Karen Bisson
02-20-2002, 07:20 AM
{{{Jeremy}}}
Thank you for your insightful reply. Indeed you are right that these
things are catalysts for learning. It seems a shame sometimes that the
english language simply cannot do justice to the full meaning behind one's
thoughts. However, that in itself is a catalyst for learning, isn't it?
LOL! I think you'll find that we are more in tune with what we are talking
about than you may have perceived. But, isn't it interesting that when
we first get to know someone, this seemingly limited language barrier provides
us with the catalysts needed to suss out the metal and "level" of understanding
in another individual? Interesting indeed. However, it is always wise to
remember that a few exchanges can in no way tell you everything about a
person. That would be like standing out on a battle field and assuming
your opponent doesn't have a weapon or two stuffed in their boot. I use
that as an analogy only. I am in NO WAY your enemy. In fact, I think this
exchange may be the start of a wonderful friendship!
All too often, we make assumptions about other people that are incorrect.
It's important to look inside oneself and figure out where those assumptions
are coming from for it might surprise people to find that they come from
within and not from the other person. Usually these things highlight the
things we need to review, both individually and collectively speaking which
also provides the opportunity to "bounce our stuff off other people" as
you put it. Well said!
For lack of a more specific term, when I referred to unnecessary catalysts,
I was referring to the more destructive ones... ones that we DO have the
ability to change and sometimes simply don't bother to for whatever reason...
possibly because we are too deep in sleep or possibly because we simply
feel the need to experience those catalysts because our awareness has not
yet expanded beyond that level. That's what catalysts are for. This may
seem like a basic level of understanding to some... primary stuff even.
But you'd be surprised at how many of the more advanced initiates get confused
about it or let their ego get in the way of addressing what it is their
missing about it. Thus these things are also catalysts. There are always
old lessons lurking out there, ready to pop us in the nose if we're not
on our feet. When one finds oneself in a situation where it seems like
one is covering old ground, the wise course of action is to take a real
good look to see if you missed something the first time around. I'm not
pointing any finger at you, friend. You've certainly risen to the occasion
and thank you for that! I'm talking in general. I am thrilled by your willingness
to challenge my words, and bounce your Ra stuff off me. Seems to me like
your coffee is piping hot and freshly brewed. Just the way I like it! LOL!
Now... to continue addressing your letter.
I can assure you that I can no more be pegged as a collectivist versus
an individualist and that I too was merely trying to gain some balance
on the issues at hand. You're absolutely right in saying that both are
necessary. There are times when each one of us leans toward one side or
another for a brief moment for whatever the reason may be. This is a key
point to note you see... for this is the pivotal point at which catalysts
begin.
You said...
<<When one realizes that
the distinction between the self and the other self is
completely illusory, our two paths certainly become
one in a very real and practical way.>>
And later on you said...
<<I'm not insulted in the least. I can completely
accept that you follow a different path than mine and
bless you on yours. If we differ, not a problem for
me; it would just be nice if we understood one
another. Very likely our two paths need integration,
anyway.>>
I think you and I a more aligned than you think. These two paragraphs
sum it up wonderfully!
<<<Heh... I was always one of those people in group
projects who ended up doing most of the work. Maybe
that's why I lean towards individualism the way I do.
The group factor is necessary to integrate, no doubt.
I guess it's all about the balance you strike. All
we can do is offer that quality of light that we have
been able to distill from the truth we know. No doubt
that more than one path exists.>>>
Yes... each path is the diversity that the Creator seeks in order to
know itself. It is that game of hide and seek you spoke of.
<<<>> To sit back and allow the catalysts to do all the
>> work for us is to show ourselves as sleepwalkers,
>> in other words, lemmings.... in other words,
>> children who are not yet ready for advancement to
>> higher levels.
Well, we have a difference of opinion then.
<GASP!!> :-)>>>
Yes! Isn't it wonderful??!! LOL!
Of course it's not always wonderful when you are dealing with two individuals
who refuse to consider anything beyond their own narrow opinions... Simon
being a perfect example. But such is not the case here and I am truly enjoying
our exchange.
<<<So then what is catalyst? It is a supposedly outside
agent acting upon what we consider ourselves. By my
definition, a catalyst is not simply an isolated,
extreme instances where significant development is
accepted or rejected. Rather, catalyst is constantly
occurring, continually giving us a choice to polarize
in one direction or the other. Our conversation is
catalyst.>>
<<<Therefore, since there is no part of our experience
that is isolated, we never do *all* the work. We are
always being affected by things going on around us.
The fragmentation of the creator into separate
entities means that we can make a distinction between
us and them, within and without, but it doesn't mean
that we can just ignore the other parts indefinately.>>
You see... we're not really having a difference of opinion. We are both
saying basically the same thing. Catalysts occur within and outside ourselves.
What I was trying to point out is that we have the ability to control catalysts...
to "show our stuff" and that we should make use of these opportunities
when they present themselves. I know you agree otherwise we wouldn't be
having this conversation and you'd be fast asleep tucked away in your cozy
bed. LOL!
<<<The reason we are constantly affected by the outside
catalyst is because there is no outside and inside as
separate states. Because of the ultimate unity of
everything, the truth is that the catalyst and the
work we do in response to the catalyst *are actually
both part of the same action*. The distinction is
illusory. So who's really doing the work anyway?
Proof positive that the individual and collective
viewpoints are both neccessary.>>
Absolutely and perfectly said! So... that said... do you not agree that
it is as important to make as much of a difference in the external world
as it is to make a difference in the internal world?
<<Absolutely hands down no question about it. The key
is to accept our brothers, regardless of their
apparent state of development, as the self *while*
recognizing that, as 3D earth entities with limited
faculties, there is sometimes very little we can
*outwardly* do to affect a positive change in their
lives.>>
Okay, now this might highlight where we slid off the track of understanding
with each other. I fully agree with your statement here... in fact the
full truth of it is that we can do absolutely NOTHING to change another
person. They must do it for themselves. This is the perfect epitome of
the old saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Now, with that understanding in hand, let's shift to something a little
more subtle which is what I was aiming to address, and that is how the
external world affects us and what we can do to change it which is actually
the catalyst for internal change as much as it is for external change because,
as you know and have explained so very well, there is no separation between
the two. And that, precisely, is my point. If we do nothing to change the
external world, then we are doing nothing to change ourselves. Of course
if a person doesn't want to change themselves then that is their choice.
There's not a damned thing I can do about it other than to change myself
and hope that my changes are the catalysts for their change. It's that
100th Monkey thing again. <smile> I really love that monkey!!
<<This is not to say that subtler, more
multidimensional tools for intergrating and helping
otherselves are not available to us. Rather, I'm
simply suggesting that much of the lesson of the
physical world seems to emphasize the separation as
one of the chief catalysts of growth. Ra says that we
will be able to much more easily and fully integrate
with one another in 4D. I'm not saying there's
nothing you can do to make the world better, just that
things are the way they are for a good reason, and
it's a big burden to carry when you give yourself the
task of changing the world yourself.>>
Oh there's not way any one of us can change larger the world all by
ourselves. But to stop and wait for 4D? Well personally I don't think that's
what Ra was intending. 4D ain't happening all on its own. There IS a catalyst
behind it. The catalyst is US.
<<<Yes, but we can't be expected to act in accordance
with an understanding greater than the level at which
we are. There may be good reasons to polarize ASAP,
but if I can't understand them, why should I be
motivated by them?>>
<<I'm not saying that sense of urgency is absolute or
valid, I'm simply saying I can identify with it.>>
Understood. But you did say you felt a sense of urgency to hurry up
and get on with it. Are you then saying that you understand that "urge"
since you can identify with it and are flowing with the "purpose" of understanding
it? Or are you just blindly going with the flow? ;-)
<<Ultimately, we have all the time in the universe to
poke around in 3D.>>
Agreed!!! But sooner or later it's gonna get a lil boring. Such is the
nature of our curious selves.
<<Given that, I don't believe there
*is* any other purpose for the building, to use your
metaphor. The construction of the building *is* it's
purpose. The utility of the building is in its
ability to facilitate self discovery and growth. Like
Goethe said, "The purpose of life is to find out what
the purpose of life is.">>
BINGO!! So... are you going to build the building with materials that
will crumble or that require such devastating effort to fix problems that
you need to blow the whole thing apart, or are you going to build it with
something that allows room for growth and constant regeneration??? That's
the point I was trying to make.
<<Whatever the best way to build it is, remember that
(using this analogy) the building (unity), in reality,
already exists. The value of building it comes not
from the end product but from the experience of
building.>>
Yep, it certainly does exist. So tell me... why do we, as the collective,
keep blowing the whole damned thing apart?
<<>> one need also look outside of themselves.
I agree with that. But learning about yourself is not
the same as expecting the world to change because of
it. >>
Why not????? We've already established that the external and internal
are one and the same... so I'd be really ticked off to think all my work
is for naught! LOL!
<<That is what I was responding to: the idea that
our work here on Earth is primarily to uplift
humanity. I think our primary work is to learn about
ourselves. The outward, physical state of humanity is
insignficant compared to the immense cycle of
evolution of which 3D existence is merely one part.
In that sense, making the world a better place, while
a nice idea, is not the ultimate goal. Not that it's
wrong to try to make the world a better place; I
believe that learning about the self and acting on
that knowledge does make the world a better place.
But that is a side-effect, not the prime purpose, see?>>
Yes, I see. And once again... we are on the same track. It's that perfect
"balance" that each of us is trying to point out and in so doing, each
"catalyst" we create allows us to see another reflection of it. Wonderful!!
Simply wonderful!
<<Of course, we have everything we need to create a
paradise on earth *right now*. I don't doubt that for
a minute. All I'm saying is that, if that's your
goal, you putting an awful burden upon yourself that
is not only unneccessary, but does not reflect the
true unity of purpose in the 3D experience *as I
understand it*.>>
What makes you think I'm putting any greater burden upon myself than
already exists for each one of us? <grin> We can choose to "weigh" as
much or as little as we like.
<<I think the Creator is much more patient than you and
I are. Also, since the Creator in unity exists
outside time, there is no need to be patient anyway.>>
LOL!! You got that right my friend and I thank the Creator EVERY
DAY for it!! <She says as she recalls this morning's drama of
getting her son out the door and onto the school bus.>
<<I don't consider that a doom, though, but rather just
the wishes and experience of one part of the Creator.
Nor do I think we have anything to prove to the
Creator; David has always said that *we* will be the
arbiters of our ascension capability or lack thereof.
This is not about proving anything, it's about growth.>>
Ya got that right!!
<<In that case, I'll go to the kitchen and get another
cup. :-) Only thing I have to say to that is that, if
it isn't hard, why aren't more of us there yet? Also,
if it weren't hard, would the experience be worth it
in the first place?>>
Who said it wasn't hard work? Me? <she looks around the room with
a quizzical look> LOL!
<<This is getting interesting. Thanks for giving me a
person to bounce my Ra off of. :-) We may yet
reconcile our understandings.>>
I think we're certainly well on our way and I thank you too my friend.
This has been a most enjoyable experience.
TONS of love & light
Karen
Thank you for your insightful reply. Indeed you are right that these
things are catalysts for learning. It seems a shame sometimes that the
english language simply cannot do justice to the full meaning behind one's
thoughts. However, that in itself is a catalyst for learning, isn't it?
LOL! I think you'll find that we are more in tune with what we are talking
about than you may have perceived. But, isn't it interesting that when
we first get to know someone, this seemingly limited language barrier provides
us with the catalysts needed to suss out the metal and "level" of understanding
in another individual? Interesting indeed. However, it is always wise to
remember that a few exchanges can in no way tell you everything about a
person. That would be like standing out on a battle field and assuming
your opponent doesn't have a weapon or two stuffed in their boot. I use
that as an analogy only. I am in NO WAY your enemy. In fact, I think this
exchange may be the start of a wonderful friendship!
All too often, we make assumptions about other people that are incorrect.
It's important to look inside oneself and figure out where those assumptions
are coming from for it might surprise people to find that they come from
within and not from the other person. Usually these things highlight the
things we need to review, both individually and collectively speaking which
also provides the opportunity to "bounce our stuff off other people" as
you put it. Well said!
For lack of a more specific term, when I referred to unnecessary catalysts,
I was referring to the more destructive ones... ones that we DO have the
ability to change and sometimes simply don't bother to for whatever reason...
possibly because we are too deep in sleep or possibly because we simply
feel the need to experience those catalysts because our awareness has not
yet expanded beyond that level. That's what catalysts are for. This may
seem like a basic level of understanding to some... primary stuff even.
But you'd be surprised at how many of the more advanced initiates get confused
about it or let their ego get in the way of addressing what it is their
missing about it. Thus these things are also catalysts. There are always
old lessons lurking out there, ready to pop us in the nose if we're not
on our feet. When one finds oneself in a situation where it seems like
one is covering old ground, the wise course of action is to take a real
good look to see if you missed something the first time around. I'm not
pointing any finger at you, friend. You've certainly risen to the occasion
and thank you for that! I'm talking in general. I am thrilled by your willingness
to challenge my words, and bounce your Ra stuff off me. Seems to me like
your coffee is piping hot and freshly brewed. Just the way I like it! LOL!
Now... to continue addressing your letter.
I can assure you that I can no more be pegged as a collectivist versus
an individualist and that I too was merely trying to gain some balance
on the issues at hand. You're absolutely right in saying that both are
necessary. There are times when each one of us leans toward one side or
another for a brief moment for whatever the reason may be. This is a key
point to note you see... for this is the pivotal point at which catalysts
begin.
You said...
<<When one realizes that
the distinction between the self and the other self is
completely illusory, our two paths certainly become
one in a very real and practical way.>>
And later on you said...
<<I'm not insulted in the least. I can completely
accept that you follow a different path than mine and
bless you on yours. If we differ, not a problem for
me; it would just be nice if we understood one
another. Very likely our two paths need integration,
anyway.>>
I think you and I a more aligned than you think. These two paragraphs
sum it up wonderfully!
<<<Heh... I was always one of those people in group
projects who ended up doing most of the work. Maybe
that's why I lean towards individualism the way I do.
The group factor is necessary to integrate, no doubt.
I guess it's all about the balance you strike. All
we can do is offer that quality of light that we have
been able to distill from the truth we know. No doubt
that more than one path exists.>>>
Yes... each path is the diversity that the Creator seeks in order to
know itself. It is that game of hide and seek you spoke of.
<<<>> To sit back and allow the catalysts to do all the
>> work for us is to show ourselves as sleepwalkers,
>> in other words, lemmings.... in other words,
>> children who are not yet ready for advancement to
>> higher levels.
Well, we have a difference of opinion then.
<GASP!!> :-)>>>
Yes! Isn't it wonderful??!! LOL!
Of course it's not always wonderful when you are dealing with two individuals
who refuse to consider anything beyond their own narrow opinions... Simon
being a perfect example. But such is not the case here and I am truly enjoying
our exchange.
<<<So then what is catalyst? It is a supposedly outside
agent acting upon what we consider ourselves. By my
definition, a catalyst is not simply an isolated,
extreme instances where significant development is
accepted or rejected. Rather, catalyst is constantly
occurring, continually giving us a choice to polarize
in one direction or the other. Our conversation is
catalyst.>>
<<<Therefore, since there is no part of our experience
that is isolated, we never do *all* the work. We are
always being affected by things going on around us.
The fragmentation of the creator into separate
entities means that we can make a distinction between
us and them, within and without, but it doesn't mean
that we can just ignore the other parts indefinately.>>
You see... we're not really having a difference of opinion. We are both
saying basically the same thing. Catalysts occur within and outside ourselves.
What I was trying to point out is that we have the ability to control catalysts...
to "show our stuff" and that we should make use of these opportunities
when they present themselves. I know you agree otherwise we wouldn't be
having this conversation and you'd be fast asleep tucked away in your cozy
bed. LOL!
<<<The reason we are constantly affected by the outside
catalyst is because there is no outside and inside as
separate states. Because of the ultimate unity of
everything, the truth is that the catalyst and the
work we do in response to the catalyst *are actually
both part of the same action*. The distinction is
illusory. So who's really doing the work anyway?
Proof positive that the individual and collective
viewpoints are both neccessary.>>
Absolutely and perfectly said! So... that said... do you not agree that
it is as important to make as much of a difference in the external world
as it is to make a difference in the internal world?
<<Absolutely hands down no question about it. The key
is to accept our brothers, regardless of their
apparent state of development, as the self *while*
recognizing that, as 3D earth entities with limited
faculties, there is sometimes very little we can
*outwardly* do to affect a positive change in their
lives.>>
Okay, now this might highlight where we slid off the track of understanding
with each other. I fully agree with your statement here... in fact the
full truth of it is that we can do absolutely NOTHING to change another
person. They must do it for themselves. This is the perfect epitome of
the old saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Now, with that understanding in hand, let's shift to something a little
more subtle which is what I was aiming to address, and that is how the
external world affects us and what we can do to change it which is actually
the catalyst for internal change as much as it is for external change because,
as you know and have explained so very well, there is no separation between
the two. And that, precisely, is my point. If we do nothing to change the
external world, then we are doing nothing to change ourselves. Of course
if a person doesn't want to change themselves then that is their choice.
There's not a damned thing I can do about it other than to change myself
and hope that my changes are the catalysts for their change. It's that
100th Monkey thing again. <smile> I really love that monkey!!
<<This is not to say that subtler, more
multidimensional tools for intergrating and helping
otherselves are not available to us. Rather, I'm
simply suggesting that much of the lesson of the
physical world seems to emphasize the separation as
one of the chief catalysts of growth. Ra says that we
will be able to much more easily and fully integrate
with one another in 4D. I'm not saying there's
nothing you can do to make the world better, just that
things are the way they are for a good reason, and
it's a big burden to carry when you give yourself the
task of changing the world yourself.>>
Oh there's not way any one of us can change larger the world all by
ourselves. But to stop and wait for 4D? Well personally I don't think that's
what Ra was intending. 4D ain't happening all on its own. There IS a catalyst
behind it. The catalyst is US.
<<<Yes, but we can't be expected to act in accordance
with an understanding greater than the level at which
we are. There may be good reasons to polarize ASAP,
but if I can't understand them, why should I be
motivated by them?>>
<<I'm not saying that sense of urgency is absolute or
valid, I'm simply saying I can identify with it.>>
Understood. But you did say you felt a sense of urgency to hurry up
and get on with it. Are you then saying that you understand that "urge"
since you can identify with it and are flowing with the "purpose" of understanding
it? Or are you just blindly going with the flow? ;-)
<<Ultimately, we have all the time in the universe to
poke around in 3D.>>
Agreed!!! But sooner or later it's gonna get a lil boring. Such is the
nature of our curious selves.
<<Given that, I don't believe there
*is* any other purpose for the building, to use your
metaphor. The construction of the building *is* it's
purpose. The utility of the building is in its
ability to facilitate self discovery and growth. Like
Goethe said, "The purpose of life is to find out what
the purpose of life is.">>
BINGO!! So... are you going to build the building with materials that
will crumble or that require such devastating effort to fix problems that
you need to blow the whole thing apart, or are you going to build it with
something that allows room for growth and constant regeneration??? That's
the point I was trying to make.
<<Whatever the best way to build it is, remember that
(using this analogy) the building (unity), in reality,
already exists. The value of building it comes not
from the end product but from the experience of
building.>>
Yep, it certainly does exist. So tell me... why do we, as the collective,
keep blowing the whole damned thing apart?
<<>> one need also look outside of themselves.
I agree with that. But learning about yourself is not
the same as expecting the world to change because of
it. >>
Why not????? We've already established that the external and internal
are one and the same... so I'd be really ticked off to think all my work
is for naught! LOL!
<<That is what I was responding to: the idea that
our work here on Earth is primarily to uplift
humanity. I think our primary work is to learn about
ourselves. The outward, physical state of humanity is
insignficant compared to the immense cycle of
evolution of which 3D existence is merely one part.
In that sense, making the world a better place, while
a nice idea, is not the ultimate goal. Not that it's
wrong to try to make the world a better place; I
believe that learning about the self and acting on
that knowledge does make the world a better place.
But that is a side-effect, not the prime purpose, see?>>
Yes, I see. And once again... we are on the same track. It's that perfect
"balance" that each of us is trying to point out and in so doing, each
"catalyst" we create allows us to see another reflection of it. Wonderful!!
Simply wonderful!
<<Of course, we have everything we need to create a
paradise on earth *right now*. I don't doubt that for
a minute. All I'm saying is that, if that's your
goal, you putting an awful burden upon yourself that
is not only unneccessary, but does not reflect the
true unity of purpose in the 3D experience *as I
understand it*.>>
What makes you think I'm putting any greater burden upon myself than
already exists for each one of us? <grin> We can choose to "weigh" as
much or as little as we like.
<<I think the Creator is much more patient than you and
I are. Also, since the Creator in unity exists
outside time, there is no need to be patient anyway.>>
LOL!! You got that right my friend and I thank the Creator EVERY
DAY for it!! <She says as she recalls this morning's drama of
getting her son out the door and onto the school bus.>
<<I don't consider that a doom, though, but rather just
the wishes and experience of one part of the Creator.
Nor do I think we have anything to prove to the
Creator; David has always said that *we* will be the
arbiters of our ascension capability or lack thereof.
This is not about proving anything, it's about growth.>>
Ya got that right!!
<<In that case, I'll go to the kitchen and get another
cup. :-) Only thing I have to say to that is that, if
it isn't hard, why aren't more of us there yet? Also,
if it weren't hard, would the experience be worth it
in the first place?>>
Who said it wasn't hard work? Me? <she looks around the room with
a quizzical look> LOL!
<<This is getting interesting. Thanks for giving me a
person to bounce my Ra off of. :-) We may yet
reconcile our understandings.>>
I think we're certainly well on our way and I thank you too my friend.
This has been a most enjoyable experience.
TONS of love & light
Karen