Issue with reincarnation theories

[Mikazo]

forgive me if this has already been discussed, however i read the "reincarnation of edgar cayce" and it was discussed how spirits descended into the physical thinking they could go back and forth, but got stuck and begun a process of reincarnation where they "had to keep coming back" to the physical.

the same book also recounted how ra-ta had become karmically bound to the earth through his supposed excesses with women. i hear similar stories all the time, things such as how somebody was a scientist in atlantis and took too much pride in his work, so became karmically bound to the earth.

i'm sorry but i don't quite get this, and i have a hard time swallowing it too. this seems to indicate a very malicious set up in the universe, this recurring entrapment scenario. how on earth do you get "stuck" in a reincarnational cycle by becoming physical? why can't you just die and leave the physical that way? why would your future incarnations have to pay for innocent mistakes made in the past? aren't all incarnations solely for the purpose of soul growth? and what is with the theory that you can only resolve karmic issues in a 3d environment?

this seems off to me and i wonder how many people have really questioned the majority of what is said about karma, or believe it for that matter.

[litllady]

mikazo, hello!


just letting ya know how my mind processed this information. i didnt believe in reincarnation when i was younger, but i also didnt believe in a hell with gnashing teeth. it wasnt till i really began deep studying of all religions(and no, i am of no religion, just faith, god is in many places thought, so i search them all) that i could see through the fog, and i am still not 100% that i know what happens. i am 100% that we have a body that can one day leave this world.

with me, it all started with the bible. even though its going against the grain a bit to say that jesus or the bible ever taught such things, i can show you where it did. the idea is, if you can get your vibration right here, and steady it, you wont have to be born of flesh again.

when i began working with my dreams, right after i found this site, it was like my guide or spirit or whatever, someone was just waiting to show me things. the first thing i was shown was horrific, it was my death in a dream. but ultimately, i felt it was trying to show me, that i have a spirit/soul body and there is a place for this body after i die. i also felt very strongly that i am here with others, that some of us came here together, to help awaken one another. if there is more then 2, the more powerful you are.

my very first ideas about reincarnation was in a dream, i dreamt of talking with others about mechelzidech from the bible. something just struck me odd, and i thought that it could be very possible that the soul that was in mechelzideck, was also the soul that came to be in jesus.

can i ask you a question? if you dont feel comfortable with reincarnation, what do you fell happens when we die. some say we turn to dirt and that is that, no afterlife at all. some say we either go to heaven or hell, some say our ether body becomes one with the earth again. dont beleive something just cuz. if it doesnt feel right, then seek answers for your questions. what is your main source for spiritual information?-the law of one, the bible, do you like old egyptian and sumerian stuff, do you have any main source you prefer, mabey i could point something out to you that might ease your thoughts on this.

my reasoning of reincarnation came from studying ever religion that i could find. how odd it was to me that so many beleived that we could live here many times if we dont get it right.

as always, these are just opinions and thoughts-
ive been in the same curious moment that you are in-
peace to you,
lynette

[Mikazo]

my issue with reincarnation has nothing to do with the idea itself, rather the idea that one "has" to do it in order to resolve karma, or that one can get "stuck" in a reincarnational cycle by incarnating and, or that one can become "karmically bound" to the earth or any other planet. this sort of mechanism would seem to be counterevolutionary to one's growth, if a person is just a sitting duck, continually reincarnating on the planet over and over because he or she was too prideful in atlantis or had too much sex.

it makes more sense to me to think that one would choose to incarnate with a specific purpose in life related to something happening around him or her, or to learn a life lesson. it seems to me that most people who incarnate at all do so with a very specific reason, and usually incarnate within families and communities which are relevant to their objectives, not simply to clean up some mess in the past, which the person is mostly unaware of, and avoid incurring some new one.

pardon me but i think the kinds of theories of karma referred to in books such as david's is a throwback from older eastern religions which used the concept of karma to control people, or from eastern theologians who reasoned in a moralistic fashion that "negative" deeds come back to the perpetrators in future lives to be "balanced out," because they wanted a sense of justice in the universe and didn't have the heaven-and-hell theory that the western churches did.

[johnasmodeus]

i'm sorry but i don't quite get this, and i have a hard time swallowing it too. this seems to indicate a very malicious set up in the universe, this recurring entrapment scenario. how on earth do you get "stuck" in a reincarnational cycle by becoming physical?

you can visit spain for a day and then leave. no problem. you can go about your life and never think of it again. or you can go back for a week. or even a month. vacations. they need not impact your life back home at all.

now imagine you go there for five years. you will make friends, learn the language, meet mentors, perhaps even find love. you will find a part of yourself that you did not know about before and that part of you will always be linked to the environment that brought it out into the open. when you return, will you be able to file away your experiences as easily, rope them off and ignore them? i doubt it. you will have connections to all those who you left. like tiny little threads, and on each one, a tiny tag with a note that says, "if only i had" or "i wish i hadn't" or "i'd like to do that just one more time" or "i wonder what she's doing right now."

when you next find time for a vacation, you may choose to go back and attempt to follow those threads back to where they were created and find where those desires take you. or you may not. "karmic entrapment" works in a similar way. but "entrapment" is something of a misnomer, since it implies coercion.

you can be "entrapped" in the physical during one life, which is something cayce referred to. but this entrapment was more like going to spain and then discovering that all flights home had been cancelled. there is a distinction to be made.


why can't you just die and leave the physical that way?

you can. but you have to go back to "spain" to bring to completion whatever issues you have built there. you can't do it from the astral because you don't have the tools (or the reach) to do so there. it's a choice, as always.


why would your future incarnations have to pay for innocent mistakes made in the past?

the universe may not make a distinction between innocent and not-so innocent mistakes. you cannot expect an inhuman universe to subscribe to human value judgements. actions that may seem innocent to you may have unintended results that you may or may not choose to rectify from the enhanced vantage point of time/space.


aren't all incarnations solely for the purpose of soul growth?

yes. but i don't see the contradiction here. karma is an intrinsic element in the process of soul growth. where is the contradiction?


and what is with the theory that you can only resolve karmic issues in a 3d environment?

i'm afraid this statement is a bit off. you can correct issues that were created in 3d anywhere, but they will be resolved (exponentially) quicker if addressed in the same circumstances under which they were created. thus people choose to come back to 3d to resolve them. nobody is forced.

hope this helps. :)

[urakei]

hi mikazo,

interesting subject, i like to share my thought on this,

for start, short and simple answer is you'll know it when you're dead. nobody can prove it unless you perceive it yourself. :p

long answer: but it could also probably means we might be shocked to know the answer when we're dead. so to not be "shocked" and regret what we had missed in this life, we have to explore all the possibilities before we will shown the answer.

so for edgar cayce - ra-ta issues, i tried to feel if i were ra-ta, i got all the knowledge on that life, suddenly when i dead i knew that i had made a terrible mistake which involves others. imagine being able to know the answers to everything that we had questioned while we had lived? and we had chose the undesired path. while at the same time didn't have any clue what it'll be like in the spiritual level. i think it would lead to regret, and not forgiving oneself. that could lead to choosing to reincarnate to a new life trying to undone or at least fix the error. this is one possibility. at least it resonates with me.

also in 4th density (probably the lower or in between) any thought will easily manifest itself. so any regret or resentment will be amplified greatly. try to see from peoples who is suicidal, always in regrets, not forgiving him/herself (watch some movies about this kind of scenario). try to feel how they feel. i think ra-ta had felt it that way which lead him to think that he had some debts to fulfill before he forgives himself. so that thought had manifest itself and creates a karma/inertia/purpose/destiny to himself.

so if we're prepared and be aware of this, we might be able to forgive ourself, and release the attachments that we got on the previous life and move on to higher density. we choose.

to balance/confuse this, there's also a thought that, this whole thing might be some intrusion/control scheme from reptilians/greys/those who 'own' us. which could make illusions/holograms/suggestions to our souls, making we believe that we had to do this, or maybe force it to be this way. they also have a capability to capture souls. that's a possibility too but it sound negative though. i don't like this kind of thought, but i have to be prepared and be observant for this kind of scenario. like i said, explore all possibilities.

a lot of issues will come once we starts to think/fluctuate/vibrate/observe. at the end of the experience there's always wisdom once we are aware of it. we might stay away if we feared/ignored it but it will not resolve and will come back to us again. just know that it is our will to choose which path we want. ;)

if i got confused, i always sooth my mind with, the creator fragments is all there is. so all that we perceive is all that what the creator wants to experience. no matter how it is i would like to accept it with hopes to learn and gain wisdom from it.

that's my 2 cents on this death thing.
hopefully this thought would resonate with you. if not, you could still choose other thoughts. no harm done. :p
peace & thanks :)

[FooSnik]

i know what you mean. i have thought a lot about this too. it is simply a law of this universe. it is like two magnets attracting to each other. would you call nature malicious for being cold in the winter time? no, nature is not malicious, nature just is what it is.

karma seeks balance. it is like the law of cause and effect. if you do this then this will happen. karma can take many forms and sometimes it can take the form of a debt that must be repaid. the danger is that in the current stage the earth is in, the veil is very thick and when people incarnate in a body they forget why they came and where they came from. and people are easily caught up in the cycle of fear, and fear breeds selfishness. and selfishness breeds karmic debts which then need to be balanced. the pendulum needs to swing back and find balance.

karma is not malicious. it is the fact that earth is still very thick and dense that causes the danger.

that is what i make of it.

take it light,
foo

[Mikazo]

can you give me an example of how an unconscious selfish act is creating "debt" and how it needs to be "repaid?"

i mean it seems to me that the idea of repaying debt is a throwback of a deep human feeling of unworthiness, and trying to be pure enough to advance to the next level. but i haven't heard all your thoughts on this issue in more detail yet.


i know what you mean. i have thought a lot about this too. it is simply a law of this universe. it is like two magnets attracting to each other. would you call nature malicious for being cold in the winter time? no, nature is not malicious, nature just is what it is.

karma seeks balance. it is like the law of cause and effect. if you do this then this will happen. karma can take many forms and sometimes it can take the form of a debt that must be repaid. the danger is that in the current stage the earth is in, the veil is very thick and when people incarnate in a body they forget why they came and where they came from. and people are easily caught up in the cycle of fear, and fear breeds selfishness. and selfishness breeds karmic debts which then need to be balanced. the pendulum needs to swing back and find balance.

karma is not malicious. it is the fact that earth is still very thick and dense that causes the danger.

that is what i make of it.

take it light,
foo

[Mikazo]

this seems to make a bit more sense to me, in that one would want to choose to come to earth to resolve something unfinished, and not that it's the result of some sort of cosmic inertia. i'm at least making an educated guess that this is what you're getting at? :)


you can visit spain for a day and then leave. no problem. you can go about your life and never think of it again. or you can go back for a week. or even a month. vacations. they need not impact your life back home at all.

(rest of reply snipped)

[johnasmodeus]

this seems to make a bit more sense to me, in that one would want to choose to come to earth to resolve something unfinished, and not that it's the result of some sort of cosmic inertia. i'm at least making an educated guess that this is what you're getting at? :)

bingo. although people like to throw around the term "karmic debt," it really is not a debt at all. so i hope you don't get tripped up by that usage; a lot do.

it doesn't have to be difficult, judgmental or seen as a punishment or debt of any kind. a good analogy would be the steps up to a train platform. let's say that you get on a train and take it to a station named "earth." then you get of the train and walk down the steps from the platform.

suddenly you decide you don't want to be there anymore. you want to get back on the train. so what do you need to do before you can get back on the train? walk back up the steps. having to walk up the steps isn't a debt, or a punishment for walking down them a few moments ago. it's just the dispassionate, impersonal laws of physics. the train boards up there; you're down here; so no matter how much you want to get on the train, unless you put forth the effort to walk back up the steps you just walked down, you won't be getting on it.

but then it's not even as difficult as that, since you have the benefit of an eternal time-frame in the spirit. so you don't have to walk up the steps if you don't want to; you can wait for the hill under the platform to naturally erode over the eons, so to speak, bringing the platform down to your level.

but most just choose to walk up the steps.

:d

[Nina]

dear mikazo,
smith's works allow us to read the bible with fresh eyes (wide-open with the insights of steiner). do not know of any comparable works. this fr burning bush, karma and reincarnation ch (may also want to see his entire soul's long journey:how the bible reveals reincarnation". much new understanding of luke and job. please treat yourself to the exploration of some of these explanations. nina
www.bibleandanthroposophy.com

"the soul’s journey after death can be succinctly stated. death is followed immediately by a perfect “memory tableau” in the etheric world of the entire life just ended, lasting up to about three days. the second stage, from which the roman catholic doctrine of purgatory was properly, if imprecisely (see fn 11 below), taken is known in the orient as “kamaloca,” and takes place in the astral world, lasting approximately one-third of the duration of the immediate past life. here the entire life is experienced in reverse order from death back to birth (see “purifying fire”). thereafter the soul enters the spiritual world proper, which is itself divided into the lower and higher heaven (in oriental terminology, “lower devachan” and “higher devachan”). (from the nature of his description, we may reasonably infer that the “third heaven” to which paul was carried [2 cor 12,2] was the higher devachan, the three being, in order, the astral world, lower devachan and higher devachan.5 ) this period customarily lasts for some centuries. its midway and highest point is referred to as the soul’s “midnight” hour, from which it begins its descent back into incarnation as a new and unique personality.6 in its descent, the soul traverses in reverse order the stages of its ascent, taking into the fourfold makeup of its prospective earthly personality what each realm has to offer to the soul for its own progress toward “perfect(ion).” now we will look at the stages in more detail.

the human ego perceives phenomena through its astral (sense) body, but attains to earthly memory only if the astral body is able to imprint the perception upon the etheric body. upon death, the etheric (life) bodyseparates for the first time from the physical body and is thus no longer constrained by it. the etheric body, still attached to the astral body and ego, makes available to the ego, through the astral body, perfect perception of the entirety of the life just ended. this perception is not subject to happiness, pain, or the like, but is entirely objective. in this tableau, nothing is lost that made an impression upon the astral body during life. as soon as the etheric body loses the form it had while connected with the physical body during life, this tableau ceases. its duration is equal to the maximum period the person could have gone without sleep while alive (approximately one to three days). at the end of this time, the etheric body dissolves back into the general world ether, but for the soul’s future incarnations an extract is preserved that contains only the “fruit” of the past life.

“there now begins for the soul an essentially different period, the period of breaking its attachment to the physical world” (re, lect. 4). now the astral body and ego alone dwell together. all the soul’s sensual urges and desires are intensely present, but without the physical body’s organs they cannot be satisfied. with respect to these, it is a time of unslakable “burning thirst” (lk 16,24, mk 9,44,48-49 and jn 4,13-14). the soul in the astral world experiences its past life in reverse order. the soul experiences any relationship it had with another being from the viewpoint of the “other” being. thus, in the sermon on the mount, we are told:

so whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the [karmic] law and the prophets. (mt 7,12)

no soul can enter the spiritual world (lower devachan) so long as any earthly appetite, passion, desire or the like remains. this is the time of the “refiner’s fire” (mal 3,2) and, up to a point, may appropriately be considered as the fire of hell. the apocalyptic fire “prepared for the devil and his angels” (mt 25,41,46 and rev 20) is a far distant ultimate spiritual reality, not to be faced until long after the time for the “grace” of reincarnation has expired (see i-2). the soul (ego) can alleviate suffering in the astral world only to the extent that it becomes the master of the astral body’s appetites, passions, desires and the like during life. or, in one’s relationship with any other (or others, including, for instance, all the suffering world, e.g., mt 25,31-46), such alleviation will occur only to the extent the ego acted in relation to such other(s) in accordance with the “golden rule” above (e.g., lk 16,19-31 and 1 jn 3,17-18). fortunately, to the extent that the ego governs its earthly passions, desires, and dealings with others in achristlike manner, the journey through the astral world can be joyful instead of painful. the period in the astral world is approximately one-third that of the past life, but more precisely equals the time spent in sleep during that life.

when the soul has worked backwards in this manner from its old age to its infancy, burning out all unworthy elements, it is now prepared to enter the spiritual world, lower devachan, the “kingdom of heaven” and “a life free from sorrow” (re, lect. 4). when this is understood, a higher meaning of “unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven” (mt 18,3), is revealed.
contrary to a somewhat prevalent perception, the journey between death and rebirth, while in some parts a joyful, rewarding, and reassuring experience, is by no means a time of rest—unless one construes truly constructive work as rest—but is rather one of intense activity and, within limits, perception. a primary purpose of the journey is to reveal to the soul the purpose of its last life in the light of the soul’s accumulated karma, the extent to which it succeeded or failed, and then, compelled by necessity, the urge to return to earth to work in a new personality toward the overcoming of remaining karma.

while the soul works assiduously during its journey between death and rebirth, the only place where its accumulated karma can be balanced is on earth during mineral-physical incarnation. we may aptly analogize the complete cycle by saying that the earth is the soul’s workshop, and the period between lives is spent in the planning or drawing room."

[FooSnik]

can you give me an example of how an unconscious selfish act is creating "debt" and how it needs to be "repaid?"

i mean it seems to me that the idea of repaying debt is a throwback of a deep human feeling of unworthiness, and trying to be pure enough to advance to the next level. but i haven't heard all your thoughts on this issue in more detail yet.

well, i have to agree with you on that. there is a lot of these "feelings of unworthiness" floating around. i guess you have presented a good example of exactly what i mean. this general feeling of unworthiness dominates this planet. then, when you take a body and forget the divine home in which you came, you/we can easily be duped into feeling and entering into this state of unworthiness just like everyone else.

and, if worse comes to worse, we even begin to exhibit the same "every man for himself", "dog eat dog" attitude. now if a wanderer were to commit an atrocity of some sort while here on earth, that atrocity would create a void, like a black hole. and that person would become bound to that void until it is filled back up.

i have heard many stories of people who have committed abusive acts or been in abusive relationships or even committed a murder. and the people who were involved in the scenario would then reincarnate into the same family as brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers to each other. they would experience feelings of anger towards their siblings or parents for unexplained reasons only to find out after past life regression that they had killed the other one in a past life. or felt some sort of powerful negative emotion toward the other in a past life. so they are magnetized to each other in order to correct the void or imbalance that was created.

intense feelings of love can have the same effect. time and time again you can incarnate with your loved one because these intense feelings create a magnetic type effect. so, karma doesn't have to be bad and binding. it can also have a propulsion type effect. when someone honestly wants to see the other fly high and do well then that is what happens. and by the law of karma the same will come back around to that person. if people can manage to live with love and kindness then karma can actually give us wings. it can propel us to fantastic levels that are hard to imagine. so it can work both ways.

these are my thoughts on the matter at the moment. but i am constantly changing my mind as i grow.

does that make sense? what is your philosophy?

foo

[Yusuf]

greetings to you,
firstly i would like to thank mikazo for posting this question.reflecting on your remarks has forced me to revue my present understandings and has really helped in my progress of further understanding.
i make the following comments not expecting you to agree with them but perhaps to act as a catalyst to further your inquiries towards something beneficial to you.
the law of one says that all things are one creator.thus seeking the creator is done not just in meditation but in the experience of every moment.
we go through the incarnation process in order to gain experience and to learn.
in between incarnations we review and re-review the learnings of our previous space/time incarnations.there are helpers who assist in this.
we are students of the life experience. our lessons are learnt through the incarnation process and we continue until all the lessons of the 3rd density have been learnt and we continue through to the next level.
karma is a sanskrit word meaning,"deed or act." you could say it is the total sum of our positive and negative actions in all our past incarnations.
another way of looking at it is the idea that whatever negative or positive energies one sends out will come back to the sender in one way or another.
karma originates in our thoughts. whatever we think becomes a thought form and is being sent out to the universe as our deed.
like attracts like. negative thoughts or actions sent out by you attract negative impulses from around you and you experience unpleasant things. the same applies to positive thoughts.
there is a close link between karma and forgiveness. forgiveness clears bad karma.
forgiveness of others and forgiveness of your self ( one and the same thing) is one of the great lessons to be learnt during our incarnations.
at some point we are given the opportunity to explore the roots of negative influences, to become aware of blocked experiences from your past, the negative thoughts,intentions and deeds. the next big step is then to forgive. forgive yourself, forgive others. to forgive others is to forgive yourself for we are all one with the creator.
in all religions great emphasis is always placed on forgiveness. jesus,for example speaks of it in one way or another again and again.some of his last words were," forgive them father for they know not what they do."
we must learn to forgive.
one other point i would like to make is that, although negative thoughts and actions were originally made in the past, the only reason they have effects now is because the decision is still in force.it is still present in the mind.
no past event lasts unless it is held onto. if it is held onto it really is a present influence. it is a present decision that is producing those effects.

if we want to undo the painful effects that the past seemed to have caused we must change our minds in the present.this change of mind is forgiveness.

i extend my love and forgiveness to you,

yusuf

[Mikazo]

this is a particularly weird subject because everyone seems to have a different idea of what karma is, and to date i haven't seen anyone agree on anything. i also think one must be wary of the myriad theories of karma that are out there, many of them were created out of ignorance and many people just go on repeating them without ever questioning their validity.

the general feeling i have is this: you should not have to repeat anything if you've gotten the message. so if you've learned how to forgive, there should be no reason circumstances should challenge your deficiencies in that area simply because you still have "more karma to balance out," or didn't forgive someone enough in past lives. you've gotten the message, so you've attained balance. why keep repeating grade school? i think the universe is more conscious than this and doesn't really operate this way; it respects you enough to know when you've understood something.

neale donald walsch indicated in one of his books a disagreement with the eastern theories of karma, in which one is on a "treadmill" repaying old debts and trying not to incur new ones, because this is based in the idea that you are trying to become more "pure" in order to spiritually advance to some "next level." it is not rooted in a desire to purify oneself at all as much as it is a feeling of not being worthy enough to be with god. however karma does make sense in that it shows you patterns that tend to repeat, so you can adequately deal with whatever issues may be contained within. maybe in the last fifty lifetimes you didn't forgive someone, so you forgive them finally in this one, just to have that.

some issues that were created in error may in fact be easier to resolve in a 3d sense, so i can see how this would be a possibility.

i don't fully understand all of this myself, and don't feel any pressing need to, however it simply strikes me that many things that are said on this topic across the board are what karma *isn't.*


well, i have to agree with you on that. there is a lot of these "feelings of unworthiness" floating around. i guess you have presented a good example of exactly what i mean. this general feeling of unworthiness dominates this planet. then, when you take a body and forget the divine home in which you came, you/we can easily be duped into feeling and entering into this state of unworthiness just like everyone else.

and, if worse comes to worse, we even begin to exhibit the same "every man for himself", "dog eat dog" attitude. now if a wanderer were to commit an atrocity of some sort while here on earth, that atrocity would create a void, like a black hole. and that person would become bound to that void until it is filled back up.

i have heard many stories of people who have committed abusive acts or been in abusive relationships or even committed a murder. and the people who were involved in the scenario would then reincarnate into the same family as brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers to each other. they would experience feelings of anger towards their siblings or parents for unexplained reasons only to find out after past life regression that they had killed the other one in a past life. or felt some sort of powerful negative emotion toward the other in a past life. so they are magnetized to each other in order to correct the void or imbalance that was created.

intense feelings of love can have the same effect. time and time again you can incarnate with your loved one because these intense feelings create a magnetic type effect. so, karma doesn't have to be bad and binding. it can also have a propulsion type effect. when someone honestly wants to see the other fly high and do well then that is what happens. and by the law of karma the same will come back around to that person. if people can manage to live with love and kindness then karma can actually give us wings. it can propel us to fantastic levels that are hard to imagine. so it can work both ways.

these are my thoughts on the matter at the moment. but i am constantly changing my mind as i grow.

does that make sense? what is your philosophy?

foo

[FooSnik]

this is a particularly weird subject because everyone seems to have a different idea of what karma is, and to date i haven't seen anyone agree on anything. i also think one must be wary of the myriad theories of karma that are out there, many of them were created out of ignorance and many people just go on repeating them without ever questioning their validity.

the general feeling i have is this: you should not have to repeat anything if you've gotten the message. so if you've learned how to forgive, there should be no reason circumstances should challenge your deficiencies in that area simply because you still have "more karma to balance out," or didn't forgive someone enough in past lives. you've gotten the message, so you've attained balance. why keep repeating grade school? i think the universe is more conscious than this and doesn't really operate this way; it respects you enough to know when you've understood something.

some issues that were created in error may in fact be easier to resolve in a 3d sense, so i can see how this would be a possibility.

i don't fully understand all of this myself, and don't feel any pressing need to, however it simply strikes me that many things that are said on this topic across the board are what karma *isn't.*

yeah, i guess to keep things as simple as possible is the best route.

"what goes around, comes around" is enough to say, i think. that much is proven. like melissamouse for example, says that she is very giving and generous with her money by nature and money seems to pop into her pocket as if by magic.

simplicity is best, i suppose.

[Magical_Mongoose]

i understand karma and the idea of karmic debts, etc. relating more to achieving balance within the soul. some actions cause distortions ("bad karma"), whereas others amplify and articulate soul essences ("good karma). so you can choose a whole range of experiences prior to incarnation such as selecting a human body on earth, especially during this period, to rectify these distortions both internally and globally.
you become "locked in" when you're unable to learn a crucial aspect of yourself when the window of opportunity is in place. certain lessons can only be learned at very specific times, so you'd have to basically wait around until the proper catalysts are in place again...the current time being one of those heightened periods where everything is available and potentials endless.

[rockyrojas88]

if reincarnation is true, mankind should be progressing. human nature and conductshould be improving.

the vast majority of the population has no memory of their prior lives. if we’re all aproduct of previous life-cycles, why don’t we remember our previous lives? how can wework off bad karma if we don’t recognize our prior mistakes?

if we are all being recycled, where are all the new babies coming from? there were an estimated 100 million souls a few thousand years ago, but today we’re approaching 7 billion people. reincarnation denies a creator god, so where are all these souls coming from? reincarnation would mean that the first human beings were never created, they were eternal spirits that were never created and will never die. where does the idea that angels are dead people come from? if that were true, then who were the cherubs guarding the tree of life from adam and eve?

india is the cradle of reincarnation, yet india is one of the world’s most woefulnations. though the people are intelligent and industrious, and natural resources abound, cows and rats eat their fill while many humans starve. countless city streets are awash with filth, lined with starving beggars, and suffering is everywhere. with thousands of years to perfect reincarnation, and countless gurus and holy men, why isn’t india theshining star of human progress and spiritual evolution?

gandhi stated that reincarnation is a burden to great to bear. he saw the fruits of thispractice around his country. all abroad was hopelessness and despair

to break free from reincarnation, one must live a harmless life. you can’t even kill amicrobe. yet our immune system kills millions each day. this means there is no hope of ever escaping the wheel of karma.

if you see a beggar wallowing in the gutter don’t you dare help him! he is working off bad karma. if you help him now, he will just have to come back in another lifetime to work off his bad karma again.

if this physical world and all it's pain and pleasure is an illusion and we're trapped in reincarnation until we reach some sort of "enlightenment", does that mean that there is no pain and suffering in the spiritual realm? if it wasn't for the spirit, we wouldn't feel pain wether it were physical or psychological. the physical realm isn't our only problem, it's our spirituality as well.

something to think about...o.o

[FooSnik]

but, i think, mankind is improving. look at women's rights and the african-american civil rights movement. i mean, two of the 3 major front runners for the president of the usa is a black guy and a woman. i think the idea of equality among all humans, no matter what race or gender, is a step in the right direction.

but this is a tricky realm and people have the freedom to make whatever choices they want to make. i have not always made the most perfect choices in my history and i am sure you haven't either.

what is the reason for the veil? i'm sure the answer to that is individual for every human being. every person has their own reason for wanting to come here and forget everything.

i prefer to look at it like this. this is just the way this realm/dimension is. in order to take a body here you have to forget everything. it is part of the package deal. so the question to ask yourself is why did you choose to come to this dimension? to learn something? to teach something? to both teach and learn something at the same time? or just to hang out and check things out?

as for me, i think i had a bunch of reasons for coming. it is a beautiful place. i was probably attracted to the intense love and drama this place is all wrapped up in right now. as cruel, punishing and challenging this place can be sometimes, an equally intense love can be born out of it as well.

something else to think about. :)

foo

[Silvanus Sanctus Germanus]

if you see a beggar wallowing in the gutter don’t you dare help him! he is working off bad karma. if you help him now, he will just have to come back in another lifetime to work off his bad karma again.

that is a sad way of closing yourself off from the world of compassion and understanding. there are several ways to point the way without even laying on stone on another's path. see what i'm saying? it is a great service to others to answer the call of help all the while honoring the entety's free will even perhaps strenghthen it. it's all in the details. we can open our hearts without draining anyones energy. what we have to offer as growth experience (catalyst) is priceless.


the vast majority of the population has no memory of their prior lives. if we’re all aproduct of previous life-cycles, why don’t we remember our previous lives? how can wework off bad karma if we don’t recognize our prior mistakes?

david explains this very well, lessons are thrown at us on a daily basis, if we pay attention to our reality that we project, everything is there. remembering too much of our past lives numbs the lessons and reduces the intensity of understanding, sort of smugging the authenticity of the effort.................sylvain.................... ...

[Mikazo]

yeah, these are all too difficult quandaries with the issue of reincarnation. i don't know who really knows anything about reincarnation adequately, although what sources such as seth say seem to put things in a better perspective.

osho figured that the impoverishment inherent in a lot of the east is because they rejected the material world, and therefore blocked its more beneficial influences.

[mellisamouse]

the way to break free of all karma is simply forgiveness of yourself and all others....anlong with ceasing judgement.

even though i know this simple truth, i have had to re-teach it to myself over and over again in this lifetime....we are progressing slowly, to even know simple truths such as this fimrmly now to start working from these points is a progress away from the rulership of the ego, with the emegence of the spirit...

as for the new souls, if each soul is god experiencing himself in the realative, with many new situations arisies many new experiences, and different perspectives, so souls are there for these experiences...the more here at once to learn, the faster we as a whole can learn, hence the population explosion in this time period.

jmho of course though. ;)

[Silvanus Sanctus Germanus]

if we are all being recycled, where are all the new babies coming from? there were an estimated 100 million souls a few thousand years ago, but today we’re approaching 7 billion people. reincarnation denies a creator god, so where are all these souls coming from? reincarnation would mean that the first human beings were never created, they were eternal spirits that were never created and will never die.

i suspect that there are an infinte number of souls awaiting incarnation in what ever form vibrates to the level the entety is at that moment. meaning that there must have always been enteties waiting for the earth's vibrational frequency to reach a comfortable level throughout the ages. at the same time there will always be enteties lined up to grasp the oportunity to let their light shine.

put it this way, it is quite possible that you spent millions of years advancing to the level you are now. maybe each of us represent countless souls cheering us on in another plane of existance.

reincarnations may also interchange among millions of planets resonating to simular vibrations, so the source of souls may be limitless. i also suspect that a planetary quantum leap may introduce souls to intergalactic passage, from one galaxy to another, who knows?....................sylvain................. .

[rockyrojas88]

the way to break free of all karma is simply forgiveness of yourself and all others....anlong with ceasing judgement.

we are progressing slowly, to even know simple truths such as this fimrmly now to start working from these points is a progress away from the rulership of the ego, with the emegence of the spirit...


jmho of course though. ;)

is there no ego in the spiritual realm that created ego in the physical?

[MarkM]

your ego in this world is that part of yourself which functions in this world. it is a self-awareness which results from your interaction with all that happens here.

your mind is a tool for functioning here, it processes all the imput from the five physical senses, and the personality is largely built from this action. this personality or ego is a temporary thing, developed in this life for this life.

now, when you pass from this plane, you survive, as you are not the ego. you are left with being your soul-essense, and have a greater awareness of your oneness with all life, and the creator. you are still you, but are the greater you; the you that is bigger than one life, and more concerned with processing all things learned while incarnate. you have a continuity of awareness, and remember the life just lived.

now, in the afterlife, you enter into the planning stage with your higher self, which is you millions of years in the future. you plan for the next life - who your parents will be, where and when you will be born - all is arranged to provide you with the optimun chance of learning whatever life lessons are needed at the present stage of development.

being in an incarnation is where real soul-development happens - the afterlife is where you process and integrate these things learned, and plan for the next go-around. here is where you gain spiritually, through all the events (catalyst) that are provided to prompt and forge you into becoming a wiser, more loving and powerful being.

one purpose of the veil of forgetting is to have you take this reality as being real, so when you run into life's lessons, you deal with them as if they are real, and eventually learn to stop fighting life, and learn the lesson of the benefit of love and acceptance of all these conditions, and learning to love all life as if it were yourself.

when you have gone a certain distance down this road, you begin to awaken, or perceive the 'higher' life you have beyond the veil - for to truly have started to learn to live with forgiveness of the mistakes of others, and yourself, and learning to live a life of acceptance of everything, and love and gratitude for everything - knowing everything is only for our benefit, you start to move into a state of being which is above and beyond the 'ego' of one lifetime.

here, the 'sixth', spiritual sense starts to open much more fully, and this is when you are becoming eligible for the ascension.:d

mark

[urakei]

if we are all being recycled, where are all the new babies coming from? there were an estimated 100 million souls a few thousand years ago, but today we’re approaching 7 billion people. reincarnation denies a creator god, so where are all these souls coming from? reincarnation would mean that the first human beings were never created, they were eternal spirits that were never created and will never die. where does the idea that angels are dead people come from?

i think souls came from everywhere. souls that are aware and want to learn.

it may came from,
1. higher density that purposely want to lower their vibration to learn or to teach.
2. wanderers, ets from another planets that is curious and benevolent with this planet's life.
3. reincarnated 3ds that have not completed their lessons, (atlanteans, lemurians, mars, etc)
4. animals/plants (2d entities) that had become aware and want to experience as human.

since this planet has become popular, no wonder there's so many interested
souls that wants to experience the life on earth, also animals and plants mostly pets that had learned from the humans and wanted to experience themselves, life as a human. there's also guardians (whoever there are) that somehow protected this planet from outside influence to maintain the confusion, hence more fluctuations in the experience. faster growth.

so where do we all come from we might ask? thought from the creator that manifested itself. from simple 1d i believe. then slowly evolved to 2d and higher. but the more the higher density that helps the lower density to evolve, the faster the evolution becomes. it's an exponential rate. like what we have now.

without the veil i'm sure it's no fun/less interesting living here. i take it as a computer game. if you put the cheat code on (i.e god mode) or read the walkthrough and know secrets and the ending, it'd be no fun playing it.

i think rather than following what others had ruled out (bad karma, sins etc). why not create your own rule and live and experience with it? i think it's more fun. we are the fragments of the creator after all. we have the capability to create. :d :d :p

just my 2 cents. cheers!

[johnasmodeus]

i think that most of your questions will be resolved if you study more about the various philosophies that take reincarnation as a given. a number of your theses are mistaken, or simply incredible leaps of logic. for example:


if reincarnation is true, mankind should be progressing. human nature and conductshould be improving.

this doesn't work as a proof for reincarnation. existence of reincarnation does not make improvement inevitable any more than non-existence. even if it did, how do you judge something as nebulous as human nature and conduct to be improving or regressing? i can think of ten ways we have improved, and ten ways we have regressed, and then immediately falsify both result sets by changing the time frame.


the vast majority of the population has no memory of their prior lives. if we’re all aproduct of previous life-cycles, why don’t we remember our previous lives? how can wework off bad karma if we don’t recognize our prior mistakes?

all good questions, and i encourage you to look into them. but none of them negate the possibility of reincarnation.


reincarnation denies a creator god, so where are all these souls coming from?

reincarnation most certainly does not deny a creator god.


india is the cradle of reincarnation, yet india is one of the world’s most woefulnations. though the people are intelligent and industrious, and natural resources abound, cows and rats eat their fill while many humans starve. countless city streets are awash with filth, lined with starving beggars, and suffering is everywhere. with thousands of years to perfect reincarnation, and countless gurus and holy men, why isn’t india theshining star of human progress and spiritual evolution?

britain. but my purposely glib answer doesn't address the real issue here: whether reincarnation exists or not, it's not something that occurs within limited national boundaries, any more than god would be. if it's true for an indian, it's true for the chinese, the americans, and everyone else.


to break free from reincarnation, one must live a harmless life. you can’t even kill amicrobe. yet our immune system kills millions each day. this means there is no hope of ever escaping the wheel of karma.

this is very close to what the jains believed. the buddha was a very outspoken critic of the jains, if i remember correctly. but he still embraced the idea of reincarnation, having remembered his past lives under the bodhi tree. in any case, this is another overly broad logical leap. i could do the same and disprove anything you like. watch: if the sky is blue, then that must mean that the sky is made out of water. but if the sky were made out of water, the fish would fall out and drop on us. since fish do not fall from the sky (except on odd occasions which can very easily be explained away by witchcraft), then the sky must not be blue.

[Yusuf]

greetings to you,
concerning th veil of forgetfullness, ra says that the veil makes you forget your true identity and purpose.
1 ra,"this is the only place of forgetting. it is necessary for the 3rd density entity to forget what it really is so that the mechanisms of confusion or free will (emphasis added)may operate upon the newly individuated consciousness complex." (book 1)
2 ra,"without the veil, the mind was not caught up in your illusory time"(book4)
the veil also splits the mind into conscious and unconscious parts.
(more can be found in the law of one study guide)

peace and love to you,

yusuf