization
> changed my entire world.

I know what you're saying and agree, but I wouldn't
say it the same way. But that's OK :-)

> On the contrary... I believe that being attached to
> a specific outcome
> is actually the manifestation of one's free will. It
> is the combination
> of "free wills" that make up the fabric of our
> existence here. If one
> chooses to extract one's self from any specific
> outcome then that too is
> the manifestation of the individual's free will.

I wasn't talking about the individual's free will; I
was referring to the free will of others who are
affected by the control by the individual excercised
over the situation. Obviously, the free will of the
individual gives him the choice of aligning it with
STS or STO.

> If
> one believes in an
> outcome manifested by love then THAT is the outcome
> one will achieve.

Well, this is releasing the manifestation from the
conscious control to the unified consciousness
control. I wasn't considering the concept of choice
as a neccessary part of control; control over the self
is a given... control over otherselves is where
polarity plays a part. To release those aspects of
the self (otherselves) that seem least controllable is
the ultimate act of faith in love and unity.

> To
> extract oneself from ALL outcome... well now there's
> a concept that's
> pretty big. From my level of understanding, that
> would be like casting
> oneself out upon the currents of what is... and if
> everyone were to do
> that... what would be left? Would the currents cease
> altogether?

It's not so much to extract oneself from all outcome
as to accept within oneself all outcome. Maybe I
should have been clearer... accept the currents as
catalyst and see what you are being shown, instead of
imposing an ego-based agenda upon your world. The
more you concentrate on dictating to the world, the
less likely you are to listen to what it is trying to
teach you.

> The thing is, if you believe that you are a
> manifestation of the Creator's
> desire and WILL to experience Itself, then why would
> you want to do
> that?

To demonstrate and reinforce the collective,
God-consciousness over the individual
ego-consciousness.

> Awareness of this journey, the ability to
> manifest free, will
> which I believe is actually an inseparable part of
> the Creator's will,
> is a GIFT.

I agree that free will is a gift, but I think we
interpret free will differently. Let me offer this
excerpt from "A Course in Miracles" that might explain
better where I'm coming from.

"It [the Course, but think catalyst] is a required
course. Only the time you take it is voluntary. Free
will does not mean that you can establish the
curriculum. It means only that you can elect what you
want to take at a given time."

> But, as I said, the Creator exists EVERYWHERE
> including outside AND
> inside of time... therefore patience is a GIFT.

It is a gift if you conceive of yourself as separate
from the Creator, i.e. within time.

> Time
> as we conceive it,
> does not exist... but in a way it does for we need
> it to understand the
> nature of how events unfold and therefor understand
> the nature of
> ourselves. Therefore... could the same not be said
> for the greater
> Entity Itself?

Yes, but not in a unified sense, only in the sense
that the Creator is the sum of the seemingly separate
and time-involved individual parts. Separation
implies time, unity implies timelessness.

> I'm no expert on time but I perceive
> it as something that
> is a simple tool. Something that is much more highly
> flexible than we,
> the average human, can conceive at our current level
> of understanding.

I absolutely agree, time is a tool. However, it is
only neccessary when there is something for which it
can be utilized, in this case for the journey back to
unity. It is unneccessary once in unity.

> And who has the only true and complete understanding
> of why and how the
> nature of events unfold? The Creator of course. And
> why is the Creator
> playing this multidimensional game of "hide and
> seek"? To understand
> Itself in this very way.

Yeah, but I guess my conception of the phenomenon was
that the Creator can reap the rewards of temporal
experience while seeing through it's illusory nature.

Take care,

Jeremy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

Karen Bisson
02-22-2002, 06:09 AM
{{{Karen}}}


Thank you! It's wonderful to hear that.


Love & Light

The other Karen


<blockquote TYPE="CITE">
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:14:42 -0000
From: "karena83540"<difrt @aol.com="">
Subject: Re: Ask and ye shall receive

Dear Karen,

What a beautiful post! Yea! I have been waiting to hear those
thoughts put together like that all my life. All of your thoughts
really reasonate with me:)

Thankfully,
Idaho Karen
</blockquote>