What are the pitfalls of the Ra Material?

[Billuminous]

ra has confessed that their group has intervened with human affairs before with unintended/poor results. the egypt episode comes to mind.

so perhaps some unintended/undesired consequences have also emerged this time around. if so, what possible problems can you identify?

as for me, i might surmise that a lot of people have accepted the ra material material as their higher authority, and thusly, have a hard time seeing the world outside the mental paradigm set up by ra. their minds have become boxed in and they have a hard time allowing information that may contradict ra. they have become sto robots, trying as hard as possible to serve others when if fact they are only ambitious to gain entry into sto 4d. or else, they have determined they are 6d wanderer, and they lord their infinite wisdom over anybody who dares to question them. :eek:

thoughts???

[Silvanus Sanctus Germanus]

well the first pitfall, in my mind, is when an entety assumes that a specific unchalengeable message has been delivered by ra. this could not be further from the truth. the law of confusion is clearly stated and it is up to us to practice discernment on every level.;) remember ra has benefited from growth just as much as we if not more. we are all on the same celestial boat:) ........sylvain........

[Silvanus Sanctus Germanus]

or else, they have determined they are 6d wanderer, and they lord their infinite wisdom over anybody who dares to question them. :eek: thoughts???

i would like to sincerely appologise in advance for anyone comming accross as (lording their infinite wisdom) to anyone offended in anyway. it is definetly not the intentions of most of us, i'm sure. i suspect that some of us like me have been longing for so long to express our true-selves that we sometimes come accross as a little aggressive to say the least. some of us have been muzzled by any means practicaly from birth and have been struggling with being told to shut up, or keep that stuff to yourself, or stop thinking, or stop analising, or this is the way, or where'd you here that one, or your totally wrong. yes the ego bears most of the blunt, but through it's demise we pave the way for higher understanding.........sylvain...........

[Billuminous]

was is it necessary for ra to say that we will all experience a physical death sometime between now and 2012? is this an infringement on our free will? how much have your plans been affected by your belief that you will be dying into 4d or wanderland in the near future? how exactly do you explain this news to the children (if you have any)? speaking of children...perhaps your children won't be joining you on your trip to other side of the veil because they are not wanderers like you. :(

[Mikazo]

you can turn anything into a cult. david was talking about "the secret" in one of his blog entries (with a rather negative view) expounding on several groups who had taken philosophies of manifestation and abundance and infecting it with very noticeable cult-like thought. the exact same thing can happen with any ra material, especially because of the numerous distinctions and emphases being placed on sts vs. sto, which makes the series very fertile ground for cult-like behavior.

[SuperManny]

i truly don't believe that there are any pitfalls for any serious student of ra. if you study the material thoroughly you will notice that you are repeatedly cautioned against accepting anything that does not resonate with you. not only that, but the ra even pointed out their weaknesses, i.e. "not good with numbers", etc.

the only pitfalls i could envision is if someone not entirely familiar with the ra material would read a sentence or a paragraph and interpret it completely out of context, because of not being with the rest of their teachings. it was for this very reason that my friend bob childers wrote the study guide.

you may be intimidated by reading the entire 5 books of the ra material, but there is no good reason why you couldn't read the few pages of the study guide, and familiarize yourself with at least the basic concepts.

[transiten]

hi!

i strongly can identify with both of your posts. i sometimes wish i never came across this material and all the same so much resonate with my own expeiences, like someone said in another thread.

i have noone close to me that i can discuss this with and i'm in some kind of lifecrisis. i don't like the scenario of not being able to manifest what i've been longing for so long here on earth, thinking that in 4 years everything will be gone anyway...not a healthy approach. i actually feel trapped at the moment and should i seek councelling from a therapist this would be considered as mental/emotional disorder.

spring is bursting outside my window, the blackbird is singing into the lightblue eveningsky, i'm slowly recovering from a flue...at the moment i just want to meet a loving man, get my life going and earn my living as singer/musiscian/voiceliberationcoach/astrologer as i used to, before my "horrorscope" manifested it's dark side. i'm sick and tired of being a "searcher" at the moment and all the same i can't refrain from continuing.....

welcome to paradox liliane

[Silvanus Sanctus Germanus]

was is it necessary for ra to say that we will all experience a physical death sometime between now and 2012? is this an infringement on our free will? how much have your plans been affected by your belief that you will be dying into 4d or wanderland in the near future? how exactly do you explain this news to the children (if you have any)? speaking of children...perhaps your children won't be joining you on your trip to other side of the veil because they are not wanderers like you. :(

knowing that attachements are related to feelings of seperation, myself i trust that the rest of humanity will slowly "adopt" each other and unite in oneness all beings. this includes releasing loved ones into the arms of infinity.

i also tend to point out to my children that "life" is not about to "die" life is. people tend to look at "death" as the opposite of life. try explaining to your children that "death" is simply the opposite of "birth" and that "life" goes on, in order to make room for a "birth" of a "higher-self or more loving existance" that we may choose to stop and "change our clothes" before embarking on such a prosperous journey..............sylvain.............

[Billuminous]

you can turn anything into a cult. david was talking about "the secret" in one of his blog entries (with a rather negative view) expounding on several groups who had taken philosophies of manifestation and abundance and infecting it with very noticeable cult-like thought. the exact same thing can happen with any ra material, especially because of the numerous distinctions and emphases being placed on sts vs. sto, which makes the series very fertile ground for cult-like behavior.

i'm familiar with at least one internet-based cult that seems to be based partly on the ra material but then adds the nibiru thing. throughout the vast body of channeled information the leader of the website never once (as far as i know) references the ra material but she does mention one author whose teachings are strongly rooted in the material. from what i remember, the leader has attended a lecture of this author and has great admiration for him.

i say it is cult because it meets my criteria for a cult, being mainly that it fosters dependency from its followers as there is only one person who has all the answers and those answers will guide you to a life in the 4d sto society after the predicted pole shift. as long as you are "cool" with the whole program, you will receive personal assistance from 4d aliens during the pole shift. here we have one person who is essentially creating reality for everybody else, being very resistant to co-creation and the whole of humanity's longings.

as for me, i welcome any attempts to twist the ra material into some kind of cult as it creates ample opportunities for discernment and personal growth. during the course of my life i have delved deeply into thought paradigms of every sort, and experienced much confusion as a result, but have probably emerged much stronger for it.

the ra material stands on its own, and it is really up to the individual to do what he/she wants to do with it. like any other portal of spiritual exploration (e.g. psychedelic drugs), it can be abused by the immature.

the part i find most challenging about the ra material is the admission that we will all being experiencing a physical death in the near future. having such knowledge makes it awfully hard to plan for the future and build intimate relationships unless you are able to keep it all a secret, but keeping secrets doesn't seem fitting for an sto. (hmmm..but maybe that secrecy in intentionally being fostered by ra so as avert widespread panic)

i often wonder whether or not ra could have omitted the part about death. when asked about this, what if ra had said that they were withholding that information because it would be considered an infringement of free will? what would have been the effect of such an omission on the entirety of the ra material...would it still feel complete? would people feel betrayed in the end if the part about death was omitted? certainly, ra's group would have deliberated extensively about the usefulness/pertinence of such information. :confused:

[DJDeeZe]

[quote=billuminous;31314]was is it necessary for ra to say that we will all experience a physical death sometime between now and 2012?

while i completely agree with the law of one philosophy regarding how to live our lives and so forth, based on my own research, i don't agree or feel that we will all experience "death" as it is now known.

there is much evidence from various sources including the bible indicating that those living at the time of the shift will simply "change".

1st corinthians 15: 50-52 niv version

50-"i declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of god, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

51-15 listen, i tell you a mystery: we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed- in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the 1st trumpet. for the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed."

blessings,
(:-deeze

[transiten]

hi again

well i really fell into a pit, if not the "ra-one"...i rather feel like rebelling against it...was brooding over my destiny while taking a dog-walk, cursing it even, not feeling like an able student of the ra-material....suddenly i stumbled over a little elflike plasticfigure holding a "sugarcan", as i first saw it...it was a lantern with a little red spotlight one can turn on....shortly after i met a woman who has great healthproblems, interested in spirituality....i felt my situation was "peanusts" compared to hers....

suddenly things just stared to work again, i made up my mind to cancel a trip, ordereda book that i had been unable to find, etc etc, and my spirits just soared upwards:)

hur-ra-h for the third time here on this forum

liliane in paradox

[Billuminous]

[quote=billuminous;31314]was is it necessary for ra to say that we will all experience a physical death sometime between now and 2012?

while i completely agree with the law of one philosophy regarding how to live our lives and so forth, based on my own research, i don't agree or feel that we will all experience "death" as it is now known.

there is much evidence from various sources including the bible indicating that those living at the time of the shift will simply "change".

(:-deeze


well, if we are going to go through some kind of change that doesn't involve death, lets hope it happens before gas prices and food prices become totally unmanageable because those things (along with other things) directly affect our ability to maintain our 3d physical body. even i, having lots of experience growing food, feel a bit rattled by the rapidity of the changes happening right now. if you are tuned to global news, you are aware that food riots have started in a lot of countries...

[Art]

billuminous,

you have two questions on this thread - i'll try to answer both from my perspective.


so perhaps some unintended/undesired consequences have also emerged this time around. if so, what possible problems can you identify?

while i can understand your statement and perspective on this, i do not necessarily share those views. my response would only echo previous responses from silvanus and manny.


was is it necessary for ra to say that we will all experience a physical death sometime between now and 2012? is this an infringement on our free will? how much have your plans been affected by your belief that you will be dying into 4d or wanderland in the near future? how exactly do you explain this news to the children (if you have any)? speaking of children...perhaps your children won't be joining you on your trip to other side of the veil because they are not wanderers like you.

my take on this was to "shock" us into an understanding of ourselves beyond our current reality. each and every one of us are far more than the simple meat machines we call our bodies.

as for plans... well, i'd have to say yes and no. the event circa 2012 may happen before, on, or well after 12/21/2012. however, to me anyway, the date isn't important. what is important is what i feel deep inside myself - this reunion and rememberance of who i really am. the miracles are happening now, its simply a matter of perspective. wanderer? for me, probably not. i'd like to think that those i love dearly in the here and now will be with me on the other side, but thats not for me to decide - to each his/her own.

i must apologize for the lack of details in this response - short on time.

to summarize my perception of this thread - this forum isn't a cult - no one is calling the shots and i'd like to think, that while the foundation for this forum is the law of one, that we operate on an integrative approach - integrating new (and old) ideas as we co-create a new paradigm.

humbly yours,

art

[Liam]

i'm not sure if the idea of physical death being necessary for transformation to 4th density is mentioned on more than one occasion in the law of one but from what i remember ra suggested that the body will die 'according to 3rd density necessities' which i interpreted to mean that the the composition of the body will be changed by the switch to 4th density. the nature of the 4th density body will be completely different as we will no longer require many of the functions that we currently require for survival in 3rd density. my take on it is that the body may appear the same as it did in 3d but its make up will be completely different, hence the idea that it will die 'according to 3d necessities'. it might also be worth remembering that the concept of 'death' and the fear of it is a 3d creation and that entities in higher dimensions are likely to hold a completely different view on the idea of death. after all, what we see as death is by no means the end, but actually a new beginning. maybe ra was expressing the fact that this will be just that, a new beginning. as others have said though, the law of confusion is adhered to throughout so this is all open to interpretation, i just thought i would throw my views into the mix!

[Billuminous]

one thing about the ra material which confuses me is the statement about how they do not concern themselves with the nature of the earth changes.

obviously, it makes a big difference whether or not humanity perceives the earth changes as self-inflicted (as in the case of runaway anthropogenic global warming) or induced by an external agency (as in the case of the passage of nibiru). in the first case, such earth changes foster an awareness about how one's individual actions influence the health of the surrounding environment, but in the second case one is left to believe that humans have absolutely no control over their own destiny so they might as well pollute to high heaven. the first scenario fosters action, accountability and self-reflection while the second case leads to apathy, fear and surrendering one's power to a higher authority.

i understand that runaway climate change caused by human activity is an event that is larger than one person can influence through their individual actions, however i believe the idea of agw is symbolic of the truth that humans control their own destiny through the action of free-will. if you understand the science behind global warming you understand that humans have (or had) the capacity to reverse the effects of global warming if they would join hands and cooperate in sto fashion. given the soul demographics of the human population, this kind of cooperation may be impossible, but at least we are allowed the opportunity to see the fruits of our collective action. and despite the global outcome, all our individual actions towards ameliorating the situation still contribute to our personal karma/outcome.

on the other hand, if nibiru had come blazing through our solar system and caused all kinds of earth changes before the effects of greed-motivated industrial capitalism had taken their toll on our planet, then the lessons to be learned would be much fewer. the appearance of nibiru would have confused a lot of people and caused people to question the whole concept of free-will.

i remember ra saying that the love that you radiate into the world is more important than any principles of right livelihood that you may advocate. i essentially agree with this. however, the entire environmental movement is really based upon love as in respecting and honoring all forms of consciousness on this planet, and recognizing our interdependence with these other consciousnesses. if we don't sustain those lower life forms, they won't sustain us. a single-minded focus on developing human consciousness without recognizing the whole of consciousness results in death.

i'm guessing ra would concur with the above statement. to co's* credit, ra was wise not to give people prescriptions for how to live their life as this would certainly infringe on free will and create an unnecessary degree of authority.

*co is a gender neutral term which means he or she. this word is used extensively at a commune i used to live at which practices gender equality.

[Billuminous]

i'm not sure if the idea of physical death being necessary for transformation to 4th density is mentioned on more than one occasion in the law of one but from what i remember ra suggested that the body will die 'according to 3rd density necessities' which i interpreted to mean that the the composition of the body will be changed by the switch to 4th density. the nature of the 4th density body will be completely different as we will no longer require many of the functions that we currently require for survival in 3rd density. my take on it is that the body may appear the same as it did in 3d but its make up will be completely different, hence the idea that it will die 'according to 3d necessities'. it might also be worth remembering that the concept of 'death' and the fear of it is a 3d creation and that entities in higher dimensions are likely to hold a completely different view on the idea of death. after all, what we see as death is by no means the end, but actually a new beginning. maybe ra was expressing the fact that this will be just that, a new beginning. as others have said though, the law of confusion is adhered to throughout so this is all open to interpretation, i just thought i would throw my views into the mix!

category: harvest

63.18 questioner: now as this transition continues into fourth-density activation, in order to inhabit this fourth-density sphere it will be necessary for all third-density physical bodies to go through the process which we refer to as death. is this correct?
ra: i am ra. this is correct.

i think ra would have used another word like "metamorphosis" if ra had intended a meaning other than what humans associate with the word "death". 99.99% of humans will agree that the word "death" means a cessation of bodily functions.

and yes, death as humans understand it, is nothing to fear.

[mellisamouse]

i also think this will be a "death' of the way things are....a "death" of our old self....

i feel we are already in that proccess of "changing" (at full speed about now), and at that time our "change/death" will be complete....

it will finally be time to celebrate!

don't worry, plan your future, dream your dreams, it will not be a waste in my opinion......

i also feel like a whole deal of the worst is over for most, except for the crisis here and there and in personal lives just intended to wake people up and get them firmly planted on their chosen paths etc.

again, this is just my opinion though. ;)

[transiten]

great and necessary post! keep it up!

liliane

[soup]

...*co is a gender neutral term which means he or she. this word is used extensively at a commune i used to live at which practices gender equality...


something about a sense of "gender equality" seems an oxymoron. possibly its the sense that there's intrinsic trade-offs related to gender and hormones. certainly there seems modes of living that can appear as predominantly asexual or neutral gender in which there's a sort of hormone preoccupation going on in so many unspoken terms...

personally, i prefer pairing with a mate and making peace with the hormones in a way which allows for gender equality without hormone preoccupation.


soup

[twva]

was is it necessary for ra to say that we will all experience a physical death sometime between now and 2012? is this an infringement on our free will? how much have your plans been affected by your belief that you will be dying into 4d or wanderland in the near future? how exactly do you explain this news to the children (if you have any)? speaking of children...perhaps your children won't be joining you on your trip to other side of the veil because they are not wanderers like you. :(


questioner: now as this transition continues into fourth-density activation, in order to inhabit this fourth-density sphere it will be necessary for all third-density physical bodies to go through the process which we refer to as death. is this correct?
ra: i am ra. this is correct.


i agree that ra said third-density bodies will die before the full emergence of fourth density, but i think the timing is not as definite as you suggest. as far as i know, ra never mentions the year 2012, though they do say that the inconveniences will last for approximately 30 years from 1981.

maybe the death of third-density bodies occurs during the 100-700 year transition period and not during the 30 years of inconveniences.

[Steven]

it's awfully easy to focus on specific dates as the time when things are done. it takes little effort to do this. the loo actually teaches me how problems are solved via love rather than hate and gives me a direct roadmap. the concept of fighting hate with love is so earth shattering to me and is so contra to what i was indoctrinated into on this planet that it feels like a personal breakthrough (having access to this information which resonates as truth).

greater than any date is the opportunity we have been given to work out our distortions through various catalyst via the loo roadmap for the time that we have remaining. this is something most of us have sensed as truth but have never really known why. the ra material doesn't fit into our western culture as reincarnation and overcomming difficulty in this life seems like heresay. the prizes in western culture are climbing the ladder of orion indoctrinated slavery. moreover, since none of us know the absolute criteria for harvest (save the 51%/5% service to others for pos/neg graduation), we all get to keep striving to remove the distortions for the time that we have remaining.

i just thank the confederation for this information more than anything else. it has shown me how to find the truth and doesn't require channeling through anybody else. moreover, it is direct spiritual application which involves frequent feedback and gives me a better understanding of why things are happening in my life, and where i am unbalanced.

[Chris Hamilton]

a reminder to our posters that this is the subject of this thread, and posts will be redirected if not kept to the 'pitfalls' subject. thank you, chris

[soup]

...so perhaps some unintended/undesired consequences have also emerged this time around. if so, what possible problems can you identify?...


violence and the consequences that come of it may be associated with the term "pitfall", due to the severe nature of imbalance and rapid change that can seem to come by way of something violent happening.


there may be associations of violence to ra which may be considered "pitfalls" which may be misunderstood. the ra materials became available as a result of nonviolent efforts. part of their message seems that of "not infringing upon freewill." it may be that in the big picture, violent choice is a legitimate choice.

so it may be that the associations of violence or "pitfalls" to ra were actually a consequence of human choice. it may be that because one of ra's high priorities is "not to infringe" that there seems some sense that ra doen't intervene at points where crisis has been freewill chosen.

the ra materials seem to contain much encouragement toward the cultivation of harmony and nonviolent ways of living. my impression is that any pitfalls seem to be to a greater extent a consequence of freewill choice.


soup

[realization]

;) i totally agree with you that if you look in the bible you will feel and know that his word tells all..

1st corinthians 15-51-

god explains how we will not all perish or "sleep" meaning die.like how the jehovah witnesses beleive we don't go to heaven we just sleep when we die and we wait to be ressurected. and that the earth will not be destroyed we will have our golden age!

i think they are right on that one! but i don't know about the whole coming door to door to my house annoying me and pushing their religion on me...

anyways, keep it up people who put the verses of the bible..

i don't know if many of you have watched or read "jz. knights' stuff..
now she beleives she's talking to ramtha too! and that the "ten commandments" was only meant to be a conspiracy of god. because he said to us to "go and be him and experience him through ourselves.

but she also talks about how the ten commandments are not expected to be followed, that it is when we truely experience these things and have learned and gained wisdom from them that we can truely understand god's reasoning..

i get that..i mean once you screw your neighbours wife and lye and cheat and steal you really don't feel as if it was worth committing these sins..like god oviously told us not to do these things for a reason because we would hate ourselves for them and feel pain and dissapointment..

anyways everyone keep it up!! we will not all dissapear! or die physically but we will all change for the better! and if anyone we love does die don't be afraid because christ will ressurect them and they will see us again..

[loveisthekey]

i too felt a little freaked out when i first read that, but, upon re-reading it and reflection, i realized that ra's idea of 'death' is not quite the same as ours.

i think it's important to keep that 'death' quote in the proper context. as i recall, ra said it would be a death to the 3rd density vehicle!

and why wouldn't the 3d vehicle die? but that does not mean that we die; it may mean that we just vibrate to 4d. i don't think it necessarily means a loss of consciousness, as in normal physical death.

the more recent q'uo channelings say that some will stay on earth to help her heal. also, that all the densities are already manifest; it's just a matter of which one we are in 'phase' with. like tuning a radio.

q'uo has also stated that many children are both 3d and 4d activated. if we were all going to go 'poof' then why are these children incarnating?

i think it's important to not get caught up in the fear, as if the world were going to end. the world is going 4d, not ending! the question is only whether we are going 4d with her.

i think a lot of people are getting all worked up and living in fear and that is the exact opposite of what ra wanted to accomplish.

[charles obscure]

as i try to discern a reasonable picture of what the coming shift may be about, and incorporate ra’s idea of the various dimensions that i’ve read about in the loo, i am baffled by the contradictions.

many years ago i read the seth material, and though it has been awhile, i don’t recall mention of higher dimensional polarity as an all-or-none experience. ra appears to believe this is the case with the 4d+ versus 4d- (and 5d+/-) densities. he goes on to say that very few go to 4d-, and likewise few will go to 4d+ (he uses the term “harvested”, which brings to mind stalks of corn, or some sci-fi human-picking. i know it’s just semantics, but there’s got to be a less distasteful word.) he occasionally refers to 3d- or 6d-, then later contradicts that possibility. ra: “the 6th density negative entity is extremely wise.”

he implies one is drawn to positive or negative b/c “some love the light” and “some love the darkness”. although later he goes on to say that both draw on the light, and that “the ability to love, accept and use a certain intensity of light, this creates the requirement for both positive and negative 4th to 5th density harvesting.” (b2, 113)

so, i interpret that light/love is present and necessary in both + and -. he also refers to negative 4th and 5th density beings as “light beings”. and he says that upward spiraling light is “always calling one to move upward from one density to another, higher density.” with all this light, how can they be negative?

then there’s all this “criteria” stuff. to move “up” to 4d- you’ve gotta be 95% service-to-self. 4d+ only requires 51% service-to-others. ok, kinda arbitrary, very exclusionary. and how would you judge a 2-year old? service to self is necessary for children to survive to adulthood. i’ve seen amazing transformations in ppl who were self-centered brats as kids then grew into selfless compassionate adults.

common sense tells me that both love of self and love of others is important, and is the same thing, as “we are all one.” and lots of ppl are drawn to both positive and negative polarities. ra even stresses the importance of balance, then contradicts himself by insisting polarity is a requirement of 4th density.

he says 4d- beings can switch to 4d+, but oddly it is not the desire to experience the positive, but the recapitulation of service to self “in order to build up enough polarity in order to cause the potential to occur for reversal of polarization.” so repetition of service to self, making your polarity even more negative, allows one to go positive??

ra admits that his knowledge is limited and narrow, and answers one question with, “this concept is incorrect as is any concept of the one intelligent infinity.” (b2, 10-11)

while i believe in the probably of an evolution of consciousness, i rather prefer seth’s (and others) take on the nature of reality, the idea of simultaneity of multi-dimensional experiences, both physical and non-physical, with consciousness blinking in and out, or switching focus, as the entity explores an infinity of realities in the love/light of oneness.

i gave ra's loo my best shot, just isn’t for me…

i am going to try and address these points one at a time because i think they are all worthy of commenting on -

1) you dont like the word 'harvest' - this reflects a personal bias or distortion, and is not a contradiction in anyway or an objective pitfall of the actual ra material.

2)ra occasionally refers to 3d negative? - no he doesnt.

3)you say he 'refers to 3d or 6d negative, but then discounts the possibility (?) by saying a 6th density negative entity is extremely wise?' first off this doesnt make sense. it is not a contradiction and your two points dont even seem related to each other. secondly, there is admittedly some errors with numbers in the ra material. if you had read the material closely you would realize there is no such thing as a 6d negative entity, because in 6d the polarities are reconciled. so you referenced two things that actually according to the ra material dont exist - 3d negative and 6d negative.

4)the apparent paradox of some love the light some love the darkness.

-again, this seeming paradox, isn't really a contradiction as according to the loo - all matter is made up of light, there is not matter outside of light. the difference is the negative entity pulls that light in towards itself creating 'darkness', where the positive entity radiates light outwards. so both use the light as there is nothing in the material that is not light. so negative light workers are still light workers.

5)no offense but your concern about the criteria percentage in terms of a two year old seems quite short sighted. are you making the assumption most people live one 3d incarnate experience and then graduate? do you think a two year old would have gained sufficient wisdom or experience either way to be harvestable? are you forgetting the ra material states an optimal lifespan for human beings is 900 years? all the self centred brats and compassionate loving people are one, and will end up in the same destination.

6)ra stresses balance and then stresses polarity is essential in harvestability.

- balance is a key issue for both positive and negative adepts, without some degree of balance one will not be able to sustain higher levels of the love/light. there is a difference between balancing ones thoughts and actions, and choosing a path of polarity, or how one seeks to express the love of the creator.

7)i dont believe your point about the reversal of polarities is at all accurate, and you will have to back that up with a relevant quote from the text. (preferrably the actual texts, as ive noticed some errors in the study guides).

8)you suggest ra's understanding of the one creator is limited and back it up with the quote about any concept of intelligent infinity being innacurate. guess what? this is 100% on the mark, and if any spiritual teacher tries to explain or define to you precisely in words what intelligent infinity is, they are false teachers and profaning truth.

finally, if you think most advanced spiritual material doesnt contain seeming paradoxes, you arent well read. you will find these seeming paradoxes everywhere as it is said - 'the truth appeareth paradox' - lao tzu. the concepts described in ra are very deep, and therefore come across as crude when put into words. a true understanding can only be found within.

[transiten]

hello karen and mods

is is possible for the mods to ask david if he would comment on this?

liliane

[David Wilcock]

everything under discussion here is routinely discussed in things such as the latest project camelot video, radio shows, et cetera. i hit the nail squarely on the head in the "futuretalk" video, for example.

- david

[Chris Hamilton]

hello transiten,

i was going to say that we have many ra scholar's here who can comment, but dw beat me to it with his comment;) . chris

[transiten]

hi david and chris...thanks for quick responses

i more precisely meant the post from karen and the "contradictions" she mentions, but that's perhaps what david and you mean also...i'm going to read the loo and watch "futuretalk" again, the latter which i found very "including" and open to further discussion and polarization. liliane

[Silvanus Sanctus Germanus]

as i try to discern a reasonable picture of what the coming shift may be about, and incorporate ra’s idea of the various dimensions that i’ve read about in the loo, i am baffled by the contradictions.

hi karen, thank you very much for all that "catalyst":d you have brought up some interesting interpretation from the loo. as i'm sure you are aware, ra repeatedly refrains from aswering questions which would infringe upon the free will of mankind here on earth, at this juncture. because of this, you will notice a bit of vagueness occasionally and even perhaps some apparent missleading information, although very rare, you must understand that ra is far from being perfect, they have made mistakes in the past and surely will again. they need to constantly bite their tongue, vigilantly screenning answers and statements.


he occasionally refers to 3d- or 6d-, then later contradicts that possibility. ra: “the 6th density negative entity is extremely wise.”

this is a bit confusing, but here's my take. i suspect that the -6d entety is supported by his existance as a negative entety in previous or lower densities. remember that time is somewhat of an illusion, as long as an entety is negative in 3d he/she has the potential of contacting it's higher -6d self. i believe this is one of those exceptions where we need to read between the lines. when a negative being is later intrusted with the gift of "time travel" so to speak, he/she has the opportunity to go back and have a change of heart, maybe switch to positive and therefore ending the existance of the -6d potential.


he implies one is drawn to positive or negative b/c “some love the light” and “some love the darkness”. although later he goes on to say that both draw on the light, and that “the ability to love, accept and use a certain intensity of light, this creates the requirement for both positive and negative 4th to 5th density harvesting.” (b2, 113)

here's my interpretation. when an entity loves the light, he/she generaly is refering to conditional love which is pure wisdom. on the other hand, when an entity loves the dark, this darkness is generaly refered to as the pure white light of knowledge which is darkened by the absence of wisdom. so you see, they are both "light", both come from the same source.


so, i interpret that light/love is present and necessary in both + and -. he also refers to negative 4th and 5th density beings as “light beings”. and he says that upward spiraling light is “always calling one to move upward from one density to another, higher density.” with all this light, how can they be negative?

you can almost compare it to a black hole which asbsorbs it's own light. i think that dedicated negative enteties overwhelm themselves with too much light, without the wisdom to pace themselves, they barely take a millisecond to notice the "love" permeating all. how sad:(


then there’s all this “criteria” stuff. to move “up” to 4d- you’ve gotta be 95% service-to-self. 4d+ only requires 51% service-to-others. ok, kinda arbitrary, very exclusionary. and how would you judge a 2-year old? service to self is necessary for children to survive to adulthood. i’ve seen amazing transformations in ppl who were self-centered brats as kids then grew into selfless compassionate adults.

goes to show the doubling effect of "love", meannig that you need to be twice as dedicated as a neg towards manipulations ect........as you actualy need to love in the case of a pos. although some prefer to love a little more than 51% of the time but amasingly that is all that is required. as a neg though, the weak energy received from service to self require almost 100% attention at all times. because this means that not only must he/she be in the constant lookout for opportunity, he/she must also avoid almost at all cost, the expression or influence of love, bummer:d . so you see how much harder it is for negs?


common sense tells me that both love of self and love of others is important, and is the same thing, as “we are all one.” and lots of ppl are drawn to both positive and negative polarities. ra even stresses the importance of balance, then contradicts himself by insisting polarity is a requirement of 4th density.

this is a common misperception. the balance that ra talks about is not necessarely positive and negative, the balance is in polarisation among our chakras, the resonance between them and the overall vibration of the whole. whether you are positively or negatively oriented is another matter all together.


he says 4d- beings can switch to 4d+, but oddly it is not the desire to experience the positive, but the recapitulation of service to self “in order to build up enough polarity in order to cause the potential to occur for reversal of polarization.” so repetition of service to self, making your polarity even more negative, allows one to go positive??

again this requires comute with his/her -6d self, plus the entety pays the price by having to reppel soooooooo much "love" in other words finish what you started in order to learn deeply where your weakness is, or hesitance.


ra admits that his knowledge is limited and narrow, and answers one question with, “this concept is incorrect as is any concept of the one intelligent infinity.” (b2, 10-11)

the problem here is with the word "concept". it require you to put into words the infinite creator, it forces you to perceive it in this way or that. most of us know that you can talk all you want about the subject, you try to describe it as mush as you can and you still feel like you have not done it justice. hard to explain, the source of all......................


while i believe in the probably of an evolution of consciousness, i rather prefer seth’s (and others) take on the nature of reality, the idea of simultaneity of multi-dimensional experiences, both physical and non-physical, with consciousness blinking in and out, or switching focus, as the entity explores an infinity of realities in the love/light of oneness.

this definately sounds like a possible reality in the next density if not then the one after that. totally in line with the loo


i gave ra's loo my best shot, just isn’t for me…

at least you gave it a legitimate shot, i respect your views, as we try all views. i wish you the best on your journey, you are welcome here anytime:)........sylvain..........

through the brothers and sisters of sorrow, may the light shine !!!

[Silvanus Sanctus Germanus]

i noticed that karen refered to ra as he, just for the record, ra is a combination of countless souls, a whole planet's worth, fused together...........sylvain..........

[litllady]

silver-i like your understanding of the loo. i thank you for your time in answering karens questions, i was waiting for someone to give a whirl at it.

i noticed you caught on to karen referring to ra as 'he' and that you went on to explain ra is a soul group. i wonder though, wouldnt there be a reason that the soul group chose ra to be the name of their group. could ra be like a lordship or something. we see that many text, not just the bible, talk about levels of creations, such as the cherubs, thrones, wheels, angles, archangels, elders ( i do remember reading this morning about ra mentioning 24 elders, which the bible and gnostics talk about also).is there a link here, could this ra soul group fit into one of these levels? to me, if the soul group is coming through as ra, then mabey every single one of those souls was once ra. im so confused. i know some of you dont think its right to try to tie ra into what old text of different times teach, but we know there are levels.

i guess i need to study if ra talks about angles. im curious of how many people that feel right with the ra channel beleive in angles.

i have read alot of the law of one and some of the latter times, its hard to follow to me.

[Silvanus Sanctus Germanus]

yes, ra is one of many, part of the confederation, which humbly got through to us. i suspect there are hundreds of such groups attempting contact, participating roughly in the same manner, through our higher selves, which to me, can be called angelic, and is on even terms:) ...............sylvain..............

[transiten]

good morning

most mornings i wake up with a worried mind. i don't try to meditate or do yoga, i go directly to this forum to see if there's an "answer" to the threads i'm involved in (if i'm home that is) the english language still keep me from understanding the exact meaning sometimes, which of course can be frustrating, but yesterday and this morning i just felt such a relief just to have some kind of answer and contact, even if it's not "the absolute and final answer"......

as i've been telling in other threads i've been brainwashed by a meditationteacher and "lost" about 6 years of my life in total darkness, agony and despair. this is the first time i try to "believe" in a teaching together with other pple. (i also joined a course in mediumship after finding this website.) as a result, i'm overly critical and suspiscious and fear half of the time that this will also be a dead end.

as many of you have told i have noone close to me that i can discuss this with, except for one woman who lives far away, and the students and teachers in the mediumshipcourse have not come across the info on this site, have no deeper knowledge and understanding of synchronicity, astrology and ufology. i'm also in a smaller lifecrisis again, trying to break free from the either narrowminded or spititually confused persons i have all around me. (a reflection of myself:confused: :( ) though many of them are nice and kind pple i seldom feel the love that i feel when being alone with my dog and mother nature, or most of the time being on this forum.

but also it's strange that the only person i've seen "live" on this forum is david, even if only in videos and who also has told so much about himself, while most of the forummembers are anonymous and don't want to tell their age, gender and names, many being very open though with their lives......i wonder what would happen if we met in "real life"...why am i here with pple i cannot meet personally, just like i cannot f.i meet ra in 3d?

and all the same i'm so happy to have this forumcontact and of course scared of loosing it due to my own scepticism fueled by posts like karens, who i can truly identify with, but i try to develop the ability to live with the paradoxes even if i loose balance sometimes when i don't manage to reconcile the opposites, which is made real only by the grace of love acceptance and understanding......

thankyou silvanus and others for trying to "stretch out the questionmarks" as we say in sweden.:)

liliane transiten

[Silvanus Sanctus Germanus]

even if it's not "the absolute and final answer".....

hi liliane,

what would we do without mistery? because to me the answers are always in the questions. meaning we long for dreaming up questions. imagine yourself as the infinite creator exploring infinity searching for beyondness just to make sure.

maybe this might be one of the pitfalls, searching for an absolute truth from the loo. the deepest "truth" that resonates with me from the loo is the realisation of oneness and the radiating of presence of a loving consciousness permeating all. everything else is secondary. many of us feel the urge to share this presence and spread the love but find barriers and obstacles at every corner. i feel this is why we gather here in this forum, we feel the energy that is potentialy shared and long for ways to connect in the same way with ppls around us. again i wish to reiterate the loo in its distortion towards service to others, as long as we are present in every aspect of our existance, specialy in our interactions with other selves, this is the pinnacle of service to others. although a great way to spend time, sharing spiritual information is only secondary;) ..................sylvain.....................

[transiten]

hi

karen, i actually said i can totally identify with you, i was always the one asking questions in school and still can dig myself down to china to try to find an answer, if not the "final" one. i take full responsability for being on this forum and one of the great things about it is the possibility to do exactly what you did, and have some great answers. my first post was typically enough a questioning one, and more have followed.

sylvain, suppose i'm struggling with my eternal feeling of being "outcast", never meeting my soulmates and in a plutonic way desire total and instant transformation. but my saturn won't let me, so i'm practicing patience and once again, noone forced me or manipulated me into this forum, i did it all by free will;) and i'm still here it seems.

:) ny greetings from gothenburg sweden

[Silvanus Sanctus Germanus]

suppose i'm struggling with my eternal feeling of being "outcast", never meeting my soulmates and in a plutonic way desire total and instant transformation. but my saturn won't let me, so i'm practicing patience and once again, noone forced me or manipulated me into this forum, i did it all by free will;) and i'm still here it seems.

you are definately here:) , and in my eyes, the more we feel like outcasts the more we are "here";) , and the harder it becomes to connect with others on common grounds. except here of course,(just kidding). the moment we start feeling like the overall state of being on the whole planet has shifted towards the beautiful teachings of oneness, the emptiness inside will fill up and seperateness will start to fade.

i too beleive in instant transformation, personaly i beleive that i'm creating this void (being an outcast) voluntarily, anticipating the "filling", all the while feeling like the majority of souls will participate in this event only when the "shift" occurs. in a way, i beleive some souls that are ready now are patiently waiting the moment where they can assist others by adding to the momentum, and our spiritual quest is driving us to strengthen that potential to help other selves.

amazing all the similarities we share, i too asked way too many question my whole life, (according to who anyways?) i was put in the corner, out in the hallway or right beside the teacher, depending on their way of handling me. my teacher even closed me in with separators in 3rd grade. not a joke. my parents had no clue what to do with me, i aced practicaly all my classes without studying and that just added fuel to the fire, anyway hope i'm not adding too much fuel, just trying to be my-self:d .............sylvain...............

[inside-up]

some of these supposed 'contradictions' in the loo material seem to be due to simplification of some of its' concepts and/or outright misunderstanding. so allow me to briefly clairify a few of these concepts.

4d and 5d are composed of polarized entities only. 3d is the density of choice of polarity and is comprised of mostly non-polarized entities who have not, as yet, made the choice. however, 3d also contains a small subset of polarized entities who have made the choice.

the early stages of 6d are polarized, but at some point a choice is made toward unity of the polarities. this occurs because it becomes increasingly difficult for a 6d- to stay negative in the density of unity. so, at some point the 6d- shifts to 6d+. 4d is the density of love. 5d is the density of wisdom or light.

thus, there is some polarization in 3d and 6d, and only polarization in 4d and 5d. therefore, you will find positve and negative entities in all of these densities. the higher the density the higher the level of attainment or knowledge/experience of infinity. so a 6d- will be very wise having already attained a complete understanding of the density of wisdom or 5d.

love is just as neccessary for graduation of a 4d- as it is a 4d+, and ditto regarding wisdom for both polarities in 5d. the difference for the two polarities is how that love/light is used. is it used in service to self or in service to others? the positive polarity radiates love/light to other-selves, and the negative absorbs love/light for itself and uses it to control other-selves.

in 3d most entities will be experimenting with both polarities, and as they do, this will lead them toward making the choice. entities in 3d, including those who have polarized, will act in service to self as well as service to others. it's just a matter of degree and frequency depending on whether they have polarized, and if so, what the polarity of their choosing is.

also, each density in this octave has 2 distinct states: space/time and time/space. these are analogs of each other. space/time (our illusion) allows one to move through space in a time-line, where as time/space allows us to move through time as an analog to how we move in space from our perspective.

when we 'die' we go into time/space where we can review our previous incarnation among other things. this is the state i believe the bible refers to as "sleep" as it is similar to the dream state.

[jeremy6d]

so perhaps some unintended/undesired consequences have also emerged this time around. if so, what possible problems can you identify?

what a great topic. i would suggest that, since we are as prone to error as those whom we'd critique, that we simply remember that any analysis here is purely opinion; we don't have perfect knowledge of "who's doing it right" and "who's doing it wrong". our judgments on these matters actually reflect a lot about ourselves, i'd say, if we're willing to look at them honestly.

to my mind, the biggest problem with the law of one is the same problem we've had with spiritual teaching since time immemorial: the need to institutionalize what is ultimately a personal experience of the creator. i've seen the most harm done in the name of the law of one executed by people who wanted to achieve a monopoly over the interpretation of the material. those who want to build an organization around the law of one frequently find these organizations produce rather than quell conflict because they are artificial and contrived and take on an identity themselves, rather than being the effortless sum of individuals who are pursuing an end other than the perpetuation of the institution itself.

to me, one of the very, very key insights of the law of one is the spontaneous nature of the creator. the key to unity is the understanding that the creation is already perfect, and that our fears are tied to a misidentification of our true selves. when people try to promote or protect the law of one they inevitably build something around the teachings that is not essential. instead of making their own lives the propaganda, they erect an institution whose purpose is to promote the teachings, and dedicate their efforts to building that. this tends to take precedence over simply radiating love/light for two reasons: one, because it's more concrete and constrained a mission, and two, because its a welcome distraction from the self-awareness we could be pursuing.

carla, don, and jim didn't plan to initiate the ra contact, nor did they plan their fellowship to be anything special or cosmic. those who have been touched by the ra material are touched in a variety of ways particular to their own personalities and experiences. the whole point of the law of one is that what seems to be chaos is in fact order on the divine level. ra says that an emphasis on the outward popularity or impact of the material ("the counting") is shortsighted, because much is happening behind the scenes.

we tend to focus on the identity of the teachings as "the ra material" or "the law of one" instead of the essence behind the teachings which are not only eternal and universal but manifested in countless ways throughout our experience and history. this is partially because we want to homestead a greater, abstract, group identity for ourselves to enlarge our egos and give us a greater sense of self-worth, rather than go within and discover our identity and value on our own terms. inevitably, the goal of building an institution as a vehicle for the material ends up making the vehicle, rather than the cargo, the main attraction, and that's not helping. we advance the organization as a substitute for living the message; it's human nature.


as for me, i might surmise that a lot of people have accepted the ra material material as their higher authority, and thusly, have a hard time seeing the world outside the mental paradigm set up by ra. their minds have become boxed in and they have a hard time allowing information that may contradict ra. they have become sto robots, trying as hard as possible to serve others when if fact they are only ambitious to gain entry into sto 4d.

i think your former surmise is accurate; this is a common reaction to the law of one. however, i think this is a common response to any sort of universalist spiritual teaching, where an all-encompassing view of reality is laid out. people tend to accept this view root and branch and then try to build their lives around it. it's very difficult, if not impossible, to do this in a balanced manner because it substitutes an external truth for your own internal truths. call this a "fundamentalist" approach to the loo for lack of a better term.

however, in my experience people pursue the fundamentalist path for a limited period of time. it ends up becoming a source of guilt and judgment rather than what i believe it's supposed to be: a model (one among many) to be used in the pursuit of better self-understanding. my opinion is that the law of one describes a way of approaching an infinitely subtle and personal creation, and if you're not using it to learn about yourself, but only to program your own thoughts and actions, you're ignoring a big part of ra's message.

the fear of not ascending to 4d is probably the biggest hurdle to overcome. there is a sense in which the urgency of the law of one message is almost counterproductive, because in truth there is no urgency. you have as much time as you'd like to learn the lessons of third density and move on to fourth density. in fact, once i realized that i would not *want* to ascend without being ready, i found that i was that much more willing to look within for the sources of my actions and thoughts rather than sort of outwardly governing them after the fact. i also had much less fear because i could more fully internalize the idea that "all is well". i've reverted to having much more anxiety about the world than about my own soul - not sure if that's healthy, but there it is.


or else, they have determined they are 6d wanderer, and they lord their infinite wisdom over anybody who dares to question them.

this does happen with some people. but i'd say this happens in all universalist spiritual movements. this is a result of an imbalance within, not of the teaching itself. you see this in christianity, islam, scientology - any religion. i will say that the law of one has plenty of warning passages that you have to overlook in order to maintain this self-deception, but it certainly is possible to maintain it in a universe based on free will.

consider this passage from a course in miracles and its applicability. what is the ra material but another "course"?


this is a course in miracles. it is a required course. only the time you take it is voluntary. free will does not mean that you can establish the curriculum. it means only that you can elect what you want to take at a given time.

[jeremy6d]

one thing about the ra material which confuses me is the statement about how they do not concern themselves with the nature of the earth changes.

there are a couple of ways to understand this to my mind. one, ra do not wish to participate in the human drama that is effecting, or being affected by, the earth changes. two, ra is more focused on the spiritual dynamics underlying these outward phenomena because that is the true significance and source of them.


obviously, it makes a big difference whether or not humanity perceives the earth changes as self-inflicted (as in the case of runaway anthropogenic global warming) or induced by an external agency (as in the case of the passage of nibiru). in the first case, such earth changes foster an awareness about how one's individual actions influence the health of the surrounding environment, but in the second case one is left to believe that humans have absolutely no control over their own destiny so they might as well pollute to high heaven. the first scenario fosters action, accountability and self-reflection while the second case leads to apathy, fear and surrendering one's power to a higher authority.

i'm not certain that's necessarily true, though i do see your point. accepting the first interpretation could be a way for people to immerse themselves in politics as an alternative to better understand themselves and thereby better understanding their roles on this planet. they begin thinking that the solutions are "out there" rather than within. accepting the second interpretation could lead one to go within because there is no outwardly actionable agenda, which in my opinion is an unambiguous good. from going within, one could begin to be a genuine help to the world in the more significant, spiritual sense.

i don't think there are necessary reactions to any approach to global warming, but that a variety of reactions will manifest based on the variety of personalities. i do think that it's important to achieve a stable and integrated sense of oneself in order to understand the scope of what one has control over. ultimately, the only good we can effect is that which is within our power. misunderstanding this leads to distortions in the realms of personality, politics, economics, etc.


i understand that runaway climate change caused by human activity is an event that is larger than one person can influence through their individual actions, however i believe the idea of agw is symbolic of the truth that humans control their own destiny through the action of free-will.

to a certain extent i agree with this. but as far as third density, there is effectively no such thing as "humans" as a unified entity. in our density, there is only individuals who have will, make decisions, etc. i think the real lessons come about by pondering the paradox of individual responsibility for group actions; how an individual's thoughts and actions operate within the illusion to reinforce it rather than resisting it. it's a paradox i struggle with all the time.

also, i'd probably downplay the significance of the symbolism. symbols function by their interpretation, and it is your interpretation of the symbology that makes it useful. if others aren't interpreting it this way, then it is accordingly *not* useful to them. it's fine to have an interpretative approach to human events - part of making sense of them is seeing the larger trends at work. just be careful of universalizing your insight; it is but one. we tend to build up our personal insights into monsters that end up infringing on others free will.


i remember ra saying that the love that you radiate into the world is more important than any principles of right livelihood that you may advocate. i essentially agree with this. however, the entire environmental movement is really based upon love as in respecting and honoring all forms of consciousness on this planet, and recognizing our interdependence with these other consciousnesses. if we don't sustain those lower life forms, they won't sustain us. a single-minded focus on developing human consciousness without recognizing the whole of consciousness results in death.

ah, yes, i agree: much of the environmental movement springs out of a love for the planet. but the nazi movement (which was actually a pretty radically environmental political organization) sprung out of love, too. so did the communist movement, the neoconservative movement, etc. almost all powerful movements that end up seeking control over others arise from a deep, deep love and concern. what matters is whether there is fear in there that turns the power of love to the need to control.

i think there is an environmentalism that sees the answer in decentralizing and devolving power and control to localities, empowering people to engage in meaningful lives and careers, and de-emphasizing many of the myths about technology and progress that drive much of our disinterest in matters ecological and natural. like many problems, most of our environmental woes come from a disconnect with reality; localism implies a scale of management that is more accessible to people, because it emphasizes a connection with the local environment, ecology, population, history, etc. as one radical environmentalist says, it's profane that we know more about the personal lives of celebrities than the local plants and animals around us. this distraction isn't natural - it's the result of huge expenditures of effort, wealth, and energy to centralize decision making and production.

environmental decentralism is not pursued by al gore or the sierra club, and i wouldn't expect them to. and i think to the extent that much of the talk about agw arises from those who would seek to impose new controls on us and further remove decisions from our direct purview, they are missing the point: industrial capitalism didn't just happen - it was, and continues to be, subsidized and stabilized by the government. instead of proposing new measures of control and regimentation, why not remove the subsidies and privileges that make industrial capitalism possible in the first place?

it has been demonstrated that american corporations consume a level of corporate welfare that dwarfs the profits they generate by a factor of five. yet the latest proposals for environmental reform just have us shoveling more public money at the economic structures that caused the problem in the first place! al gore doesn't like to talk about this, because to the same extent that industrial capitalism and its politicians benefit from environmental exploitation, they also benefit from the political exploitation of the people. i believe that environmental justice and political liberation are largely two sides of the same coin, and it is only our fear that causes us to clamp down.


i'm guessing ra would concur with the above statement. to co's* credit, ra was wise not to give people prescriptions for how to live their life as this would certainly infringe on free will and create an unnecessary degree of authority.

i wouldn't presume to speak for ra, but i think i've offered an alternative view, at least.

[soup]

...so perhaps some unintended/undesired consequences have also emerged this time around. if so, what possible problems can you identify?...

apparently there's some sort of efficiency figure attributed to communication. that is, some husbands may only hear 10% of what their wives speak to them, sadly. people don't seem to communicate well.

so related to the ra materials, there seems such possible problem that whatever ra was trying to express, they were'nt 100% efficient at communicating it and likewise, the readers of the ra materials may not be 100% efficient at assimilating what ra had attempted to communicate.

as such, it seems that things can get misconstrued and misunderstood in some way which may cause confusion. of course, confusion may or may not be a pitfall, depending upon one's perspective...


soup

[conundrum]

yeah you are onto some thing there soup, heres where i am confused the orion group are depicted as being negative beings which is ok because in the bigger picture or scheme of things it doesn't really matter because at the end of the day we are all one darkness is just another form of light but with the distortion of being separate or isolated or being some thing other than light.

but in the same regard so is love light as when free will came about there was a split between the two or at least a perception of a split, so the meaning i get from this is that some how we need to take the two lights light/dark and to some how merge the two lights back together so they reform the original energy before free will came about which would be the original source of both before the split .

but heres the biggest confusion both sides want us humans to be either positive or negative which causes a division inside ourselves not to mention much pain and suffering which we have been designed to feel as well as peace and happiness on the flip side, but either way we are going to die.

so in biblical terms we get the choice of being hot or cold as luke warm which would be balanced will be spewed from the mouth of the creator or whom or what ever wrote the bible like vomit.

another thing that messes with my head is this [please email for url]

yet in the project camelot video 4 dw says that people that have a ufo encounter
have mostly been negative as the positive ufo generally stay out of sight so not to
break the law of illusion or free will.

so there you have it we are like characters in a sort of holographic video game that higher beings from both sides are roasting on a camp fire like a battery bred chook while they sit around laughing feeding off our negativity or positivity.

just imagine what a battery bred chook would do if it found out or comprehended
why it was here and what was going to become of it... then some one gave it technology to build a plasma canon or a nuclear weapon.

2012 empty space one smoking plasma canon and one satisfied chook :cool:

[Keith]

consider that all is one. thus all is (part of) the creator. positive and negative are just 2 terms used to describe the path that can be taken to return. the positive path being that which recognises more the nature of the creator. thus it is not a case of duality like hot and cold, but more like less hot and more hot, though at higher densities, 6th density would be something like being hot and cold at once, 7th,8th density would be neither.

the negative beings would want you to be negative but the positive being wishes that you realise what has always being there.

it is true that in the bigger picture it doesn't matter whether a group is seem as negative or positive. but we being 3d being, would/might not be clever/experienced enough to see through the tricks of a negative group. it helps that the polarity of the group is pointed out, so that we would be cautious when we realised we are dealing with them. realising that good and bad doesn't matter in the big picture doesn't mean that you would go around and do bad things to people.

keith

[soup]

when i consider the creative principle, i consider the elements that support the creative principle.

one of the elements seems that of abundance or else an attitude of abundance, i.e. fertile mothers seem well fed. of course this may be applied on many levels, that of resources, that of time, that of desire.

so in order to better align oneself with the creative principle, in order to better manifest as creator in our lives, it seems we neccessarily need to create a sense of abundance. here, we may need to "give up" other inferior things as trade off to whatever creation we devote ourselves to...

dare i say, we may need to make peace with the "destructive" principle first in order to make room for our creativity?


soup

[soup]

...if so, what possible problems can you identify?
...


this may relate to the idea of catalyst - that each person makes use to of the catalyst available to them to differing degrees of efficiency. an attitude of "boxing oneself in" may act as unneccessary limitation which on one hand limits their catalyst efficiency, though on the other hand may free them to seek in ways which they may not otherwise be able to (i.e. as distracted by contending with so much catalyst.) as such, problems of trade off in choice may result not so different from how the loo is sometimes described: always and ever the same.


soup